Lawsuit details Madoff's bottom-bunk prison life
By JENNIFER PELTZ (AP) – 8 hours ago
NEW YORK — Fallen financier Bernard Madoff has plunged from his Manhattan penthouse to the lower bunk of a cell he shares with a drug offender at a federal prison, where he eats pizza cooked by a child molester and hangs around with a mob boss and a convicted spy, according to legal papers filed Tuesday.
The snapshot of Madoff's prison life — and a contrasting picture of a former high-flying life laced with cocaine and salacious parties — are in a legal complaint filed by Burlingame, Calif.-based lawyer Joseph Cotchett, who represents about a dozen victims of Madoff's massive investment Ponzi scheme. Cotchett interviewed Madoff in July at the Butner Federal Correctional Complex near Raleigh, N.C.
The lawyer found the mastermind of one of history's largest financial frauds now reduced to nighttime walks around a prison track for fun, according to the new filing. It builds on one investor's existing civil case against various Madoff associates and financial institutions; the suit claims they were complicit in Madoff's fraud or should have stopped it. Madoff has consistently said he acted alone.
When not rubbing elbows with drug and sex offenders, Madoff spends time with Carmine Persico, a reputed Colombo crime family boss, and Jonathan Pollard, an American convicted of selling military secrets to Israel more than two decades ago, according to the lawsuit.
Madoff's lawyer, Ira Sorkin, declined to discuss his client's prison life or the lawsuit's allegations about shenanigans in his former office. Telephones for spokespeople for the Federal Bureau of Prisons rang unanswered Tuesday night; the agency's records do show Pollard and Persico are housed at Butner.
The lawsuit goes to length to compare Madoff's prison existence with his deluxe former life, including photos of his yacht and homes and claims that he ran an office rife with drug use and sexual escapades.
According to the allegations — their source isn't specified — Madoff deployed an employee and to get drugs from 1975 to 2003, fueling an office so cocaine-laden insiders dubbed it "the North Pole." Office parties featured topless waitresses, employee affairs were common and Madoff kept a list of his favorite pretty masseuses in his personal phone book, the lawsuit said, claiming investors' money helped pay for it all.
"Employees described it as a wild, fast-talking, drug-using office culture," said the complaint. It says its various allegations are based in part on interviews with other unnamed people besides Madoff.
Madoff, 71, is serving a 150-year sentence after pleading guilty in March to a scheme that authorities say cost thousands of investors at least $13 billion.
The lawsuit doesn't detail his talk with Cotchett. The lawyer previously said the one-time Nasdaq market chairman repeatedly apologized for the harm he caused victims.
Commercial Real Estate Musical ChairsReplyDelete
More than 2,200 commercial properties in Maricopa County have received 90-day foreclosure notices since January 1, representing more than $7 billion in real-estate loans on which the borrowers have failed to make payments.
Overall vacancies -- 24.2%
Scottsdale vacancies -- 29.1%
Downtown Phoenix vacancies -- 15.7%
Southeast Valley vacancies -- 30.5%
FHA Rules Render Condos Utterly WorthlessReplyDelete
The new rules are a reaction to substantial losses on federally insured condominium mortgages in the past year, government officials have said.
In Maricopa County, condominium foreclosures have outpaced condo-unit sales by nearly two to one since Jan. 1, according to real-estate analyst Zach Bowers of Ion Data in Mesa. According to Bowers, lenders foreclosed on about 8,200 condo units between Jan. 1 and Sept. 30, compared with about 4,900 units sold during the same period.
What applies to Arizona also applies to Florida, California, Las Vegas, and anywhere else there is a glut of condos.
Annual Deficits of 2 Trillion, Rather Than 1ReplyDelete
Look at the graph above from the Heritage Foundation. They suggest that current policy would bring us closer to a $2 trillion deficit by 2019.
And that assumes nominal growth that is north of 3% and unemployment dropping back below 5% in reasonably short order.
Total Debt to GDP: 350 - 400 PercentReplyDelete
- Twice as high as the Roaring Twenties!
- Todd Harrison, chief executive officer of Minyanville
From the amount of empty retail and office space, doug, I'd readily believe those numbers.ReplyDelete
Bush and his cronies REALLY screwed the pooch.
That little Texican should go back to boozin'. Sober he was a disaster for the United States from a financial or security perspective.
To bad that fuck Pollard is still alive.ReplyDelete
Spies should be executed, post haste, not held in luxury accommodations.
I dunno, DR, being incarcerated in Federal Supermax is akin to being buried alive.ReplyDelete
Lookin Great, Nancy!ReplyDelete
Dems Lock GOP Out of Committee Room to Protect Colleagues From Investigation
Here’s the Latest From the Pelosi Swamp–
House democrats locked Republicans out of a committee room today to avoid a subpoena vote. Democrats for months have refused to launch an investigation into Countrywide Mortgage’s reported sweetheart deals to VIPs.
The Hill reported:
Rep. Edolphus Towns (D-N.Y.) locked Republicans out of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee room to keep them from meeting when Democrats aren’t present.
Towns’ action came after repeated public ridicule from the leading Republican on the committee, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), over Towns’s failure to launch an investigation into Countrywide Mortgage’s reported sweetheart deals to VIPs.
For months Towns has refused Republican requests to subpoena records in the case. Last Thursday Committee Republicans, led by Issa, were poised to force an open vote on the subpoenas at a Committee mark-up meeting. The mark-up was abruptly canceled. Only Republicans showed up while Democrats chairs remained empty.
Republicans charged that Towns cancelled the meeting to avoid the subpoena vote.
No, it is not, Ms T.ReplyDelete
It is eating pizza and taking late night strolls around the track. It is hanging out with new friends from the "old" neighborhood.
It is having hope.
It is being alive.
To good for a traitorous fuck like Pollard.
That facility, where Pollard and Bernie are at, Ms T, is not a SuperMax facility.ReplyDelete
So while being in one would be terrible, that is not where those two miscreants are.
Bibi still pleads for his release, so Pollard has hope. He should be in the ground or up in smoke.ReplyDelete
Not living on my dime.
Phoenix, Las Vegas, et al were way overbuilt.ReplyDelete
Now bloweth Schumpeter's "Gales of Creative Destruction."
Study which businesses are going out of business, and stay away from that industry.
Yeah, I don't think the guys at Marion are taking late-night "Strolls around the Track."ReplyDelete
Better we should raise 115 bastard black kids, cover their every expense through finishing school, for each and every one of them, than to spend another penny on pizza for traitors like Pollard.ReplyDelete
How do you define "over built" rufus?ReplyDelete
All the capacity was full. There were no empty retail buildings or office space.
It is not like they built it and it never filled. It was built occupied and now abandoned. Does not seem like any previous use of the term "over built" I am familar with. Begas was the same way.
There were no vacancies.
Demand has crumbled, but not because of over supply.
Okay, maybe "overbuilt" was the wrong term. Well, it's "boomed" for a long time. You've gotta have a "bust" every now and then.ReplyDelete
The business cycle hasn't been abolished, yet, as far as I've heard.
From the people I speak to, there is still a lot of demand for single family homes, just not any money available to buy the houses.ReplyDelete
This seems to be the case where the combined income is in the $50 - $75,000 per year range.
Folks that could cover the nut on a $125,000 mortgage, if they could get one.
Where I used to have a bunch of "buddies" sellin' money, now no one I know does.
Hmm, that IS interesting.ReplyDelete
If this is part of a cyclical pattern, it must be a damned long cycle, as I've never seen the likes.ReplyDelete
Makes our previous downturns seem like boom times, to be sure.
More than part of the normal business cycle I think we have been victims of massive fraud and theft, by those "best and brightest" in the financial industry and their revolving door in the Treasury Dept.
It was built on a foundation of mega debt-created sand fueled by govt mandated McMansion Mortage Boom Bubble construction Economy, but none (other than you) Dare call it OVERBUILT, RUFUS!ReplyDelete
California Sending out Approximately 475,000 Notice of Defaults for 2009 yet Overall Foreclosures Declining. Shadow Inventory, Q3 Defaults, Toxic Loans. The State of the National Housing Market.ReplyDelete
Over priced, doug, not over built.ReplyDelete
There is demand for the housing, just not at the prices that were being charged.
If all we are looking at is the number of units, not their size.
I imagine that if we were to find the average square footage of living space, per capita ...
compare 1968 to 2008 ... there may be a case for overbuilding that could be made.
"Where I used to have a bunch of "buddies" sellin' money, now no one I know does."ReplyDelete
I got the impression all the first time buyers of cheaper than rent property were gettin FHA Loans?
Somehow we all survived in ~ a thousand square feet of homestead.
...even had room for a yard.
I heard a Rep. Bryce, from Ca, a few minutes, ago, saying that Congress was requiring half of Fannie, and Freddie loans to be "Subprime."ReplyDelete
We were all set up for a Depression, Rat. If we escape it'll be a miracle.ReplyDelete
Volcker Says Obama Plan Leaves Opening for BailoutsReplyDelete
Volcker Fails to Sell a Bank Strategy
Listen to a top economist in the Obama administration describe Paul A. Volcker, the former Federal Reserve chairman who endorsed Mr. Obama early in his election campaign and who stood by his side during the financial crisis.
“The guy’s a giant, he’s a genius, he is a great human being,” said Austan D. Goolsbee, counselor to Mr. Obama since their Chicago days. “Whenever he has advice, the administration is very interested.”
Well, not lately. The aging Mr. Volcker (he is 82) has some advice, deeply felt. He has been offering it in speeches and Congressional testimony, and repeating it to those around the president, most of them young enough to be his children.
He wants the nation’s banks to be prohibited from owning and trading risky securities, the very practice that got the biggest ones into deep trouble in 2008. And the administration is saying no, it will not separate commercial banking from investment operations.
“I am not pounding the desk all the time, but I am making my point,”
Mr. Volcker said
"We were all set up for a Depression, Rat. If we escape it'll be a miracle."ReplyDelete
Probly closer now than when they sold Big John on TARP.
When I first started work at the Israeli prime minister's office as a speechwriter, I already held a security clearance from a previous job. Still, to obtain the higher level of clearance required for my new position, I had to go through a battery of security tests, interviews, and background checks. Nothing strange there, but then I noticed that the security agents seemed most concerned that I might be spying--for the United States. In fact, much of the questioning turned on this issue. And my clearance was twice delayed because I had a few (not very close) acquaintances who worked in American intelligence. It had never occurred to me that the Israelis were concerned about American espionage, which seemed to me like the least of their troubles, so I asked an Israeli counterintelligence agent if this was really such an issue. "Definitely," he nodded gravely. "They're trying to spy on us all the time--every way they can."ReplyDelete
When I recently brought this up to a former U.S. intelligence official who spent several years working on Middle East issues, he was quick to confirm it. "As an American, I would certainly hope so," he said, referring to the question of whether the United States spies on Israel; he added that he had himself analyzed information from "classified sources in Israel." There is "definitely an inordinate amount of focus" on Israel in U.S. intelligence, he told me. And, when I asked him if he thought there were people in the Israeli government and military who were feeding information to the United States--Israel's own Jonathan Pollards--he said, "It wouldn't surprise me at all." "The neocons ran the administration until recently," he added, but "someone who rides the fence on whether Israel is a true ally in the CIA or [the Department of] Defense would push for that sort of thing."
For obvious reasons, it's impossible to provide current examples of this phenomenon. But there have been cases in the past that have been disclosed, only to be quickly hushed by both the Israeli and American governments (in a way that the Pollard issue, a festering wound to both countries, never was). One of the most telling such examples is the 1986 episode of Yosef Amit. Amit was a major in Israeli military intelligence. At one point, he worked in the secretive "Unit 504," which is responsible for coordinating spies in Arab countries neighboring Israel, and he also had close contacts in the Shin Bet, Israel's domestic intelligence agency. In the mid-'80s, Amit was recruited by Tom Waltz, a Jewish CIA officer based in the CIA's station in Tel Aviv. And, until his arrest, he furnished the CIA with classified information about Israel's troop movements and its plans in both the occupied territories and Lebanon.
The incident got little press in either the United States or Israel, whose government barely even complained about it. Waltz stayed at his post in Tel Aviv, and, later, when officials inside the Israeli government considered offering to trade Amit for Pollard (or even to release Amit in exchange for leniency for Pollard), they quickly nixed the idea, because they feared stoking more anger in the United States. To some Israeli government officials I have spoken with, there is a lingering sense that Israel has been subjected to a "double standard," as one of them put it.
I do not disagree with that, rufus, about a "Depression". But that does not move the responsibility for it.ReplyDelete
That it is not as bad as it "could have been", only benefits the current Administration.
As well it should.
There were a thousand points of light to illuminate those responsible for, what at best could be called, mismanagement.
At worse, criminal fraud.
The buck stopped at the Resolve desk, in the Oval Office, where GW Bush sat addled and confused.
"My brain is a bit addled by whiskey" (Eugene O'Neill)
Spying goes on everyday....ReplyDelete
America spies on both enemies and allies...
AND I SHOULD HOPE SO.....
There is nothing wrong with the Isreali trying to spy on the US, Mr "Misdirection".ReplyDelete
That is not traitorous, since Isreal is not part of the US, just a client City State, looking out for its' own interests.
Nor is it out of bounds for US to spy upon the Isreali, as they hold no loyalty to the US.
It is Pollard that is the traitorous spy, there is no excuse for him to be alive.
It is not who he was spying for, it is that he betrayed the trust that the people of the United States of America bestowed upon him. For that he should be dead.
Meanwhile, the Trucks still aren't running. Distillate (think: Diesel) demand was 3.5 million barrels per day last week. A year and a half, ago, we were using about 4.5 million bpd.ReplyDelete
Doesn't matter. China's making up for it. Oil's up, again.
And, obviously, the Isreali are not holding any Isreali citizens that were spying for the US, or Bibi would offer a swap.ReplyDelete
"More than part of the normal business cycle I think we have been victims of massive fraud and theft, by those "best and brightest" in the financial industry and their revolving door in the Treasury Dept."
While I agree that there has been massive fraud and theft I think the problems lie deeper than that. For many years we saw a monetary expansion fueled by government deficit and non-bank entities creating money. Huge pools of speculative capital sloshed about the world and much of it disappeared though there still remains large amounts. The federal governments around the world dashed in and created new money recently as so much of that money disappeared though the feds haven't created any amounts near to what disappeared. As many banks and other financial institutions were left holding worthless or devalued securities many had huge debts on the other side of the ledger. Similarly so goes the 'regular joe' today. Annual incomes exceeded annual expenditures and assets purchased devalued (cars and houses primarily) yet the debts remain. An economy fueled (70% I've read) primarily by consumer spending is facing some....headwinds.
WiO: To some Israeli government officials I have spoken with, there is a lingering sense that Israel has been subjected to a "double standard," as one of them put it.ReplyDelete
Double standard. Oh really. Israel isn't part of the Non-Proliferation Treaty, unlike Iran, but we ping on Iran and look the other way when Israel makes nukes.
desert rat said...ReplyDelete
And, obviously, the Isreali are not holding any Isreali citizens that were spying for the US, or Bibi would offer a swap.
It's Israel, not Isreal.
As America turns away from it's allies across the globe and instead starts supporting groups like hamas, hezbollah and Iran, those dissed allies will in fact start arresting people who spy for America, and unlike your pov they will not execute them but will quietly expel to the USA.
America and Israel have spied on each other...
Pollard spied on the USA and released information of the wherasabouts of the PLO in north africa (information promised to be shared by the USA) and now has a life sentence.
America has released numerous spies over the decades from the ussr that in fact caused the deaths of American spies across the globe..
Why does America keep Pollard under lock and key while releasing others that have done far worse?
that is the question...
i do not advocate the release of pollard, however i do not advocate the release of those who have harmed the nation in a worse way...
But not to worry, within the next few years, under obama, there will be nothing left worth spying on...
T: Double standard. Oh really. Israel isn't part of the Non-Proliferation Treaty, unlike Iran, but we ping on Iran and look the other way when Israel makes nukes.ReplyDelete
We dont look the other way, we SPY on Israel every chance we get... and SINCE those that SIGN the NPT GET rewards for SIGNING it, those that do not SIGN it do not get those benefits...
It was not for Pollard to decide what the US shared with others.ReplyDelete
That was not his decision to make.
He is a traitor to his country, his people and his own personal honor.
He should have died because of it.
Not be treated to pizza nights on my dime.
Our intelligence relationship with Israel is...a little thorny. And this remained the case during eight years of "neocon" preeminence. It will likely always be thus.ReplyDelete
The Jordanians by comparison offer a walk in the park. We like them better for those purposes.
It's not personal. It just is.
And it is and will remain Isreal.ReplyDelete
7 lies in 2 minutesReplyDelete
And though it's understandably one of Israel's hobby horses, Pollard will NEVER be released by ANY administration.ReplyDelete
desert rat said...ReplyDelete
And it is and will remain Isreal.
It's Israel, no matter how suborn, stupid, inbred, mean spirited you wish to be, it's ISRAEL and one nitwit like you cannot change that fact.....
I on the otherhand, did not "cap" America and was scolded and never have written it that way again..
I am not a small minded person, unlike you...
So keep typing Israel incorrectly and keep looking like a retarded jew hating piece of rat turd...
desert rat said...ReplyDelete
It was not for Pollard to decide what the US shared with others.
That was not his decision to make.
He is a traitor to his country, his people and his own personal honor.
He should have died because of it.
Not be treated to pizza nights on my dime.
All spies that are convicted of spying on America should be treated the same.
to hold special punishment to ONE that did far less damage than others is un-American...
But rat your no American that i can tell... I doubt your loyalties to the constitution....
Any US citizen convicted of spying upon the US, or committing a terror attack upon her, should die.ReplyDelete
My Standard is constant.
I am not the one that denies that the Constitutionally elected President was Constitutionally elected.ReplyDelete
I know you have never sworn an oath to protect that Constitution, from all enemies, foreign or domestic.
I know that you have never sacrificed a single day of your life in the defense of the Constitution or its' government.
You can say whatever you please, about me. The truth is the truth, regardless.
When did Mr. Netanyahu seek Pollard's release?
Friday, December 18, 1998ReplyDelete
Netanyahu renews bid for Pollard’s release
by JERUSALEM (JPS) -- Admitting Sunday that convicted spy Jonathan Pollard had been sent by Israel on a "mistaken mission," Prime M, "Since he was sent by us on a mistaken mission -- not to work against the United States, but nevertheless, to break the laws of.
Netanyahu called Pollard's actions "bad and inexcusable," and openly admitted that Pollard had been sent by Israel to spy on the United States.
"We think he should have served his time, and he did," said Netanyahu, stressing that Pollard had already served close to 13 years, most of them in solitary confinement.
"All that I appealed to President Clinton for is merely a humanitarian appeal...It is not based on exonerating Mr. Pollard. There is no exoneration for it," said Netanyahu. "It is not political. It is not to exonerate him. It is merely to end a very, very sorry case that has afflicted him and the people of Israel."
The Israelis, however, have nothing on the Chinese (and their US network) who, could we be so bothered, would fill a substantial prison all by themselves.ReplyDelete
Or the French. Who get away with outright thievery every day of the week. They're very good.
Yes, that Pollard thing is a real burning issue for Mr. Netanyahu. It's been nearly 11 years since Mr. Netanyahu reluctantly, half-heartedly asked for Pollard's release.ReplyDelete
Once more, DR, you prove that you have never been a gentleman: You take a kernel of truth (something that happened 11 years ago) and foist it on readers as current Israeli policy. DR, as the full transcript of Mr. Netanyahu's old remarks make clear, Pollard's release has NEVER figured highly with any Israeli or American administration.
What is really fascinating about this micro-tempest is the complete lack of attention given to something significant provided by Doug: the destruction of Israeli's shop in Iran and the possible American involvement in that rollup. Doug has twice asked me to address this question. He has now taken the first step in answering his own question, with additional between-the-lines research.
It is such wasteful obfuscation as this that makes DR a boar.
CORRECTION: "bore" is correct...sorryReplyDelete
Israel DOES seek Pollard's release. As a symbolic gesture for both sides.ReplyDelete
That he will not be released is almost beside the point. Nations endeavor to retrieve their own.
I never said it was a "big" issue for Bibi.ReplyDelete
I said it gave Pollard hope.
Are you trying to misdirect the conversation?
Although Pollard deserves to be shot, shooting spies is unconscionably wasteful and dangerous.ReplyDelete
Among other things, spies can offer a comprehensive look inside the opposition leadership's head, laying bare those things most feared by the opposition, which led to the spy's deployment in the first place.
Good spies tend to be highly intelligent collectors of data. It can take years of patient, imperceptible extraction to obtain that data, one tiny bit at a time.
While killing Pollard would give relief to the anxieties of that "old-time religion", it would do nothing to shield American security.
As to who should pick up the cost of late night pizza, that prison generates lots of laundry, I'd bet. At $0.15 per day pay, Mr. Pollard could afford a pizza about once a quarter.
Another day, another thread diminished.ReplyDelete
Pollard's release is NOT a major blip on Israel's radar. Had it been, he would have been.ReplyDelete
Oil is looking "comfortable" above $80.00.ReplyDelete
And I am saying that Pollard was one of "ours" not theirs.ReplyDelete
He was a US citizen.
He took an oath and betrayed the people he swore to protect.
As allen linked to the other day, the wanna be "spy" is often led to believe one thing, while another is the reality.
In that case the wanna be spy thought the FBI were the Isrealis. He thought he was assisting Isreal with his treachery and that made it a "good thing". It could have been the Chinese or the Russians, as easily as the FBI, pretending to be Isreali.
That'd be bad. The wanna be Ireali hero can easily be preyed upon.
Called a "False Flag" operation in Tom Clancy's Net Force novels.
I'm waiting breathlessly for Doug's big undercover bit myself.ReplyDelete
"He was a US citizen."ReplyDelete
Whaddya think makes the Chinese so damned good?
That was rhetorical.ReplyDelete
Muslims in Somalia now demand that women shake their breasts when they appear in public, so that inspectors may determine if they are wearing “un-Islamic” bras.ReplyDelete
The orders have been carried out at gunpoint by a group called Al Shabaab, who control of the streets of Mogadishu.
If the women display an un-natural firmness, the inspectors feel their breasts to determine if the uplift is produced with the assistance of a bra. Often younger women must reveal their mammary glands to prove that they have not been corrupted by Western culture.
The Daily Mail (London) reports that women have been publicly whipped for wearing hidden undergarments, with Islamists claiming that it is a “deceptive” act before Allah to wear supportive devices.
Al Shabaab is attempting to impose a strict interpretation of Shariah (Islamic law) throughout the country.
The radical Muslim group has also been known to whip men caught without a beard.
In Mogadishu and other Somali cities, dancing at wedding ceremonies is forbidden, along with soccer playing, musical events, alcohol, and movies.
Blogger whit said...ReplyDelete
"Another day, another thread diminished."
Look on the bright side - at least there is a thread and it is active.
The "Mogadishu Titty Police"ReplyDelete
Whatta deal. How much do the young men pay to be "police" in Somalia?
"In that case the wanna be spy thought the FBI were the Isrealis. He thought he was assisting Isreal with his treachery and that made it a "good thing".ReplyDelete
There was an article in yesterday's Jerusalem Post (reprinted in today's RealClearWorld.com) about Stewart Nozette who the FBI picked up in September as a spy for Israel.
It may be that these guys can delude themselves into thinking they are doing it for "the cause". However, I think most of them are just in it for the money.
"In the words of Channing D. Phillips, acting US attorney for the District of Columbia: "This case reflects our firm resolve to hold accountable any individual who betrays the public trust by compromising our national security for his or her own personal gain."
What I linked the other day was a demonstration of the pervasiveness of cheating.
While you seem incurious, I would like to know what led the Feds to believe they had a live one to bait. We will, I hope, both agree that the Feds didn't just pick up a phone book and make a random call?
While I do not disagree that spies are disagreeable (homegrown or imported) the culture in which these germs thrive seems to be accepted as the norm by insiders. As Trish has correctly stated, the Chinese and French are especially gifted (or well received).
Rufus: Whatta deal. How much do the young men pay to be "police" in Somalia?ReplyDelete
That explains the rise in piracy, they gotta get seed money to pay off the Police Academy.
I see the skirmish between The Chosen Ones and Rat continues....ReplyDelete
"Show Me Them Titties, Baby!"ReplyDelete
Man, that Izlam has got it all figgered out. We'll never beat the terrists, now.
Well there goes the Somali lingerie industry.ReplyDelete
There will be no secrets for Victoria now.
But why stop at the top?
What about un-islamic panties?
Islam--a conspiracy of infantile men against the women.ReplyDelete
When I see a statue of Lady Liberty in one of those countries, I'll know change has come.
But they'd probably want to feel the Lady up.
Mom brought me a little statue of Lady Liberty to me from New York, back in the fifties.
"Lady Liberty", she said.
Re: "chosen ones"ReplyDelete
Sorry all...WiO wrote about US undercover work against the Israelis, not doug...ReplyDelete
I think the most--or one of the most--important and striking things in our western tradition is liberty for ladies.ReplyDelete
I know, I know...I know when the women first got the vote here, etc.
But has there ever been any time, in any of the western countries, or any of the indiginous groups around here, where the men went around in the streets feeling up the ladies?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't think of it.
Much mistreatment of women in many ways, no argument, but going around feeling them up?
This is pathological.
And the whole drift of our way has been to free people up. So that, finally, they can come to their own intelligent choices, in their owns lives, as how to behave during the day. As long as no harm is done to others. Then our law is supposed to step in.
I can't think of anywhere in Shakespeare for instance, where anyone goes about feeling up the ladies.
They may kill them, or the ladies kill them, but nobody goes about feeling up the ladies.
Far as I can recall, anyway.
Re: "chosen ones"ReplyDelete
What about me?
Read Tocqeville on American women.ReplyDelete
You are most certainly NOT chopped liver...sorry...had a flare of pre-dementia
Re: "feeling up ladies"
Where are there husbands, sons and relatives?
Allen: Re: "chosen ones"ReplyDelete
Is there a ribbon that goes with that?
I haven't read much Tocqueville.ReplyDelete
In two short--understandable--sentences, what did he say, on the topic?
I can't think it was in our Southern tradition for men to go about feeling up the ladies.
Not in the northern tradition, either.
Out west here, it was never the thing.
In all the letters I've read from my far flung family here, such a thing has never been mentioned.
It was never mentioned, probably never ever thought of, in Sweden, far as I know.
Even the Nazis, totalitarian statists of the first order, didn't go about doing that.
Kill you for your 'race' yes, but not for your bra.
Miss T, you look striking today, I must say.ReplyDelete
"In two short--understandable--sentences, what did he say, on the topic?"ReplyDelete
Man after my own heart.
The American family is a flat organization.
The American male would spare no severity in prosecution of those who robbed the female of her virtue.
I still trying to deal with "chosen ones".
ah, poor chattel requiring manly men to protect their virtue for them.ReplyDelete
What the fuck, Ash.ReplyDelete
Is it just me, or are you the most tone-deaf bastard on the face of the earth?
What the fuck, Ash.ReplyDelete
Is it just me, or are you the most tone-deaf bastard on the face of the earth?
It ain't you, the answer to the following question is "YES!".
No, not "heh heh."ReplyDelete
And what about me, Allen, Am I the "potted plant"?ReplyDelete
You don't find the idea of men protecting the virtue of women a little, errrr, quaint? Women aren't capable of protecting their own virtue?ReplyDelete
"You don't find the idea of men protecting the virtue of women a little, errrr, quaint?"ReplyDelete
Not when it was solely men who were enforcing the law. No.
And I don't find it quaint today. I think it's a genuine reflection of our uniquely democratic culture.
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...ReplyDelete
"Muslims in Somalia now demand that women shake their breasts when they appear in public, so that inspectors may determine if they are wearing “un-Islamic” bras"
Men protecting the virtue of women?
they aren't men, they are Somalian Muslims.ReplyDelete
Ahh...I may need to get the advice of a specialist :)
By the way, Allen, my reference to "the Chosen Ones" was meant in the upmost respect! May the Lord Bless You and Keep You and Shine His Light on You and Your Family!ReplyDelete
(see, I know blessing Jews is also a blessing on myself!)
You don't find the idea of men protecting the virtue of women a little, errrr, quaint?ReplyDelete
In our past, I don't find the idea, except marginally, of men protecting the 'virtue' of women.
I find rather the idea of independent women, whose rights are to be respected, the idea of 'men protecting the virtue of women' being an islamic one, a conspircy of men againt the women.
You want your virtue to be 'protected' by the women, Ash?
Or, would you rather have your own independent rights, to do with as you wish?
See the poetry of the deeper middle ages in Europe, where men may have sung about 'virtue' of women, but they began to understand fully the rights of women.
That is what a main element of the current dispute is, along with the price of oil, etc.
I think we mostly agree here, you seemingly being unable to come right out and say it, islam is fundamentally against the rights of women.
And, misunderstanding that we are not talking about 'protecting virtue', but human rights.
Which is supposed to be your specialty.
In the west the rights of women have been a mainstay of our culture, particularily well expressed in the poetry of the middle ages.
You are kind of behind the curve here, Ash.
Even though you are on the right side, friend of women.
Unlike my household, where my daughter is armed and trained, Muslim women are not armed and trained. Their men are.
Thus, to be protected from the abuse ("hee, hee") you manly Muslims like to dish out, these gals must rely upon guys with gonads and guns. Since the Muslim world suffers no shortage of guns, the reported abuse must, therefore, stem from the lack of gonads.
Despite my best efforts, I misunderstand about as often as I am misunderstood.
Ash is afraid of Womem.ReplyDelete
I know the feeling.....
"In our past, I don't find the idea, except marginally, of men protecting the 'virtue' of women."ReplyDelete
Rape was a hanging offense.
And that's what I meant. Wandering into another narrative.
Ash is afraid of women.ReplyDelete
I think so too.
Women can be scary, I've known the feeling, recently too, just the other day in fact, right here, at the Bar, but we are talking about rights, not virtue, whatever that is.
You don't go about in the street feeling up women.
This is not about virtue, but rights.
Rape was a hanging offense.ReplyDelete
AND IT DAMN WELL SHOULD BE
Am I the only one here familiar with 19th century English?ReplyDelete
Of course it's about virtue, you dumbass. And so we have the law that we do.ReplyDelete
Rape law is not about virtue, or men 'protecting women' it is about forceful assault, a deeply wounding hurting of another human being.ReplyDelete
A matter of law when it occurs that should be forcefully punished.
I don't know about the appropriate punishment.
It's a matter for the legislature to decide, in our democratic ways.
I'd vote for going back to the old ways.
Re: "chosen ones"ReplyDelete
So I'm an Honorary Jew?
"Bob" is obsessed w/women in a way not known to normal men.ReplyDelete
...shoulda been an English Prof.
Another Man Who Understood WomenReplyDelete
Just hit 'em upside the head when you're done, Bob, and they won't remember a thing about it.ReplyDelete
That's my Nancy Pelosi Helmut!ReplyDelete
doug wrote, "So I'm an Honorary Jew?"ReplyDelete
As trish would so aptly put it, "Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmno".
You could be an ornery Jew, if that helps.
"The American male would spare no severity in prosecution of those who robbed the female of her virtue."ReplyDelete
I even did it when someone robbed her Mangos!
Gosh, look at the time.ReplyDelete
All Jews are ornery at heart,ReplyDelete
'cept for the liberals.
The're just phoney all the way through.
Wed Oct 21, 04:55:00 PM EDTReplyDelete
Is that the long form of
"Gotta go" ?
I don't know who the rapist was that violated my daughter.ReplyDelete
I have tried to talk to her about it at various times.
I wanted to know, who did it?
She would not say, and didn't want to go to court.
She went through a deep depression.
She is back on the good road now.
I think she told the mother, my wife, who the violator was, but I'm not sure.
My wife even doesn't want to open up to me about it, so, after these years, I've dropped it, in respect for my daughter.
My daughters 'virtues' weren't violated, her rights were.
Her virtue is intact.
We're talking past each other, bob.ReplyDelete
Have a lovely evening.
She did say 'he smelled like whiskey'.ReplyDelete
It is best I don't know.
Miss T, you look striking today, I must say.
Thanks Bobal, I have a picture of the procedure here.
The story of your daughter is a horrible tragedy, Bobal, and you are absolutely right. No one can "take" your virtue, ever.
"I do not disagree with that, rufus, about a "Depression". But that does not move the responsibility for it."ReplyDelete
We'd be half way out of it if The Won had paid off the citizens instead of the crony crooks.
Responsibility for THAT lies squarely on Comrade Hussein's "shoulders."
(those nuby protruberances just below the floppy-eared pinhead)
I plead ignorance, not meanness, Bob, per usual.ReplyDelete
I don't think either the Bush or Obama administration wanted to pay off crony crooks Doug, but rather they ended up doing so because they were afraid of the cascading dominoes of the big institutions failing. All the big guys, some of them crooks, others just gettin' wealthy, were howling about the problems. AIG fails to pay out, well Goldman would be in the shitter, Goldman in the shitter, well, eventually, it may have reached your pocket too doug. That's how it was and is sold anyway. So much for risk and market purity...ReplyDelete
...and now the boyz on wall street don't want no more regulation, no, no, no - privatize the profits, socialize the cost - too big to fail!ReplyDelete
Repeat Japan Incs "mistake"ReplyDelete
expect different results.
Not crazy, just criminal.
But we ain't Japan, either:ReplyDelete
They were all prodigious savers to start with.
...US, prodigious debtors.
Interesting times ahead.
Goldman being in the shitter would be one of the best things that could happen to the country, longer term.ReplyDelete
This cannot be true! It is alleged that they were going to kill innocent shoppers because they were "unbelievers."ReplyDelete
Much of the 'accepted wisdom' is that Japan's mistake was that they didn't stimulate enough and fast enough...and they kept zombie banks alive too long.ReplyDelete
Interesting time ahead indeed. I'm afraid they are just kicking the can further down the road and not really solving things. On the other hand I am amazed at how unconnected money is from things real. Real as in gold, which doesn't really have much value anyway but rather there is quite a capacity, especially being the exchange currency, for the fed to print away. Heck, if everyone prints then relative FOREX values could remain the same. Mind you it is all on big confidence game in the end and once confidence disappears LOOKOUT! I haven't had much confidence in the US dollar for ages now but as long as the decline is slow and orderly...
The Doctors Are OutReplyDelete
Investors Business Daily
A recent IBD/TIPP Poll showed two-thirds of physicians opposing Congress'
proposed reforms, and warning of dire consequences. Now, a forum of prominent doctors
has amplified those concerns.
But the bodies who set misguided "guidelines" on what constitutes proper care, which
McCaughey's assemblage of doctors warned about, sounded chillingly similar to Palin's
Dr. Richard Amerling, a kidney specialist at Beth Israel Medical Center, cautioned
that giving "some kind of central committee" license to make doctor-patient decisions
"from on-high can harm thousands of people."
And he warned that it is "very hard
to pull back a guideline" once it has been set in place.
Already, in New York's heavily state-regulated health system,
"we have elites telling us how to practice"
with "significant financial conflicts of interest"
"a large percentage of guideline writers" have "strong industry ties."
...And authors of the guidelines pull in money giving lectures explaining the guidelines.
"Much of the 'accepted wisdom' is that Japan's mistake was that they didn't stimulate enough and fast enough..."ReplyDelete
But little Timmy's Caprice has yet to get out of the garage.
Yeah, I don't have the answers, that's for sure. On the one hand I say 'let the suckers fail' on the other I quake at the thought of the cascading failures and a big client of mine going 'ooops, we didn't get paid you don't get paid' and me going to my suppliers, and wife, and bank, ummmmm, gotta spot o trouble here.ReplyDelete
Socialist Supplier to the Mega Wealthy.
What do you sell, Ash,ReplyDelete
Charles Krauthammer in the Washington Post argues that the administration has been acting as if real international threats were only a joke. It is playing with fire, he says, and is acting like an adolescent who has yet to experience real pain.
Or a gambler with other people’s money.
Or, someone actually intent on losing – I discount this, but always keep it in mind. Denigration of the US and deflation of the US to just-another-nation is a kind of losing, too, and is *certainly* a cornerstone of Obama’s and the Democrat’s mindset.
Bay Area's balloon boy scaled heights of fameReplyDelete
Been there. Done that.
In 1964, Nowell was a skinny 11-year-old who volunteered to help launch a hot air balloon in Mill Valley. But when the balloon abruptly lifted off, his fingers became entangled in the rope. As a horrified crowd of 200 spectators watched, the sixth-grader from Tamalpais Valley Elementary School was hoisted 3,000 feet into the air.
"People still refer to me as the Balloon Boy,"
"My kids got pretty tired of it over the years.
I did get some interesting phone calls and e-mails last week.
Japan is the twilight zone for all economic theory.ReplyDelete
ALL Economic Theory.
Let's try this again. The man holds a PhD. His father is a professor. The man teaches at an Islamic prep-school. The man thought it was alright to kill innocent American shoppers because they were "unbelievers". And what about this guy should inspire confidence in Muslim humanism? Oh, the man, his family and friends live in......Massachusetts....NOT Afghanistan or Pakistan....Howdy, neighborReplyDelete
"Japan is the twilight zone for all economic theory."
Yes, that is today's orthodoxy, but it wasn't always so. No, Sir, just two decades ago vast swaths of forest were felled to provide the world with all the details of the "Japanese Miracle".
Hindsight is not just 20/20; hindsight has all the confidence of pointillism through the lens of Hubble.
The USD is trading mixed to firm as equity markets slide, crude prices fall below $79 a barrel and the BOJ's Nishimura warns that Japan's economy still faces significant risks.ReplyDelete
BOJ's Nishimura warns that risk remains high for the Japanese economy, must maintain monetary easing for sustained economic recovery.
Australia's September new vehicle sales rise 2.9%, Westpac leading index rises 1.7%.
It is best I don't know.ReplyDelete
Wed Oct 21, 05:06:00 PM EDT
I didn't intend at all to evoke that particular incident.
Change of PaceReplyDelete
Ash said: ...and now the boyz on wall street don't want no more regulation, no, no, no - privatize the profits, socialize the cost - too big to fail!ReplyDelete
Ash, even six out of ten Republicans are in favor of capping pay at firms which get bailout money. If I was Prez I'd say taking bailout money makes you a salaried federal employee and you get on the General Schedule Pay Scale.
Allen: Sir, just two decades ago vast swaths of forest were felled to provide the world with all the details of the "Japanese Miracle".ReplyDelete
Japan's "Lost Decade" stretches into two.
Is the US next?
(Is Obama communist?)
unfortunately capping pay levels is just simplistic politics that has little to do with systemic risk. Sorry, but much more stringent regulation of deposit taking financial institutions is needed. The insurance biz could you use some strict regulation too. If bigshot high rollers want to take on risk let 'em, just not with other peoples money. ok ok simplistic formulations but the gist of the idea is there.ReplyDelete
So there we were, picking our way between bars and enjoying the marvelous weather, when out drifted this much beloved anthem:ReplyDelete
Nice one, Trish!!ReplyDelete
I had that album.ReplyDelete
But if you were a true 80s girl you had the follow up, which included "Dr Heckle and Mr Jive"ReplyDelete
Cohen and DaliReplyDelete
Neither gave a second's thought to Madoff...still...
There is a nice pic, Miss T.ReplyDelete
I like that, not the other.
I don't like.
It is a true slander on the noble Idaho potato, which took two or three generations of Idaho farmers to create, plus the research of the two or three generations scientists who worked here.
Sam, did you make that row in the ocean, and if so, how did it go?ReplyDelete
You know, T, I didn't follow up.ReplyDelete
But I had this, too:
Bobal, the other one was supposed to be Nazi Pelosi made up as the TV Batman Joker.ReplyDelete
Trish, obviously I love Joan Jett.ReplyDelete
Especially when she sings:
Ah, Ah...now I don't hardly know her
But I think I could love her
Crimson and clover.
I like you a lot better.ReplyDelete
And this, which I got Wolfgang, the school bus driver, who loathed all Americans, to play mornings on the way to Patch Barracks:ReplyDelete
Golly Bobal, I'm always me, I just wanted you to smile.ReplyDelete
They're coming to America...you gotta see and hear that some summer evening on a screen of water 500 feet tall and 1700 feet wide, Grand Coulee Dam, red, blue, and green lasers. You walk across across the street from the hotel and sit in a park, the show's 37 minutes long, Miss F is still talking about it.ReplyDelete
As an old time alfalfa grower, I can understand the 'clover, over and over'.
But what is 'crimson', and why is that, 'over AND over'?
It is time for Rufus to check in.
The meeting between Iran and world powers was off to a 'good start,' said the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, and discussion of a nuclear-fuel swap would continue Tuesday.ReplyDelete
By Howard LaFranchi Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor / October 19, 2009
A deal for a nuclear-fuel swap between Iran and world powers, under consideration in Vienna Monday, would not solve the Iran nuclear crisis.
But it could buy some time for the international community to evaluate the nuclear program and to negotiate safeguards aimed at preventing Iran from building a nuclear bomb, nuclear and diplomatic experts say.
It's all about the monitoring regime
That's where the "end game" is.
The latest indication that costs will never be cut in Washington:
The Dems Latest Medicare Fix
The worst part? Stabenow is my senator.
"The two important issues here are the volume" of low-enriched uranium that Iran would agree to send out of the country, and "the timing," says the European diplomat. "We want this done before the end of the year."ReplyDelete
Crimson is the Wazoo Cougars rolling all over your Idaho clover, Bobal. DUH!ReplyDelete
I didn't even know there WAS a Rexburg, Idaho till I pulled over there to get a room after Yellowstone. Went driving around looking for a restaurant, Mormoniest town I ever saw outside of Utah. BYU was there, and I thought it was THE BYU but it was just an annex. It's actually a great little place, I could see living there and going to Yellowstone and Tetons and Denver all the time.ReplyDelete
Yep, I've done a couple of paddles since. Both very tame.
One in the dolphin sanctuary - kind of like a small sound off the open ocean with a bunch of inlets you can explore around in.
Another in a local river.
U.S., Iran move closer to nuclear dealReplyDelete
Regional security concerns and diplomacy clear a path to a multinational agreement in which Tehran would transfer its nuclear material abroad to be processed for medical purposes.
It also is an example of a scenario often touted by security experts and diplomats: Allow Iran to retain its coveted ability to enrich uranium while building in safeguards that the material would not be diverted to produce weapons.ReplyDelete
It could serve as a framework for a broader deal on Iran's nuclear program and possible rapprochement on other issues.
"Everybody who participated at the meeting was trying to help, trying to look to the future and not to the past, trying to heal the wounds that existed for many, many years," IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei told reporters in Vienna.
"I very much hope that people see the big picture, see that this agreement could open the way for a complete normalization of relations between Iran and the international community," said ElBaradei, a Nobel Peace Prize winner who steps down from his post Nov. 30 after 12 years.
U.S. officials view the draft agreement as a "very positive step," said Ian Kelly, a State Department spokesman. But he added that the administration is circulating it widely within the government to make sure there are no objections.
Kerry Becomes Global Adviser To ObamaReplyDelete
First advice: Never get out of the boat!"
ah, I think I got it now, bymeself, ah, the ladies secret is in that first line....ReplyDelete
you maybe missing something...
Coulee Dam light show. Been there, done that.ReplyDelete
"Grand Coulee Dam, red, blue, and green lasers."ReplyDelete
All the traveling out west we'd love to do, intend to do...It'll be awhile. We're going back to the Mothership.
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide, call me Deacon BluesReplyDelete
Sam said: Coulee Dam light show. Been there, done that.ReplyDelete
Yes, but do you have a Dry Falls T-shirt?
I stand up for the manly, even though that is a great song.ReplyDelete
Wish I were with you, Sam, floating an Australian river.
No put down, Miss T, but if I had to go to Final, seemingly, Death, I'd rather go with Sam, drifting down a river in Australia.ReplyDelete
But it is a truly great song.
It's just the difference between us.
There is a vas deferens between us Bobal.ReplyDelete
What I mean to say, is, my river hasn't curved that way yet.ReplyDelete
I don't know the experience of it curving that way.
I don't know the experience of it curving that way.ReplyDelete
Bobal, if you're curious, this website provides the answer.
The ending of all our death in this world of life is not sex, nor death, nor spirituality, but something entirely other, the Other.ReplyDelete
1 Cor 15:26, 55-55 "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death....So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory....O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?"ReplyDelete
In short, it is the Light, a Perpetual Beginining.ReplyDelete
Um. Hm. Hasn't the Bar appointed anyone to halt an obvious outbreak of weirdness, albeit amicable?ReplyDelete
(Nothing personal, you two. This really is no way to reach for 200 comments on a single thread.)
Fixing to pack it in anyway dear.ReplyDelete
And you, Bob, Must Turn Away From The Light. Because the Republic is hanging by a thread. Er. Something to that effect.ReplyDelete
Done Dry Falls, also. But no, no t, T.ReplyDelete
Done Dry FallsReplyDelete
Now there is a name that gets beyond all this sexual crap, and
to somethingful Sam
where is that?
Chinese Exports down Economy UP 8.9%ReplyDelete
They're building roads, and selling cars like crazy.
Where's what? Dry Falls?ReplyDelete
Three to go.
Miss T., I am coming to the point where I am gong to have to insist, and I mean INSIST, in my old aunt Agnes's sort of way, when she would INSIST in a Christian, kind sort of way, that someone actually take a kindness.ReplyDelete
I am getting to the point where I may have to INSIST, haven't done it yet, but I might, that you take up my offer of my free condo for a few days in February to see the Lionel Hampton Jazz Fest here.
You don't know how serious an issue such as this can be.
If one INSISTS, in Agnes's sort of way, then you best be on your best toes, your good behavior, with a damn good answer, if you turn me down,
With all due respect bob, if I were T, I would be afraid to take you up on the condo offer. :)ReplyDelete
And I do hope the conversation turns to something other than seafood.