COLLECTIVE MADNESS


“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."

Sunday, September 10, 2006

The Last Moments of Hope


While these Americans were still clinging to hope, I was in my Landcruiser on my way to my office in San Jose. The sky in Costa Rica was as blue as it was in New York City. My day was going to end with expats in a bar named after Che Gueverra. With fellow Americans and universally sympathetic Europeans and Canadians, we speculated as to what would happen in the future. For the Americans and others hanging from the windows of the doomed towers, their day never ended. Their bodies and future would fall to dust in the streets of Manhattan. Where are we five years later and where are we going?

340 comments:

  1. On the eve of a catastrophic day rivalling Dec 7th, our hearts are with those who perished and their loved ones left forever changed by the horros of the event and the ongoing replay.
    As agonizing as those replays are they MUST be done. Every nightly news broardcast should begin with the horror of planes crashing into the WTC. These were not ill conceived acts but premediated. Another link in a war we have yet to fully acknowledge in this country. Perhaps a montage of blowup US Embassies, assaulted cruise ships, airport lobby and nightclub massacres, Naval ships assaulted, Marine Barracks bombed, to name but a few would strenghten our resolve to crush this evil before a nuclear nightmare is added to the canvas.
    No one else can do it. It has fallen to us at this time and place to be the Janos Hunyadi or Charles Martel of the day. Freedom,they will see, is more than an ethereal concept but a moral duty to mankind. Fly the flag of freedom tomorrow and be proud we have defended it so long.

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  2. "The Last Moments of Hope"

    The caption and the photo of poor souls breathing their last are almost too much to think about.

    Those are sad words, 2164, and they lead me to remember the months following 9/11 which may have been the "last moments of hope" for American unity. The short few weeks when Old Glory waved from every block and nearly every building. The short respite from partisan politics and global anti-Americanism.

    Those were the last moments of hope for the rest of us.

    God help us all.

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  3. I think God likes America, Whit. We've always gotten help when we "Really" needed it, I don't think this time will be an exception.

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  4. Over at Belmont, Wretchard post a melancholy note on our current dismal state of world affairs.

    CBS this morning showed the peaceful countryside with ponds and wildlife around the crash site of Flight 93. It was beautifully serene and peaceful.

    There were no humans anywhere to be seen.

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  5. By the way, has anybody noticed how quiet it's been in Baghdad for the last four or five days?

    Saving up for 9-11?

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  6. Like someone said, "Before you start getting all melancholy, you might want to look at it from the other side of the board.

    The Taliban is getting their ass Pounded by the Canadians in Afghanistan, the Israelis just cut Hezbollah to shreds in S Lebanon, Nasrallah is in hiding, Osama, if he's alive, is holed up in a cave somewhere and can't even do video, the Iraqi Army really is getting better, and is taking over more and more of the country, and an "Unafraid" Bushie is sizing up Iran's Nuclear Sites for a new set of curtains.

    I like our view of the terrain, better.

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  7. AND, Danish troops are "rediscovering" their Viking Blood, and are Demanding to be sent to Afghanistan.


    Did I mention that part about knocking down an ICBM in full "attack" mode?

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  8. If the Mohammedans had an ICBM, rufus, that'd be great news. As it stands it is just another card in a deck that we do not use.

    Other than the Pakistani the Mohammedans do not have a payload of note to place upon their nonexistant ICBMs.

    The Iraqi Army is improving, no doubt about that, their loyalty though is not to US. Their troops not having been indoctrinated by exposure to US. Instead they have been segregated from the Americans. re: Camp Tanji.

    This type of disrespect does not engender admiration or respect of US by the Iraqi.

    habu still waits on the moon's phases, knowing in his heart that Mr Bush will act, decisively.
    While the Iranians say that they "just may" suspend enrichment for a month or two.
    Jaw Jaw.

    Without the proper permission papers Mr Bush will not act, IMO.
    There is no precendent in his past for it.

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  9. Other than Pakistan?

    That's an awful big "Other," Brother.

    And, it does give us some protection on our "Western" Flank.

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  10. Look, Iraq ain't going to be "Virginia," but it won't be "Saddam Hussein with Nukes," either.

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  11. That is true, rufus, and I'm certainly glad that the System is functional.
    It does not begin to solve our core challenges. That will require institutional change on the part of the Federals.
    Changes that are not likely to occur any time soon, regardless of Elections or the continued occuppation of Iraq.

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  12. No Precedent?

    Tell that to Saddam Hussein, and Mullah Omar.

    Oh, wait, Mullah Omar might be kind of difficult to find. Another present-day "Cave-Dweller."

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  13. We'll muddle through, Rat; we, always, do.

    BTW, "The Path to 9-11" is getting Big Reviews in New Zealand, and Australi where it's already aired.

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  14. Mr Bush had major public support for military action in Afghanistan, That public support has drained away. The Military did not even want to deploy to Afghanistan in force, General Franks and the Tora Bora action stands in evidence.
    Mr Bush needed a permission slip from the UN for Iraq. He got it in Resolution 1441.
    Look to the Authorization for use of Force in Iraq for proof. We were going to Iraq to enforce UN Resolutions.
    There are no such Resolutions in regard Iran. And there will not be.
    The Chinese and Russians will see to that.

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  15. Muddle into another War?
    With a country three times the size of Iraq.

    That, my friend, is not the "way".

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  16. I agree with Rufus' optimistic assessment of where we are and Rat's assessment of where we're going.

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  17. Like I said, "We're not talking Virginia, here."

    Har de Har, Har!

    You ya like "Them Apples," Assholes?

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  18. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  19. Some Good News?

    Army to hit 2006 recruit goal
    "We will make our 80,000 mission (for new recruits) for the fiscal year," said Maj. Gen. Sean Byrne, the Army's director of personnel management. Fiscal 2006 ends on September 30.
    But some defense experts argued the Army, which provides the bulk of ground forces in Iraq, had been able to make its goal only by taking lower-quality volunteers who previously might have been rejected.
    "The real question is: how low are we willing to let the quality of the Army decline while we continue in this war?" asked Lawrence Korb, assistant secretary of defense in charge of manpower issues under former President Ronald Reagan.


    Well, I guess we can tolerate older recruits and more tattoos.

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  20. No Wonder it's been "Quieter" in Baghdad. New Rules!

    H/T Little Green Footballs

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  21. From Rufus' link:

    "The Americans were better than the Iraqis. They treated us better," said Khalid Alaani, who was held on suspicion of involvement in Sunni terrorism.

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  22. Bravo!

    News of the executions was made public by Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, when he attended a ceremony to mark the transfer of control of Iraq's military from the United States to the recently elected government.

    "This is the message I have for the terrorists," he said of the hanged prisoners, "we will see that you get great punishment wherever you are. There is nothing for you but prison and punishment."

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  23. Looks like Mr Maliki is going to take his shot at subduing the Insurgency.

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  24. Ahh, That Just Makes My Heart Sing!

    Tra la la, Tra la la, la la

    What a "Wonderful" Morning!

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  25. I love this part:

    "Someone was shouting 'Please help us, we want the human rights officers, we want the Americans to come back'," he said.


    Heh, Heh, Heh

    He wants the "human rights officers!"

    Ha, ha! Nouri's got your "human rights officers," assholes - swinging right between his legs. Enjoy!

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  26. Although no one can know how many Muslims illegally have slipped into the US from Canada and Mexico,

    “In 2005, more people from Muslim countries became legal permanent United States residents — nearly 96,000 — than in any year in the previous two decades.”

    “Up to six million Muslims live in the United States…[T]he Census Bureau and the Department of Homeland Security do not track religion…”

    “[S]tarting in 2004, the numbers rebounded…The tally of people coming to live in the United States…[from] Muslim countries rose by 20 percent…”

    “The uptick was also notable among foreigners with nonimmigrant visas. More than 55,000 Indonesians, for instance, were issued those visas last year, compared with roughly 36,000 in 2002.”

    More Muslims Arrive in U.S., After 9/11 Dip

    http://www.nytimes.com/
    2006/09/10/nyregion/
    10muslims.html?ei=5065&en=a8a8128eac
    7a167d&ex=
    1158465600&partner=
    MYWAY&
    pagewanted=print

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  27. You know, if I liked to type more, and I was better at it, and if it wasn't Sunday afternoon, and if I was the least bit "Intellectually" bent I might want to write a bit about how the "Lack" of liberal "Welfare" rules has helped us, to some extent, "assimilate" our Muslim population.

    Let's face it, if they want to stay in the "Good Old U.S." they pretty much have to "make a living." It looks to me like they don't have quite as much time to hang around the Mosque, and get in trouble. It's a little different in Europe, I hear.

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  28. Certainly, being opposed to the Patriot Act proves assimilation with the Dems and Senator Hagel. The chances of successfully assimilating our new Muslim neighbors into the democratic dream and Americanism is just about the same as our success in Iraq, I think.

    "Yet this period also produced something strikingly positive, in the eyes of many Muslims: they began to mobilize politically and socially. Across the country, grass-roots groups expanded to educate Muslims on civil rights, register them to vote and lobby against new federal policies such as the Patriot Act."

    “There was the option of becoming introverted or extroverted,” said Agha Saeed, national chairman of the American Muslim Task Force on Civil Rights and Elections, an umbrella organization in Newark, Calif. “We became extroverted.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/
    2006/09/10/nyregion/
    10muslims.html?hp&ex=
    1157947200&en=
    ab8aedc990642d4f&ei=
    5094&partner=homepage

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  29. Well, I didn't say it was going to be "perfect," but I still think we're a "little" better insulated, with our strong "free enterprise" system than, say, France, or the U.K. is.

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  30. Access to the part of the prison containing terrorism suspects was denied, but from that block came the sound of screaming. The screaming continued for a long time.

    from the Telegraph story.

    Wetchard's anti-torture crowd need to check up on this. They might be making them wear "panties on their head!

    Haw, haw, haw

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  31. Tigerhawk has a really good post up ruminating on the "Path to 9-11," and the Clintonistas.

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  32. When "duece" first join our merry band of posters he was in favor of isolating the "West" from the Mohammedans.
    While that would be difficult, removing those Mohammedans from the US, we could have limited the further influx of the Mohammedans into our Society.

    Instead we allow ever greater numbers of them into the Country.

    This is not a case of BDS or some Liberal moonbat conspiracy theory, but a reality. Why do we allow it?
    Is it the Skull & Bones policy position?

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  33. This Martin Amis piece has been referred to here and there already--I'm just adding my two centavos.

    It's a long piece, and the Engishman's take on GWB's body language I could do without (right, GWB is a "provincial"), but it is a MOST excellent think-piece.

    I've never seen Islamism taken down quite so utterly.

    And I agree that the solution is in awakening Muslim women (yeah,"easy!").

    But, take it from me, this is a true 'must read'.

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  34. rufus said:

    Wetchard's anti-torture crowd need to check up on this. They might be making them wear "panties on their head!

    I think under this new management, instead of letting dogs just bark at the prisoners they're letting the dogs tear off a piece of them. Fuck 'em. This is a premonition of what will happen to the Euroweenies when they get under Sharia management. "We want the Americans back!" Pshhh.

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  35. Access to the part of the prison containing terrorism suspects was denied, but from that block came the sound of screaming. The screaming continued for a long time.


    Hmm, has anyone seen "Possumtater," recently? Maybe, Habu was confused. It wasn't Gitmo; it was Abu Ghraib?

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  36. Speaking of the administration’s sense of priorities and sensitivity:

    Huge Shipment of Hatred Headed for U.S.

    http://clarityandresolve.com/

    “15,000 young peaceful religionists raised on the most virulently anti-infidel form of Islam are about to be sent to our universities by the Saudi government.”

    “Thousands of students from Saudi Arabia are enrolling on college campuses across the United States this semester under a new educational exchange program brokered by President Bush and Saudi King Abdullah.”

    “The U.S. State Department sees the exchange as a way to build ties with future Saudi leaders and young scholars…”

    “Meanwhile back in Muhammadland, there's still a bit to worry about regarding the curriculum that these kids are graduating from. ‘Saudi schoolbooks still in dispute five years after 9/11.’”

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  37. Onliest thing I can figure, Allen, is that KSA is paying top dollah to our universities, and that is not without its influence within revolving door-land.

    Any chance those students will take an appreciation for western ways, back to Araby wif 'em?

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  38. buddy larsen,

    re: top dollar

    Somewhere I saw the figure $31,000 per student at the University of Kansas. Also, if memory serves, the costs will be at the out-of-state rates across the board. Whether that was per semester or per year, I do not recall.

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  39. Maybe, it's part of a CIA Recruitment drive.

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  40. buddy larsen,

    re: western ways

    Only our weaknesses, if history is any indicator.

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  41. These students are not "visa expressed." This doesn't really worry me too much. The Saudis aren't too happy with the results of their Jihadi-producing madrassas.

    I think the Royal Family is just trying to educate it's younger generation before the oil runs out.

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  42. 2164th,

    Alas, the Club is no more. Only the Belmont. But I can't say as I blame the Cat.

    Thanks for setting up the refuge.

    ******

    With the 15 Big Ones to be tapped off Louisiana, I guess we can all agree that old Tom Jefferson finally got his money's worth? (Or would that be expecting too much?)

    ******

    Terri@BraveNewWorld,

    The Pygmy is the short one. Yao is the tall one, in case you can't tell the difference from the textbook galleys.

    - Db2m

    (I don't know who that DB2 guy is, but hey, how many Jim Smiths are there?)

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  43. rufus,

    re: CIA outreach

    Nothing these days would surprise. If things get any more confusing, I'll have to get a giant cork punch board to keep track of past-present-future enemies-allies - where, when, what, and how.

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  44. Buddy, I finished the first half of your "must read." I'm gonna have to "do lunch" before I can do part two.

    I, almost, quit him after the "Mohammed was a Great Man" line, but I trudged on. Wordy bastard, ain't he?

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  45. db2m,

    re: Belmont

    Today, I decided to quit checking. Maybe we should appoint a dedicated checker to keep the hits counter down.

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  46. rufus, wordy for shore. but, solid, solid observation. imho, anyhoo.

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  47. Greeley, Colorado did not have much positive impact on that fella, Sayyid Qutb, you had us read about, buddy.
    To much "love" for him to assimulate.
    M. Atta, he was educated here in the "West" was he not?
    Familiarity breeds contempt, not respect, or so the "old saying" goes.
    There are truisms in "old sayings", are there not?

    "... For it was in Greeley, Colorado, in 1949, that Islamism, as we now know it, was decisively shaped. ...
    ... the result has been a kind of rolling genocide, and the figure is perhaps two million. And it all goes back to Greeley, Colorado, and to Sayyid Qutb. ..."


    Out of 15,000 how many Sayyid Qutb clones will there be, even Osama would have qualified for a Visa, when he was 19.
    From Iran the US will be paying $25,000 each to bring 200 cross cultural assimulants to US. These folk, language teachers will be from the recently purged of "western influence" teacher pool of Iran.

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  48. The remarks from Mr Snow, about the US no longer "Staying the Course" seem true enough.

    The new Course is no improvement, in fact it is, seemingly, worse. IMO

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  49. Sorta like calling all bets in a poker hand without even knowing your hole card, isn't it.

    Was the town named for Horace Greeley, Civil War era newspaperman & politician, remembered for "Go West, Young Man, Go West!"?

    Fans of odd connections will find many in this wiki on Greeley.

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  50. Buddy, I particularly liked the part where Lincoln "outsmarted" him by putting him on the "peace" commission, knowing full well the Confederates would reject it.

    Is that kind of like putting the Euro's in charge of "negotiating" with the Mullahs?

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  51. buddy larsen,

    re: Amis essay

    Great read! Thanks.

    How can it be doubted that, if after 14 centuries Islam has taken the typical current iteration, a "Long War" will make no difference, with the presumptive status quo ante.

    I frequently read of the need for an Islamic reformation, as if Luther's was somehow liberal. Well, Islam had a recent Luther: OBL. What Islam needs is a Copernicus or Galileo.

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  52. By January, U.S. government officials say the program will expand to 15,000, which means Saudi Arabia will send more foreign students to the U.S. than Mexico or Turkey. As funding for the scholarship program expands, those numbers are likely to grow.

    College administrators say common misperceptions about the oil-rich nation make it crucial to create a tolerant environment for Arab and Muslim students, who have been singled out for scrutiny since the Sept. 11 attacks five years ago


    Haven't we learned already, that many Muslim youths have difficulty adjusting to life outside the Ummah. And that their response to the cultural cognitive dissonance is often involves jihad against the host country. London train bombings, anyone? IIRC, many of the jihadis who have carried out suicide attacks against the West (including some of the 9/11 cell) were educated in western univerisities. I'm recalling a cell in Hamburg Germany and one Islamist who was at UNC. This alone should suggest caution at inviting them in by the thousands. The math is simple. If 1% of the students are Radical Islamists, we will soon have 150 true believers operating in the US. If only 1 in 1000 are jihadist, we have a cell of 15. Lord what fools these (American) mortals be.

    Regarding the Belmont Club sans comments, my impression was that 2164th was starting this blog as a place to discuss Belmont Club posts without limits on comments - a place like I thought was intended by The Belmont Lounge which Wretchard set-up years ago but which was never used. Wretchard continues to post gem after gem. They are begging for comments

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  53. Lots of modern-sounding positions and ploys. A century-and-a-half are nothing, really. He'd be a pretzel-Dem today, I guess, in that he was all for the war in 1862 but by the time of the 1864 elections, was calling for terms with the South.

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  54. I am reading the Amis epic. Did not agree with a word he said for the first eight or nine paragraphs. After that, we came to an understanding and it's a compelling read.

    So far, everything he has written can be summed up in four words, "These f-ers are crazy!"

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  55. I'm sorry, Greeley, I meant. thread zipped by--

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  56. "These f-ers are crazy!" and, they're scared to death of losing control of the women.

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  57. StoutFellow:

    I agree, Richard Fernandez is magic with the pen. He should be syndicated. He could easily turn out three excellent columns a week.

    Feel free to comment on his columns here at the Elephant Bar.

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  58. whit,

    re: "These f-ers are crazy!"

    The Islamists or the western elites playing at pacification and assimilation?

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  59. whit,
    Since this time, yesterday, about 8,000 hits have been made at the BC. Almost 250,000 per month.
    He is syndicated, at PJ.
    It is not the Elephant Bar patrons checking back that are driving those kind of numbers.
    It is really a new age, and Mr Fernandez is in the vanguard.

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  60. Buddy: 6:11

    I don't think its fear of losing their women so much as fear of spending eternity in hell.

    Having no assurance of salvation, they live each day in doubt and fear. Other than martydom, they have no guarantee.

    They have a well-grounded fear of the seductive west which has cornered them like wild beasts and like wild beasts they fight.

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  61. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  62. Rat:

    Those are impressive numbers. Any idea about how well it pays?

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  63. By the way, Deuce, the first thing you must do is set up a "tip jar."

    All regular commenters should contribute some nominal amount. We are using this as a Prime Source of entertainment, and you are paying for it.

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  64. We get the same rate as "Sex in the City", $45 per thousand, for our print & Inet work.

    PJ most likely has a similar click through fee for those ads.
    Google ends up charging about a dollar a hit, more of less, from my limited experiments with goggle ads.
    PJ by pooling a number of blog sites can get a large enough base to make the sales efforts worth while.

    So at the "Sex in the City" rate, a high regular TV rate, the click through would get you fortyfive cents. More than that and you're really paying or getting a substantial premium.

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  65. Blogger, by offering the format for free, really makes for an interesting platform.
    There are no production or printing costs. Just sales expense.

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  66. The Elephant Bar at the The Old Incorrigibles Club.

    Mm-hmm.

    Go read Westhawk.

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  67. evening sept 10th.. wife arrived home in her nice american airlines flight attendant uniform, from washington dc., not to long ago she traded in her twa international one for AA

    sept 11 9:00 ish.. we watched planes hit and just sat stunned..

    10:00 walked across the street to my next door neighbor and we started speaking, I stated welcome to my world.

    the sites of those innocent people falling/jumping off the twin towers had instantly ripped off the veneer I had been using as polite cover for the previous decades when talking about islamic murderers. TWA, Israel, Jewish Community Center attacks, 1st trade center attacks, etc all of this came to a boil, and now I dont care who i offend..

    we are at war with islamic facists, the bastard sons of hitler. Only the arab moslems did not sign a surrender after ww2.... from nasser and arab nationalism to arafatism to wahabbism to persian messiah bullshit... it's all the same shit and it stinks.

    i could list the 40 different groups that all are actually "the party of allah" but it dont matter, recently the senate came out and stated that iraq did not have Al Qaeda links, however now the spin doctors are pushing that limited statement.

    iraq had supported palestinian suicide bombers, period, that is enough.

    but back to the victims of islamic terror, 10's of thousands of moslems have been murdered by these bastards, thousands of americans, thousand of israelis, thousands of africans... and many more...

    let us not forget the images that our country has censored so completely. we should not seek to publish gruesome photos to stir up passions, however we should not forget the enemy that in which we deal.

    as I have said for many decades, never again, i shall lend it to my nation as well...

    never again

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  68. All regular commenters should contribute some nominal amount. We are using this as a Prime Source of entertainment, and you are paying for it.

    In my case that would be sort of like going, ::SMACK:: "Thank You Sir May I Have Another?" ::SMACK:: "Thank You Sir May I Have Another?"...lather, rinse, repeat.

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  69. desert rat said:

    Since this time, yesterday, about 8,000 hits have been made at the BC. Almost 250,000 per month. He is syndicated, at PJ. It is not the Elephant Bar patrons checking back that are driving those kind of numbers.

    I am really tempted to shout FUCK THAT SELLOUT! Wretchard's commentary alone wasn't the selling point of the Belmont Club for me at all, it was the followups from a wide variety of Clubbers.

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  70. I know, Rat. I checked in again today at Westhawk to read the comments.

    It was a good post. It brought to my mind 2164th's Silent and Dark proposal, of which I am a fan. Can't be adopted til Iraq is done, though.

    We shall see.

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  71. Cool down, there, teresita. He's been working hard on that site for years and years. Give him some breathing room. He gave all of us, for a long long time, a great place to jaw jaw. Don't be an ingrate--it's the least attractive of all the minor vices.

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  72. Well said, Buddy. That's my thought, also.

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  73. I was sorry to read (unless I misunderstood-amated) that Wretchard is closing BC to input from commentators.
    DR and a bunch of you folks have been with him a lot longer than I have and it must be like losing an old friend. I wish him well and prosperity with it.
    He will need access to "people who know things" and then I think he'll be fine. Anyway the marketplace will decide. All I can say is it's crowded out there with good commentary and if talent is the arbiter in this market then I think he has winner written all over himself.
    Best of luck old chap,
    Habu

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  74. 'taint far, 'taint far a-taul..Mzta Habu reads me Mzda Wretchard wurds eve'r day. din he try he best ta 'splain what iz means..din i sez di an dat an sooon Habu grabs my wurds an putz 'em on da board...i'z real'e beens try'n ta get Mzta Wretchard to 'dopt me, cause sometimes habu don't shower rit af'ta a work'in out..but i recuns i be stick'n wit him ..sometime he let me ride in da truck! envy's da hounds bad time but i hoots it up....anyways gud luck Mzta Wretchard sur.

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  75. Well, I likes dat ridin in de bed o de truck wit de dawgs, too, me.

    Hats off to ABC for "The show". It was really good. Second half tomorrow night. I honestly don't know why the Clintonistas went so berserk over it. Now they look like a buncha damn fools all over again.

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  76. I seem to be too emotionally drained to write anything. Bush's decision to give his speech right in the middle of it tomorrow night might turn out to be brilliant or dumb. I don't know. We'll see.

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  77. I'll tell you what gets to me. that picture at the top of this post. I zoomed it up and you can see individual human beings in those windows. It's really just to much to contemplate. There is nothing for it but blind anger.

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  78. Wretchard is a gifted writer and, most strikingly, a humane and sensitive individual. Unsurprisingly, comments at BC were, save at their degenerative worst, far and away better than at other comment-heavy PJ or simply Right sites.

    I've sometimes felt sorry for him, however - heavily invested in a vision, and a message, that will not survive.

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  79. Buddy,
    If you google for pictures of the WTC on 9-11 there are many that will make you cry

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  80. ...you know what makes this thing go up? funding makes this thing go up...no bucks, no Buck Rogers.....

    Movie "The Right Stuff"

    Now Richard will find out as the market makes it's choice.

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  81. It would be unsporting of him however to not let those who contributed to his success know how and why he came to his decision.
    One does not build a success alone. Good taste dictates a reason be given.

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  82. Trish, do you mean 'hard humanism' won't survive? Jeez, girl. We not in that bad a shape.

    Anon, look at this. Well, maybe don't.

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  83. By the way, does anyone know Richard personally, or is it simply through his writing we elevate him to such august heights?

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  84. Anon, a year or two ago he shared--under some good-natured pressure to do so--some personal info, via a blog post. It'll be in the archives--tho I can't recall the title. Maybe someone can. Good dude, tho. Filipino, bootstrapped himself thru Harvard, worked for the Phillipine Gov't out in the boonies, I get the impression in the anti-communism effort. In Australia now, raising a young family. The couple who run Gates of Vienna, Baron Bodissey & Dymphna, have collaborated with him some, and know him 'internet' well. All that is IIRC.

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  85. "Hard humanism," Buddy? I got that beat: Muscular-But-Soft-Headed-
    International-Interventional-
    Transformative-Progressivism.

    They don't call Iraq a One-Off for nothin'.

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  86. Trish, I was following along the line of individual attitudes. The combination of making no excuses whatever for the bad guys, on the basis of cold outrage over their effect on plain old ordinary people the world over.

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  87. Of course without policy, that's just a mouthful of platitudinous jellybeans.

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  88. Albert Heim, would say, from personal experience, and study, that the falling man is feeling fine.

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  89. Heim, the glaciologist?

    Say, how'd yer lips get puffy, Puffy Lips?

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  90. Then I took up English riding. All that posting. Posting,funny,like on here.

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  91. Then they're not puffy, they're just "big".

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  92. re sadness & 911, this Peggy Noonan meditation on all those last phone calls is too real. What people said. Kinda makes ya feel good about humanity. The illo is great, little cellphones flying around like angels, while a broken heart is two ears, hearing those last messages. A novelist wouldn't dare make up stuff like that.

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  93. AS policy, Buddy, it hasn't fared much better.

    The admin took on - at the last minute - with enormous confidence and little thought, a lavish government demonstration project of democratic transormation in Iraq. That demonstration project, wildy oversold, will end bankrupt.

    But earlier conceptions of the GWOT still depend on it. Acutely.

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  94. Some ways to go yet, Trish. Book is still open.

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  95. whit said...
    I am reading the Amis epic. Did not agree with a word he said for the first eight or nine paragraphs. After that, we came to an understanding and it's a compelling read.

    So far, everything he has written can be summed up in four words, "These f-ers are crazy!"

    6:09:35 PM

    I read it as well.

    I came to the same conclusion back in 1990 after reading Clavell's "Whirlwind"

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  96. Buddy Larsen: 1:35 to 1:41

    Exchange with Puffy_Lips.

    WTH?

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  97. The assassination yesterday of the Gov of Paktia Province...really bad news.

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  98. bobalharb said:

    Albert Heim, would say, from personal experience, and study, that the falling man is feeling fine.

    I prefer to view humans as risen apes, not fallen angels.

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  99. R.I.P.

    Puffy_ Lips was a ruse.

    Her blow up valve broke and she fle around the room like atoy balloon.

    She is vapor

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  100. Five years later, where are we?

    It's as good a day as any to read - or re-read, as the case may be - Jeff Record's "Bounding the Global War on Terrorism." Avail. still, I believe, at the War College website.

    Had we called it, conceived of it, as The War on al Qaeda to begin with and proceeded from there, we'd be in better shape.

    We required focus and purchased instead disarray and dissolution.

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  101. Writing under simple byline “9/11” Michael Ledeen is livid as he recalls the vivacious Barbara Olsen, and so should we all.

    http://politicscentral.com/
    2006/09/10/911.php

    “There are many who are saying that we have lost that anger… But many of our opposition leaders, journalists, broadcasters, and editors, and, apparently, the overwhelming majority of the professoriate, clearly have… because they never grasped it…”

    “She would surely demand an accounting from all those who signed off on Khatami’s visa. How could you?”

    “Most of the fools and fabricators are Lefties, but there are plenty on the Right, and the Republican Party has an abundance of them. Indeed, some of them sit at the right hand of the president…
    ‘The U.S. acknowledged [after] the events of September 11 that our policies might have created feelings of frustration and hatred, [causing those individuals] to board those airplanes, [fly them into the twin towers], and kill people. We want to change these circumstances, and this is what we are doing today…’ – al Jazeera – Presidential adviser Karen Hughes, 19 Dec 2005

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  102. if the war on terrorism turns out to be as big a success as the war on cancer,drugs,drunk driving,illegal aliens,speeders,non seat belt warers, and congressional term limits, well we've got nothing to worry about.
    but if we can succeed as a nation the likes of which produced O.J. Simpson,Notorius Biggs,Tupak Shakur,Madonna,Michael Moore,and Cindy Sheehan then we are a shoe in to win,and big.

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  103. Christopher Hitchens is, as always, scathingly brilliant this morning in the WSJ.

    Solidarity
    http://www.opinionjournal.com/
    editorial/feature.html?id=
    110008926

    “The beginning of wisdom is to recognize that the United States was assaulted for what it really is…”

    “The time for commemoration lies very far in the future. War memorials are erected when the war is won.”

    “[T]he "antiwar" types…I can tell you that they have been "war-weary" ever since the sun first set on the wreckage…”

    “Anyone who lost their "innocence" on September 11 was too na├»ve by far, or too stupid to begin with.”

    "We"--and our allies--simply have to become more ruthless and more experienced.”

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  104. Trish asked five years later and where are we.
    Beatles...Nowhere Man

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  105. TigerHawk has a bunch of great links and commentary up now. For those with high blood pressure, be forewarned.

    The anniversary of September 11
    http://www.tigerhawk.
    blogspot.com/

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  106. Allen re: Chris H. re: more ruthless...

    How long have I been beating that drum?
    hearts and finds..F*uck it
    don't hurt civilians, the ones that are always the backbone of any tribe,nation..f*uck 'em
    WIN THE G-D Damn was first,scourched earth.let 'em live in tents or under the sand.
    Kill the enemy and gain VICTORY,FIRST AND FOREMOST.
    All the rest of this Pentagon stuff is crap ..hell we don't even have any "killers" anymore, we have "Professionals who have a code", which apparently doesn't include outright victory and total submission of a second or third world country.
    Never Again is beginning to take on an entirely new meaning, as in Never Again protect our interests cause all we'll do is rope a dope with the UN, beg for allies, supply 98% of men and material and then LOSE.
    America has turned into a PC mongrel nation.

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  107. MSNBC is replaying its 9/11 morning broadcast.

    I've been wondering whether and when someone would so.

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  108. mongrel:

    noun: derogatory term for a variation that is not genuine; something irregular or inferior or of dubious origin

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  109. Dayam, are you people going to be like this all morning?

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  110. mongrel:

    noun: derogatory term for a variation that is not genuine; something irregular or inferior or of dubious origin


    For humans a description of a person's heritage that is negative and meant as a demeaning label; someone of mixed ethnicities.

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  111. What utter nonsense to believe that warfare as it has always been is dead. A million pairs of boots on the ground anywhere will bring pacification, if there is utterly ruthless leadership.

    Give the American public victory and you are a Super Bowl hero; all is forgiven. Give endless empty promises and platitudes devoid of action and the American public will lash out in wrath.

    On 911, it was red and yellow, black and white, all of us were in the fight. The administration has squandered that. But this war has just begun and the Islamists will hit us again, hard. When they do, America may find a leader worthy of her.

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  112. Transcendent piece in the Boston Globe by James Carroll

    "We saw the stunning courage of a legion of heroes, rushing right before our eyes into selfless jeopardy, and we saw, finally, how such heroism was futile...We humans live with that by assuming the open-ended continuation of other lives, our children and their children -- on into the indefinite future. But on 9/11, we saw the future itself as mortal...With the fateful indifference of history so instantaneously clear, the human rejection of such indifference loomed as the magnificent exception. So, of course, we turned toward one another -- what else to call it? -- in love."

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  113. Allen said:

    On 911, it was red and yellow, black and white, all of us were in the fight. The administration has squandered that. But this war has just begun and the Islamists will hit us again, hard. When they do, America may find a leader worthy of her.

    Any Joe Schmoe could lead an America that was hit again and pissed off. A real leader will rally the country from complacency and keep us from being hit again.

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  114. Teresita:
    Not speaking of us we'uns but of the Dec of Independence,Bill of Rights,other founding documents (thinking here of Federalist papers) all of which have been mongrelized..prhaps abad choice of words but not aimed at our citizentry which I'm confident would like to WIN once in a while.Sorry for the poor choice of words...help me out ...what would have been a better word...I'm just pissed this morning that on the 5th ANN. of 9-11 we're still playing what I consider patty cake.That why I chose the second definition in the dictionary online Onelook.com so as not to include people.

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  115. The Administration, Ms T, claims credit for half your requisite for leadership.
    As to the complacency of the public, the Government has been working on maintaining that since WWII. Grow the Socialist beast while keeping the folk complacent. Been doing good at it.

    Now they need to rouse the very people that they are most afraid of.

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  116. Those people are not Osama and his horde, nor Mohammedans of any sort.

    But the folk that have, like old habu, read the Declaration and see King George is still, metaphorically, in charge.

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  117. No leader will ever be able to "rally" the democrats to a free market, capitalist enterprise; no democratic leader will ever be able to rally the republicans to a socialist, welfare-state solution. 33% of Americans hate Bush so much they claim to believe that he was culpable in the attack.

    No leader will be able to rally the Frrench, who import 100% of their oil, and has Muslims as 15% of their population.

    You spoiled brats are stomping your little feetsies, and having hissie fits, because Bush hasn't pulled off the impossible. You whiney because Bush hasn't caused a conflagration that would have shut down 25% of world energy production, and caused tens of million to die world-wide as a result of $300.00/barrel oil.

    You want your neighbors kids to be drafted, but I'll bet not one of you "Hawks" has bought a Flex-fuel vehicle, or a Hybrid, or installed a solar collector on your roof. Why don't you grow up, and let the man do his job.

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  118. The "Skull & Bones" elite are more afraid of US than them. That is for sure.

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  119. The islamofacists have been hitting us forover twnety years or close to it. how much more hitting do we need to take?

    The book is still being written I hear. well we seem to be stuck on the preface.
    Wait til they hit us hard..Khobar Towers,Somolia,Iranian Embassy,USS Cole,9-11 and BOTH WTC Twin Towers GONE..GONE..GONE..one plane aiming for the WH or Capital Building,Whabbist school in Saudia Arabia spewing out anti US venom, but insanely were underwriting their university educations.
    Come on give me a break.
    I think when people use that "wait til they hit us again", what they mean is we'll have to choke down a nuke taking out part of a major city. And even then the debate will go on..who do we hit? who are they..which group, proprtional response,let's get the allies on board, lets go for a UN resolution...LETS PLAY PATTY CAKE.

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  120. flex fuel cars,alternate fuels etc are years downstream and they won't win a war anyway.
    the draft worked before but as i said we're now so far from what we were ( I said mongrelized = from our nations intent)
    the draft works because it requires each abled body person to make a committment to the nation, not just to themselves in the form of buy a plasma screen TV.
    hell our bobers haven't done shit in years, neither has the navy.
    The reason we have 33% here there and everywhere is because there is no feeling of having to pull together which servive to the country instills....we hang separately or we hang together..the neck still gets streched.

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  121. Dr, I don't care who the sumbitches are: we've got lists long enough to go from DC to LA on who are our enemies.
    Bomb 'em, round 'em up in the uS ,give'em a trial and get a verdict...carry it out
    there aren't enough words in the Oxford English dictionary to gloss over the fact that we're not prosecuting this war to the full extent of our capability. we don't need the french,english, etc..they need us. and if they don't join in then that's also a very clarifying event.

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  122. Well, with all due respect, Habu, you (and a few others) remember the draft a lot differently than I do. I saw a bunch of poor kids getting drafted, and a bunch of wealthy kids going to divinity school. I don't remember hearing of any Senator's son getting a letter. I was with a Volunteer outfit, but, believe it or not, there were even kids drafted into the Marine Corps. Don't tell me there weren't, because I had them in my platoon.

    Hybrids, and flex-fuel vehicles are here RIGHT NOW. You can cut your gasoline consumption by 70%, TOMORROW. In the case of flex-fuel vehicles it doesn't even require a higher investment; they sell for the same as non flex-fuel.

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  123. for g-d sakes we got chased out of Somolia..Somolia ..how utterly pathetic is that..it's beyond pathetic, it's a cowardly disgrace..the Mog should have been levelled the next day..levelled..if we had do you think the enemies we have now who are so emboldened and see the same pusillanemosity would be challenging us? Hell no WE gave then COURAGE by our timid approach to wowa ...even Falla knows that

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  124. rufus, 9:57:43 AM

    re: Why don't you grow up, and let the man do his job.

    It's tough to watch a legend die.

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  125. Rufus,
    I mean a draft with NO derments. If you are the son of a Senator or Congressman you go to the front of the line amd get 0300, infantry and you're made point man on every patrol. The poor kids have given and given and given. In fact if daddy isn't over 45 we draft his ass as a Congressman TAD as a rifleman.

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  126. Anthropologists, studying primitive African cultures in the middle twentieth century, were amazed that the tribal peoples would get mad, and riot, over Movies. It seems they were unable to separate "Movies" from reality.

    You folks are getting all upset over a movie in much the same way as these backward villagers. The sissies are crying and wringing their hands, the intellectuals are morose, and despondent, and the "Men" are angry, and ready to fight.

    You ALL look Silly.

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  127. We do not study War no mo', habu.

    At least not in the Policy making levels of the Military or Political leadership. Or they have convinced themselves that the new "way" is the only way.

    But it ain't a War we are engaged in, not when judged by US actions.

    I've said that for a couple of years now. Some nice poster said some months ago that through every thread, in every post, I played the same tune. That in every event I'd find the fact we were not fighting, much less winning, the Mohammedan Wars.

    It is not a matter of can not vs can do, but will not vs will do.

    Our Leadership, in both Political Parties, will not.
    The people spoke loud and clear five years ago, the leaders did answered with wilco, but did not.

    Paraphrasing Master Yoda,
    "Try not, do or do not"

    Gotta go, have a wonderful day.

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  128. How much of a draft would be necessary if young men thought the country was actually committed to victory?

    By the way, the USAF will be downsizing by 40,000, including 8,000 officers, over the next few years. About 4,000 Lts. will be let go this year, as I recall. That suggests that the administration is unwilling to use even what it has.

    The US won the Civil War, WWI, and WWII with draftees. Alexander the Great was dependent on mercenaries.

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  129. let the man do his job...people in Maine harvest sap for molasses faster than this job is being done.

    we're gonna look back and see that on his watch we were ina war IN ONE COUNTRY for longer tha it took us to win WW11.
    we're gonna look back and see that 2/3rds of the axis of evil went nuclear, which will lead to venezuela going nuclear and the cascading will continue.
    RIGHT NOW an intelligence paper is being circulated at the HIGHEST levels that indicated that ANBAR PROVINCE IS LOST .... now tell me..why haven't we levelled ANBAR PROVINCE to dust and rubble?

    http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2006/09/anbar-is-lost.html

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  130. i know the difference between movies and the real world. i was behind enemy lines covert without the cover of the geneva convention( as if that made a shit to the enemy) so i don't need a talk about real vs. hallucinations.

    What i need is a country with the balls to kill enough, bomb enough,maim enough,slaughter enough so that the message gets through loud and clear DON'T F*UCK WITH THE USA....somolia didn't quite do that and iraq is truning out the same message ...we can be had..easily...

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  131. Mr. Bush’s job might include keeping CIA, State, Homeland Security, and Defense smoothly functioning. They are not; therefore, he is not.

    There are only two pundits now known to me who support Mr. Bush, and even Fred Barnes is becoming by degrees quiescent.

    Sometimes, a steaming pile of BS is, indeed, a steaming pile of BS.

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  132. Anbar Province is Lost

    BULLSHIT

    These "reports" always reflect someone's thinking two or three months in arrears. We're taking "very few" casualties in Anbar the last few weeks.

    Does that report mean the Sunni will never like Shia domination. If it does, it's correct. The citizens of Fallujah, and Ramadi, never even accepted Saddam's domination. Those towns were founded by Caravan Raiders. A more lawless, ungovernable area doesn't exist on the face of the earth (with the possible exception being Waziristan.)

    What has your television screen looked like the last week, or so? You think the MSM is just ignoring all those bombings in Baghdad?

    Korea? Did your present President fight like a pit bull to get your Missile Defense working, and in the ground? Did he take heat from Europeans, Pacifists, and our very own Democrats every day of his administration to fund it? Did it just shoot down a N.K type missile in a live test?

    Do you honestly believe Dubya's going to let Iran go Nuclear? They don't. They're offering to shut down their enrichment for a couple of months. Ask yourself, "Why?"

    Quit your whining and bitching, and go take a nap.

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  133. Rufus has the right attitude on the war, to my mind.

    We *are* in the field, and in such a way, more or less, as to best achieve two CONFLICTING goals: beat the bad guys, without stirring up the hornets more than necessary to our ends.

    IOW, the notorious, but wise, "measured response", which is clearly appreciated by anti-jihad forces in such centers as Egypt, KSA, the UAE, Jordan, Libya, and Pakistan.

    Yes, it will take a grindingly long time--probably about as long as it was building before 911, and therein is the weakness.

    But what do we trade for ending such a weakness? Does anybody have any idea?

    To me, the onliest problem with Rufus' advice to shaddup and let the man do his job is, it leaves nothing for us to argue about in the blog comments.

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  134. finally I will say this. if the war drags on without an American TET offensive(except we win on the battle field AND in the PRESS) then you will see another anti war protest movement grow on campuses across the country.
    Abe Lincoln couldn't buy a victory before he stettled on Grant, aided by Sherman. Neither one gave a crap about anything but victory. When Grant first took over his generals all said, "Bobby Lee will do this, and Bobby Lee will do that"
    Grant told them.."I'm sick of hearing about what Bobby Lee is gonna do, now you get out there and do in Bobby Lee"
    Grant and Sherman laid waste to the South because they knew it was a war of conquest. They looked the other way at atrocities for the most part..they wanted victories and they got 'em..guess who won?

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  135. rufus said...

    but I'll bet not one of you "Hawks" has bought a Flex-fuel vehicle, or a Hybrid, or installed a solar collector on your roof.

    no, but i do buy soy oil at 5.50 a gallon for my diesel benz instead of 3.00 diesel..

    i do use a electric heater in the basement to as to not use natural gas in winter..

    i do clean out my water heater's bottom once every 8 weeks in improve it's performance

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  136. denial make the job twice as tough ,manybe more. The intelligence report is fresh. you tell'in me you know more that a guy right there now,..now that's BULLSHIT with a big sprinkling of denial.
    GOALS...you have one goal,one goal DURING an active shooting war..unconditional VICTORY..two Conflicting goals is a suicide pact.

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  137. iran shutting down for a couple of months and you're buying into that..i want you at the poker table..they are rope a doping us..they want more time..you can't be serious..

    Hornts nest..let them nuke Irael as THEY HAVE SWORN TO DO and what do you think you'll get a sno-cone?

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  138. Bravo "Occupation,"

    but we've got to find you a cheaper solution. Is there no one in your area that sells B20? Try to find some palm oil, or some combination oil, at Walmart.

    BUT, THANKS!

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  139. Trust me, Habu; You do not want me at the Poker Table.

    And, you know, I know, and the Iranians know, they ain't rope a doping Dubya.

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  140. Our president has both houses of Cogress and initially an overwhelming amount of support from the American people.

    He's lost contol of Congress, the support of the people, is LOSING the war. He lad all the levers of power a president will ever have, INCLUDING AN ATTACK ON OUR OWN SOIL and yet he can't get the job done IN ONE COUNTRY. WE DO NOT HAVE A MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. we have put our own soldier in prison for making the enemy wear panties on their heads and form a skin pile. As they say in the airline industry..all flap and no throttle.

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  141. You may be right, habu. I'm just going with my gut--that the whole frigging anti-American chunk of the world is balls-out trying to turn this war into an attempt by the Hegemon to assert Pax Americana. Tho this is the purest horseshit, it is a meme that can make the victory we are after, that much harder to gain. If there is anything to what I just said, then it means to fight a limited war with the objective of driving the jihad back underground--as per the last 1,400 years of anti-jihad strategy.

    If we're gonna finish it once and for all, we're gonna have to take the USA first--martial law.

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  142. got errands ..good toasty debate..I still love you Rufus.

    ReplyDelete
  143. As to calling on our French friends for help, who did that? Why, Mr. Bush, of course. And what was the latest French gift to its American friends: The Franco-American UNSC Resolution 1701, if you ignore what it has been doing to help Iran over the past two weeks.

    As to calling on the UN for help, who did that? Why, Mr. Bush did that. And what has the United States gotten in return? Nothing but one embarrassment and humiliation after another. In fact, our alleged arch enemy Mr. Ahmadinejad will be welcomed to New York City (F911ing New York City!) to the acclaim of the UN.

    Someone needs to tell NATO Commander, General Jones that things are going swimmingly in Afghanistan; he has not gotten the message, if his statements to the contrary last week are any indication.

    The question is not whether Anbar is lost; rather, when was it won. Arguing that it is a den of dysfunctionality is no excuse for failure. Most of Europe was once run by a cadre of psychopathic kleptomaniacs. We managed to get the job done there. Ditto the invincible Empire of Japan. Of course, having a plan and the will to win made the difference.

    Mr. Bush is the President of the United States, serving at the will of the people of the United States. He is not the United States and, therefore, unentitled to the patriotic loyalty any American. Such loyalty would be idolatry, something alien to Americanism, and precisely an antipodean abuse of the Founder’s intentions.

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  144. I'll tell you what the Iranians are seeing. They're seeing Iraq succeeding (meaning a less distracted American Leadership,) Lebanon a "Loser," and NATO kicking ass in Afghanistan. They see a 9-11 anniversary that's stirring up Bush's base. They're thinking about an upcoming election, and they're thinking about Habu's pre-election strike.

    And, they're thinking about a man who's invaded two countries (on their Eastern and Western Borders,) and set them free.

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  145. You can talk sense until you're blue in the face--do you think the left wing in this country is going to listen to a word of it? They are NOT on our side--yet they ARE Americans--with a vote, Goddamn 'em all to hell, they HAVE a VOTE.

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  146. I'm still fond of you Habu. (Rufus don't do that "Man-Love Bullshit.)

    ReplyDelete
  147. habu1; 11:08:29 AM

    re: Bobby Lee

    Mr. Lincoln had a goal: preservation of the Union, by any means.

    Mr. Lincoln wanted to win!

    Mr. Lincoln was willing to pay the price of victory, including, tragically, his life.

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  148. Allen, if GWB blew the "quick war", he had enormous help from JFingKerry's 2004 presidential campaign.

    Another thing that Iran sees is a US economy that has grown 3 trillion, or nearly a third, since 911. It's not like we're falling apart. It's not like US will be taken down by anything other than lack of long-term commitment.

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  149. How many of you "Hawks" want to see Musharraf overthrown, and control of 50 + Nuclear Warheads go to the Islamists?


    Yeah, That's what I thought.

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  150. habu said:

    WE DO NOT HAVE A MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. we have put our own soldier in prison for making the enemy wear panties on their heads and form a skin pile.

    Well now Abu Grahib is under new management, and they are sort of old school. When they form a skin pile now, it involves rolling it off like the lid on a sardine can first.

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  151. When was the last time the President publicly mentioned, much less complimented, our staunch friends in Iraq, the Kurds? I might add, Kurdistan being the only place in the G-d forsaken dung heap worth saving. Have the President or Mr. Rumsfeld or Dr. Rice ever gone to Kurdistan?

    Hey, about little Denmark. They have clamoring guys volunteering for service in Iraq. When have you heard the President publicly thank the Danes for their friendship and courage? Yeah, I didn’t think so. What you did hear during the Great Islamic Cartoon War of 2005 was the administration criticizing those insensitive to Muslim feelings; indirectly including the Danes who were the epicenter of the controversy and are still being boycotted by Mr. Bush’s friends the Saudis, among others, contrary to the rules of the WTO.

    Somewhere along the line, Mr. Bush was not taught to reward his friends and punish his foes. He has never learned, it seems, that one’s adversaries will never value one’s friendship half so much as one’s head.

    Martial law! Now, that is a thought worth serious consideration. We might have started with about a year of that throughout Iraq. It seems to me that several departments within the American government might learn a lesson from some tough love, as well.

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  152. BTW, Republican Generic vote is LEADING Democratic Generic vote 54-40 in Republican Districts. Just like in 04'.

    Remember those four or five house seats the Dems were thinking they might pick up in NY? Now, they think they'll be Lucky to Pick Up One.

    On the "Other" side of the coin: The President's approval went down, overnight - 1 point on a 3 day rolling average, which means probably two, or more, on a 1 day.

    All the Movie did was make people mad at Government "in general." All the Democrat Screeching might have worked out to their advantage. It, undoubtably, caused a lot of people to watch the program that wouldn't have, otherwise; and, since the Clintonista's aren't still around, they'll get mad at the ones that are.

    Kind of like the bunch at the Elephant Bar.

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  153. Musharraf is going to die or be overthrown, probably much sooner than latter, that being the nature of Pakistan. We better have a plan for that eventuality. Does anyone thing we do?

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  154. Is "Wishin and Hoping," a Plan?

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  155. ..returning for a moment to the Anbar province being an area of Wisirisatian composition ....then why not bomb it to rubble? There must be at minimum mud brick homes, hiding places, ie an enemy sanctuary we can't take with armor or infantry...so don't you deny the enemy ANY sanctary? or do you just say well Anbar we can't go there with troops too many might get killed...then jeez can't we srafe or bomb it to sand?

    To prosecute this war in the antisceptic fashion it's being done is to spit on the graves of those brave men and women who gave everything since 1776.

    it's relatively easy to see that our enemy doesn't fear us. We ask why and the answer comes back because martyrdom is what they seek. well we can deny that with some squeeling pigs nad bullets coated with pig grease...but NOOOO can't do that why we might hurt Islams feelings...well I'll tell ya if we start taking their dead to pig farms and letting then eat the dead the word WILL SPREAD that paradise ain't in anyones future.
    It's worked before with great effect against Islam....but no another self imposed constraint that gives full advantage to our enemy...how many stateside mothers and wives would object if you told them that if we used pig greased bullets their sons or daughters might still be alive? Hell they be buying lard for the Army by the ton.

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  156. 27 HANGED at Abu Ghraib.

    This is where we want to go. You guys have been discussing a job for the NEW MANAGEMENT.

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  157. Rufus, site all the polls you care to. as i've already pointed out he's had BOTH HOUSES OF CONGRESS and initially an overwhelming amount of SUPPORT from the American people..
    That's evaporated, the party has fissures if not fractures in it and the President can'i ID friend or foe; ie Danes and Kurds(HT Allen)

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  158. martial law?
    why would that be necessary? we've always had war protests. we lock 'em up if they get too rowdy..if they get real ,real,real rowdy and start bombing buildings etc. then guys like vigilantes kill them..then we'd get martial law, but it too would not last forever. Lincoln suspended writs, did what he had to do .... either Islam with the bomb is a gave threat or it is not.
    Three trillion economy.. good stuff but they see an army they can run out of town..(see Anbar,a town too tough to tame)..Mushariff..you really think he's not gonna get assasssinated in a country with a long and distinguihed history of that..you don't think India won't nuke 'em if they even shine up the bomb a teenie bit?

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  159. Damn, Habu; did you start drinking at 6:00 AM, or have you just not been to bed, yet?

    Sure, the American People are disappointed that Iraq is messy, and that Iraqi politicians seem to give "Corrupt" a whole new meaning. But, we're supposed to be a little smarter than the average Joe. We're old enough, and we've been around enough that we're "supposed" to be able to figure out how the world works.

    We're supposed to be able to recognize that you can lose the war by "winning" the battle.

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  160. Maybe we can hook Musharraf up with the Cuban doctors who made Castro immortal.

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  161. Rufus...we should have hanged those 22 .. but nooo we court martial our troops who were most likely following "suggestions" fro higher ups who of course walked.
    But what's a little jail time to a high school grad when you can save a colonel or general with a verbal repremand at cocktails in the green zone?

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  162. Our Congress has, by bipartisan manipulation, managed to fix districts to the advantage of incumbents. Again, using a bipartisan approach approved by the President, McCain-Feingold cripples free electioneering, again to the advantage of incumbents. So, if the Republicans maintain their majority that should come as no surprise.

    However, what does America, as opposed to Republicans, gain from such a victory? Does America get lasting victories in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran? Will America's border with Mexico be secure from massive illegal trespass? Will America's northern and southern borders be secure from terrorist infiltration? Will apparent Muslims be profiled at airports instead of Mr. Amis's eight year-old daughter? Will the President veto a single pork laden bill? Will the Armed Forces budget increase to garner the manpower needed for the "Long War?"

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  163. Just for old time's sake, the Belmont Club is missing one heck of a debate!

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  164. my G-d we even listen to an organization that has Cuba on the Human Rights Committee and is letting Syria guarantee the lebanese border ...we're insane.

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  165. We will be deprived of the services of Alcee Hastings, John Dingell, Charlie Rangell, John Conyers, Nancy Pelosi, and John Murtha, to name a few, as

    Committee Chairmen!

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  166. teresita,

    re: the immortal Fidel

    Comrade Castro had all his body parts. If the past is predicate, Mr. Musharraf will not be so fortunate.

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  167. Wes, let's get THAT bunch into the committee chairmanships, speaker, and majority leader positions! THAT'll fix all these issues!

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  168. rufus,

    re: Committee Chairmen

    Have you seen pictures of that lot lately? Examples of the wonders of the Egyptian embalmers' art. We are talking UGLY!

    Hell, I had forgetten whether half them were still with us. From the looks of things, I still wonder.

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  169. They have large staffs of Red Guards chomping at the bit--even if they themselves are off in space.

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  170. war is not a game,politics is a game.
    in war life's dreams are ended,families permanently tramatized, bodies blown up so badly you can't even tell if it was a human.
    you don't do that unless you intend on WINNING,WINNING USING ALL YOUR MIGHT and DESTROYING the ememy. I was born Aril 14, 1948 and we haven't won a war in my lifetime. Not Korea,not Vietnam, not now. if you want to argue Desert Storm go ahead, but there is where we are now once again. In none of those wars was it necessary to draw or lose, but life became to dear and peace too sweet so that we allowed Lillputian ties to bind us. Roosevelt and Marshall sold out at Yalta and we are now selling out to the UN and a New World Order.

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  171. Anyone who thinks "Politics" is a Game is hopelessly Naive. Habu, it's the Politicians that determine how and when wars are fought.

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  172. Look, I am not lusting in my heart for the triumphal return of the Democrats. But, neither the President nor his party majority has done much since the halcyon days of March 2003 to warm the cockles of my heart.

    Asking me to support either is akin to asking if I would prefer to bathe in a warm tub of puke or shit.

    How are we going to get some real leadership?

    Can the Muslims physically conquer the United States? No, not anytime soon. But a long war works to their advantage. No defense remains forever inviolate. Therefore, the longer this goes on, the better the chances of a patient band of terrorists visiting death and destruction on the homeland.

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  173. Alcee Hastings, John Dingell, Charlie Rangell, John Conyers, Nancy Pelosi, and John Murtha.
    Those are the districts where your internal strife will begin. The divide in this country is 47% right,47%left and a swing in the middle 6%.. but the left has a dedicated cadre of socialist and communist, with a smattering of anarchist leading the part. The Republicans for the most part are still all in the Social Register, with a Newt here and a Haley Barbour there...(Newt/Barbour ticket)....but another Democratic defeat (which I will work for) will send some of the activists over the hill right into the reticles of the vigilantes ... oh brother

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  174. Got a turn-around going in the Supreme Court. Got a turnaround going in the UN (relative to under Clinton). Got the global economy cookin'. Fighting the assh*les on their own ground. Got a lot of the incentives restored to the tax code. Big things all.

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  175. but no, the sumbitch ain't been by to wash my truck, mow the yard, or get me onto the Bowflex. So, OUT wif his ass.

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  176. Rufus,'it's a game.

    You scratch my back , I'll scratch yours ...you pork here, I'll pork there..we'll all use the Congressional Post office as a money laundering device. I'll get blow jobs from interns while discussing war policy on the phone, Wilbur MIlls and the Tidal Basin Bombshell, Gary Hart and Monkey Business with Donna Rice, FDR and his secretary, JFK and Judith Extner and the mob...it's a game Rufus...a huge power tripp'in ego blow'in party.

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  177. yeah Buddy that Kelo case was a sure victory for a "turned" court.

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  178. There's a few out of the 535 who aren't scuzz. Let's back them.

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  179. Don't you think Kelo will be re-visted?

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  180. "Turned" is not the same thing as "turning", anyway.

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  181. Oil @ 65+ and falling, gold just went below $600. World big-money dialing down the fear.

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  182. This morning’s discussion proves, I think, the rightness of Jonah Goldberg’s sorrowful complaint: for well being, America needs two responsible parties.

    What I would give to have guys like Sam Nunn still around to make this election substantive, rather than a vote against Nancy Pelosi and company.

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  183. Habu, you keep naming things done, or caused to be done, by Democrats.

    What's your point? FDR diddled his secretary, so we should vote Alcee Hastings into a committee chair?

    The Demo appointee's on the Supreme Court screwed the pooch with kelo, so we should help John Conyers and John Murtha get Committee Charimanships?

    Go take a nap.

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  184. "Martial law! Now, that is a thought worth serious consideration."

    A little late to consider it now.

    We never wanted, much less planned, to occupy Iraq, only to liberate it. Poor Stephen Vincent abhored the term occupation and insisted that we were NOT occupiers but liberators.

    He was right.

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  185. don't get me wrong, I'll end up voting straight republican but if I'm a Repulican on the Hill I'm given the president an earfull...why..cause he's earned it...he's had the time , he's had the tools, he's had the people.
    He's also spent more money on social welfare programs than any President in history and vetoed a total of ONE bill.
    And still there's the spectre of a lost Iraq or more likely a Korean style protracted stay of 30-40 years and a pending pre or post election nuclear drop on Iran.
    And if you think I'm animated now IF he doesn't attack that spoke on the axis of evil wheel, I'll really think he's a poor president., and pooh on him.

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  186. Rufus 1:08..one thing is immutable...NOTHING IS CONSTANT BUT CHANGE.

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  187. buddy,

    Has anyone here complained of the economy?

    Hey, I am glad of the indicators you cite.

    I also know that nineteen determined, undetected Muslims can wipe out about one trillion in wealth in 17 minutes.

    Unlike Jay Rockefeller, I do not believe Iraq would be better off with Saddam back. That said, I do not believe the United States is better off with the status quo.

    Wherever American boots step, America must prevail. If not, stay home.

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  188. Allen said in part:
    Can the Muslims physically conquer the United States? No, not anytime soon.
    i fully agree but the question is have they already FORCED a change in the way the entire world functions and have they had an immense impact on the United States.....the unalloyed answer is YES.

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  189. FOLKS...step right up and spin the big wheel of opinion ..thta's what we do here at the Elephant Bar so pass the word.
    Just send $10.00 to "Peace in Our Time" The Elephant Club, Wherever USA or Planet Earth.

    Women's opinions are free..no limit.

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  190. We have an army astride the global fuel tank, and due to the unending calls to leave from the USA itself, are not being seriously accused of 'wanting to have an army astride the global fuel tank'.

    Pretty damned adroit, from that point-of-view.

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  191. lightning storm--RAIN--gotta sign off and go whoop around in it--

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  192. Discussion schedule:

    2:00-3:00 proper soil ph for growing good tasting zuchinni.

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