“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."

Thursday, October 15, 2009

U.S. Army’s 10th Mountain Division protecting Chinese copper mine in Afghanistan.

What will he get from a Chinese copper mine in Afghanistan?

WASHINGTON, Oct. 14 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The following was released today by Hartco Strategies:

Geologist James R. Yeager, who served as Advisor to the Ministry of Mines in Afghanistan, will host a news conference to release his report on the Aynak Copper Tender in Logar Province which shows how a flawed process, the bias of a government official and lack of concern by U.S. officials led to China gaining a huge foothold in exploiting Afghanistan's natural resources.

DATE: Thursday, October 15, 2009

TIME: 1 p.m.

PLACE: National Press Club, Lisagor Room

The Honorable Don Ritter, Sc. D., served as Writing Project Coordinator for
this report. Ritter has 30 years experience with Afghanistan as a former
congressman, businessman and investor.

Contributors include former Minister of Mines Sediq and Mr. Ed Smith, former
head of the Afghanistan Recovery Group at the U.S. Embassy in Kabul.

James Yeager has over 30 years experience in geology and mining and has managed exploration and development projects in the United States, Mexico,Venezuela, Chile, Bolivia and Australia.

SOURCE Hartco Strategies

Larry Hart of Hartco Strategies, +1-202-262-1168 (mobile)


Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 2:01 PM

By Adrienne Mong, NBC News Producer

LOGAR PROVINCE, Afghanistan – Early on a recent morning we were driving to a shoot when an astonishing sight loomed up ahead of us. NBC News cameraman Steve O’Neill exclaimed, "It’s the Great Wall of China!"

The "wall" snaking before us, easily several miles long, was made of Hesco sandbags and circled a camp for Chinese workers. Though not permitted to enter the site, we could see rows and rows of neat white buildings with blue trim; the temporary structures looked exactly like the migrant workers’ housing at construction sites all across China.

Size apart, it was all somewhat unremarkable, except for the fact that we were in eastern Afghanistan.

"It's the Great Wall of China," said NBC cameraman Steve O'Neill when we saw the Hesco sandbags surrounding the Chinese workers camp at the Aynak copper mine in Afghanistan.

The Chinese workers – several hundred technicians – are part of a multibillion-dollar Chinese investment in Afghanistan’s largest-ever infrastructure project, the Aynak copper mine.

Discovered in 1974 but virtually dormant since the start of the Soviet War in 1979, the Aynak mine is believed to contain the world’s second-largest untapped copper deposits and could propel Afghanistan into the ranks of the world’s top 15 copper producers.

After wooing Afghan officials from as early as 2001, a Chinese mainland joint venture finally won the rights in 2007 to develop the site over 30 years. So far, it has sunk more than $4 billion into the project.

The joint venture – between majority partner China Metallurgical Group Corp. and Jiangxi Copper Corp. – expects production to begin by the end of 2011 with an initial annual output of 180,000 tons of copper that will eventually grow to 320,000 tons. China will have rights to half that output, which it needs to fuel its own massive economic growth.

But the mine is just outside Kabul, in Logar Province, where there has been heightened insurgent activity. Some 1,500 Afghan police are stationed on site with a new police barracks in the works. And although they say they are not attached to the project, the U.S. Army’s 10th Mountain Division occasionally sends units to patrol the area. China – of course, not being a member of NATO – has no troops on the ground in Afghanistan.

It’s this set-up that’s feeding a percolating debate about China’s role in Afghanistan.

Making the world safe for Chinese commerce. OOrah!


  1. Say hello to the "Smartest People in the World," I guess.

  2. Ka koo ka ra tcha

    Ka koo ka ra tcha

    Everybody up

    The "Conga Line" is forming on us.

  3. Say hello to the "Smartest People in the World," I guess...brought to you by the dumbest!

  4. I'm afraid "you ain't seen Nothin, Yet.

  5. Where have all the neocons gone? Seems this started with the free war in Iraq financed with Iraqi oil?

  6. They has "disappeared."

    Back to the holes they came from, I 'spose.

  7. And please spare us from more debate about Israel on one post. It is getting very very boring.

  8. Our best hope is to find the guy that put together that "Anbar Awakening," gig.

    The only guy in the Millenium that got something Right.

  9. When did "I" ever start one?

  10. It is madness conducted why the masses are eating cheetos watching Dancing With the Stars,
    and on Saturday night (ISYN) yours truly was yanked into guessed it, a conga line!

  11. Why don't you just delete the first comment on said subject, and all replies, thereafter.

    Maybe, promise them One thread per week to get it all out of their systems.

    It IS your Bar, you know?

  12. I am not diresting it to you-you but the collective you.

  13. I may do that. Just start deleting tedious boring repetitive drivel that no one wants to read anyway.

  14. And, while you're at it: If Bob, and MLD keep that up, I WANT VIDEOS, DAMMIT.

  15. That is entertainment, stress relief.

  16. Maybe we could convince MLD to set up a web cam.

  17. Evidently, the Only thing in Afghanistan worth getting, and the Chines snuck in an "Got it."

    We are Genii.

  18. Yeah, I believe we can do without one from Bob's end.

  19. I do hate to give up on laissez faire.

  20. Well, we might as well have a beer and enjoy the "Obama, and the Dems Show;" because we're going to wake up with one hell of a hangover in about six months to a year.

    It's going to be one of truly Epic Proportions.

  21. "Laissez-Faire" will make a comeback. We just have to get our craw-ful of this stuff, first.

  22. You can't come as close as the Pubs came to completely destroying the World's economy without some Price being extracted.

  23. This "price" is a very up close, and personal introduction to Total Socialist Rule.

  24. Probably, the two biggest conventional natural gas plays in the world are Russia, and Iran. Pootie poot is having wet dreams at the thought of putting together a Russia/Iran Nat Gas Cartel. He figures he would have Europe by the absolute, nonescapable gonad squeeze.

  25. Rig Counts

    U.S.: 10-9-09, 1041, +17 from 10-2-09, YOY -949 from 10-10-08

    Canada: 10-9-09, 239, +1 from 10-2-09, YOY -231 from 10-10-08

    Internat'l: Sept09, 986 +39 from Aug09, YOY -122 from Sep08

    Not surprising peakers' stats are all doom and gloom when there's YOY downturn in exploration like that, and slow recovery.

  26. This comment has been removed by the author.

  27. MLD and I are not going public.

    We're not that type, for any price.

    And, she hasn't even said yes yet.

    Use your imagination.

  28. To stay away from Israel, I can talk about the Idaho football team this year. We dang near beat the University of Washington, at Seattle too, and have cleaned up on everybody since.

    This is nothing short of amazing, we have been playing real strong on both offense and defense.

    We have two come from behind wins too. Some of the games really exciting.

    Really playing solid football, with only a couple of flubbs here and there, a fumble or two, an interception.

    This only ever happens once in a couple of decades or so.

    The stealhead run was marvelous this year, Fish and Game raising the allowed take to five a day, if you can believe it, boats all up and down the river, fishermen/women happy.

    I say fisherwomen cause we have lots of female fisherfolk around here.

    Wolf hunt a big success too, according to the paper. Little Red Riding Hood has gotten her revenge.

  29. According to the Dean of Student affairs, Bruce Pitman, “A number of fans were concerned that the uniforms were inappropriate. To be fair, there were a number of fans who liked them.” Well said.

    heh, poor old Bruce, he was my neighbor for many years, two doors down, when we were farming and lived on Lynn Street in Moscow.

    Really a good guy, the students are always causing trouble of one kind or another.

    Then the fans cause trouble, the regeants too, unending....

  30. The Russell Company policies march forward.

    But that is just so, 20th century.

  31. Please, let me know when I may post. Until then, I'm off to work.

    I have a memory of Wretchard going in this direction.

  32. Beijing’s Afghan Gamble

    Bottom line: China will find a way to benefit no matter what the United States does in Afghanistan. But it probably benefits more if we stay and add troops to the fight. The same goes for Russia. Because of continuing unrest in the Islamic southern tier of the former Soviet Union, Moscow has an interest in America stabilizing Afghanistan (though it would take a certain psychological pleasure from a humiliating American withdrawal).

    In nuts-and-bolts terms, if we stay in Afghanistan and eventually succeed, other countries will benefit more than we will. China, India and Russia are all Asian powers, geographically proximate to Afghanistan and better able, therefore, to garner practical advantages from any stability our armed forces would make possible.

    Everyone keeps saying that America is not an empire, but our military finds itself in the sort of situation that was mighty familiar to empires like that of ancient Rome and 19th-century Britain: struggling in a far-off corner of the world to exact revenge, to put down the fires of rebellion, and to restore civilized order. Meanwhile, other rising and resurgent powers wait patiently in the wings, free-riding on the public good we offer. This is exactly how an empire declines, by allowing others to take advantage of its own exertions.

  33. from Doug's 07:03:00

    "The problem is that while America is sacrificing its blood and treasure, the Chinese will reap the benefits."

    This ignores the benefits derived by Americans from the huge American debt held by China. Sometimes we get to play and sometimes we have to pay. That is how it works in the real world.

  34. PS:

    We can continue to emotively whine and castigate others for profiting from our stupidity, but that isn't really a viable strategy. It is easier, though, than getting off our butts and doing something to make the world a better place. Yes, better to curse the darkness than fumble looking for a light…and that’s what the government is for, anyhow…”And that’s the truth”…

  35. Please, let me know when I may post. Until then, I'm off to work.

    I have a memory of Wretchard going in this direction.

    Balance is beauty.

  36. Re: Balance is beauty.

    Patience is a virtue :) Some of us have had much practice.

  37. Maybe China should sent it's own troops to protect it's newly acquired assets...

    I can see a interesting development...

    From Nigeria to Afghanistan China is setting up "work" camps for locals with imported Chinese management...

    Things will get interesting as workers are beaten, abused and mistreated by their chinese masters...

    Fun being top dog eh?

  38. Blogger 2164th said...

    Maybe we could convince MLD to set up a web cam.

    The image comes to mind is that picture you posted of Bobal ages ago shagging a 352 lb. lady...


  39. MOSCOW (AP) - A top Russian security official says Moscow reserves the right to conduct pre-emptive nuclear strikes to safeguard the country against aggression on both a large and a local scale, according to a newspaper interview published Wednesday.

  40. Rufus:

    Evidently, the Only thing in Afghanistan worth getting, and the Chines snuck in an "Got it."

    You know the procedure of a drug dealer, get the public hooked on free samples, then reel 'em in. China is doing the free sample part now. Later, when they vote against us in the UN, we send a "retasking message" to the commander in the field, and suddenly nothing stands between the Taliban and that nice juicy moneymaker they got.

    2164th: Maybe we could convince MLD to set up a web cam.

    Baby steps. Maybe start with an actual portrait for an icon.

    Bobal: I say fisherwomen cause we have lots of female fisherfolk around here.

    Reel fisherwomen are very a-luring.

  41. Rufus: Probably, the two biggest conventional natural gas plays in the world are Russia, and Iran

    Natural gas prices are nominal, post 2008 bubble.

  42. WiO: MOSCOW (AP) - A top Russian security official says Moscow reserves the right to conduct pre-emptive nuclear strikes to safeguard the country

    This is actually an admission of weakness, they've let their conventional forces collapse, and all their eggs are in the nuclear basket, which they maintain for "superpower" bragging rights. The US has a full spectrum of military response.

  43. rufus wrote:

    "Why don't you just delete the first comment on said subject, and all replies, thereafter."

    Good move comrade, Red! That will quickly leave you and the rodent as the sole contributors…Dumb and Dumber…

    It will also relieve the barkeeps from running defense for your "big nose" and other ill-disguised racial/ethnic/religious slurs. Wretchard simply stimulated the reactionary riff-raff to move elsewhere…a good move, viewed in retrospect.

  44. I'm sure any scenario Deuce puts in place will apply equally to ALL commentors.

  45. T, don't bet the farm that nat gas will stay at these levels.

    These "shale" plays have caught everyone off guard. They Produce like crazy for the first year, but then they drop like a rock. Right now, we're working through that initial, 1st year "produce like crazy" stage.

    No one knows for sure where the price of NG will level out, but most think it's gotta be higher than where it's at now.

  46. As for any new "comment" regime: Let's face it, Deuce works his ass off, putting up multiple posts every day, doing the artwork, messing with "blogger," etc. If there's a topic that "bores him to tears," he surely has a right to request the commenters "give it a rest."

    I Promise I won't "start it."

  47. Gasoline inventories Down 5 Million Barrels.

    Oil just hit $76.00/Barrel.

    Chinese Car Sales were Up 84%, YOY, last month.

  48. Deuce may do with his property as he pleases, including posting rules of use and editing/expurgating at will.

    There is no question about the time, energy and talent invested in this site.

    There is also no question that Deuce and Whit are rarely shown the appreciation their work deserves.

    WiO and I are tough cookies. When I ask Ash and DR if they are Muslims or Muslim converts, I expect an answer. They give none. Instead, they obfuscate, using the language of the Muslim Brotherhood et al. This little game makes debate and examination impossible.

    For example, yesterday's lede on the Saudi Prince was ripe for entertaining discussion. Among other things, this Prince has changed the historic ground rules for international participation; i.e. he knowingly failed to speak to the Palestinian Project. This omission is of enormous possible import because it removes imaginary numbers from the equation. Yet, the thread went nowhere because the thread devolved into the usual irrational Jew baiting.

    There is a reason for the behavior of Ash and DR. Think about it.

  49. Let's talk about something else.

  50. Somebody come up with a coherent plan for Afghanistan.

  51. I tend not to discuss my religious beliefs, but take it for granted I am not a believer in the God of Abraham.

    When I ask questions, I know that there will be no answers, only vitriol and personal slanders in response.

    allen has a Guru that he does not believe, in that the Guru has written that the greatest source of antisemitism is Jews themselves.

    allen has not learned that from his mentor, yet. Or perhaps they have abandoned that part of the "teachings".

    But that Babs and that funny fellow that played "Rainman", Dustin Hoffman, are both considered anti-semitic, by the Guru, means we all have a cross to bear.

  52. Where are those videos?

    I don't care if she's Five hundred and fifty-two pounds.

  53. man of "misdirection" spews lies and half-truths, then expects those to become the baseline of our discussion of reality.

    Well, that is not going to stand unquestioned.

    Those questions then bring forth the vitriol. Quite amusing until it becomes tiresome.

    I let the readers decide who is more rational, not the "bug guy", with a tote board, in the clouds.

  54. How's the weather out there in Phoenix, Rat? Enough "Global Warming" for you?

  55. As rufus has written, allen is a source of anti-semitism.

    allen's Guru tends to agree, he wrote an entire article one the meme of how Jewish behaviors are the primary source of anti-Jewish feelings, in the United States.

    In that article the Guru singled out Dustin Hoffman, Babs, Howard Stern and a few other well known celebrities as the cause of ill feelings towards Jews. Because of their behaviors.

    I guess the same storyline would hold true with the Guru's main man in DC, Jack Abramoff, and Bernie Madoff as well.

  56. Weather finally broke, rufus. Though they say it'll hit 100 again, over the weekend.

    Sweet sougham really is the short term energy answer.

  57. Could be the source of 20 to 30% of our liquid fuel energy, with just two or three years worth of infrastructure development.

    Using the existing vehicle fleet.

  58. Those questions then bring forth the vitriol. Quite amusing until it becomes tiresome.

    Amusing to you and your little menage-a-trois, Rat; but at this point quite tiresome to most everyone else.

  59. Not to mention the "Holy men" that trade in human body parts.

  60. Then contribute, quirk. In a manner other than to criticize the contributions of others.

    You are more than capable of leading off a discussion on any subject that suits you.

  61. I don't care what it is, Rat, as long as it doesn't come from Saudi Arabia, or Russia.

  62. Russia has actually vaulted into being our number 3, or 4 supplier of oil. If I'm not mistaken they sold us about 800,000 barrels/day last month.

  63. I think they may be supplying us with more petroleum on a "Net" basis than is Mexico.

  64. If we return to the subject of the thread, and its' photo.

    Obviously that soldier is out of uniform. Especially in a forward combat area. No blouse, no headgear. Making him susceptible to injury from flying debris, rocks and dirt. As pictured.

    This photo illustrates the poor discipline in our line units, there in Afpakistan. As in the story of those soldiers based in an inappropriate locale, without fire support, good leadership is lacking.

  65. Well, rufus, the Tri-lateralist dream is becoming a reality then.

    A whirled so inter-connected and dependent cannot allow mega violence to disturb the peace.

    No country can stand alone, now.

  66. I noticed that photo. I had Two thoughts. Maybe, he was in the bunk when they got "hit." (Seems like he would have grabbed his helmet, though.)

    Or, maybe he's, actually, a "Contractor." I'm leaning toward the latter.

    Third possibility would be that it's a very "rear" area, and discipline got lax. I still think 2 is more likely.

  67. The "whirreled" is getting pretty "connected," alright.

    It can be good in a way, I guess; but it seems like it can be dangerous, also. Dangerous for our "freedom," that is.

  68. The "One Whirreleders" have been patient, and they caught a hell of a lucky break with Obama.

  69. The CBO's latest report projects the cost for the current proposed cap-and-trade legislation as a reduction of GNP of 0.25 to 0.75 percent in 2020 compared with what it would otherwise have been,and by 1 to 3.5 percent in 2050. In addition CBO projects "significant" job losses in the oil and gas industries.

    What the CBO doesn't point out is that GDP growth (percentage-wise) is already projected to be down over a good portion of that time period due to demographics.

    CBO and Cap-and-Trade

  70. If you're going to read One article this week Make it THIS ONE.

  71. This comment has been removed by the author.

  72. Algore must be asking himself "what was I thinking" when he decided to take questions on global warming at a journalist's seminar.

    (By the way, I've seen the video and they should have cut off the guy's mic. He kept throwing out questions and Gore kept side-stepping them. They were getting nowhere.)

    Gore Taking Questions on AGW? Not Quite.

  73. This is one area where I think the Big O's talking to other countries is worth it. The US spends 10 times what China does on the military, but we can't afford an escalation with that country over some minor incident that then escalates.

    Military Protocols: China and US

  74. Q, your "gas leaks" link isn't working.

  75. The Gorebull Warmeners are having a rough couple of months. He knew he was in "friendly territory;" that skeptic author must have slipped in under an assumed name.

  76. I agree, Q. I want us joined to the hip with China in every way possible.

    Will Rogers once said (and, I paraphrase:) No man is ever so innocently employed as when he's trying to make a buck.

    I think it applies to Nations, also.

  77. Sorry, Ruf. I've deleted the post.

    I tried to post an article directly from today's NYT, "Curbing Emissions by Sealing Gas Leaks". However, they block you from doing that somehow. I'll have to wait till it shows up in Realclearpolitics.

    The article itself refers to all the methane being pumped into the atmosphere daily by the 700000 wells in this country.

  78. Sample from Rufus's top article of the week:

    ...I think Archie Bunker is going to get in bed with Al Gore. In other words, I think you are going to see a political alliance between organized labour and the environmental movement much like Blue Green Alliance between the U.S. steel workers and the Sierra organization because all those carbon spewing industries have moved to places that are not the most efficient. They are just the cheapest.

    If you don't happen to subscribe to the Gorean myth that CO2 is poison, you might save your time and skip these pearls of wisdom.

    Note that cheapest doesn't translate into economic efficiency in this doomsayer's universe because the nasty carbon hasn't been properly penalized.

  79. Rat LABELS me with "man of misdirection" and then accuses me of lies, distortions, 1/2 truths and personal attacks...

    Seems to me that's calling the kettle black...

    Rat calls Israel "Isreal" and yet has no problems spelling every OTHER nation under the sun...

    Rat calls Israel a "colonial transplant of eastern europeans" a page taken from the hamas/fatah playbook.

    Rat has a top 50 greatest Jewish hit list of those "jews" taht control banks, money, industry and even the current president...

    Most every post that Rat makes in some form comes back to "jew baiting"... Rat aint new or even unique.. I have seen his type for years...

    There really is no use in trying to discuss anything with rat as he ALWAYS goes back to his jew hating/baiting ways..

    The only thing I can figure out is that somewhere, sometime, some jew crossed him and now he takes a page from the ron pauler's anti-semitic play book seeking to personally make jews out to be the anti-christ and israel to be an international criminal...

    rat's apparent hatred of all things "me" really is a wonderment... The power that Rat gives to the "jews" over his personal happiness or over the world is staggering..

    rat complains that I have a "victim" mentality and I wear the "holocaust" like a bad tie, for all to see and suffer for.. Nothing could be further from the truth... rat's irrational fear and hatred actually PROVES to me that as Jew, rather than being a victim, I will not apologize for living.. and living well at that....

    Rat proves to me that the ONLY jew rat likes are jews that whimper and beg. Sorry that dog aint hunting here...

    rat, really you need some prozac... or a job, or maybe you just need to get laid... but PLEASE check under the bed there maybe Joos hiding under there....

  80. The bodies of thousands of rabbits culled every year from the parks in Stockholm’s Kungsholmen neighbourhood are being used to fuel a heating plant in central Sweden.

    The decision to use Stockholm’s rabbit cadavers as bioenergy to warm Swedes living in Värmland doesn't sit well with Stockholm-based animal rights activists.

    “Those who support the culling of rabbits surely think it’s good to use the bodies for a good cause. But it feels like they’re trying to turn the animals into an industry rather than look at the main problem,” Anna Johannesson of Vilda kaniners värn (‘Society for the Protection of Wild Rabbits’) told the local Vårt Kungsholmen newspaper.

    Every year, the city of Stockholm kills off thousands of rabbits in an effort to protect trees and shrubbery in the city’s extensive network of parks and green space.

    According to Tommy Tuvunger with the Stockholm Traffic Office, the agency responsible for controlling the city’s rodent and wild animal population, part of the problem rests with delinquent pet owners who decide to release their rabbits into the city’s parks.

    “Many of the released rabbits are tame,” he told the newspaper.

    Animal control authorities employ a special rifle to shoot the excess rabbits, with most of the culling taking place at dawn when the animals peek out from their holes.

  81. Next thing we can expect is that they're eating them.

  82. Yeah, I bet if you sneaked out there and shot one for food they'd throw you in the pokey.

  83. I always thought rabbits made better "food" than "Kindling."

  84. Afghan Lunacy

    Those who came to Afghanistan with open eyes and open minds, and who are not afraid to jeopardize access or careers by reporting truth, will have clearly reported by early 2006 that we were losing ground here.

    Who are these “experts” who didn’t see this thing for what it was, early on? And now even in 2008, some people bring home messages that this place is not as bad as it really is. Yes, it’s true that we lost but one U.S. soldier to combat in Afghanistan in November of 2008, but we should not let this number confuse us.

    The Af-Pak war has great potential to devolve into something far worse than what we saw in Iraq. The “experts” who did not sound the alarm by at least 2006, that Afghanistan by then clearly was slipping through our fingers, are no more useful than a fire alarm with dead batteries.
    A fire alarm with dead batteries is far worse than merely useless. Let the counterinsurgency “experts” step forward, and show us that they put to writing several years ago what is today obvious. We need to know who to listen to, and who to ignore.

  85. I always thought rabbits made better "food" than "Kindling."

    Just like chicken.

  86. The "problem" is with an Eastern Europeon colony in the Middle East. Religion has nothing to do with my position. I'd feel the same way if it were the Lutherans that were abusing the natives, too.

  87. Ah, yes, The famous "Dominecker" Rabbit. Old memories.

  88. This comment has been removed by the author.

  89. While folks that claim a genetic superiority, well, they just have to be held to a higher standard than the normal cretin.

    It's only fair.

  90. The WaPo today reported on the first official study coming out of the government on the effectiveness of the stimulus program. It only represent the results for the first month of the program and the first $16 billion spent.

    Hopefully, the new data that comes out next month will provide better news on the effectiveness of the program than this preliminary data. Creating/saving 30,000 jobs (many of them temorary) at $533,333 a pop doesn't seem like such a good deal to me.

  91. DOW closes above 10,000.

    I didn't lose any money when it went down, haven't gained any on the current rise.

    Stockless in Idaho.

    I'd feel the same way if it were the Lutherans that were abusing the natives, too.

    The Lutherans did a lot of abusing of both Jews and Catholics in northern Europe.

    It was just my happenstance that I was born into a Lutheran family--none of us has really been what you might call 'real serious'
    about the sect. Dad went to church about twice in his whole life, my mumma told me 'you got to save yourself'. That was her advice.

    She sure was happy though, when I got married, in the oldest Lutheran Church in all of Idaho. Her idea. I just wanted to go to the courthouse. But mom was right. I have memories. It was fun, we had to clean it up, a little like Saint Francis, cleaned up that church in Italy, it hadn't been used in years. We had to clean the mouse turds out, put the door up straight, right the crucifix. We decorated it all up with local flowers, cattails and such. The wife looked so innocent in her blue dress, and that halo thing she wore on her head. Yum. Mom, she sure was all smiles that day.

    I had a full church for my wedding, but, it was a really small church.

    She told my wife, 'you're really in for it now' and my wife told me one of mom's friends told her to 'just lie back and relax'.

    This is good advice for any young bride.

    My Lute pastors have been good guys. We have a good Lutheran theologian now, Marcus Borg.

    I think if you read his writings, Jews, Christians, Catholic Christians, Native Americans, all, could agree on a lot of stuff.

    The last thing in his mind is sectism. Sectarianism.

    The Lutheran Church is just a part of a rainbow of religion here in America, a small part of the bow, with a very tainted past, from Europe, but we have some good pastors and at least one good theologian these days.

    I'll stick with it, because if it ever goes really stinky, I can fight it from inside.

    The Lutheran Church in America has really never gone totally stinky. The Lutheran Church in Europe sure did.

    I'll try to keep it from going stinky here.

  92. Well, quirk, that money went somewhere into the economy, providing liquidity. Perhaps job formation is not the best criteria to measure the effectiveness of the program by.

    Though it certainly is an important part of our total economic health.

    Reagan's reforms took years to positive show results. Even those must be tempered by factoring in the explosion of debt that funded the recovery, then.

    90 day management plans and results they provided are one of the reasons we are in this mess, seems to me.

  93. Rat, you are wrong there.

    As I understand it, they don't claim a genetic superiority.

    They claim an insight based on suffering, but I think this is also an old theme, and can be found in many traditions in the past, it is an old theme, as a search through comparitive religion will show.

    I think you are wrong in your whole outlook.

    The idea of this much abused people, who have finally got a minor grip back in their old homeland of the mideast, being the abusers, is really a sad, misplaced idea.

    These people were put through ovens.

    Even here in Moscow, I know of one guy, who was a county commissioner for a while, whose family died in the catastrophe of Europe.

    One of my friends asked him about it one time, he said. 'i just don't want to talk about it'

    So we respect that.

  94. heh, if anybody has been claiming a genetic superiority, it has been the whites, most especially the Germans, and nowadays, some of the black supremists.

    heh, what nonsense.

    We all know there are doofishes in every 'race' and every 'race' has its skilled people too.

    This current administration that we have thoughtlessly elected here in the USA has criminals galore, or all races, for instance.

    Excellent swine of all colors.

  95. Old habits are hard to break, ain't they guys?

    Come on, give you Host a break. Another 10 minutes and you're going to have another full-fledged shooting war going.

  96. "Stimulii" are goofy ideas, but it's something every administration feels (Is) compelled to do. They gotta be seen doing "something."

    The incredibly important thing was that, after damned near destroying the system, they were able to pull it together enough to Save the Banks. As bad as it galled, they really did have to do that. We're just damned lucky they were sucessful.

    Another Big Danger is Coming. There's a school of thought that our economy won't be able to handle oil going back to $100.00/barrel (right now, anyway.). That'll put the end products well above 4% of GDP. We'll see, fairly soon, I think.

  97. Ruf, to change the subject, we got a damned good football team here this year.

    Practically a once in a lifetime deal.

    Damn, I'm on Cloud Nine, and last year was the usual bummer.

    This resurrection came totally out of the blue.

    Everyone was wanting to fire the coach.

    We damned near beat the University of Washington.

    We are fire eaters this year, I'm tellin' ya.

    Let's talk football, it's not so embarrassing for me this year.

    I got something, so far, to brag about.

  98. Football? Whassat?

    Mississip went into the year ranked high (first time in about forever,) and have been steadily getting the heads handed to them.

    Bah, Humbug, Football.

    I'd rather watch a video of you and your 552 lb. gal friend. . . . . . . . uh, scatch that. Life isn't THAT bad, yet.

    Maybe, I'll just take a nap.

    Be Good.

    Don't make me get up, and come back in here.

  99. "Well, quirk, that money went somewhere into the economy, providing liquidity. Perhaps job formation is not the best criteria to measure the effectiveness of the program by."

    Agreed. However, the program was sold on the basis of creating (and later saving) jobs. The program should have been titled a "Survival" program rather than a "Stimulus" program. The good parts of it (in my opinion) are the money it is providing to the states for unemployment benefits, etc.

    As I mentioned, there will be additional info out next month which should point out the effects in the growth of government jobs and how many jobs were saved in teachers, cops, etc.

    In my opinion, the stimulus program is worthless when it comes to "creating" meaningful jobs. (Although, as I've said, it provided a necessary safety net.) I just feel that the Fed monetary actions were what saved us.

    In response to Rufus' comment, from a philosophical standpoint, I think we should have let the market decide which of the banks went under. However, as a stock holder and more importantly as a father, I'm kind of glad the Fed did what it did.

  100. Ruf, if I was a cheater, I'd cheat with MLD, I'll tell you that.

  101. We could talk about football, on the pillow, exhausted, spent.

  102. "Leftist Thug Manuel Zelaya Restored to Power in Honduras"

    The attached articles give the views of a couple of lawmakers who recently visited Hondurus (of course since these are from GOP lawmakers it is skewed to their views).

    You'll notice in the DeMint article he provides a link to the Law Library of Congress opinion on the constitutionality of how Zelaya was removed from office. It is also interesting to note that (at least as far as I know) the State Department has yet to release the rationale it's lawyers came up with to justify the US labelling Zelaya's ouster as a coup.

    DeMint's Views on Honduras

    More on Honduras

  103. If I don't get something out of this suckaroo, it looks like I've lost a hell of a lot of money!

    --riginal Message -----
    From: Susan R. Wilson
    To: 'Robert Peterson'
    Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 4:33 PM
    Subject: Update

    Hi Bob,

    I just wanted to let you know that I will be filing the applications for rezone and preliminary plat tomorrow. The filing fee for the rezone application is $585 and the filing fee for the preliminary plat application (for Community Development only) is $560. I will cover these preliminary fees and put them on your invoice. The preliminary plat has additional engineering fees of a flat $200 plus $25 per lot. Since you are looking at 110 lots, you can expect your engineering fees to be $2,950. I wasn't sure if Jack went through these fees with you or not, so I wanted to make sure you knew what they were. I think we can get the preliminary application started and the P&Z hearing scheduled with the payment of the Community Development fees ($1145). I'm not sure when they will require the engineering fees to be paid, but will let you know.

    You can add $4,095 in just preliminary city fees to your list of costs and expenses. . .

    Let me know if you have any questions or concerns.


    Susan R. Wilson
    Attorney at Law, PLLC
    208 S. Main St. Ste 2
    Moscow, ID 83843
    866-221-9397 (fx--- O)

  104. Honduras is going to bite Hillary, the DoS, and Obama. Truth will come out, sooner or later.

  105. I'm thinking Linear Lane, Teresita Trail, Deuce Drive, Rat Road, and ect.

    If it goes, I've got six roads to name, subject to council approval, of course.

  106. Christ, it's a bitch when a letter from a lawyer starts out with--

    Hi Bob,I just wanted to let you know...

    She is a real nice girl though, I'm glad I have her on my team.

    Well, we will see what happens, what else can I do?

  107. Rufus takes a nap.

    I return to the roof.

    Patching a leak that showed up during the last storm. While I was up there, I took a leak. Or, as my son corrects me, I leave a leak.

    Nothing like standing at the peak of your roof and pissing away your cares, taking note of course which way the wind blows.



    Martin Luther was a horny old goat, from what I heard. Stole a nun from her convent and together they raised a passel of kids, I think 8 of their own, the rest adopted. I lived for a while in Thallichtenberg (sp?), a quaint little hamlet in the shadow of an old ruined castle that was reputed to be a refuge of Luther. Gorgeous girls there, but very sheltered. We did our carousing elsewhere.

    Back to the roof.

  108. MLD, I need your first name, or something, to name a street after you, my darling.

  109. I think the Military Coup notion arose from the fact that the Military tossed Zelaya out of the Country.

  110. Careful posting your first and last name on the intertubes there anon/bobal - unsavory people can locate you if they wish...

  111. I think the Military Coup notion arose from the fact that the Military tossed Zelaya out of the Country.

    You're probably right, Ash. And as I recall, Rat was the first to point out that that was a huge mistake. Events may have played out far differently had they kept him on short leash in Honduras.

  112. When dad was the city attorney, and Roscoe his partner the Jew was Mayor, there were no fees like this.

    I know what I speak about.

    These assholes are just plain bloodsuckers.

  113. The kind of people Ash would vote for.

  114. I think the story is, Linear, that Martin hijacked, liberated, a nun he had his eyes on from a Catholic convent, plus three or four nuns more.

    Swiped them right outta there in some kind of wagon, I think.

    They did end up having, Mr and Mrs Martin, a real beavy of kids.

    Lutherans have always celebrated sex, marriage, that sort of thing.

    Just like the Jews.

    We don't live in caves by ourselves, meditating, not us Lutes.

    Martin said, the Rhine River is filled with Gods carp, therefore I eat.

    I'm not sure if he said it, but sure acted it, this woman has wonderful legs, that widen, therefore I plunge.

  115. The kind of people that make up middle America, bob.

    At least in the GOP States of Arizona and Idaho.

    One wonders what it must be like in CA or NY.

  116. Mrs. Martin by the way, seemed to be a great lady.

    She did a lot of help with the poor.

  117. In California or New York or Chicago, I'm certain I'd have to pass some money under a table to get this thing through.

    We are not that bad yet.

    These fees are ridiculous, though.

    In the old days, the city had a program called LID, local improvement district, where the city ponied up a little money to help the developer.

    That was when we were trying to grow the city.

    No so, these days.

  118. CHRIST this is all bullshit.

    Jack and I can engineer this thing for a few thousand bucks. Under five thousand.

    There just isn't that much to it.

    Now we got assholes like Ash sucking, sucking, sucking.


  119. Ash: Careful posting your first and last name on the intertubes there anon/bobal - unsavory people can locate you if they wish...

    That's why God invented the Second Amendment. Three disabling rounds, center of mass. THEN call 911. Be a shame to let all that shootin' practice at NAS Whidbey go to waste.

  120. The filing fee for the rezone application is $585

    (This is just sucking, no more, no less)

    the filing fee for the preliminary plat application (for Community Development only) is $560.

    (More sucking)

    The preliminary plat has additional engineering fees of a flat $200 plus $25 per lot. Since you are looking at 110 lots, you can expect your engineering fees to be $2,950.

    (I comment here that I have my own very good engineer, stamped by the State of Idaho, and the City doesn't need one, just another drone on the public give a way)

    the payment of the Community Development fees ($1145)

    (Horseshit, that's all it is.)

    You can add $4,095 in just preliminary city fees to your list of costs and expenses. . .

    And of course, I can add the attorneys fees.

    This is just the beginning.

    We got two P and Z meeting and the city council to go.

    Fuck Ash and everybody like him.

  121. I see the boobie is getting himself all wound up. Now, tell my Mr. Peterson what the fuck these fees have to do with me?

  122. If I win the Wild Card 2 lottery, I'm tellin' ya, I gonna tell these fuckers to go get fucked.

    I mean it.

  123. Cause you are the kind of arse would vote for this stuff, sucking off the productive as so many like you do.

    My engineer and I could build this project really cheep, and good too, he is a great engineer, and I would want to make it look nice, but we got to pay for the priviledge of making a nice development for people to live in.

    All these fees are bullshit, it's Jack's work that will be accepted in the end, he has built everything around here.

    He built the entire water works at Twin Falls, for example.

    Plus projects in Boise, and he is working on some clay development in east Latah county.

    Back in the old days, he was into the mica mining at Mica Mountain, which we failed with, due to market factors, but we tried, without any 'government' interference.

    Jack built Indian Hills Drive, A Street, Baker Street, all the stuff out south of town.

    All these fees are just sucking by the kind of people you seem to like so much.

    Go out and get a real job.

  124. boobie, you sure are one confused old man!

  125. Tell me, o young one, what exactly is gotten from these fees?

    If you can exactly tell me what is gotten from these fees, really tell me, I will listen to you.

    Until such time, I will remind you that even Rat and I have given up the name calling.

    I won't call you a sleezoid little sucker off the public purse any more.

  126. I'm just responding in kind boobie, errrr, if you prefer; Robert Peterson.

    As to the fees I have no idea what your County's financial position looks like (Well, I'd guess they are in the red these days) but I'd imagine they'd justify it by claiming that greedy little developers will run roughshod over the public interest if they don't regulate their actions.

  127. Patience is a virtue :) Some of us have had much practice.

    Allen, earlier in the day.

    I think this is true.

    I think a good saying is "the divine compassion is matched only by the divine patience."

  128. And if they do not charge these fees, to the developers, why then everyone's prerty taxes will go up, to cover the costs of effective government in a full grown city.

    I thought we had gone over all this before, bob.

    Did you come to terms with which of the property taxes will be applied after the rezoning, or is all of this preliminary to that?

  129. Fox reporting 'Stimulus' created or saved 30,000 jobs...$27 million dollars per job

    Obama To Enter Diplomatic Talks With Raging Wildfire

    (I hope that link works, the NAV is blocking it, must reflect poorly on the Commander in Chief)

  130. As to the fees I have no idea what your County's financial position looks like (Well, I'd guess they are in the red these days) but I'd imagine they'd justify it by claiming that greedy little developers will run roughshod over the public interest if they don't regulate their actions.

    I know you have no idea.

    Total bullshit.

    that greedy little developers will run roughshod

    Total bullshit, you expose yourself.

    Go jerk off in public.

  131. boobie, and you wonder why we pick on you and start calling you names heh heh.

  132. That's a good question, Rat.

    I think the answer is the government has a tendency to grow.

    I know Jack and I could make this developement a good one.

    He is a good engineer, great really, and I just want to do what makes sense with the rest of my life.

    It seems to me we have two levels here, one with Jack, I don't mind paying his charges, but the another one one top of that, for the city, and all these commissions, and charges.

    It's that level I think is wasting my money.

    The money is going from me, to them.

    I am aware of this, cause I have to write the checks.

    I get upset about that, you would too.

    What am I, or society, getting out of this transaction?

    Not much, from my own point of view, when I know Jack and I can build the development, and make it nice.

  133. Let me ask you, Ash, just what is it really that anyone has gotten out of these fees?

    What have we paid for, please?

    Exacty what have we paid for?

    Put the answer on a line.

    Something that Jack and I haven't already gone over, and been accepted with an Engineering Stamp From the State of Idaho?


  134. Jack is an engineer paid for by you looking out for your interests. The City wants someone to look out for their interests.

  135. I'm sure the City is also simply interested in raising some revenue.

  136. Nay, engineering is engineering.

    It is exactly the same.

    They have the same stamp.

    It is just growing government.

    And it is just theft.

    They have for instance now an ordinace where I have to give a certain part of my land to them for a park, which even the park guy says he can't handle, and they want the fees, to pay for their salaries.

    Pretty simple, really.

    Something you can understand, and get attuned to. And suck off of.

    The City wants someone to look out for their interests.

    Yes, their interest is to take money from me.

  137. I'm sure the City is also simply interested in raising some revenue.

    Now, Ash, I celebrate your intellect.

    You have figured it out.

  138. Tell us, bobal, how you feel about the Fish and Games folk taking fees for protecting the fish in the streams - just lining their pockets like those city officials?

  139. A really lame comeback, Potato Head, as might be expected.

    I think the Idaho Fish and Game Department is a hell of a waste of money.

    If you knew what I know know about how they mucked up the lakes in North Idaho, you'd agree with me.

    But of course you know not a thing about it.

  140. The mysis shrimp, shit hole, you ever heard of them?

  141. Well, bob, you are living the dream of your father's jewish Mayor. The town has grown into a real city, with a full time staff to prove it.

    You should be celebrating their success at bringing civilization to the prairie, not bemoaning the costs of the air conditioning.

  142. That you are moving ahead with this project, while bemoaning the small incedental fees involved, it makes me worry for your long term solvency, bob.

    There still will be no one to buy those lots, once they're legally plotted.

  143. This comment has been removed by the author.

  144. Or are you betting the farm on President Obama and his team? That they will institute policies that will provide for substantial economic recovery during the balance of his first term?

    You are betting on Team Obamamerica's success!?!?!

  145. That was a Funny Video, T. Onion Network News. Keep watch on that one.

  146. After all the vitriol, you're betting Obama will turn the housing market around, with your wallet full of the bankers cash?

    If so, you really are a Republican.

  147. Well, bob, you are living the dream of your father's jewish Mayor. The town has grown into a real city, with a full time staff to prove it.

    You should be celebrating their success at bringing civilization to the prairie, not bemoaning the costs of the air conditioning.

    Well, you might be right about some of this.

    The town has grown into a real city, and I have benefitted.

    I am entitled to make a real bitch however, cause we built this place, and I am think of building a house out on the farm, I'd like to say the hell with the city.

    We will probably end up in a condo in Moscow however.

    All your other posts seem pretty much nonsense to me.

    There still will be no one to buy those lots, once they're legally plotted.

    This tells me you know nothing, not even zero, about real estate in Moscow.

  148. What surprises me about Moscow is how many folks are coming here, escaping from the big cities.

    I'm not sure if I am really in favor of this, it is just happening.

  149. Bobal, escaping from what big cities? Spokane? Boise? Casper? (hee hee!)

  150. You are really an asshole Rat, always looking on the downside of life.

    A good girl like MLD wouldn't want to have anything to do with you. Ever.

  151. Just what I read on the internet. So there you have it, bob is betting the farm on the Obama economic recovery.

    After all the vitriol, he's really goin' with change.

    Good luck, amigo.
    Bueno suerte, friend

  152. Hey, T. even a place like Spokane looks big to me.

    I'm a small town guy.


  153. I don't dream of lesbians, bob.

    I'll leave that forbidden fruit to you and yours.

  154. Maybe Ms T will be enchanted by your daughter, as much as you are by Ms T.

    It'd make for an interesting visit.

    One worth writing about.

  155. bob is betting the farm on the Obama economic recovery.

    bob is betting the farm on the alfalfa, which has come in every year, for the last three generations.

    Like Trish said, there is something really wrong with you Rat.


  156. We interrupt this episode of the "As the Whirled Turns." with a news bulletin:
    Militants assault police compounds in Pakistan

    LAHORE, Pakistan – Islamist militants launched coordinated assaults on three police compounds in Pakistan's second largest city Thursday, the latest in a wave of attacks by insurgents bringing the war to the country's heartland ahead of an expected offensive against their Afghan border sanctuary.

    The dramatic escalation in violence appears to be an attempt by the Taliban- and al-Qaida-led insurgency to seize the initiative from the army and deliver a warning to the U.S.-backed civilian government: Attack us in South Waziristan and we will fight back in your cities.

    It also discredits Pakistani claims that the Taliban were on the ropes after this year's military campaign in the Swat Valley and the killing of their leader, Baitullah Mehsud, in a U.S. airstrike in August.

    The United States wants Pakistan's army to launch the operation in South Waziristan to root out militants who use the remote mountainous region as a base for attacks in Afghanistan, where the American war effort is faltering amid spiraling violence eight years after the invasion.

    Thursday's assaults in Lahore added to a sense of crisis in this nuclear-armed country, now shaken by five major attacks by the Islamic extremists in the last 10 days that have killed more than 150 people — including a 22-hour siege of army headquarters over the weekend.

  157. Well. bob, here you are moaning about spending a few grand, on a 110 lot development.
    Twenty, thirty bucks a lot?

    That is outlandish?

    You're a joke.
    Then you've said you have to borrow the money to do the preliminary build out.

    To do that, amigo, you're bettin' that Obama will be, already is, a success, bettin' with the banks money and your daughters' estate.

    And you bad mouth recreational gambling in Las Vegas.

  158. When the balloon goes up in the coming World War, it will be our Commander and Sheik Obama hiding in a box.

  159. The US wants the Paki Army in the mountains, a day late and a dollar short, seems from that release.

    If the insurgents have established themselves in the cities, then sweeping the mountains will be pointless. It is to late for raids to disrupt the insurgents, if they are not just raiding those cities.

  160. This comment has been removed by the author.

  161. There should be impact fees of at least $1.1 million, or $10,000 per lot. For schools, fire and other public infrastructure costs associated with those 110 lots.

    You're getting off cheap and bitchin' about it. Subsidized by the City or School District for schools, fire, health and police protections, betcha.

  162. DR: Maybe Ms T will be enchanted by your daughter, as much as you are by Ms T.

    You're the master baiter, DR, but you'll find this a dry hole.

  163. bob may wonder about the curve of your toes, the curve of the hips, the swelling of your breasts, but I couldn't give a shit, really.

  164. There should be impact fees of at least $1.1 million, or $10,000 per lot. For schools, fire and other public infrastructure costs associated with those 110 lots.

    Heh, you are a jealous guy Rat, go to bed now, you know not of what you speak.

    You acting like a fool.

    Now really, goodnight.

  165. Well, don't give a shit then.

    Goodnight, you moron.

  166. Oh, bob, impact fees are the norm, in most cities. You are the one that is the amateur developer, not me. I was licensed, by the State.

    I do know of the costs associated with developing raw land and how developers were long, and in Moscow, Idaho, still subsidized by the established residents where the development takes place.

    Those 110 new homes will strain the existing school, police, EMT, and fire systems. Just that many more folks that will call.

    The costs are actually higher than $10,000 per lot, but I'm not going to look for the study.

    The studies are legend, bob, in the city planning business.

    deuce can let us know if I'm far off the mark, it is a field of knowledge related to his own profession.

  167. bob couldn't go the night without resorting to name calling, even after he congratulated himself for restraint, earlier.

    The comedy club aspects of the Bar's entertainment are just getting better all the time.

  168. A man's son lost his leg in an accident at work. The people of the town came around to offer their condolences to the man, saying how tragic it was. But the man said, "It might be good, it might be bad, who's to say?" The townspeople could not believe that he wasn't sure it was a tragedy, and they called him a madman.

    A few years later, Israel attacked Iran's suspected nuclear enrichment sites by air, and Iran retaliated by sending two hundred thousand armed men across the Iraq frontier, resulting in a third major US war in the Middle-East. Despite sign-up bonuses of $50,000 cash, there was not enough heterosexual volunteers to fight in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran. So all the young men in the town were drafted by Obama into the Army, except for the man's son, because he had no leg.

    Obama mismanaged the war, naturally, and every one of the town's sons died in one battle or another, except for the man's crippled son who stayed home. The townspeople said nothing, but the man was revered as a sage from then on.

  169. How bad is it?

    By the numbers:

    Oct. 15 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. foreclosure filings climbed to a record in the third quarter as lenders seized more properties from delinquent borrowers, according to RealtyTrac Inc.

    A total of 937,840 homes received a default or auction notice or were repossessed by banks, a 23 percent increase from a year earlier, the Irvine, California-based seller of default data said today in a report. One out of every 136 U.S. households received a filing, the highest quarterly rate in records dating to January 2005.

    “The problem is prime loans going into foreclosure and people being underwater and losing their jobs,” Richard Green, director of the Lusk Center for Real Estate at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, said in an interview. “It’s a really bad number.”

    Mounting foreclosures mean U.S. home prices probably will resume falling, analysts from Amherst Securities Group LP in New York said Sept. 23. A “shadow inventory” of 7 million properties are in the foreclosure process or likely to be seized, up from 1.27 million in 2005, they said.

  170. OT, of course.

    Lately, my ability to wrap my mind around something new has decreased dramatically. Old age and all that.

    So, today I'm trying out the new version of Blogger. It's got a great toolbar, identical to Gmail's toolbar and it offers up some exiciting creative prospects for designing a blog.

    However, I find that I cannot place an embedded vid on a new post. Nor can I place an image within the editorial content where I want it to be.

    Has anyone here tried the new blogger and its info management system? I could use some help.

  171. How's the employment outlook where you're at, Bob?

    Are you able to self finance the development once you're ready to start moving dirt?

    What kind of reception are you getting at the bank? Red carpet treatment, I hope. The least they could do for a courageous local developer.

    Maybe you should hammer that gong with the permitting authorities. Local stimulus.

    Good luck, in any case.

  172. As for banging the gong, lineman, I'm afraid bob takes great pride in snubbing the permitting authorities and does not go to the meetings.
    He is then dismayed by the decisions made in his absence.

    But as he says, the conditions in Moscow, Idaho, they are unique in all of the Americas.

    According to Realty Track, Coeur D Alene, ID has 128 homes in pre-foreclosure sale, 14 bank or REO owned for sale.
    147 are trustee sales.
    In a total market of 663 homes.

    56% distressed sales opportunities in that market.

    But I don't know nothin'!

    bob knows it's time for another 110 lots at an average sales price of $65,000.

  173. We are counter cyclical here Linear.

    When things are bad 'out there' things are good 'in here'.

    We have record enrollment right now.

    I think the usual rules don't apply here.

    People seem to come cause it is a nice town, nice place to end your days.

    I really don't know what the absorbtion rate is, I do know good lots always seem to sell.

    I can't go any faster than the bank will let me anyway, and they are conservative bank.

    It will work, the fees are ridiculous though, all these application fees.

  174. Here are the graphs, looks like the average sale price in bob's market has dropped from $218,000 to $157,000.
    Average living area, 1,486 sq ft.

    Construction costs of $100 per foot are reasonable, here, so let's give ID a discount, say $80 per foot.
    Construction costs are at least $118,000,
    leaving $39,000 for bob's $65,000 lot.
    Phoenix construction costs would mean that the land for the new home would have to be free.

    110 times!

  175. the permitting authorities and does not go to the meetings.

    No I don't go to the meetings, that's what I pay the lawyer to do.

    "The permitting authorities" are just a bunch of local suckers who make a buck 'permitting' stuff.

    In Chicago it's called graft. Here we are not quite that bad yet.

    I haven't had to pay a city councilman, for instance.

  176. Well Rat, we build a road, then continue to grow alfalfa, and wait for somebody to show up and buy.

    Worked in the past, it will work again.

    You must be independently wealthy, to spend 24 hours a day blogging for the last however many years.

  177. Well bob, with 25% of the home market in trustee sales, that does not seem that counter cyclical, but right on the CA/NV trend line.

    But hey, they're just graphs and numbers, not taking folks feelings of confidence in President Obama economic management into consideration.

  178. Finally figured that out, have you, bob?

    Compound interest and dealing with farmers that wanted to subdivide their farms, made for an easy lifestyle.

    Just have to understand farmers.
    Which is none to hard.

    The way you do what you're talking about is to do a sale and lease back of the land from the developer.

    Most farmers fail when they try to do the development project themselves, time and again.
    They do not understand what folks are talking about, leaves them confused. Like you saying that what I write confuses you, bob.

    When it is clear as crystal to anyone in the business.

  179. It's not yesterday, anymore, bob.

    Betcha did not get the property tax conflict settled. Can't make a move, preemptively. have to go get the zoning, then appeal their tax re-assessment, after the fact.

    Your new Republican lawyer is settin' you up for some big fees. It'll be grand, in the 21st century!

  180. We are not Phoenix..

    I don't know for sure what the salary of the city engineer is here, but just to take a figure out of the air, say $80,000. Add to that all the money for the city engineering department, of which he is the head.

    When I am paying property taxes every year to support these folks, why am I charged a bunch of fees on top of paying for their salaries?

    Their normal work day should include looking over a few development plans, made up by an independent, state certified enginee. It's not that big a deal.

    But, them fees.

    It's a transfer of funds from me to them. You'd bitch too Rat if you were in my shoes.

    The answer about the property taxes hasn't come in yet, but I think she will prevail, the law being clear, the precedents set.

    If it goes the other way, I'll back right out, everybody else will too, and you won't have any development in Moscow.

    Just farmers growing alfalfa.

    Good thing about Idaho is, the laws are sane, made by a bunch of farmers in Boise. You don't want to make laws that tax everyone ought of existence, and that prohibit development.

  181. Your new Republican lawyer is settin' you up for some big fees.

    Nah, she isn't setting me up for anything.

    It's a problem with the current county commissioners, particularity one new democrat, and she is going to win.

    She is not setting me up for any fees, I actually offered to climb aboard her lawsuit as an interested pary, but she turned me down, thinking it unncecessary.

    She's honest, bright and up on her subjest. She will do ok.

    Sometime lawyers do set people up, but it is not happening in this case, which isn't even my case, it's Gene's case, he is paying the bill, and I'll get the benefit of an afirmative ruling if there is one.

  182. The thing about these fees is, all the politics is agin me.

    There will be more and more 'fees' but I got no political support, and no way out, really.

    Everyone seems to hate 'developers' and there are, around here, only maybe five or six of us at any one time.

    It's not a politically sustainable position I am in, so, I have to pay the damned fees, in the end.

    I'm a realist. It's the cost of doing business.

  183. Wouldn't be right for Chinese to send troop to guard guard this mine; wouldn't be right for US troop to die guarding this mine either.

    It's a dilemma, that's for sure.

  184. I believe that the photo of the top of this post is the 24th MEU of Marine Corps not a 10th mountain division of the US Army.

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