“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."

Thursday, October 16, 2008

Joe the Plumber

Joe Wurzelbacher - Joe the Plumber, part of the American rich not paying his fair share, sitting in his smoking jacket and watching the debate from his palatial estate.


  1. On FOX News, Frank Luntz asks his focus group,
    "Who won?"
    ... Obama
    ... he's more giving

    Which seems to say it, in a nutshell.

  2. Plumbers of the world, unite! Raise a stink. You're entitled to. Flush that BO BS away. Joe's Plumbing, where a flush beats a full house. Plunge in there and get the truth flowing. Or we'll be in deep do do.

    Joe is a 'damned good speaker' himself.

  3. "I can not believe this is happening. I live on an isolated sheep farm in Australia and I can’t figure out why Americans are ready to commit national suicide, which will, as result, take what remains of Western Civilization with them."

    - wes george

    Jee.Zus.Christ. Bob. This stuff is beyond parody.

    Why, why, why is it that for so many people on the left and right we are ALWAYS on the verge of the end times? WHO is feeding into this apocalyptic nonsense? Or are there simply people who possess, without input, such a sense of life that the world can only be understood in terms of ever-threatening oblivion?

    I wish "isolated sheep farm" explained it all. I know better.

  4. i'm voting McCain as a Democrat...

    i aint rich....

    I pay for my folks house payments...

    I want a smaller government

    when it comes to government spending, i want roll backs...

    it's time to stop excessive spending...

    the market CORRECTION is welcomed in my household...

    for 15 years it's been easy money for some in the world.. markets going up without real performance... house of card businesses that were nothing.......

    now in a 3 week time a return to value...

    now in a short time people have learned that saving and investing could include CD's & Tbills not JUST stocks...

    easy money has vanished...


  5. John Miller posted this from the Onion:

    WASHINGTON—According to a USA Today–Gallup poll released Monday, as many as 85 percent of Americans strongly wish to see Sens. Barack Obama and John McCain race through a gauntlet of comically ludicrous hazards and encumbrances sometime before Nov. 4. "Voters want to know how Obama's poise compares with McCain's experience, specifically when racing to pick the flag out of a giant foam nose," political analyst and Gallup pollster Brian Garfield said. "It has been a grueling nominating season, and now the American people want to see the candidates prove their mettle in a gigantic syrup moat. If they react the wrong way under pressure—say, on some sort of gravy slide or human-size hamster wheel—the results could be hilarious." At press time, neither candidate had comment, as they were both being zipped into sumo suits.

  6. But, wo"o", when Obama promises more "easy money" folks rally to his Standard.

    Afrer 15 years, folk are voting for the return of the status que, with upgrades, thrown in, for free.

    The Federals have nationalized the financial services industry, to the cheers of almmost one and all, to return to that life of "easy money".

    That light at the end of the tunnel, it's the Obama Express.

  7. WHO is feeding into this apocalyptic nonsense?

    Obama, of course.

    Why is it I feel that way, for the first time? I didn't during the cold war. But, you're right, it's beyond parody. And the world comes to an end in many ways.

    The best lack all conviction, the worst are full of passionate intensity....and the center, which just wants more giving, cannot hold.

    Maaybe it's just an aging paranoia thing.

  8. Take away financial services and home construction and look at the US economy over the last twenty years. The two fed off each other and were subsidized by the greatest racket of all time, seignorage. It was the greatest misallocation of resources in history.

    That game is over.

    In five to ten years, this convulsion will be seen as a good thing.

  9. Joe has plumbed the depths, Trish. Found a stinker there.

  10. "Seen as a good thing"

    So that, dear host, will also be the view of an Obama Presidency, as the convulsion is what will place him in the White House.
    If it is seen as a "good thing", in five or ten years, then so will Obama and whatever he really does get done.

    Coming from you ...

  11. Your "traditional" Republicans will lock the money up to the point that you end up in depression.

    Your Dems, on the other hand, will get the money "moving," but if they stay in power "too long" the money will become worthless.

    The genius of our system, if there is one, is that no one party can stay in power long enough to do permanent, unredeemable destruction.

    However, sometimes we're cursed with the Worst of "Both" parties (the thirties) and things "Really" turn to shit. That doesn't seem to be what's happening "This Time." Let's Hope.

  12. Basically, the folks are just "pissed."

  13. You were WRONG on Century 21,
    You are WRONG on BHO, Ruf!

  14. Century 21 = "New Century" DugWorld.

  15. Don't underestimate the ability of much lower gasoline prices in the next two weeks to swing "undecideds" toward McCain. They could be good for as many as three, or four points.

    The Sauds are awfully quiet in the face of a 50% sell-off in oil prices, aren't they? Who do you suppose they're supporting?

  16. I respect Joe's opinion, bob. And I'm glad that "redistribution" doesn't appeal to him.

    OTOH, bob. We're sunk.

    From the FT:

    Beware an October surprise from bin Laden

    By Joseph Nye

    Published: October 15 2008 19:31 | Last updated: October 15 2008 19:31

    Americans are transfixed by the aftermath of the September surprise in financial markets. Could there be a very different surprise coming in October?


    Could it happen? Timing notwithstanding, it is the chief preoccupation of the Mothership.

    Were it to occur, in combination with our present troubles, people would be forgiven for believing that it is, indeed, the approach of the end of the world.

  17. "The Federals have nationalized the financial services industry, to the cheers of almmost one and all"
    But NOT Wells Fargo, and Hundreds (thousands?) of small banks and credit unions around this great country.

  18. "Century 21?"

    What did I say about "Century 21?"

  19. "Who won?"
    ... Obama
    ... he's more giving

    The people along the sand
    All turn and look one way.
    They turn their back on the land.
    They look at the sea all day.

    As long as it takes to pass
    A ship keeps raising its hull;
    The wetter ground like glass
    Reflects a standing gull.

    The land may vary more;
    But wherever the truth may be---
    The water comes ashore,
    And the people look at the sea.

    They cannot look out far.
    They cannot look in deep.
    But when was that ever a bar
    To any watch they keep?

  20. ...would be the end of the Obama, Campaign, Trish!

    Viva, ColOmbia!

  21. Doug, didn't Wells Fargo take their little share of the guvmint largesse a couple of days, ago?

  22. Century 21 = New Century in DugWorld.

    ...I wrote that before, and it disappeared.

  23. They protested that they did not want this gift from MoneyCzar Paulson.

    Citi are the corrupt-bankrupt beggars.

  24. If anyone still cares about the goings on, in Iraq, westhawk has an interesting observation up.

    I've thought and wrote for more than a few years that the "End Game" would revolve around the UN mandate authorizing the occupation of Iraq.

    Seems as it still may.

    An immediate lockdown of US forces, then, if the violence does not erupt, quick withdrawal of them.
    Starting on 1Jan09

  25. ...sorry, we BOTH missed it.

  26. Let's all smoke a joint with Palin and The Plumber, the kind of folks the founders put their faith in.

  27. Well, I certainly could be wrong on the Obamassiah, Doug.

    I thought I made it clear a couple of weeks, ago, I'm just babbling. I don't have a clue about anything, right now; and I know it.

    Just filling up cyberspace.

  28. I give you all the credit for being consistently right about Iraq and Pakistan, 'Rat.

    None, Elsewhere!

  29. Here's a hint, Ruf:
    Paulson AIN'T the Messiah!
    ...but then, you KNEW that.

  30. Could be, Doug. I'd put it in the Maybe, Maybe Not column.

  31. Joe's smoking jacket is nearly identical to mine.

  32. I know that the corporate media at Wstinghouse and GE do not want you to know, doug, but that is no excuse

    The nine major banks that have been nationalized, for our own good, the list includes Wells Fargo.

    Goldman Sachs,
    Morgan Stanley,
    Wells Fargo, J
    PMorgan Chase,
    Bank of America,
    Merrill Lynch,
    State Street and
    Bank of New York Mellon Corp.

    By Peter Whoriskey and Amit R. Paley
    Washington Post Staff Writers
    Wednesday, October 15, 2008

    The Bank of New York Mellon has been selected as the lead contractor in the government's efforts to buy up toxic securities that have spawned fear in the financial markets, a mammoth task considered a key to the Treasury Department's plan to restart the nation's credit markets.

    Under the contract announced yesterday, the bank will run the auctions used by the government to acquire the assets, including many linked to troubled mortgages. Bank of New York Mellon will then hold, track and value those securities.


    The Treasury Department released a copy of the contract, but the monthly fees the bank will receive were blacked out. They will be announced in a matter of weeks, Treasury officials said, once other contracts related to the $700 billion rescue plan have been negotiated.

    "Our market leadership and experience have given us a keen understanding of the challenges facing the U.S. Treasury in these extraordinary times," Robert P. Kelly, the bank's chairman and chief executive said in a statement. "We will immediately deploy our resources and expertise, joining the team of public and private organizations that are working hard to earn the trust of the American taxpayers."

    The contract award comes just a day after the Treasury Department compelled the Bank of New York Mellon to take a $2 billion infusion of federal cash in exchange for preferred stock. Eight other major banks were similarly strong-armed into joining the program.

  33. Bin Laden and his little band of keepers is most likely close to the Chinese border. Not far to move. What an(other) interesting dilemma that would be.

  34. Yep,
    Strong armed Wells into pretending they were as stupid and Corrupt as Citi.
    Viva, Czar Paulson!
    Viva, el Presidente Bush!

  35. Trish:
    Some of us remember Curtis.

    ...the '52's would be the Perfect Retro Delivery Vehicle.

  36. Joe the Plumber brings his Rooter to DC.
    ...and we ain't talkin no namby-pamby internets "Router"

  37. Gonna send Curtis into China?

    Just sayin'.

    That fucker picks the best places to go.

  38. I "Think" I'm reasonably proficient at two things, Doug - smelling the "Con," and reading a chart.

    These semi-useful talents lead me to assume that the "peak-oilers" are basically Right. We're running within a couple of percent of the max oil we'll ever pump, on a daily basis.

    There will be a "noticeable" decrease in "flow rate" sometime within the next few years.

    The Fecal matter will, at that time, Definitely hit the rotating blades. This strong belief leads me to think that we really, reall need to get to work on biofuels, batteries, and other alt. energy sources (including nuclear.)

    Recap: I'm Pretty Sure about Peak Oil on the immediate horizon; and,

    I believe in biofuels, and alternatives.

    Politics, and world finance - Jes babblin.

  39. All rushed through, without the normal rigors of debate, before the tenure of GWBush is complete.

    It will not be Obama and the Democrats that nationalized the US financial industry, but Bush and the GOP.

    A President Obama will just get to manage it.
    Then, if need be, use an emergency to take the oil industry, now that there is popular precedent for emergency takings.

    But health care will come first, it is a greater National Security concern, now.

    Seven percent of the economy at a time, Socialization by the pieces, not all at once.

    an example of Incrementalism at its very best.

  40. The cost/benefit ratios of a nuclear delivery are astronmical. HabuWorld.

  41. Putin will be left in the Dustbin of Capitalist History.

  42. Premier Putin,
    Meet Messiah the Great.

  43. My entire life was structured around that 30yrs too early, Rufus.
    Shoulda stuck with it.
    My Bad.

  44. Pootie is goin' to be bummmmed out, doug.

    With Obama in the Oval Office, Pootie's proxy, Rick Davis, will become a conduit direct to the New Age Energy around the Vortex Ranch.

    Not much return on value for that KGB investment. :)

  45. We knew some guy, Phd in Chemistry, went to live in someplace, AZ. teach Chemistry/New Age Socialism, etc.
    ...while his Jooish wife built a pottery business.

  46. ...had us build a cool one-shot beehive adobe kiln on our farm.
    Chapparal plus fire, plus clay mud = Plates!

  47. Best guess, they are in Bisbee or Sedona/Verde Valley, depending upon how much cash they had, when they came.

    If they had money in their pockets, Sedona. If they were just gettin' by, Cottonwood or Jerome, in the Verde Valley. Those are the towns where the liberals tend to congregate.

    Down south by the border, it's Bisbee, for new age thinking and throwing pottery.

    Both are fabulous, geographicly. Outstanding vistas and terrain.

    We had a chancee to buy a piece of an old homestead, between Sedona and Cottonwood.
    Shoulda, coulda, woulda but other projects came along, I guess. The place had real cash money views of those red rocks. It may have been tough to get to, think that's why we passed.

    Oak Creek Canyon has a road through it, from Flagstaff to Sedona. A fabulous drive, but the next one north, Sycamore Canyon, is untouched by development. Now that is a really energetic place to go.

  48. Bisbee, I believe.
    Is there a Campus Closeby?

  49. Sure, it's the County seat, there'd be a Community College, guarenteed. We're real big on Community Colleges, in AZ.

    Available to almost everyone, a thousand or so a semester, in tuition and fees.

  50. Wife grew up in Palm Springs when the Population was 3,600.

    ...the spring I went there, the Desert was in bloom from a Wet Winter.

    Later saw Palm Canyon, which persists in spite of the onslaughts of "Civilization."

  51. Joe, the orange faced, white teethed, hair plugged, phoney, plagerizing Senator that went to a Pricey Prep School to learn how to be Botox Man to the Masses.

  52. The whole Scranton Scam as phoney as the Messiah.

  53. 3 Thousand pays for an 88 Thousand plumber. Barry's World.

  54. My first outside sales job, had Palm Springs in it's area.
    This was 1974 or so. Palm Canyon was still there, then. I spent a lot of time there, more than was justified by the accounts.
    It was still kind of a small town, then. Later when they moved the Gran Prix jumping horse shows to Indio, I got to go back for a few days, it had changed, a lot.

  55. Five million, in cash.
    smugglin' smokes
    Who said crime didn't pay?

    They just didn't know when to quit.

  56. Pat Lang:

    The GOP and the income tax.

    A new feature of the ever evolving memes and themes of the McCain presidential campaign is the accusation that Obama is in favor of a "redistribution of wealth" in the United States through what amounts to confiscatory taxation. Both McCain and his familiar, Rick Davis, have been saying that (paraphrase) "Americans do not want to see income redistributed through taxation" and that to redistribute income in that way is (paraphrase) "not the American Way."

    They must be talking about some other "America," an "America" that exists in a parallel universe, hidden away behind the walls of the "Racket club," or the "River Oaks Country Club."

    This "America," the one that most of us live in has had a graduated, progressive income tax as a feature of life and death for as long as any among us can remember.

    Now, it is true that the denizens of that other, more exclusive "America" often manage to use the intricacies of the tax code in their favor so as to not pay very much income tax. Warren Buffet's famous remark that his cook (or some such person) actually pays more tax than he does come easily to mind. Nevertheless, a progressive income tax is what we have.


    This is what I was getting at last week. You can call redistributionist policies bad policies. You can note that they are socialistic, collectivist, punitive. You can vote against them. But they are also by now a part of our culture.

    Here in Colombia, whopping taxes are laid on (relatively) big-ticket "luxury" items, with a special, added North Bogota (where the rich live) consumption tax, which goes to various programs supporting the poor. This is an accepted part of their culture. In a country that is not a happy haven for Marxist intellectuals.

    None of which is an argument in favor of redistributionist policies.



    The federal income tax went into effect in 1913 with a top marginal rate for married couples of 7 percent on taxable income in excess of $500,000 (the equivalent in today’s dollars of about $10,187,000). Under the pressure of paying for America’s participation in World War I, the TMR was raised to 77 percent in 1918 on taxable income in excess of $1 million (the equivalent of $13.36 million in 2006 dollars).
    During the next 20 years (1919 to 1939), the top marginal rate declined to 25 percent in 1925 (kicking in at $1.15 million in 2006 dollars) and stayed there until it jumped to 63 percent in 1932 when it was applied to taxable income in excess of $1 million ($15.52 million in 2006 dollars). In 1941, on the eve of American participation in World War II, the TMR was 81 percent on taxable income in excess of $5 million (the equivalent of $68.61 million today).
    Taxes were higher during wars
    During the war years, the top marginal rate ranged from 88 percent to 94 percent on taxable income in excess of $200,000 (the equivalent of $2,241,000 in 2006). The TMR declined to a range of 87 percent to 84 percent in the years after World War II, but returned to the 91 percent level for the Korean War and remained at that level through 1963.
    The American people recognized that World War I, World War II and the Korean War were critical to our future as a nation, and that everyone needed to make some financial sacrifices to sustain our war efforts, especially those who had received the largest financial rewards from living in the U.S.
    From 1951 through 1963, the top marginal rate was 91 percent on taxable income in excess of $400,000 (the equivalent of about $2.64 million in 2006 dollars). Today, many folks would look on a 91 percent TMR as extremely high, but top executives in 1962 were considered to be very well-paid, although they received relatively modest sums compared to majority of their 2006 counterparts.
    In 1971, the top marginal rate was reduced from 71 percent to 60 percent on taxable income in excess of $996,000 in today’s dollars, and it dropped to 50 percent and remained there until 1987. The TMR was lowered again in 1988, this time to approximately 30 percent.


  57. Couldn't kick the habit.

    Shoulda smoked joints with Joe the Plumber.

  58. A real cheap Saturday entertainment, go over to the Empire Polo Club and watch 'em play. Sit on the deck of the snack bar/club house and watch.

    Good horses, rich people and their entourages, large and small.
    Lot of fun, for free.

  59. Robert Frost said, we have an income tax, we're socialist. Just a matter of how much.

  60. Spuds N More Is Us

    French Fry Invented By Simplot!

    Simplot may have set a record for creating lawsuits, would just go ahead and do what he wanted, let the lawyers sort it out.

  61. Just a matter of how much.

    Thu Oct 16, 11:10:00 AM EDT

    That's about right.

  62. More than 125,000 tamales lovers fill the streets of Old Town Indio to sample every type of tamale one can possibly imagine.

    Activities include a festive holiday parade, carnival, Mexican Folkloric dancing and a variety of live entertainment for all ages

  63. We are a social animal, bob.

    But when the US government can nationalize industries, for the greater good, as they have, what industry is next?

    We assume Health Care, then Transportation and Oil.

    Just like Venezuela.
    or Mexico.

    Trusting to the government, to Obamas of the world, to do the right thing. Make the best decisions. When government has a poor track record of success.

    When Government fails the solution is always more government. And that is what the folk seem to want.

    Thanks to the people at Westinghouse and GE, bringing good things to life, like Mickey Mouse.

  64. This comment has been removed by the author.

  65. Rufus said W's Prescription Drug Benefit for Old Farts was a good thing.
    ...until it isn't.
    But that's not MY Problem.

  66. Simplot was a genius. Figured you could cut a potato up, freeze it, and sell it for a 1000 times what it cost!

    He was a dynamo of activity.

    Yes we are. Need to live in groups. Of some kind. What kind and who rules the roost, that's the question.

    "One man alone doesn't stand a chance." Hemingway

    When Government fails the solution is always more government. And that is what the folk seem to want.

    Or want something for free, and mistakenly think the government can do it.

  67. On the Presidental ballot, in Hawaii, there are five or six names.

    But the big three, Westinghouse, GE and Mickey Mouse have created an image of a binary decision.

    To their benefit and that of the ruling elites, of which they are an integral part.

    That any vote not for "Your Guy" is a vote for his binary media opponent. Since, if they did not "waste" their vote, they'd have assuredly voted for "Your Guy".

    None of the other candidates are "Ready for Prime Time", as decided by corporate and political elites. Protecting their own positions of power.

    It becomes a self fulfilling storyline, continued cycle after cycle.
    As all the really good stories are.

  68. When, in actuality, in Hawaii the election is unipolar.

    There is only one candidate that has a chance of winning, just like in Idaho.

  69. A snippet of the westhawk piece

    If the experiment succeeds, if normal life carries on without U.S. soldiers on the streets, Mr. Maliki will have evidence to argue for a quick exit for the Coalition. If militia fighting resumed, Mr. Maliki could quickly end the experiment by agreeing to an extension of previous patrolling operations.

    Yesterday, Mr. Maliki said British troops were no longer needed for security purposes in southern Iraq. Having reached this conclusion (wisely or not) with respect to British forces, might Mr. Maliki be pondering such a course with respect to the entire Coalition effort?

    If you’re not sure about something, you can always try running an experiment first. Maybe this is what Mr. Maliki is planning.

  70. But the big three, Westinghouse, GE and Mickey Mouse have created an image of a binary decision.

    That is why proportional representation is so crucial. There's never a wasted vote. Your vote and your issues always have a voice, regardless if your party is part of the ruling coalition at that moment or not.

  71. Now, here is an interesting data set.

    Lists the results for each of the State's primaries or cacuses. Dems & GOP

    Seems that Congressman Paul ran from 3 to 8% in many, many States, with upwards of 11% in KS, 21% in WA, 20% in ND, 19% in ME, 16% in MN.

    There is a sizable portion of the electorate that is already willing to dismiss the calls of the power elites and "waste" their votes, for an ideology vastly different that Corporate Republicanism.

  72. This is sad, but true:

    Joe the Plumber [Byron York]

    I don't know anything about Joe Wurzelbacher, but I just have one bit of advice. If you have anything in your past that you're not proud of — a messy divorce, a DUI, an unpaid bill, an indiscreet comment, whatever — be prepared for it to become public knowledge. The lefty blogosphere, along with allies in the press, will see to that.

    10/16 12:13 PM

  73. I recall that whit first dismissed Congressman Paul as some type of wacko. Then, as the debates progressed, came to see the potential wisdom in some of the Congressman's positions.

    About that same time, he was removed from the debate rosters.
    Not serious enough for Prime Time.

    Decided by those that sing
    Don't rock the boat, baby!
    as their theme song.

  74. I didn't watch it, but I've read enough Lowry to accept his take on the debate:

    Last Night [Rich Lowry]

    Here's my take from the New York Post (noted in the briefing). McCain tried very hard, and probably did better than before, but he's just not a very good debater (check out Jay's excellent points) and not a very reassuring presence. He doesn't come off as an elder statesman, unfortunately. It's Obama who appears at these forums to be a, I don't know what, a younger statesman? But he's always calm and explains himself very well. I'm hoping that Dick Morris is right that McCain found an issue on taxes on Joe the Plumber, but McCain would be in a much better position to attack here if he had endorsed (I know, I know I'm boring myself) a substantial middle-class tax cut. See Ross on this.

    10/16 11:55 AM

  75. The questions that are really interesting and left unasked ...

    Referencing that freighter with the 33 T72s that was hijacked, by Somali pirates.

    Ukrainian equipment on its way to Kenyan military.
    Which is opposed to Obamasan's cousin's tribal faction, correct?

    Or is the Army neutral in these politcal civil wars?

  76. Wonder who's in the market for stolen T72s, or their parts?

    Wonder who did not want those tanks to get to Kenya?

  77. Wonder who's in the market for stolen T72s, or their parts?

    Somebody, way back then, tried to tell us there's no market for that hardware. The pirates made a big mistake. Can't remember if it was a DoD spokesman or Stratfor. I didn't buy it then, don't buy it now.

    It's hell what age does to memory, but then there's always the other side of that coin. I tend not to remember the details of, or sometimes event the whole events, that were most traumatic. Ask my ex.

  78. Jee.Zus.Christ. Bob. This stuff is beyond parody.

    Something strikes as very naive and disturbing about that statement.

    Naive on it's face, and disturbing because I'd say the speaker is not naive.

    And yet she believes Byron York's take on the plumber.


  79. Last I read the pirates had no idea what the ship was carrying they just wanted the ransom money for the crew (and passengers) and the holding of the crew made it very difficult to storm the ship with a strike team. I haven't heard anything about that situation in a while. I presume they are still holding them hostage.

    I saw on YouTube the McCain attack on Obama regarding Joe the Plumber. McCain looks likes he's talking through his hat regarding tax policy and he's looking even more silly as we learn more about Joe the Plumber.

  80. ...event the whole events,

    ...even the whole events...

  81. "Joe in the Spotlight
    By Larry Rohter AND Liz Robbins

    One week ago, Joe Wurzelbacher was just another working man living in a modest ranch house in Toledo, Ohio, thinking about how to expand his plumbing business. But when he stopped Senator Barack Obama during a visit to his block this weekend to ask about his taxes, he set himself on a path to being the newest media celebrity — and, like other celebrities, found himself under scrutiny.

    Turns out that “Joe the Plumber,” as he became nationally known when Senator John McCain made him a theme at Wednesday night’s third and final presidential debate, may run a plumbing business but he is not a licensed plumber. His full name is Samuel J. Wurzelbacher. And he owes a bit in back taxes.

    The premise of his question to Mr. Obama about taxes may also be flawed, according to tax analysts."

  82. It has been three weeks since the piracy, but still no news on the recovery of the freighter or the cargo.

    The ship is 530 feet long and would need some heavy duty cranes to off load those tanks, you'd think.

    Or the pirates off loaded the small arms and ammo and scuttled her, perhaps.

  83. Now, at the end of this Video report the voice says that pirates are holding a dozen ships and over 200 crewmen.

    The report was dated 28SEP.

    Then, after the 29th, a blackout, of sorts.
    Nothing happened?

    By The Associated Press
    Published: Mon, September 29, 2008

    MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) - An American military spokesman says
    several U.S. warships are surrounding an arms shipment hijacked by Somali pirates.

    Lt. Nathan Christensen of the US Navy's Bahrain-based 5th Fleet says an unspecified number of destroyers and cruisers have joined the USS destroyer Howard within a 10-mile radius of the Ukrainian-operated ship.

  84. Here, an 8Oct update

    October 7: Somali pirates holding the Ukrainian ship revise the ransom demand to US$8 million (Sh576 million), down from US$ 20 million (Sh1.4 billion).

    The ship's freight cargo manifest shows the military hardware was imported by Kenya's Defence ministry as consignee.

  85. I saw some stuff at the NYTImes dated Oct. 11/12 and basically it said there were 6 US warships close by, a Russian on the way, and negotiations were underway. Pirates wanted 20 million. The pirates upped the ante by saying they'd blow the ship up in 3 days if not paid.



  88. I am beginning to understand the democrat's pov...

    As a democrat I just cannot believe it...

    my party has skidded off the road...

    off the cliff...

    How dare we JUDGE Obama for his friendships, after all they OWN Chicago...

    The Mayor is HIS reference...

    Ayers is an UPSTANDING GUY

    and what choice did the ONE have but to BEFRIEND all of those in Chi Town and the south side....

    Of course Louis Farakhan is OK

    As is Rev Wright

    As is the Black Panthers

    As is the right to anarchy at their choosing...

    YEp I just dont "get" it since i cant get past the jew hating, israel hating, western world hating crooks that run chicago....

  89. While there is life there is hope.

    Harvard University