Kerry defends remarks, lashes out at White House
dpa German Press Agency
Published: Tuesday October 31, 2006
Washington- US Senator John Kerry, who ran against US President George W Bush in the 2004 election, lashed out at the White House on Tuesday for accusing him of ridiculing US troops in Iraq. The White House had earlier demanded Kerry apologize to US soldiers for implying that they ended up in Iraq because they were uneducated. Kerry said his remarks were a "botched joke" about the president's lack of preparation for the war in Iraq.
"My statement yesterday - and the White House knows this full well - was a botched joke about the president and the president's people, not about the troops," Kerry told reporters. More if you can stand the lying asshole.
Instapundit has a bunch of links on the latest "truth-about-how-I-really-feel" slip from Senator Ho Chi Ortega Kerry.ReplyDelete
At least I lived long enough to vote against that sorry motherfucker.ReplyDelete
On a more positive note:ReplyDelete
Biopact has post after post on progress in the south. Interestingly, enough, it starts off with Venezuela, which wants to build 17 Ethanol Plants.
Well let's see, as the Military drops the entry level requirements to join the Army, to meet their recruitment numbers, it becomes obvious that the more highly educated do not join the Military.ReplyDelete
In large numbers.
So Mr Kerry's observation that those that do not extend themselves through education have limited options is not out of place.
That one of those options has historicly been enlisting in the military is not ground breaking nor insulting, but accurate.
That in the heat of an election campaign Mr Kery's remarks hit a nerve is to be expected. But his remarks were accurate.
Now that does not mean that those that join the military do not have other motivations as well, but many that enlist or reenlist do so because of the lack of other opportunities in the nongovernmental economy.
Went through the options with Jr when he graduated from high school.
The Trades have become crippled career paths by illegal aliens holding down wages.
Entry level opportunities for those without higher education are limited.
Mr Kerry's observations were accurate, if not Politically Correct.
Piss, Rat, THAT is out of line.ReplyDelete
But not Politically Correct in today's atmosphere.
The numbers speak for themselves.
No, you're insulting one hundred and fifty thousand young fighting men and women, and I won't have it.ReplyDelete
It's Wrong, and you can go fuck yourself for saying it.
Rat, you can piss, and moan, and whine all you want to; it's your right.ReplyDelete
But, when you insult those young Marines, hoss, you're getting on the fighting side of me.
I expect an apology.
Now, now, rufus, there is no need to insult the late Mrs. Kerry. She cannot be held accountable for the product of a botched abortion.
DR may be both technically and factually correct. If Kerry said the Lord's Prayer, I'd still think him a lying son-of-a-bitch, with apologies to the late Mrs. Kerry.
Looking more closely at the officer supply problem reveals a further concern: while the Army is lowering the bar on promotion, the attrition rate among the best-educated officers has grown especially bad. The loss rate for West Point graduates who have fulfilled their five-year obligation has reached its highest point in 16 years. In 2005, fully one-third left -- whereas in 2003, less than 22 percent had.ReplyDelete
I do not apologize for the facts.
It is not an insult to those that are deployed to state the obvious.
When you tell me those brave, magnificent young men and women are there only because they're too stupid or sorry to do anything else, all I can say is where will you be saturday morning; cause we can settle this real damned quick.ReplyDelete
The better question, rufus, is why are they, the West Point Officers and enlisted men baling out of the Army?ReplyDelete
BTW, Condi Rice will be on Kudlow in a few minutes to talk about China, and the impending 3 way talks. It might be enlightening.ReplyDelete
Reenlistment is running at 70%.ReplyDelete
Besides, I didn't reenlist to go back to Vietnam. I figured I'd done my part. That didn't mean I was too stupid, or worthless to do anything else, or that I didn't believe in my Country. It was time to move on, go back to College, get married, and get on with my life.ReplyDelete
The Army has doubled the percentage of enlistees that will be accepted from among the lowest-scoring tier of recruits (so-called Category IV recruits).ReplyDelete
I never said they were there only because they are "to stupid or sorry" for anything else.
That is your interpretation, not mine.
My son is now in Perry, Georgia with his JROTC corps, hearing the President speak. I'm now listening to John Boehner on Fox, piling on the BS; for instance, saying with a straight face that there is no day light between the US policy and that of President Maliki and that Mr. Maliki has no control over the US military in Iraq. There is something sadly missing in this man's character. The longer he speaks, the more obvious the cause of Republican woe.ReplyDelete
Whether that is from 1% to 2%, or 2% to 4%, or 5% to 10% doesn't matter. Every Patriotic young man and woman we have over there could have found a job that payed more, and was One Hell of a Lot Easier.ReplyDelete
They're over there protecting our sorry asses, and Goddammit, you owe them one hell of a lot more respect than you're showing right now.
The racial mix, reading levels, and aptitude scores of today's Army are not much different from those of 18-to-24-year-olds in American society as a whole.ReplyDelete
But the point of an army is to fight wars, not to promote social equality. So, the more critical reason to lament the Army's declining standards is their likely impact on military skills. This is a high-tech army, where even tank crews and artillery spotters deal with digital displays and computerized commands. Low-tech missions, too—foot soldiers on patrol in the sorts of "stability operations" they're conducting in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Bosnia—require a degree of alertness, sensitivity, initiative, even rudimentary foreign-language skills, that goes beyond a rote ability to follow orders and shoot straight.
Under the new rules, recruits without a diploma will be required to take and pass a GED exam, and the Army will pay for a preparation course, so at least the total dregs will be kept out. But something crucial will still be lost. Young men and women who graduate from high school, or who set out to earn a GED, demonstrate a degree of focus and ambition. It doesn't take much to sit through a GED prep course and then pass the exam; it does take a certain vitality to bother going through the process on your own. This is what the Army risks whittling away.
Your righteous indignation is truely impressive. You will, however, have to excuse my rudeness when I ask you to answer the questions posed by the following:
“Obviously, you have forgotten that on 9/11 and in the days immediately following, Muslims elites were informing their publics that the attack was fomented by the Mossad and/or CIA to justify an attack on the Arab nation for the purpose of monopolizing petroleum product and distribution. Oh, and those conniving Jews working at the WTC were given a heads up and did not appear for work on 9/11. Ash, do you share these beliefs?”
This will be the third asking; so, what’s your hold-up?
The Republican rhetoric is well beyond reality.ReplyDelete
Justice, not Victory.
It's become a Police Action, which is not what I voted for. Police, that's what Mr Kerry wanted and campaigned for, in '04.
I take issue with you DR on this. It is too in your face. We all know the military has become blue collar but so has the police force, firemen, plumbers and electricians. The fact is the military is a great experience for most young men. It makes them men and later in life, men that never went, either lie about it or wish they had gone. It opens opportunities and gives young guys a chance to prove themselves. I think it is a high distinction that is hard to duplicate.ReplyDelete
I agree with rufus when I hear some long faced two faced, scab ass, punk ass, back stabbing, buddy fucking, phony cocksucker like Kerry put down a young man who is taking the hard way rather than the easy way, it makes be want to knock him out, grab him by the hair, Mike Tyson his ear, and show the prick what a street fighting blue collar ass shellacking feels like.
Shit, that's the silliest thing of yours I've ever read, Rat. The only way I graduated High School is I got appendicitis, and then Peritinitis in the spring of the year; I almost died. My teachers felt sorry for me, and graduated me, in spite of the fact that I was, without a doubt, one of the worst students my high school had ever seen.ReplyDelete
After 3 years in the Marine Corps I scored in the 98 percentile of entering students at the University of Mo.
None of that means a damned thing. What matters is all of those young men and women could be doing something else, but they're over there fighting, and dying, for us and our families.
I, honestly, don't know how we could honor them enough.
Desperado, why don't you come to your senses?ReplyDelete
You been out ridin' fences for so long now
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This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.ReplyDelete
Rat & Allen for that matter:ReplyDelete
I'd contest Rat's facts and implications.
So were on a similar page, here is a DoD site on the methodology:
From Strategy page - it may be a question of training the infamous catevory IVs
"The army aptitude tests take into account intelligence, as well as psychological suitability for military life and situations. Thus those in Category IV are limited to the number of jobs they are qualified for, are hard to train, and more likely to have problems adjusting to military life. In the late 1970s, about 30 percent of the volunteers were Category IV and V (the lowest level). The army had a lot of trouble with those recruits, and, starting in the early 1980s, eliminated any Category Vs, and sharply reduced the number of Category IVs (usually by insisting they be high school graduates.)
However, over the last two decades, the army has also done a lot of research into training methods, and believes it can sharply reduce the training and discipline problems of Category IVs. This is pretty important, because if you get thousands of Category IV recruits out of basic, you just transfer poorly adapted troops to units throughout the army. You are just going to see lots of NCOs and officers get out themselves, rather than put up with these additional headaches. It will be several years before it is known if this experiment works."
So the training aspect is a light at the end of rats dark tunnel. I know the military is a massive organization, but I've no idea the distributions of where different categories end up.
Anyone speak from experience on this?
Maybe this is getting too airey but hear me out:
-The human mind is a plastic thing. IQ can correlate ok with success in life - childhood learning rates associate much better. Its not the "gift" its what you do with it. Its all like those seeds in that parable...
-People do NOT need to be geniuses to use computers. Thats the unforgotten aspect in the whole IT revolution is GUIs that let people do all sorts of interesting things. GUI is a specification in any military project. I'm not sure what they state is at - ive heard the F22 is sorta exemplary in this manner. Again, someone with experience in GUI mil interfaces jump in here. YOu dont need to be a genius to use computers - to create innovative code maybe but no, youre wrong there rat.
-Despite the desire to value the service of those in the military, this Rand study argues that there is some amount of harm done by integrating category ivs in certain ways. Maybe there is something better to do with them.
More on that in another post when i read it.
"First, it is important to note thatReplyDelete
the military carries out many different activities, ranging from combat
to more technical operations, each of which may require a different
experience mix or a different amount of training. For example, technical
positions, such as communications or radar operations, may benefit from
having a large number of highly proficient personnel, whereas
administrative occupations may exhibit lower returns to additional
training and experience. A second challenge is the difficulty of
defining the proper unit of output for measuring productivity."
"The majority of studies concerning the relationship between
productivity and experience, training, or aptitude find that each of
these three factors contributes significantly to personnel productivity."
Aptitude - just one measure. To get all hung up on that is to forget that EVERY person in EVERY organization is a mixed bag of all of these. You have to manage that mixed bag and make the most out of it. More importantly, you have to also build on that. RAND points this out as well:
"Additional training has also been found to consistently affect
productivity of personnel. Training appears to be significant as a
source of skill acquisition, knowledge building, and capability
development. Many studies suggest that it is the accumulation of
training over a lifetime that has the largest effect on individual
performance, rather than simply training in the previous six months."
RAND syncs up with rat with a case like this:
"Their study looks at the relationship between AFQT and the
performance of three-person teams on communications tasks, including
making a system operational and troubleshooting the system to identify
faults. They find a significant relationship between the group’s average
AFQT score and its performance on both activities. On the first task,
they find that if the average group AFQT is lowered from the midpoint of
- xi -
category IIIA to the midpoint of category IIIB, the probability that the
group will successfully operate the system falls from 63 percent to 47
That's nothing to sneeze at. But here's some speculation:
-If it simply costs more to train category iv's perhaps this means a pay raise is in the offing to keep the upper categories there, as there may be more cost performance there
-But what if there is more cost performance in more training for the category ivs? how do we square that with popular notions of intelligence? Why, id have to wonder if our popular notions of intelligence would have to conform to the last 20 years of cognitive/neuroscience research!
Long and short of it is:ReplyDelete
Kerry is a sorry sack of shit
For an interesting break down on the organizational compartmentalization of labor within the military, you can look at the various schemes for classifying specialization based on hte AFQT scores:ReplyDelete
Army Line Scores:
* GT - General Technical: VE+AR
* CL - Clerical: VE+AR+MK
* CO - Combat: AR+CS+AS+MC
* EL - Electronics: GS+AR+MK+EI
* FA - Field Artillery: AR+CS+MK+MC
* GM - General Maintenance: GS+AS+MK+EI
* MM - Mechanical Maintenance: NO+AS+MC+EI
* OF - Operators and Food: VE+NO+AS+MC
* SC - Surveillance and Communications: VE+AR+AS+MC
* ST - Skilled Technical: GS+VE+MK+MC
Air Force Line Scores:
* M - Mechanical Comprehension (MC), General Science (GS) and 2 times Auto & Shop Information (AS)
* A - Administrative Numerical Operations * (NO), Coding SPeed * (CS), and Verbal Expression (WK plus PC)
* G - General Verbal Expression (WK plus PC) and Arithmetic Reasoning (AR)
* E - Electrical Arithmetic Reasoning (AR), Mathematics Knowledge (MK), Electronics Information (EI), and General Science (GS)
Marine Line Scores:
* MM - Mechanical Maintenance, Construction, Utility and Chemical Maintenance (hazmat) - GS+AS+MK+MC
* GT - General Technical, Special and Officer Programs - VE+AR
* EL -Electronics Repair, Missile Repair, Electronics and Communications -GS+AR+MK+EI
* CL- Clerical, Administrative, Supply & Finance - NO + CS + VE
Navy Line Scores:
* ENG - Engineman - AS+MK
* ADM - Administrative - MK+VE
* GT - General Technical - AR+VE
* MEC - Mechanical Maintenance - AR+AS+MC
* HM - Health - GS+MK+VE
* MEC2 - Mechanical Maintenance 2 - AO+AR+MC
* EL - Electronics - AR+EI+GS+MK
* NUC - Nuclear Field - AR+MC+MK+VE
* BEE - Engineering and Electronics - AR+GS+2*MK
* OPS - Operations Specialist - AR+CS+2*MK
Army doesnt, shouldnt and probably CANT function like a college admissions board.ReplyDelete
It needs bodies, to throw training at those bodies and use what sticks. It isnt betting on having gifted wonder-children, all the marketing campaigns aside.
Any good manager in the private sector isnt betting on wonder children either. You get someone motivated somewhat and you give them something theyre capable of doing. You want to make reasonable assumptions about those capabilities - thats what those tests and and degrees are for in a technical sorta way...
Long and short of it is:
Kerry is a sorry sack of shit
welcome aboard ppab!!!
"... Although only about 7 percent of recruits for 2003–2005 entered the military with some college experience, ..."ReplyDelete
Mr Kerry was at Pasadena City College when he made his statement. So it seems reasonable that 93% of the audience, at least, had no desire to join the military, since so few that have been college students choose military service.
The remark fit the audience.
Mr JFKerry is a sack of shit, but he wasn't wrong, this time.
Wait a cotton pickin minute, Rat.ReplyDelete
The military will pay for college, even graduate degrees if you're serious about it.
Makes sense itd have a disproportionate amount of non-college folks. Thats where the incentives lie.
The emphasis should be on whether the percentage you cite is good, bad or w/e?
And if its bad, what do we then do?
I'm unconvinced that its bad. However, I am a civilian...
If its cultural values that determine who serves and who doesn't, as you seem to suggest, I think that throws out the idea that that percentage is some sort of creatively derived indicator on the success in Iraq.
But which one is a worse siphon for recruits:
-Dissuading by Iraq
-Persuading by other opportunities
-Some anti-military bias
See the Kerry Kerfuffle on YouTubeReplyDelete
The numbers rufus linked to in the next thread puts initial college experience of enlistees at 7% raising to 11% for the total force, indicating that some in the military are extending their education while on active duty.ReplyDelete
The average for the Nation is about 33%. Quite a bit above the Military's 11%. The folks in the military test out even with their civilian peer group at the time of enlistment.
Only 8% of the total US population has miltary experience.
Rat, those numbers don't at all capture those who serve, leave and continue educatione elsewhere - at least they don't from what youre telling me.ReplyDelete
I'm going to the next thread as per your advice.
Where Lurch Kerry practices his humor.ReplyDelete
Addressing the Problem
"...about whether or not what he said is being mischaracterized,"ReplyDelete
Hugh Hewitt: Do you believe he was making a joke?
Mark Halperin ABC News: I do believe he was making a joke.
HH: And now, I have had…and have you talked to any military active duty about that conclusion?
MH: Not active duty, but retired. But I don’t know that…but that was almost a fluke. I don’t know that someone in the military would have more insight into what John Kerry’s brand of humor is like than someone not in the military.
HH: Does it matter at all how they, to your reporting, how the military is reacting to this statement by Kerry, and his explanation?
HH: And given that I’ve done an hour of radio tonight, I probably had fifteen calls from veterans and active duty, including one non-com just got back from a second tour there, a medic, a combat medic, seething with outrage. They’re not buying the apology. They believe it was premeditated. Should their point of view find a prominent place in your news coverage?
MH: The point of view should find a prominent…or a place in all news coverage. But again, as important and valuable as the troops are, as much as all Americans, and we respect them, that’s not always…they’re not necessarily the best arbiters of Senator Kerry’s sense of humor.
The FINAL Arbiters of course, being the MSM.
Mr JFKerry is a sack of shit, but he wasn't wrong, this timeReplyDelete
He is wrong if he meant that the troops are chumps, and he is wrong if he meant the joke was about Bush (because Bush got higher grades at the same college than Kerry).
Rat - actually, your generalization is not backed up by fact - go to gateway pundit, and you will see that today's US military is the most highly educated we have had in 40 years. From gateway:ReplyDelete
"* Myth 1: Military recruits are less educated and have fewer work alternatives than other young Americans.
"In fact, military recruits are far better educated than the general youth population, Carr said. More than 90 percent of recruits have a high school diploma, compared to about 75 percent of the U.S. youth population. "
They are more rural, and less African- American than in the past as well, much to the dismay of Mr. Rangel. And, perhaps some on this board.
Frankly, if they were less educated, Kerry's remarks would be that much more egregious, (if that is possible.)
I'm with 2164 and Rufus on this - particularly on Rufus's first post -
At least I lived long enough to vote against that sorry motherfucker.
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