“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.” - George W. Bush

All The Best


I want to thank everyone who participated in the Elephant Bar over the past twelve years. We had millions of visitors from all around the World and you were part of it. Over the past dozen years, two or three times a night, I would open my laptop and some of you were always there. I will miss that.

My plans are to continue my work with technology and architecture. You know my interests and thoughts.

At times, things would get a little rough in the EB. To those of you that I may have offended over the years, I apologize. From all of you, I learned and grew.

An elephant never forgets.
Be well.

Deuce, 21 June 2018

Wednesday, May 30, 2007

How Dare Bush Attack Real American Citizens...

..who have actually served in the military and did the right thing for their country? How dare he make light of the American people that see this bill for what it is, a fraud, amnesty and a slap in the face to real American citizens? How dare this foolish incompetent man push for a public taking of the accumulated wealth of law abiding Americans who did things according to the law by rewarding those that did not. How dare this un-read stubborn fool make claims to higher values than the people that erred in electing him to represent our values? How dare this disgraced and discredited peacock, entrusted to enforce all US laws, now lobby to change the laws he ignored, all to the detriment of American workers and lawful citizenry? How dare this shallow man, this vacuous president, so clearly unfit to lead, make a pretense to steer us forward? How dare this blind fool define a future American vision?

Bush Takes On Opponents of Immigration Deal

GLYNCO, Ga., May 29 — President Bush today accused opponents of his proposed immigration measure of fear-mongering to defeat it in Congress, and took on his own conservative political base as he did so.

“If you want to scare the American people, what you say is the bill’s an amnesty bill,” Mr. Bush said this afternoon at a training center for border enforcement agents located in this town in Georgia’s southeastern corner. “That’s empty political rhetoric, trying to frighten our citizens.”

The president used some of his toughest language yet as he began an effort to build support for the bill in the Senate. The measure hews closely to his long-sought goal of a new immigration system with three components: tighter seals on the nation’s borders, a guest-worker system for noncitizens who want to work here, and a path to citizenship for some 12 million illegal immigrants already in the country.

The bill, the product of a compromise struck by Republican and Democratic leaders two weeks ago, has encountered stiff resistance from the left and right. Liberal opposition taking aim at the proposal for shifting the system for awarding permanent residence status to give more weight to education and skills and less to family reunification, while conservatives have derided the plan for allowing illegal aliens to legalize their status.

It was the conservative opponents whom Mr. Bush seemed to address most forcefully in his remarks here today — a rare example of the president crossing swords with key members of the political coalition that helped him attain the Oval Office and then keep it four years later: The same conservative radio hosts, writers, bloggers, and legislators who killed an attempt at compromise immigration legislation last year.

Mr. Bush’s address came just as lawmakers have returned to their districts for a 10-day break from Washington to hear directly from constituents. It was during the late-spring recess last year that opponents of a similar bill barraged their Congressional representatives with complaints, especially about provisions they said amounted to amnesty for illegal aliens.

Then, with Congressional elections looming in the fall and his own party at risk of losing its majority, the president retreated.

But this year is an off year, electorally, and Mr. Bush appears determined to head off a similar outcome this time. In his remarks at the training facility here, he said that the bill includes strong measures to improve border security, and that it was now time to alleviate the pressure on the border by creating what he calls a new “rationalized” system.

“People in Congress need the courage to go back to their districts and explain exactly what this bill is all about,” Mr. Bush said. “The fundamental question is, will elected officials have the courage necessary to put a comprehensive immigration plan in place that makes it more likely we can enforce our border and, at the same time, uphold the great traditions of —— immigrant traditions of the United States of America.”

Mr. Bush’s address, given under a blazing Georgia sun before several hundred border enforcement agents and trainees, was the latest and most visible in a series of administration efforts to beat back critics, who administration officials say are misrepresenting the bill to the public.

In recent weeks, officials have given dozens of interviews on the subject to radio programs, editorial boards and newspaper reporters around the country.

But Mr. Bush and his allies on Capitol Hill are at a significant rhetorical disadvantage: conservative opponents can capture their objection to the bill in a single word — amnesty — while supporters are forced into the complex weeds of policy and the nuances of legislative language.


  1. Another endorsement from Richard Cohen:

    Bush the Neoliberal
    By Richard Cohen

    Years ago, someone coined the term "neoliberal." I was never sure what it meant, and it has since fallen into disuse, but whatever the case, I'd like to revive (and mangle) the term and apply it -- brace yourself -- to George W. Bush. He's more liberal than you might think.

    You recoil, I know. After all, the conventional wisdom is that Bush is the most conservative of all presidents, an advocate of limited government, minimal taxes and, when it comes to the quintessentially liberal concern with civil liberties, the man who gave us the twin black eyes of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. It's an appalling record.

    But consider this: An overriding principle of conservatism is to limit the role and influence of the federal government. Nowhere is this truer than in education. For instance, there was a time when no group of Republicans could convene without passing a resolution calling for the abolition of the Department of Education and turning the building -- I am extrapolating here -- into a museum of creationism.

    Now, though, not only are such calls no longer heard, but Bush has extended the department's reach in a manner that Democrats could not have envisaged. I am referring, of course, to the 2001 Elementary and Secondary Education Act, better known as No Child Left Behind. I will spare you the act's details, but it pretty much tells the states to shape up or face a loss of federal funds. It is precisely the sort of law that conservatives predicted Washington would someday seek -- and it did.

    Similarly, let's take a look at the much-mocked notion of diversity. Bill Clinton was widely berated for his effort to have an administration that looked like America -- women, African-Americans, Hispanics, you name it. Whether by design or not, Bush has also managed that feat. A female education secretary is one thing, but a national security adviser -- the uber macho post -- is something else, and that went first to Condi Rice. And over at Justice, Bush chose Alberto Gonzales, the son of Hispanic migrant workers and, incidentally, a lawyer with the singular gift of forgetting meetings he attended. (In private practice, did he forget to bill?)

    I am not suggesting that any of these appointees -- including Bush's former White House counsel, Harriet Miers -- are what is pejoratively known as affirmative action hires. I am suggesting, though, that Bush has not only diversified his Cabinet and staff but obviously got enormous satisfaction in doing so. You only have to listen to Bush talk about the virtues of immigration -- another liberal sentiment -- or his frequent mention of the "soft bigotry of low expectations" to appreciate that the president is a sentimental softie, what was once dismissively called a "mushy-headed liberal."

  2. "Disillusionment with the Administration has become widespread among the conservatives who once were Bush’s strongest supporters. Mickey Edwards, a former Republican congressman from Oklahoma, said recently, “The Republican Administration has shown itself to be completely incompetent to the point that, of Republicans in Iowa, fifty-two per cent thought we should be out of Iraq in six months.” Edwards, who left Congress in 1993 and now teaches at Princeton, is helping to lead an effort among some conservatives to curtail the President’s power in such areas as warrantless wiretapping. “This Administration is beyond the pale in terms of arrogance and incompetence,” he said. “This guy thinks he’s a monarch, and that’s scary as hell.” The grievances against the Administration seem limitless. Many congressional Republicans, for instance, were upset that Bush waited to fire Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld until after the midterm elections"
    implosion of Republican Party

  3. ..."Not since Watergate, Gingrich said, has the Republican Party been in such desperate shape. “Let me be clear: twenty-eight-per-cent approval of the President, losing every closely contested Senate seat except one, every one that involved an incumbent—that’s a collapse. I mean, look at the Northeast. You can’t be a governing national party and write off entire regions.” For this disarray he blames not only Iraq and Hurricane Katrina but also Karl Rove’s “maniacally dumb” strategy in 2004, which left Bush with no political capital. “All he proved was that the anti-Kerry vote was bigger than the anti-Bush vote,” Gingrich said. He continued, “The Bush people deliberately could not bring themselves to wage a campaign of choice”—of ideology, of suggesting that Kerry was “to the left of Ted Kennedy”—and chose instead to attack Kerry’s war record..."

  4. from the same article:

    "...Jeff Flake, a four-term congressman from Arizona, is one of the Republicans who have turned on the Administration. He is a Mormon, with five children, and his cheerful personality seems to have somewhat protected him from retribution from a Party leadership that doesn’t like what he’s saying. “The Republican Party has always had three tenets—economic freedom, limited government, and individual responsibility,” he told me not long ago. “If you look at any of those three issues lately, you’d be hard-pressed to say that the Republican Party really stands for any of them. Look at the growth of government. And I’m not just talking about war spending and homeland security. You can put that aside, and we’ve still grown substantially. Look at that tracking-poll question that’s always asked: ‘Whom do you trust more to manage the public’s finances, Republicans or Democrats?’ Republicans have always had a big edge there. And that has narrowed over the years, and now it’s reversed.”...

  5. and from the Washington Times we have this:

    " "If you want to kill the bill, if you don't want to do what's right for America, you can pick one little aspect out of it, you can use it to frighten people. Or you can show leadership and solve this problem once and for all," Mr. Bush said.
    The response to Republicans who say Mr. Bush wants amnesty for illegal aliens provoked the ire of conservative organizers and legislators alike.
    "That's hurtful language," said Sen. Jeff Sessions, Alabama Republican. "If the bill did what they promised it was going to do, I'd support it. I'm for comprehensive reform, but it has to serve the national interests, not political interest."
    "I don't think it's courage to support this flawed bill. I think sometimes it takes a bit of courage to resist this kind of short-term reform, so we can create a system that can actually work," Mr. Sessions said.
    Rep. Brian P. Bilbray, California Republican and chairman of the Immigration Reform Caucus, took issue with Mr. Bush's assertion that critics are objecting to a "narrow slice" of the bill.
    "Amnesty for 12-20 million illegal immigrants isn't a 'narrow slice' ... it's the whole darn pie," Mr. Bilbray said. "What part of illegal does the president not understand? The American people ... don't want another amnesty."
    Paul Weyrich, founder of the conservative Free Congress Foundation, said that "there are legitimate reasons to oppose this legislation, and I don't think that it behooves the president to call people names or make accusations against them if they disagree with him."
    "He is angering people beyond belief to the point that the Republican Party is going to split in two, thanks to him. If this bill passes, the Republicans will not recover from it," Mr. Weyrich said.
    An aide to one Republican senator who is usually a close White House ally said that Mr. Bush had questioned the patriotism of lawmakers who are concerned about granting amnesty to illegal aliens. "

  6. Mr Bush does not cae what the US people think, as long as his dog, Barney, stands by him, Mr Bush will stay the course.

    He got the cards, you see.

  7. Flake just figured out he's a RINO.
    Instead of a stalwart member of the party.
    He's out of step.

    Marching to the beat of an independent drummer, not a Republican one.

    The conservative movement in the US, hijacked by the skull and boners.

  8. Aristides said...
    Well said.

    Hatred wells up out of the village, contempt flashes back from the castle.

    Doug said...
    Well said.

    Applies in Spades to this *Outlaw* in the Whitehouse ONCE AGAIN denigrating the law abiding citizens that elected him, as he steals their wealth and treasure to scatter to the illegal rabble, the better to insure future Democrat Victories.

  9. “The Bush people deliberately could not bring themselves to wage a campaign of choice”—of ideology, of suggesting that Kerry was “to the left of Ted Kennedy”—and chose instead to attack Kerry’s war record..."

    Actually, I'd say the exact opposite but come to the same conclusion. It took an independent group, acting against the efforts of people like John McCain, to illuminate Kerry's vaunted history. (Which consisted in part of playing Kerry's words, which otherwise people never would have heard, on television. Proving that yeah, the Bush Administration is inept at politics.

  10. Encouraging statements from Ted Kennedy:

    "But even if a compromise is cobbled together, the senior senator from Massachusetts will not rest.

    "The day it passes we're going to put in legislation to try to fix it," he said in a telephone interview yesterday from his family's Hyannisport compound. The bill is good for now, but it could be better, he said."

    I can't wait.

    And on chain immigration:

    "Here’s a article on chain migration among Hispanic immigrants in the United States. The piece gives supporters and opponents of the practice a chance to sound off. To me, the picture it paints is far from comforting. The article focuses on the story of one man, Pablo Baltazar, legalized in the 1986 amnesty. Baltazar was able to bring over the entire, extended Baltazar family by importing all nine of his siblings, followed by their spouses, and children. More disturbing–and in a clear echoing of the European pattern–the article notes, "Chain migration has cleared out entire village in Mexico. And it has turned areas of rural North Carolina into places where Spanish is the dominant language."

    That is the heart of the problem. Not only does chain migration make nonsense of numerical limits, it transfers entire extended clans–even whole villages–from one country to another. By setting up a little world that’s culturally and linguistically just like the originating country, chain migration effectively blocks assimilation.

    Amnesty isn’t the only serious danger in this bill. If either the Clinton or Obama amendments pass, the story of the Baltazar clan will be magnified many times over. But the kicker is that, while claiming to end chain migration, the immigration bill as written will actually accelerate extended family reunification (by clearing out the huge existing applicant backlog) for the next eight years. So even without the Clinton and Obama amendments, we are looking at a chain migration fiasco."

  11. Please add a sane comment here to the string of dribble.
    RELENTLESSLY Staying on message at BC, ignoring the Elephant giving away the Room, House, Statehouse, COUNTRY.
    Doug said at BC...

    People obsessively think about democrats to better IGNORE el Presidente giving away a Priceless Gift bestowed upon us with the blood and sacrifice of our ancestors.

    Like Sheep to the Slaughter.

    DEMAND that your representatives uphold the law and require King Jorge to honor his oath of office.

    Turn up the heat.

  12. Devastating stuff Cutler.
    Spread the word.
    But of course our new friends will save the Country in a mere 4 generations by breeding debris with the LOWEST HIGHSCHOOL GRADUATION rate of any demographic.

    While trashing the educational opportunities for the rest.

  13. Sorry to say. I just don't believe the politicians anymore. The Bush administration has had six years to do something about illegal immigration but all we got were empty promises. When the Federal Government refuses to enforce the immigration laws which are already on the books, why should we believe they will do so now?

    Screw them all.

  14. "Screw them all. "
    You lose, Whit:

    Bush beat you to it,

  15. On a Hugh Hewitt podcast, I heard a Border Patrol instructor say that the Border Patrol can't deport an illegal with a ten or fifteen year record of misdemeanors. You have to be a murderer to get deported by this government.

    Well, what are they going to do when millions stop paying their taxes?

    They let millions of illegals cross the border. Tonight Fox News reported that 60% of Latinos support Hillary. That's great! Goodbye Republican party. Goodbye conservative values. The man most despised by the BDS sufferers has been their greatest ally.

  16. SO revealing that I was studiously IGNORED when I pasted Deuce's great piece at Belmont.

    Persistent in their total

    ...and the futures of our offspring/freedom's last Beacon.

  17. Pasted that there Whit.
    Will be interesting to see if any of the
    Academic Bastards in Denial Inc

  18. That's the new found RINO in you speaking, whit.

    All you have to do is moderate your position, give a little.

    So many people never believed what Mr Bush said. It did not fit their predisposition, and so was rejected.

    Basic things, as in enforcing the Law, or the Religion of Peace.
    What Mr Bush said and did, was done in full view, but denied by many viewers.

    As Mr Lincoln said, you can't fool all the people, all the time.

    Mr Bush has been exposed, as the Liberal Internationalist that he is. More folk see it, with each passing day. Proof is in the pudding, get a good whiff.

    A study by the Heritage Foundation takes a look at the bill's most controversial component.

    The New Bill's Burden
    By granting amnesty to illegal immi­grants and creating massive new "guest worker" programs, the new legislation, if enacted, would impose massive costs on the U.S. taxpayer.
    Latest Research and Numbers
    Chart: Costs High for Taxpayers

    A Bill That Earned Its Doubters

    Heritage Table

  20. Belmont and Flares are like the Japs in the 60's still fighting WWII!

  21. From Kudlow:

    TC said...
    Kill two birds with one stone - Give Southern California to Mexico then enforce our damned laws!

    From the L.A. Times

    1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County ( L.A. County has 10.2 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
    2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
    3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens
    4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal , whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
    5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
    6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
    7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
    8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
    9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.
    10. In L.A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.

    Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare.

    Over 70% of the United States ' annual population growth (and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York ) results from immigration.

    29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.

    3:12 PM

    LFC said...
    29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.

  22. Wretch is obsessed with Good and Evil.
    Won't be no more Good to be obsessed with when the USA is gone.

  23. Behind the curve, doug.
    Readership, way down.

    Reactionaries, now, they are so far behind.

    Trumpeting the failure to disrupt the Tribes of Anbar, as success.

    When, in truth, it is a total rout of US policy in Iraq. Vis a vie '03, a total defeat.

    The Tribes represented yesterday's Iraq, not fit for US support. Undemocratic forces, the tribes were then considered, now the bestest allies. Where all US hope now resides. With our enemies.

    But, oh, all we've learned ...

  24. #1.
    Is reason #1, blacks lost all hope in the Ghettos, when almost all opportunities were stolen by ILLEGALS.

  25. With Govts Blessings,
    nay, incentives and ENCOURAGEMENT.

  26. Kevin had a comment on the tribes that said as much.
    IGNORED, as I recall, except by me.

  27. Doug Waltzes in the Graveyards of our Future.

  28. When we leave, them friendly allied tribes and the Sunnis are gonna have a lovefest that will put the 60's to shame, 'Rat!

  29. MySA.com: Metro State
    Breaching America: War refugees or threats?
    ... Todd Bensman San Antonio Express-News.
    5 Part Series.
    A Lovechild for the New Age of Mo and Castro

  30. Maybe the Greatest Feat in Human History. Maybe the Dumbest.
    Hmmm, Hewitt hasn't posted on immigration in some time.
    Must have been "reminded" to get back on the reservation.

    Singing words of wisdom,
    Harriet Miers!

  31. Do as the chicken hawks say, not as they do, doug.

    Then you'll see the light.

    Listen to Mrs Cheney, an expert on child rearing and education, her family values training, obviously, a step ahead of the masses.

    But then it is rhetoric, not results, that we measure for sincerity. In the post modern age

    Results and performance are secondary, to rhetoric.

  32. Funny you should mention the sudden absence of comment from Hewitt about amnesty for law breaking gate crashers.

  33. Buchanan is stil up to form:
    "Who would lay down his life for the UN, EU or a ‘North American Union?’... Every true nation is the creation of a unique people, separate from all others. Indeed, if America is an ideological nation grounded no deeper than in the sandy soil of abstract ideas, she will not survive the storms of this century any more than the Soviet Union survived the storms of the last...
    -- State of Emergency

  34. We are the World

    Get used to it.

    It's a brave new world.

  35. Just look at the range of the debate.

    To even suggest a program to discourage the employment of infiltrators, or promote their voluntary return to their country of origin, declared impossible by the President.

    He just can't enforce the Law, it's impossible, he says.

    Accept them or be declared unAmerican, a vigilante.

    Mr Bush, "conservative".

  36. You don't here much of BDS lately.

  37. And we all know how prescient georgie boy is. He was in love with Vladi after Vincente after Dickie and before Teddie, I think:

    "POTSDAM, Germany (Reuters) - Russia and the United States sparred over Kosovo and U.S. missile shield plans on Wednesday, souring a meeting aimed at preparing the ground for next week's Group of Eight summit on the Baltic coast.

    Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov spoke bluntly on disagreements over Kosovo, a major irritant in Russia's relations with the European Union and the United States. He also traded barbs on Lebanon and the missile shield."

  38. His favorite movie, Tancredo said, is "True Grit," a tale starring an aging John Wayne about a quest for justice in the Old West.

    His favorite food?

    "Mexican," Tancredo said, smiling at the irony as he polished off his latte and headed for another campaign event.

    Immigration Debate

  39. Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation says this is a dangerous time for bad policy. He says Bush is pushing it down the throats of Republicans who if the President were a Democrat could unite against him. This bill will immediately put 8 to 9 million people into Social Security and Medicare. 60% of them are high school dropouts who will pay virtually nothing into the system but in 30 years will begin to draw $17K per year from an already bankrupt system. The cost for this group alone will be $2.5 trillion dollars.

    And how will they vote?

  40. Rector says that the US will be able to accomplish virtually nothing that is in this bill. He says all the enforcement provisions are already on the books. We know they're not being enforced.

    I heard elsewhere that the background check on this group of millions must be performed in two days for each person. Impossible!

    Illegals of all nationalities (think jihadi) will be washed through a sham two day background check and from that point forward will be undeportable unless they are found to be breaking the law.

  41. Hey, hey, hey Whit. Wait just a minute there. C'mon now. It's not about money. It's about compassion. Reach into your heart. Sheesh.

  42. I thought I heard a 1 day turnaround on the background check.

  43. I'm not against immigration. Just illegal immigration. As far as my wallet is concerned, I like to decide where my money goes.

    Doug: You're right! The BC crowd stay on topic and since Wretchard is way off in the Pacific, he's doesn't appear overly concerned with the issue.

  44. I knew that, no need to apologize.

  45. Whit,
    If you're gonna fuck'em all you better start working on priapism.

    But I'd definitely consult your doctor, oh , and stay away from Barney Frank and I'm sure several others.

  46. I have just got back from showing an apartment I have for rent.
    Two girls, separate inquiries, separate girls with different moms, that have money and are going to law scchool, and a Navy guy and his wife, that only want to rent for 6 months. That puts the squeeze on me, because I know my area, and it is hard to rent here in the middle of the winter. I am going with the Navy guy and his girl. If you know me, I don't think highly of lawyers. But I think highly of a Navy man, and his wife.

  47. Benito, a 50-year-old man from Honduras, was just as blunt. He said the economic situation in his country was so dire that he recently left his family and small cattle farm to seek his fortune as an illegal worker in the United States, even as the government is cracking down on such workers and their employers.

    "Believe me, we all want to be legal. It is much harder now to get real jobs because the companies are all afraid," he said, referring to work site raids and arrests by immigration agents across the country in recent months.

    "It was a very difficult decision to come here, and I would love to have steady work. But if there is no guarantee I can come back, I am not interested."

    7-letter Word

  48. 2164,

    Some of the best posting I've ever seen here. Is it as hard for you to type while seething over this Amnesty deal as it is for me?

    I write the Hill everyday. The President also.

    I think we can beat this thing especially after Bush's Glynco Gaff.

    Good work Deuce & Whit

  49. I may be wrong, but I feel the ice breaking on this insane amnesty deal. I think the letters and calls are having some effect. Keep it up!

  50. Besides, this Navy guy is from Montana! You listening, Tater?

  51. Sure Bush can call me un-patriotic because I believe S1348 is wrong, but I'll call him a betrayer of trust of the people who brung him to the dance. He is also a piss poor leader, a traitor to the Constitution and inarticulate as a crack whore.

    I helped bring the bastard to the dance but I'm not taking the prick home. He can walk and take his chances with the thugs on the road.

    This is my country until I say it isn't. And if I have to take up arms to demonstrate that fact then so be it.

    The pricks in Washington better stand down on S1348.

  52. I'm in good company with Charles Krauthammer and Dennis Prager who say. "First, control the border, then we can talk about what to do with the illegals who are already here."

    That's what we said last time...

    They did not listen and they're not listening now.

  53. In the 1960s, farm labor leader Cesar Chavez rallied fieldhands to speak out against a guest worker program that recruited millions of Mexicans to pick crops at low wages.

    Today, farmworker advocates are throwing their weight behind a proposal in the current Senate immigration bill that would bring thousands of laborers to the country's most productive fields but offer them virtually no chance of putting down roots in the U.S.

    The United Farm Workers say it is their best shot at improving working conditions in fields nationwide, and especially in California, where 92 percent of workers are foreign-born.

    Worker Provisions

  54. It is kinda funny and kinda sad watching all the vitriol spewed Bush's way from you 'rightwingers'. For years I've argued that Bush's policies have been wrong headed and, ironically, pretty left oriented. Traditionally it was the 'left' who supported Israel, the 'left' who wanted to extend 'universal human rights', the left who wanted to use American power to 'help' folks in other parts of the world, and Lou Dobbs, a 'lefty' has been spending an hour a day wailing about the immigrants stealing american jobs. Traditionally the 'right' has been 'free traders', 'pro business', 'anti-union', and 'balanced budge'. But reading you guys here, well, it is kinda sad, kinda funny, watching proponents of the left/right divide, the life long republicans railing on about open free borders, business hiring freely, protecting Israel at whatever cost, yelping for the state to peer into individual lives (i.e. abortion) and urging US armed force be deployed to bring freedom everywhere all the while getting their knickers in a knot over free speaking folk while talking out the other side of the mouth lamenting the PC world.

    It has been an interesting few years indeed!

  55. That is impossible, whit.

    Mr Bush said so.
    Just not possible.

    Get used to it.

    Mr Bush gets his way, or continues on the present course. 4,000 a day, comin' north.

    Day after day.

    Nothing can be done, it's just to hard.

    If we were to enforce the Law, Mr Bush says it would damgae the "soul" of the United States, I shit you not.

    "... I also know that if we don't solve the problem it's going to affect America. It will affect our economy and it will affect our soul. And people need to do the hard thing.

    Suffer for America boys, you all need to sacrifice for the "New World Order".

    Take a deep breathe,
    then vote Republican Values
    vote Foley

  56. "We know it is a fact. We have undocumented workers working in our fields. But if we can't get our own crops harvested then where is our food going to come from?"

    From your own labor, smuck, as I have done, and without ruining our democracy in the process. Work, let it be said, is not the worst thing in the world.

    Ash, while I like you, you are not making any sense lately.

  57. oh ya, there's more...

    just rule of law, that's it, that's what we 'righties' are all aobut - just enforce the laws on the books. Welllll, how about Bushes other imperial transgressions? His other laws ignored/violated? Spying on Americans with no court order? Indefinite detention with no due process? Torture? Violations of trade agreements? International covenants? All in the name of protecting America - no problem but the hew and cry over the border laws - biggo problem. Where is the consistency in thought? Why the hypocrisy?

  58. bobal,

    I like you too dude. Sense? Well, things have been upside down and backassward for years now with many, many, locked into the dichotomy of left vs right, repub vs dem. People are convinced of what team they are on yet their is little to no consistency in the ideas expressed - attached to the 'left' or the 'right'. It appears to be stawmen set up to whack down. It is, frankly, and appalling political dialogue.

    rah rah - go team!

  59. I objected to not prosecuting Mr Pedilla, early on.

    There are often sacrifices needed in the name of security, ash. How long and what sacrifices are required, have been debated and voted upon. The Law has not been grossly violated by the Administration in any of the cases you mentioned.

    The unsecure border is a direct security issue. Both in regards terrorism and more common criminal behaviours. Since EVERY infiltrator is a de faco criminal, despite Federal attempts to change that reality.

  60. There was a time when the country laughed at Seward's Folly which turned out the be a geat investment. Now, if we had any sense, we should be calling this BUSHES FOLLY, and those of us with a memory, will be recalling it so, in future years.

  61. I know I've mentioned this before but I believe it's worth repeating.

    Bush, by ALLOWING the 12 million illegals to enter this country with what has to be his FULL knowledge is easily in an impeachable position. The only faly in the ointment is the question of whether it would benfit the country as a whole.

    His time is short and I do believe he sucked the last tiny bit of any political capital he had left in Glynco ,Georgia.

    The country already has such little faith in our government that another impeachment could be dangerous to good order.

    I think we have to go back to LBJ to find a comparable Peter Principle in full bloom.

    I doubt if there is one contributor to this blog that doesn't believe in LEGAL immigration. It has been the oxygen that keeps this country alive. But legitimizing wholesale illegal immigration goes against our sense of fair play.

    Bobalharb is right when he says we're forcing cracks in the foundation of this mendacious legislation ... but the race isn't done so keep up the efforts.

    Peter Principle

    Bob-L ..I'll get the word to Tater when he gets back from da bog. Montana man..good on ya.

  62. Ash-- I MAY BE WRONG HERE, BUT I PICKED UP THAT YOU MAY BE CANADIAN--IF I AM WRONG FORGIVE ME--but if I am right, then you just go ahead and volunteer to take twenty million illiterate Mexicans with a chip on the shoulder in CALGARY. It's ok, it would be all right with us.

  63. Eliyahu advocates carpet bombing Gaza... yipee at least one other in favor of carpet bombing..in honor of that I offer this...

    Boom Boom

  64. Ash, as your post is so expansive, if I addressed it in full it'd probably go into a number of pages. So I'll just answer shortly, by saying that much of your assertions conflate different types of Republicans and Conservatives. There's also different philosophical strands - Libertarians, Paleo-Conservatives, Neo-Conservatives, the Religious Right, and every other odd and distinct part of what is a very diverse movement that has supported Bush in various policies.

    Some Libertarians (like the CATO guys or the Wall Street editorial board, for example) believe in such things as open borders because they see individuals as interchangeable goods. They are also very much free-trade. To Paleo-Conservatives like a Buchanon both of these are anathema. Libertarians also believe heavily in individualism, something sometimes at odds with more nationalistic members.

    There's also big differences between small-government conservatives who believe in federalism and separated powers, and big government conservatives who believe in harnessing government power for their own ends. There's economic supply siders who don't believe that budget deficits are a problem, and those who do. And competing ways of addressing them them (i.e. supply siders who believe in the Laffer Curve, arguments over where hte optimal Laffer Curve tax rate is, and old-school tax raisers.

    Foreign policy splits between interventionists and isolationists, hard realists and Neo-Conservatives, pragmatists, etc, etc. And everything in between. So some of these supposed inconstencies are no doubt the result of trial and error (See Iraq), but many were always there the entire time, just relatively muted. There's also always the tension between libertarian beliefs and the demands of wartime, so it isn't surprising that Americans would be inconstent in their application of peacetime principles to wartime demands.

    On some things, you're also missing why people can believe what are to you two mutually exclusive things, because you just don't understand the line of logic. For example, individual rights and abortion. Most pro-lifers however, believe that it is a question of whether the woman has a right to kill a second life, since they believe the fetus is itself an individual worthy of being protected by the government.

    For another example, there's the conflation of international law with domestic American law. Some bleieve the former does not even exist in the strictest sense, in the absence of any enforcement body or mutual social contract. And that in spite of futile attempts to codify it, the misnamed 'international law' is actually a set of internal customs, which are constantly changing with the historical context and the nature of the entities that enforce it. American law, of course, derives from the Constitution. They are not necessarily parallel or even compatible.

    The tension between the acceptance of universal rights (as expressed in the Declaration of Independence) and the ends of American foreign policy go all the way back to the foundation of the Republic.


    In retrospect, not exactly that short.

  65. Author Bernard Chapin interviews Mark Steyn:

    BC: Mr. Steyn, congratulations on the success of America Alone. Sales remain strong seven months the book's release. What in its message so captivates readers?

    Mark Steyn: I think my book repositions the war on terror within a broader context, which is exactly what a lot of people are looking for. The immediate visceral anger after September 11th has now dissipated; one simply can't remain angry for five years straight.


    BC: Why does demographic change equate with political change? Also, what would you say to those who believe that majority Islam is not synonymous with fundamentalist Islam?

    Mark Steyn: Fundamentalist is a term we use rather carelessly. Very few people take the trouble to become suicide bombers and that's good news, but the reality is that substantial numbers of Muslims agree with the aims of the Jihadists even if they don't choose to blow themselves up.


    BC: How much is the soft-socialism of the welfare state to blame for the West's reproductive failure?

    Mark Steyn: Well, I do believe that eventually the nanny state turns us all into children so when grown ups become children then it is not astonishing for them to become disinterested in having children of their own.

    Demography Destiny?

  66. Too Late for Talks with a Hamas Bent on Helping Iran Build Gaza into an Anti-US Anti-Israel Base, option 1 it appears

    Home Front Command to get public ready for 'all-out war'

    "It appears to be stawmen set up to whack down. It is, frankly, and appalling political dialogue."

    Would this be similar to comparing Islam to other religions such as Christianity or Buddhism to be PC?

    That international list of christian terror organizations committing violence across the globe in the name of Christ?

    i have far to go and much to learn, teach me

    "Where is the consistency in thought? Why the hypocrisy?"

  67. One of the few things that I want to do with the rest of my life--besides tending the garden--and there isn't much left of my life --is to keep reading the good books that my library provides, vote my conscience, and buy a really good telescope, and head south, to the Nevada desert, not Las Vegas, that suck hole, with a camper, and get friendly with the skies. And wonder!

  68. elijah--I've read a lot of religion in my life--and a lot of history too--I think that the only bastards left around, religion wise, are the muzzies. We have to protect ourselves against them, and I wish you and your people well. I don't know what the final truth is about things, but I do know what a civil society is, and I am for that. We must work together for that.

  69. Nine men accused of stockpiling bomb-making chemicals and plotting to avenge perceived injustices against Muslims pleaded not guilty to all charges Thursday in Australia's largest alleged terrorist conspiracy.

    The men, all Muslims, are charged with conspiring between June 2004 and November 2005 to carry out an attack with bombs or other weaponry to advance a "political, religious or ideological cause." If convicted, they face a maximum penalty of life in prison.

    Their lawyers have steadfastly maintained their clients' innocence, saying the chemicals found at their homes were for ordinary household or industrial uses.

    Not Guilty Plea

  70. It's a hard case, Sam, but I'm sure they are guilty. My grandfather and some of the other farmers here used to make fertilizer bombs to blow the tree stumps out of the ground. It is an art that has fallen by the wayside with the coming of the Caterpillar tractor, but that is what they used to do, to clear the land.

  71. Sometimes predictions are just wrong.

    "Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value."
    -- Marechal Ferdinand Foch, Professor of Strategy, Ecole Superieure de Guerre.

    "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
    -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

    "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
    -- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977

    "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us."
    -- Western Union internal memo, 1876

    "Stocks have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau."
    -- Irving Fisher, Professor of Economics, Yale University, 1929.

    "George W.Bush will go down in history as our best President"
    --- C.U. Nethercutt-Thompson, Kennebunkport Sailing Club

  72. They were having a go around at the Belmont Club the other day about the drawings and instructions for torture that were found in one of the raided houses in Iraq by US troops. The discussion was about how absolutely aweful these pictures and instructions were.

    While I agree with most of what they said, I think it is good to keep in mind that such things have happened in the western world, ad nauseum.

    I am reading a book about the poet John Donne, who was a Catholic in Elizebethan England in his youth. He later changed sides, but things were tough then, and some of the descriptions of how the Catholics were treated were on a par with whatever the muzzies can dole out. I think we should keep that in mind, lest we revert to the bad old ways of our ancestors. Civilization is a thin coat of paint.

    While the tortures of the muzzies seem to take place in isolation, many of the tortures in Elizabethan England were done right out there in the public square. We should remember these things about our past.

  73. John Donne, my book tells me, was one of the first to speak out against the torture that was the usual tactic in his day, on the same grounds as today, that it is disgusting and inhumane, and very little if any truth is gathered by the method.

  74. In those days, they were not torturing someone to find out if a nuke is in Chicago, but rather, if incense had been burned to the Virgin Mary, and so forth.

  75. Bobal,

    I'm an American currently residing in Canada.


    Good post and it reflects the problems I see with the dichotomy so many perpetuate pegging most every issue as left vs right, liberal vs conservative, and Dem vs Repub. The either or ideologically driven debate is rather useless in my view.


    I hear what you are saying about the 'criminals'. There is a real problem given their numbers. Do we really want to try to create a top down, federal driven system where every American must have an identity card with a 'force' rounding up and deporting all who fail the 'test' outside our 'sealed' borders? It strikes me as an untenable solution to the problem. It also appears to be diametrically opposed to the free market small government ideological POV.

  76. No, that is not what's needed, ash.

    The system is already in place, to monitor workplace enforcement.
    Quarterly tax reconciliations, through SS account numbers.

    False, or duplicate account filings are all that would be needed to initiate an inspection of the workplace.
    As enforcement escalated, those in the country illegally would depart, to return under whatever work or immigration program could be agreed upon.

    Start with proving the ability to enforce the "old" laws, before expanding the scope of the challenge with the "new".

  77. Those I know who hire illegals simply pay cash. The employer can't write off the expense but they seem to find it worthwhile nonetheless.

  78. Some day laborers get cash, ash. But here where the challenge is mature, we've moved way beyond cash payments to payroll checks on false accounts. You'd find the same in AK chicken processing plants and most other industrial settings.

    You're way behind on that learning curve, amigo.

    I know of bunches of fellows with false papers, it's a growth industry.

  79. I certainly don't dispute that DR- that the graft is on a truly corporate scale. My experience is only with the small builders, small business, just folks looking to get a job done well and for a good price. My experience is also only second hand, through beers and talk as opposed to hands on.

    Funny enough, years ago, I did some big corporate work for big tobacco. The head honcho now up on charges for illegal importation of tobacco products to Canada. Nothing to do with me but, at the time I did my thing, the trade was big, and the word was, 'oh ya, its just business'.