COLLECTIVE MADNESS


“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."

Friday, March 30, 2007

The Iranian government needs an attitude adjustment.




Very few EB readers and commenting members will find much fault with this assessment from the Telegraph.


Heading for war with Iran

By Simon Heffer
Last Updated: 12:13pm BST 30/03/2007

I start to wonder whether it might not be time for us to get as nasty with other countries as they do with us.

As we wait anxiously to see what will happen to our 15 hostages - for that is what they are - in Teheran, we should feel undiluted rage at the behaviour of other countries and institutions towards us.

Mind you, when those third parties witness the drivelling weakness of the Foreign Office over the last week, and in particular the pathetic show put up by our Foreign Secretary - who must surely be just about the worst in our history - who can blame them?

There is no doubt the 15 were in international waters when captured, or that they were undertaking a United Nations mission in pursuit of upholding UN resolutions. Yet the best the UN itself can do is pass a weak-kneed resolution describing its “grave concern”, rather than a tougher one calling upon all nations to “deplore” Iran’s behaviour.

This is all the fault of Russia, to whom Mr Blair routinely cosies up, and whom the civilised world invites to its annual G8 summit meetings. Russia seems to think it isn’t worth “deploring” the kidnap of our sailors, so we had better start to show Russia what we think of it: by uninviting it from the G8 this year, and every year until it learns some manners.

When not busy ordering the murders of his opponents, Vladimir Putin seems to enjoy hobnobbing with the leaders of civilised countries, so such a sanction would hurt.

We don’t have the means to engage in gunboat diplomacy with Iran, and any special forces operation would be fraught with risks both for the hostages and their rescuers.

For the moment, ever-stricter sanctions on Iran seems the only answer. America is resolute about this. So too, oddly, is the world’s greatest sanction-busting nation, France. So the scope for tightening the economic ratchet on Iran, and the means to do so, look healthy.

However, we should be under no illusions about the effectiveness of such weapons.

Saddam Hussein, after all, was put under sanctions for years. Real hardship was caused to his people, but almost none at all to him and his ruling clique.

President Ahmadinejad of Iran has already threatened Britain about our involvement of “third parties” - that is, the UN - in the present dispute, showing his utter contempt for that organisation.

He would treat sanctions with similar disdain, happily cutting off the noses of his own people to spite their faces. And all the time, the threat he and his inherent instability pose to us all would never cease growing.

Whatever the immediate outcome of this crisis, Britain has some hard decisions to make. Is it worthwhile, any longer, to work through the United Nations?

So long as a morally warped nation like Putin’s Russia calls the shots in the Security Council, no.

We can make debating points about how odd it is that Putin deplores Islamic nutters when they attack his forces but is relaxed about them attacking ours, but in the end there is no point in bothering.

The UN showed itself to be weak with Saddam Hussein. It is no better now.

If we are going to continue to try to be a player in the Middle East, then we have to throw in our lot with the Americans, for no-one else makes the blindest bit of difference there.

The capricious, and indeed downright wicked, behaviour of the Iranians towards our sailors confirms one other thing: that the civilised world cannot let the Ahmadinejad regime develop nuclear weapons.

It is not just his oft-repeated enthusiasm for wiping Israel off the face of the earth that should worry us: it is what this madman might decide he wants to do to anyone else within range.

This is no time for our clueless Government to be mothballing the Navy and cutting down the other services. For, at some stage, Iran’s lethal contempt for the rule of international law is going to mean war.



138 comments:

  1. time to put a boot in the ass of iran...

    let's start with arms for the iranian kurds & Balochis

    and while we are at it...

    let's start covert attacks against revolutionary guard targets

    let's take out the iranian electric grid

    let's take out the gasoline refinery

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  2. "Is it worthwhile, any longer, to work through the United Nations? So long as a morally warped nation like Putin’s Russia calls the shots in the Security Council, no."

    This is a good sentiment, but Simon Heffer is a curiosity in Britain, he's the equivelent of what we would call a paleo-conservative here, along the lines of George Will.

    This is no time for our clueless Government to be mothballing the Navy and cutting down the other services. For, at some stage, Iran’s lethal contempt for the rule of international law is going to mean war."

    Taking 15 American sailors hostage on the high seas would mean war, precisely because we have sufficient assets for force protection. There would be no talk like Heffer here, saying, "Boy oh boy, Iran, you better watch out, one of these days you'll go to far and really get it." America would just start hitting things like their oil terminals and gasoline refineries, ratcheting up the level up pain until we buy our hostages back.

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  3. The free world has forgotten how to be heavy-handed. I mean dirty dog mean, heavy-handed. The U.S. and it's allies will continue to be challenged by the evil doers of the world because they know there will be no major response. Its time Ahmadinejad was cold, stiff, and on a slab. Glad I live in the Heartland.

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  4. Did you foget? This generation (boomers) only knows talk,talk,talk not kick ass, kick ass, kick ass.

    Britain will beg forgiveness and we will probably throw in several billion in aid. Sad times.

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  5. Forget (can't spell this morning)

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  6. He left out the part about bombing Qom, and Tehran back into the Stone Ages.

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  7. We know how, young jake, we know how.

    That you youthlings have the capability to kick ass, if that is the course decided upon, is because we built and paid for it, for you.

    What will be needed, for US to take action against Iran, will be more than losing a squad of British sailors and Marines at sea.

    It will take more than a firefight in the desert, last September.
    More than a few Iranian IEDs and sniper rifles found in Iraq.

    It is not because us old folk do not know how. It's because Mr Bush doesn't want the youthlings to pay the price for learning those lessons we've learned, as well.

    It may be a misplaced sentiment, wanting to maintain your standard of living, to heat & cool the US cities and feed 300 million folk.

    Let's ask bob or rufus how farming would go, when the price of diesel triples.
    How would the truckers fare?

    As our experience in Iraq and Vietnam have taught us oldies, it is easier to start a war, than to win it or even leave the field after a war is won.

    You all will get your turn to decide, to weigh the cost and the benefits, for US. Go vote.

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  8. If you have time, look at the video link on Maggie Thatcher(three posts back).....17 years ago and worth a listen.

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  9. Ledeen has it right.

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  10. DR
    No youthling here, spent my time in Nam. I'm a boomer and my statement stands. We reap the indecision and PC that we have sown. We have power but we don't project it.
    No problem with the military here, just the jackasses that make policy.

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  11. Dr--I hear you loud and clear. However, I am beginning to think voting doesnt do as much as it used to, and I vote at every opportunity. MSM spends everything to their liking, controlling what we see and hear (and think, if we allow).

    The most vile and evil person on earth can sit in the most remote place on earth and watch CNN.

    MSM gets us to wring our hands when things go bad. They press us to go in to rehab if we call someone a name. They control our lives. We are truly children of the media.

    What was build by the oldies, as you say, has been taken away. 9-11 has been completely forgotten. Another 9-11 will wake us up, but we will only turn over and go back to sleep.

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  12. spend?...I meant spin...geez

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  13. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  14. Deuce, Ive been around a while, I mostly just read the posts of others and ponder, sometimes I don't even ponder....

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  15. DR
    I might add that we are not too far apart on our views. Jake JR has been to Iraq twice and I spent the better part of last fall up at Bethesda Navy with him.
    I saw Nam and belive if we are going to commit our military to anything that we should create one huge shitstorm, crush the enemy, and put the pieces together afterwards on our own terms. Otherwise stay the hell out. I grow weary of talk,talk,talk by both sides.

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  16. Well, jake, excuse my assumtions about your age.

    I agree that our policy makers have been on the wrong course for a long while. There is no major politico that shares that opinion, as to the course we would support.

    No elected official I've heard advocates for striking Iran. Not a one that I've heard.

    The US Government denies that we are even engaged in a World War. This fact brought home to US all last summer, when the GOP still held all the DC cards. After Hamdan, the President and Congress had the chance to face reality and passed.

    It's not a Generational issue, I don't think. More of a realpolitik decision then anything else.

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  17. I hope jake jr fares well and was not damaged beyond repair.

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  18. The use of UN rhetoric has interfered with "discipline" needed in various parts of the world. Not only are they looked upon as the "valid" source of world opinion, but repeatedly neglect taking any type of proper follow through. Why anyone would use the UN as a basis for deploying troops is beyond me. They can't even back their members when being confronted and taunted.

    The phrase "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" needs to be dusted off and updated to current standards. Western nations are so afraid to use force outside of UN authorization that outlaw nations are thereby gaining strength every year. The world is getting more and more dangerous, just like it would be in America if guns were outlawed.

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  19. Rudy's the One
    The free-market leader of the GOP field.

    BY STEVE FORBES
    Friday, March 30, 2007 12:01 a.m. EDT

    Rudy Giuliani is the real fiscal conservative in the 2008 presidential race. That's why I'm endorsing him for president.

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  20. I assume that most here (as am I)are political news junkies. My observation is that us junkies tend to get overly pessimistic at times. I belive (hope?) that the Republic will survive.

    Afterall,we made through Jimmy Carter.

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  21. Made it through.....damn keyboard

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  22. Bartender, give Jake, here, a beer. Make it a Bud. None of that pussy euro shit for a U.S. Marine.

    ps I hope everything's working out for Jake, Jr.

    Semper Fi

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  23. Thanks for the beer Rufus.
    BTW if you are a farmer can you afford it? I am also involved in agriculture so I know how it goes. haha

    PS. Jake Jr will be OK and awaits his med boards. Thanks

    PSS. Jr and me both Army in a family of Marines. (Jr ended up at Bethesda because thats where the specialist is) Believe me, we are both blacksheep because of it.

    semper fi rufus

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  24. Barstool Economics

    The world is totally explained at the Elephant Bar.

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  25. ARMY?

    BARTENDER! MAKE THAT TWO BEERS!

    I thought I was bein cute. The Bethesda's what got me.

    Actually, Jake, I grew up on a farm but that was a long, long time ago. I haven't had to wipe cow shit off of my boots for forty years, at least.

    I just post on alt fuels a lot, because I'm really interested in them. I just think it's the future starting Mos Skosche.

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  26. There's something about the smell of cowshit in the morning.........

    Later, I've got to get back to work.

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  27. I don't necessarily subscribe to the "Charles Krauthammer created the Universe" theory of being, but I think he's got it About Right, here.

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  28. FORBES: Rudy Giuliani is the real fiscal conservative in the 2008 presidential race. That's why I'm endorsing him for president.

    Rednecks don't give a crap about fiscal whatchamacallits, it's all about God, Guns, and Gays, and they're going to treat Rudy "Partial Birth Abortion" Giuliani like a leper.

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  29. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  30. Then the War on Terror will end on 20 Jan 2009.

    None of the other viable candidates will give a shit about it. None have a personal stake in it.

    The moniker may live on, but so does the War on Drugs, the War on Poverty, the War on Illiteracy, the War on Want (UK), the War on Christmas & the War on Internet Spam.

    The most interesting War, though, is reported at MSNBC

    Persian War
    In response to the film ‘300,’ Iran says it will defeat Sparta.

    March 20, 2007 - In what foreign policy experts believe to be a direct response to the hit American movie “300,” Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad today declared war on Sparta. Even for the mercurial Ahmadinejad, the move struck many diplomatic insiders as extraordinary, since the consensus in the international community is that the city-state of Sparta no longer exists.

    But, according to a close associate of Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president’s thoughts turned to war after seeing a matinee showing of “300” this past Saturday at the Tehran Cineplex 12. “He was hopping mad at the way the Spartans kicked the Persians’ butts,” the aide said. “I haven’t seen him this angry since he saw that thing with Hugh Grant and Drew Barrymore.”

    At a press conference in Tehran today, President Ahmadinejad directed his most barbed comments at the 300 Spartan warriors depicted in the film. “So you think you are a match for the entire Persian army?” Ahmadinejad said. “Well, let’s see if you’re a match for Iran’s nuclear program!”

    Hours after the Iran president issued his taunt, however, a White House spokesman pounced on the remarks, claiming that they were proof that Iran’s nuclear program was not as peaceful as Ahmadinejad has purported. But Ahmadinejad rebutted the charges, telling reporters in Tehran, “We have been building a nuclear reactor for peaceful purposes only, but now we plan to drop that peaceful reactor on top of those damned Spartans.”

    Elsewhere, a new report indicates that the British eat too much salt, Americans do not eat enough fruit and vegetables, and Nicole Richie has not eaten since 2004.

    at the The Borowitz Report.

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  31. Deuce,

    The Thatcher tape was great!

    She was a dynamo.

    The left sounded then very much as it sounds today.

    Thanks!

    PS: One thing has changed: Saddam Hussein was hanged this time.

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  32. Just a week ago, the Iranians took British hostages. A lot of water will flow under the bridge between now and election day '08. With the help of Allah, the West may be forced to use more force.

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  33. jake wrote:

    "I saw Nam and belive if we are going to commit our military to anything that we should create one huge shitstorm, crush the enemy, and put the pieces together afterwards on our own terms. Otherwise stay the hell out. I grow weary of talk,talk,talk by both sides."

    Isn't this more commonly known as the "Powell Doctrine"?

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  35. Ahmadinejad said... but now we plan to drop that peaceful reactor on top of those damned Spartans.”

    I hope that somewhere in the shadows and dark of night that SF soldiers are working on this asshats demise.

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  36. Isn't this more commonly known as the "Powell Doctrine"?

    I don't think so. To me, the Powell Doctrine is more like when you've got their ass whipped, and on the run, call it off and let them "live to fight another day."

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  37. Beat me to it rufus. Powell is no warrior.

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  38. Then the War on Terror will end on 20 Jan 2009.

    Of course it will end then. Remember Hillary said it would be immoral for GWB to be in Iraq past that date. That's also why they want an 18 month pullout deadline. Really convenient huh?

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  39. Rednecks don't give a crap about fiscal whatchamacallits, it's all about God, Guns, and Gays,

    Reply: Northern elitist BS.

    Makes as much sense as what you said doesn't it?

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  40. Today's Lesson: Political Correctness.

    "Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical
    liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
    which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a
    turd by the clean end."

    Class Dismissed

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  41. ..."EU foreign ministers, meeting in Germany, sent a message of solidarity with Britain over Iran's detention of 15 British naval personnel. They warned of "appropriate measures" if Tehran does not release them immediately."...

    An appropriate response would be the recognition that Iran does not subscribe to normal state to state relationships, cares not a whit for international law, or any mandates from the UN. It would be appropriate to assume, that Iran needed something with more conviction and could not be trusted with mere words or written agreements.

    It would be appropriate for the EU to note that it needs a military with some tooth and jaws that do more than talk.

    It would further be appropriate for the EU to see Russia for what it is, nothing helpful and to see the US for what it is, a lifeline when needed.

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  42. 2164th,

    For Europe, more so than with US, there are more options then the military one.

    "But there is something Europe should do: flex its economic muscles. The EU is by far Iran's biggest trading partner. More than 40% of its imports come from, and more than a quarter of its exports go to, the EU. Remarkably, this trade has grown strongly in the last years of looming crisis. Much of it is underpinned by export credit guarantees given by European governments, notably those of Germany, France and Italy. According to the most recent figures available from the German economics ministry, Iran is Germany's third-largest beneficiary of export credit guarantees, outdone only by Russia and China. Iran comes second to none in terms of the proportion of German exports - in recent years up to 65% - underwritten by the German government.

    The total government underwriting commitment in 2005 was €5.8bn (£3.9bn), more than for Russia or China. As the squeeze grows on Iran from UN sanctions and their knock-on effects, and as President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad fails to deliver on his populist economic promises, this European trade becomes ever more vital for the Iranian regime - and ever more dependent on European government guarantees to counterbalance the growing political risk."

    Faced with Iranian blackmail, Europe must show real solidarity


    Iran depends on German government export guarantees. Let the EU presidency put its money where its mouth is

    Timothy Garton Ash

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  43. Ash,

    I agree with your assessment. In an ironic way, although the euros will not admit it, Iran is proving to them that they really are a part of an axis of evil. They certainly have put themselves in a position where they are generating few converts to their cause in Europe.

    Putin with the magic murders, sudden deaths and suicides and their automatic and predictable obstructionism is also helping repair any transatlantic rifts.

    The Muslims have no sympathy throughout Europe and it is more noticeable from the man in the street.

    All in all, I like the direction that the West is heading towards. The worse is behind us. I hope.

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  44. Another case in point. This is a direct slap against Russia under Putin, and they do care.

    "World Press Freedom Prize for Politkovskaya
    UNESCO has awarded its World Press Freedom Prize to murdered Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya. It is the first time that the prize has been awarded posthumously since its foundation in 1997.

    Anna Politkovskaya was shot dead at the door of her Moscow apartment last October. She was an outspoken critic of the government of Russian president Vladimir Putin and its military campaign in Chechnya."

    The jury praised Anna Politkovskaya for showing "incredible courage and stubbornness" in continuing to report on Chechnya while "the whole world had given up on that conflict "

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  45. For those of you who think Mark Steyn is a brilliant essayist, here's a part and the whole.
    "Once again, we face a choice between bad and worse options. There can be no “surgical” strike in any meaningful sense: Iran’s clients on the ground will retaliate in Iraq, Lebanon, Israel, and Europe. Nor should we put much stock in the country’s allegedly “pro-American” youth. This shouldn’t be a touchy-feely nation-building exercise: rehabilitation may be a bonus, but the primary objective should be punishment—and incarceration. It’s up to the Iranian people how nutty a government they want to live with, but extraterritorial nuttiness has to be shown not to pay. That means swift, massive, devastating force that decapitates the regime—but no occupation."

    Facing Down Iran by Mark Steyn

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  46. Trish,
    You have NO idea what the Administration and the NSC is contemplating.
    If you're going to prognosticate who will do what why not chose what Israel's response is going to be in the next year or less and whether we'll continue, as we always have, to back her. The very next paragraph of Steyn's essay is this.

    "The cost of de-nuking Iran will be high now but significantly higher with every year it’s postponed. The lesson of the Danish cartoons is the clearest reminder that what is at stake here is the credibility of our civilization. Whether or not we end the nuclearization of the Islamic Republic will be an act that defines our time."

    So I wouldn't count too heavily on your estimation of waht you THINK the Bush administration is going to do. So far he's the only one who counts who holds to the concept of victory. If BeBe wins in Israel, Bush will have a soul mate in nuking Iran.

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  47. "Here's a safe bet: It's certainly not an echo of Mark Steyn."

    Iran is now militarily encircled by US forces. American troops (and aerial refueling tankers & a constellation of air platforms) are based in almost every country bordering Iran - Afghanistan, Iraq, Turkey, Pakistan and Azerbaijan.

    The Nuclear powered aircraft carrier USS Nimitz will sail Monday to support US operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, and its battle group of destroyers and guided missile cruisers, will relieve (or augment-meaning 3 U.S. carriers in the region?) the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower.

    Ash reporting/advocating financial warfare with Iran.

    The U.S. Congress removing language requiring Bush to seek congressional authority before attacking Iran.

    The Sunnis threatening a nuclear arms race in the ME.

    Israel finishes ABM drills.

    Better save those bets, Las vegas wasn't built on winners

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  48. habu1 wrote:

    "That means swift, massive, devastating force that decapitates the regime—but no occupation.""

    That wouldn't keep the Straits open and we'd suffer the consequences from that. In addition, we've got a bunch of soldiers right next door occupying Iraq - do you think the Iranians haven't noticed those targets?

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  49. trish wrote:

    "There will be no war with Iran."

    I hope you are right, and I'd bet that any way they've war gamed the conflict it hasn't been pretty but nations can slide into war even against sound judgment.

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  50. He noticed them, ash, but does not care much about them. They're all expendable assets to habu.

    The attacks on Iran were to be completed, before US elections, back in '06. That was the last "sure thing" habu assured US of. Swore he'd not post here again, until the deed was done.
    His pants are a burnin'

    I do agree with Steyn, if we're going to strike Iran it must be massive, it must be devastating, it must destroy their capacities.
    Not incremental escalations.

    Doubt it happens, no matter the assets in the area. Not Mr Bush's style. Nor Mr Olmerts.

    The Adminstration has decieved old habu. Part of War, you know. Deception.
    Unless the Iranians strike at someone with that nuke they bought from the Russians, stole from the Ukranians, developed with the Pakistani or had delivered from the NorKs. The US will rattle its' sabres, wait and watch, some more.

    The US Government certainly has the capacity, but not the desire to burn 'em down.

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  51. Ash,
    Mark Steyn wrote that. I simply conveyed it to the blogsite.

    However I do believe Mark Steyn is correct and that you are wrong.

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  52. Friday, March 30, 2007
    Michael Yon on Tal Afar
    Michael Yon on Tal Afar
    Posted by Dean Barnett
    Dean,

    The news from Tal Afar was very sad, but not very surprising. The civil war first became obvious to me in early 2005, and I started writing about it in February 2005. It has been growing ever since. Violence on the streets is severe.

    The civil war is very real. It's not an apparition or a politically-contrived term. The flames of civil war are real, and the flames were not made hotter by calling them fire. It is what it is.

    Yes, the civil war is very real, but not everyone here is a party to it. There are many, many Iraqis who want to see their country come together. I see these Iraqis all the time.
    Michael

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  53. More bird droppings....a belief that Israel will simply allow Iran to go nuclear without striking as she has done before.

    Self deception/hallucination doesn't make for clear strategic thinking.

    The President has stayed the course, and knows there is not substitute for victory.

    And IF I ever stated that I would not post here again "until the deed was done, I'd love to see that particular statement. If it exists it was a misstatement, but I don't think it exists....find it for me birdman. Prove your veracity.
    (now here's where the entire 2164 sychophant machine goes inot high gear combing the archieves for the definitive statement)
    I hope they spent a good deal of time locating it, then I'll do what's common in politics and say , as I did above, it was a misstatement.
    Quick like bunny rabbits, scurry and hurry to find the statement.

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  54. 2164th: Putin with the magic murders, sudden deaths and suicides and their automatic and predictable obstructionism is also helping repair any transatlantic rifts.

    The final breach won't be sealed until January 20, 2009. That's why you should be hoping for Mrs. Clinton to win rather than Obama or Edwards (I think we can rule out any GOP candidate right now, and especially if Bush has the troops playing dodge the IED and passing out soccer balls in Iran in the next two years). All the candidates want socialized medicine, but at least Hillary won't drive over the cliff on foreign policy.

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  55. What aspect of Mark Steyn are you referring to dear? It was an essay of some lenght and you may have missed some of the more subtle and nuanced prose.
    But you'll have to be more specific. And please don't attempt to set up the false premise that the Administration has played it's last hand as you seem to think it has.

    Oh one more thing Trish I need to help you with. You made a consecending remark several months back about me saying something on the order of "no one in the CIA calls it the Company"

    Well that was a lie. See I did work for the CIA during the 1970's,prior to and during the Watergate era and Cold and Hot Wars the US was fighting.
    I can tell you where the was located in the main building.
    I could tell you all kinds of things you can't find in books or on the net about the Company..but if you wish to put everything you own against everything I own on a bet that I worked covertly for the CIA in the 1970's ...I'll take that bet. We'll have lawyers draw up the paperwork and then you can be a homeless person.

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  56. Let me interrupt the silence -

    Would this classify under the topic of the thread?

    MOP: 30,000lb Precision-guided Bunker Penetrator

    The new Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP) is the most powerful conventional penetrating weapon ever designed. Developed by Boeing, it is designed specifically to attack hardened concrete bunkers and tunnel facilities.

    MOP is a part of a technology demonstration program funded by DTRA. The aim of the program is to develop a 30,000-pound conventional penetrating weapon especially designed to penetrate hard and deeply buried targets.

    MOP is 20-feet-long which will be carried aboard B-2 and B-52 bombers and deployed at high altitudes. MOP is equipped with innovative design features including a GPS navigation system and packs more than 5,300 pounds of explosives.

    MOP has been tested successfully for a static tunnel lethality test March 14 at the Defense Threat Reduction Agency’s (DTRA) weapons tunnel complex at White Sands Missile Range, N.M.

    Bob McClurg, Boeing Advanced Systems MOP program manager, speaks about the significance of MOP...

    The weapon’s effectiveness against hard and deeply buried targets allows the warfighter to hold adversaries’ most highly valued military facilities at risk, especially those protecting weapons of mass destruction.

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  57. Habu: ...if you wish to put everything you own against everything I own on a bet that I worked covertly for the CIA in the 1970's ...I'll take that bet. We'll have lawyers draw up the paperwork and then you can be a homeless person

    We're talking about the Company here. We're not talking about dudes who went around clandestinely reviewing restaurants for the Culinary Institute of America.

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  58. Patience...first SEAD must be achieved

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  59. Those Pigs just wanted to Rat out the Rats, T.

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  60. A freind of ours, fellowpeacekeeper is having one hell of a week. Stop over and say hello:

    "Monday, March 26, 2007

    Weekly attack on Diwaniyah V/07
    March madness continues unabated in Diwaniyah. First up, late news on the usual post Friday sermon Islamic rage attacks

    March 23 Camp Echo is hit during the evening by several mortar bombs (Lv MoD)

    March 24 Shots directed towards Camp Echo during the evening (Lv MoD)

    DIWANIYA - The bullet-riddled body of a military intelligence officer was found in the centre of Diwaniya, 180 km (110 miles) south of Baghdad, police said. (Reuters),

    but elsewhere in the former MND(CS) area :

    Hilla- At least eleven civilians were killed and 45 were wounded on Saturday afternoon when a car bomb detonated near a Shiite mosque in north of Hilla, 100 km south of Baghdad, a police source said.(Iraqslogger)
    March 25 Nothing reported from Diwaniyah but :
    Hilla- Fierce clashes erupted on Sunday morning between armed groups and citizens mourning the victims of a suicide bombing at a (Shiite) mosque that killed 11 and wounded 45 on Saturday north of Hilla. (Iraqslogger)
    March 26
    DIWANIYA - The body of a man was found with gunshot wounds, bound and bearing signs of torture on Sunday in the southern city of Diwaniya, 180 km (110 miles) south of Baghdad, police said. (Reuters)
    And its only Monday.
    Rearguard

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  61. Trish,
    I was in the "Company". I know.
    You are guessing.
    I was there.

    Now I'll admit the CIA isn't today the CIA I worked for. I understand it is filled with leftests from the Carter and Clinton years who have totally prostituted it's charter. Perhaps today they no longer ever refer to it as the company but my wager still stands and I'll stand by the fact that not only was it vocalized as the "Company" but it was certainly referred to as the "Company in correspondence.
    Why do you think one of the biggest traitors in it's history, Philip Agee entitled his book (which gave the names of covert operators in S. America and cuased their deaths) named his book
    INSIDE THE COMPANY: CIA DIARY ???

    Here take a good look:

    Inside the Company

    or

    Inside the Company

    ReplyDelete
  62. House Rules:

    Keep it civil. Personal attacks will get bounced out the back door.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Whit...must be a new house rule. Why just the other day 2164 referred to the need for brass knuckles inside the bar.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Whit is calling someone a poltroon a "bounce out" offense?

    Also please define what words can be used and which can't or is this going to be just an arbitrary call.

    Also can you tell me where in the archives to look for the rules?
    Thanks
    Habu

    ReplyDelete
  65. Trish, come in Trish..did you have a chance to check the Agee book?

    ReplyDelete
  66. I think that it is the Gitmo Military Tribunal that needs the attitude adjustment.
    Australian David Hicks just got a slap on the wrist for fighting with the Taliban against the good ole US of A in Afghanistan.

    GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba — An Australian who pleaded guilty to supporting terrorism was sentenced Friday to nine months in prison after becoming the first detainee convicted by military tribunals at Guantanamo Bay.

    A panel of military officers recommended a sentence of seven years after two hours of deliberations, but a plea agreement that had been kept secret from the panel members capped David Hicks' sentence at nine months.


    I suppose that this time next year Mr. Hicks can decide if he wants to return to old comrades and rejoin the war against the infidels.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Trish,

    While I'm not particularly a fan of NPR here is an audio review of a spy novel(claims part truth part fiction) called The Company...it is strange how all these people refer to the CIA as The Company.

    The CompanY

    ReplyDelete
  68. Now i know something is amiss -from Der Spiegel?

    ...Daniel Jonah Goldhagen, the American historian who in his 1996 book "Hitler's Willing Executioners" deprived the Germans of the belief that they didn't know what was going on back in the day, is currently studying the history of genocides in the 20th century. One of the things he has noticed is that the politicians or military leaders who planned genocides and had them carried out rarely concealed their intentions in advance. Whether the victims were Hereros, Armenians, kulaks, Jews or later Bosnians, the perpetrators generally believed that they were justified and had no reason to hide their murderous intentions.

    Today, when Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad talks about a world without Israel while dreaming of an atom bomb, it seems obvious that we -- as Germans of all people -- should be putting two and two together. Why shouldn't Ahmadinejad mean what he says? But we Germans only know what we believe.

    The Americans are more dangerous than the ayatollahs? Perhaps the Americans should take the Germans at their word for a change. It's high time for a new round of re-education. The last one obviously didn't do the job.

    Claus Christian Malzahn is SPIEGEL ONLINE's Berlin bureau chief.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Trish,
    You sound so subdued, so WRONG.

    Allow me to set a situation for you in which two covert officers are in public and want to refer to the CIA.

    The setting is Wakiki Beach circa 1972, poolside at the Sheraton Wakiki having a chi chi and wondering in the midst of a bad recession what the poor folks are doing.
    "Jack"
    "yeah"
    "where's the company got you going?
    "Angola"
    "How 'bout you?
    "Helsinki" ....

    Now do you think it would go like this?
    "Jack"
    "yeah"
    "where's the CIA sending you?"
    "Angola"
    "How 'bout you?
    "Helsinki"

    Be smart and pick the first one ..it's the correct answer.
    Best regards,
    Habu

    ReplyDelete
  70. Habu -
    you have made your point

    Perhaps we should all have a drink of humility from the bar

    the first round is on me

    ReplyDelete
  71. A Firefight Right Now [W. Thomas Smith Jr.]

    BAGHDAD (3:08 pm EDT—10:08 pm Iraq Time) Pardon the cliche, but all hell is breaking loose not far from my position, right now.

    It began when a helicopter flying near our villa popped a few flares. A few insurgents on the ground started shooting at him. I was inside at the time, but heard it clearly. Then I dashed up to the roof. Soon a bomb exploded out toward Route Irish, then another — a huge 'boom' and yellow flash. Then I could smoke rising up through the yellow flash.

    Some flares popped, followed by short bursts of automatic weapons fire.

    Now gunfire is crackling a block or so southwest of my position.

    There's another explosion.

    I hear some more helos roaring in.

    It's actually quite a show!



    03/30 02:51 PM

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  72. Habu: Be smart and pick the first one ..it's the correct answer.

    None of the above. More like, "Where's th black bag job?"

    "We're setting up a proprietary in Angola and they need someone who won't balk at a little wet work. And you?"

    "Helsinki. There's some parlimentarians there who aren't looking tooo good, they're slated to come down with the measles."

    ReplyDelete
  73. Civility, civility, it is afterall the only thing that seperates us from the infidels.....Oh, we are the infidels.....

    Barkeep another round

    ReplyDelete
  74. Baba1, stop with the farting. Damn, it feels like the first day in kindergarden. All the butt sniffing is sure to make SOMEONE horny.

    ReplyDelete
  75. The Hamdan Decision and the way the Congress and the President dealt with it tells the Tale of the Terror Wars, a series of unconnected, local civil wars.

    Hamdan raises, in one tidy package, virtually every issue that our international law casebooks attempt to canvass. Moreover, it raises them in connection with a timely issue of obvious import about which our students can be expected to have strong views; as opposed to say the application of the Sherman Act (compare Hartford Fire Insurance v. California).

    Want to address questions about who in the United States interprets a treaty and with which tools? A nice place to start would be the majority’s determination of what is meant by a conflict that is not “international” – which was crucial to its decision that Common Article 3 applied (Stevens opinion, Part VI (D)(ii); compare Thomas dissent, at Part B(2)(according treaty interpretations made by the President great weight). That section of the Stevens opinion draws on a variety of materials to interpret a US treaty obligation, including prior US cases, the Commentaries to the Geneva Conventions, the opinions of scholars, and decisions by the ICJ and international criminal tribunals. Another Hamdan treaty interpretation lesson occurs with respect to the majority’s interpretation of what guarantees are accorded under Common Article 3’s reference to a “regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.” (See Stevens opinion, at Part VI(D)(iii), plurality opinion, at Part VI (D)(iv), but see Thomas dissent at Part B(3)). Post-Hamdan Senate hearings have understandably focused attention on another treaty interpretation issue: namely whether Common Article 3’s ban on “cruel treatment and torture” and “outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment” is an “inherently vague” phrase requiring further legislative clarification, especially if we are expected to give “respectful consideration” to how others outside the United States have interpreted terms which are supposed to be enforced through US criminal sanctions (compare comments by Harold Koh, Senate Judiciary Committee, July 11 to comments by Attorney General Gonzalez, Armed Services Committee hearing of Aug. 2, 2006 and comments by Steve Bradbury and Senator Sessions, Senate Judiciary Committee hearing of July 11, 2006).

    Hamdan’s attempt to enforce Geneva law, as well as the Court’s intriguing side-stepping of whether certain Geneva rights could ever produce domestic legal effects even without the benefit of US implementing legislation (see Stevens Opinion, footnote 58, at p. 64-65 and footnote 61 at p. 66), can also provoke discussion about how treaties are rendered “enforceable.” Should treaties be subject only to diplomatic enforcement at the state to state level or when rights they contain have become “ripe”-- as Thomas suggests in dissent (Thomas dissent, at Parts B(1) and B(3))?

    Want to address the status of treaties as “law of the land” and the later in time rule under Article VI of the US Constitution? You can’t do better than post-Hamdan Senate testimony wherein witnesses generally agree that while Congress could decide to abrogate in whole or in part Geneva law, taking such a step would produce evident reciprocity concerns with respect to the treatment of captured US troops or its special forces (see, e.g., testimony by Koh and Silliman, Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, July 11; and testimony by Adm. MacDonald in the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Aug. 2).

    Want to address the status of customary international law in US law, including its treatment by US judges, especially given prominent revisionist critiques of what The Paquete Habana really meant on this score? Consider what the Court majority had to say about how Common Article 3 ought to be interpreted (see above), or what four of the justices in the majority say about the alleged international crime of conspiracy to commit war crimes (Stevens opinion, part V) or the role of customary international law and Article 75 of Protocol I in determining the rights of those accused of crimes, including before military commissions (Plurality opinion, at Part VI(D)(iv)). (Interestingly, Justice Thomas’s dissent does not dispute the use of customary international law; he simply argues that relevant precedents, both national and international, support the charge of conspiracy for war crimes.) Want to address whether, as is discussed in section 115, Preporters’ Note 4 of the 1986 US Restatement on Foreign Relations, the President himself may be bound by international law? Consider the Court’s careful side-stepping of this issue by framing the question presented as one involving what Congress did or did not authorize and get the students to compare Hamdan’s approach to the separation of powers to such survey course war-horses as US v. Curtiss-Wright and Dames & Moore v. Regan.

    Of course, Hamdan provides a great vehicle to raise a number of prominent and contentious post- 9/11 issues. Did the Court really say, as the Bush Administration has subsequently contended, that it is perfectly legal for the United States to detain, even in perpetuity, any and all detainees held in the “war” on terror in Guantanamo or elsewhere so long as these are not tried through unfair military commissions? (compare Washington Post editorial by Jack Goldsmith and Eric A. Posner urging indefinite detention, accessible at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/03/AR2006080301257.html; see also discussion of indefinite detention in the Senate Judiciary Committee and the Senate Armed Services Committee hearings of Aug. 2, particularly exchanges between Sen. Spector and Adm. MacDonald and Gen. Rives). If so, is Hamdan really a case that affirms the human rights of all human beings or only a pyrrhic vindication of Congressional prerogatives? Will the Court’s conclusion that Common Article 3 applies to Al Qaeda and the subsequent Defense Department memorandum affirming that all Al Qaeda detainees are to be treated in accord with its provisions really change how the United States deals with the interrogation of suspects, even if by the CIA or by countries to whom the US renders persons? (See the exchange between Senator Leahy and Steve Bradbury in the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on July 11). This has been addressed in at least some of the post-Hamdan Senate hearings where it is apparent that there continues to be a divide among those who, like military JAG officials, condemn the use of any and all testimony obtained by coercion (see generally, Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on Aug. 2, testimony by General Black, Adm. MacDonald, and Gen. Rives) and those who fear “coercion” itself is a manipulable constraint that should not stand in the way of successful investigations and prosecutions for terrorism (compare comments by Lt. Cmdr. Swift, Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, July 11, to Steven Bradbury and Paul Cobb at Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, July 11, and by Bradbury at Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Aug. 2). The post-Hamdan Senate hearings also highlight divisions of views on such matters as whether the law, national and international, ought to err on the side of deterring over-zealous interrogators or protecting the public from further potential terrorist acts (compare exchange between Senator Richard Durbin and Steve Bradbury, Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on July 11; compare comments by Harold Koh and Theodore Olson, Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, July 11; exchange between Sen. McCain and Attorney General Gonzalez, Senate Armed Services Committee hearing, Aug. 2).

    ReplyDelete
  76. That fellow thought the Decision a "Good One" for the Internationalists.

    Local Civil Wars, that is what Article 3 covers. Local Civil Wars.

    Not a War on Islam
    not a War in the Middle East

    No, it's a civil war in Iraq
    a civil war in Afghanistan
    a civil war in Somalia
    a civil war in Lebanon
    a civil war in Kahsmere
    a civil war in Sudan
    a civil war in Pakistan
    a civil war in Thailand

    Not an "International Conflict"

    via Hamdan and subsequent legislation.
    That's the Law of the Land.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Rat:
    You have been talking about Hamdan lately. Making the point that I tried to make when the Supreme Court misapplied the articles of the Geneva convention. Under one article, non-uniformed, enemy combatants engaged in a conflict of an international nature are not accorded the same levels of protection as uniformed regular troops are. The liberal justices on the court ignored the facts about the international terrorists in Afghanistan and accorded them the protection of the more restrictive article. Something which is questionable altogether considering that al-Qaeda is not even a signatory. The Geneva Convention is not sufficient to address the issue of terrorists operating across international boundaries around the world yet that is what we have tied our hands with.

    ReplyDelete
  78. One thing we know for sure:
    Islam is not behind any of this crap.
    ROP, Brother.

    ReplyDelete
  79. And that international terrorist,
    David Hicks got NINE Months!

    Serve in OZ, where, shall we lay odds, do they give him credit for time served, and pay him a stipend for the rest of his time at Gitmo?

    Or make him serve those NINE MONTHS doing hard time?

    This is what happens when the US does not keep its' allies informed.
    Seems that the Aussi Foreign Office did not know about that plea deal. Drew a line in the sand, David Hicks will do the full term, maybe seven years:

    ACTIVISTS pushing for the early release of self-confessed terrorist David Hicks will be wasting their time, Foreign Affairs Minister Alexander Downer has said.
    Under a plea bargain, Hicks will be sentenced to serve no more than seven years at an Australian prison under a prisoner transfer agreement with the United States.

    His trial and sentencing process before the US military commission at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba has now reached a jury deliberation stage.

    Hicks' US military defence lawyer, Major Michael Mori, has asked for Hicks to serve one year and eight months, but the US prosecutor has asked for the full seven year sentence to be imposed.

    Mr Downer welcomed the conviction which he said brought "to an end a long saga."


    But he Bush Government made a deal, all but nine months suspended sentence. Will the Haditha Marines should get get such a deal?

    A US military tribunal sentenced Australian al Qaeda trainee David Hicks on Friday to seven years in prison but he will only have to serve nine months of the sentence.

    Hicks, who became the first war crimes convict among the hundreds of foreign captives held for years at the Guantanamo prison camp, had pleaded guilty to supporting terrorism in an agreement with US military prosecutors.

    The deal allowed all but nine months of the sentence to be be suspended. He will serve it in Australia, and the United States must send him home by May 29.

    The tribunal judge accepted Hicks' guilty plea as part of an agreement that limited his sentence to seven years in prison, in addition to the five years he has been held at the Guantanamo base in Cuba.

    The former kangaroo skinner from Adelaide acknowledged that he trained with al Qaeda, fought against US allies in Afghanistan in late 2001 for two hours, and then sold his gun to raise cab fare and tried to flee by taxi to Pakistan.

    Hicks, 31, denied having advance knowledge of the Sept. 11 attacks. His attorney, Marine Maj. Michael Mori, portrayed him as a now-apologetic soldier wannabe who never shot at anyone and ran away when he got a taste of battle.

    The prosecutor, Marine Lt. Col. Kevin Chenail, said Hicks freely joined a band of killers who slaughtered innocents. "We are face to face with the enemy,"


    NINE MONTHS
    Bush Justice!

    Should have told the Aussies, at least. Save 'em from lookin' the fool.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Great link, Bobal:
    I propose we replace General P with Nancy P.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Do they grow dates in Ideeho?

    ReplyDelete
  82. one should realize that the struggle is ongoing & fluid DR; it should not be judged prematurely

    it was you informing all of us to listen to the laws of the land with regards to vigilantes

    perhaps you should heed your own advice with regards to Hamdan
    or should we all pick and choose which laws to follow?

    besides, law dog doesn't seem to have a long reach in some parts of the world

    ReplyDelete
  83. General Grandmother Pelosi.
    Survivor of Multiple Surgical Procedures.
    (give grandma a purple fart)

    ReplyDelete
  84. Exactly whit, It is worse then just "rights" to terrorists it defines the scope of the wars on terror. By Law, but the Congress could have "Internationalize" the conflict rendering the Article 3 interpretaion null & void.

    But they did not.
    It was a Republican controlled Congress. There was no fight, no public debate, they crafted Tribunal rules to comply with the Decision. As per Justice Department reccomendations, from Mr Gonzo and his boss, the President.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Elijah,
    What pray tell do you mean?
    Are you agreeing w/me that a global Islamic Struggle is beyond belief?
    ROP Baby!

    ReplyDelete
  86. At least it's a lot better than '39-45, when we had the French Civil War, Algerian, Polynesian Island, Italian, Polish, on and on, Civil Wars.

    ReplyDelete
  87. there is no doubt that a global struggle is underway and there is no escaping it

    and make no mistake iran is not iraq

    ReplyDelete
  88. I support obeying the Law as devised. These Wars are all local and civil.

    I think that foolish, and unwise.
    Others may think it wise or just.

    The Iranians are not involved, in an International War, just a series of local civil wars around the world.

    Why should the US be picking sides in local civil wars? Why should we choose Shia here, Sunni there and spill US blood to secure it?

    If it is deception, they've decieved the resolve right out of the homefront.

    It's just a deception that the US has armed Hamas, through Fatah with 3,000 M16s and a million rounds?

    Well, elijah, I've been decieved, then. I certainly do not think the US is "doing its' best".

    ReplyDelete
  89. "It's just a deception that the US has armed Hamas, through Fatah with 3,000 M16s and a million rounds?"
    ---
    SIMPLETON!
    ...part of the master plan.
    Just You Wait.

    ReplyDelete
  90. "Because the World is Round,
    It Turn's us ON!"

    ReplyDelete
  91. Which do you prefer, Trish?
    Forever,
    or
    Again and again?

    ReplyDelete
  92. A couple of good articles out of Anbar.

    I hope this guy is right.

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  93. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  94. The Skull % Boners,
    code for the Internationalist elites, won another round with Hamdan.

    Turtle Bay will get remodeled,
    Uncle Sam will get high grossed.

    It's all good.

    Who gives Mr Bush his counsol?
    Ms Rice, Mr Gates & Mr Baker, reconcilers all

    Mr Rove, wants some war drums to dance to, but no blood, cause if it bleeds it leads. Retaliation strikes would be PR bummer.

    Mrs Bush & Mrs Hughes, not hawks in flight.

    General Casey, and the Joint Chiefs ... another war, against 75 million people, from the air ...
    34 days of Lebanon vs B-52s and B2s on call ... what do the JAG guys say?

    Tony Blair - give him a call
    Yo Blair!

    Not a real shooter in the bunch.

    ReplyDelete
  95. although deception is at play on the homefront, the simple fact is that there are many who hate this administration more than the enemy. I give you Rosie, HuffPo, and Kos as just but a few examples. Such individuals will always view the West as oppressors

    even a good man like yourself dwells on the negative, on the administration - as if the democrats will lead us to victory

    hamas and fatah, what are m-16s against the Israeli air force? and gaza is a fish bowl isn't it? the islamists can make a move on israel at any time. they should proceed with caution.

    Concerning Hamas, well... it is much easier to be a resistance movement as opposed to acting as a government for its people - drowning in shit literally

    Well, elijah, I've been decieved, then.

    ...you have, by your own negativity

    I certainly do not think the US is "doing its' best".

    america at its worst is better than the rest of western civilization at its worst

    ReplyDelete
  96. america at its worst is better than the rest of western civilization at its....best

    ReplyDelete
  97. doug, you shouldn't have:

    Al Reasin said...
    As I often write to politicians:

    Just days before his execution at the hands of the Khmer Rouge, Cambodian statesman Sirak Mitak penned a final note to the U.S. ambassador refusing his offer of evacuation.

    "I cannot, alas, leave in such a cowardly fashion. As for you and in particular for your great country, I never believed for a moment that you would have this sentiment of abandoning a people which has chosen liberty....You leave and my wish is that you and your country will find happiness under the sky.

    "But mark it well that, if I shall die here on the spot and in my country that I love, it is too bad because we all are born and must die one day. I have only committed this mistake in believing in you, the Americans."


    the habus and those other coverts didn't stay behind, to fight & die for freedom for free.

    They came home because the Mission was over, without victory nor even success. The US Government had decided, right or wrong to leave & the Government dictates the Mission.

    There is a long list of foreign names that the US Mission has abandoned, that's how we do it.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Of course, elijah, without doubt.

    Primo A Number One.

    Been there, seen it, came home.
    It sucked everywhere else, compared to the US. Europe, South America, Asia. The US is grander and more spectacular, the people a product of the greastest self-selected immigrants in the world.

    Go back for fun & games. Secure in my passport and cash. Little risk in the places I go, south of the border, down Central America way.

    It's all America now.

    ReplyDelete
  99. By Joseph Farah
    © 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

    WASHINGTON – Participants in a high-level, closed door, three-day conference on the integration of the three North American nations debated whether openness about goals was preferred to a stealthy policy of building infrastructure before a vision of the end result was even laid out to the people of the U.S., Mexico and Canada, according to notes obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request.

    Official notes taken on a session on "Border Infrastructure and Continental Prosperity" at the North American Forum in Banff, Canada, last September, reveal the internal debate over continued secrecy.

    "While a vision is appealing, working on the infrastructure might yield more benefit and bring more people on board ('evolution by stealth')," record the notes discovered amid documents obtained by Judicial Watch.
    ...
    Participants promoted the idea of using popular issues, such as concern over climate change, to push integration of energy and environmental governance and the possibility of imposing a carbon tax.

    Judicial Watch released yesterday the documents it received in a FOIA request from the U.S. Northern Command, whose commander, Admiral Timothy Keating, participated in the conference along with Northcom political adviser Deborah Bolton and Plans, Policy and Strategy Director Maj. General Mark Volcheff. A similar request concerning participation in the North American Forum meeting by former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is still pending.

    At least one attendee of the conference said the meeting was intended to subvert the democratic process. Mel Hurtig, a Canadian author and publisher elected as the leader of the National Party of Canada, told WND last fall the idea of the North American Forum is to move the countries toward integration without public consent or even knowledge.

    "What is sinister about this meeting is that it involved high level government officials and some of the top and most powerful business leaders of the three countries and the North American Forum in organizing the meeting intentionally did not inform the press in any of the three countries," he said. "It was clear that the intention was to keep this important meeting about integrating the three countries out of the public eye."

    The conference raised more suspicions about plans for the future merger of the U.S., Canada and Mexico – with topics ranging from "A Vision for North America," "Opportunities for Security Cooperation" and "Demographic and Social Dimensions of North American Integration."

    Confirmed participants included Rumsfeld, former Secretary of State George Shultz, who serves as co-chairman of the North American Forum, former Central Intelligence Agency Director R. James Woolsey, former Immigration and Naturalization Services Director Doris Meissner, North American Union guru Robert Pastor, former Defense Secretary William Perry, former Energy Secretary and Defense Secretary James Schlesinger and top officials of both Mexico and Canada. But the only media member scheduled to appear at the event, according to documents obtained by WND, was the Wall Street Journal's Mary Anastasia O'Grady.

    The event was organized by the Canadian Council of Chief Executives and the Canada West Foundation, an Alberta think-tank that promotes closer economic integration with the United States.

    The next meeting of the North American Forum is set for Oct. 12-14 in Puerto Vallarta.


    It's a quick flight or a long two day drive, to Pueto Vallarta.

    ReplyDelete
  100. One thing good coming from the Iranian piracy is it is clarifying people's perspectives in the problem between the Muslim world and most everyone else. This from the Washington post:

    ..."Whatever the motive, Iran is faring well in the public relations battle in the Middle East, she said. While many in the West accept the British government's version of events, a great number of people in Arab countries believe Iran is telling the truth. Khalili said many people in the Middle East are "profoundly suspicious" of the British, because of their historical role as a colonial power in the region and because of the "very recent history of false information about the Iraq war."...

    It is going a long way to ending moral equivalency and that is good for us in the long game.

    ReplyDelete
  101. perceptions, if the current crew of habus are good, then of course the brothers have been bought. They provide a steady stream of well spun news from the battlefront, to encourage the home team. Well and good.
    Not nearly enough, really.

    That youtube channel I heard about, the Units should all be issued cameras and laptops.
    Flood the net with GI content.

    Send a 1000 cameras and mac laptops, the publlics perceptions would change.

    Throughout the information wars in the Region, out of Dubai or the Emirates, we should have local mouthpieces.
    Why not pay them?

    Why tell the world?

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  102. Deuce,

    re: many people in the Middle East are "profoundly suspicious" of the British

    And the Americans, and the Europeans, and especially the Joooos.

    Inevitably, it will become what it has always been to "them": us against them. It will just take mountains of Western dead, needlessly sacrificed to the PC illusion of the RoP.

    Wasn't it the Wahhabist, Saudi king who declared open season on Americans in Iraq this week, when he mouthed the propaganda of al-Qaeda? Oh, that's right, I forgot, Wahhabism is the source from which Sunni, militant Islam flows and, of course, the King is the godfather of al-Qaeda.

    ReplyDelete
  103. When there were 800 embedded reporters with the troops, there was 60%+ support for the effort.

    When there were a dozen, support tanked to 31%.

    Supply content that supports the Mission, by passing the MSM filters, go direct to the market. FOX and other will pick them up and mainline cable the best of the lot.

    1,000 units at retail, camera and Mac lap top and software, good servicable stuff under $10,000.

    $10 million bucks to turn perceptions around at home. While we spend over $1 Billion a week, just to keep on keepin on.

    First made this suggestion around a year ago, the military is moving in the right direction.

    Faster Please.

    ReplyDelete
  104. Well when I was there, doug, when current Panamanian president Martin Torrijos's daddy "The Bull" Toorrijos's airplane fell out of the sky, right after 2 USAF O-2 Skymaster went down in about the 120 days prior.

    I always felt that Mr Noriega was the force behind the trigger, maybe with Castro's help. That was also the "View on the street" amongst the Panamanians I knew.

    As my one amigo said, "There's only room for one at the top in Panama".

    There were only a million people there, then. About 3 million now.

    ReplyDelete
  105. While Israeli children play soccer and baseball, the Palestinian Authority spares no expense in training its youngsters in more important pastimes.

    Praying and Playing

    H/T to LGF

    At least it isn’t one of Dr. Rice’s M-16s. That would be embarrassing to me, if not Dr. Rice.

    ReplyDelete
  106. Don't even think it again, allen.

    Could be contagious

    ReplyDelete
  107. Aren't those M-16s part of the
    PEACE PROCESS?

    ReplyDelete
  108. Bad enough it looks like an Uzi.

    This was one of the captions, deep into the slice show

    Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh from Hamas speaks to supporters during prayers at a mosque in Gaza City, Friday, March 30, 2007. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert hailed a new peace initiative from Arab states as representing a 'revolutionary change' but repeated Israel's opposition to any return of Palestinian refugees in a series of newspaper interviews published Friday. (AP Photo/Hatem Moussa)

    A revolution all right.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Allen,

    When I first started posting over at Belmont, I used the phrase: "Islam is the problem." I was rebuked, by some, for being jingoistic and racists, too broad a brush. The only mainstream media that would publish a post if I used the phrase was Radio Netherlands. I was banned from the BBC. Now a couple of years later, at least we can sensibly define the problem.

    I sometimes hit GWB hard for the post 911, White House Rammadam party. On reflection, there was probably more to it than the sarcasm in which I presented it. It was probably a reflection of some basic goodness and belief inside the man, that he really did believe Islam was good but was captured by some bad people.He really is Wilsonian.

    Project that forward, and you can understand that Bush genuinely felt Islam and Muslims could be freed from the oppression of evil doers. He could not see, or did not want to believe that Islam itself was the problem, and is inherently evil, much like witchcraft, devil worship and cannibalism.

    ReplyDelete
  110. Bob, I believe I can speak for all here at the EB and say that it is always a treat and a refreshing delight to get your input and view on things. Thank you.

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  112. doug,

    re: PEACE PROCESS

    How much time must pass before a "process" becomes an epoch or an eon? The only peace recognized by the Arabs is that of the grave.

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  113. A not too subtle insight into the official view of the Iranian regime. towards hostage taking

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  114. bobalharb,

    Your USAF at work.

    Thousands of UFO sightings were reported when observes caught glimpses of stealth aircraft.

    For some reason, the public confuses UFO with extra-terrestrial. But then, I could be speaking as the result of the chip implanted during my last abduction.

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  115. Bobal,
    Them bastard GI's turned the Iraqi's faces to Mush!
    Did you see that pic at ITM?
    ...and the po boys were just havin a fish fry.
    ---
    "UPDATE 9: Whoo hoo! Gandhi gets linked at the world best blog site: Antiwar.com! And that, ladies and gentlemen, should be enough to push my hits on this blog over the magic 100,000 mark! I'd like to thank the Academy, my family, and of course the brothers Fadhil...! Oooh, this is just embarrassing now, isn't it George?

    Let me express a little hope and a prayer here. I am an ordinary, working class Aussie father of three who has simply become so outraged by the Bush administration and my own government's War Crime participation in the invasion of Iraq that I have been compulsively blogging against these bastards for about four years. I know poor little Dubya is facing a whole host of big, nasty problems right now, from his failed war in Iraq to his failed manipulation of the justice system in the USA, but I dare hope - and pray - that this little story might just be the straw that breaks the big, fat, oil-guzzling camel's back. "

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  116. Allen,
    Condi told me that kicking the Jooos out of all the Arab States was part of the
    PEACE PROCESS, too.
    She consuls patience: progress has been made.

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  117. Deuce,

    re: Iranian hostage stamps

    Hitler thought the death of Roosevelt would change the outcome of WWII.

    The Iranians and Muslims generally will never understand the West; hence, the Iranian outrage at the cartoon movie "300". Although there is considerable truth to the observation that "we" do not understand Islam, we don't have to; we have the big guns.

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  118. Besides, THEY'RE the Perverts.

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  119. (although I have not heard of one of them dying by taking the big one from a horse.
    Yet)

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  120. When DR initially asked me my thoughts on the Hamdan decision I was in a fog. I couldn't remember a thing about any Hamden decision.

    So I put Bernie Lewis down tonight and went surfing. I found out why I was so in the dark.

    That decision and debate and coverage were in the June,July,Aug and probably a bit beyond that time frame.
    Well I was busy in that time frame watching my father and mother die.
    Dad died on May 27th and I had been in St. Pete to help my sister and be with my family. I was in St Pete for several months. My mother was already bed ridden at my sisters house and had been since about 1/06. She died on August 14th.

    During that period I didn't have time to do much but help out with estate matters and health matters, and being a care giver to my parents. I don't think I did any blogging to speak of and I wasn't watching TV or reading the paper.
    I was focused on losing two special people.
    So Hamden went right past me.
    I've only skimmed the surface of the history and the SCOTUS decision tonight and obviously am in no way ready to talk about it other than to say that my initial reaction is the SCOTUS is out of their minds.....but anyway I'm glad I'm not losing a grip on all reality. That one slipped by because of family concerns and my losses, greiving and burials.

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  121. Texas Tricks and Kicks

    ARLINGTON, Texas (AP) -- Darrell Roberson came home from a card game late one night to find his wife rolling around with another man in a pickup truck in the driveway.

    Caught in the act with her lover, Tracy Denise Roberson -- thinking quickly, if not clearly -- cried rape, authorities say. Her husband pulled a gun and killed the other man with a shot to the head.

    On Thursday, a grand jury handed up a manslaughter indictment -- against the wife, not the husband.

    The grand jury declined to charge the husband with murder, the charge on which he was arrested by police.

    "If I found somebody with my wife or with my kids in my house, there's no telling what I might do," said Juan Muniz, 33, who was having lunch Friday with one of his two small children at a restaurant in the middle-class suburban Dallas neighborhood where the Robersons lived. "I probably would have done the same thing."

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  122. "One thing good coming from the Iranian piracy is it is clarifying people's perspectives in the problem between the Muslim world and most everyone else. This from the Washington post:

    ..."Whatever the motive, Iran is faring well in the public relations battle in the Middle East, she said. While many in the West accept the British government's version of events, a great number of people in Arab countries believe Iran is telling the truth. Khalili said many people in the Middle East are "profoundly suspicious" of the British, because of their historical role as a colonial power in the region and because of the "very recent history of false information about the Iraq war."...

    It is going a long way to ending moral equivalency and that is good for us in the long game."


    Given current trends, I'd say that our opinion makers would go out of their way to rationalize it or just ignore it. On Thursday I sat in a, we'll call it a discussion, on political Islam. The Middle Easterners in the back were quick to sing the praises of groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah for delivering the, so vital services at which the governments fails, i.e. supposedly running the trains on time. The Westerners sat there or joined in while they continued with the the usual dose of 'it is all your fault.'

    The only person that openly reacted negatively to the Political Islamists as welfare saviors was the exiled Iranian in the class.

    -True story.-

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  123. The saw goes: "Middle Easterners never forget. They just misremember."

    Not exactly true - they do, as a general rule, forget anything that can't be twisted onto someone else.

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  124. bobalharb: Apes Win Human Rights?
    This might not be so bad, they are conservative creatures(?), they might vote republican.


    And when the GOP candidates start throwing shit at each other before the convention, they'll be the best judges of who is winning.

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  125. Allen: Although there is considerable truth to the observation that "we" do not understand Islam, we don't have to; we have the big guns.

    The bigger the guns, the bigger the West's self-imposed taboo to use them. Meanwhile the Islamists are using everything they can get their hands on. Pakistan developed their nukes within the framework of a long-standing rivalry with India, who tested in 1974. The presence of India's much larger military force on their back door acts to temper any Paki thoughts of nuclear adventurism in the Middle East. But Iran has no such framework.

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  126. This is one of my "ominous online lists" that Catherine was talking about, based on information from a thread earlier today. The idea is to see all of the Elephant Barflies at a glance. When I learn more I will update it.

    Dramatis Personae:

    2164th....................
    Allen......................."Pine Straw Heaven"
    Bobalharb...............Moscow, Idaho, USA
    Bob W.....................North Carolina, USA
    Catherine.................
    Cutler......................USA
    Desert Rat...............Southwest USA
    Doug........................
    Elijah........................
    Gag Reflex................Southlake & Mt. Home, Texas, USA
    Habu........................Florida / Montana USA
    Harrison...................Singapore
    Jake.........................Texas, USA
    Lord Acton................Alaska, USA
    Rufus.......................Mississippi, USA
    Sam..........................Australia
    Teresita....................Des Moines, Washington, USA
    Trish.........................
    What is "Occupation"...

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