COLLECTIVE MADNESS


“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."

Thursday, November 12, 2009

US Envoy to Afghanistan Urges No More Troops. Say what?

Whoa baby, what is going on in Dodge? Is this Karl Elkenberry some defeatist pinko? Let's look at the dossier:

Education

Eikenberry graduated from Goldsboro High School in Goldsboro, North Carolina in 1969 and then studied as an undergraduate at West Point, where he graduated in 1973. In August 2007 he returned to Goldsboro to receive the key to the city from the mayor. (Sounds good so far)

He received an M.A. in East Asian Studies from Harvard, where he would later return as National Security Fellow at the John F. Kennedy School of Government, and an M.A. in political science from Stanford, where he was also a Ph.D candidate. In addition, Eikenberry has studied in Hong Kong at the UK Ministry of Defence Chinese Language School, earning the Foreign Office's Interpreter’s Certificate for Mandarin Chinese, and Nanjing University, earning an advanced degree in Chinese History. (Geez, a US Ambassador with some qualifications for a change.)

Military Career

Eikenberry served two tours of duty in the war in Afghanistan. ( The boy is no theoretical academic) His first tour in Afghanistan was from September 2002- September 2003. During this time he filled two positions; his primary duty was as the United States Security Coordinator for Afghanistan and the second position was the Chief of the Office of Military Cooperation-Afghanistan (OMC-A). As the Security Coordinator he worked closely with UNSG Special Representative Lakhdar Brahimi to forge a unified international effort to build a cohesive security sector. This Security Sector Reform (SSR) project included building the Afghan National Army (U.S.), reforming the Afghan Police (Germany), Counter-Narcotics (U.K.), Judicial reform (Italy), and Disarmament, Demobilization, and Reintegration of the militias (Japan and U.N.). In his role as Chief of the OMC-A he was the chief architect of the strategy that built and fielded the first Afghan Army Corps. During his second tour he was Commander of the Combined Forces Command for 18 months, leaving in 2007 to become the Deputy Chairman of the NATO Military Committee. (I think he may have a better grasp than even Glenn Beck)

Ambassador

On January 29, 2009, The New York Times reported that President Barack Obama had chosen Eikenberry to be the next U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan, replacing William Braucher Wood. The choice of a career army officer for the sensitive post was described by The Times as "highly unusual". On April 3, 2009, the Senate confirmed Eikenberry's nomination, and on April 29, 2009, he was sworn in as the U.S. Ambassador to Afghanistan.

(Gen. Eikenberry told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that the United States and its international partners must redouble efforts to reverse Taliban gains in the embattled south and east of the country as well as deal with the booming drug trade that fuels them. He also promised more support to the Afghan national army and police.

"The way ahead is clear but the resources to date have, regrettably, been insufficient," he said.

Speaking hours before the Obama administration is set to unveil a new strategy for the war that will deal with Afghanistan and Pakistan, Gen. Eikenberry said it was "unclear" whether Pakistan's intelligence service has dropped support for the Taliban in Afghanistan.

"We can succeed in Afghanistan, it's true, but if we don't address the problem, the linked problems in Pakistan, then we'll have no lasting success," he told the panel.)


The official announcement of his nomination was made on March 11. Following his confirmation as ambassador, he retired from the U.S. military with the rank of Lieutenant General on April 28, 2009. Eikenberry has been allowed to bring his family and wife, Ching Eikenberry, to live with him in Kabul. (Wikipedia and other news sources)



OK, that was then, now what is going on today?

Envoy urges no US troop increaseBBC



The US ambassador in Kabul has written to the White House arguing against sending thousands more American troops to Afghanistan.

In a leaked cable, Karl Eikenberry expressed doubts about the competence of President Hamid Karzai's government.

The message arrived amid intense debate over strategy, with President Obama yet to make a decision on troop numbers.

This dramatic intervention seems to put the envoy at odds with generals wanting reinforcements, correspondents say.

On Wednesday, Mr Obama he held his eighth meeting in a series aimed at refocusing Afghan policy.
Mr Eikenberry, a former US commander in Afghanistan, also raised concerns about corruption within the Afghan government.

He said it was "not a good idea" to send more troops, the BBC has been told.

The cable arrived days before Mr Obama held a crucial strategy session - to discuss the question of whether to send tens of thousands more troops to confront and push back the Taliban.

The cable appears to be a dramatic and last-minute intervention by the ambassador, BBC Washington correspondent Adam Brookes reports.

It comes right at the end of weeks of White House deliberation over how to proceed in Afghanistan, and appears to put the ambassador at odds with the US army, whose generals favour reinforcing and intensifying America's campaign in Afghanistan.

Military commander 'fuming'

The top US military commander in Afghanistan, Gen Stanley McChrystal, has asked for at least 40,000 more US troops.

Barack Obama has held eight meetings with his security advisors.

The US currently has some 68,000 troops in Afghanistan, contributing to a coalition force of more than 100,000.
Gen McChrystal was "fuming" about Mr Eikenberry's intervention, sources said.

At Wednesday's meeting, White House officials said Mr Obama discussed timeframes for four options presented at the meeting but took no decisions on them.

The president said the US commitment should not be open-ended and governance there must improve, they added.

Among the key outstanding issues is said to be the reliability of the government of President Karzai, who was recently declared the winner of a widely criticised election.

Critics have said the decision on Afghanistan is taking too long, while Mr Obama has said he does not want to rush a decision that involves putting troops at risk.




By the way, what was our guy, Karzai, actually saying to the Afghanis during the election? "He knows the Taliban", so he says.


132 comments:

  1. Poor Barack, now he has a "community of two" to organize, his ambassador and his main man Crystal carrying the big stick.

    He needs to get away on that that big 747, needs to think, have a cigarette, those new American Spirits, a yellow pack, no chemicals, some good, real fine, fine-fine, Central American rum, the good shit baby, nothing under 23 years, preferably with a picture of el Fago Baka on the label. Feel good.

    What's a POTUS to do?

    Give old George a call. Say howdy. "How's it going Barackie?"

    "Been there done than Barack, call anytime."

    ReplyDelete
  2. Big Man on Campus

    Wonder if this chickenshit mofo has to take any remedial classes?
    Hope she sues the shit out of him.

    "The punch was so loud, the kitchen workers in the back heard it over all the noise," bar back Richie Velez, 28, told The Post. "I was on my way over when he punched Camille and she fell on top of me."


    Mr responsibility:

    "It was a very unfortunate event," he said afterwards. "I didn't mean for it to explode the way it did."

    I am not responsible: "It" is.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Obama is so in over his head.
    He has no idea on what to do.
    He is near panic mode about making a decision. He has never administered anything in his life.

    His deep experience was teaching law classes at a university. In that role, he could prepare at his leisure and in front of a captive audience, dazzle for 45 minutes, pick up his notes and leave. His big decision of the day would be where and what to have for dinner.

    He got real good at reading a speech.

    Blacks, who never voted, students, who hardly voted, white liberals with a tear in their eye, deemed him qualified to be POTUS. The voted him to be their leader. A leader that never led,

    The man is living a life of fear.

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  4. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  5. None dare call it dithering.
    Except Cheney.

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  6. We've been negotiating with Japan on a redeployment scheme in Okinawa.
    Now the new Govt wants to start over, no doubt spurred on by the fact that dealing with BHO is like stealing candy from a baby.

    ReplyDelete
  7. "We've been negotiating with Japan on a redeployment scheme in Okinawa - FOR TEN YEARS!"

    ReplyDelete
  8. To hell with politics, and war.


    O Melody

    Tho oathed and married thou surely be
    Imagination doth set me free
    To Empyrean worlds where I do see
    Consumations singular of he and she

    Such dread and barren contradictions
    I strive to banish by written dictions
    To realize such pregnant fictions
    I purchase heavenly subscriptions

    To crystalline beds beyond descriptions

    A knight erect rides towards the forest
    Minded to o’ercome this sore test
    A knight oneminded upon his quest
    To capture thee as bedded guest

    Thou art so youthful, fancied, fair
    There is no choice but so to dare
    My hand outreaches, to stroke thy hair
    This my gesture to repel despair

    If I should fail, I shall not rise
    Find thee this as no surprise
    Your knight errant shall not disguise
    His brave, devoted, lone demise

    ReplyDelete
  9. Unlike Bill or Ted, BHO roams around with tyrants rather than babes.
    Kissing some Burmese Ass on this trip, not to mention the Chi-Coms, and... and...

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  10. Unless we develop a comprehensive South Asia strategy, the most we can hope for is a temporary peace in Afghanistan.

    What would such a strategy look like? Well, at the very least it requires some moderation of the strategic competition between India and Pakistan.

    Without attention to this aspect of the problem, we really are only playing around at the edges of the conflict.

    For more, see here

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  11. ...Pakistan has indulged this fantasy for too long. Encouraged by both China and the West during the Cold War to aim for strategic balance with India, primed by deadly infusions of military aid, Pakistan has striven for a relationship with India that is, in reality, beyond it. And it is time it was bought to this realisation by its patrons in Washington and Beijing. Islamabad prides itself on its ability to sustain the conflict, fancying itself as something of a practitioner of the art of realpolitik. It needs to understand that aiming for strategic parity with India is not realpolitik, it is fantasy politics and the only antidote to it is a heavy dose of realism. Without it, without some semblance of a comprehensive regional strategy, without mechanisms to moderate the security competition between India and Pakistan, without a resolution of Kashmir, at most we are busy constructing a temporary peace in Afghanistan. from Scott's link.

    It is hard to quibble with that. Can't recall that argument having been made.

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  12. Pakistan does deploy a lot of troops on the Indian border that could better be used to pacify the western tribal areas.

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  13. Obama will likely lose this war for us- he clearly lacks the judgement, dedication, and principle to win such a labrilynthine conflict.

    He already was caught dozing while the Russians nabbed the Kyrgizstani air base SO vital to any plans for a US "surge" strategy in Afghanistan. -

    The clueless Obama (and foreign-policy "expert" Biden) were the most vocal opponents of the Petraeus Surge strategy in Iraq, with Slow Joe coming-up with a harebrained plan to surrender and split the country 3-ways. If America had followed their advice then, Iraq would be an Al Qaida Caliphate by now.

    Of course, the media is too preoccupied with articles on the Dear Leader's puppy-vetting process and how he likes to play basketball to call him on these serious strategic errors... reality starting to hit hard now, though-

    http://reaganiterepublicanresistance.blogspot.com

    ReplyDelete
  14. ...and the beat goes on...

    Military Doctors Worried Hasan Was 'Psychotic,' Capable of Killing Fellow Soldiers

    "Another official "wondered aloud" to colleagues whether Hasan might be capable of killing fellow soldiers..."

    "One official who participated in the discussions reportedly told others he was worried that if Hasan was deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, he might leak covert military information to Islamic extremists..."

    "Officials considered kicking Hasan out of the program but chose not to partly because firing a doctor is a "cumbersome and lengthy" process that involves hearings and potential legal conflict..."

    ..."were concerned they could be accused of discriminating against him because of his Islamic identity or views."

    Again - "...were concerned they could be accused of discriminating against him because of his Islamic identity or views."

    And again - "...were concerned they could be accused of discriminating against him because of his Islamic identity or views."

    At last, we are starting to finally get to the root cause of the SYSTEMIC psychosis that permitted this crime. Unless and until we are willing to admit that these folks are UNLIKE us and take necessary precautions, we are doomed to repetitions of Fort Hood et al.

    As earlier written, Major Hasan had a consequential, predictive record. The powers that be knew he was untrustworthy and hostile. They closed their eyes to the obvious as the matter of professional self-preservation.

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  15. So how to resolve it? Well, at a minimum, Pakistan will have to stop stoking separatist sentiment among India’s restive Muslim population. For its part, India must undertake to respect the integrity of the Pakistani state and end its policy of interference in the tribal areas. Beyond this, a mix of security guarantees, non-aggression pacts, and some resolution of Kashmir will obviously have to feature in any settlement, but ultimately, and quite apart from the development challenge, Pakistan must simply be persuaded to abandon its futile attempt to gain strategic parity with India and to accept its natural place in the emerging regional order. The challenge is as simple, and complicated, as that. As the dominant regional power, the most natural solution is for the string of states along India’s northern frontier to accept Indian leadership in return for a mix of security guarantees, non-interference and non-aggression pacts. In effect, for India to exercise a benign regional hegemony. Bangladesh and Nepal seem happy with, or at the least reconciled to, this sort of arrangement, each acquiescing in what most analysts regard as the natural regional order. Similarly the states along the Southern rim - Sri Lanka and The Maldives - are not challenging for regional status. The high politics of the region remain narrowly bipolar, with only Pakistan standing apart from the developing regional consensus.

    This has to end. Pakistan has indulged this fantasy for too long. Encouraged by both China and the West during the Cold War to aim for strategic balance with India, primed by deadly infusions of military aid, Pakistan has striven for a relationship with India that is, in reality, beyond it. And it is time it was bought to this realisation by its patrons in Washington and Beijing. Islamabad prides itself on its ability to sustain the conflict, fancying itself as something of a practitioner of the art of realpolitik. It needs to understand that aiming for strategic parity with India is not realpolitik, it is fantasy politics and the only antidote to it is a heavy dose of realism. Without it, without some semblance of a comprehensive regional strategy, without mechanisms to moderate the security competition between India and Pakistan, without a resolution of Kashmir, at most we are busy constructing a temporary peace in Afghanistan.

    - Scott's link above

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  16. But isn't Pakistan driven by the same Muslim fantasy that has not demonstrated an acceptance of the need for reformation anywhere?

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  17. "At last, we are starting to finally get to the root cause of the SYSTEMIC psychosis that permitted this crime. Unless and until we are willing to admit that these folks are UNLIKE us and take necessary precautions, we are doomed to repetitions of Fort Hood et al."
    ---
    Fantasize all you want, Allen.
    We Abrahamics are all the same.
    We be F.....

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  18. We should become

    The Rooster's Bar:

    ...where the chickens come home.

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  19. Impatience Over U.S. Base in Okinawa

    With plans to move the base proceeding slowly, the issue will be prominent as President Obama visits Japan. Above, a protest against the base on Sunday in Okinawa.

    Japan Cools to America as It Prepares for Obama Visit

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  20. And no one is talking about Iran or North Korea...

    wow...

    talk about mirrors and smoke...

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  21. I'm sure glad we got these "smart" Democrats with their "smart" diplomacy in the White House.

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  22. Scott has introduced a welcome, germane, additional element into our conversation. I hope he continues to do so - a possibility if some can refrain from isolating, ad hominem refrains.

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  23. In March, Obama declared Afganistan a war of "necessity" and a must win for the US.

    At the end of April,

    (Gen. Eikenberry told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that the United States and its international partners must redouble efforts to reverse Taliban gains in the embattled south and east of the country as well as deal with the booming drug trade that fuels them. He also promised more support to the Afghan national army and police.

    "The way ahead is clear but the resources to date have, regrettably, been insufficient," he said.


    Recently, Barack Hamlet Obama has had a difficult time deciding whether to send in troops as his generals suggest or to bow to his party and the polls and somehow pull out.

    Now, Eikenberry

    ...said it was "not a good idea" to send more troops, the BBC has been told.

    The cable arrived days before Mr Obama held a crucial strategy session - to discuss the question of whether to send tens of thousands more troops to confront and push back the Taliban.


    The question now becomes whether Eikenberry, an obviously intelligent and experienced guy, after spending years in Afganistan suddenly had an epiphany over the last six months or if he is merely a political hack providing political cover for a dithering president.

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  24. Barack-Baby wants out of there so bad he could cry. Probably does, late at night. If he was really smart he would realize the American people don't care what he does, as long as he does Something.

    A good, well-crafted speech in which he says, "Fuck it, we're coming home," and his polls would go up ten points.

    Or, a good speech in which he says, "I'm sending Eighty Thousand troops and we're going to kick some taliban ass," and his polls would go up five points.

    Poor, poor baby. Poor, poor libs. Dubya has got to be nailing Laura every night, and twice on Sundays.

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  25. doug,

    We are no more "Abrahamic" than we are "Zoromasters".

    While there are those who claim that Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have the same origin and are, thereby, identical, this is nonsense, as exposure to the practices of the three would quickly show.

    As I read somewhere yesterday, "Because a cat births in an oven does not make the kittens biscuits." As a corrolary, having the same mother does not make the kittens clones.

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  26. "We've been negotiating with Japan on a redeployment scheme in Okinawa - FOR TEN YEARS!"

    None dare call it dithering.


    Especially Cheney!

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  27. If you believe in the GOd of Abraham, you are an Abrahamic

    That's a fact.

    If you do not believe in the God of Abraham, you are not.

    That's a fact.

    Learn it, Live it, Love it!

    The God of Abraham is part of the Zoromastery myth.

    Mr Campbell didn't lie.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Blogger 2164th said...

    " Obama is so in over his head. He has no idea on what to do. He is near panic mode about making a decision."

    hmmm, are you sure you aren't projecting? I've seen no evidence of such claims. It sure is a tough decision he is faced with as confirmed by the radical changes of opinions expressed here at the bar over the matter. Look at all you hard core military folk previously keen on kicking butt all over the world now advocating cut and run.

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  29. Define, O Great One, the "God of Abraham".

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  30. The definition of God of Abraham, that is for the Sects of Abraham to battle over, as they have for 3,000 years.

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  31. We call it "wrap it up," Ash. :)

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  32. "Mr Campbell didn't lie."

    And now it is clear. The Rat is a Cambellist.

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  33. The Ambassador does not want to further support the illegitimate Government that we established in Afghanistan.

    He can see that there is no future, in that course.

    As was seen by JFK in Mr Diem, in the "Nam, so many decades ago.

    So, now we have an ex-General speaking truth to power, instead of a young diplomat, as was profiled a few threads ago.

    Interesting.

    We still may end up with Obama as LBJ, if Obama is not as clever as his supporters believe and his romps with the Clinton machine and the GOP would indicate that he is.

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  34. Have been for years, it is our State Religion.

    Propagated on State television.

    All real Americans believe the power of myth, in their hearts.

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  35. We couldn't "win" in Vietnam because we were fighting them in the wrong location. Their "Center of Balance" was Hanoi, and we were fighting (for lack of a better word) them in a peripheral location, S. Vietnam.

    It probably cost the U.S. $100.00/day to keep me in the fight, and it probably cost N. Vietnam less than a half dollar/day to keep "Charlie" in action.

    We didn't have the nerve to attack the enemy in his "Center," so we lost. Same thing in Afghanistan. The enemies "center" is in Pakistan. We don't take Islamabad, we can't win. NOBODY wants to "take Islamabad." We can't win.

    This is going to end like Vietnam. Either, "Today," or "Tomorrow," or "next year." My assertion is, "If it's going to end badly, let's do it now; and get it out of the way."

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  36. We could maintain public support and confidence by raiding into Pakistan, but the US military does not raid, it seizes and occupies, fighting the last war, still.

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  37. "We still may end up with Obama as LBJ, if Obama is not as clever as his supporters believe and his romps with the Clinton machine and the GOP would indicate that he is.

    I doubt many people would suggest that the Big O is not "clever". Some might even say he is too clever by half.

    Presidential? Another question entirely.

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  38. Yeah, we could put another 100,000 troops in there, block off the mountain passes, put in another four or five hundred drones, etc. etc., and keep it on a "slow boil" for a long time.

    Eventually, though, a "Republican" President will take office, and the Anti-War Demonstrations will start. There will be nothing to do, but "turn it over to the Afghans," and try to get all our troops the hell out "before she blows."

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  39. People don't understand. It's not just "more troops." It's a HELL OF A LOT More "Equipment." Those MWRAPS are Expensive, and we probably need another Thousand of those. We need another four, or five hundred helicopters, and another 100 "fast movers." A Lot more Artillery.

    The "Informative" story was the truck sitting on the side of the road for 12 Freakin' Hours. That's amateur hour, kiddos. That's playing "cowboys, and Indians."

    You can't "fight a war," that way.

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  40. You know nothing and can offer nothing other than the bile of your own inner demons and their hatreds.

    From last week's parshat (something with which you are, no doubt, intimately familiar) we learned a great deal about "the God of Abraham". For example, this G-d intervenes in the world of man when the Zeitgeist becomes "unhinged", as was the case with Sodom. Moreover, we learned of the two attributes most respected by this Being: justice and right, as in, "For I have singled him (Abraham) out, that he may instruct his children and his posterity to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is just and right."

    Israel was to be "a nation of priests" Our failure/refusal to wear that mantle has been the cause of our sorrows. We have the free will to accept our lot. But our failure is not the failure of our G-d. No, our G-d has told us, "draw nigh to me and I will draw nigh to you".

    Are we Jews "chosen"? Yes, as an object lesson, with the end that no matter how lacking in virtue we may be our G-d will keep his promise to Abraham of perpetual offspring, who will, despite themselves, be a blessing to the world.

    There are hundreds of Christian sects and denominations. No two understand or define G-d in the same way; otherwise, there would be a "catholic" Christian faith.

    Islam is fractured by sectarianism.

    You cannot define the "God of Abraham" anymore than I. The difference being, I do not disparage that which I do not understand; and I have the sanity to know that I cannot hope to know the "God of Abraham".

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  41. By the way, in Vietnam we used a piece of equipment that dates back somewhere around 12,000 years.

    We called it a "Chain."

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  42. I said before that the WH decision depended on political outcomes in Afghanistan, along with the determination of whether we could or could not - and should or should not - fold the government into any new strategy. COIN relies to a great extent on (multifaceted) institution-building. One can sometimes toward this end find and develop local workarounds of a rotten government. One sometimes can't.

    This government has had seven years on our largely disinterested watch to build, reward, and enforce its pernicious networks.

    Eikenberry's obviously a very, very smart guy and as Ambassador, working directly for the president and not for State, has enormous input.

    One senior officer (not US) just back from Afghanistan said that the Taliban is *less* corrupt than the government. And the Afghans, of course, know it.

    Eikenberry may very well be remarking a lost cause, at least in the direction of a more troop-intensive counterinsurgency.

    Windows open. Windows close. He may have concluded to his own satisfaction, and be pressing upon others, that the surge window has closed.

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  43. I am sympathetic to the President’s “dithering” on Afghanistan. By now, he has discovered that he is served by the same PC “leadership” that could not keep an Islamic functionary O3 from being advanced to the rank of Major, followed by mass murder at Fort Hood.

    To the president I recommend the career of General of the Armies of the United States, Omar Bradley, who fired over a dozen general officers during WWII.

    “A job not worth doing is not worth doing well.”

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  44. "Poor, poor baby. Poor, poor libs. Dubya has got to be nailing Laura every night, and twice on Sundays."
    ---
    Good that he traded booze for
    "religion"

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  45. Well, I think we know, now, what he's going to do. The only thing of interest is: How will he do it?

    Watch, the party of stupid will hammer him, and he'll go UP five, or ten points in the polls.

    Americans ain't "roket scientists," but they know a spavined, broken-down horse when they see one. And, Afghanistan is, definitely, glue-factory material.

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  46. "Our findings suggest that telomere length and variants of telomerase genes combine to help people live very long lives, perhaps by protecting them from the diseases of old age," Suh said. "We're now trying to understand the mechanism by which these genetic variants of telomerase maintain telomere length in centenarians. Ultimately, it may be possible to develop drugs that mimic the telomerase that our centenarians have been blessed with."
    ---
    So Fucking Larry Fucking King has long Fucking Telomeres!
    There ain't no justice for us Gentiles!

    (Telomeres are one of the few things I remember from my collegiate Biological Sciences encounter)

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  47. GDP estimates aren't making Any sense. Diesel demand is down 13.8% from this time last year. And, we were in serious recession, then.

    EIA Weekly Data

    Even gasoline demand is down 1.0%.

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  48. I never worried so much about having a long "telewhatever."

    The girls "I" dated were more interested in somethin else.

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  49. why would they worry...




    ....unless there was a problem :)

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  50. The difference between Judaism, which does not require non-Jews to convert in order to be ’saved’ and Christianity which does, but doesn’t do it by the sword and Islam-ism, which will kill non-Muslims is the belief in the Seven Laws of Noah
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah.

    if we don’t submit to voldemort [Islam-ism] and bow down [convert or admit our 'dirtiness'], we are fair game.

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  51. To say that Christians did not advance Christianity by the sword, well, that is to deny the historical record of the Americas.

    It also requires us to deny the historical record in Africa.

    To say that the Christians have not advanced Christianity, in the last 50 years, by the sword.
    That could well be the case. But the "Christian" nations did place Isreal in the midst of the Islamics.

    Causing a conflict to simmer on, there, ever since.

    To blame the Islamics for that, nonsensical.

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  52. They said the only thing "long, and hard" on Rufus wuz the 3rd grade. :)

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  53. the Rat states:
    But the "Christian" nations did place Isreal in the midst of the Islamics.
    Causing a conflict to simmer on, there, ever since.
    To blame the Islamics for that, nonsensical.


    The above statement is a perfect example of learning history on the back of a matchbook.

    What the Rat doesnt understand is everything...

    To tear apart his fiction is a complete waste of time and effort, it's done numerous times and Rat is incapable of learning...

    To Rat, Israel has no right to be... PERIOD and he will lie, distort and fabricate anything to further that opinion.

    Regardless of the historic connection to the land, regardless of jews living on the land for 3000 years, regardless of the League of Nations, the UN, the expulsion from the arab occupied lands of 650,000 jews TO israel, regardless of islam's occupation of middle eastern lands, regardless of the fact that MOST nations in the middle east all have been formed by the UN and are less than 60 years old..

    Nothing matters to the Rat...

    To him? Israel is an illegal zionist entity...

    PERIOD...

    Rat seems the earth flat and there is no convincing him otherwise...

    Rat has an amazing insight to Israel, it's amazing since he has never been there...

    Rat's does a great job is repeating the party line of the PLO & the Stormfront...

    His focus on all things Jewish is nothing short of clinical....

    I do suggest that Rat is really a closet Jew lover and somewhere in his past he must have been turned down when seeking to join our secret society..

    It must be the secret handshake....

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  54. WiO,

    "The secret handshake"

    Isn't that spatial? You were NEVER to mention that to anyone outside the tribe. Now, I will have to report you to the Elders, if they haven't already monitored your faux pas.

    Prepare to have settlers squatting on your lawn. And only G-d knows how Mossad will react.

    What a mess, WiO!

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  55. Oh shit...

    Two of the most beautiful gals just knocked on my office door and of course I let them in...

    What a mistake... They had me tied to a chair and started to whip me with the "Made in Israel" under garments...

    They keep screaming "secret handshake" I'll show you a secret handshake and that's when the real torture began...

    There I was tied to a chair and these two gals, topless and beating me with their bra's stopped and pull out?

    You guessed it...

    Reall NYC bagels with lox and cream cheese, then they sat there in front of me, half nekked as the day EATTING poppy seed bagels with lox and a schmear...

    Then they left...

    I got no boobies, I got no bagels, all that remained was some seed on the floor...

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  56. I got no boobies, I got no bagels, all that remained was some seed on the floor...

    Thu Nov 12, 02:47:00 PM EST

    Sorry. *That* was funny.

    ReplyDelete
  57. ...now, to today's most sensational issue...that's right

    labioplasty

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  58. "GDP estimates aren't making Any sense. Diesel demand is down 13.8% from this time last year."
    ---
    All the "growth" is artificial government induced activity.
    Real productive growth ain't happening.
    Same with Wall St:
    Related to stuff like the falling dollar and transfer of wealth from us to them.

    ReplyDelete
  59. "They also suggested that any pain apparently caused by protrusion may well have a psychological root - noting that male genitalia protrude far further without causing major discomfort. "
    ---
    Sharp Gravel is no a walk in the park.

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  60. Naval Academy Changed Color Guard to Appear More Diverse at World Series

    One was a "Pakistani-American" - whatever that is.

    "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life."

    5/5...hmm
    ___Theodore Roosevelt

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  61. In war, uncertainty gets you killed. It just did.

    well written, but unlikely...Only catastrophe on a monumental scale seems capable of bringing "Americans" to their collective senses. 9/11 was insufficient.

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  62. There's nothing better then waking up to a multitude of serenades.

    But let's step this up a beat

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  63. Knight1:
    AP just reported the Feds moving to seize four mosques in the U.S. with linkages to Iran –
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091112/ap_on_re_us/us_mosque_forfeiture

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  64. On Hasan's official Army personnel record, obtained by ABCNews.com., Hasan lists his e-mail address using the first name of Abduwall, instead of Nidal. Abduwalli, in Arabic, means "slave of" the great protector, or God.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Doug means
    Top Stud
    in Douglish

    ReplyDelete
  66. Hmm...Bob went to Five Guys for the day, huh? I wonder if he took a cold shower before he left.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Does anyone know how to sell something and NOT have the public know who you are?

    ReplyDelete
  68. Sure.
    A Nevada Corporation is all it takes.

    ReplyDelete
  69. “That’s when the bystanders were pointing in his direction,” he said. “And when we popped up, he was standing there, and we shouted our commands — ‘Police, drop your weapons!’ — and he just opened fire on us.”

    Sergeant Todd said he was slightly in front of Sergeant Munley on the hill. “Once we took fire, she broke right and I broke left,” he said.

    Sergeant Todd said he did not see Sergeant Munley get shot. He said he started to circle around the building, but then backtracked as panicked bystanders told him of the gunman’s movements.

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  70. Wouldn't it be wiser in a case like this to shoot to wound w/o warning?

    ...course they'd lose their jobs.

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  71. Doug,

    The shooter, as a combatant/non-combat/soldier/civilian, may not be shot without due protocol...even potential mass murders have to have their rights protected; otherwise, what would become of our diversity, our hypenated selves...Only a judge should be allowed to determine the forfeiture of life...Who are we to judge...There's no business like show business...I think I had sex today - but I forget...Where was I...For that matter, who am I...I'm a little teapot...Unless we have walked a mile in his sandals, who are we to blame Major Hasan for misbegotten Abrahamism...And speaking of Sally Field

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  72. Bob misread the map, the nearest 5 Guys is in Missoula, didn't take the wife long to figure that out.

    Bob went to Moscow to hire a lawyer to put down some unruly tenants, which seemed to be beyond my capacity to do, the first time this has happened.

    From Mat--

    Amazing Pictures of Pollution in China

    Campbell was against the literal understandings of the Judeo/Christian tradition. I believe he thought of them as being more or less the same, due to the commonality of images, etc. He hardly ever mentioned islam, I'm sure he couldn't abide it.

    He didn't really have it in for Christianity or Judaism. After all he thought the whole myth was there in a moment in the story of the Transfiguration, for instance.

    If he really stood up for anything I think it was for the idea of the individual in the west, which he saw lacking elsewhere, particularily in the far east, and India, and he was for a scciety making sane, rational decisions, nationally and internationally, based on mutual benefit, and an individual doing the same, in worldly affairs.

    He thought that if nothing else unites the world, trade and the ecology crisis sooner or later will, if we don't blow ourselves up first.

    I think it can be said, as mentioned somewhere above, that the nations of Europe did push Jewish people back into Israel. But it was through pogroms, exterminations, etc. Faced with that who the hell wouldn't want to leave?

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  73. Today we had another student fall out of the third floor window of a fraternity. This is the fourth, this fall. This one was at WSU.

    Still have about six months to go in the school year. We are likely to set a record, this year.

    Guy was taking a piss out the window, and he sorta flowed with the stream, so to speak.

    He was lucky, landed on the windshield of as SUV, sort of breaking his fall.

    One poor girl at Idaho had some real injuries, and is still hospitalized in Spokane.

    Mu suggestion is to put trampolines, or circus nets around the buildings.

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  74. Good for the update, Allen the Abrahammock.
    Carry on.
    As will I.
    Allah Willing.
    PBUH

    ReplyDelete
  75. "One poor girl at Idaho had some real injuries, and is still hospitalized in Spokane."

    ...I'm bettin the Pisser has some real injuries too!

    ReplyDelete
  76. I mean most of us have fallen face first into our own stream, but seldom from three stories.

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  77. bob,

    Re: Campbell

    I hate to disagree, but Christianity and Judaism have had no doctrinal common ground since before the fall of the Temple in 70CE.

    Judaism can accept as a messiah (anointed one) all manner of people, including non-Jews, e.g. Cyrus the Great is referenced in just this context. What Judaism cannot accept is the deification of a human. On that point, among scores more, the lines of separation were drawn.

    You might ask, then, what led to the large numbers of interfaith marriages in Western Europe between the years 100-at least 600CE, when Jews may have comprised up to 15% of the population. The Germanic tribes, when converted to Christianity, generally accepted the Arian doctrines of Christianity. These did not deify Jesus and make demi-gods of others. Constantine the Great personally held the Arian view (just as his two immediate successors), but allied himself with the Roman and some Greek bishops because of expediency and the need for a literate bureaucracy. He also hoped to nip the makings of civil war in the bud.

    If Campbell believed in some convergence, it was probably based upon the Christian and Jewish use of some textual material. However, as he should have known, the perspectives of both faiths were entirely different when it came to the use and interpretation of the common texts. Indeed, as any casual observer will find, the translations of the Jewish texts conform almost perfectly with the oldest extant Jewish literature (200-300BCE), while there are great and material errors and omissions within the Christian translations of Jewish cannon.

    But, speaking of Sally Field…

    ReplyDelete
  78. Speaking of Sally Fields, is Burt around?

    They've both gotten quite old.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Doctrinally I know you're right. I'm thinking about some of the common images he mentions, for instance, Jerusalem as the Center of the World, or Jerusalem as the World Mountain, Eden, the sea as chaos, creation, that kind of thing.

    ReplyDelete
  80. bob,

    sorry

    I should have written:

    "as any casual observer will find, transcriptions of the Jewish texts conform almost perfectly with the oldest extant Jewish literature (200-300BCE)"

    ReplyDelete
  81. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  82. It was mid-evening, autumn of 1996, and I was driving three children up Watson Blvd (headed to, I believe it was, The Mall!). During a break in the lively conversation Daniel, an eight year-old, asked aloud of no one in particular, and completely out of the blue, "Do you ever wonder why you're here?"

    This song was actually playing:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDY2I5pni90&feature=related



    Whoever said Journey sucks?

    ReplyDelete
  83. I know it's not their doctrine, but as a practical matter, the muslims have nearly deified Mohammed.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Dodd Trails Simmons by 11

    I hope Dodd finally gets the boot.

    As of today, it looks as if Vaughn Ward will be our candidate to take on Walt Minnick, the other main contender having dropped out due to health reasons.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Allen: Judaism can accept as a messiah (anointed one) all manner of people, including non-Jews, e.g. Cyrus the Great is referenced in just this context.

    Annointed just means a person designated as king, they poured oil on his haid. Don't mean they thought Cyrus was the King of Kings.

    ReplyDelete
  86. bob,

    Campbell may have been influenced by Jung, who posited that human beings and human cultures see the world archetypically from a collective unconscious (My faith in the adequacy of this hypothesis is admittedly limited).

    As to Jerusalem, you have hit upon one of the key matters of dispute. Many African and Asian bishops tended to view Jerusalem as the center of the faith. And while the bishops of Rome and Greece agreed in the symbolic centrality of Jerusalem, they saw Rome and eventually Constantinople as the physical centers of the faith. Recall, at this time Jerusalem was, to put it kindly, a deconstructed, desiccated ruin. Succinctly, the location of the hub of faith was a political matter - this how Constantine himself saw the issue. And although Constantine had no objection to spending fortunes on luxuriating in the wine and baths of Trier, he had no like affection for Jerusalem.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Three shots of Bailey's in a tumbler, topped off by vanilla egg nog. I'm feeling it.

    ReplyDelete
  88. T wrote,

    "Don't mean they thought Cyrus was the King of Kings."

    Thank you for the clarification.

    ReplyDelete
  89. "Three shots of Bailey's in a tumbler, topped off by vanilla egg nog."

    MmmmmmmmIdunno. That sounds disgusting.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Doug said: Obama Administration Intends to Purge Republicans From the Civil Service

    I wonder if he'll fire Bob Barr voters like me too.

    ReplyDelete
  91. BHO denies that America has seen a terrorist attack on her soil on his watch. Terrorist attack is unhelpful language. He prefers to say it was an unforeseen outbreak of violence.

    ReplyDelete
  92. THE NAVEL OF THE EARTH

    For both Eusebius and Jerusalem, change began with the Roman emperor Constantine, who had been a follower of Apollo before his apparent conversion to Christianity. The pagan world’s center, Delphi, was the seat of Apollo and had been considered the omphalos (or navel) of the world by the ancient Greeks and Romans.

    Constantine had been told by an Apollonian oracle that Christians were interfering with the oracle’s ability to foretell the future. Constantine interpreted this to signify that Christianity had replaced Delphi and its famed oracle. He decided that his new religion, now the official religion of the state, should establish a new center. The religious center would be Jerusalem, while Constantinople, to which Constantine transferred all the wealth of Delphi, would replace Rome as the administrative center. And Apollo’s statue from Delphi would grace Constantinople’s civic square.

    In the meantime Eusebius, who in a flush of newfound messianic zeal had come to believe that the advent of a Christian emperor heralded the messianic age, discarded his previous views as shaped by the arguments of Origen. He now proclaimed that Constantine’s decision amounted to the building of the New Jerusalem, and he viewed the emperor’s directive to construct the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in the city as a validation of this understanding.

    This New Jerusalem, the new center or omphalos of the earth, was to be distinct from everything that Jerusalem had been before. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a universal religion that would supplant both paganism and Judaism. The new basilica was therefore to be built on the site of a pagan temple that had been erected on the orders of Hadrian but that was now to be purged of its past. All the soil and accumulations of two centuries were to be removed from the site and the underlying bedrock used as the foundation of the new building, the location of which the emperor declared to be Golgotha, the site of Christ’s crucifixion, based on his mother’s assertion to that effect.

    Constantine’s mother, Helena, and his mother-in-law, Eutropia, made pilgrimages to Jerusalem. Helena’s was unlike any later pilgrimage in that it really was no less than an imperial state visit in which the power of the emperor was clearly on display for all to see, with Helena acting as a regent for her son. Such a tour was an opportunity for the emperor, or in this case his dowager mother, to declare to the inhabitants of the empire how life should be seen from the emperor’s perspective. It was the chance for an emperor to shape his empire. Previous imperial tours had resulted in public works and pagan temples being built. Helena’s did likewise, except that for her, the locating of venues for all principal events surrounding the life of Christ became the order of the day. Such sites became locations for the building of churches and shrines, so that Jerusalem came to be a city of churches, chief among them the Church of the Holy Sepulcher.

    ReplyDelete
  93. I am a closet Air Supply listener.

    And, yes, I had that album.

    ReplyDelete
  94. The use of a pagan site for a basilica was a complete departure from Judaism and the religion of the Hebrew Scriptures, which still focused attention on the Temple Mount. That, however, according to the developing Roman church, was the Old Jerusalem. Like the decrees from the Council of Nicea, which forbade Christians from reckoning Easter according to the date of the annual Passover and established a new means of calculating important dates, Constantine’s aim in Jerusalem was to create a new concept of sacred places. And so the church, by the power of the emperor, can be said to have assumed control over both sacred time and space within the empire.

    One result of this new approach to Jerusalem was that Roman Christianity now felt a sense of power over Jews, which they exercised by continuing the earlier pagan ban on Jews entering Jerusalem. However, Christianity still owed something to its Jewish antecedents. After all, the church itself had arisen from among the Jewish people. In addition, the New Testament spoke of a heavenly temple, the description of which had formed the basis of the temple destroyed some 250 years earlier. This, Constantine felt, should also influence the design of the new basilica.

    What was more, the location of the pagan temple was such that it would be possible to establish a direct line of sight from inside the new basilica across the Temple Mount to the Mount of Olives, the point of Jesus Christ’s departure and of his prophesied return. (It should be noted that the present layout of the Holy Sepulcher is not that of the original building. Numerous earthquakes and wars over the centuries have led to considerable rebuilding.) In this way, the thinking went, the Church of the Holy Sepulcher could emulate the past relationship between the Holy Place in the temple and the Mount of Olives: the high priest at the temple could be signaled from the Mount of Olives that the scapegoat had been destroyed in the wilderness and that the sin offerings had been burned outside the city on the Day of Atonement. As Constantine saw it, the priesthood in this new building would take the place of the high priest in the Jewish temple; they would now be the priesthood of God.

    OLD AND NEW EMPHASES

    A basis for thinking of Jerusalem as the center or focal point of the world had been established centuries before the time of Constantine. The prophet Ezekiel had spoken of Israel, and by extension Jerusalem, as “the center of the earth” (Ezekiel 38:12, New American Standard Bible, New Revised Standard Version, and others) at a future time under the rule of the Messiah. In the Greek rendering of the Hebrew Scriptures, this was translated as omphalos. The first-century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, who wrote in Greek, referred to Jerusalem in the same manner (Wars of the Jews 3.3.5).

    Further, Jewish thinking propounded that the Temple Mount was the first part of God’s creation as well as the site of Adam’s creation. Such notions were complemented by Christian ideas that Adam had also been buried at Golgotha and hence lay interred beneath the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. Several centuries later, when Muslims laid claim to Jerusalem, they adopted similar ideas as to the importance of Jerusalem in the order of creation as part of their own justification for the religious significance of the site.


    article kind of chosen at random

    That kid Paco in Hemingway's story "The Capital of the World" seemed to think Madrid was the center of the earth. :)

    But, the center is everywhere, the circumference, nowhere.

    For Black Elk, it was, I think, Harney Peak (?) in South Dakota.

    ReplyDelete
  95. Going back to Veterans Day, I wish I could post a picture from today's newspaper, showing some Nez Perce in warrior regalia, war bonnets, painted ponies, celebrating.

    Tribe Turns Out To Honor Vets

    Nez Perce tribal members gather for annual tribute

    Lapwai, Id. - Some in traditional dress, others wearing their military uniforms, Nez Perce tribal members paraded down Lapwai's (land of butterflys) Main street Wednesday in honor of their veterans.

    Family members carried homemade signs to commemorate relatives who served overseas, and veterans packed the back of pickup trucks and trailors as spectators withstood cool rains to pay respects to the heroes.

    A riderless horse in honor of those killed in action was also part of the procession...the names of the fallen were read....

    "They all served with honor, dedication and commitment, and resolve that his country will remain free", said Wilfred Scott, Nez Perce Tribal Executive Member, and tribal elder.

    Four drum beats pounded as he read each name....

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  96. bob,

    Constantine was a consummate politician. His capitol bore his name and came to hold ecclesiastical authority second only to Rome. The See of Jerusalem took fifth place in the hierarchy. Constant political jockeying and the rise of Islam contributed to the Great Schism and the permanent fragmentation of Christianity.

    ReplyDelete
  97. The See of Jerusalem took fifth place in the hierarchy.

    But first place in mythology, is all I'm saying.

    ReplyDelete
  98. And the cause of all the troubles may be as simple as this:

    Finger Length Linked To Social Behavior?

    ReplyDelete
  99. Now you know everyone that read that article picked up their hand to look at their fingers?

    ReplyDelete
  100. bob,

    Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Koran. Mohammed seems to have taken as Allah's will the occupation of Jerusalem by Jew's.

    ReplyDelete
  101. MLD,

    Guys have to place them on a flat surface and squirm to get maximum length. Tomorrow, everyone will be bragging about the lengths of their upper digits.

    ReplyDelete
  102. US foreign policy continues to be an embarrassment. The inconsistency has to confuse the allies. And now...


    Amateur Night in Tequcigalpa

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  103. Thu Nov 12, 09:59:00 PM EST

    :)

    -----

    I read one time you can estimate the chances of Alzheimers from certain kinds of swirls on your fingertips. It was in an old psychology text one of my cousins had. I really don't know how much truth there is in it though. With all these genetic tests nowdays there must be a better way.

    Did Mother Teresa have six toes? And is it a sign of divinity?

    ReplyDelete
  104. Why doesn't Chuck Norris have Pubes?

    ReplyDelete
  105. Whether done by design or accident, that the US would come to this conclusion:

    ... remarks by Assistant Secretary of State Thomas A. Shannon Jr. last week that the U.S. government would recognize the election results irrespective of whether the ousted Honduran president was returned to office promptly. ...

    indicate that Team Obamamerica is on the right track, at last.

    ReplyDelete
  106. The woman have picked some fine music tonight.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Mine's much bigger than yours

    With that digit the use of a hankie is the matter of survival.

    ReplyDelete
  108. Jes bizness as usual.

    Shannon's comments on the elections coincided with an announcement by Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) that he would no longer block Shannon's nomination as ambassador to Brazil. DeMint said he made the decision after Shannon told him that the U.S. government would recognize the Nov. 29 Honduran election results whether or not Zelaya was back in the presidency.

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  109. I didn't understand a word that woman sang. Though it was good.

    ReplyDelete
  110. Gerusalemme รจ il centro del mondo

    Dante

    :)

    ReplyDelete
  111. He said it was "not a good idea" to send more troops, the BBC has been told.




    The most high-profile signal that the White House may be leaning against sending additional troops comes, ironically, from an administration figure who reportedly favors the troop increase: U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan Karl Eikenberry. In a series of classified diplomatic cables to the administration leaked to the press this week, Eikenberry evidently expressed serious reservations about the wisdom of sending troops before addressing corruption and incompetence in Afghanistan’s government.


    Exit Strategy


    Just as important as what has been achieved in Afghanistan is what may befall the country if the military strategy is not given a chance to succeed. In October, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned that if the Taliban were to retake control, “there is every reason to believe” that the country could relapse into its earlier role as a haven for al-Qaeda and other transnational jihadists.

    I don't think Hillary is going to be around much longer.

    This Eickenberry fellow doesn't seem to be totally against a troop buildup, wants to somehow clean up the corruption first. How do you do that?

    ReplyDelete