COLLECTIVE MADNESS


“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."

Friday, June 08, 2007

BBC on 40th Anniversary of Attack on USS Liberty by Israel


Why did Israel attack USS Liberty?
By Raffi Berg
BBC News

For former US seaman Gary Brummett, the 40th anniversary of the 1967 Middle East war has stirred painful memories.

As a 21-year-old third class petty officer, Mr Brummett was serving on board the USS Liberty off the coast of Egypt on 8 June, when, without warning, the vessel came under fire, first from fighter planes, then torpedo boats.


Israel says its forces did not identify the ship as a US vessel
The attack, which lasted at least 40 minutes, resulted in the deaths of 34 of Mr Brummett's fellow crewmen, at least 170 injured and catastrophic damage to the ship.

Alarmingly, the assault had been carried out not by enemy forces, but by the US' closest regional ally, Israel.

Israel insists it mistook the Liberty for a hostile Egyptian ship, the El Quseir, and numerous US and Israeli inquiries have concluded the attack was accidental.

But for Mr Brummett and a growing body of conspiracy theorists, the authorities are guilty of a cover-up.

"I have more trouble with it today than when it happened because I know more of the facts about what was going on," said Mr Brummett.

"There's been an egregious wrong done here, there's been an extreme number of lies told to the American people and the American people do not know the truth about what happened."

'Sitting duck'

The attack on the Liberty - the gravest incident in the history of US-Israeli relations - has been a source of controversy for the past four decades.

Claim and counter-claim as to what happened have been fought out in every corner of the media, with the advent of the internet helping to reinvigorate the debate.

Israel's supporters say the incident is merely being used as a tool by critics to malign the Jewish state, while accusers say the attack was a war crime which has never come to light.

According to Israel, the incident was a tragic case of friendly fire occurring in the fog of war.

It says it believed the ship had been bombarding Israeli forces fighting in the Sinai, and that its pilots did not see any US flags (survivors say there were three) on the vessel before they opened fire.

Sceptics however claim the attack was premeditated and that the truth has been suppressed. The assertion of a cover-up was lent weight by a 2003 independent commission of inquiry which reported that the attack on the Liberty "remains the only serious naval incident that has never been thoroughly investigated by Congress".

Among the most popular theories as to why Israel would take such drastic action against its superpower ally is that the Liberty, a $40m state-of-the-art surveillance ship, was eavesdropping on an Israeli massacre of Egyptian prisoners of war.

Israel strongly denies its troops executed Egyptian POWs, saying those who died in an incident at that time were 250 armed Palestinian fighters killed in action.

Another is that the ship had learnt of secret Israeli plans to invade Syria's Golan Heights two days later and had to be destroyed.

'US collusion' theory

Perhaps the most sinister motive is that put forward by journalist Peter Hounam in his 2003 book "Operation Cyanide".

Mr Hounam claims secret elements within the US and Israeli governments colluded to bomb the ship and blame the attack on Egypt and their superpower ally, the Soviet Union, triggering massive retaliation which would ensure Israeli victory.

"The attack on the Liberty was pre-planned, perhaps from at least a year beforehand," Mr Hounam says.

"The Liberty was sent into a very dangerous situation, where it was, in my view, placed in a position to be attacked."

Mr Hounam says the intention was to sink the ship and kill everyone on board, but as the Liberty remained afloat the plan was aborted and has been hushed up ever since.

'Presidential order'

Successive US and Israeli inquiries, and the declassification of thousands of pieces of information, have done little to dampen suspicions.

One of the most powerful claims of a cover-up has come from retired US Navy lawyer Capt Ward Boston, counsel to the Navy Court of Inquiry into the incident conducted just days after the event.


Survivors want a Congressional investigation into the attack
Capt Boston says the court's original findings, which he signed, were changed afterwards by government lawyers.

He also claims the president of the court, Rear Adm Isaac Kidd, told him he was ordered by US President Lyndon Johnson and Defence Secretary Robert McNamara to conclude the attack was a case of mistaken identity.

However, Capt Boston's version of events - and the notion that what happened was anything more than a tragic accident - are disputed by numerous academics and authors who have investigated the incident.

"It was a series of blunders by both the United States and Israel that resulted in a terrible tragedy and nothing more," says Jay Cristol, a federal judge and author of the book The Liberty Incident.

"All the official reports came to the same conclusion.

"Unfortunately there are a number of people who are on the other side of the Arab-Israeli conflict who think this is a way to attack the otherwise very strong relationship between the US and Israel, and they keep stirring the pot.

'No evidence'


It is a view with which historian Michael B Oren, a senior fellow at the Shalem Center, a Jerusalem academic research institute, concurs.

"Many thousands of documents related to the Liberty have been declassified and in none of these documents will you find a scintilla of evidence to suggest any of these conspiracy theories are true," he says.

"The Golan one is the easiest to disprove because of where the Liberty was, not off the coast of Israel, but Egypt. Its listening devices weren't that powerful that they could listen in on communications in Tel Aviv.

"Moreover the Israelis were very upfront in telling the US that they planned to capture the Golan Heights and the Americans agreed to it.

"Regarding a massacre of Egyptian POWs, there's no evidence of that. And why would the Israelis try to cover up one atrocity by committing another?

He says the attack has remained a source of controversy because "it has all the ingredients of a good spy scandal. It involves espionage and it involves the Israelis, who are forever a focus of conspiracy theories.

"If I could prove the Liberty was attacked in a premeditated fashion, I would write it - it would be a great historical scoop - but the truth is far more mundane."



Here is the whole article by Michael B Oren Jewish Virtual Library which concludes:

...USS Liberty was a tragic error, and nothing more. In light of the new documents, it is now possible to reconstruct the chain of mishaps on the part of both sides that led to the unintended Israeli attack.

The incident began with the ill-conceived decision to send the Liberty to the crisis-torn Middle East, a mere half-mile beyond Egyptian waters, in an area not used by commercial shipping and which Nasser had declared off-limits to neutral vessels. The Americans did not accede to Chief of Staff Rabin's request for the identification of all U.S. ships in the area or Ambassador Harman's request for a strategic liaison between Israel and the Sixth Fleet. The Liberty's dispatchers, meanwhile, overrode naval orders to keep the ship in Spain, and then failed to inform the U.S. attaché in Tel Aviv of its presence near the war zone. These mistakes were compounded by the navy's communications system, which delayed by as much as two days orders to the Liberty to withdraw 100 miles from the coast.52 Even after it was hit, the Americans had difficulty locating the Liberty, the JCS placing it at "60-100 miles north of Egypt." If neither Castle, nor cinceur, nor even the President of the United States could know where the Liberty was, it seems unreasonable to expect that the Israelis, in the thick of battle, should have been able to locate it.

The Israelis, too, committed their own share of fateful errors, as the Yerushalmi report points out: The erroneous reports of bombardment at El-Arish, the failure to replace the Liberty's marker on the board after it had been cleared, the over-eagerness of naval commanders, and worst of all, Ensign Yifrah's miscalculation of the ship's speed. Though Yerushalmi's report suggested reasons for these errors - inflexible naval procedures, the inaccuracy of speed-measuring devices - one is still left with a sense of poor organization and sloppy execution. Moreover, there were breakdowns in communications between the Israeli navy and air force stemming from inadequate command structure and the immense pressures of a multi-front war. To these factors must be added Israel's general sensitivity about its coastal defenses, and the exhaustion of its pilots after four days of uninterrupted combat. Yet none of these amount to the kind of gross negligence of which the Israelis have been accused.

And then there were "bad breaks" that are unfortunately commonplace in war: The U.S. planes that were called back because of their nuclear payload (their mere presence might have warded off the torpedo boats); the Liberty's inability to signal the approaching Israeli boats, and the machine gunner who fired on them; and the smoke that hid the identities of both the attackers and the attacked.

All of these elements combined to create a tragic "friendly fire" incident of the kind that claimed the lives of at least fifty Israeli soldiers in the Six Day War, and caused 5,373 American casualties in Vietnam in 1967 alone.53 Obviously, these findings can do little to lessen the suffering of those American servicemen who were wounded in the incident, nor can they be expected to offer comfort to the families of the dead. But they should at least permit us to bring to a close what has for a generation remained one of the most painful chapters in the history of America's relationship with the State of Israel.

Michael B. Oren is a Senior Fellow at The Shalem Center in Jerusalem, and a Contributing Editor of Azure.


112 comments:

  1. ___Amicicide At Sea: Friendly Fire Incidents During WWII; Naval Opeations
    Defense Technical Information Center

    http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA278291 - DoD Document


    ___US Navy attacks 144 C-47s, downing 24, resulting in 318 casualties
    82nd Airborne: Operation Husky


    ___RAF attack off Cap d'Antifer
    HMS Britomart sunk
    HMS Hussar sunk
    HMS Salamander irreparably damaged
    HMS Jason minor damage
    Link


    ___June 17, 1968, US fighter aircraft attack
    USS Boston
    USS Edison
    USCGC Point Dume
    HMAS Hobart
    PCF-12
    PCF-19 sunk


    ___1943
    USS Iowa (battleship) attacked by USS William D. Porter (destroyer)
    President Franklin D. Roosevelt was aboard the USS Iowa at the time
    Link



    ___”This article does not blame anyone for the past. Rather, the charge to our present and future leaders is clear: We need a solution to this problem. Had alleviating fratricide been possible during this century, the effects would have been tremendous. If a conservative US fratricide estimate of ten percent is used for 20th-century conflicts, the following fratricide casualties result: 5000 killed and 23,000 wounded in World War I; 19,000 killed and 72,000 wounded in World War II, 5400 killed and 10,300 wounded in the Korean War, and 5800 killed and 36,500 wounded in Vietnam.”
    Realistically Dealing With Fraticide


    ___“The Ark Royal’s aircrew were thoroughly familiar with the Sheffield; the two ships had steamed thousands of miles together in company. Moreover Bismarck was five times the cruiser’s tonnage, was nearly 300 feet longer and had one funnel as opposed to the Sheffield’s two. It might seem impossible for the aircrew to fail to identify Sheffield but they only saw what they expected to see. (Kemp, 1995, p. 48)”

    ___“Thus, two destroyers and almost 600 men had been lost because of the appalling lack of communication between Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine commands exercising control of forces in a common area.” (p. 45)

    Analysis of Fratricide in United States Naval Surface and Submarine Forces in the Second World War
    http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA374561


    Whether any Israelis, Zionists, and/or Jews were involved in any of these incidents or the hundreds more of record remains unreported.

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  2. Just curious, how many other anniversaries involving friendly fire do the bloodthirsty Shylocks at the BBC celebrate?

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  3. If only the Medal of Honor awardee Captain of the Liberty were not so sure that it was not "friendly fire".

    The entire discussion in a nutshell.
    Who do you believe, the US MoH awardee Captain, the Naval officers who were not there, documents, or the attackers.

    I'll side with Captain and Crew, unless there is a preponderance of evidence otherwise. Which I've yet to have seen produced.

    Israel does what is in it's percieved best interests.
    Always has, always will.

    It often does not coincide with US interests. That's true enough.

    Given up the Golan, read the FOX News scroll. Mr Olmert is ready, land for peace.

    Doing what is right, for Israel.

    Gotta love him.

    Fallin' in step with the trendlines. Called it a couple months ago, when Baker-Hamilton was all the rage. Implementation right along the Plan, while publicly distancing the Administration from it.
    All in 120 days.
    Turning the Ship of State on a dime, while denying it. The Administration, the Media, and the loyal oppossition.

    The fix is in.

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  4. Doing the Hard Thing, Mr Olmert is going to save Israel's soul.

    The size of his cajones, his faith in doing the "right" thing, the Hard Thing.

    Just like Mr Bush wanted US to do.

    The bigots, vigilantes and xenophomes have stifled Mr Bush, with the help of organized Labor.

    What of Mr Olmert, will his march to redemption be stopped by those living in the past, whose minds are closed to the wonders of diversity.
    Or will he succeed, becoming the peacemaker, a man whose vison quest took him beyond the local, tribal concerns of the region, to real peace on earth.

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  5. I read both articles carefully. I have to give the benefit of the doubt to the Israelis. There are so many incidents of friendly fire in every war and the political risk of Israel intentionally attacking a US warship is absurd enough to raise extreme doubts. I can understand the US sailors being convinced that the attack was intentional. The Chinese were convinced we attacked their embassy in Serbia on purpose. There are Americans convinced the attack on the twin towers was some US and Israeli plot.
    War is hell.

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  6. OT-but Hillary has named Alcee Hastings as the co-chair of her national presidential campaign. har,har, damn if they don't always flock together.

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  7. HEILIGENDAMM, Germany (Associated Press) -- Russian President Vladimir Putin said Friday that U.S. missile defense interceptors could be located in Turkey, or even Iraq or on sea platforms, offering yet another alternative to an American plan for a missile shield in eastern Europe.

    "They could be placed in the south, in U.S. NATO allies such as Turkey, or even Iraq," Putin said at a news conference after the close of the Group of Eight summit. "They could also be placed on sea platforms."

    Putin's proposal on missile defense interceptors followed his surprise suggestion Thursday to President Bush to share use of the huge Soviet-era radar at Gabala in northeast Azerbaijan, now leased by Russia.

    Rice said Putin's offer of the radar in Azerbaijan caught the Bush administration off guard, but ...

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  8. ___USS Liberty

    Eleven investigations = Eleven acquittals

    But, who knows, if the twelfth investigative committee can be properly stacked, an adverse finding might yet be possible.

    The same morons who clamor for a Congressional investigation are the same imbeciles who claim Congress is bought and paid by the all-powerful Israeli lobby. Anti-Semites are illogically stupid souls. Parrot like, they do stay on message, however.

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  9. dRat

    Mr Olmert will need 24/7 police protection for the rest of his life. He will never be able to walk the streets of Israel alone. And moving to Costa aint gonna help him either.

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  10. Glad to see you back, Allen, obviously in fighting form.

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  11. "The same morons who clamor for a Congressional investigation are the same imbeciles who claim Congress is bought and paid by the all-powerful Israeli lobby."

    And then there are those who assert that Israeli foreign and defense policy are dictated by the NSC. In any event, Israel is just another foreign, special interest lobby among many. All-powerful, undoubtedly not.

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  12. I love the smell of cordite in the bar.

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  13. bobalharb said...
    "G. Gordon Liddy is interviewing a guy who says the data show, around the world, in our federal government, and in our states, you give the women the vote....government grows.

    Makes sense really.
    "
    ---
    Anybody care to find the thread where old Double Al calls Lugh and I Evil Backwards Trogdylytes for arguing same?

    Does "Double Al" stand for
    Dirty, Double Crossing Al, and he is just using Mo as a cover?
    Poor Mo.
    One more instance of villifying Muzzies.

    Then again, old Double Cross villified US!

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  14. Glad to see you back Trish.
    Obviously in Fighting Prim.

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  15. re: Olmert.
    Miller talked to a friend in France that lives in the same building as the Sarkozys.
    Says whole building love him, kid goes to school w/one of his.

    Both Britain and France have much LESS Trappings of Monarchy than DC:
    WTF is up w/THAT?

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  16. Miller Amnesty Plan:

    Immediate Amnesty for all those in the system for years waiting to get in.

    DC Plan:
    Illegals first,
    those in line will just have to wait.
    LONGER.

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  17. I stand for the right of women to vote, regardless :)

    ReplyDelete
  18. I even think Paris Hilton ought to be able to vote, a radical and irresponsible idea.

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  19. Gotta love it!

    "Screaming Hilton Sent Back to Jail!"

    Paris is screaming.

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  20. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  21. Sorry. Was gonna say that these high-impulse thermobaric weapons (HITs), can leave the fishes somewhat desensitized..

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  22. Judge Michael T. Sauer '08!
    He's da Man!
    Just ask Reverend Al
    of the Justice Brothers.

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  23. Actually, I think the judge was wrong to tack on some extra time. She didn't escape jail, she was let out by the sheriff. The judge should be pissed at him, if at anyone. I think the sheriff may have made the right decision, as the attorneys for Paris argued that the law is on their side in such a situation, and Paris has the firepower to sue the county if she has a stroke from withdrawals in jail. I have argued with my wife about this at length, and she is really pissed at me.

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  24. deuce,

    And a fine, "Good afternoon" to you, Sir!

    Cordite. Never leave home without it.

    ReplyDelete
  25. ___Medal of Honor recipient

    By definition, this is a man of valor. That said, I feel no moral obligation to take his advice on the weather, the stock market, or foreign affairs. Good try, but no cigar.

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  26. Re: “U.S. officials have argued against a major Turkish incursion into northern Iraq”

    Presumably, according to Dr. Rice, the minor rape of the territorial integrity of a dependent Iraq might be OK, as long as Turkey doesn’t insert too large a force for too long. Why does “dike” come to mind?

    TURKEY REPORTEDLY FIRING ARTILLERY ON KURDISH REBELS IN IRAQ

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  27. allen, old chap, you're back!

    Saying:
    "... no moral obligation to take his advice on the weather, the stock market, or foreign affairs. Good try, but no cigar."

    We are not discussing weather, stockmarket, or foreign affairs, none of those matters are on the Bar, at the moment.

    Just the attack, by hostile forces, on the USS Libery. The engagement where his actions merited the awarding of the MoH.

    Nothing more.

    Not his advise on stocks, business nor even religion.

    As I didn't say previously, welcome back. Cigars are bad for the health, amigo.

    Mr Olmert, mat, he's the man of the hour.

    No no-confidence vote, yet.
    It's been a year since the Hezzbollah War, he's still large and in charge. Steady at the wheel.

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  28. Get out the Barf Bags:
    Kyl up next on Hewitt.

    http://www2.krla870.com/listen/

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  29. No wonder Mr Putin thinks the US missle defense system should be in Turkey, or Iraq.

    Seems sensible, more in the line of proposed flight.

    Both secure US allies.

    Attached at the hip.

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  30. "Paris has the firepower to sue the county if she has a stroke from withdrawals in jail. I have argued with my wife about this at length, and she is really pissed at me.
    "
    ---
    You could stand in for Harry Reid!
    My Heart Bleeds, but my head does not stroke.

    Did you shed any tears for Paris, Double Cross?

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  31. Kyl is talking
    "two days, three days, whatever it takes"

    Knocks Reid for going back to Gonzo:

    I'm with REID!

    ReplyDelete
  32. Kyl at half speed might not sound drunk at half-speed, just half-assed.

    Love fast talkin lawyers.

    Half Speed = Full Ass.

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  33. Doug, it's simple. The judge is a
    BornAgainChristian and doesn't like her lifestyle. Besides, he lusts for her in his heart, and it rankles him.

    The judge was wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Cost Benefit:

    Fence isn't a Manhattan Project.

    In the 60's we went to the Moon.
    In 2007, we cannot build a fence.

    "300 miles is a LOT of Fence"

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  35. Just ask Reverend Al.
    ...but then Double Cross doesn't like religious folk!

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  36. Bush is for illegals if it costs us the country.

    Double Cross is for women even if we descend to feel good nanny state Socialist Hell.

    ISN'T THAT *SPECIAL?*

    ReplyDelete
  37. He mooshes he brain up at nite listening to "Late Night" that comes from the magic speaker guy beneath his felt pillowcase.
    During ads, he has wife treat him to warm milk and Swedish chocolates.

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  38. Kyl:
    Courts have ruled you gain rights the further from the border you've fled, and the longer you've stayed.

    We must SUBMIT TO THE COURTS.
    ...not that old, dead, Constitution.

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  39. Lindsay Graham and him have a new draft.

    Oh Goodie!

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  40. My hero
    Lindsey Graham
    Fuckhead.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Dhimmitude to Mo
    Dhimmitude to the Almighty Courts.

    Mo stands below the Almight Judiciary.

    ReplyDelete
  42. "What was there before dhimmitude, grandpa?"

    "Commitude."

    Ever on the verge of collapse we are. The Greeks told themselves this throughout their history.

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  43. The Medal of Honor has no more to do with the Liberty incident than my brand of cigars (at this writing, a Chateau Fuente gran reservo).

    Beneficial or no, some of the best men I have known (past and present) smoke(d) cigars. There is just something invigorating about a stiff belt of whiskey and the aromatic texture of a good cigar, in tandem. I guess it's one of those male things one understands or doesn’t (my wife and daughter, occasional aficionados, might disagree).

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  44. "The courts have ruled that the longer and more thoroughly you have violated out laws, the more rights you acquire."

    GREAT!

    ReplyDelete
  45. Mo is Great, Trish,
    The Supremes are...
    ...Supreme.

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  46. Roger Hedgecock got a call from a man that was sharing cigars in remembrance.

    The ones his son had in Iraq before he lost his life in Anbar.

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  47. Have you ever seen Steve Emerson's video, Trish?

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  48. Allen might know:
    Are those Wahhabi Madrassas going up all around the world by the Tens of thousands spreading Peace and Love,
    Allen?

    ReplyDelete
  49. 30,000 in Pakistan alone.
    What a warm feeling that is.
    Hitler never had it so good.

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  50. In Allen's first post, does he provide any proof most of them pilots were't Jooish Americans?

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  51. "Presumably, according to Dr. Rice, the minor rape of the territorial integrity of a dependent Iraq might be OK, as long as Turkey doesn’t insert too large a force for too long. Why does “dike” come to mind?"
    ---
    Don't let your mind be distracted by Rapes and Turkey Basters, Allen.
    Ms Rice has more degrees than us, and besides, she's a mean concert pianist.
    ...although I don't think she learned from Bo Didley.

    ReplyDelete
  52. W always get's a chuckle when she returns from one of her hundreds of flights abroad:
    Calls her "Flied Rice"
    Loves them nics.
    Whattaguy!

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  53. I know nothing about peace and love in madrassas, in their thousands or otherwise. I do know something about the Marine Corps specifically, and the Armed Forces generally.

    For instance, the United States has permanent basing rights in countries across the globe. Indeed, the basing rights in Belgium are so permanent that the United States still maintains tactical nuclear weapons there. For those who doubt, start by looking at the North Atlantic Treaty.

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  54. " Mexican consulates across the country are busily signing up illegal Mexicans for all the free government-funded health care that the consulates can find—that would be American- not Mexican-funded health care, mind you. “We have the right to health services,” an illegal Mexican in Santa Clarita, California, told the Los Angeles Times.

    This attitude of entitlement—not only among illegal aliens but also among legal Hispanic immigrants and their children—extends to the full array of welfare programs. In fact, welfare use actually increases between the second and third generation of Mexican-Americans—to 31 percent of all third-generation Mexican-American households.
    "
    ---
    Maybe Trish has a housekeeper?
    She's always absent from the immigration threads.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Taking Welfare most Americans once had too much pride to take.

    Great people, they are, solid, hardworking, nearly perfect folks.

    ...like Double Crosses conception of women.

    Speaking of Rapes.

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  56. Once old Double conceived a woman, he was smitten.

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  57. Well allen, the Medal of Honor was awarded for actions in the Med, when his ship was attacked by hostile forces. Both sea and air force was used against the USS Liberty, while she flew the Stars and Stripes.

    Rank and organization: Captain (then Comdr.) U.S. Navy,U.S.S. Liberty(AGTR_5).
    place and date: International waters, Eastern Mediterranean, 8_9 June 1967.
    Entered service at: Thermal, Calif.
    Born: 19 November 1925, Wichita, Kans.

    Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. Sailing in international waters, the Liberty was attacked without warning by jet fighter aircraft and motor torpedo boats which inflicted many casualties among the crew and caused extreme damage to the ship. Although severely wounded during the first air attack, Capt. McGonagle remained at his battle station on the badly damaged bridge and, with full knowledge of the seriousness of his wounds, subordinated his own welfare to the safety and survival of his command. Steadfastly refusing any treatment which would take him away from his post, he calmly continued to exercise firm command of his ship. Despite continuous exposure to fire, he maneuvered his ship, directed its defense, supervised the control of flooding and fire, and saw to the care of the casualties. Capt. McGonagle's extraordinary valor under these conditions inspired the surviving members of the Liberty's crew, many of them seriously wounded, to heroic efforts to overcome the battle damage and keep the ship afloat. Subsequent to the attack, although in great pain and weak from the loss of blood, Captain McGonagle remained at his battle station and continued to command his ship for more than 17 hours. It was only after rendezvous with a U.S. destroyer that he relinquished personal control of the Liberty and permitted himself to be removed from the bridge. Even then, he refused much needed medical attention until convinced that the seriously wounded among his crew had been treated. Capt. McGonagle's superb professionalism, courageous fighting spirit, and valiant leadership saved his ship and many lives. His actions sustain and enhance the finest traditions of the U.S. Naval Service. (Captain McGonagle earned the Medal of Honor for actions that took place in international waters in the Eastern Mediterranean rather than in Vietnam.)


    Then there are the opinions of others, civilians in the position to know, better, than the Captain, himself.

    "I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. . . . Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous "
    -- US Secretary of State Dean Rusk

    "...the board of inquiry (concluded) that the Israelis knew exactly what they were doing in attacking the Liberty."
    -- CIA Director Richard Helms

    "I can tell you for an absolute certainty (from intercepted communications) that the Israelis knew they were attacking an American ship."
    -- NSA Deputy Director Oliver Kirby

    "That the Liberty could have been mistaken for the Egyptian supply ship El Quseir is unbelievable"
    -- Special Assistant to the President Clark Clifford, in his report to President Lyndon Johnson

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  58. We Wish:

    SO LONG, AMNESTY BILL:
    Mark Krikorian takes a look at how the public's outrage helped to defeat it.

    It seems that the overreaching of amnesty advocates has politicized a lot of people, and not just conservatives, over the non-enforcement of the immigration law. And that’s a good thing too — if the White House concludes that amnesty is unattainable, there will be a strong temptation to end the enforcement show that’s been staged over the past six months or so, with workplace raids designed to bolster the administration’s credibility on the issue.
    A vigilant citizenry will be required to ensure that doesn’t happen — that enforcement is not only not discontinued, but that it’s expanded, so we can end the Bush administration’s “silent amnesty” and get to work implementing a real strategy of attrition through enforcement.
    ---

    THE COST OF AMNESTY:
    Robert Rector of The Heritage Foundation once again takes a look at the economic consequences of the immigration bill.

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  59. Immigration Bill Sponsors Vow to Press on
    The authors of a comprehensive bill said they would try to resuscitate the measure, which stalled Thursday

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  60. In a very brief announcement, Mr. Gates stated the reason for these changes:


    "I concluded that because Gen. Pace has served as chairman and vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff for the last six years, the focus of his confirmation process would have been on the past rather than the future," Gates said.

    "There was the very real prospect the process would be quite contentious," he said. "A divisive ordeal at this point is not in the interest of the country."

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  61. The war in the Senate cannot be won by military means.
    Until they REALLY piss us off.

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  62. Trish reads all that left wing trash to keep comfortable in her beliefs that all real world problems are mere figments of the fevered immaginations of right wing wackominds.

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  63. I would kill myself if Paris was my daughter.

    Double Al would slobber in his warm milk.

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  64. So long, Peter.

    "Maybe Trish has a housekeeper?"

    No, Trish doesn't.

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  65. "Back before Sauer on Friday, Hilton's entire body trembled as the final pitch was made for her further incarceration. She clutched a ball of tissue and tears ran down her face.

    Seconds later, the judge announced his decision: "The defendant is remanded to county jail to serve the remainder of her 45-day sentence. This order is forthwith."

    Hilton screamed.

    Eight deputies immediately ordered all spectators out of the courtroom. Hilton's mother, Kathy, threw her arms around her husband, Rick, and sobbed uncontrollably.

    Deputies escorted Hilton out of the room, holding each of her arms as she looked back.
    "
    ---
    Oh the Humanity!

    Had Paris mown down a bunch of preschoolers on one of her THREE illegal rides, Double Al would have been concerned she might experience a bad afternoon over it.

    ...but that would soon pass after daddy paid off the grieving parents.

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  66. Paris would surely kill herself if she were your daughter, Doug, and we'd have done with the both of you:)

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  67. ___June 17, 1968, US fighter aircraft attack
    USS Boston (heavy cruiser)
    USS Edison (destroyer)
    USCGC Point Dume
    HMAS Hobart
    PCF-12
    PCF-19 sunk

    Quite apart from the fact that one ship was a heavy cruiser and another a destroyer, all these US ships were flagged conspicuously. Nevertheless, the entire group was attacked by American aircraft, sustaining damage and loss of life.

    In my world, the real world, sh*t happens - sad, but true.

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  68. Not if she killed herself first!

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  69. Miller thinks Paris is upset 'cause none of the gaurds WILL handcuff her and stuff, just to make her feel @Home!
    Should have congugal bondage rights, I suppose.

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  70. re: Liberty

    Knowing from past experience how difficult it is to identify small objects from the air while doing 600 kts, I wondered how the flag ever became an issue. Here is an article which provides some common sense on the Liberty's flag. Skip down to the 5th "Fact" paragraph.

    No fast mover has time to study the details of a ship on a targeting run, especially if they've been cleared in hot.

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  71. Sammy, you know damn well them SuperJoos got exceptional eyesight, some call it dangerous.
    (C4 thinks they can see inside his Soul Hole)
    Sorry, no excuse.

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  72. US attacks on US forces were an error, foreign nationals attacking US assets are not.

    You're right, allem, shit happens.

    The "Moorer Commission" (Chaired by Adm. Moorer) investigated the attack and made the following findings:

    "We, the undersigned, having undertaken an independent investigation of Israel's attack on USS Liberty, including eyewitness testimony from surviving crewmembers, a review of naval and other official records, an examination of official statements by the Israeli and American governments, a study of the conclusions of all previous official inquiries, and a consideration of important new evidence and recent statements from individuals having direct knowledge of the attack or the cover up, hereby find the following:

    1. That on June 8, 1967, after eight hours of aerial surveillance, Israel launched a two-hour air and naval attack against USS Liberty, the world's most sophisticated intelligence ship, inflicting 34 dead and 173 wounded American servicemen (a casualty rate of seventy percent, in a crew of 294);

    2. That the Israeli air attack lasted approximately 25 minutes, during which time unmarked Israeli aircraft dropped napalm canisters on USS Liberty's bridge, and fired 30mm cannons and rockets into our ship, causing 821 holes, more than 100 of which were rocket-size; survivors estimate 30 or more sorties were flown over the ship by a minimum of 12 attacking Israeli planes which were jamming all five American emergency radio channels;

    3. That the torpedo boat attack involved not only the firing of torpedoes, but the machine-gunning of Liberty's firefighters and stretcher-bearers as they struggled to save their ship and crew; the Israeli torpedo boats later returned to machine-gun at close range three of the Liberty's life rafts that had been lowered into the water by survivors to rescue the most seriously wounded;

    4. That there is compelling evidence that Israel's attack was a deliberate attempt to destroy an American ship and kill her entire crew; evidence of such intent is supported by statements from Secretary of State Dean Rusk, Undersecretary of State George Ball, former CIA director Richard Helms, former NSA directors Lieutenant General William Odom, USA (Ret.), Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, USN (Ret.), and Marshal Carter; former NSA deputy directors Oliver Kirby and Major General John Morrison, USAF (Ret.); and former Ambassador Dwight Porter, U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon in 1967;

    5. That in attacking USS Liberty, Israel committed acts of murder against American servicemen and an act of war against the United States;

    6. That fearing conflict with Israel, the White House deliberately prevented the U.S. Navy from coming to the defense of USS Liberty by recalling Sixth Fleet military rescue support while the ship was under attack; evidence of the recall of rescue aircraft is supported by statements of Captain Joe Tully, Commanding Officer of the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga, and Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis, the Sixth Fleet carrier division commander, at the time of the attack; never before in American naval history has a rescue mission been cancelled when an American ship was under attack;

    7. That although Liberty was saved from almost certain destruction through the heroic efforts of the ship's Captain, William L. McGonagle (MOH), and his brave crew, surviving crewmembers were later threatened with "court-martial, imprisonment or worse" if they exposed the truth; and were abandoned by their own government;

    8. That due to the influence of Israel's powerful supporters in the United States, the White House deliberately covered up the facts of this attack from the American people;

    9. That due to continuing pressure by the pro-Israel lobby in the United States, this attack remains the only serious naval incident that has never been thoroughly investigated by Congress; to this day, no surviving crewmember has been permitted to officially and publicly testify about the attack;

    10. That there has been an official cover-up without precedent in American naval history; the existence of such a cover-up is now supported by statements of Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, USN (Ret.), former Judge Advocate General of the Navy; and Captain Ward Boston, USN, (Ret.), the chief counsel to the Navy's 1967 Court of Inquiry of Liberty attack;

    11. That the truth about Israel's attack and subsequent White House cover-up continues to be officially concealed from the American people to the present day and is a national disgrace;

    12. That a danger to our national security exists whenever our elected officials are willing to subordinate American interests to those of any foreign nation, and specifically are unwilling to challenge Israel's interests when they conflict with American interests; this policy, evidenced by the failure to defend USS Liberty and the subsequent official cover-up of the Israeli attack, endangers the safety of Americans and the security of the United States.

    WHEREUPON, we, the undersigned, in order to fulfill our duty to the brave crew of USS Liberty and to all Americans who are asked to serve in our Armed Forces, hereby call upon the Department of the Navy, the Congress of the United States and the American people to immediately take the following actions:

    FIRST: That a new Court of Inquiry be convened by the Department of the Navy, operating with Congressional oversight, to take public testimony from surviving crewmembers; and to thoroughly investigate the circumstances of the attack on the USS Liberty, with full cooperation from the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency and the military intelligence services, and to determine Israel's possible motive in launching said attack on a U.S. naval vessel;

    SECOND: That every appropriate committee of the Congress of the United States investigate the actions of the White House and Defense Department that prevented the rescue of the USS Liberty, thereafter threatened her surviving officers and men if they exposed the truth, and covered up the true circumstances of the attack from the American people; and

    THIRD: That the eighth day of June of every year be proclaimed to be hereafter known as

    USS LIBERTY REMEMBRANCE DAY, in order to commemorate USS Liberty's heroic crew; and to educate the American people of the danger to our national security inherent in any passionate attachment of our elected officials for any foreign nation.

    We, the undersigned, hereby affix our hands and seals, this 22nd day of October, 2003.

    Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, USN, Ret.
    Former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff

    General of Marines Raymond G. Davis, USMC, MOH

    Former Commandant of the United States Marine Corps

    Merlin Staring
    Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, USN, Ret.,
    Former Judge Advocate General of the Navy,

    James Akins
    Ambassador James Akins, Ret.,
    Former United States Ambassador to Saudi Arabia"

    The federal criminal code makes special provision for the prosecution of war crimes whether inside or outside the United States, committed against United States armed forces personnel:


    Even your man, allen

    General of Marines Raymond G. Davis, USMC, MOH

    Former Commandant of the United States Marine Corps

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  73. sammy small,

    Thanks for the link. Take care introducing facts; not everyone appreciates the unvarnished truth. As you will observe, below, some will remain insulated and unconvinced, plastering copiously.

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  74. re: Even your man, allen

    Wow! Bold type always wins the day. And, how can I possibly question the Commandant? Yep, DR wins: the world is flat - innumerable Popes have said so.

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  75. It would appear, allen that "not everyone appreciates the unvarnished truth. " applies to yourself, or is General of Marines Raymond G. Davis, USMC, MOH
    amongst those you describe?

    Answers now, Marine, no sidestepping the answer.

    Is General of Marines Raymond G. Davis, USMC, MOH a respectable source, or one that does not appreciate the truth?

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  76. Yep. That IS an American flag. And?

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  77. Is General of Marines Raymond G. Davis, USMC, MOH a respectable source, or one that does not appreciate the truth?

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  78. Gosh, I have no idea whether the late Commandant could tolerate unvarnished truth, knowing nothing of the man's opinion in this matter, save an unattributed "quote". Of course, it really doesn't matter, for any number of reasons: the first of which is that the Commandant is not the Corps. Commandants, like presidents, come and go; the Corps stands eternal.

    Moreover, even if the General appreciated unvarnished truth, his interpretation of truth would not be infallible - infallibility being a great mystery to some.

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  79. In short, the late Commandant is not Jesus.

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  80. So the truth of this episode is an unknowable, you're telling us, allen?

    Believe whom you wish, as the truth was lost, in the fog of war.

    I'll side with the Crew, the Captain and the General. You can stand with Israel, as is yor wont.
    Have at it, events of forty years past are of little import.

    The tribes of the Levant, there have been some changes made, since 1967.
    Givin' back the Gaza, wonder if the General President will supply the Peacekeepers, or maybe the Turks?
    Perhaps the Syrians will just police themselves.

    Mr Olmert, a Champion of Peace in our Time.

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  81. A Marine is duty bound to follow EVERY lawful order; he is not obliged to agree with extraneous opinions.

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  82. re: So the truth of this episode is an unknowable

    The truth is known; some simply cannot handle it.

    Ten American investigations = Ten acquittals.

    Three Israeli investigations = Three acquittals.

    Yes, the truth is known: Sh*t happens.

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  83. Then you charge that General of Marines Raymond G. Davis, USMC, MOK is/ was an unreliable source, that does not appreciate the truth.

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  84. Shit happens at my house, every morning, like clock work.

    No surprise, no mistake.
    Shit happens, as planned.

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  85. re: Then you charge that General of Marines Raymond G. Davis, USMC, MOK is/ was an unreliable source, that does not appreciate the truth.

    Nuts!

    It is reassuring to know that some things never change, like the odor of BS.

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  86. I won't be staying long, I assure you.

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  87. dRat,

    Other than scoring traffic hits, what's really the point of this?

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  88. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  89. Do you have that letter, allen, from the Jewish Officers' Association of Warner Robins or some such? I think you posted it 16 months or so ago. I'd like to read it again.

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  90. Not much, I'd have let it go, had.

    But some folk don't want to.
    Fine with me.

    Israel for Israelis,
    Israelis for Israel.

    The US and Israel are not one and the same, their interests do not always coincide.

    Mr Olmert, the Syrians and those captive Israeli soldiers, rather discuss that.

    Others disparage the judgement of dead a USMC General, MOH. The verasity of a Naval Captain, MOH.
    Let's have a Congressional investigation, why does the USS Liberty stand alone in that regard.

    I'd rather discuss Mr Olmert and the Golan. Much more pertinent.

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  91. But some folk don't want to.

    Why do you think that is?

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  92. Fear

    Fear of even the possibility it could be true.

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  93. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  94. dRat,

    I don't follow your answer. What is it exactly that those who seek to revisit this unfortunate incident again and again are fearful of?

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  95. That the Israeli knowingly attacked the USS Liberty.

    You once compared the crew to Mr Pollard, spies.

    From the Israeli perspective, that could have been true.

    Like I said.
    Israel acted in it's percieved best interests, at the time.

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  96. When I read it, it did not address your question, at all.

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  97. You think that at the time, Israel knew this was a spy ship?

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  98. Without doubt, I believe that.

    Based upon the reports and my experiences in the military.

    The torpedo boats knew, they came within 50 feet of the ship, firing upon her at that point.

    According to the crew and Captain.

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  99. So if I'm clear about what you're saying, the Israeli torpedo boat crew knew this was a US spy ship. Is that correct?

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  100. dRat,

    Israelis are not French. And we despise French politics.

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  101. Ok. So everybody knew this was a US spy ship. The fighter pilots knew. The boat crew knew. Certainly all the commanders knew. And if I follow the logic, the decision was made to destroy this US spy ship because after 4 days of war with Egypt there was some big secret about the war that Israel wanted to keep the Americans from knowing. The killing of the Egyptians, which was being broadcasted live on the air waves, being the obvious example. Did I get this right?

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  102. Ten American investigations = Ten acquittals

    Three Israeli investigations = Three acquittals

    They must all be part of the conspiracy. But conspiring to do what? DR knows; if only he would share.

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