“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."

Sunday, September 10, 2006

The Last Moments of Hope

While these Americans were still clinging to hope, I was in my Landcruiser on my way to my office in San Jose. The sky in Costa Rica was as blue as it was in New York City. My day was going to end with expats in a bar named after Che Gueverra. With fellow Americans and universally sympathetic Europeans and Canadians, we speculated as to what would happen in the future. For the Americans and others hanging from the windows of the doomed towers, their day never ended. Their bodies and future would fall to dust in the streets of Manhattan. Where are we five years later and where are we going?


  1. If the Mohammedans had an ICBM, rufus, that'd be great news. As it stands it is just another card in a deck that we do not use.

    Other than the Pakistani the Mohammedans do not have a payload of note to place upon their nonexistant ICBMs.

    The Iraqi Army is improving, no doubt about that, their loyalty though is not to US. Their troops not having been indoctrinated by exposure to US. Instead they have been segregated from the Americans. re: Camp Tanji.

    This type of disrespect does not engender admiration or respect of US by the Iraqi.

    habu still waits on the moon's phases, knowing in his heart that Mr Bush will act, decisively.
    While the Iranians say that they "just may" suspend enrichment for a month or two.
    Jaw Jaw.

    Without the proper permission papers Mr Bush will not act, IMO.
    There is no precendent in his past for it.

  2. That is true, rufus, and I'm certainly glad that the System is functional.
    It does not begin to solve our core challenges. That will require institutional change on the part of the Federals.
    Changes that are not likely to occur any time soon, regardless of Elections or the continued occuppation of Iraq.

  3. Mr Bush had major public support for military action in Afghanistan, That public support has drained away. The Military did not even want to deploy to Afghanistan in force, General Franks and the Tora Bora action stands in evidence.
    Mr Bush needed a permission slip from the UN for Iraq. He got it in Resolution 1441.
    Look to the Authorization for use of Force in Iraq for proof. We were going to Iraq to enforce UN Resolutions.
    There are no such Resolutions in regard Iran. And there will not be.
    The Chinese and Russians will see to that.

  4. Muddle into another War?
    With a country three times the size of Iraq.

    That, my friend, is not the "way".

  5. Looks like Mr Maliki is going to take his shot at subduing the Insurgency.

  6. Although no one can know how many Muslims illegally have slipped into the US from Canada and Mexico,

    “In 2005, more people from Muslim countries became legal permanent United States residents — nearly 96,000 — than in any year in the previous two decades.”

    “Up to six million Muslims live in the United States…[T]he Census Bureau and the Department of Homeland Security do not track religion…”

    “[S]tarting in 2004, the numbers rebounded…The tally of people coming to live in the United States…[from] Muslim countries rose by 20 percent…”

    “The uptick was also notable among foreigners with nonimmigrant visas. More than 55,000 Indonesians, for instance, were issued those visas last year, compared with roughly 36,000 in 2002.”

    More Muslims Arrive in U.S., After 9/11 Dip

  7. Certainly, being opposed to the Patriot Act proves assimilation with the Dems and Senator Hagel. The chances of successfully assimilating our new Muslim neighbors into the democratic dream and Americanism is just about the same as our success in Iraq, I think.

    "Yet this period also produced something strikingly positive, in the eyes of many Muslims: they began to mobilize politically and socially. Across the country, grass-roots groups expanded to educate Muslims on civil rights, register them to vote and lobby against new federal policies such as the Patriot Act."

    “There was the option of becoming introverted or extroverted,” said Agha Saeed, national chairman of the American Muslim Task Force on Civil Rights and Elections, an umbrella organization in Newark, Calif. “We became extroverted.”

  8. When "duece" first join our merry band of posters he was in favor of isolating the "West" from the Mohammedans.
    While that would be difficult, removing those Mohammedans from the US, we could have limited the further influx of the Mohammedans into our Society.

    Instead we allow ever greater numbers of them into the Country.

    This is not a case of BDS or some Liberal moonbat conspiracy theory, but a reality. Why do we allow it?
    Is it the Skull & Bones policy position?

  9. This Martin Amis piece has been referred to here and there already--I'm just adding my two centavos.

    It's a long piece, and the Engishman's take on GWB's body language I could do without (right, GWB is a "provincial"), but it is a MOST excellent think-piece.

    I've never seen Islamism taken down quite so utterly.

    And I agree that the solution is in awakening Muslim women (yeah,"easy!").

    But, take it from me, this is a true 'must read'.

  10. rufus said:

    Wetchard's anti-torture crowd need to check up on this. They might be making them wear "panties on their head!

    I think under this new management, instead of letting dogs just bark at the prisoners they're letting the dogs tear off a piece of them. Fuck 'em. This is a premonition of what will happen to the Euroweenies when they get under Sharia management. "We want the Americans back!" Pshhh.

  11. Speaking of the administration’s sense of priorities and sensitivity:

    Huge Shipment of Hatred Headed for U.S.

    “15,000 young peaceful religionists raised on the most virulently anti-infidel form of Islam are about to be sent to our universities by the Saudi government.”

    “Thousands of students from Saudi Arabia are enrolling on college campuses across the United States this semester under a new educational exchange program brokered by President Bush and Saudi King Abdullah.”

    “The U.S. State Department sees the exchange as a way to build ties with future Saudi leaders and young scholars…”

    “Meanwhile back in Muhammadland, there's still a bit to worry about regarding the curriculum that these kids are graduating from. ‘Saudi schoolbooks still in dispute five years after 9/11.’”

  12. Onliest thing I can figure, Allen, is that KSA is paying top dollah to our universities, and that is not without its influence within revolving door-land.

    Any chance those students will take an appreciation for western ways, back to Araby wif 'em?

  13. buddy larsen,

    re: top dollar

    Somewhere I saw the figure $31,000 per student at the University of Kansas. Also, if memory serves, the costs will be at the out-of-state rates across the board. Whether that was per semester or per year, I do not recall.

  14. buddy larsen,

    re: western ways

    Only our weaknesses, if history is any indicator.

  15. 2164th,

    Alas, the Club is no more. Only the Belmont. But I can't say as I blame the Cat.

    Thanks for setting up the refuge.


    With the 15 Big Ones to be tapped off Louisiana, I guess we can all agree that old Tom Jefferson finally got his money's worth? (Or would that be expecting too much?)



    The Pygmy is the short one. Yao is the tall one, in case you can't tell the difference from the textbook galleys.

    - Db2m

    (I don't know who that DB2 guy is, but hey, how many Jim Smiths are there?)

  16. rufus,

    re: CIA outreach

    Nothing these days would surprise. If things get any more confusing, I'll have to get a giant cork punch board to keep track of past-present-future enemies-allies - where, when, what, and how.

  17. db2m,

    re: Belmont

    Today, I decided to quit checking. Maybe we should appoint a dedicated checker to keep the hits counter down.

  18. rufus, wordy for shore. but, solid, solid observation. imho, anyhoo.

  19. Greeley, Colorado did not have much positive impact on that fella, Sayyid Qutb, you had us read about, buddy.
    To much "love" for him to assimulate.
    M. Atta, he was educated here in the "West" was he not?
    Familiarity breeds contempt, not respect, or so the "old saying" goes.
    There are truisms in "old sayings", are there not?

    "... For it was in Greeley, Colorado, in 1949, that Islamism, as we now know it, was decisively shaped. ...
    ... the result has been a kind of rolling genocide, and the figure is perhaps two million. And it all goes back to Greeley, Colorado, and to Sayyid Qutb. ..."

    Out of 15,000 how many Sayyid Qutb clones will there be, even Osama would have qualified for a Visa, when he was 19.
    From Iran the US will be paying $25,000 each to bring 200 cross cultural assimulants to US. These folk, language teachers will be from the recently purged of "western influence" teacher pool of Iran.

  20. The remarks from Mr Snow, about the US no longer "Staying the Course" seem true enough.

    The new Course is no improvement, in fact it is, seemingly, worse. IMO

  21. Sorta like calling all bets in a poker hand without even knowing your hole card, isn't it.

    Was the town named for Horace Greeley, Civil War era newspaperman & politician, remembered for "Go West, Young Man, Go West!"?

    Fans of odd connections will find many in this wiki on Greeley.

  22. buddy larsen,

    re: Amis essay

    Great read! Thanks.

    How can it be doubted that, if after 14 centuries Islam has taken the typical current iteration, a "Long War" will make no difference, with the presumptive status quo ante.

    I frequently read of the need for an Islamic reformation, as if Luther's was somehow liberal. Well, Islam had a recent Luther: OBL. What Islam needs is a Copernicus or Galileo.

  23. By January, U.S. government officials say the program will expand to 15,000, which means Saudi Arabia will send more foreign students to the U.S. than Mexico or Turkey. As funding for the scholarship program expands, those numbers are likely to grow.

    College administrators say common misperceptions about the oil-rich nation make it crucial to create a tolerant environment for Arab and Muslim students, who have been singled out for scrutiny since the Sept. 11 attacks five years ago

    Haven't we learned already, that many Muslim youths have difficulty adjusting to life outside the Ummah. And that their response to the cultural cognitive dissonance is often involves jihad against the host country. London train bombings, anyone? IIRC, many of the jihadis who have carried out suicide attacks against the West (including some of the 9/11 cell) were educated in western univerisities. I'm recalling a cell in Hamburg Germany and one Islamist who was at UNC. This alone should suggest caution at inviting them in by the thousands. The math is simple. If 1% of the students are Radical Islamists, we will soon have 150 true believers operating in the US. If only 1 in 1000 are jihadist, we have a cell of 15. Lord what fools these (American) mortals be.

    Regarding the Belmont Club sans comments, my impression was that 2164th was starting this blog as a place to discuss Belmont Club posts without limits on comments - a place like I thought was intended by The Belmont Lounge which Wretchard set-up years ago but which was never used. Wretchard continues to post gem after gem. They are begging for comments

  24. Lots of modern-sounding positions and ploys. A century-and-a-half are nothing, really. He'd be a pretzel-Dem today, I guess, in that he was all for the war in 1862 but by the time of the 1864 elections, was calling for terms with the South.

  25. I'm sorry, Greeley, I meant. thread zipped by--

  26. "These f-ers are crazy!" and, they're scared to death of losing control of the women.

  27. whit,

    re: "These f-ers are crazy!"

    The Islamists or the western elites playing at pacification and assimilation?

  28. whit,
    Since this time, yesterday, about 8,000 hits have been made at the BC. Almost 250,000 per month.
    He is syndicated, at PJ.
    It is not the Elephant Bar patrons checking back that are driving those kind of numbers.
    It is really a new age, and Mr Fernandez is in the vanguard.

  29. We get the same rate as "Sex in the City", $45 per thousand, for our print & Inet work.

    PJ most likely has a similar click through fee for those ads.
    Google ends up charging about a dollar a hit, more of less, from my limited experiments with goggle ads.
    PJ by pooling a number of blog sites can get a large enough base to make the sales efforts worth while.

    So at the "Sex in the City" rate, a high regular TV rate, the click through would get you fortyfive cents. More than that and you're really paying or getting a substantial premium.

  30. Blogger, by offering the format for free, really makes for an interesting platform.
    There are no production or printing costs. Just sales expense.

  31. evening sept 10th.. wife arrived home in her nice american airlines flight attendant uniform, from washington dc., not to long ago she traded in her twa international one for AA

    sept 11 9:00 ish.. we watched planes hit and just sat stunned..

    10:00 walked across the street to my next door neighbor and we started speaking, I stated welcome to my world.

    the sites of those innocent people falling/jumping off the twin towers had instantly ripped off the veneer I had been using as polite cover for the previous decades when talking about islamic murderers. TWA, Israel, Jewish Community Center attacks, 1st trade center attacks, etc all of this came to a boil, and now I dont care who i offend..

    we are at war with islamic facists, the bastard sons of hitler. Only the arab moslems did not sign a surrender after ww2.... from nasser and arab nationalism to arafatism to wahabbism to persian messiah bullshit... it's all the same shit and it stinks.

    i could list the 40 different groups that all are actually "the party of allah" but it dont matter, recently the senate came out and stated that iraq did not have Al Qaeda links, however now the spin doctors are pushing that limited statement.

    iraq had supported palestinian suicide bombers, period, that is enough.

    but back to the victims of islamic terror, 10's of thousands of moslems have been murdered by these bastards, thousands of americans, thousand of israelis, thousands of africans... and many more...

    let us not forget the images that our country has censored so completely. we should not seek to publish gruesome photos to stir up passions, however we should not forget the enemy that in which we deal.

    as I have said for many decades, never again, i shall lend it to my nation as well...

    never again

  32. All regular commenters should contribute some nominal amount. We are using this as a Prime Source of entertainment, and you are paying for it.

    In my case that would be sort of like going, ::SMACK:: "Thank You Sir May I Have Another?" ::SMACK:: "Thank You Sir May I Have Another?"...lather, rinse, repeat.

  33. desert rat said:

    Since this time, yesterday, about 8,000 hits have been made at the BC. Almost 250,000 per month. He is syndicated, at PJ. It is not the Elephant Bar patrons checking back that are driving those kind of numbers.

    I am really tempted to shout FUCK THAT SELLOUT! Wretchard's commentary alone wasn't the selling point of the Belmont Club for me at all, it was the followups from a wide variety of Clubbers.

  34. Cool down, there, teresita. He's been working hard on that site for years and years. Give him some breathing room. He gave all of us, for a long long time, a great place to jaw jaw. Don't be an ingrate--it's the least attractive of all the minor vices.

  35. I was sorry to read (unless I misunderstood-amated) that Wretchard is closing BC to input from commentators.
    DR and a bunch of you folks have been with him a lot longer than I have and it must be like losing an old friend. I wish him well and prosperity with it.
    He will need access to "people who know things" and then I think he'll be fine. Anyway the marketplace will decide. All I can say is it's crowded out there with good commentary and if talent is the arbiter in this market then I think he has winner written all over himself.
    Best of luck old chap,

  36. Well, I likes dat ridin in de bed o de truck wit de dawgs, too, me.

    Hats off to ABC for "The show". It was really good. Second half tomorrow night. I honestly don't know why the Clintonistas went so berserk over it. Now they look like a buncha damn fools all over again.

  37. I'll tell you what gets to me. that picture at the top of this post. I zoomed it up and you can see individual human beings in those windows. It's really just to much to contemplate. There is nothing for it but blind anger.

  38. Buddy,
    If you google for pictures of the WTC on 9-11 there are many that will make you cry

  39. know what makes this thing go up? funding makes this thing go bucks, no Buck Rogers.....

    Movie "The Right Stuff"

    Now Richard will find out as the market makes it's choice.

  40. It would be unsporting of him however to not let those who contributed to his success know how and why he came to his decision.
    One does not build a success alone. Good taste dictates a reason be given.

  41. Trish, do you mean 'hard humanism' won't survive? Jeez, girl. We not in that bad a shape.

    Anon, look at this. Well, maybe don't.

  42. By the way, does anyone know Richard personally, or is it simply through his writing we elevate him to such august heights?

  43. Anon, a year or two ago he shared--under some good-natured pressure to do so--some personal info, via a blog post. It'll be in the archives--tho I can't recall the title. Maybe someone can. Good dude, tho. Filipino, bootstrapped himself thru Harvard, worked for the Phillipine Gov't out in the boonies, I get the impression in the anti-communism effort. In Australia now, raising a young family. The couple who run Gates of Vienna, Baron Bodissey & Dymphna, have collaborated with him some, and know him 'internet' well. All that is IIRC.

  44. Trish, I was following along the line of individual attitudes. The combination of making no excuses whatever for the bad guys, on the basis of cold outrage over their effect on plain old ordinary people the world over.

  45. Of course without policy, that's just a mouthful of platitudinous jellybeans.

  46. Heim, the glaciologist?

    Say, how'd yer lips get puffy, Puffy Lips?

  47. Then they're not puffy, they're just "big".

  48. re sadness & 911, this Peggy Noonan meditation on all those last phone calls is too real. What people said. Kinda makes ya feel good about humanity. The illo is great, little cellphones flying around like angels, while a broken heart is two ears, hearing those last messages. A novelist wouldn't dare make up stuff like that.

  49. Some ways to go yet, Trish. Book is still open.

  50. bobalharb said:

    Albert Heim, would say, from personal experience, and study, that the falling man is feeling fine.

    I prefer to view humans as risen apes, not fallen angels.

  51. R.I.P.

    Puffy_ Lips was a ruse.

    Her blow up valve broke and she fle around the room like atoy balloon.

    She is vapor

  52. Writing under simple byline “9/11” Michael Ledeen is livid as he recalls the vivacious Barbara Olsen, and so should we all.

    “There are many who are saying that we have lost that anger… But many of our opposition leaders, journalists, broadcasters, and editors, and, apparently, the overwhelming majority of the professoriate, clearly have… because they never grasped it…”

    “She would surely demand an accounting from all those who signed off on Khatami’s visa. How could you?”

    “Most of the fools and fabricators are Lefties, but there are plenty on the Right, and the Republican Party has an abundance of them. Indeed, some of them sit at the right hand of the president…
    ‘The U.S. acknowledged [after] the events of September 11 that our policies might have created feelings of frustration and hatred, [causing those individuals] to board those airplanes, [fly them into the twin towers], and kill people. We want to change these circumstances, and this is what we are doing today…’ – al Jazeera – Presidential adviser Karen Hughes, 19 Dec 2005

  53. if the war on terrorism turns out to be as big a success as the war on cancer,drugs,drunk driving,illegal aliens,speeders,non seat belt warers, and congressional term limits, well we've got nothing to worry about.
    but if we can succeed as a nation the likes of which produced O.J. Simpson,Notorius Biggs,Tupak Shakur,Madonna,Michael Moore,and Cindy Sheehan then we are a shoe in to win,and big.

  54. Christopher Hitchens is, as always, scathingly brilliant this morning in the WSJ.


    “The beginning of wisdom is to recognize that the United States was assaulted for what it really is…”

    “The time for commemoration lies very far in the future. War memorials are erected when the war is won.”

    “[T]he "antiwar" types…I can tell you that they have been "war-weary" ever since the sun first set on the wreckage…”

    “Anyone who lost their "innocence" on September 11 was too na├»ve by far, or too stupid to begin with.”

    "We"--and our allies--simply have to become more ruthless and more experienced.”

  55. Trish asked five years later and where are we.
    Beatles...Nowhere Man

  56. TigerHawk has a bunch of great links and commentary up now. For those with high blood pressure, be forewarned.

    The anniversary of September 11

  57. Allen re: Chris H. re: more ruthless...

    How long have I been beating that drum?
    hearts and finds..F*uck it
    don't hurt civilians, the ones that are always the backbone of any tribe,nation..f*uck 'em
    WIN THE G-D Damn was first,scourched earth.let 'em live in tents or under the sand.
    Kill the enemy and gain VICTORY,FIRST AND FOREMOST.
    All the rest of this Pentagon stuff is crap ..hell we don't even have any "killers" anymore, we have "Professionals who have a code", which apparently doesn't include outright victory and total submission of a second or third world country.
    Never Again is beginning to take on an entirely new meaning, as in Never Again protect our interests cause all we'll do is rope a dope with the UN, beg for allies, supply 98% of men and material and then LOSE.
    America has turned into a PC mongrel nation.

  58. mongrel:

    noun: derogatory term for a variation that is not genuine; something irregular or inferior or of dubious origin

  59. mongrel:

    noun: derogatory term for a variation that is not genuine; something irregular or inferior or of dubious origin

    For humans a description of a person's heritage that is negative and meant as a demeaning label; someone of mixed ethnicities.

  60. What utter nonsense to believe that warfare as it has always been is dead. A million pairs of boots on the ground anywhere will bring pacification, if there is utterly ruthless leadership.

    Give the American public victory and you are a Super Bowl hero; all is forgiven. Give endless empty promises and platitudes devoid of action and the American public will lash out in wrath.

    On 911, it was red and yellow, black and white, all of us were in the fight. The administration has squandered that. But this war has just begun and the Islamists will hit us again, hard. When they do, America may find a leader worthy of her.

  61. Transcendent piece in the Boston Globe by James Carroll

    "We saw the stunning courage of a legion of heroes, rushing right before our eyes into selfless jeopardy, and we saw, finally, how such heroism was futile...We humans live with that by assuming the open-ended continuation of other lives, our children and their children -- on into the indefinite future. But on 9/11, we saw the future itself as mortal...With the fateful indifference of history so instantaneously clear, the human rejection of such indifference loomed as the magnificent exception. So, of course, we turned toward one another -- what else to call it? -- in love."

  62. Allen said:

    On 911, it was red and yellow, black and white, all of us were in the fight. The administration has squandered that. But this war has just begun and the Islamists will hit us again, hard. When they do, America may find a leader worthy of her.

    Any Joe Schmoe could lead an America that was hit again and pissed off. A real leader will rally the country from complacency and keep us from being hit again.

  63. Teresita:
    Not speaking of us we'uns but of the Dec of Independence,Bill of Rights,other founding documents (thinking here of Federalist papers) all of which have been mongrelized..prhaps abad choice of words but not aimed at our citizentry which I'm confident would like to WIN once in a while.Sorry for the poor choice of me out ...what would have been a better word...I'm just pissed this morning that on the 5th ANN. of 9-11 we're still playing what I consider patty cake.That why I chose the second definition in the dictionary online so as not to include people.

  64. The Administration, Ms T, claims credit for half your requisite for leadership.
    As to the complacency of the public, the Government has been working on maintaining that since WWII. Grow the Socialist beast while keeping the folk complacent. Been doing good at it.

    Now they need to rouse the very people that they are most afraid of.

  65. Those people are not Osama and his horde, nor Mohammedans of any sort.

    But the folk that have, like old habu, read the Declaration and see King George is still, metaphorically, in charge.

  66. The "Skull & Bones" elite are more afraid of US than them. That is for sure.

  67. The islamofacists have been hitting us forover twnety years or close to it. how much more hitting do we need to take?

    The book is still being written I hear. well we seem to be stuck on the preface.
    Wait til they hit us hard..Khobar Towers,Somolia,Iranian Embassy,USS Cole,9-11 and BOTH WTC Twin Towers plane aiming for the WH or Capital Building,Whabbist school in Saudia Arabia spewing out anti US venom, but insanely were underwriting their university educations.
    Come on give me a break.
    I think when people use that "wait til they hit us again", what they mean is we'll have to choke down a nuke taking out part of a major city. And even then the debate will go on..who do we hit? who are they..which group, proprtional response,let's get the allies on board, lets go for a UN resolution...LETS PLAY PATTY CAKE.

  68. flex fuel cars,alternate fuels etc are years downstream and they won't win a war anyway.
    the draft worked before but as i said we're now so far from what we were ( I said mongrelized = from our nations intent)
    the draft works because it requires each abled body person to make a committment to the nation, not just to themselves in the form of buy a plasma screen TV.
    hell our bobers haven't done shit in years, neither has the navy.
    The reason we have 33% here there and everywhere is because there is no feeling of having to pull together which servive to the country instills....we hang separately or we hang together..the neck still gets streched.

  69. Dr, I don't care who the sumbitches are: we've got lists long enough to go from DC to LA on who are our enemies.
    Bomb 'em, round 'em up in the uS ,give'em a trial and get a verdict...carry it out
    there aren't enough words in the Oxford English dictionary to gloss over the fact that we're not prosecuting this war to the full extent of our capability. we don't need the french,english, etc..they need us. and if they don't join in then that's also a very clarifying event.

  70. for g-d sakes we got chased out of Somolia..Somolia utterly pathetic is's beyond pathetic, it's a cowardly disgrace..the Mog should have been levelled the next day..levelled..if we had do you think the enemies we have now who are so emboldened and see the same pusillanemosity would be challenging us? Hell no WE gave then COURAGE by our timid approach to wowa ...even Falla knows that

  71. rufus, 9:57:43 AM

    re: Why don't you grow up, and let the man do his job.

    It's tough to watch a legend die.

  72. Rufus,
    I mean a draft with NO derments. If you are the son of a Senator or Congressman you go to the front of the line amd get 0300, infantry and you're made point man on every patrol. The poor kids have given and given and given. In fact if daddy isn't over 45 we draft his ass as a Congressman TAD as a rifleman.

  73. We do not study War no mo', habu.

    At least not in the Policy making levels of the Military or Political leadership. Or they have convinced themselves that the new "way" is the only way.

    But it ain't a War we are engaged in, not when judged by US actions.

    I've said that for a couple of years now. Some nice poster said some months ago that through every thread, in every post, I played the same tune. That in every event I'd find the fact we were not fighting, much less winning, the Mohammedan Wars.

    It is not a matter of can not vs can do, but will not vs will do.

    Our Leadership, in both Political Parties, will not.
    The people spoke loud and clear five years ago, the leaders did answered with wilco, but did not.

    Paraphrasing Master Yoda,
    "Try not, do or do not"

    Gotta go, have a wonderful day.

  74. How much of a draft would be necessary if young men thought the country was actually committed to victory?

    By the way, the USAF will be downsizing by 40,000, including 8,000 officers, over the next few years. About 4,000 Lts. will be let go this year, as I recall. That suggests that the administration is unwilling to use even what it has.

    The US won the Civil War, WWI, and WWII with draftees. Alexander the Great was dependent on mercenaries.

  75. let the man do his job...people in Maine harvest sap for molasses faster than this job is being done.

    we're gonna look back and see that on his watch we were ina war IN ONE COUNTRY for longer tha it took us to win WW11.
    we're gonna look back and see that 2/3rds of the axis of evil went nuclear, which will lead to venezuela going nuclear and the cascading will continue.
    RIGHT NOW an intelligence paper is being circulated at the HIGHEST levels that indicated that ANBAR PROVINCE IS LOST .... now tell me..why haven't we levelled ANBAR PROVINCE to dust and rubble?

  76. i know the difference between movies and the real world. i was behind enemy lines covert without the cover of the geneva convention( as if that made a shit to the enemy) so i don't need a talk about real vs. hallucinations.

    What i need is a country with the balls to kill enough, bomb enough,maim enough,slaughter enough so that the message gets through loud and clear DON'T F*UCK WITH THE USA....somolia didn't quite do that and iraq is truning out the same message ...we can be had..easily...

  77. Mr. Bush’s job might include keeping CIA, State, Homeland Security, and Defense smoothly functioning. They are not; therefore, he is not.

    There are only two pundits now known to me who support Mr. Bush, and even Fred Barnes is becoming by degrees quiescent.

    Sometimes, a steaming pile of BS is, indeed, a steaming pile of BS.

  78. Rufus has the right attitude on the war, to my mind.

    We *are* in the field, and in such a way, more or less, as to best achieve two CONFLICTING goals: beat the bad guys, without stirring up the hornets more than necessary to our ends.

    IOW, the notorious, but wise, "measured response", which is clearly appreciated by anti-jihad forces in such centers as Egypt, KSA, the UAE, Jordan, Libya, and Pakistan.

    Yes, it will take a grindingly long time--probably about as long as it was building before 911, and therein is the weakness.

    But what do we trade for ending such a weakness? Does anybody have any idea?

    To me, the onliest problem with Rufus' advice to shaddup and let the man do his job is, it leaves nothing for us to argue about in the blog comments.

  79. finally I will say this. if the war drags on without an American TET offensive(except we win on the battle field AND in the PRESS) then you will see another anti war protest movement grow on campuses across the country.
    Abe Lincoln couldn't buy a victory before he stettled on Grant, aided by Sherman. Neither one gave a crap about anything but victory. When Grant first took over his generals all said, "Bobby Lee will do this, and Bobby Lee will do that"
    Grant told them.."I'm sick of hearing about what Bobby Lee is gonna do, now you get out there and do in Bobby Lee"
    Grant and Sherman laid waste to the South because they knew it was a war of conquest. They looked the other way at atrocities for the most part..they wanted victories and they got 'em..guess who won?

  80. rufus said...

    but I'll bet not one of you "Hawks" has bought a Flex-fuel vehicle, or a Hybrid, or installed a solar collector on your roof.

    no, but i do buy soy oil at 5.50 a gallon for my diesel benz instead of 3.00 diesel..

    i do use a electric heater in the basement to as to not use natural gas in winter..

    i do clean out my water heater's bottom once every 8 weeks in improve it's performance

  81. denial make the job twice as tough ,manybe more. The intelligence report is fresh. you tell'in me you know more that a guy right there now, that's BULLSHIT with a big sprinkling of denial. have one goal,one goal DURING an active shooting war..unconditional VICTORY..two Conflicting goals is a suicide pact.

  82. iran shutting down for a couple of months and you're buying into that..i want you at the poker table..they are rope a doping us..they want more can't be serious..

    Hornts nest..let them nuke Irael as THEY HAVE SWORN TO DO and what do you think you'll get a sno-cone?

  83. Our president has both houses of Cogress and initially an overwhelming amount of support from the American people.

    He's lost contol of Congress, the support of the people, is LOSING the war. He lad all the levers of power a president will ever have, INCLUDING AN ATTACK ON OUR OWN SOIL and yet he can't get the job done IN ONE COUNTRY. WE DO NOT HAVE A MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. we have put our own soldier in prison for making the enemy wear panties on their heads and form a skin pile. As they say in the airline industry..all flap and no throttle.

  84. You may be right, habu. I'm just going with my gut--that the whole frigging anti-American chunk of the world is balls-out trying to turn this war into an attempt by the Hegemon to assert Pax Americana. Tho this is the purest horseshit, it is a meme that can make the victory we are after, that much harder to gain. If there is anything to what I just said, then it means to fight a limited war with the objective of driving the jihad back underground--as per the last 1,400 years of anti-jihad strategy.

    If we're gonna finish it once and for all, we're gonna have to take the USA first--martial law.

  85. got errands ..good toasty debate..I still love you Rufus.

  86. As to calling on our French friends for help, who did that? Why, Mr. Bush, of course. And what was the latest French gift to its American friends: The Franco-American UNSC Resolution 1701, if you ignore what it has been doing to help Iran over the past two weeks.

    As to calling on the UN for help, who did that? Why, Mr. Bush did that. And what has the United States gotten in return? Nothing but one embarrassment and humiliation after another. In fact, our alleged arch enemy Mr. Ahmadinejad will be welcomed to New York City (F911ing New York City!) to the acclaim of the UN.

    Someone needs to tell NATO Commander, General Jones that things are going swimmingly in Afghanistan; he has not gotten the message, if his statements to the contrary last week are any indication.

    The question is not whether Anbar is lost; rather, when was it won. Arguing that it is a den of dysfunctionality is no excuse for failure. Most of Europe was once run by a cadre of psychopathic kleptomaniacs. We managed to get the job done there. Ditto the invincible Empire of Japan. Of course, having a plan and the will to win made the difference.

    Mr. Bush is the President of the United States, serving at the will of the people of the United States. He is not the United States and, therefore, unentitled to the patriotic loyalty any American. Such loyalty would be idolatry, something alien to Americanism, and precisely an antipodean abuse of the Founder’s intentions.

  87. You can talk sense until you're blue in the face--do you think the left wing in this country is going to listen to a word of it? They are NOT on our side--yet they ARE Americans--with a vote, Goddamn 'em all to hell, they HAVE a VOTE.

  88. habu1; 11:08:29 AM

    re: Bobby Lee

    Mr. Lincoln had a goal: preservation of the Union, by any means.

    Mr. Lincoln wanted to win!

    Mr. Lincoln was willing to pay the price of victory, including, tragically, his life.

  89. Allen, if GWB blew the "quick war", he had enormous help from JFingKerry's 2004 presidential campaign.

    Another thing that Iran sees is a US economy that has grown 3 trillion, or nearly a third, since 911. It's not like we're falling apart. It's not like US will be taken down by anything other than lack of long-term commitment.

  90. habu said:

    WE DO NOT HAVE A MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. we have put our own soldier in prison for making the enemy wear panties on their heads and form a skin pile.

    Well now Abu Grahib is under new management, and they are sort of old school. When they form a skin pile now, it involves rolling it off like the lid on a sardine can first.

  91. When was the last time the President publicly mentioned, much less complimented, our staunch friends in Iraq, the Kurds? I might add, Kurdistan being the only place in the G-d forsaken dung heap worth saving. Have the President or Mr. Rumsfeld or Dr. Rice ever gone to Kurdistan?

    Hey, about little Denmark. They have clamoring guys volunteering for service in Iraq. When have you heard the President publicly thank the Danes for their friendship and courage? Yeah, I didn’t think so. What you did hear during the Great Islamic Cartoon War of 2005 was the administration criticizing those insensitive to Muslim feelings; indirectly including the Danes who were the epicenter of the controversy and are still being boycotted by Mr. Bush’s friends the Saudis, among others, contrary to the rules of the WTO.

    Somewhere along the line, Mr. Bush was not taught to reward his friends and punish his foes. He has never learned, it seems, that one’s adversaries will never value one’s friendship half so much as one’s head.

    Martial law! Now, that is a thought worth serious consideration. We might have started with about a year of that throughout Iraq. It seems to me that several departments within the American government might learn a lesson from some tough love, as well.

  92. Musharraf is going to die or be overthrown, probably much sooner than latter, that being the nature of Pakistan. We better have a plan for that eventuality. Does anyone thing we do?

  93. ..returning for a moment to the Anbar province being an area of Wisirisatian composition ....then why not bomb it to rubble? There must be at minimum mud brick homes, hiding places, ie an enemy sanctuary we can't take with armor or don't you deny the enemy ANY sanctary? or do you just say well Anbar we can't go there with troops too many might get killed...then jeez can't we srafe or bomb it to sand?

    To prosecute this war in the antisceptic fashion it's being done is to spit on the graves of those brave men and women who gave everything since 1776.

    it's relatively easy to see that our enemy doesn't fear us. We ask why and the answer comes back because martyrdom is what they seek. well we can deny that with some squeeling pigs nad bullets coated with pig grease...but NOOOO can't do that why we might hurt Islams feelings...well I'll tell ya if we start taking their dead to pig farms and letting then eat the dead the word WILL SPREAD that paradise ain't in anyones future.
    It's worked before with great effect against Islam....but no another self imposed constraint that gives full advantage to our many stateside mothers and wives would object if you told them that if we used pig greased bullets their sons or daughters might still be alive? Hell they be buying lard for the Army by the ton.

  94. Rufus, site all the polls you care to. as i've already pointed out he's had BOTH HOUSES OF CONGRESS and initially an overwhelming amount of SUPPORT from the American people..
    That's evaporated, the party has fissures if not fractures in it and the President can'i ID friend or foe; ie Danes and Kurds(HT Allen)

  95. martial law?
    why would that be necessary? we've always had war protests. we lock 'em up if they get too rowdy..if they get real ,real,real rowdy and start bombing buildings etc. then guys like vigilantes kill them..then we'd get martial law, but it too would not last forever. Lincoln suspended writs, did what he had to do .... either Islam with the bomb is a gave threat or it is not.
    Three trillion economy.. good stuff but they see an army they can run out of town..(see Anbar,a town too tough to tame) really think he's not gonna get assasssinated in a country with a long and distinguihed history of don't think India won't nuke 'em if they even shine up the bomb a teenie bit?

  96. Maybe we can hook Musharraf up with the Cuban doctors who made Castro immortal.

  97. Rufus...we should have hanged those 22 .. but nooo we court martial our troops who were most likely following "suggestions" fro higher ups who of course walked.
    But what's a little jail time to a high school grad when you can save a colonel or general with a verbal repremand at cocktails in the green zone?

  98. Our Congress has, by bipartisan manipulation, managed to fix districts to the advantage of incumbents. Again, using a bipartisan approach approved by the President, McCain-Feingold cripples free electioneering, again to the advantage of incumbents. So, if the Republicans maintain their majority that should come as no surprise.

    However, what does America, as opposed to Republicans, gain from such a victory? Does America get lasting victories in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran? Will America's border with Mexico be secure from massive illegal trespass? Will America's northern and southern borders be secure from terrorist infiltration? Will apparent Muslims be profiled at airports instead of Mr. Amis's eight year-old daughter? Will the President veto a single pork laden bill? Will the Armed Forces budget increase to garner the manpower needed for the "Long War?"

  99. Just for old time's sake, the Belmont Club is missing one heck of a debate!

  100. my G-d we even listen to an organization that has Cuba on the Human Rights Committee and is letting Syria guarantee the lebanese border ...we're insane.

  101. teresita,

    re: the immortal Fidel

    Comrade Castro had all his body parts. If the past is predicate, Mr. Musharraf will not be so fortunate.

  102. Wes, let's get THAT bunch into the committee chairmanships, speaker, and majority leader positions! THAT'll fix all these issues!

  103. rufus,

    re: Committee Chairmen

    Have you seen pictures of that lot lately? Examples of the wonders of the Egyptian embalmers' art. We are talking UGLY!

    Hell, I had forgetten whether half them were still with us. From the looks of things, I still wonder.

  104. They have large staffs of Red Guards chomping at the bit--even if they themselves are off in space.

  105. war is not a game,politics is a game.
    in war life's dreams are ended,families permanently tramatized, bodies blown up so badly you can't even tell if it was a human.
    you don't do that unless you intend on WINNING,WINNING USING ALL YOUR MIGHT and DESTROYING the ememy. I was born Aril 14, 1948 and we haven't won a war in my lifetime. Not Korea,not Vietnam, not now. if you want to argue Desert Storm go ahead, but there is where we are now once again. In none of those wars was it necessary to draw or lose, but life became to dear and peace too sweet so that we allowed Lillputian ties to bind us. Roosevelt and Marshall sold out at Yalta and we are now selling out to the UN and a New World Order.

  106. Look, I am not lusting in my heart for the triumphal return of the Democrats. But, neither the President nor his party majority has done much since the halcyon days of March 2003 to warm the cockles of my heart.

    Asking me to support either is akin to asking if I would prefer to bathe in a warm tub of puke or shit.

    How are we going to get some real leadership?

    Can the Muslims physically conquer the United States? No, not anytime soon. But a long war works to their advantage. No defense remains forever inviolate. Therefore, the longer this goes on, the better the chances of a patient band of terrorists visiting death and destruction on the homeland.

  107. Alcee Hastings, John Dingell, Charlie Rangell, John Conyers, Nancy Pelosi, and John Murtha.
    Those are the districts where your internal strife will begin. The divide in this country is 47% right,47%left and a swing in the middle 6%.. but the left has a dedicated cadre of socialist and communist, with a smattering of anarchist leading the part. The Republicans for the most part are still all in the Social Register, with a Newt here and a Haley Barbour there...(Newt/Barbour ticket)....but another Democratic defeat (which I will work for) will send some of the activists over the hill right into the reticles of the vigilantes ... oh brother

  108. Got a turn-around going in the Supreme Court. Got a turnaround going in the UN (relative to under Clinton). Got the global economy cookin'. Fighting the assh*les on their own ground. Got a lot of the incentives restored to the tax code. Big things all.

  109. but no, the sumbitch ain't been by to wash my truck, mow the yard, or get me onto the Bowflex. So, OUT wif his ass.

  110. Rufus,'it's a game.

    You scratch my back , I'll scratch yours pork here, I'll pork there..we'll all use the Congressional Post office as a money laundering device. I'll get blow jobs from interns while discussing war policy on the phone, Wilbur MIlls and the Tidal Basin Bombshell, Gary Hart and Monkey Business with Donna Rice, FDR and his secretary, JFK and Judith Extner and the's a game Rufus...a huge power tripp'in ego blow'in party.

  111. yeah Buddy that Kelo case was a sure victory for a "turned" court.

  112. There's a few out of the 535 who aren't scuzz. Let's back them.

  113. Don't you think Kelo will be re-visted?

  114. "Turned" is not the same thing as "turning", anyway.

  115. Oil @ 65+ and falling, gold just went below $600. World big-money dialing down the fear.

  116. This morning’s discussion proves, I think, the rightness of Jonah Goldberg’s sorrowful complaint: for well being, America needs two responsible parties.

    What I would give to have guys like Sam Nunn still around to make this election substantive, rather than a vote against Nancy Pelosi and company.

  117. don't get me wrong, I'll end up voting straight republican but if I'm a Repulican on the Hill I'm given the president an earfull...why..cause he's earned it...he's had the time , he's had the tools, he's had the people.
    He's also spent more money on social welfare programs than any President in history and vetoed a total of ONE bill.
    And still there's the spectre of a lost Iraq or more likely a Korean style protracted stay of 30-40 years and a pending pre or post election nuclear drop on Iran.
    And if you think I'm animated now IF he doesn't attack that spoke on the axis of evil wheel, I'll really think he's a poor president., and pooh on him.

  118. Rufus thing is immutable...NOTHING IS CONSTANT BUT CHANGE.

  119. buddy,

    Has anyone here complained of the economy?

    Hey, I am glad of the indicators you cite.

    I also know that nineteen determined, undetected Muslims can wipe out about one trillion in wealth in 17 minutes.

    Unlike Jay Rockefeller, I do not believe Iraq would be better off with Saddam back. That said, I do not believe the United States is better off with the status quo.

    Wherever American boots step, America must prevail. If not, stay home.

  120. Allen said in part:
    Can the Muslims physically conquer the United States? No, not anytime soon.
    i fully agree but the question is have they already FORCED a change in the way the entire world functions and have they had an immense impact on the United States.....the unalloyed answer is YES.

  121. FOLKS...step right up and spin the big wheel of opinion ..thta's what we do here at the Elephant Bar so pass the word.
    Just send $10.00 to "Peace in Our Time" The Elephant Club, Wherever USA or Planet Earth.

    Women's opinions are limit.

  122. We have an army astride the global fuel tank, and due to the unending calls to leave from the USA itself, are not being seriously accused of 'wanting to have an army astride the global fuel tank'.

    Pretty damned adroit, from that point-of-view.

  123. lightning storm--RAIN--gotta sign off and go whoop around in it--

  124. Discussion schedule:

    2:00-3:00 proper soil ph for growing good tasting zuchinni.

  125. buddy,

    You asked earlier what might "we" (I'm guessing Habu and me) do?

    For starters in Iraq, with or without a civil war, I would reinforce the Kurds to the max.

    To meet the threat posed by civil war,

    1) I would violently secure the region containing the northern petroleum/gas fields with massive force, creating permanent American bases in the process. Those members of the Iraqi army and police swearing fidelity to the Kurdish regime would be permitted entrance into Kurdistan.

    2) Thereafter, the Kurds would be brought in to establish the system of governance that seems to work so well for them.

    3) The Sunni and Shi'a would be permitted to murder themselves without interference.

    4) Turkey, Iran, Syria, Sunni, and Shi'a would be told, "Mess with Kurdistan at your peril."

    5) Any unlawful combatants found by us within the boundaries of our jurisdiction, under the terms of the Geneva Convention, would be summarily executed by firing squad.

  126. OK ...

    Zucchini is one of the easiest vegetables to cultivate in a temperate climate. As such, zucchini has a reputation among home gardeners for overwhelming production, and a common type of joke among home growers revolves around creative ways of giving away unwanted zucchini to people who already have been given more than they can use.

    so who can tell me what the proper ph is best for this plant?

  127. trish,

    re: occupiers

    Unless I have missed something, we are still in Iraq in force after 3 1/2 years. That would make us occupiers, reluctant or not. That being the reality, we might consider making something of ourselves than laughing stocks.

  128. we interrupt our discussion on for a brief answer....
    I agree with Allen on the points he made, adding this:

    More desalinization plants in order to grow more Zucchini.

    "Soldier what did you do in Iraq?" (circa 2018) "Sir I guarded one of the largest patches of Zucchini in the Anbar region. I got this campaign ribbon with Zucchini cluster"

  129. Trish,
    I love your point. It couldn't be more true if Lincoln had made it an addendum to the G-burg Address'

    But whats your take on zuchinni?
    I like mine in the garbage can.

  130. Rufus,
    I quit watching TV or reading hte paper years ago. I get my info directly from a tooth implant which picks up signals from the Mothership.
    I gave up proofreading and typing shortly therafter.

  131. 2164th, you may not realize what a fine thing you have done by starting this blog. Your "anchor" posts are excellent, first-quality, entirely on their own. Your blog is outstanding, far more than simply a springboard for comments. Congratulations.

  132. Exxon,
    Put a Zuccini in your tank!


    Don't be a weenie power it with Zuccini.

  133. trish,

    re: payoff

    Great point!

    As with so much else, someone wasn't thinking. Gets you thinking about where all that Federal tax money goes, doesn't it?

    I like the idea of flooding Afghanistan with American boots. Whereupon, we tell the General/President that hot pursuit is the order of the day. When the Taliban insolently cross the border from Pakistan, we then indoctrinate the good tribesmen of "War-is-where-we-stand" in the finer points of shock and awe.

    It is never too late to do the right thing, if you bring flowers.

  134. That's the Mothership from the galaxy "Nos Pellch Ecker".

  135. No, no, no Habu - don't throw it away!

    Zuccini for non-fans is: slice, dip slices first in beaten egg, then "bread" slices by dipping in a well-seasoned cornmeal mix, fry and eat while hot. Yum!

  136. I also know that nineteen determined, undetected Muslims can wipe out about one trillion in wealth in 17 minutes.

    The price of Gold has gone nowhere but up in the last five years.

  137. hit 700 a few months ago, back to 600 now.

  138. gerry,
    now that I could eat. in fact it sounds great.

    i was first thinking of some type of Vienna sausage/hoseradish puree for a dip with raw zuchinni but I think that would work better with CALAMARI..but that's for another day......back to wowa talk

  139. gold is down? hot damn maybe now i can afford that bling bling tooth i been eye'n

  140. trish,

    re: occupation

    I am not arguing law; I am speaking to attitude, which you seem to be doing as well.

    Whatever went before is done. Today is today. It is for the administration to make the best of it and the same old song and dance isn't likely to take it very far.

    If the administration can hold Iraq until 2008, circumstances and persuasion might convince the public of the strategic importance of our presence there.

    While the Democrats will promise their radicals anything, they will not deliver the goods. Moreover, a Democrat administration needn't fear; like NAFTA, they can count on the Republicans to come through. A Democrat strong on national defense, and there are some, can count on Republican votes everytime.

    I continue to believe that the US will be in Iraq for a very long time, indeed.

  141. From Yoni

    Palestinian Games = Dead Jews
    Sep. 10, 2006 23:04 | Updated Sep. 11, 2006 17:04 Abbas will dissolve Hamas-led government in 48 hours By KHALED ABU TOAMEH AND AP
    Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said in statement that his Fatah party and ruling Hamas party have agreed to form a coalition government within days.

    Abbas will dissolve the Hamas-led government within 48 hours, Fatah's Nabil Abu Rdeneh said on Monday.

    "The continuous efforts to form a national unity government have ended successfully with the announcement of a political program for this government," Abbas said in a statement to Palestinian television and the Palestinians' official WAFA news agency.

    "Efforts in the next few days will continue to complete the formation of the national unity government," the statement said.

    Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh and Abbas had reached an agreement on the main principles in forming such a government said Ahmed Yosef, Haniyeh's political advisor.

    Sep. 10, 2006 19:12 | Updated Sep. 10, 2006 19:17
    Poll: More Palestinians support terrror

    The latest public opinion poll in the Palestinian Authority territories shows that some 61 percent of Palestinians support "military operations" inside Israel compared with only 32% who reject such attacks.

    The poll, conducted by the Center for Opinion Polls and Survey Studies at An-Najah University in Nablus, covered some 1,360 Palestinians whose age group is above 18. Its margin of error is about 3%.

    Although the center did not specify the nature of the "military operations," many Palestinians interpret the term as a reference to suicide bombings inside Israeli cities.

    This is the first poll in several years that shows growing support among Palestinians for launching terror attacks inside Israel. The results reflect an increased trend of radicalism among the Palestinian public.

    Previous polls conducted by different Palestinian organizations showed that a majority of Palestinians would like to see such attacks restricted only to the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

    The latest poll, too, indicated that over 62% of the Palestinians support concentrating the "resistance" within these territories.

  142. Allen,
    I think you're correct in saying that we'll be Iraq a long's a new Korea...tripwire stuff...
    which means that sauerkraut on hotdogs is out and kimchee is in.

  143. habu,

    re: new Korea

    Only if the US stands for a nuclear Iran.

    Otherwise it is a great location for keeping a handle on things in the region.

    Most importantly is control of the Straight, with the power that gives the US over China and the EU.
    An American leader perceived as willing to use this clout will be taken seriously, as is Iran, come to think of it.

  144. rufus said...
    Oh, another Ethanol Refinery opened, today. There are 43 more under construction
    San Fransisco (Reuters)
    The 9th Circuit Court has just granted rights to all "under construction" Ethanol Refineries to the "NATIONAL HELIOTROPIC FOUNDATION" to build "suiteable sanctuaries" for nurturing all heliotropic plantlife not to be harvested for energy purposes. This was done using the Kelo decision recently passed by the Supreme Court.
    NHF spokesperson Lith Green said,"It is in the interest of mankind that we sanctuary lands for plantlife seeking the suns energy"
    In a related case brought by Exxon Corp the court ruled that while it dispised Exxon it had no choice but to agree with their position that corn should be added to the endangered spieces list.

  145. OK..

    The final tally is in and it looks like Zuccini will be added to the Elephant Bars "Vos hert zikh mit di zakhn?"

    Our new "Knock 'em back and nosh kiosk" will open on schedule...Mazel Tov

  146. Buddy,
    You're go'in on the National Helitropism's Enemies List...looks like no melonoma for you kiddo

  147. While one can never predict with any certainty what terrorists will do, it will be interesting to see what Iran does for the next two months. My feeling is nothing even remotely provocative will come from her proxies.

    However, if the Republicans maintain control of the government, a rash of attempted terrorist actions might follow closely the election. The newly reformed government of the Palestinians may take up the Arafatian mantle of intifada.

    It would not be shocking for American and Iraqi intelligence to discover the meddling of Iran inside Iraq greater than thought, prior to the New Year.

  148. Gimme Mel Brooks over Mel Anoma, any day--

  149. Begs the question, would terror incidents help or hurt the Bush in November?

    Conventional wisdom never did make a consensus on the ObL tape of November 2004.

  150. Once upon a time, two decades ago at a law enforcement officers’ convention in Reno, a member of the posse learned in passing that 3% of the brothels earned 80% of the revenue.

    The very next afternoon during his presentation a profound thought intruded; whereupon, breaking with his prepared remarks he exclaimed, “Do you know that 3% of the criminal population commits 80% of the hardcore crime?”

    Soon, this revelation spread throughout the land. Prisons were built, professional criminals were locked away long-term, and everyone lived happily ever after.

    Suppose the same numbers hold true for terrorists, then, would 3% of 1% of the Muslim population be a manageable, sans the prisons?

  151. darn..we gotta have a nuke strike before mid terms or DR 'ul never let me live it down. I'll be buying him drinks from now til the Hillary administration.
    I look at it this way. It's gett'in close to mid terms. The 'pubs are gonna rub the 'crats out I'll have to go to Iran with a hate letter from Jane Fonda. You know like a refusal for her to appear at the launching of their first ICBM....damn, it's not look'in good

  152. OKOK.....before I said before the mid terms I thought about it being after the mid terms before I wrote it down that it was gonna be before the mid terms.
    Anyway those previous comments were made on a blog that isn't for comment plus I just sent Sandy Berger over to Wrethcards archieves to liberate those remarks. Very Democratic of me. I think I'll have a cigar ...Monica, hey Monica ..I need a -------and a cigar

  153. National Security & Defense

    Marines vs. Military-Industrial Complex
    by Robert Novak
    Posted Sep 11, 2006

    U.S. Navy's last two battleships appeared in December 2005 to have seen their final combat, on their way to being museum pieces. That's not necessarily so. A decision to be made on Capitol Hill this week will determine whether the USS Iowa and USS Wisconsin are ready for a possible naval confrontation in the Persian Gulf with Iran

  154. Allen...but what if 75% had a serious psychosis?

    "Results of the same poll stated that 75 percent of the Palestinian Arab population endorsed the October 3rd suicide/genocide bombing in the Maxim restaurant in Haifa, in which 21 Israeli men, women and children were murdered"

    Further proof of this is the following statement from that poll. "The majority of Palestinians believe military operations (including suicide bombings) against Israeli targets (including Israeli civilians) are a suitable response to Israeli occupation within the current political situation. Most Palestinians support military operations both inside Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory."

    'Suitable response' implies that a certain behavior will generate a certain outcome. Time and again, without fail, the outcome of Palestinian aggression has been loss of political ground as well as economic, territorial and human losses. Yet unlike any thinking and reasoning creatures, they illogically continue along the same self-destructive path. Even lab rats in a maze learn that if they touch an electrified portion of said maze, they must alter their path. Illogical and confused thinking, unchanged by repeated negative results, fits the aforementioned definition of the psychosis of schizophrenia.

  155. Buddy,
    if ewe and I were talking about mutton would you ask if I were on the lamb?

  156. The Iowa and the Wisconsin are two WWII weapons that that will never be improved upon for armor & damage control. They'd be ideal for coastal duty against swarm missile attack. Suitably armed with anti-missile weapons of course.

  157. Just de-mothballing those suckers oughtta stand Li'l Kim and Li'l Mamoud's scraggly-ass hairs on end. The big 16" rifles shoot tactical nukes, too. Bring 'em in after air suppresion, they just sit out there and nail targets, long-term, as long as it takes, with guided munitions.

  158. Been busy:
    Anybody think Stoutfellow's post is the most chilling read here?
    GWB and Peters think we can love em to death.
    Ours, maybe.
    Read Levin and his links:
    Petering Out Mark Levin
    I don't know very much about Ralph Peters.
    He occasionally writes an insightful column, but I never thought he deserved the kind praise that some truly outstanding thinkers/writers have received.
    Now I'm certain of it.
    Read this ,
    this ,
    and this .

  159. Thanks for Sharing Stoutfellow!
    (even if it is bad news)
    Good Link!

  160. What's really amazing is he was on Ingraham's show before I read Levin, and I had the exact same impression as American thinker does:
    During his interview with Ms. Ingraham, Peters held up Indonesia “the world’s most populous Muslim country” as a paragon of moderate Islam. This is the same Indonesia that in the mid-1960s, Sukarno fatwa in hand, waged a murderous jihad against its own Chinese non-Muslim population which killed at least 100,000 ethnic Chinese. In the 1980s a frankly genocidal jihad was waged by the Indonesian government against the Christians of East Timor, leaving hundreds of thousands dead. For at least the past decade, there have been intermittent Indonesian jihadist pogroms against the Christians of the Moluccas which have also killed thousands.

    The current Indonesian government released the jihadist leader Bashir after a trivial sentence despite his role in the Bali bombings. As MEMRI reports, this popular Muslim thug wants Indonesia to become, officially, a theocratic “Allah-cracy”. Moreover, during a recent state sanctioned visit to Indonesia, Iranian President Ahmadinejad was welcomed by throngs of adoring Muslim Indonesian college students.

  161. Wir bin alle Stockholmers ist.

    (Please correct, Allen: Its been 30 years!)

  162. Peters comparison of jihad terrorists and American soldiers in this thoughtless essay is dangerously unhinged—about as unhinged as the crude innuendos in his New York Post piece ,
    which the Council on American-Islamic Relations enjoyed enough to include in its “American Muslim New Briefs” of 9/8/06.
    Andrew G. Bostom is the author of The Legacy of Jihad .

  163. Carthage and second and third bites of the apple.

    Fairy tales can come true.

  164. I will be careful not to long on oil when the announcement of the American withdrawal from Iraq is made.

  165. As long as we're on the inverse power law, there would be 80% less problem in seeing proper courses of action, if more than 20% of the media was reporting fair and balanced.

  166. buddy larsen said:

    Just de-mothballing those suckers oughtta stand Li'l Kim and Li'l Mamoud's scraggly-ass hairs on end.

    If a BB takes a round like the Israeli boat did in the Second Lebanese War (the one that sent it packing), the CO just has 'em call away sweepers on the 1MC, cuz maybe a little dirt got knocked loose off the overheads.

  167. Five years after 9-11-01.
    The number of flags flying in the neighborhood is down about 95%, from my observations.

    This in an AZ Republican "stronghold".

    AZ 8 will be lost to the Republicans, the gay Republican Congressman is leaving. The folk there seem to be rejecting Mr Rove's manipulations. Is that counted in your 6 seats, rufus?

    Mr Diem wanted the US to follow his lead in 'Nam, much like Mr Maliki desires in Iraq. Both were held up by US as "democrats", at some point in their relationships with US.
    Any bets on a similar fate for Mr Maliki?

    Each day that passes Iran's cascades continue to operate. The IAEA is still locked out of the known nuclear sites, let alone the "unknown" sites. Iran will follow Pakistan into the nuclear club. Pakistan's nukes were also "unacceptable" once upon a time.

    The Russians and Chinese may endorse a UN "travel ban" sanction placed upon Mr Abracadaba and his cohort.
    That'll really impress him while he's on the beach in Havana.

  168. trish,

    re: what are the odds

    I don't know.

    What I know is that since 1979, America constantly has had to deal with Iran and/or Iraq.

    As Whit reports, just today the Gulf States were threatened.

    Iran, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia hold the life's blood of the world.

    Control of the Straight of Hormuz gives the holder power over both friends and foes.

    The US has a major presence in Germany, UK, Korea, Japan, and Iraq. Why even Vietnam has invited us back. See a pattern?

    If you look closely, you will the US reluctant to cede control of territory once taken.

  169. rufus,

    re: "BTW, the Paki's completely sand-bagged the CIA, the IAEA, the DOD, and the U.S. Dept. of State."

    There has been a lot of that. It's not comforting, especially since some of the same folk are still in management.

    Other nations going nuclear on Mr. Clinton's watch: North Korea and India. Someone should do a documentary about that.

  170. Most of the fools and fabricators are Lefties, but there are plenty on the Right, and the Republican Party has an abundance of them. Indeed, some of them sit at the right hand of the president. Karen Hughes, one of W’s closest friends and advisers, permitted herself this bit of politically correct appeasement-speak last December 19th, apologizing to our enemies on al Jazeera:

    “The U.S. acknowledged [after] the events of September 11 that our policies might have created feelings of frustration and hatred, [causing those individuals] to board those airplanes, [fly them into the twin towers], and kill people. We want to change these circumstances, and this is what we are doing today…”
    The day they killed Barbara Olson

  171. Karen is close to CAIR type muzzies, you know.

  172. More scholarships for Saudis!

  173. To see how the non-PC investigation of the assassination of a “radical”, “conservative”, “fascistic” Rabbi in 1990 might have helped prevent 911, see

    NYPD Detective Breaks His Silence on Kahane and the WTC

    “At the time, the theory that Kahane’s murder had been part of a terror conspiracy was discounted by federal investigators.”

    “Molleli found and closely examined boxes of notebooks and other papers written in Arabic, complete with diagrams that revealed the existence of a terrorist cell operating in the New Jersey – New York area.”

    “The evidence was quickly removed to the offices of the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) and was largely ignored until the 1993 terror attack on the Twin Towers.”

    “Nuseir continued to manage the affairs of the al-Qaeda terror cell that continued to operate in the U.S. and on September 11, 2001 succeeded in completing the job it attempted in 1993 -- the destruction of the World Trade Center.”

    Hey, Rufus, there is that Federal stupidity again.

    And, remember, Rabbi Kahane was killed during the Bush I watch. He was roundly hated by James A. Baker III, among other favorites of the Bush I administration.

  174. Brief early evening SUMMATION for those just com'in through the doors of the Elephant Club..first business email a friend about the free drinks and new kiosk of free food: OK SUMMATION time ...

    Rufus,Buddya,DR,Allen and Habu initiated lively discussion on the merits/demerits of the current wowa situation. Teresita and Trish joined in the discussion also.
    Everyone agreed with Habu.

    Dick got our daily veggie question answer correct about Zuccini.
    Gerry added a nice compliment to Whit and 2164 for keeping the doors open while he also came in with a great recipe. Trish also provided a quick and handy Zuccini nosh.
    habu then took a nap and upon waking found Doug at the Bar once again in agreement with habu.
    Whit pointed out that a draft was too unsettling so we closed a few windows...
    P.S. habu continued to misspell words and use improper syntax but his third grade teacher is dead so it's too late to get help.
    Tomorrows veggie choice willbe up to Buddy to choose. apologies to anyone I failed to include, just get a free free drink on me.

  175. Gotta Shoot them Conservatives in the back 'Rat: This ain't Ronnie's Party No More

    The front-runner in the Republican primary, according to the most recent poll, is Randy Graf, a former professional golfer and state lawmaker who mounted a strong challenge against Mr. Kolbe in 2004. Mr. Graf, a supporter of the Minuteman Project, a civilian border patrol group, has campaigned on a pledge to ensure that illegal immigrants have no path to citizenship and that the border will be further secured.

    But so concerned are national Republicans about Mr. Graf, who once sponsored a bill to let patrons carry guns into bars and restaurants (it did not pass), that they have taken the rare step of spending more than $200,000 on advertising endorsing the more moderate Steve Huffman, also a former state representative.

  176. Starling says he'll take me up on my invite for a Free Drink:
    Tater's Buyin.

  177. Rabbi Kahane was against the much heralded but never finished "Piss" plan. Seems the Rabbi considered Israel's Arab citizens as future jihadists.

  178. Well, rufus, here is the chronology of US being "blindsided"

    1965: Pakistani nuclear research reactor at Parr, Rawalpindi, starts functioning.

    1968: Nonproliferation Treaty completed. Pakistan refuse to sign.
    1974: India tests a device of up to 15 kilotons and calls the test a ``peaceful nuclear explosion.'' Pakistani Prime minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto tells meeting of Pakistan's top scientists of intention to develop nuclear arms.
    1979 -- The United States cut off aid to Pakistan under section 669 of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 FAA) after it was learned that Pakistan had secretly begun construction of a uranium enrichment facility.
    Early 1980's--Multiple reports that Pakistan obtained a pre-tested, atomic bomb design from China.

    Early 1980's--Multiple reports that Pakistan obtained bomb-grade enriched uranium from China.

    1980--U.S. Nuclear Export Control Violation: Reexport via Canada (components of inverters used in gas centrifuge enrichment activities).

    1981--U.S. Nuclear Export Control Violation: New York, zirconium (nuclear fuel cladding material).

    1981--AP story cites contents of reported US State Department cable stating `We have strong reason to believe that Pakistan is seeking to develop a nuclear explosives capability * * * Pakistan is conducting a program for the design and development of a triggering package for nuclear explosive devices.'

    1981--Publication of book, Islamic Bomb, citing recent Pakistani efforts to construct a nuclear test site.
    1983--Declassified US government assessment concludes that `There is unambiguous evidence that Pakistan is actively pursuing a nuclear weapons development program * * * We believe the ultimate application of the enriched uranium produced at Kahuta, which is unsafeguarded, is clearly nuclear weapons.'

    1984--President Zia states that Pakistan has acquired a `very modest' uranium enrichment capability for `nothing but peaceful purposes.'

    1984--President Reagan reportedly warns Pakistan of `grave consequences' if it enriches uranium above 5%.
    1985--ABC News reports that US believes Pakistan has `successfully tested' a `firing mechanism' of an atomic bomb by means of a non-nuclear explosion, and that US krytrons `have been acquired' by Pakistan.

    1985--U.S. Nuclear Export Control Violation: Texas, krytrons (nuclear weapon triggers).

    1985--U.S. Nuclear Export Control Violation: US cancelled license for export of flash x-ray camera to Pakistan (nuclear weapon diagnostic uses) because of proliferation concerns.

    1985/6--Media cites production of highly enriched, bomb-grade uranium in violation of a commitment to the US.

    1985 -- Pressler Amendment [section 620E(e) of the Foreign Assistance Act] requires a total cut-off of U.S. aid to Islamabad unless the president can certify that Pakistan does not possess a nuclear weapon, and that continued US aid will significantly decrease the probability of its developing one in the future.
    1986--Bob Woodward article in Washington Post cites alleged DIA report saying Pakistan `detonated a high explosive test device between Sept. 18 and Sept. 21 as part of its continuing efforts to build an implosion-type nuclear weapon;' says Pakistan has produced uranium enriched to a 93.5% level.

    1986--Press reports cite U.S. `Special National Intelligence Estimate' concluding that Pakistan had produced weapons-grade material.

    1986--Commenting on Pakistan's nuclear capability, General Zia tells interviewer, `It is our right to obtain the technology. And when we acquire this technology, the Islamic world will possess it with us.'
    1986--Declassified memo to then-Secretary of State Henry Kissinger states, `Despite strong U.S. concern, Pakistan continues to pursue a nuclear explosive capability * * * If operated at its nominal capacity, the Kahuta uranium enrichment plant could produce enough weapons-grade material to build several nuclear devices per year.'
    1987--U.S. Nuclear Export Control Violation: Pennsylvania, maraging steel & beryllium (used in centrifuge manufacture and bomb components).

    1987--London Financial Times reports US spy satellites have observed construction of second uranium enrichment plant in Pakistan.

    1987--Pakistan's leading nuclear scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan states in published interview that `what the CIA has been saying about our possessing the bomb is correct.'

    1987--West German official confirms that nuclear equipment recently seized on way to Pakistan was suitable for `at least 93% enrichment' of uranium; blueprints of uranium enrichment plant also seized in Switzerland.

    1987--U.S. Nuclear Export Control Violation: California, oscilloscopes, computer equipment (useful in nuclear weapon R&D).

    1987--According to photocopy of a reported German foreign ministry memo published in Paris in 1990, UK government official tells German counterpart on European nonproliferation working group that he was `convinced that Pakistan had `a few small' nuclear weapons.'

    1987 -- China concluded a deal with Pakistan to sell M-11 missiles and launchers.
    1988--President Reagan waives an aid cutoff for Pakistan due to an export control violation; in his formal certification, he confirmed that `material, equipment, or technology covered by that provision was to be used by Pakistan in the manufacture of a nuclear explosive device.'

    1988--Hedrick Smith article in New York Times reports US government sources believe Pakistan has produced enough highly enriched uranium for 4-6 bombs.

    1988--President Zia tells Carnegie Endowment delegation in interview that Pakistan has attained a nuclear capability `that is good enough to create an impression of deterrence.'
    1989--Multiple reports of Pakistan modifying US-supplied F-16 aircraft for nuclear delivery purposes; wind tunnel tests cited in document reportedly from West German intelligence service.

    1989--Test launch of Hatf-2 missile: Payload (500 kilograms) and range (300 kilometers) meets `nuclear-capable' standard under Missile Technology Control Regime.

    1989--CIA Director Webster tells Senate Governmental Affairs Committee hearing that `Clearly Pakistan is engaged in developing a nuclear capability.'
    1989--Reporting on a recent customs investigation, West German magazine Stern reports, `since the beginning of the eighties over 70 [West German] enterprises have supplied sensitive goods to enterprises which for years have been buying equipment for Pakistan's ambitious nuclear weapons program.'

    1989--Gerard Smith, former US diplomat and senior arms control authority, claims US has turned a `blind eye' to proliferation developments Pakistan in and Israel.

    1989--Senator Glenn delivers two lengthy statements addressing Pakistan's violations of its uranium enrichment commitment to the United States and the lack of progress on nonproliferation issues from Prime Minister Bhutto's democratically elected government after a year in office; Glenn concluded, `There simply must be a cost to non-compliance--when a solemn nuclear pledge is violated, the solution surely does not lie in voiding the pledge.'
    Spring 1990 -- Pakistan reportedly reacted to Indian Army war game maneuvers near its border by preparing to drop one of seven weapons from a specially configured C-130 cargo plane. [02 December 1992 NBC News report]
    1990--Dr. A.Q. Khan, father of Pakistan's bomb, receives `Man of the Nation Award.'
    October 1990 -- President Bush announced that he could no longer provide Congress with Pressler Amendment certification that Pakistan does not possess a nuclear weapon. Economic and military aid was duly terminated, though the Bush administration continued to permit a limited number of commercial military sales to Pakistan. Pakistan handled the cutoff with little public rancor and committed itself to freezing the nuclear program in an attempt to placate the United States.
    01 December 1992 -- Senator Larry Pressler reportedly stated in a press interview that he had been told by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) that Pakistan had assembled seven weapons and could air drop one in a matter of hours [Dec. 1, 1992 NBC News broadcast].
    06 September 1997 -- Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif claims Pakistan possesses nuclear weapons, saying that: "Pakistan's nuclear capability is now an established fact. Whatever we have, we have a right to keep it...."


    28 May 1998: Pakistan detonates five nuclear devices. Pakistan claimed that the five nuclear tests measured up to 5.0 on the Richter scale, with a reported yield of up to 40 KT (equivalent TNT).

    30 May 1998 Pakistan tested one more nuclear warheads, with a yield of 12 kilotons, bringing the total number of claimed tests to six.

    Nuclear Timeline

    Many things occurred, rufus, but no one was "blindsided" unless they wanted to be.

  179. Sorry Rufus;

    A Harvard University initiated study showed that life expectancy was greatest in Hawaii and in last place Mississippi.

  180. Yeah, incompetent CIA only found 13 chances to take out Bin Laden during Clinton years.
    Then Condi demotes Clarke for being too concerned about Al Queda.

  181. Habu:
    No water Moccasins here!
    We kill all the Guamanian Tree Snakes we can find.

  182. DR..very nice piece of research on pakistan and being blindsided

    I think we all have the willies' about how inaccurate our intelligence people are gonna be on the iranian bomb

    An nuclear bomb willies are the worst kind

  183. Allen,
    I followed the Rabbi Kahane story and was somewhat familiar with the Rabbi's positions prior to his assassination.
    If my old failing memory is close on it I remember him being more prescient about ME events than a kook, which is how many tried to portray him.
    That the FBI was as irresponsible as it was in that is bad ..who had inherited J Edgars wardrobe at that time? I think he was a size 16.

  184. Doug,
    The Karen Hughes apologia I'd forgotten about. Mike Ladeen always seems to have a very good read on whats what and I was unaware barbara olsen was a close friend
    Seems like we've (clinton mostly,carter too)have done a good deal of apologizing for raising the worlds standard of living, defeating Communism, and building EuroDisney ( ok not all winners) but this apology crap is just that.
    Does anyone know the total amount of money we have simply given the world ..gotta be mega trillions and that doesn't even cover the Motown Sound or the original "blues" sounds from Mississippi Delta to Chicago style

  185. Doug,
    have they eaten all the native birds yet? i know that was a situation where a non indigineous species was introduced (aircrat wheel well) to Guam and stated some heavy depredation on the native birds.
    too bad to 'cause those birds were really good with a sweet/sour dip

  186. doug

    Yeah, incompetent CIA only found 13 chances to take out Bin Laden during Clinton years. Then Condi demotes Clarke for being too concerned about Al Queda.

    Gosh, if I said that back in the Belmont Club days, there would have been a shitstorm about "moral equivalence". But facts are facts. And if the Demos want to delete scenes from that ABC miniseries based on the 911 Commission Report that makes the Left look bad, it seems to me the problem is with the Left, not with the 911 Commission Report.

  187. There's still lot's o local birds, and the eatin's good.
    All varieties from throughout Polynesia and Asia.
    Most of the Mormons are already taken, tho.

  188. I don't know what time the second half of that ABC mini series on Clintons intel failures comes on but the Elephant Bar Giant plasma screen room is filling up fast. I'm sure participation will fall off significantly...I missed the first part and will miss the second, but SOme EB members said it was an OK show

  189. The Republicans have formed a circular firing squad, here, doug.
    Helped out by Mr Rove.

    Mr Graf may or may not be able to beat the Democrat, but his folk will stay home come November if the outsiders skew the primary to Mr Huffman.

    We are pretty animated that way out here. The Republicans have lost the Governor's office, and likely won't get it back in November.

    Mr McCain has come out against Mr Goldwater, to conservative.

    At the bar, afer dinner last night, all the ladies were disgusted with the 9-11 hoopla on TV. Since I was the only fella there I just listened.
    To a lady their feelings were that the New Yorkers and the MSM should "get over it". This in the heart of John Shadegg's District. He was considered for Tom DeLay's spot, for a while.

  190. I'm gonna straighten my mind out by watching M Moore's DOCUMENTARY.
    Highly regarded by Jimmah and the entire Democrat party, I'm told.
    Sides, that writer is an IRANIAN AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE!!!
    (on Larry Elder he said that would mean he should have 6 wives in Burkahs!)
    We like them Peaceful CAIR Muzzies much better.