The Star-Ledger of Newark reported on its Web site that the men had agreed to buy AK-47 assault rifles from an arms dealer who was secretly cooperating with the FBI. The Star-Ledger report cited a law enforcement source granted anonymity because the source was not authorized to speak about the arrest. CBS
The newspaper reported that the men had videotaped their training sessions in the Poconos. The video eventually led to their arrests as the men brought the tape to a retail store seeking to have it burned to a DVD, the newspaper reported, citing its source.
(CBS/AP) Six nationals of the former Yugoslavia were arrested early Tuesday on charges they plotted to attack the Fort Dix Army base and "kill as many soldiers as possible," federal authorities said.
The six were scheduled to appear in U.S. District Court in Camden later Tuesday to face charges of conspiracy to kill U.S. servicemen, said Michael Drewniak, a spokesman for the U.S. Attorney's Office in New Jersey. Five of them lived in Cherry Hill, he said.
nothing in what I have read about this says these guys are islamic....wanna bet?
ReplyDeleteYugoslovia, there has not been a Yigoslavia for a decade.
ReplyDeleteThese suspects cannot be from a place that no longer exists.
Serbians, Bosnians, Macadonians, wonder which it is, and which the Feds do not want "US" to know
Meanwhile:
ReplyDeleteBy Richard Cowan
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The second-ranking Republican in the U.S. Senate said on Monday there must be "significant changes" in Iraq well before the end of the year, signaling President George W. Bush could face new challenges on war policy from members of his own party.
Sen. Trent Lott of Mississippi, who holds the No. 2 leadership position in his party, made his comments a day after similar remarks by another powerful Republican lawmaker, House Leader John Boehner of Ohio.
"I do think this fall we've got to see some significant changes in the situation on the ground, in Baghdad and other surrounding areas ... or else," Lott told reporters.
On top of what John Boehner said just yeasterday. August or September.
westhawk thinks that Mr Gates will demand a new course, or resign.
Seems that the civilian leadership takes General P at his word, that military victory is not in the cards.
Political victory still seems elusive, even if reporting matrix make it appear violence is ebbing. Depends on the definition of violence, what deaths and incidents are included, and which are excluded, from the military tally.
Hit Iran Now says prof.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, Herod's Tomb has been found. It was better to be Herod's dog than his son, it was said.
Those yugos turn out to be Albanians (presumably ex-Kosovars)
ReplyDeleteSome of the would-be attackers have been illegally in the United States, while others are illegal immigrants, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office. Four are ethnic Albanians, one was born in Turkey, and a sixth was born in Jordan
Star Ledger
Here is the complaint Islamic guest from Cherry Hill
ReplyDeletePeople have no idea what gushes from the cesspool of Albania.
ReplyDeleteSo this thwarted terrorist strike is credited to the US intervention in the Bosnia vs Serbia civil war, not either the Afghan or Iraq civil wars. This is good, another
ReplyDeleteterrorist plot not associated with the Religion of Peace, at all.
Just another episode in the decade long Bosnian occupation.
Rat,
ReplyDeleteLate last night I made a rather happy prediction for ash.
Here's what's going to happen:
Come September, Petraeus will do what he's paid to do - that is, he will speak his mind. He will tell the administration, before he tells Congress, that the Surge (which wasn't his plan to begin with) is not working as hoped and that it's time to change mission and draw down troops. The President CAN say no, in which case Petraeus prepares to resign. The President will not say no (I assume he's still got all his marbles) and a new mission, with new troop levels, will be brought out. Petraeus will be in charge of the transition. (Rat was partly right.)
One of the interesting things about this is how it will change the debates for both Democrats and Republicans, a little more than a year out from the elections.
Tue May 08, 12:28:00 AM EDT
trish said...
And think about this: It will be the FIRST real change of mission we've had in Iraq since 2003. Overdue, but I won't complain.
Tue May 08, 12:37:00 AM EDT
At this point, I'd lay money on it, based on what is known about Petraeus and what is known about the Surge. So while rarely, if ever, inclined to optimism in matters concerning Iraq (or Afghanistan) I'm now reasonably confident that come autumn, we'll get a new mission. And a new narrative.
and to drag up my sunny tues. am response:
ReplyDelete" trish,
I'll log that post of yours back in the dusty caverns of my mind and watch to see how events unfold. I hope the CIC has control/possession of his marbles because, in my view, something along those lines is the only plausible way forward.
Tue May 08, 11:01:00 AM EDT "
"People have no idea what gushes from the cesspool of Albania."
ReplyDeleteLike the highly esteemed Mme Albright said: What good's this army you're always telling us about if we can't use to give the Albanian mafia and its AQ buddies a helping hand?
This is good, another
ReplyDeleteterrorist plot not associated with the Religion of Peace, at all.
Well the AP might not admit that these guys are Mohammedans. But others already have.
"They were planning an attack on Fort Dix in which they would kill as many soldiers as possible," Drewniak said.
The suspects were described as "Islamic radicals" by a Greg Reinert, a spokesman for the United States Attorney's Office. A law enforcement source told FOX News that said all of the suspects recent converts and were not born Muslims.
The source told FOX News that there were between five and six arrests; the exact number is unclear.
But you are correct in a sense. This event won't dissuade any of the ROP pundits from their rosy views of Islam, because the terrorist incident was nipped in the bud. Only a major blood letting on US soil (on the scale of 9/11) will open the eyes of the deniers.
I'll keep the champagne on hand, ash, and we'll all have a toast to Better Late Than Never.
ReplyDeleteWell, dear trish, I think so, If Mr Lott and boehner are laying the groundwork, today.
ReplyDeleteIt is depressing, though in that it'll be portarayed as US falling short. If Mr Bush were to changethe narrative, now, there'd be more gained, both in Iraq and in DC. As well as Main Street USA.
The security agreement, held by the UN comes up for review in June, I think. The President should be prepping the ground for an announcement, then. Not wait until events dictate a reaction, it's better to act, then react.
Who Dares Wins
People have no idea what gushes from the cesspool of Albania.
ReplyDeleteIt ain't pretty. Trafficking drugs, guns and women (aka "white slavery" in another age).
Virtually all Albanians are nominally Islamic. In the past they have been rather lapsed (placing more stock in the Canon of Lek than koran, as well as clan affiliation) but there is plenty Saudi/wahabbist money erecting mosques and generally being busy in Albania and Kosovo (as well as Bosnia).
If the guys were described as ex-Yugoslavs then I expect they were refugees back in the 90's, although Yugoslavia still technically existed until Montenegro left a year or two ago, and they still could be Albanians from the Presevo valley adjacent to Kosovo.
"It is depressing, though in that it'll be portarayed as US falling short. If Mr Bush were to changethe narrative, now, there'd be more gained, both in Iraq and in DC. As well as Main Street USA."
ReplyDeleteWell, changing the narrative now would look like pulling the rug out from under an ongoing campaign. Or worse, implying failure before the man himself reports back. I understand needing to avoid these.
Far better for the Republicans that this is the way things pan out - the alternative (another year of the SOS) would be an absolute disaster. Even moreso, of course, for the country and the military.
So while this should have taken place last year, the year before, the year before that (take your pick) it didn't. Some points may be granted for finally taking steps to remove us from an entirely undesirable and exhausting position.
Announce today the success of the Iraqi forces, and the year end turnover of the Security Mission to their authority.
ReplyDeleteDo that today and it strengthens the resolve of the current effort, as efforts' success is assumed, not left to events to decide.
Command from a position of conviction and faith in the troops to meet the training and handover target dates. As well as securing the streets of Baghdad. A police function. Let's set that targeted turnover date, today. Not wait until a report of limited success and counter balancing shortfalls is brought forward.
The power of the Presidency is in the ability to shape events, not being buffetted by them. Getting ahead of the curve, not perpetually behind it.
Petraeus will be indispensable to the administration for political cover for a change of mission - the admin has never had that before and surely this is one of the chief reasons they've avoided doing so when otherwise reasonable opportunity presented itself in the past. They had no commander to say, "Look, we gave it our best shot and now it's time to move on to a different set of objectives." The widely-respected Petraeus will be the focus and agent of change - and, really, who's going to complain? Main Street U.S.A. will say Amen along with everybody else but a handful of folks at the Weekly Standard.
ReplyDelete"Announce today the success of the Iraqi forces..."
ReplyDeleteNot to put too fine a point on it, Rat, but that would be one whopper of an untruth that wouldn't pass anyone's muster.
The President cannot really get out in front of events before the grace period he has granted ends in September. One more summer of our discontent; I can't really see much of a way around it.
That is the most likely course, trish, just not the "best" one.
ReplyDeleteThe quality of the Iraqi Army woud most likely improve, under a deadline.
Or not.
Another failed nationbuilding exercise.
That will be the spin, not that the military needs an evaluation and restructuriing.
Beyond Mr Bush's current transformative restructuring program.
Maybe this will help a little on getting control on the borders. Not another muzzie is fine with me. Henry K. used to say, 'a moderate muslim is one that is out of ammo'.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I thought we were supposed to have done these folks a favor a little while back. No good deed goes unpunished.
Here is one vote for expanding the war, into Iran.
ReplyDeleteThen it'd be an overt regional or even global conflict. The author, Louis Rene Beres, a professor of international law at Purdue University writes:
"The case for strikes against Iran"
Diplomacy alone won't stop Iran's nuclear ambitions.
Mr Louis Rene Beres is a nuclear diplomatic specialist.
No warrior, but he makes reference to the 2,500 aim points that stopping the Iranian nuclear program would require striking.
He believes it worth the risk.
I think Mr Bush has already spent the political capital required for such bold action.
We will face the results of the lack of such a strike.
Where is the USS Ike, anyway?
"Another failed nationbuilding exercise.
ReplyDeleteThat will be the spin, not that the military needs an evaluation and restructuriing."
That'll only come with time and a fresh strategy that grants a breather, and at this point it's inevitable (doesn't matter who's elected) that the military role is going to be diminished. Other Government Agencies will be the name of the game.
I never thought I would be a person that might consider the idea of banning a book, but sometimes I wonder. What's the good of it, if after 1400 years the very same crap, with the very same illogic and the very same rationals keeps coming back and back and back. They get another generation going on it, and it's the same old merry-go-round, never for the last time. Problem is if you start banning books where does it end, and who decides. On the other hand the koran is so explicit on what it wants to do, and what it wants to do is the exact opposite of what any of us seem to want, at least if we are in our right minds. If we can't ban the book, I say at least ban the immigrant.
ReplyDeleteTrish is Right. Bush can't say anything right now. He's got one last chance, here (long-shot, though it be,) to try to push the Iraqis into some desired political action, ie. Oil Deal, Provincial Elections, re-Ba'athification, etc.
ReplyDeleteBut, Oct 31 is his absolutely drop-dead day. Nov 1 the Congressional Republicans take Iraq out back and shoot it.
Election Time.
Update-
ReplyDeleteThe Pizza Connection; Easy Access to Fort Dix
May 08, 2007 1:01 PM
Brian Ross and Richard Esposito Report:
The six men charged with planning an attack to kill several hundred U.S. soldiers at Fort Dix, N.J., thought they would have easy access to the base by pretending to deliver pizzas.
In a criminal complaint filed this morning, an FBI agent writes that "SERDAR TATAR's father owned a restaurant near Fort Dix and made deliveries onto the base."
The father, owner of Super Mario's Restaurant, told ABCNews.com today that his staff often made pizza deliveries on to the base and to the nearby McGuire Air Force Base.
The complaint says Tatar was able to acquire a map of Fort Dix, labeled "Cantonment Area Fort Dix, N.J." and gave it to the five other men arrested by the FBI.
Officials say the map was used by pizza delivery men to find their way around the base.
According to the complaint, Tatar "described a place at Fort Dix they could target that would cause a power outage and allow for an easier attack on the military personnel there."
Tatar's father told ABCNews.com he talked to his son only yesterday, and there was no indication of anything unusual, no indication that his 24-year-old son harbored a deep hatred of the United States.
"There’s something wrong here," the father said. "I came here from Turkey in 1992, and this is my country. I love this country."
He said his son had not worked at the restaurant for at least a year, and he believed his son was working at a 7-11 convenience store in Philadelphia.
The criminal complaint tells a much different story, describing Tatar as suspicious of the FBI's undercover operative who infiltrated the group.
Last November, Tatar allegedly contacted a sergeant in the Philadelphia police department to check the name of the undercover informant.
The complaint quotes Tatar as telling the undercover operative, "Whether you are or not (FBI), I'm gonna do it. Know why? It doesn't matter to me, whether I get locked up, arrested or get taken away, it doesn't matter. Or I die, doesn't matter, I'm doing it in the name of Allah."
The restaurant's chef, Joseph Hofflinger, 35, quit today after finding out the news that the owner of Super Mario's Pizza was the father of one of the suspected terrorists.
When asked by reporters as to why he quit, Hofflinger said, "Because I won't work for somebody that has any ties or admission to terrorists." He continued, "My son is in the 82nd Airborne. I won't work for a place that supports terrorism so I'm out."
Super Mario's Pizza Restaurant
ReplyDelete(609) 758-6500
19 Wrightstown Cookstown Rd
Cookstown, NJ 08511
Map it | Get directions
To leave the initative and the percieved face of the US in the hands of our foes is ineptitude, personified. Make no mistake, Mr Maliki and his government our amongst our political foes.
ReplyDeleteTo wait upon unlikely events, when he has the power to create new ones. It would require international political leadership, though.
Farmed fish given meal tainted with products from China.
ReplyDeleteSomeone will have to explain to me why we allow any Chinese food ingredient into this country. They banned our beef for four years. They have duties ten times the size of those imposed on our food goods from them ( wheat gluten).
ReplyDeleteIf you have ever been to China, you know it is an environmental horror show.
We should demand they not be allowed to ship any food or medical supplements or ingredients into this country until they can demonstrate at their cost that the purity and standards are equial to the US, and parity on duty impositions.
Braggarts?
ReplyDeleteHaven't read comments yet, but it seemed to me the FBI pr guy disclosed a lot more details than ideal.
Not only beef. Some years back they were making big noises about some feed grains from here. Not that there is althing wrong with that but what is good for the goose is good for the gander. I don't like the sound of that, I eat a lot of store bought fish, though if they haven't got me at my age, they are unlikely to do so now. I've evolved.
ReplyDeleteSilly Man!
ReplyDeleteThe Chinese are willing to do jobs American Farmers are no longer willing to do:
Grow Food.
And, it turns Chi-Coms into steadfast allies.
You are now required to take 30 units of Remedial Globalism Courses at AEI.
As has been noted, this validates the great value of Wesley's "NATO" Air War.
ReplyDeletePentagon Tells 35,000: Prepare to Deploy
ReplyDeleteWASHINGTON - The Pentagon has notified more than 35,000 Army soldiers to be prepared to deploy to Iraq beginning this fall, a move that would allow commanders to maintain the ongoing buildup of troops through the end of the year if needed.
The Ike has passed through the Suez Canal to the Med on its way home, according to Debka.
ReplyDeleteAha! It's Wilbur-Ellis is one of the guilty parties. This pleases me, as a farmer who has been chinched by them. Couldn't happen to a finer bunch of crooks.
ReplyDeleteWell, we opened this post about the former Yugos and asked the question will there be more. Here we have it.
ReplyDelete1. They are all Islamic.
2. Three of them are illegal.
3. Four are Albanians.
4. One is from Jordan.
5. One is from Turkey.
6. They all had a support group here in the US that included an Imam and some mosque.
7. They were turned in by a clerk in a video store. Was the clerk part of the Islamic community?
8. Is the mosque still open for business?
9. Has the imam been brought in for questioning?
10. How many more groups like this are at work in the US?
11. How do illegal aliens, muslims, have access to a major US military base and you cannot take sun lotion on an airplane?
12. How many of these illegal muslims will be permitted to stay under a program giving legal status to current illegals?
13. Do any of our masters care about the security and rights of legal American citizens?
All good questions; but i'd like THIS ONE answered first:
ReplyDelete11. How do illegal aliens, muslims, have access to a major US military base and you cannot take sun lotion on an airplane?
Rat, you wrote:
ReplyDelete"Command from a position of conviction and faith in the troops to meet the training and handover target dates. As well as securing the streets of Baghdad. A police function. Let's set that targeted turnover date, today. Not wait until a report of limited success and counter balancing shortfalls is brought forward.
"The power of the Presidency is in the ability to shape events, not being buffetted by them. Getting ahead of the curve, not perpetually behind it."
Rat, what you are talking about is fabricating out of whole cloth. Bush is supposed to blow smoke up skirts and THEN come autumn be presented with the ugly facts, which will THEN have to be responded to with a new set of objectives?
Maybe I did not convey clearly enough: Petraeus will have nothing. good. to report.
My own estimation is that the "political inteptitude" was in going with the surge to begin with. (Hence the serious misgivings of so many Repubicans back when it was first proposed.) And neither the mission nor the message can be changed until the surge has had a decent interval to play out.
There's been a dramatic drop-off in "Sectarian" Violence; and, I don't know how much the surge had to do with it, but there is definitely progress in Anbar.
ReplyDeleteGames The Dems Play
ReplyDelete11. How do illegal aliens, muslims, have access to a major US military base and you cannot take sun lotion on an airplane?
ReplyDeleteThe short answer is that we establish onerous security regimes one disaster at a time.
"There's been a dramatic drop-off in 'Sectarian' Violence; and, I don't know how much the surge had to do with it, but there is definitely progress in Anbar."
ReplyDeleteThe developments in Anbar are not surge-related. And those same tribal leaders fully intend to have their smackdown with the Shiites.
Rufus, the political situation has not changed, will not change. For the better, anyhow. A healthy portion of that drop-off (sectarian violence casualties are bodies dumped, not blown up) is due to some bicycle-chain-wielding thugs laying low. This is not in itself a long-lasting or sustainable development. Momentary improvements (which we've experienced throughout) are not long-term trends.
Does the WH realize this? Last month, the admin conceded through various anonymous sources that the Surge would have to be extended into 2009 for any substantial gains to be realized - and that was putting it generously.
We are on a Merry-Go-Round. The Surge is the last Go-Round. Or as one blogger put it, we are into our last Friedman* in Iraq.
*The Friedman, or Friedman Unit (F.U.), is a tongue-in-cheek neologism coined by blogger Atrios (Duncan Black) on May 21, 2006.[1] A Friedman is a unit of time equal to six months.[2] [3] [4] [5] [6]
The term is in reference to the discovery by Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) of journalist Thomas Friedman's repeated use[7] of "the next six months" as the time period in which, according to Friedman, "we're going to find out...whether a decent outcome is possible" in the Iraq War. As documented by FAIR, Friedman had been making these six-month predictions since November 2003.
- wikipedia
The shop owner that turned them in, is he a muzzie? If so, as someone on another thread said, it might be one of those rare sightings of that endangered species, the 'moderate muslim'.
ReplyDeleteNo cooks on base that can make pizza?
ReplyDeleteWhether the Sunni Arab powers will take action, or be successful in their efforts, depends on how seriously these states are considering the thought of U.S. troops withdrawing. U.S. President George W. Bush is in a very tricky position right now.
ReplyDeleteBy pursuing a surge strategy in Iraq, he is signaling to the Iranians that Washington has no intent to draw down its military presence in the region -- and that therefore it would be in the Persian ayatollahs' best interest to deal now, rather than wait out the administration. On the other hand, Bush also has to convince the Arab states that they had better start moving now to unite the Iraqi Sunni front, otherwise they will be dealing with the Iranians on their own in a couple of years.
Cheney has his work cut out for him during this trip -- getting the Sunni Arab powers to comply with Bush's strategy for Iraq is a bulls-eye that only the sharpest diplomatic marksman could hope to hit. We wonder whether, this time around, Cheney has improved his aim.
A Sandstorm
Trish,
ReplyDeleteMaybe you could explain this to me:
The breakup of Iraq will signal the breakup of Syria, of Lebanon, of Iran, of Turkey, of Saudia, of Jordan, of Pakistan, of Sudan, of Somalia, etc.
Why not allow for this chain of events?
Hot times coming for the Ethanol players.
ReplyDeleteThe surge was, I think, the worst in a long line of bad decisions. Doubling down on a losing hand, with an army and marine corps that obviously could not endure it to the extent that would be necessary. It was either light or long, going big was never an option.
ReplyDeleteAfter marking up the defense authorization bill for the 2008 fiscal year last week, Rep. Ellen Tauscher (D., Calif.) boasted of her “support for addressing real, near-term missile threats.” If only it were true. Tauscher, who chairs the House Armed Services Strategic Forces Subcommittee, had in fact just stripped $764 million from several key programs. These aren’t minor trimmings, but devastating eviscerations to missile-defense projects that are essential if the United States is to protect itself not only from the likes of Iran and North Korea, but also from the future beneficiaries of their proliferation.
ReplyDeleteAnd then, this sorry bitch does this.
Why, Oh Why?
The potential to go big, if necessary, and to have a viable missile defense, would indicate seriousness.
ReplyDeleteThis is to be avoided, as it would inflame moveon, and discourage our enemies and potential foes.
Romney has a "4%" solution, ie spend 4 percent of budget for defense.
ReplyDeleteSays that would result in a Reagan magnitude buildup.
...or buildback, in truth.
Mat,
ReplyDeleteTo have a Pizza Parlor on base would attract Pali Bombers frustrated by the Zionist Fence.
There are too many questions in these comments, and not enough answers!
ReplyDeleteSo the Friedman Unit is immortal:
ReplyDeleteWhat's not to like about that?
"As for the one Mormon running for office, those who really believe in God will defeat him anyways, so don‘t worry about that; that‘s a temporary situation," Sharpton said Monday during a debate with Hitchens at the New York Public Library‘s Beaux-Arts headquarters.
ReplyDeleteThe Romney campaign, which has been wary of campaign trail criticism of Romney‘s faith, jumped on the Sharpton comment. If elected, Romney would be the first Mormon to serve as president.
Romney himself said Monday during an appearance on Fox News program "Hannity and Colmes": "I think there are differences between different faiths in this country. And there will be battles between different religions. ... That‘s a great thing about this country. We don‘t decide who‘s going to be in office based on what church they go to."
Romney Faith
7b. Is the clerk in a video store still breathing?
ReplyDeleteSam,
ReplyDeleteHow many
"Nappy Headed Ho Units"
is Sharpton's comment worth?
Shorthand:
"IU"
(Imus Units)
Doug,
ReplyDeleteIU of 0. As any comments from Sharpton are worth jack shit.
Doug said...
ReplyDelete...it seemed to me the FBI pr guy disclosed a lot more details than ideal.
Braggarts?
Sam,
ReplyDeleteThe Shit Must go on, I Suppose.
Down for the Struggle, down for the duration.
Lying, Racist, Hate-filled, despicable, motherfucking, Lying Al Sharpton on You Tube
ReplyDeleteWell, there you go, rufus.
ReplyDeleteThat's just pne of many examples of why elections matter.
Just a foretaste of the '09. If we stay on course.
General P will report back that the Iraqi Government has not reconciled, by September.
Then what?
We continue to stay in force or start to go, based on the political failure of the the Iraqi and the inability for US to surge the military much longer, politicly.
That will be a tsunami of disaster for the GOP and the US, each for differing reasons.
Did I mention he is a LYING Motherfucker?
ReplyDeleteIn Oct. it don't matter what I want, or what you want, or what W wants. In Oct it's Over. The Senators have done laid down the law. Bush is going back to Crawford, and they're going back out on the election trail; And, they ain't carryin Eye Rak with'um.
ReplyDeleteObamasama, 10,000 People DIED!
ReplyDeleteer, make that 12 people died. sorry
If it's over in October, rufus, and everyone knows and sees it, why not admit it, to the benefit of the US.
ReplyDeleteIt would not be making anything up, trish, to announce that on 1 Jan 08, the Security Mission authority was being transferred to the Iraqi, today. That we were seeking a long term agreement to aid the Iraqi government, for training, etc.
In fact it would strengthen the Iraqi government and stifle the harmful protest actions by the Dem Congress as well as not ending the war on Ms Pelosi's terms. Which is what we'll get, in November.
Doug,
ReplyDeleteDon't you try and lay the blame on the Zionists for Bush's Daylight Savings Crime! It's not the Zionists that have been robbing the Palis of their hard earned retirement years. What do think, that we are all so stupid to have sprang from dumb apes!?
WaPo Photoschlocks Obama!
ReplyDeleteI guess I could teach that one flat; or I could teach it round. Whichever way, sucks; but, there it is.
ReplyDelete"It would not be making anything up, trish, to announce that on 1 Jan 08, the Security Mission authority was being transferred to the Iraqi, today. That we were seeking a long term agreement to aid the Iraqi government, for training, etc."
ReplyDeleteOK. We won't be seeking a long-term agreement. The Security Mission will have to be transferred anyway, because we'll be moving out in preparation to leave. It's impossible at this point, however, to persuade anyone (especially since testimony is forthcoming) that the transfer has anything to do with Iraqis standing up, as it were. All we will be able to offer is an advisory role under regular review, quite different from the current set-up.
Stifling the harmful protest actions of the Dem Congress will be done by (the WH) taking the bitter pill. I do not find this as lousy a prospect as you do and do not foresee, with plenty of time to adjust, Republican candidates being any the worse for wear.
Maybe you could explain this to me:
ReplyDeleteThe breakup of Iraq will signal the breakup of Syria, of Lebanon, of Iran, of Turkey, of Saudia, of Jordan, of Pakistan, of Sudan, of Somalia, etc.
Why not allow for this chain of events?
- mat
Would it inevitably come out in our favor?
"If it's over in October, rufus, and everyone knows and sees it, why not admit it, to the benefit of the US."
ReplyDeleteBecause Petraeus has to be the messenger. Not Bush.
Trish,
ReplyDeleteIt will allow the many subjugated minorities a chance to revive their ancient national/ethnic identity. Would it inevitably come out in our favor? It would allow them a chance to be free of the Arab/Islamic cultural garb they now wear.
" Tue May 08, 10:40:00 PM EDT
ReplyDeleteDoug said...
Romney has a "4%" solution, ie spend 4 percent of budget for defense.
Says that would result in a Reagan magnitude buildup.
...or buildback, in truth."
See here.
The Reagan buildup was around 6%.
Right now, with war spending included, we're at about 5.5%, 3.5% without.
Throughout the Cold War we never went below 4.6%. During Korea it was 13-14% and Vietnam 7-9%. World War II, forget about it.
In other words, even during Carter, we were over 4%.
For some perspective.
And then there's the fact that even with 4% GDP, we still would have failed in Iraq. Methods and goals matter as much as means.
ReplyDeleteAnd one other thing, since we see war costs being thrown around.
ReplyDeleteAdjusted for GDP, Iraq has cost about 1/5th of Korea.
"It will allow the many subjugated minorities a chance to revive their ancient national/ethnic identity."
ReplyDeleteBack when, there was a pejorative invented for this: Balkanization.
And this would benefit us how? Are the subsequently consolidated Sunnis just going to sit on their hands? The Shiites?
Are you suggesting we adopt a "do not revive" policy?
Trish,
ReplyDeleteThese things can be very easily managed. As far as I know, non of them produce spare parts for tanks and jet fighters, or for that matter, anything of technical value.
"These things can be very easily managed."
ReplyDeleteWiiiith the occasional cooperation, however double-handed, of apostate governments. I'm guessing. You'd will those governments to fall and have them replaced by what?
"As far as I know, non of them produce spare parts for tanks and jet fighters, or for that matter, anything of technical value."
But we're not eyeing that kind of threat from the Islamists, mat.
Trish,
ReplyDeletePerhaps in their newly reorganized state, they'll start manufacturing spare parts for all the bodies dismembered by
Seekers of the Raisins? tm
---
"Magic Arabs hurdle hundreds of years of sloth and decadence to transform overnight into the creators of a New Age of Bionic Miracles"
Habu, at the BC:
ReplyDelete"Those of us who are fully aware realize that the precipice is immediately before us. Islam will have the bomb within a year or two and therein will trigger the ultimatum, Islam or annihilation. Islam may indeed get its wish for the total destruction of Israel but their own 'civilizations' will never recover the retaliation."
Islam's already got the bomb.
I guess we could replace 'Islam' with 'Iran' in the above, but then have to wonder who supplied habu the "within a year or two" projection. Maybe it derives from two things: first, the fact that the current administration will be ending within "a year or two" and, second, habu's indefatigable hope that this administration will bomb *something* in Iran before its time is up.
Ya gotta admire the persistence.
You'd will those governments to fall and have them replaced by what?
ReplyDeleteZionist overlords?
But we're not eyeing that kind of threat from the Islamists, mat.
So then, when the Zionist overlords of the new northern provinces of Israel demonstrate how feeble Assad's 1982 demonstration of power against the Islamists really was, there will be little to worry about.
Trish,
ReplyDeleteThe objective is to advance interests at the lowest possible cost. That is easiest done when there's a real authentic structure of accountability with which to interact. Allowing the Ottoman Empire and the mini Empires contained within to naturally fragment into their representative ethnic/national groups and states, will enhance this accountability. That means that there will now be little confusion as to which address we can dispatch diplomats, dumb bombs, or tanks, to solve any outstanding issues.
Mat,
ReplyDeleteI read your 1:10 over at the BC.
"Natural" fragmentation means, I guess, no help from us is required in the fragmentation process. We can adopt a truly hands-off policy which, luckily for us, would generate authentic structures of accountability. That is, all actors would be state actors, right?
Trish,
ReplyDeleteThere's never a hands off policy. Even doing nothing, is doing something. My approach would involve lending support of arms and diplomatic cover to those ethnic/national groups aligned against Islamism. At the same time, I would withdraw support of arms and diplomatic cover to those elements and ethnic groups aligned with Islamists.
As it is, the statecraft that the US State Department has been practicing, has us ending up with Pakistan, KSA, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, etc., as duplicitous allies instead of openly declared enemies.