"The world is watching our southern border, as long as they realize that it's open. When we pass a bill that gives people the impression that there are new benefits to be had in the United States, and that's the Senate bill, you will have a stampede for the U.S. border that will overwhelm our border forces." -- Duncan Hunter
My son was brave and steadfast and irrepressible. Andrew J. Bacevich, Washington PostI Lost My Son to a War I Oppose. We Were Both Doing Our Duty.
All our threads are open at the EB. It is disconcerting at some times. It was to me, but through it all come some truly interesting insights about our rather ugly times. It is what we do here. During the day, if you have some special family story to tell, please do so. Some I may use for a post later in the day.Whit and I wish you all a good family day and hope you can take a moment to remember those that fought and gave for others.
MEDAL OF HONOR RECIPIENT MEMORIAL FUND:Corporal Jason Dunham, who gave his life so that his fellow Marines would live. He jumped on a grenade to save two other men.(But site's slideshow starts with his two VERY young children.Tears at your heart)
From a less enlightened era, Execution of SS soldiers at Dachau"The killing of unarmed POWs did not trouble many of the men in I company that day for to them the SS guards did not deserve the same protected status as enemy soldiers who have been captured after a valiant fight. To many of the men in I company, the SS were nothing more than wild, vicious animals whose role in this war was to starve, brutalize, torment, torture and murder helpless civilians." Flint Whitlock, The Rock of Anzio, From Sicily to Dachau: A history of the U.S. 45th Infantry Division
My father was a Marine during WW2. He made two combat amphibious landings during the war and was sent home in 1944 for elephantitus. He was training for the invasion of Japan in 1945 when Truman nuked Hiroshima/Nagasaki.Dad never complained and rarely spoke about the war but my uncles said it "took a lot out of him". Dad started having heart problems early in his 40s and died before he turned 60. Disease caused a lot of casualties in the war in the south Pacific.Dad lived his life as a Marine and I'm better for it. Semper Fi Dad.
I have a small family, but all the males in the family served with exceptional distinction. They all have a chest full of medals. But not me. Dad was part of an armored brigade. We arrived in Israel just in time for him to serve in the Yom Kippur war. This war was especially harsh on the Israeli armored core. And dad saw all the horrors imaginable. Dad's brother is 20 years older, and he passed through hell fighting the Germans in Stalingrad. There was only one thing that bothered my dad about the war. That thing was carelessness. Dad beat the shit out of me for being careless. But it didn't help. You can't be a military man and be careless. Well, you can. But you wouldn't survive for very long.
Deuce, we're in this together:http://www.grostenquin.org/photos/support/pgt-106.jpg
Many of you are familiar with my fathers military career, others not.From a commission into the U.S. Army and a posting to Fort Riley ,Kansas in a horse cavalry unit to his interservice transfer within six months to the Marine Corps he served with honor and distinction.He passed away a year ago yesterday.Winner of the Navy Cross, two Distinguish Flying Crosses and too many Air Medals to count, he had more carrier landings in an F4U Corsair than any Marine in the Corps history. He finished his flying behind the stick of an F4 Phantom after transitioning from what was known as the "last gunfighter" the F8U Crusader.But prior to becoming an aviator in the Corps he was a grunt, making four island assault landings in the Pacific.However, the bravest act I ever personally witnessed was on a PCS from MCAS Cherry Point, NC to MCAS El Toro, CA.We had stopped for breakfast at a diner in Texas after the 05:00 motel departure and the requisite 150 miles "before chow". The diner sat in an flat open area near the intersection of two highways (the interstates were just being built)A fuel truck, cab over engine style, had a nice fire going that the drive was unaware of, and it was rapidly growing. My father sprinted fifty yards to the intersection,jumped up on the truck and notified the driver who ejcted with great elan.My mother, sister, and I all watched in horror/fascination as the event unfolded and the truck burned to the ground.When we entered the restaurant the patrons rose to their feet and gave my father a standing ovation. It was pretty neat for a six year old to see. He is buried in Arlington.Semper Fidelis, Dad, I love you.
Both of my grandfathers served in WWII. One in the Navy in the Pacific; the other in the Army in Europe. My father was a young Lieutenant, Field Artillery, in Vietnam - '68-'69. He went MI and retired from the service in '95. My mother wanted to join the family business, but ROTC at the time did not accept married women into the program. My brother served, as did I - as an Army interrogator and linguist. I have been an Army wife for 23 years, to a man whose early understanding and appreciation of his work was quite simple: Doing manly things in a manly way with other men. He is a Jack of All Trades, Master of Some.Right, hon?Our 16-year-old son would gladly enlist this moment if he could get away with it. (Beats AP English and chemistry five days a week, doesn't it?) We don't encourage it at this particular time for anyone; but young people have minds of their own and willpower far stronger than that of their poor, beleaguered parents.Some things never change. And it's quite alright that some things never do.
I cannot let the career of my brother-in-law, a Marine Aviator pass without mention.Originally an A-4 Skyhawk driver he also got qualified in AC-130's, at the time the only Marine to be so qualified. His first tour of duty was as an A-4 pilot out of DaNang, but the need for C-130 drivers became acute at some point so he volunteered. Having filled in until more C-130 drivers could be brought up to speed, he once again volunteered for another assignment. This time as a FAC near the DMZ for the III MAF at Con Thien and Dong Ha.He was soon fully involved in some of the heaviest fighting the Marines encountered in the war.Operation Buffalo was a horror which saw hand to hand combat between over 4,000 combatants. He was wounded three times and received the Silver Star. It was his units custom to accept only one Purple Heart no matter how many you had earned so he followed custom.He later became the CO of several Marine Corps Squadrons and the Commandant of the Marine Corps pilot ,as well as the pilot for the Ambassador to Indonesia.He now owns his own aerospace consulting firm.Sempi Fi, JackOperation Buffalo
ahhhh the glory of war - the ultimate is to sacrifice ones life while waging it? ...James Wolcott was pretty scathing in yesterday's post. A good read!. Here is an excerpt:"...Arthur Silber decries that the entire American political and media culture has elevated big talk of war at the expense of the hard, dirty, chaotic, deranged, heartbreaking visual truth. Bolton, Perle, Tiresias, Victor Davis Hanson, and a regiment of supine bloggers are able to rattle their pots and pans together to a deafening din because the sights and sounds of these savage wars of peace are muffled and veiled. In our national maturity... ...we have significantly regressed. Even as our governing class remains absolute in its determination to avoid the central and most fundamental lessons from Vietnam, it has remembered and applied certain lessons very well indeed. The horrors of Iraq, including the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of entirely innocent Iraqis, never even enter the consciousness of most Americans. The dead and horrifically injured Americans are shuffled offstage without ceremony. The great majority of Americans continue in their preferred mode of existence: intellectually ignorant and lazy, spiritually fat and self-satisfied, and completely oblivious to the unimaginable suffering their government inflicts in other parts of the world. Our national media remain cowed and intimidated, and they refuse, a few honorable exceptions aside, to provide details of the daily and hourly horrors in Iraq to the public. A single major newspaper could provide a noble and invaluable service: if they gave a damn at all about unnecessary death and suffering, they would select the most awful and horrifying picture they could find -- a body with its guts falling out, a bloody corpse shorn of arms and legs, a mutilated face made unrecognizable -- and fill up their entire front page with it, a new one every day. Perhaps after a month or two, enough Americans would demand that their government stop butchering people who never harmed us. [To achieve the sought-for effect, the pictures obviously should be of Iraqis, and only Iraqis. The Iraqis had no choice about our criminal war of aggression, and the endless destruction we have unleashed; the United States did -- and does, even today. We could leave, as we quickly would if we had any remaining decency and humanity, but we won't.]No, we're going to drag it out, just as we did in Vietnam, pretending our national pride and stature are at stake because too many fools in high places can't bring themselves to admit they were wrong and that history will not absolve them. "http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/blogs/wolcott
"Perhaps after a month or two, enough Americans would demand that their government stop butchering people who never harmed us."And here we are, ash, staying to "protect them". We can stay and keep up the pretense or we can leave and drop it. Painful either way.
Already there Mat, look behind the second and third cross on front of the posted picture. Right behind that is the Star of David. All American soldiers united in death.
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How did we seize the day in Vietnam?
Ash,You speak of the lessons we learned in Vietnam being repeated in Iraq. You draw the horror of war as it is,horror. Men ground into unrecognizeable pulp or vaporized by the direct hit of an artillery shell. Yes war is hell. That's a dog bites man story, as old as mankinds history.Where your myopia works is in it's failure to see the lessons of history beyond Vietnam. Your selctivity is so narrow as to be flaccid in the face of the strengh of the truth.Go back to the battles mankind has fought for a thousand years to gain just a foothold on personal freedom, away from bondage and servitude. And then onto greater and greater efforts to secure those freedoms.That the sacrifices made by millions of civilians and servicemen deserve to be acknowledged as the foundations of mankinds freedom. If you are not prepared to be constantly vigilant in defense of these freedoms then I assure you there are those who will take then from you by violent means.Vietnam was one lesson but it is not the book of lessons. It is a chapter very near the end of the book of ongoing lessons of war and mankind. To be knowledgeable in speaking to the horrors of war you must begin at the beginning. You have failed to do this. You constantly fail to understand. Your myopia has sentenced you to a life of ignorance in writing about things you know nothing about and refuse to educate yourself about. Your animadversion are pitiful. Were I to witness you on fire I would not piss on you to retard the flames.
Trish, Ash, couldn't you two put that shit away for at least One Day?
And shame on you for wanting to put it away, this day.
Habu, Even you seem to have absorbed the seeming universal lesson gleaned by mankind that "war is hell". One should approach war with that one simple notion lodged firmly in thy brain before urging, or even countenancing, a cavalier approach to such actions. To wag war is profound and horrific, to do so unnecessarily, cavalierly, is criminal.
Trish,This is a day to honor those who have died in the service of their country. Ash has chosen to inessence be one of the protestors at Arlington.This is not the day for that and your defense of his behavior is tawdry but not unexpected. Somewhere in your backdround you have been tramatized to a point where proper behavior and demeanor has become a sinister force you are unable to harness.One day of honor is all we are asking. One day where the war critic allow those who have given there last full measure of devotion can be elevated to the glory they deserve. Your, Ash's and your ilk's pettiness is grossly misplaced on this day.
I'm one of the few that comes from a family without any military experience. I did have a cousin who pulled some guard duty in Germany is near as I get. I want to say I appreciate all you who have, and say 'thank you'. Have a great Memorial Day.
Ash,No one who has seen death and combat seeks war. But it has relentlessly come because men are always present on this Earth who would deny universal freedom.Men who then are repulsed by war understand that freedom is more important than their singular life, and so they fight. It has been so forever. "Only the dead have seen the end of war", Plato
Keep with it, ash.
Take it to the DU, assholes.
We don't have to.
Trish,You are not fit to clean a pig pen.You are doing the equivalent to spitting on the graves of our military dead.Do not ever cross my path. You or you husband,some or anyone else in tour filthy uncouth family. It will be war, I promise you.
Habu,You do not rank among my worries.
Here's wishing All of you people (except those wondering how to get in the blow jobs for the silky pony-line,) a relaxing, and pleasant Memorial Day. I'm going to do a little yard work, today; and, give a few silent "Thanks" to various of my relatives that have Died to make our family Free.Someone said today that, "It's the home of the Free, BECAUSE it's the Home of the Brave." Here's to our "Brave" Friends, and neighbors, and relatives past and present. God Bless Them All.
And, Fuck the Commies, and hippies amongst us! And, curse them for stealing the air that could be breathed by Americans.
That is outstanding.Those complacent and in an unguarded psychology are the easiest with which to deal.I imagine with the demons that haunt you I am but a small if not even a non-existent concern.Your posts here are clear for all to read on this Memorial Day. I do not imagine you have raised your esteem in the eyes of many.We have after all not asked for a complete abeyance of your opinions, just this one day of at least your silence if not respect to the dead.You have chosen to press the issue that you will not give that respect, which those who died fought to allow you to do. But those of us who are living and do repect this day can never repect you for your reprehensible actions.
All for the oil, right rufus?
I don't know much of my family history because it goes back into Europe so quickly. One of my grandfathers tried to join the military during World War II, but had horrible eyesight and couldn't get into anything but a continental militia unit. My father was 4F during Vietnam, but tried to go as a private contractor. His efforts were interrupted by Tet.My great-grandfather on the other side was a Polish Army officer captured and executed by the Soviets. As far as I can tell, his son was sent to Auschwitz for being a member of the Polish Resistance. He survived, but died due to related health complications in the early 1950s.I'm currently hoping to serve an enlistment in one of reserve branches after Graduate School, but I have bad lungs so it is, as it's always been, an iffy proposition.
This is Memorial Day, Bitch. It's NOT Election Day.
What a sweet distinction, friend.
Trish.... THIS IS OBVIOUSLY YOUR MAGNUM OPUS OF LIES AND BULL SHIT..Both of my grandfathers served in WWII. One in the Navy in the Pacific; the other in the Army in Europe. My father was a young Lieutenant, Field Artillery, in Vietnam - '68-'69. He went MI and retired from the service in '95. My mother wanted to join the family business, but ROTC at the time did not accept married women into the program. My brother served, as did I - as an Army interrogator and linguist. I have been an Army wife for 23 years, to a man whose early understanding and appreciation of his work was quite simple: Doing manly things in a manly way with other men. He is a Jack of All Trades, Master of Some.Right, hon?Our 16-year-old son would gladly enlist this moment if he could get away with it. (Beats AP English and chemistry five days a week, doesn't it?) We don't encourage it at this particular time for anyone; but young people have minds of their own and willpower far stronger than that of their poor, beleaguered parents.Some things never change. And it's quite alright that some things never do.
Do you have a problem with it?
trish trashI'm surprised you're not considered a security risk .. what went wrong?How did you end up being both tapered ends and the middle of a turd?I have a suggestion. Invite your 16 year old son to the computer and allow him to read what you have written this day and see if he can maintain any respect for you. It should be interesting.
Why do some of you think that it is a form of dishonor? that it is "the equivalent to spitting on the graves of our military dead" to suggest that we should not fight wars of choice? It is you who dishonor their memory by trying to turn a blind eye to the true nature of the sacrifices made by pretending that all have died in glorious pursuit of "universal freedom". What poppycock!
My 16-year-old son has no faith in the present endeavor. The point is to get there and get some before it's over.SPQR
Fuck you, Ash; You're a sorry cocksucker. The Japs started WWII by killing my Namesake at Pearl Harbor. The rest of my family spent the rest of the war chasing the little bastards all over the Pacific and killing them in large numbers till the Japs quit, and they made our guys come home and quit killing them.Now, on Memorial Day, I come to a website that has several VETERANS of my age, and some sorry little air-stealing scum like you comes along and ruins my day. What a fucking pain in the ass.
Good one, ash.
And to my fellow Marines I share part of the eulogy from my father's Arlington funeral with full honors.Eternal Father,grant, we prayTo all Marines, both night and day,The courage,honor,strength, and skillTheir land to serve, thy law fulfill;Be thou the shield forevermoreFrom every peril to the CorpsAnd when at length his course is run,His work for home and country done,Of all the souls o'er ocean sailedLet not one life in thee have failed;But hear from heaven our sailor's cry,And grant eternal life on high!SEMPER FIDELIS
...and with those thoughts in mind Rufus would you send your son to enlist for service in Iraq? Is that conflict a glorious quest for universal freedom?
Trish,In other words you don't want you 16 year old to know how you chose to honor the fallen dead.He could never respect you and you know it..it would be too great a cognitive dissonance for him to think he was fighting for his country, only to realize his mother has no respect for those who have and who have died in that service, and in fact insult themon the very day the nation honors them.Yeah I didn't think you'd invite him to read this thread. Which means you are not proud or brave, but cowardly.
Nobody sends their Son. I went. I did my duty. If my son was of the age and decided to go, then he would go. I would be very proud of him.
Thanks Trish,I greatly appreciate your POV!I'm puzzled by your son's desire to "get some". What is it he's keen to get, combat experience? If so, maybe he should start by reading about it for awhile first. a couple of milblogs might get the youth in him interested:http://turningtables.blogspot.com/http://funwithhandgrenades.blogspot.com/I found Michael Kerr's book "Dispatches" a great read.http://www.amazon.com/Dispatches-Michael-Herr/dp/0679735259
"Why do some of you think that it is a form of dishonor? that it is "the equivalent to spitting on the graves of our military dead" to suggest that we should not fight wars of choice? It is you who dishonor their memory by trying to turn a blind eye to the true nature of the sacrifices made by pretending that all have died in glorious pursuit of "universal freedom". What poppycock!"Because they fought in the name of the country whose history, motives, actions, and friends that your kind has made an ideology out of constantly slandering.At least, so long as it isn't personally and politically inconvenient. If it is, you'll muster up some crocodile tears, but there's little doubt you'll eventually get back on the usual song and dance.
ashi'm not going to waste any more time on this day answering a cowardly fool.Brave men will continue to protect your rights to free expression.May you die a slow, painful death.
rufus, point taken. Your are correct that one doesn't send ones son (or daughter). You can encourage and discourage but that's about it.
Semper Fidelis, Habu;I'm going to go get me a cool one, now.later.
I'm puzzled by your son's desire to "get some". What is it he's keen to get, combat experience? If so, maybe he should start by reading about it for awhile first.- ashHe has, ash. Extensively.
well, that's good...I guess there is nothing like the real thing - unfortunately.
p.s. I always thought Catch 22 depicted the insanity of it all pretty well - not that I would know from experience.
This is the second time around that the west has cut Iraq some opportunity. Towards the end of WWI the Brits pushed the Turks out, the Turks having chosen the wrong side in the war. The Turks had governed through the sunnis and the whole place was a hell of a mess. Turks had been running it, if you can call it that, for something like 500 years. I'm reading a book about Gertrude Bell an Englishwoman who spent years there during the time. There was hardly a literate shia in the whole place. The Brits put in a sunni king, Faisal, the sunnis being the only people could read, but at the time most everyone seemed to agree to it. It was more or less independent at that point. Two kings later and they kicked out the king and put in a 'republic'. Later on Saddam takes over. It's hard to say that the west hasn't given them another chance, they did vote, etc. Their divisions run deep, might not work. Their patterns of thought are strange to us. But we did take the horse to water so in that sense it is about freedom, least in our sense of not being a slave to allah, or the opportunity thereto. If the horse don't drink it's hard to blame the folks that took it to water. Miss Bell stayed with a family back then for awhile--1920's named Chalabi--rich family--it didn't say so, but I'm quessing it is the same family of recent note.Same tribes back then, same attitudes, same terrorism, same whole deal almost, 90 years later. Same name Sadr popping out of the pages, 90 years ago.
Let's face it, Bob; people of European descent have a lot of problems with Democracy. People of Non-European descent have an UNGODLY, HORRIBLE HARD TIME with self-rule.
So far as I know, has nothing to do with descent and everything to do with culture.Japanese, for example, are doing fine.Besides, most of Europe's experience with self-rule remains relatively short. So there's still black hope that they, and we, will still screw it up.2,000 years from now who knows where everyone will be, if anyone still is.
Rufus, It's hard to call someone like Miss Bell an 'imperialist'. She worked her heart out on the problems. She wasn't the British administrator at the time, but was in the thick of it, trying to put something together that might work, after the Brits pushed the Turks out, which they had some trouble doing. She was great at being able to talk to all those folks and build up a relationship, even being a woman. Churchill's attitude seemed to be one of mainly wanting to cut costs. It was costing them something like 47 million pounds a year, he wanted to get it down to around 7 million. Oil wasn't the big thing then that it is now. The whole place was a disaster, the Turks had sucked it dry, and when they retreated north it was scorched earth. Starvation was breaking out, farmers eating the planting seeds. The Kurds had the same attitude then as now, wanting to go their own way. One minor difference I detected in what I read was that the Christians and Jews(and there were some there then) seemed not to have the totally impossible situation there that they have now.
Rufus, did you or did you not say that this is all about oil?
Under the Turks there was no real legal system at all, basically just bribe payments for everything.
I saw that new book on Bell at one of the libaries I went to. Only thing I read about her was in Kaplan's "The Arabists." She came off rather poorly, a head-case in fact.
Of course it's all about oil, but that ain't got a tinker's damn to do with Memorial Day.
What is Memorial Day about?
Well, she had a good head on her shoulders, but nobody's perfect I quess. It's a tough job, trying to make some sense out of non-sense.
"[To achieve the sought-for effect, the pictures obviously should be of Iraqis, and only Iraqis. The Iraqis had no choice about our criminal war of aggression, and the endless destruction we have unleashed; the United States did -- and does, even today. We could leave, as we quickly would if we had any remaining decency and humanity, but we won't.]"Lest we forget the turd that was dropped in the thread.With all due respect, I think after being stuck in the Wildnerness, you've developed a case of Stockholm's syndrome, Trish.
I don't see how VDH is uncouth because he denigrates the culture American's are currently fighting and dying for and Ash's routine is merely edgy and cute.
And FTR, I don't even read VDH.
There is a suspicion in the air.How could the following, posted today by Trish be explained other than by some type of mild to severe psychosis.Both of my grandfathers served in WWII. One in the Navy in the Pacific; the other in the Army in Europe. My father was a young Lieutenant, Field Artillery, in Vietnam - '68-'69. He went MI and retired from the service in '95. My mother wanted to join the family business, but ROTC at the time did not accept married women into the program. My brother served, as did I - as an Army interrogator and linguist. I have been an Army wife for 23 years, to a man whose early understanding and appreciation of his work was quite simple: Doing manly things in a manly way with other men.She then spends post after post damning this day, this Memorial Day when we as a nation honor our fallen.She then asked the question.What is Memorial Day about?She shields her son from her writings and ostensibly her feelings while claiming he wants into the armed forces.What is one to think?It would appear that Trish is afflicted with some type of psychosis, ie. she's a head case.Psychosis is a generic psychiatric term for a mental state often described as involving a "loss of contact with reality". Stedman's Medical Dictionary defines psychosis as "a severe mental disorder, with or without organic damage, characterized by derangement of personality and loss of contact with reality and causing deterioration of normal social functioning."I say'n she's a full blown fruitcake.
The first memorial day seems to have taken place in Charleston,S.C., in 1865, involving liberated slaves who made a celebration at a race track there. Cities both north and south began a day of remembrance, which turned into decoration day, finally morphing into our current national holiday honoring our men and women in all our conflicts.
VDH, of course, saw an easy home run in 2003.Ash's virtue is that he didn't buy what the rest of us did. And he won't buy what the rest us will.And he is our political opponent. And he had it right.
causing deterioration of normal social functioning."So would someone operating under "normal social functioning" mode use the ONE day out of the entire year to, NOT HONOR, but rather DISHONOR, those who the entire day was set aside to HONOR?I think not.
What makes me sad is this notion of political opponent. The only politician I know of in the US that got it right was Nadar. Outside the US, well, that is a whole different story. Many a foreign politician saw problems as evidenced by all those in power who resisted the arm twisting and contracts dangled at the time. Many still signed on, if in name only. US domestic politics seemed blinded by 911 and fear.
Terrorist Caught Literally With His Pants Down :)
Habu,It is entirely consistent to honor those fallen by urging people not to send others to a similar fate on a lark, a whim and a prayer, or any other fanciful notion. A good hard look at a situation framed by our agreed upon notion that "war is hell" should help us honor those already fallen without diluting them with more sent in vain.
"VDH, of course, saw an easy home run in 2003.Ash's virtue is that he didn't buy what the rest of us did. And he won't buy what the rest us will."The first sentence is irrelevant to what I asked about you, VDH, and Ash. The second statement could be said of most skinheads (ZOG!), communists (Imperialists!), or anyone of any number of people who have various political persuasions. "And he is our political opponent. And he had it right." You'll have to define "it" to distinguish whether he had "it" right. If I thought, for example, the US shouldn't go to war in Iraq because the Flying Spagetti Monster would cause untold destruction and defeat the United States, I would be right about the first claus, but completely screw up the why. Let alone the "how," "who," or whatever other questions. I suspect Ash still can't even figure out "why," because he won't accept that Wolfowitz and his bunch's problem was that they were too idealistic, rather than too cynical.
cutler,My contention then, and my contention now, is that attempting to reform Iraq through invasion and occupation is a fools errand and will not succeed because very few in Iraq think that the US is doing this for their good.
"I suspect Ash still can't even figure out "why," because he won't accept that Wolfowitz and his bunch's problem was that they were too idealistic, rather than too cynical."If ash figures cynical rather than ideological, he's in good company.
"cutler,My contention then, and my contention now, is that attempting to reform Iraq through invasion and occupation is a fools errand and will not succeed because very few in Iraq think that the US is doing this for their good." You don't even buy yourself the notion that the neo-Conservatives wanted a mutually beneficial reformation. Of course, neither did the Japanese or the Germans have any conception of such events. But the subsequent occupations didn't fail, for different reasons.The notion that Ralph Nader could come up with a responsible foreign policy is laughable.
I'm not touting Nadar as being the answer, I'm just pointing out that he was the only one in the last Presidential cycle who said anything intelligent about Iraq. Kerry and Bush essentially held the same position separated by 'nuance' so the notion of 'political opponent' is a bit odd given my position on the place.Germany and Japan were two completely different beasts from Iraq militarily and culturally. Apples and oranges. Do you, cutler, think that if we just stick it out longer, apply more force, surge for a few more years Iraq will be come free, democratic and an ally of the US? If so, I disagree.
"My contention then, and my contention now, is that attempting to reform Iraq through invasion and occupation is a fools errand and will not succeed because very few in Iraq think that the US is doing this for their good." As well, your contentions are of course more than that. You also believe that the US leaving will reduce the bloodshed. I suspect we're soon going to find out exactly the opposite. In a practical sense, there's nothing 'anti-war' about handicapping and removing one actor from a multifacted war between various factions. Particularly when that one actor is the one trying most to end the bloodshed.
No, I've never maintained that our leaving will decrease the bloodshed or lead to peace. It could, or, very likely, the elected government of Iraq could fall to a coup, possibly from the Sadr group. The minority Sunni have a long history of ruling the place, maybe they'll seize control. Maybe they like the democratic experience and will choose to continue it. I don't know, but it isn't our decision to make.Yes, Iraq is part of the region and there is much regional instability. The whole damn thing is one big mess and GWB and gang have made it and our responsibilities in it much larger. I've been railing about his stoopid policies for years and we will suffer their consequences for years to come. Still we need to change course, reduce our daily causalities and try to help the region come to a more stable peace.
"Germany and Japan were two completely different beasts from Iraq militarily and culturally. Apples and oranges. Do you, cutler, think that if we just stick it out longer, apply more force, surge for a few more years Iraq will be come free, democratic and an ally of the US? If so, I disagree." Every single situation is a matter of apples and organes when compared to another. Germany and Japan were themselves two different animals. The point is that the suspicion of Germans and Japanese didn't stop what happened after the war. There was then, as there is now in Iraq, much more variables involved than merely the suspicion of occupied populations.As for whether we will succeed at transformation: No. It is long past time to reduce expectations and change the game plan.
You said: "No, I've never maintained that our leaving will decrease the bloodshed or lead to peace."Previously you said:[To achieve the sought-for effect, the pictures obviously should be of Iraqis, and only Iraqis. The Iraqis had no choice about our criminal war of aggression, and the endless destruction we have unleashed; the United States did -- and does, even today. We could leave, as we quickly would if we had any remaining decency and humanity, but we won't.]"Reconcile?
As Trish applauds cyncism her psychology unravels further..to wit.The author begins by noting the historical importance of perversion in the development of psychoanalysis and its potential for inspiring new ideas. Observing that cynicism is a component of perversion, he discusses some psychoanalytic views of the cynic and the role of the cynical attitude in politics. After a brief reference to the philosophy of the ancient Cynics and to irony, which he distinguishes from cynicism proper, he considers the clinical and theoretical aspects of cynicism and perversion in terms of representation/affect and hallucination/sensual pleasure. The connections with fetishim in particular are explored. The cynic is stated to possess an ethic of the negative, in which beauty is trampled underfoot by linguistic acts permeated with the subject's internal void, and to use a sexual theory translated into ideology. Specific elements of the cynic's logic include, in the author's view, a vindication of the mother's phallus, scepticism about the possibility of a male identification in the patient's father, and premonitions of the inexorable return of the non-human. These points, as well as the radical differences between perversion and cynicism on the one hand and neurosis and psychosis on the other, are illustrated by a literary example and the case history of a frotteur.Trish is a bounty of psychosis and psychosexual dysfunctions...hey this is getting fun. Lets all watch her unravel. This would also aid in explaining why Trish often sounds more like a trash mouth longshoreman than a "lady".
First of all, that was a quote from Wolcott, and second, at least it won't be US doing the killing if we withdraw. People will surely die but not from our sword. They may have to duke it out or find a means to peacefully settle their differences. To repeat, it is not our decision to make for them. A central American hubris seems to be that we must find the solution. We certainly are complicit now that we've plunked ourselves firmly in their midst.
Trish,There are people who can help you. Get help soon.
Ash,Jump in front of a speeding bus.
Well no can argue that there is only one point of view at the EB.
It reminds me of some of our family picnics, or weddings when the beer and shots kicked in. I come from a fighting clan. Happy Memorial day one and all.
"First of all, that was a quote from Wolcott, and second, at least it won't be US doing the killing if we withdraw. People will surely die but not from our sword. They may have to duke it out or find a means to peacefully settle their differences. To repeat, it is not our decision to make for them. A central American hubris seems to be that we must find the solution. We certainly are complicit now that we've plunked ourselves firmly in their midst."Well, as long as you don't fancy yourself a humanitarian of any support, that'd be coherent, though Wolcott's piece doesn't say that. Unfortunately, causes and effects do not stay localized, which means other people, including us, have interests in and are affected by what happens. Even worse, it is not merely an 'American hubris' that we should be the one to find solutions, but one entertained by much of the world.
With recognition as well that this doctrine is going to be hard on people like the Kurds, Cambodians, Montagnards, etc...But I forget, the beauty of this is we don't recognize any conflicts that don't involve us immediately. So if we do get involved, every shift and turn in the conflict is then our fault. The Vietnamese invaded Cambodia? Too bad! The crime didn't start until the US recognized it and bombed them, and then actually had the gall to chase them out!!!We still will have to figure out how to hold this constant, of course, and then criticize the US for not intervening in places like Rwanada, Bosnia, and Darfur, I guess.
Wit of course is doing his best, but alas poor imitation, of Stephen Crane, who having never seen war or any of the attendate horrors nonetheless felt an impressionistic novel was due from him to explain to the public that which he had never seen. A very neat trick. Thus "The Red Badge of Courage"Wit not having the disposition to be a warrior feels compelled to lecture on war and it's evils. Most often his points are misleading if not outright misrepresentations or lies but why should that stop one who's pen is his foil. Somehow it lacks gravitas when speaking to those who have been in the crucible, but liberals are undaunted by such things. Their innate moral position allows them license to lecture those who are not as"enlightened"Wit could only be the porgeny of leftests.
I agree with you Cutler that conflicts are not simply isolated affairs and I also agree with the humanitarian thoughts you express. The problem with the Iraq conflict from the beginning was that the US had huge economic interest (oil) and went it virtually alone against the advice of many of its allies. This is a recipe for failure and it has set back 'universal rights' and all that idealistic stuff by many years. The only hope, in my view, for interventions like this to have any hope of success is if there is broad international support and some basis in rule of law. Hence my advocacy for such international institutions as the ICC.
Deuce,Same with my clan."Illegitimi non carborundum" the family motto
Speaking of Darfur, I showed an apartment the other day to a girl from Florida who is going to go to law school here. Nice girl. She had two bumper stickers on her car---'Stop Genocide in Darfur'--and--'Support The Animal Liberation Front'--no joking--I've also got a Navy guy from Montana interested, I'm going to save the apartment for him.
No sooner do I point out the fact that the Ash's of the world lie than he does it."The problem with the Iraq conflict from the beginning was that the US had huge economic interest (oil) and went it virtually alone against the advice of many of its allies.We went to the UN time and time again, finally gaining resolutions that allowed our military intervention. Allies? Forty-nine countries: Afghanistan Albania Angola Australia Azerbaijan Bulgaria Colombia Costa Rica Czech Republic Denmark Dominican Republic El Salvador Eritrea Estonia Ethiopia Georgia Honduras Hungary Iceland Italy Japan Kuwait Latvia Lithuania Macedonia Marshall Islands Micronesia Mongolia Netherlands Nicaragua Palau Panama Philippines Poland Portugal Romania Rwanda Singapore Slovakia Solomon Islands South Korea Spain Tonga Turkey Uganda Ukraine United Kingdom United States Uzbekistan Keep digging that hole Ash.
Yes habu, we are well aware of the significant contributions made by the likes of Micronesia, Mongolia ect.
Now to compound this "oil lie" that leftest like Ash continue to try and perpetrate on the uninformed is the fact that those "allies" France and Germany, that did not aid us DID HAVE huge oil contracts and construction contracts with Iraq. The Russians also were complicit in their UN position against the US was that they too had huge oil contracts.To add insult to injury the UN's fraudulent administration of the Oil for Food program was enriching France,germany and Russia among others.The US did not have huge oil contracts with Iraq.Ash, get you shit wired tighter dude.
Habu, isn't it true that one of the things we have been trying to do is get the Iraqi to adopt a public law about the oil resource that potions out the revenues to each group in something resembling a fair split?
US had huge economic interest (oil) and went it virtually alone against the advice Wit you said the above. You are welcome to denigrate the 49 nations that helped us but your statement is factually TOTALLY incorrect on both points made in only those 14 words.
Bob-Lyes exactly correct ..the tribal mindset is still inhibiting forward motion on almost all fronts but there has been progress made.
each group being each Iraqi group, Kurd, Shia, Sunni.
Right, how then is it people seem to think we are 'stealing the oil?. I don't see that we've really gotten squat out of this, financially.
Well folks, this is not the way I wanted to spend my Memorial Day but I did rise with my morning thanks to God and a prayer so all is not lost. This could have been over a good deal quicker if Ash, Trish and I had been in the same room..I can guarantee that. Having exposed both Trish and Ash was not hard but my typing speed is not very good.All the best to my compadres. To the psychos and leftest .. we'll get to you when the ballon goes up, never fear about that. You can run but you'll just be wasting energy.
"Traditionally, where the British Empire had established its rule over newly infiltrated nations, it had superimposed its own concepts of justice, administration, language and military control, including the peculiarfly British notion of public service free of corruption. But by the time the British moved into Iraq they no longer had the money, will, or manpower to provide an overarching imperial structure, having exhausted all their resources in fighting the world war. Their main objects were the defeat of the Turks and their German allies, and the protection of Biritsh oil interests. Once the Turkish army had been destroyed, the British could have retreated to the stronghold of Basra to secure their oil supplies and left the rest of the population to anarchy and starvcation. This economically sound approach was heartily advocated by influential politicians in London and Delhi, including Winston Churchill, then Minister of Munitions and soon to be secretary of State for the Colonies. But at the same time, amongst the British administration and emanating from the Secretariat, there emerged a strong sense of responsibility for the inhabitants and a pride in securing good government for them after the abuses they had suffered at the hands of the Ottoman Empire. As the British took hold of more and more of Mesopotamia, attitudes towards them changed. Little by little, the population began to see improvements in their conditions, and that the British meant to do well by them. They saw that their taxes were fed back into their communities and not siphoned off to pay the occupying army or to send to London." from Gertrude Bell, Queen of the DesertPages follow describing how bad things were, and things were the shits. Interestingly, one problem was the custom of muzzies from other countries bringing their dead in to be buried in the holy cities. This custom caused all sorts of headaches.
"I agree with you Cutler that conflicts are not simply isolated affairs and I also agree with the humanitarian thoughts you express. The problem with the Iraq conflict from the beginning was that the US had huge economic interest (oil) and went it virtually alone against the advice of many of its allies."As Habu has said, this will remain wrong no matter how many times it is said. In Europe, for example, France, Germany, and Belgium were themselves the isolated nations. The majority of continent's governments supported the United States, and did so publicly (including the signed letters that their foreign ministers had published in American newspapers). It was frustration over this fact that led Chirac to declare that the Eastern European nations should shut up if they wanted to join the EU. The same message France and Germany gave to Turkey. So much for 'arm twisting,' I guess.The United States had the "right" under international law to go to war with Iraq ever since it broke the 1991 cease-fire. It was a mistake of the Bush Administration to even pretend that it even needed prior UN approval and a reflection of the fact that they were trying to win over people such as yourself with form, as opposed to substance. In truth, they succeeded in creating the largest international coalition in human history. Larger than the Gulf War, larger than Korea, or World War II.You demean their contributions, but in reality you're only showing the fallacy of the entire concept of international cooperation. Certainly, there were smaller countries that did not amount to much militarily, but this is actually a reflection of the stupidity that pretends they have equal weight in international bodies. They couldn't have contributed much even if they wanted to. They supported us politically, that was enough.Of the major powers, we enjoyed the support of some. Notably, not the Germans, Russians, French, or Chinese - but most of the rest. Some contributed, some didn't. About as much they will ever contribute to 'international law.' The underlying fact remains that insofar as power projection is concerned, the US and to a lesser extent Britain and France, are the only game in town, and the war in Iraq was going to be won or lost with US military forces. "This is a recipe for failure and it has set back 'universal rights' and all that idealistic stuff by many years. The only hope, in my view, for interventions like this to have any hope of success is if there is broad international support and some basis in rule of law. Hence my advocacy for such international institutions as the ICC."More "international support" would not have stopped the Iraqi insurgency.The most ridiculous thing about your entire world view is you attack American motives with such cynicism, but then treat those that oppose it with such naievty. Hence, European politicians like Chirac and Schroeder, who had their own personal reasons to oppose the war, become benighted prophets of American well-being.
Damn. It's a weird day in the EB today. Nonetheless...Here's to Uncle Nippy. Captured in the Phillippines and survived the Bataan Death March to die an old man (86) in Buffalo, NY. He was one of the most vivacious, strong and amazing men I knew. Never was bitter or angry about his time. He suffered in silence his whole life from physical injuries from the war, but would never complain to anyone. He refused to have people worry about him or be a burden.Uncle Eddie was a flight engineer on a B-29 in the Pacific Theater. He made it through the Tokyo fire bombings and managed to get home in one piece. Died an old man in St. Petersburg, FL. Outstanding man. Family man. Aviator. Patriot. The penultimate flyboy was working with DC-3s for a regional airline up unti he died.Grandpa Joe was Army in WWII and drove a Jeep. Sicily and Anzio were notches in his belt. He served and came home to raise a wonderful family, including my pops. Never wanted to talk about the war much, Liked a bottle of Old Crow on Friday nights and listening to the St. Louis Cardinals play baseball on his shortwave radio in Buffalo. It was all about Stan Musial, the Magic Polack, that made him love the cards so. He was an intense man who had an unfiltered Pall Mall between his fingers at every waking moment. He left us at age 53 from a massive stroke.Those are the men who served in my family that have since left. I am happy that I cannot report on my pops, who is still here today. I'll tell you about his stint on a SAC base in '68-'70 supporting BUFFs on the Memorial Day after he is called up to be with Mom again.I have been blessed to not lose a friend or family member while serving. I cannot imagine the loss and the agony.With the Internet, where videos made by friends and loved ones for the fallen can be viewed by everyone, you get a taste. A taste of the pain and the pride. The sense of community and the abject loneliness of a spouse who suddenly joins the ranks of thousands who are stripped of a soul-mate in the flash of a muzzle, grenade or shell.This past few years, I find myself weeping for complete strangers with regularity. I am awed by their courage and their strength. These people know sacrifice.You may not believe it by my posts, but I despise war. I hate the concept of the "humanitarian war." I want war to be so overwhelming, brutal and unrelenting, that it ends quickly, and the horror of it lives in the world's memory for 1,000 years so it doesn't happen again.In this "Long War" I will always doubt, question, and challenge the politicians and their policies.But I will always love the The Warrior. I know him when I meet him and ask him "Why?""Because a job needed to be done, and I went and did it."Nothing more. Nothing less.Pure Love of Country Above Self.
cutler wrote:"The most ridiculous thing about your entire world view is you attack American motives with such cynicism, but then treat those that oppose it with such naievty. Hence, European politicians like Chirac and Schroeder, who had their own personal reasons to oppose the war, become benighted prophets of American well-being."No, sir, I think you have that wrong. My primary argument about why the US invasion and occupation is doomed to failure has little to do with the France and Germany's oil contracts and the US's lack of same but rather with the Iraqi perception that the US (by a HUGE margin the largest force involved) has interest in that oil, a very significant interest. That PERCEPTION alone - that the US has ulterior motives, whether true or not, is enough to scuttle the US project in Iraq. Bobl, A key element of the Oil law we are hoping the Iraqis put into law is the rights of foreigners in the whole process. Those rights are not insignificant.
"From their deaths must come a world where the cruel dreams of tyrants and terrorists are frustrated and foiled — where our nation is more secure from attack, and where the gift of liberty is secured for millions who have never known it," the president said.Helen Velasquez stood over her husband's grave in Farmington, N.M., and said he never second guessed his decision to enlist in the Marines. Frank Velasquez, 47, was disabled and died in March."I think a lot of people don't think of it until someone they love passes away," she said. "Sometimes I feel they're forgotten. I want them to know they're never forgotten."Memorial Day
Leftests and Pinkos..read it and weepThe principled new foreign minister shows how much France has changed of late.By Christopher HitchensPosted Monday, May 28, 2007One might add that Chirac quit the Élysée Palace looking and sounding like a stroke victim who had long ceased to have anything relevant to say and that Schröder disgraced the German Social Democrats by barely waiting to leave office before signing up as a lobbyist for a Russian-based energy cartel.The Worm Turns
Deuce sets up a high-minded memorial and the Westboro Baptist Church shows up and craps on the floor. Barkeep...a round for the veterans, living and dead. Thank you fellas.And give the preachers a dustpan and a mop, that steamy pile on the floor is stinkin the place up.
Don Botsford, John Klingenberg, Gene Jenista, Paul Saetveit and Phil Cote fought in the U.S. armed forces in different campaigns, in different parts of the world.On Monday they were together in a little green Jeep, riding in a parade, waving to people on the street.Jenista was with an anti-aircraft battalion that shot down nine German aircraft in the Battle of the Bulge, one of the bloodiest battles in World War II.Honoring their Fallen Comrades
"That PERCEPTION alone - that the US has ulterior motives, whether true or not, is enough to scuttle the US project in Iraq."It will fail because Sunni and Shi'ite, let alone Kurd, have no intention of living together on anything resembling equality under law.
And we have neither the ability nor the will to force them to.
Thanks, ash, whoever you are, for coming to the Memorial Day Picnic. Would've been most dull and bromide-laden without you. And what a shame that would've been. It's a day that deserves better.
lugh lampfhota,It was two fuck'n assholes, Trish and the little prick Ash.This day of thanks was a day for those two to protest and I'll be damned if I was gonna let it go unanswered.I will never ever give Trish an inch in which to breath on this site. I will make her my special project to harass. She is foul shit.Ash fits the same mold and will get no quarter from me. I will give each of them as much hell as I can dish out.Had this happened on the streets of DC I would be in jail right now for assault and battery. I will never let people crap on our sacred dead military men and women without calling them out, ESPECIALLY ON MEMORIAL DAY.Everyone lives somewhere and stealth is a fine art. Locating people is not a difficult thing. Just say'in. I'll call it my freedom of expression or "performance art"
"Everyone lives somewhere and stealth is a fine art. Locating people is not a difficult thing. Just say'in."Oh, please.
I used to wonder if Habu was a younger man than he suggested.But perhaps he's telling the truth about his age: young people know threatening people, regardless of how ambiguous, is ill-advised. The FBI (whose jumped in the middle of these things before) would find Habu quicker than he found anyone. Let's just calm down and ease into the work week...
That damned pot hole is gettin' bigger, alderman, what's up with that?Why, just yesterday, I saw three ethnicly profiled infiltrators climbin' out of it, like it was a tunnel to Mexico, or somethin'.
I'm afraid I'm an alderman that cannot refuse a request - probably to a fault.That pot hole will have both Pepsi and Coca-Cola vending machines installed beside it to serve those inconvenienced by it. The City's Casino Trust gets $.10 for every bottle sold. My goal is to make our Casino Trust into a Casino Trust Hedge Fund, although i admit I need to work on the name. But this is the 21st Century: we're mass-serving the public.Why, just a few minutes ago, I completed a deal with Coca-Cola to supply new machines within our temporary classrooms that actually sit on City (not School District) land. The thing is...we already got Pepsi to give us machines last year. In Silicon Valley, they call is scale, but in my shire, we just call it service! And because our contract specifies a vending service friendly to my interests, Corporate will never be the wiser.
Though, I've been listening and everyone is talking up parking decks as the cash cow of the moment. Its another way to ride the commuter gravy train.
I'm reading this white paper that says if you crack down on beer gardens, alcopop sales go up, and our tax revenue off those is larger, volume being equal. Little to no alcopop is ever sold at these beer gardens, which is a problem, I think. I kid you not, the tighter the regulations (short of outright ban) on beer garden sales, hours of operation etc, the higher the volume in the alcopops. I know we have a few of these in my Ward, and they are always bothering our white-table cloth constituents...Honestly, though, who comes up with this stuff? Everyone here should give taxing people a try. Its the other service to your community.
Alderman WilliamsAs Trish said so cavalierly,Oh please!Mr. Williams ...check
I can see Smooth Operator Habu now, rappelling down the side of my house, and attempting to breach in my window, only to be stuck halfway and nearly inverted on account of top-heaviness. His cursing and eventual cries for help would awake me and I'd help him in, comforting the ruddy oaf. His distant stares would be as if he were a grown man emerging from a week in the stockade. Some tea and a Victoria Silvestedt google image search and he'd be right as rain, though.
aldy, are you friends with the assessor, perhaps? If so, I might have a tri-mutually beneficial proposal to make, through an honest up standing public servant like yourself. Good for the entire community, we are the community, aren't we?
We are the outliers that skew mediocrity to greatness, Bobal. Be proud.
Get this: I can build a "health center" for under 500K. Just a bit of renovation some salaries to seed the place.I can then have that outfit buy prescription drugs at federal prices! Then the rest is history, my friend...Mumps in Ward 38, you say? I've got just the thing...
Damn, aldy, your cousin is in trouble again. Here Comes The Judge
alderman,threatening people, regardless of how ambiguous, is ill-advised. regardless of how ambiguous ...then how can it be a threat?"Mr. Habu,We want to know about your propensity toward ambiguity"....."take a hike dickhead"."We are charging you with being ambiguous""How's that?""Yes, we're not going to let ambiguity run wild in this country""Oh, so I can burn the American flag, but I can't be ambiguous""Well, yes""Say Mr. Lawdog, if I burned only half the flag wouldn't that be ambiguous?"Well, let me call headquarters"Alderman, you are an idiot..but in order to help relieve some of your idiocy please read:Quick definitions (ambiguous)adjective: having no intrinsic or objective meaning; not organized in conventional patterns (Example: "An ambiguous situation with no frame of reference") adjective: having more than one possible meaning (Example: "Ambiguous words") adjective: open to two or more interpretations; or of uncertain nature or significance; or (often) intended to mislead (Example: "The polling had a complex and equivocal (or ambiguous) message for potential female candidates") Word origin info is available.I hope this helps you get off of stupid. No I take that back,you're not stupid, you're a hoot.
aldy, Las Vegas is the place for you. Join your cousin.
Habu, you totally rock the bolding feature of HTML now. I believe bolding HTML is a sufficient condition for not being an idiot.If you want to Cochran your way out of your threats, that's cool, mang. I was referencing a norm you may have observed on the Internet, however - there also happens to be a law against doing that sorta thing, I think. But hey, you're a patriot.
...and, for the record, I am a man of peace.My intent would never be one of ambiguity but rather of ambiguity that is benign toward all those who also believe in the ambiguous. If done in any other fashion then ambiguity would lose all of it's core meaning and validity. Not to mention jeopardizing the veracity of ambiguity...and I think you'd agree that we can't have that happening.Right?
"there also happens to be a law against doing that sorta thing, I think.""I think"Now there's a moonwalk back from the precipice..nice MJ imitation!
Ive posted HERE and THERE and seen some shit. But none like the shit I've seen Habu Peristalt without so much as grimacing from the strain.I'd wager Habu's loads routinely disrupt Airplane toilets and modern hotel rooms alike. I think this may be his ESSENCE: causing John Robbs Systempunkts on plumbing and minds alike. Be warned!Ba'ahullajah!!!!
alderman "Hoot" williams
Habu the Unhinged A-hole has Become Habu the Funny Man.There's gotta be an Open Mic nite near you that could benefit. If you need an agent, let me know.And I've no idea what Michael Jackson reference you speak of.If its a quote, please bold it for better readability.Don't threaten people on the Internet; its like not threatening people in RL.
AspergersGentleman,Good to hear from you ole boy.It is always a pleasure reading your posts. They are the most unique I read anywhere. Even in pointing out the foibles of an individual there's something mesmerizing about your unique style.I hope you are doing well and in good health...whenever I read you it's like a flashback to a Fellini movie, a Dali painting, or burning braincells trying to fully understanding "A Critique of Pure Reason"
"Don't threaten people on the Internet"(that sounds like a threat)I have no idea what you're refering to.You mean these internet things aren't AI that don't require people? Gosh I've been under the wrong impression.
Habu, Acme defenses are never a match for roadrunners.
oops..."its like not threatening people in RL."something no one should ever do, they're so hollow and only a menacing blowhard would ever employ that.I think Nike has a logo saying that really covers the field just fine.
What field is that?The blah blah nips blah blah muzzies blah blah trish zipperhead field?
..or is it Puma or Adidas?
no,no,no...it's the bop-shu-bop-shu-bop muzzies and the dip-di-dip-di-dip pachucos....com'on keep upgood nite & a peaceful rest, tomorrow is another day.
I'm going to give Funny Habu a Z-visa but that other bustah...