“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."

Saturday, November 21, 2009

My friend John Hull

I haven't seen John Hull or Rob Owen since 1984. We thought it best to part company at that time. Rob Owen had to burn through $1,000,000 to protect himself from the US Senate. I held my breath and lowered my profile. It worked.

I did have an amusing incident when I was invited to a party at the Vice President's House and met Dan Quayle. I knew Rob Owen worked for Quayle because one of the numbers I used to contact Owen was in the Indiana Senator's office. Several years later when introduced to the then Vice President I said we had a mutual friend in Rob Owen. VP Quayle smiled and asked as to how I knew Rob, and when I mentioned through John Hull, a concerned look rose across his face.

I chuckled and told him it was cool. John Hull was my friend and I knew what Hull did and did not do.

I had no idea John was still alive. I have posted several times about him and how he was railroaded by the "Liar of the Senate", John Kerry. Here is what he has been doing the last 25 years and here is a previous post I did on John Hull.


Don John: The Man, The Myth, The Legend

Photos by Sonny Brown and
Kristen K. Tucker Evansvilleliving

At his Yucatan ranch, John Hull talks to Kristen K. tucker about growing up in Southern Indiana, the Contra war, and a life spent aiding native Indians.

“Don John” is up to his old tricks.

It could also be said, and it would be true, he’s never stopped doing what he does.

We — editors of this magazine and most people in Evansville — just didn’t know.

For nearly 20 years, the name John Hull hasn’t been heard much around Evansville. But for the decade of the 1980s and into the 1990s, “Don John,” as the Gibson County farmer was called throughout Central America, dominated local news reporting and captured the interest of national news organizations, politicians, presidents, the native Indians of Costa Rica and Nicaragua, the FBI, and the CIA.

The man who for a decade regaled reporters and anyone who would listen about his wartime adventures was keeping a low profile.

Pam Martin, an executive at Growth Alliance for Greater Evansville, who in 1989 interviewed and reported on Hull for the Sunday Courier & Press, even speculated recently as she drove up U.S. Highway 41 past the Patoka exit (where the Hull family farm sits less than a quarter-mile off the highway) if Hull still was alive.

John Floyd Hull Jr., 88, is indeed alive and talking at his 1,200-acre ranch in a remote area of the Mexican state of Yucatan, in the municipality of Tizimin, where he and his wife of 20 years, Emelia, 42, raise 800 Brahman cattle and have demonstrated a commitment to improving the lives of the native Mayan people who inhabit that region.

Two Evansville residents, John Whinrey, an attorney at Frick Powell LLP, and Ron Huffman, a retired Whirlpool engineer, both members of the Rotary Club of Evansville, recently traveled to the Yucatan to visit with Hull and Emelia (“Emie”).

Soon after their visit, I received a phone call in my office on a Friday afternoon. The strong, clear, congenial voice on the phone said, “Mrs. Tucker, this is John Hull. I want to invite you down to my ranch in Mexico.”

John Hull is up to his old tricks. Those who know him — including his grandson Joe Bammer, who owns and operates GrassMasters Sod Farm on part of the Hull family property in Patoka — say that Hull is doing the same thing in Mexico that he began doing in Costa Rica 40 years ago: carving a ranch out of the jungle and working intently to improve the natives’ lives, chiefly through better medical care.

Martin is not surprised. “It sounds just like John Hull. He’ll have one cause after another — humanitarian. Whether it’s on the political fringes or by himself, he’s going to try to improve lives. It’s his brand of assistance. He’ll always be doing what helps people.”

I took Hull’s invitation to visit his ranch seriously and in early January extended a business trip to San Antonio, Texas, to fly to Cancun, Mexico, where Hull said he and Emie would pick me up. Because the Hulls were in El Salvador when they phoned, I had not been able to reach them again until I was in the airport.

“We’re so pleased you’re coming,” Hull said. “We’ll try not to get you kidnapped.”

A few days later I was greeted by Emie Hull in Cancun. Because my flight was a few hours late and people picking up arriving passengers must wait outside, Hull was resting in the leather-seated Chrysler van. I spotted Emie, a pretty Costa Rican woman with strong features and a bright smile, and we began the 100-mile drive through Cancun and into the interior to the Hull ranch. While the roads in this ancient area of Mexico have been improved in recent years, due largely to the tourism industry centering around Cancun and the ruins of Chichen Itza and Tulum, still the drive takes nearly three hours, giving us plenty of time to get acquainted as we stopped several times to see the beach, to eat, and to buy fruit, Mexican pastries, and tortillas.

Early Adventures

John Floyd Hull Jr. learned about adventure early in his life. He was born Oct. 20, 1920, in Princeton, Ind., the second of two sons. Both parents had college degrees; his mother taught school, and his father was a county agricul-tural extension agent.

Hull’s father was outspoken against the Ku Klux Klan and, as a result, had a hard time finding a job in Southern Indiana. But he was able to find a job in Dubois County, where John Jr. started school at age 4.

When Hull’s father landed a job as the Vanderburgh County extension agent, the family moved to 715 Washington Ave., and Hull attended Stanley Hall and Bosse High School before enrolling in Evansville College at the age of 17. Always popular, he told me he beat out Vance Hartke, who would later become a U.S. senator, for senior class president.

Hull studied at Evansville College before enrolling in the federal government’s civil pilot training program. He took pilot courses in Evansville and Indianapolis and was selected to take instructor and acrobatic courses.

In 1940, he joined his older brother, J.D., in California where he trained pilots for the U.S. Army Air Corps, the forerunner of the Air Force. There, Hull taught flying for a year before he was drafted by the Army for occupational duty in Germany. Demonstrating the willfulness and resourcefulness that define him, he persuaded the Army to release him and went to Canada to join the Royal Air Force. Hull says he wanted to fly planes instead of being stationed in Germany.

Soon he was flying B-24 bombers from Canada to India. He claims to have held the Guinness World Record for the fastest halfway-around-the-world flight in 1941.

At the expansive Yucatan ranch home he and Emie built six years ago, Hull displays on the walls framed photographs of the pilots he taught in California, a handsome photo of himself flying a B-24, and a framed newspaper clipping from the Evansville Courier Journal, dated Jan. 26, 1936, that featured his mother, Anna Clark Hull. In the story, on the occasion of the death of King George V of England, Hull’s mother recalled 25 years earlier when she was presented at the court of the king and Queen Mary.

Also on the wall of the ranch home is a widescreen high-definition television. A satellite dish, borrowed from their Gibson County property, receives programs broadcast from the U.S. While Emie manages the daily operations of the ranch and its employees — including cowboys, Portofirio and Ruben, and maid, Helda — Hull takes care of business from his recliner and watches Fox News. While his wit is wry and he is quick with a quip, Hull has Parkinson’s disease and a history of heart disease and isn’t as active as he was even at age 70, when, I learned that first night sitting at their dining room table, Hull and Emie fled Nicaragua (prompted by numerous threats on Hull’s life) on foot, climbing over a 4,000- foot mountain in the middle of the night.

Farming Paradise

About 1949, Hull’s father had left his job in Vanderburgh County to work for the Ford Foundation as a foreign agricultural specialist, which led the Hull family to consider making farming investments in other countries. Hull had become interested in the tropics earlier in the war when he flew bombers from Canada to Central America.

During the 1950s, Hull and his father flew to Central America in their own airplane with soil testing kits to test throughout Central America and into South America. They looked for a location with fertile, mineralized soil; a friendly, pro-American culture; and a stable government. They found that in Costa Rica.

In 1969, Hull was the first American rancher to take up residence in northern Costa Rica. At the peak of his farming operations there, Hull amassed a total of about 12,000 acres under management, nearly all of it in ranches bordering the San Juan River along the Nicaraguan border.

Over the years, Hull, and other Americans he persuaded to follow him to Costa Rica (like wealthy Henderson, Ky., farmer and former Army officer, the late George P. Whittington), tamed Costa Rica’s wild frontier, dotting it with cattle, lumber, and citrus industries. Hull became a Costa Rican citizen (today, he holds dual citizenship with the U.S.) and earned the titles of respect: “Don John” or “El Patron” among the locals.

In the Yucatan, Hull still is called “Don John.” At a recent party Emie hosted at the ranch for the schoolchildren of the tiny neighboring village of San Pilar, a little girl asked if she could kiss “Don John.”

“I’ve not had a woman ask to kiss me in 50 years,” Hull joked.

I had read newspaper accounts from the early 1980s suggesting Hull was the most powerful man in Costa Rica. “Was he?” I asked Emie.

“He was. He was a fantastic asset for North America,” Emie says. “John first got very well known for flying in medical supplies.”

Just as his father had an airstrip on their Gibson County property (Evansville residents may remember the sign, “Hull Airport,” along U.S. Highway 41), Hull established grass runways on many of his Costa Rican farms. When neighboring Nicaragua tipped into a full-scale civil war in 1978, Hull began assisting Costa Rican officials by flying in medical supplies and flying out the wounded.

“I’ve grown very fond of the Indians, in Costa Rica and Nicaragua and now here,” Hull says.

Warring in Nicaragua were the Sandinistas and the Contras. The Sandinistas had taken over a repressive regime in 1979, and within a few months, had made known their ties with Cuba and the Soviet Union and vowed to spread communism across Central America. The Contras were formed from dozens of anti-Sandinista battle groups that staged assaults on the new Nicaraguan government from enclaves deep in the eastern Nicaraguan jungle and from neighboring Honduras and Costa Rica, the area of Hull’s ranches.

“The Costa Rican (National) guard were as much against the communists as anyone; so were the El Salvadorans and the Hondurans,” says Hull. “Luckily, there was an awful lot of help from everywhere, especially over in our area — rural people are anti-communist. Your communist agitation comes from people in the big cities, and out there in the North where I was, and the valley rural area, the people donated rice to me and food that I could give to the Contras. The police offered to close any roads I wanted, where they were going to air drop that night. When everyone cooperated, we felt we were stopping the communist movement...”


  1. When I last saw him, John had a common-law wife named Margarita, who was his ex-maid. They had a couple of kids. I knew John lost everything in Costa Rica. Margarita must have done good. he had one hell of a farm.

  2. Wish I had time to read now.
    Will later, fer sure.
    Reid bill:
    16M uninsured U.S. citizens pay a penalty tax.
    8M uninsured illegal aliens do not.

    Under Leader Reid’s amendment, in the year 2019 about 16 million U.S. citizens would be uninsured and be forced to pay a penalty tax of almost $800 per year.

    About eight million illegal aliens would be uninsured and would owe no penalty tax. Both groups would get their health care through a combination of out-of-pocket spending and use of uncompensated care in emergency rooms and free health clinics.

  3. Did you photoshop John's head to lighten it, or does he carry a permanent halo around?

  4. Reid bill:
    16M uninsured U.S. citizens pay a penalty tax.
    8M uninsured illegal aliens do not.
    More proof of the keen insight and wisdom of 'Rat's contention that Mexicans will become more like us than vice-versa.

    More like we'll all become serfs, but some serfs,
    including Hispanics, will have special priviliges unavailable to "Xenophobic" Americans like us.
    Due punishment for our sinful status, I guess.

  5. Doug:

    Reid bill: 16M uninsured U.S. citizens pay a penalty tax. 8M uninsured illegal aliens do not.

    Health is grand. Not getting insurance is two grand.

  6. bob said...
    Rat, knock this misspelling of Israel off.

    It's disgusting, and, you are blowing your own brains out with your own argument, which don't amount to a pile of shit anyway.

    Grow up, can you not?

  7. heh, I love you, Melody, my deer.

  8. Bob said

    "And I recalled a Sioux woman, there in Fargo, North Dakota, that I had seen once. The best looking woman I have ever seen in my life"

    Thank God, I'm like 1% Native American.

  9. I really do not care what bob says, or said, with regards Isreal.

    If it was not working as desired, you would not make comment upon it.

    It serves it's purpose, well.

    I recall Mr "america" and his lies on the subject of spelling, his half assed excuse and apology which I reject out of hand, even if you do not.

    I stand proudly by my spelling.

  10. The obvious solution, doug, since even you admit that massed deportations are a political impossibility ...

    To legalize those folk, so we can legally bill them.

    A solution so clear and simple that it befuddles you.

  11. Hey, one percent will do.

  12. Massed deportations are not necessary, simply do not give them services for free, and not let them continue to take jobs away from citizens.
    Self-deportation follows.

    Quit deporting illegal felons - only to return.
    Let Sheriff Joe house them permanently in the high desert.
    Good source of federal income for AZ or bankrupt CA.

  13. ...Gang members too, of course.

  14. She had her hair, o so very black, down past her shoulders, very brown, her smile was like eternity, o past anything I have ever thought.

  15. "To legalize those folk, so we can legally bill them."
    As if the amount they are billed would ever come near the cost of services given (with preferences)

    ...and the cost to unemployed citizens.

  16. And, Quirk, there is midget wrestling. I was driving down the Blvd, taking my friend home and the sign on the side of the street read, hot girls, midget mud wrestling, Sat. night.


  17. Speaking of Margarita, ville:
    Jimmy Buffet live from Connecticut in about two hours:

    Flash Player

    Win Media Player

  18. " girls, midget mud wrestling..."

    It don't get no better than that Ms. D.


  19. I'm not a big Buffet fan, but my sister is, so a few years ago she drug me to his concert. It was a fun time until the skies opened up and the torrential down pour kept me in the germ infested bathroom, most of the time. I wouldn't have minded if it was a band of my choosing but the once dry grass was now mud and my white shorts were now brown.

  20. Why does everyone like midgets? I don't get it.

  21. I'd be happy to see that course followed, doug.
    I object to deporting convicted felons, we should hold them for the term of their sentences, in Sheriff Joe style work camps.

    But we do not. Do not think that we ever have. Doubt that we will.

    Few leave, more still come, but at a slower pace than two or three years ago. Joe's policies have not stifled the flow, the local economy has.

    Mexico is not going away, we are not walling them out. In fact we are drawing them ever closer, that I-35 corridor now a done deal. Not even an argument to be heard.

    Infrastructure jobs, who's to complain about that?

    While it provides a lowcost conduit for Chinese products, directly to the US heartland, bypassing US Ports of Entry that are manned by Union Longshoremen.

    The issues you are banging were done deals, long ago. The assimilation program is in high gear:

    Mexico's largest retailer, Walmart de Mexico SA, reported Thursday that net profits rose 18 percent in the third quarter, saying discount prices attracted ... › Facts & News › News Room - 23 hours ago -

  22. "Why does everyone like midgets?"

    They are kind of iconic and they aren't as scary as clowns.

  23. There was a movie from the late fifties or early sixties, Chuck Heston, Joseph Conrad and a billion army ants.

    Heston's character had a huge finca, along the Amazon or there about.
    The ultimate ex-patriot hacienda.

    Much nicer than the Colombian drug runners casa in "Romancing the Stone".

  24. Fight Walmart, doug, go right ahead.

    Add them to the list of anti-Americans.
    They do back the Obama Health Insurance Reform Program.

    One of the biggest corporate backers of that reform. With over 1.5 million employees, in the US alone.

    You are so far behind the curve on this ...

  25. I guess, which brings me to my next question. Why are there so many people afraid of clowns.

    My friend is deathly afraid of clowns. Whenever, I needed to pay her for something, I would always write her a check. My checks had clowns on them. Also, I have an old Ronald McDonald doll that, I would place in an area that, I knew she would go when she came to my house. I always did love her.

  26. MLD: I guess, which brings me to my next question. Why are there so many people afraid of clowns.

    Because they keep getting elected to the White House and screwing up this great country!

  27. You're an ass hole, Rat.

    Day after day you go at it.

    You're actually, an ignoramous.

    A noble, cultured, long suffering people, you attack.

    If deuce would let us take a vote, you'd be outta, by about 20 to 1.


  28. That was one of my favorite pieces. I thought, I would share.

  29. Wholly Smokes!

    Where do you city girls come up with such stuff!

    Question asked from an old country boy.

  30. Things heard recently:

    In order to cut the unemployment rate by half, the economy would have to add 250K jobs every month for the next five years.

    46% of the country's banks made no money last quarter.

  31. It's contempary dance. Like tap, ballet, jazz, salsa, broadway, etc...

  32. I want to take a vote, as to who should be on the Board of Directors.

    Deuce, please.

    You are the Boss, I know.

    But we should have some decency here.

  33. When my wife is in the mood, she will lap dance me, once in a while, but I'm not supposed to talk about that.

  34. bob,

    I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your friend. Accidents of the sort you describe astound; such things happen to others, not us or our loved ones.

    Some years ago, a friend bought a few acres (he called it a mini-farm). As everyone knows, no farm is complete without a tractor. One afternoon another gentleman farmer bogged down his tractor. My friend drove his over to free it up. His tractor rolled, killing him instantly. To this day, I still shake my head when I think of the loss of such a good man in this goofy way.

    Shabbat is over and my lady is playing camp doctor to about 250 Jewish kids up near Dahlonega. She invited me to tag along but I felt my presence might inhibit the youngsters.


    PS: You wrote:
    "It's disgusting, and, you are blowing your own brains out with your own argument..."

    Bob, one of your most admirable qualities is the ability to always see the best in people, to fearlessly take that leap of faith :)

  35. Old Walt was actually a great guy, a little on the severe side. He was a good guy, and knew his farming, really well. I was really saddened by his passing, when I read of it in the newspaper.

    He had an eye for the ladies, too.

  36. Well, Bob, you're one lucky fella. There is no need to talk about it just supply a video, since apparently this site enjoys them.

  37. Heh, my wife can get it on, but she's not an expositionist.

  38. Bob, we set the rules to allow for the greatest latitude of opinion. It takes a unanimous vote to expel. That means a board member would have to agree to expel himself.

    There are some very interesting posters and commenters here. I would save my energy to engage those that interested me or at a minimum ignore those whose opinion I did not respect.

    Relax pal. Your contribution is welcomed and read by all. I especially enjoy your creativity and your observations on a part of the country and a life not known to most of us.

  39. Fair enough.

    I'm off to the movies to see that hot and sexy, mysterious vampire. Talk about wanting a lap dance.

  40. Turn down the lights. Light a candle. Drink some wine. Listen to the music. Turn your thoughts to that magic private dance, the hungry crazy frantic match between a man and woman that ends in a draw of satisfaction,

    Sated passion trumps all.

  41. bob,

    What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

    Somethings and some folks are "real", others not so much.

    Once, in a snit, I broached the question of a vote. Since then, I've thought better of it. Three things are gained by the presence of the hater: 1) my resolve is strengthened to avoid giving vent to my rage; 2) the research necessary to counter the always intellectual dishonesty is often fascinating; and, 3) knowing how the other side is working is helpful.

  42. Sated passion trumps all

    I'm with you guys.

    I love sex, too.

  43. I have the same respect for the Isreali as I do for Abracadabra and the Persians.

    None what so ever.

    But I do not hate either of those regimes, just find them basically equivalent.

  44. "Turn down the lights. Light a candle. Drink some wine. Listen to the music..."



  45. You're a prick, Desert Rat, and a mindless man, unintellegent.

  46. Surprise, surprise, the Democrats mustered 60 votes in the Senate to debate Health Insurance Reform legislation.

    Guess that not enough pressure was brought to bear on that Democrat Senator from Arkansas.

    Never thought there would be.

  47. From you boobie, that is a compliment.

    Thank you.

  48. You can't see the difference between the Persians, and the Jewish folk of today, you are a moron, self proclaimed.

  49. You are a piece of living shit, Rat, all of us here agree.

  50. You don't have to hate regimes to hate people.

    Yes, moral equivalency and the banality of evil...That says it all. A thousand Nedas would be all the same to you...foolish, silly man...

    Yesterday, upon the stair,
    I met a man who wasn’t there
    He wasn’t there again today
    I wish, I wish he’d go away...

    When I came home last night at three
    The man was waiting there for me
    But when I looked around the hall
    I couldn’t see him there at all!
    Go away, go away, don’t you come back any more!
    Go away, go away, and please don’t slam the door... (slam!)

    Last night I saw upon the stair
    A little man who wasn’t there
    He wasn’t there again today
    Oh, how I wish he’d go away

    1. Nice to have money and talk crap while when you need a civil engineer the whole amount of blame goes there and the money went some where else. Then you get cal drug gangs with government that helps them but wants your guns after you saved their asses in Central America and so on and on...Drups/bad politicians and insane gun shooting criminals versus the losers that are not.

  51. MLD, watching those stupid vampire movies about people NOT having sex is its own punishment.

  52. desert rat said...
    I really do not care what bob says, or said, with regards Isreal.
    If it was not working as desired, you would not make comment upon it.
    It serves it's purpose, well.
    I recall Mr "america" and his lies on the subject of spelling, his half assed excuse and apology which I reject out of hand, even if you do not.
    I stand proudly by my spelling.

    I proudly call you an asshole....

    I proudly call your a distorter of facts

    I proudly call you jackass...

    Some day, some way, that hair that is stuck your ass about Israel will will cause your ruin, if it hasnt already...

    So keep calling it "isreal" and everyone who reads your words will understand in a nanosecond your true black heart...

  53. Obviously he never read an account of the hell on earth known as ha'shoah, it turned my stomach but I'm writing a novel with a holocaust survivor in it. Equivalency my ass.

  54. I've been better insulted by far worse than rat...

    no, rat is just an angry, confused, bitter prick...

    I guess his life just didnt turn out the way he had planned or dreamed...

    now he reads James Campbell and dreams of following his bliss...

    I read somewhere that rat's bliss (naval lint collecting) is a time consuming art form practiced by the looney and lonely....

  55. If you were to walk into a doctors office and there were only two seats left would you stand or sit next to a stranger?

    I met my daughter at the movies for a 10:10 showing, she got off work at 10:00 and works in the same shopping center. By the time I got my popcorn and peanut m&m's the only seats that were left were down in the front. Three seconds of looking at the screen and my eyes were dizzy. We got a refund and we're going back tomorrow. Oh, there were seats to sit in but God forbid someone should sit next to a here, one there.

  56. t, the shoah is but the latest and greatest of trama that my tribe has been thru...

    what makes me tick is not just thinking about that, but rather not allowing another one to happen..

    we say, "in every generation arises a haman who will seek to wipe us out" and it's been pretty close to that...

    but still the jewish people survive and prosper...

    the amazing story of the last 160 years of current jewish history is quite unique...

    from the rebirth of Israel, it's liberation of historic lands, to unimaginable pain from the shoah, the Kossaks, the ghettos, et al...

    and yet Israel, sits on 1.650th of the middle east (without oil) and out produces the entire arab world (including oil)

    the story of Israel is so remarkable it's creepy sometimes...

    ya just got to wonder wtf, how does Israel keep doing it and coming out on top...

    rat has never traveled the middle east, let alone israel, and thus his educated view of Judaic studies is via a James Campbell garage sale copy of "power of myth"....

    rat verses the State of Israel?

    ha h aha haha ha ha ha ha

  57. T, you're right. The first thing I said after seeing the first movie was there wasn't any sex in it.

    So, I sit here with the lights turned up, watching TV and the only magic dance, I'll be doing is running to the bathroom after drinking a bottle of water.

  58. I rise in prominence as a threat to the State of Isreal, when all I've ever said is that it is an illegitimate as a government of the people of that land.

    It does not represent at least half the folk that call the Levant home.

    The Ireali government will not allow for one man one vote, for all the residents and returning war refugees.

    They will not offer equal rights to all their residents. The State of Isreal is a "Jim Crow" society, and as such does not deserve the support of the United States.

    That there are other countries in that region that do not deserve US support, well that goes without question.

    To demand provision for full and equal rights to all the residents of the Levant is not an expression of a hatred of Jews, but hatred of discrimination and hate, itself, as practiced by a State against a people it has historically exploited and abused.
    Even targeted with terror tactics.

  59. "Guess that not enough pressure was brought to bear on that Democrat Senator from Arkansas."

    How can you put any pressure on Blanch Lincoln? She's like and eel. Slippery. She will tell you anything you want to hear. The problem is you can't really believe it.

    Much easier dealing with someone like Mary Landrieu. Kick $100 million her way and your home free.


  60. "If one is attacked as a Jew," she said, "one must defend oneself as a Jew. Not as a German, not as a world-citizen, not as an upholder of the Rights of Man."

    …enabled a form of government to appear that, though made by men, denied humanity and in which the meaninglessness of life and indifference towards death was the primary common experience.

    That such evil cannot be encompassed by conventional categories of thought, that it has no humanly comprehensible motives, is its radicality.

    …she sought to know "Who was Eichmann?" and "What were his deeds, not insofar as his crimes were part and parcel of the Nazi system" but insofar as he was a distinct human being?

    The realization that the most extreme evil has no meaning that the human mind can reveal, that it is not only senseless in its own terms but meaningless in any terms…

    Evil: The Crime against Humanity (Hannah Arendt)

  61. It is not me that threatens Isreal, but the lack of children born there.

    The Isreali are to selfish to breed.
    They abort their own.

    Demographics is the enemy of Isreal, not me.

    There are no more Russians immigrating to the Levant. There are few more Europeons left to move to that Club Med atmosphere in Haifa.

    The Americans are not emigrating.

    Birth rates, that's what tells the tale of the future of Isreal.

  62. Well, quirk, there were 19 votes against.

    60 yeas, 19 nays

    There is a message, there.

  63. I have never read of it, but I truly doubt that abortion is very common within the Islamic sphere of influence.

    Little boogers have lots of kids.
    Rug rats everywhere.
    Then they have the audacity to dress 'em up like Army men. Little uniforms and everything.

    But then, that is a normal, American thing to do.

  64. Must be those liberal blogs you hang out at Rat. The NYT says the vote was 60-39. Regardless, 39 or 19 it doesn't matter, it was the 60Dem votes that counted.

  65. It was CNN that I read it on, Quirk.
    Across the scroll, it may be that my eyes failed me.

    Which tells another tale.
    As time marches on.

  66. Sixty Senate votes, that's more than the GOP ever held.

    Which is why I do not think the mantra that the US is "center-right" is accurate.

    The Democratic majorities are to large and to persistent for that to be true. Even when the GOP held the majority in the Senate, it was because the low density States voted GOP. The minority of the Dem Senators garnered a majority of the total vote count.

    Al Gore won the popular vote.

    All indicators of where the "center" really is.

    This is the only blog I visit, unless we link to one, from here, or it Googles in response to a query.

  67. Or, it could be the Times screwed up...again.

    However, I would suspect most of the Senators would vote on this one.

    I would be interested in knowing who the senator was that didn't vote though.

  68. I was surprised by that 19 number, which is why I mentioned it. Would not doubt that from across the room I misread the scroll.

    From the AP

    The 60-39 vote cleared the way for a bruising, full-scale debate beginning after Thanksgiving on the legislation, which is designed to extend coverage to roughly 31 million who lack it, crack down on insurance company practices that deny or dilute benefits and curtail the growth of spending on medical care nationally.
    GOP Sen. George Voinovich of Ohio was the only senator not to vote.

  69. While the most popular cultural phenomena in the US ...


    LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - "The Twilight Saga: New Moon" smashed the record for a single-day opening at the North American box office, and was on track to score one of the biggest weekend tallies of all time, according to preliminary data issued on ...

    Along with the ghost hunter shows and that John Edwards fella, the one that talks to the dead on TV.

    None of which is an indication that we are a "center-right and Christian" nation.

  70. rat continues to speak out his asshole:

    desert rat said...
    It is not me that threatens Isreal, but the lack of children born there.

    Rat's PLO educated pov about the "demographic problems" show the weakness when arguing from fiction not fact...

    Current population rates in Israel are just fine, coupled with emigration to israel from france, venezula, america, canada and more...

    couple that with the fact that arab are having fewer kids and have vastly over exaggerated their population numbers by at least 30% and as much as 50% in some counts...

    in quitting gaza, israel actually has taken major steps to limit any demographic time bomb that might have been ticking...

    now any fool can draw a circle and make claims about how everyone in the circle deserves a vote but thank all that is holy that fool aint in charge...

    arabs have 21 nations already, Jews have one..

    the arab world has already voiced their vote about the "jewish/israel" question by expelling 650,000 jews in 1948 and stealing their property.. they infact help create the modern state of israel by the very action of ethnic cleansing of it's own jewish population...

    rat's knowledge of Israel is limited to his PLO quick fact book...

    I expect he'll come up with some more fiction soon...

  71. My source for the demographic profile, that's Mr Olmert, the previous Prime Minister.

    Perhaps he speaks from the PLO handbook, I've never seen one.

  72. WiO, Rat's ass started picking up on Joseph Campbell, after I mentioned him a few times.

    I can tell you this, Rat's ass doesn't know a damned thing about Campbell,

    who was a very good man, and just dealt in images.

    Images was what it was all about to him, he was the least prejudiced man your ever going to see.

    An image, from the tip of South America, or from the Sioux, or from the Germans, or from your tribe, was all the same to him.

    He worked in images.

  73. Figure that the head of that Government would have a full grasp of the challenges that face it, even if they did not have a solution to them.

  74. Keep telling yourself that, bob.

    It'll keep you warm and fuzzy.

  75. A smelly bastard, and illiterate.

  76. The work, bob ...

    The Power of Myth.

    Spoke to the the equivalency of the major religions.

    He used the symbols of the various religions and cultures to illustrate that equivalency.

    Which does not discount the equivalency of the myths, or that they are just that, myths.

  77. That a myth was written down, does not legitimize it, even if it was written down 3,000 years ago.

    It is still just a myth.

    That is the basic message and our State Religion.
    The equivalency of people, regardless of race or religion.

  78. Ranting again, boobie.

    Back on the bottle?

  79. What is the deep secret that the images do say, o Rat's ass.

    I can tell you, here is a hint.

    That on the other side of life, through death, there is always something more.

    This is what the deep images say, o Shithead.

  80. "Which is why I do not think the mantra that the US is "center-right" is accurate.

    I think you are conflating politics with political philosophy. The 2008 election was a bit of an aberration. The perfect storm for the GOP if you would. An unpopular president, mediocre candidates, a sinking economy, an unpopular war, etc. And don't confuse the Bush administration with "conservative". They were neocon, something entirely different. It was the perfect set up for the Dems. America was looking for a "change".

    Well they got it but recent polls would indicate that they are not all that happy with the change they got. Few of the many promises they were offered have come to fruition. (No need to go through the list.)

    We had this discussion before and I told you I thought it was the independents that decide in which direction the country moves. (I think I made the point that you have a GOP base around 25% of the electorate and a Dem base in the 25-30% range. The rest of the voters consider themselves independents.) Since then, polls show party affiliation for both Dems and GOP is falling. Those who identify as independents are growing.

    I believe the independent voters are on average center right. We can agree to disagree, but the 2010 elections should give us some indication on who is right.


  81. That is what the deeper meaning might be, of the Jews fleeing from
    Egypt, you

  82. "None of which is an indication that we are a "center-right and Christian" nation."

    Vampires? Ghost Hunters? Sorry Rat. It's getting late but I'm missing the logic behind that argument.

  83. That the 2010 elections will.

    I look to the trends and go back to the 2000 election, where Al Gore won, the popular vote, and when Mr Bush was still a "Conservative".

    '04 goes to the power of incumbency and JFKerry, himself.

    The whipping that the GOP took in the congressional elections goes beyond anti-Bush sentiment.

    That the Dems will lose a few seats, almost guaranteed. But that Ms Pelosi or another Democrat will be Speaker also almost guaranteed.

  84. The link between them, Quirk, is the lack of Christianity in the popular cultural themes.

    Demonic agents, with hearts of gold.

    Perhaps Christian doctrine as regarding vampires, ghosts, astrology and such has changed since I was taught the basics. But they were not things to be popularized, merchandised and exalted by Christians.

    More of a secular preoccupation and perception of death, religion and prognosticating upon the future.

  85. My perspective being that the Christians are more conservative, at least "center-right" than the secular.

    "Christian Right" being a mobilized political force, in the not to distant past.

    The rise of demonic cultural icons, not an indicator of conservative values, seems to me.

  86. Those popular symbols telling a tale.

  87. Fuck your "outlook", you're, actually, a home bred moron.

    And, everybody knows it.

    We'd vote you out, bout 20 to 1.


  88. Trying to stifle free speech, you fuckin' fascist.

    Name calling twerp.

    Your daughter gets raped and you not exact revenge.

    Fuck you loser.

  89. It's my opinion that people "talk" center right, and "vote" center left. People like Soc Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Clean Water, Clean Air, the right to control their own bodies, minimum wage, consumer protection, etc.

    If a vote ever comes up when I'm gone Deuce has my proxy to vote against ever kicking anyone off the list (the lone exception being the most vile, repeated, racist rhetoric.) Even then, in the case of it being a regular, I would only vote for a "time out."

  90. As for you, two. Go to bed.

  91. "Your daughter gets raped and you not exact revenge."

    And that is exactly why you are such a big ass hole.

    Yes, it is true my daughter got raped.

    And then I had to make up my mind what to do.

    She didn't want to talk to me about it.

    She may have been right about that.

    My wife and I gave her all the support we could.

    It's best I don't know who the felon was.

    I might kill him.

    You are a piece of crap, Rat.

  92. ""Christian Right" being a mobilized political force, in the not to distant past.

    The rise of demonic cultural icons, not an indicator of conservative values, seems to me.

    Quite a stretch Rat. The "Christian Right" that you are talking about was part of the GOP base, the 20-25% I talked about not the independents.

    Heck, Catholics, the largest denomination in the US historically has voted Democrat.


  93. You are a piece of living shit, Rat, and, if we had an honest vote, you'd be outta here, prick.

  94. Rat, normally I laugh off stuff that's said here especially when it's not directed at me; but I have to say it, man you are one sorry piece of shit.

  95. MLD: Inconsiderate people in public theaters annoy me. I simply ask them to move over but it is always better to get to a theater early.

  96. I partially agree with Rat re: the Center right and Christian Nation.

    Compared to Europe, the US is conservative. The Europeans like to point out that this is due to our Puritan roots. Once upon a time we were a Christian nation without a state denomination. Since about 1947 when the modern attack on church and state began, we have become more secular.

    I agree with Rat, whom I find to be very intelligent, that the country is not a Christian nation. (We probably disagree on the implications.)

    As far as being center right or center left; The swing vote moves elections within about a ten or twelve percent range. Sometimes left, sometimes right.

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