“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."

Wednesday, March 21, 2007

The Crow and the crosswalk.

Crows are smart. They are social. They have a hierarchy, a recognizable language and can be trained. I have some chimes at the back of my farm house. Rather than throw scrap food away, I take it out the back, ring the chimes and within a minute the crows arrive.

At one time, when I was a boy, crows blackened the skies over corn fields in Pennsylvania. No longer.

The big murder of crows have vanished, but their antics continue to amuse their admirers.


  1. That's all fake.
    Animals can't think.

  2. Doug: That's all fake. Animals can't think.

    I'm gonna caw you on that one.

  3. Tarik "Bastinado" Baba
    Is History,

  4. Not Impressed

    How many times have you heard that President Bush's approval ratings are low? Guess what: the Democratic Congress's approval rating is lower.

    For some reason, this hasn't been getting much press. But the low esteem in which voters held Congress prior to November's election barely changed after the Democrats took power in January. Today, Gallup notes that the modest bounce Congress experienced in January and February is now gone:

    The modest uptick in approval of the job being done by Congress has dissipated for the most part after only two months.
    According to Gallup's monthly update on job approval of Congress -- in a March 11-14, 2007, national poll -- 28% of Americans approve of the job being done by Congress and 64% disapprove.

  5. For the Sceptics
    (You know who you are)

    I spoke yesterday with Major General Michael Barbero, Deputy Director for Operations at the Joint Chiefs, about conditions in Iraq. I asked specifically about the Quds Force:

    HH: Do you continue to see the Quds forces of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard operating in Iraq?

    MB: They have been operating in Iraq. I do not have any recent intelligence on their recent activities.

    HH: How big of a deployment do they have there, General?

    MB: Probably can’t discuss the numbers, but they have been active. We’re convinced that they’ve been participating in the training and equipping of some of the Shia extremist groups, and rather than talk about specific enemies, you know, we will conduct deliberate operations against any forces or individuals who attack our forces.

    HH: General, can the Quds forces, though, deploy and operate without the knowledge and approval of the highest levels of the Iranian government?

    MB: The Quds force are an arm of the Iranian government. Their mission is to export the revolution.

    It would be hard to believe that there are any free agents from the Iranian forces operating inside Iraq.

    - Hugh Hewitt

  6. I guess Ledeen ain't a Complete Loon.

  7. Algore for President of the Universe!
    (of Fat)

  8. Big Deal, Rufus:
    Algore is Carbon Neutral!

  9. 4 Houses, 400lbs, lots of Carbon Credits.

  10. By Dick Morris

    When will the Bush administration grow some guts? Except for its resolute -- read: stubborn -- position on Iraq, the White House seems incapable of standing up for itself and battling for its point of view. The Democratic assault on the administration over the dismissal of United States attorneys is the most fabricated and phony of scandals, but the Bush people offer only craven apologies, half-hearted defenses, and concessions. Instead, they should stand up to the Democrats and defend the conduct of their own Justice Department.

    There is no question that the attorney general and the president can dismiss United States attorneys at any time and for any reason. We do not have civil servant U.S. attorneys but maintain the process of presidential appointment for a very good reason: We consider who prosecutes whom and for what to be a question of public policy that should reflect the president's priorities and objectives. ...
    But instead of loudly asserting its view that voter fraud is, indeed, worthy of prosecution and that U.S. attorneys who treat such cases lightly need to go find new jobs, the Bush administration acts, for all the world, like the kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar. All Republican supporters of the administration can do is to point to Bill Clinton's replacement of U.S. attorneys when he took office. Because the president and the attorney general insist on acting guilty, the rest of the country has no difficulty in assuming that they are.

    Bush, Rove, Gonzales and Co. should explain why the U.S. attorneys were dismissed by emphasizing the importance of the cases they were refusing to prosecute. By doing so, they can turn the Democratic attacks on them into demands to go easy on fraudulent voting.
    ... If only the administration would show some courage.

  11. Well crows may be smart but they're no match for the Google pigeons.

    That's all fake.
    Animals can't think.

    The Google pigeons are monitoring your remarks and they're not happy.

    Tom Tancredo is crowing today and calling for Attorney General Gonzales to step down. Unlike the Democratic lynch mob out to get Gonzales, Karl Rove and any other Bush crony they can get their hands on, Tancredo's criticism is right on the mark.

    WASHINGTON — Presidential hopeful Tom Tancredo has joined the growing chorus of lawmakers calling for U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales to resign — only not for the usual reason.

    Unlike others criticizing Gonzales over the recent firing of eight U.S. attorneys, the Colorado Republican said the embattled attorney general should go because of "a series of leadership failures" — chiefly his handling of illegal immigration prosecutions.

    "Gonzales' legacy at the (Justice Department) has been one of misplaced priorities, political miscalculation, and a failure to enforce the laws which he has sworn to uphold," Tancredo said in a statement Tuesday. "I think that it is time for him to move on."

  12. "the Bush people offer only craven apologies, half-hearted defenses, and concessions. Instead, they should stand up to the Democrats and defend the conduct of their own Justice Department."
    They are "men" in name only.
    Perhaps God gave them to us so that we can once again elect Real Men.
    (Trish Scoffs)

  13. Exactly, Stoutfellow.
    The only "man" in Gonzales league (of non-manly men)
    Was Normie Minetta.
    Funny, the Guys that GWB chooses to have around.
    ...then there's Condi.

  14. Kisses Kennedy's ass,
    Keeps Normie Minetta,
    Gives Tenent the Medal of Freedom,
    Loves Gonzales,

  15. The video is heavily edited, if not entirely fake!
    The are no refelections of the crow seen in the cars driving by, so it must have been placed in that crosswalk digitally.
    The nut, it does not leave the talon but seems to fall from beside the crow, another sure sign that the image has been manipulated.
    The proCrow activists have the technolgy, the can maipulate the images until they have US thinking crows can talk as well as walk!

    Bet this was shot by a Crow co-conspirator, how else could they have known the crow would even be there!

  16. You forget that turd of a man,

    What is really funny, now, is that the FEMA Katrina mobile homes that still sit empty, rotting in a AK parking lot. Payng storage fees to "someone".

    The worse Federal foulup of the Century, managed by the exHead of the Arabian Horse Association of America. A hobby business for ripping the heads off the unknowing upwardly mobile if ever there was one.

    Anyone that would hire such a road apple for a Government post, they got what they deserved.

  17. The question, doug, concernig the poll results, vis a vie Congress.

    28% of the public thinks Congress is doing OK 64% do not

    Mr Bush's poll numbers mirror that, with a few more points in the ok column.

    Do you think that the minority of folk that approve of Congress are the same minority of folk that approve of the President, or are they groups of different minorities?

    Is there a core 30% of the Public that approves of the Federal Government, or do the thirds balance out on each side of the spectrum?

    Do we need a new poll to tell US?

  18. You will recall that we had a discussion about the . Vikings and Algonquins we got a very interesting comment at the end of the thread...

    MrKufr said...
    I just remembered that there was also a Swedish colony in New Jersey or Delaware in the 1600's. There could have been some foreign (Scandinavian) words adopted into Lenape at that time.
    Thu Mar 15, 11:30:00 AM EDT

    bobalharb said...
    What about some genetic testing to establish some relationships? Would that be possible?
    Thu Mar 15, 12:17:00 PM EDT

    rufus said...
    Great post, Deuce.
    Thu Mar 15, 12:24:00 PM EDT

    2164th said...
    Thanks for your input mrkufr. Would love to hear more from you about a fascinating topic.
    Fri Mar 16, 03:42:00 AM EDT

    Myron said...
    I am Myron. I wish to reply to MrKufr and bobalharb. I invite you both to visit the decipherment pages posted on the Frozen Trail to Merica web site. >decipherment.

    Mr. Sherwin worked from word lists compiled from 25 different Algonquin speaking tribes by 18 different translators who spoke French, English, and some German. Sherwin was aware of the Swedish colony. He was even able to uncover Algonquin words that came from the English centuries earlier. He could, like Roger Williams, tell the difference between words from ancient Norse, and Old Norse.

    Sherwin explains that the "midh" syllable means, "middle" and "mestr" means, "large." Through the centuries endings were sometimes dropped by some speakers. Also the translators of the 17th century may have missed sounds. (Different tongues hear different sounds better--or worse.)

    So today you may select a few words from a few tribes to convince yourself that Sherwin knew less than you do. (I.e. the Cree used "mino" for "midh.") Perhaps if you study The Viking and the Red Man again, you may better appreciate the results of 18 years of Sherwin’s efforts.

    Re: Genetics

    Yes, it has been done. See >biological.
    The DNA labeled haplography X, a northern European female marker, penetrated into America from the Hudson Bay and down the St. Lawrence River. Men traveled a lot. Eventually the women and the kids came along. Locations of women’s markers are significant.

    Haplogroup X is rare in modern Greenland, because the women walked to America.

    Thanks for the discussion


  19. Cool beans, or grapes, rather.

    This story has so much goin' for it.
    Eurocentric migration into the Americas, before the Spanish ever floated a boat.

    The fleetingness of life and the posterities destroyed or lost to time.
    Climate change and the effects it had on real people, in the past.
    Like ice skating on the Thames, or walking across the North Atlantic

    The majority of mankind lives on the coasts of the oceans, most likely always have. During the last "big flood" when sea level rose 500 feet or so, where did all those people go?

    Hail Atlantis!

  20. Now here is an interesting piece from the Weekly Standard.

    IT IS A WONDERFUL CASE of man-bites-dog, but don't expect to see this headline in any newspaper:
    "Bush administration's efforts to protect women through United Nations action thwarted by European Union."

    Yet that is exactly what happened at the recently concluded Commission on the Status of Women, where the United States' intention to help women (in this case, girls) ran afoul of dominant feminist orthodoxy. The Bush administration introduced a resolution condemning the killing of girls, because they are girls. Such acts include old-fashioned infanticide, the kind of cultural practice the British tried to stamp out in the bygone days of colonial India, as well as the evermore popular use of modern sonogram technology in order to identify and eliminate girls before they are born--what is called sex-selective abortion.

    And this is where the United States met the opposition of the European Union and its allies: abortion-on-demand orthodoxy seems to mean women's total freedom to choose, even if that choice eliminates the next generation of women, for the very reason that they are women.

    The Bush administration's concern about infanticide and sex-selective abortion is not exaggerated; although numbers are difficult to establish, most demographers believe that millions of girls are now killed in this manner every year. The British medical journal Lancet recently surmised that there were perhaps 100 million "missing" girls in the world, girls not allowed to grow into women.

    So, since I'm opposed to the killing of innocent people, on general principle, and have always thought of fetuses as "people", this was interesting news, to me.

    100 million dead baby girls world wide, 20 million babies in the US, a Genocide without precedent in world history. I was all ready to climb a soap box.

    But then I saw who did the study:
    The British medical journal Lancet the same folks that thought maybe 600,000 people have gone "missing" in Iraq and can be assumed dead.

    Never mind, there is no problem with abortion, if Lancet is the source of the data.
    Right or Wrong?

  21. Also in the Weekly Standard, a piece that mirrors my own views of the Mohammedan threat, the real, super duper, Mohammedan threat'

    "In a conversation with this reporter in October 2001, Gen. Gul forecast a future [Pakistani] Islamist nuclear power that would form a greater Islamic state with a fundamentalist Saudi Arabia after the monarchy falls."
    --Arnaud de Borchgrave, August 2004

    THERE REMAINS an inversion of public discourse and policy direction with regard to two of the most significant threats we face. In particular, the most pressing nuclear threat is widely perceived to be from Iran while the more imminent terrorist threat is believed to be found in Pakistan. While both threats remain very real, few seem to understand that the most imminent nuclear threat is posed by Pakistan--the only current nuclear power considerably within reach of becoming an Islamist-run state aligned with al Qaeda, the Taliban, or other Islamists.

    Conversely, Iran's still-developing nuclear weapons program deceptively overshadows the significant state-sponsored international terrorism emanating from Tehran. This, while Pakistan's increasingly embattled--and internally challenged--President Pervez Musharraf stands as the primary buffer between Islamist forces of the ISI, the Taliban, and al Qaeda taking ownership of Pakistan's significant nuclear arsenal of 30 to 50 warheads.

    Iran has a nearly 30-year track record of state-sponsorship of terrorism, complete with funded, supplied, and supported acts of terror and terrorists--Shia and Sunni alike--throughout the region and the world. Yet, though it has produced neither weapons-grade fissile material nor a viable nuclear weapon, Iran is considered by many the world's most urgent nuclear threat, rather than being addressed as the international terror sponsor that it is.

    Likewise, with the presence of expanding safe-havens
    for the Taliban, al Qaeda, and other aligned terrorist organizations, Pakistan is primarily considered a state from which terrorists can prepare and launch future terror attacks. Pakistan certainly has elements which pose a threat of future (and current) acts of terror. However, the unsettling potential convergence of Pervez Musharraf and an assassin's bullet or bomb is all that separates a developed nuclear arsenal from these developed international terrorist networks. Should this happen to a steadily weakening Musharraf, it could give rise to the envisioned Islamist-run power in place of the current Islamic State of Pakistan, perhaps led by former ISI chief and Osama bin Laden friend, Hamid Gul.

    While the terrorist threat from within Pakistan is real and present--more real and present than any nuclear threat from present day Iran--it pales in comparison to the nature of the imminent threat Pakistan's nuclear arsenal poses, with its positive control in increasing doubt.

    But the Saudi/Israeli anti-Iran coalition is not concerned with Pakistan, so neither is US.

  22. Pakistan, home to Mohammeds' Peacekeepers.

  23. As mentioned in the last post, I went to the National Press Club & did the Newt question. It looks like more americans have been killed by illegals than in Iraq. However, the info is annecdotal. It would take someone to do a freedom of information inquiry or a lexus nexus search and a lot of phone calls to track down some numbers suitable for the major media.

    Newt threw it back at me. He didn't seem to understand that the next election hinges on the amnesty vote in congress.

    However, I don't have time to work on this. I'm studying SEO , working on my business, and doing a desalination blog. If someone were interested in taking this up I would gladly swap my very detailed info on doing SEO web sites that can be extremely remunerative. I do PPC search and do very well indeed. I have the inside track on the best info.

    "Taking this up" means doing the research and doing what it takes to get the info up to the national level fast.

    The reason this is vitally important is that congress is taking up amnesty. If they pass the enabling legislation then the conservatives will be zoned out of the presidency well nigh permanently.

    Some verifiable stats on illegal murder rates that showed they were as high as KIA's in Iraq --that made national headlines and national television would--throw a monkey wrench into the gears of congress moves toward amnesty.

  24. The Amnesty Train is a juggernaught, charles, no amount of factual data will slow it down.

    The costs in blood and treasure, lost to the infiltrators is higher than that of the Mohammedan Wars, to US. I think, but so many folks, even those that call themselves "conservative" disagree.
    Even here at the Bar. So it goes.

    As 9-11 so amply evidences, even death and destruction are not enough to end the Status Que of the DC crowd. Even after such a violent and bloody escapade the US refuses to go where the perps are.

  25. DR its not over till its over. There is a concerted effort right now to keep the info illegal murders quiet.

    Everyone near the story knows if it came out that more americans were killed by illegals than Iraq's it would blow amnesty out of the water.

    You know that too.

  26. Well, charles, it seems to me that the reaction of Senator McCain is typical of those in DC. He knows the local costs of the migration and the Feds lack of response to it.

    He does know what is happening in his home State, even if he is out of step with some of his constituents on a myriad of subjects.
    He is not out of step, because of ignorance, but cold electoral calculation.

    The Federals cannot find the gumption to secure the border, let alone figure out how deport rather than to "regularize" up to 20 million of the irregulars.

    The publicity that the news that 20,000 Americans (guesstimate) have been killed by those irregulars will not change the equation.

    Anymore than the fact that sex selective abortions are becoming the norm will effect that debate.

  27. "Irregular residents"
    that has a certain ring to it, ya think?

    No stigmatization with that verbage.

  28. Sounds like you're down with illegal alien murders. Sex selection sounds happy to you too. But neither sex selection or illegal aliens murdering americans will get a public airing unless there are some hard numbers that public figures can stand on.

    I'm not talking about a lot of heavy lifting. I am offering someone the opportunity to participate in history.

  29. Charles. Whit and I will bite. Send to the email address above.

  30. Wish you well on the effort, charles, truly wish you well.

    Just watching Tony Snow and becoming more cynical of DC with each moment that goes by.

  31. 2164th

    I don't see an email above.

    I'll send stuff if get a rsvp to cakilmer at gmail dot com

  32. Bobalharb: Animals can't think. Correct. Just ask Rene Descartes, one of the 'fathers' of western philosophy. According to Rene, animals can't feel either, they just put on a really good act.

    Roger Penrose noted that anaesthetics like nitrous oxide knock out even one-celled animals, like a paramecium, which prompted him to propose that consciousness is something that happens in the network of microtubules in every cell. That bug you're stepping on may not know as much as you, but it is quite aware.

  33. Charles: But neither sex selection or illegal aliens murdering americans will get a public airing unless there are some hard numbers that public figures can stand on.

    The Chinese were only allowed one kid so they selected for boys, and look how that's come to bite them on the ass one generation later. Given enough time it's a self-correcting abuse, if you think about it.

  34. "'s all good."

    The Russians told the Iranians last week that they will withhold nuclear fuel for Iran's nearly completed Russian-built Bushehr power plant unless Iran suspends uranium enrichment as demanded by the UN Security Council.

  35. No hiding behind the keyboard for these patriots, they show us all how to treat warmongering American mercenaries.

    Burn, Soldier, Burn!

    Makes You Proud to Be Panamanian

  36. Whit and Deuce

    I've sent the info that I have on illegal murderers plus some detailed suggestions for how to find the number of american killed by illegals.

  37. Money is not enough to motivate those rioters. They work for free, powered by the courage of their convictions, in spite of the threat of criminal conviction.

    Fear of fines does not stymie their incivility, nor their contemptable rudeness to others that disagree with their inarticulate political positions.

    Just rants of rudeness by those that cannot string two concurrent but divergent thoughts together.

    The Law not an instrument of intimidation against them.
    Same as for irregular residents, the Law does not apply, for those criminals that are determined beyond its' bounds or bonds.

  38. Rat,
    Follow the Money!
    The ROP Nuke is being slid into our future via Saudi Dollars.
    (DC is being bought out more each day)

    The Current and future Mayhem of the illegals is care of corrupt domestic and Mexican money grubbers.

  39. Right on schedule:

    WASHINGTON (Associated Press) --
    Senate Democrats have drafted a $121.5 billion war spending bill that would direct President Bush to begin bringing home troops from Iraq with the goal of ending U.S. combat missions there in just over a year.

    The provision is similar to a resolution the Senate narrowly rejected last week. It failed on a 50-48 vote, falling 12 votes shy of the 60 needed to pass, after President Bush vowed to veto the legislation.

    "United States troops should not be policing a civil war, and the current conflict in Iraq requires principally a political solution," ...
    Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., released details to panel members Wednesday in anticipation of a committee vote on the bill on Thursday.

    Republicans and even some Democrats are expected to bristle at the inclusion of the Iraq policy provision. The measure would require Bush to begin removing U.S. combat troops within four months of the bill's passage.

    The House is expected to vote Thursday on a similar $124 billion spending bill that would finance the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The House bill, which Bush also threatened to veto, would demand that combat troops be out of Iraq before September 2008, possibly sooner.
    But some Republicans might have a tough time turning the proposal down because it is attached to a bill that provides much-needed funding for troops in combat, assistance for fishers and farmers, hurricane reconstruction and other popular spending projects.

    Byrd's bill would leave an unspecified number of troops behind in Iraq for anti-terrorism missions, to train Iraqi forces and to protect coalition infrastructure and personnel. Of the more than 140,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, fewer than half are combat forces.

    Does Mr Bush have the political skills to turn a veto of money to support the troops into a condemnation of the Congress?

    He has shown little capability of such capacity in stemming the Gonzo Conspiracy.

  40. This comment has been removed by the author.

  41. This comment has been removed by the author.

  42. "... Pfc. Bryan Howard, 20, also pleaded guilty to conspiracy to obstruct justice by lying to his superior officers about the attack last year in Mahmoudiya, 20 miles south of Baghdad. It was one of the most shocking atrocities in the Iraq war.

    Howard could get up to 15 years in prison at a sentencing hearing expected to begin later Wednesday.

    Five soldiers were charged in the rape of Abeer Qassim al-Janabi and the killings of her, her parents and her younger sister. Two of the soldiers previously pleaded guilty and said Howard's role was minimal.

    Howard told the judge Wednesday he was left behind at a checkpoint while four other soldiers went to rape the girl. Howard said he overheard the four planning the attack.

    Howard said he only started to realize that someone had been killed after the soldiers returned about 10 minutes later. He said the four soldiers were in a "hectic state and hyper."

    Howard said he saw blood on one of the soldier's uniforms, but he didn't remember which one.

    "I was slowly starting to believe what they had done, that they had committed the crimes, the rape and the murder," Howard said.

    Spc. James P. Barker and Sgt. Paul E. Cortez, who have pleaded guilty to rape and murder, have said they took turns raping the girl while Pfc. Steven D. Green shot and killed her mother, father and younger sister.

    One shares some sympathy for Pfc Howard, a young soldier who misplaced his loyalty and honor.
    He discarded his Oath to support and defend the Constitution, replacing it with misplaced loyalty to his squad. Squadies that obviously did not deserve that loyalty.

    Like others wearing the US uniform, without regard for the responsibility that the uniform implies, these young troopers' disregard for the Rules & Regulations have caused the US great damage in Iraq.

    So much of the good done by US, in Iraq, erased by just ten minutes of rape & murder.

  43. Tenaya Miller, also of Mount Shasta High School, said she “believes in peace.”

    “The money should be used for making our nation stronger, not killing people,” Miller said.

    Another speaker recommended a documentary film, “The Ground Truth” that portrays soldiers who have served in the war that are either opposed or question its motives.

    5th Year

  44. ‘Suspicious’ Twist to Death of Cricket Coach"

    Students mourned their nation’s cricket coach in Multan, Pakistan, on Tuesday. (Credit: Asim Tanveer/Reuters)
    The story of Pakistan’s cricket team that lost to Ireland in the World Cup on Saturday took another surprising turn last night as the death of their coach was labeled “suspicious” by Jamaican police.

  45. Referencing the last thread, here at the Bar, I see that over at the BC wretchard tells the tale of Toyota's Prius vs the Hummer in an enviormental throwdown.

    Seems when all the mitigating circumstances are factored in:

    As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

    The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

    The Hummer is the Greenest Machine.

    Preconcieved Perceptions can be decieving.

  46. He died earlier this month in fighting in Anbar province.

    Another good man gone, to empower radical Shia Mohammedans in Iraq's Islamic Government.

    In an effort to make all of Iraq look like the Basra success. So that the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution Iraq stays large and in charge.

    What a misappropriation of a patriots' sacrifice.

    Let US reflect upon his mother's loss and the good cause he was sacrificed for.

  47. Wjile this sailor is finally off the Seven Seas

    (New Haven - AP) _ A former Navy sailor who was arrested two weeks ago on terrorism charges was indicted today in Connecticut.

    Hassan Abujihaad is accused of supporting terrorism by disclosing secret information about the location of Navy ships and the best ways to attack them. Investigators say he provided those secrets, in the form of classified documents, to a suspected terrorism financier.

    He is expected to appear in court Friday to answer the charges.

    Abujihaad was charged in a two-count indictment returned by a grand jury in Bridgeport on charges of providing material support to terrorists with intent to kill U.S. citizens and disclosing classified information relating to the national defense.

    If convicted, he faces up to 25 years in prison.

    The uniform does not make the man.

  48. This comment has been removed by the author.

  49. Bobal - "One of the funniest things I've seen, besides a pheasant hitting a phone wire, is the geese around here, sometimes in the fall, they seem to fly while drunk, like a United pilot maybe. They are going along in a vee, then bango, they flip all the way over, like doing a roll in a fighter aircraft. Must have been eating fermented grain."


    Interesting. What is happening mechanically?

    The lead bird starts flying a slow spiral, say CCW. At first blush one might assume the giant Vee formation would tend to go into a similar CCW spiral, but if the lead left wingman is orienting formation based not only with the lead bird, but with the alignment between left wingman / lead / right wingman; while the right wingman is orienting along the same axis in the reverse direction, then the reaction-lag effect could cause the total formation to rotate in the opposite direction (CW) as the lead bird's CCW spiral.

    Wow, I've just solved the 500-yr old Geese Rotating Vee problem, previously thought to be unsolvable, in less than 10 minutes!

    Film it Bobal, and send it to the Discovery Channel!