When making decisions in the heat of the moment, it is useful to remember and look at opinions and actions made during similar periods. That is the case in Iraq. Right now it seems like like everyone has a better idea. It is instructive to see how some of our would be "masters" thought a few short years ago. Howard Dean ran a presidential campaign in 2003. Dean television ads at the time sought to differentiate the former Vermont governor from his rivals based on his opposition to the Iraq war and "Democratic support" for it.
"Where did the Washington Democrats stand on the war?" the narrator of the Dean ad asks. "Dick Gephardt wrote the resolution to authorize war. John Kerry and John Edwards both voted for the war. Then Dick Gephardt voted to spend another $87 billion on Iraq." "Howard Dean has another view," the ad says.Today there is the discussion that we should not be getting involved in a religious civil war between Muslim sects.
The big Nato action in the nineties was when the US and Nato decided to intervene on the side of the Muslims in the Yugoslavia civil war. Ignorant or uninterested in the facts that the Muslims where every bit as bad and corrupt as the Serbs, the US led a campaign to get the the Serbs (Christians) out of Bosnia and later Kosovo, in support of the Muslims. Little note was made of the jihadiis and Mujahadden support for the Bosnian Muslims. Both sides in that civil war came to the same conclusion that they could not stand each other and no longer wished to share the same territory. Does that sound familiar? Now the fun part.
In 1995, who said this?
"After long and careful thought, and after several years of watching the gross atrocities committed by the Bosnian Serbs, I have reluctantly concluded that the efforts of the United Nations and NATO in Bosnia are a complete failure,"...""It is evident, however, that the cost in human lives in allowing this policy to continue is too great." Therefore, he continued, "I have reluctantly concluded that we must take unilateral action" in Bosnia to stop some of the worst genocide since World War II."That was none other than Howard Dean. He also had this to say:
"While I completely agree with you that no ground troops should be committed for other than humanitarian purposes in Bosnia," Dean said, one of the four steps he recommended Clinton take was to unilaterally "commit American air power to support the Bosnian government until the situation is stabilized and the civilian murders and atrocities by the Bosnian Serbs have been stopped."Another familiar ring, don't you think? There is the current outrage about phony WMD intelligence in Iraq.
In 2003, Bill Clinton was in Portugal and met with Portuguese Prime Minister Jose Manuel Durao Barroso. Barroso reported that Clinton told him he believed Iraq possessed WMD's.
"When Clinton was here recently he told me he was absolutely convinced, given his years in the White House and the access to privileged information which he had, that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction until the end of the Saddam regime," Durao Barroso told Portuguese cable news channel SIC Noticias.Clinton met with Durao Barroso on October 21, 2003 when he traveled to Lisbon to give a speech on globalization.
It is very easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment in emotional issues regarding national security. My personal objections are about the original necessity for and conduct of the Iraq war. That in itself is irrelevant. We are there now and Iraq is a mess. It never was a box of chocolates, but a lot of the mess has American fingerprints on it. The Democrats , Republicans, the military, the intelligence community all participated in the decision to proceed with the war. There is some very convenient self-servings laps of memory. It may have been irresponsible getting involved the way we did, but It will be unforgivable if we get out the wrong way.
A little footnote on our assistance to the Bosnian Muslims. This article appears in The Tehran Times.
Bosnians build school in Bam as token of friendship
BAM, Kerman Prov. (IRNA) – The deputy director of Bosnia’s Marhemat Charity Foundation, Haroun Imamovich, said on Monday that the foundation had established a school in the quake-hit city of Bam as a sign of the friendship between the people of Bosnia and Iran.
The remark was made while Imamovich inspected the school. He noted that the school has been built in response to the assistance given to the Bosnian people by the Iranian government during the Balkan wars of the 1990s.
"Despite being financially humble, the school will be a sign of friendship between the two nations to make them help each other during crises," he added.
Meanwhile, Bam governor, Majid Etemadi, said that construction of this school strengthens the relations between the people of two countries, adding that Muslims are bound to assist each other just as Iranians sympathize with Iraqi, Palestinian and Afghan people.
For his part, the head of Bam Education Department, Moussa Hafezabadi said, "About 85 percent progress has been made in the 10-class school project, which is being constructed on an area of 3,000 square meters. The classes of this school are ready and being currently used by pupils.
"Out of the 10 billion rials spent on the project, 6.8 billion rials was funded by Bosnians and the remaining was provided by the Iranian government," he added.
"It may have been irresponsible getting involved the way we did, but It will be unforgivable if we get out the wrong way."ReplyDelete
Of course it would.
What way would that be, pray tell?
That's your job, Trish; you tell us.ReplyDelete
How does that old song go? "There must be a Hundred Ways to leave your Lover?"ReplyDelete
Just drop off the Key, Lee?ReplyDelete
Just make a New Plan, Stan?
Just "Sneak out the Back," Jack?ReplyDelete
By Jove, I think we're onto something!ReplyDelete
Pakistan strikes Al Queda hideouts new Afghanistan BorderReplyDelete
Kills 25 - 30
Wotta strange freak'in world.
Well, rufus, I think the "wrong way" to leave is without a hearty handshake and smile of sincerity for the new owners. And without a framed certificate of some kind. Democracy Short Course Completion, say. And without some coupons for free drinks and a movie in Amman. That would be the "wrong way" to leave.ReplyDelete
Ah, Shit, You got me laughing, Trish. Good one. I, particularly, like the "Certificate."ReplyDelete
Of course, that "free drinks, and a movie" in Amman, might be more popular. At least, in most Sunni neighborhoods.ReplyDelete
More Tortilla News
Bottom line: Itsa Scam
Deuce, you are waaaay too kind to asshat Dean. Take the statements quoted in detail.ReplyDelete
"After long and careful thought, and after several years of watching the gross atrocities committed by the Bosnian Serbs,
Watching, what, on the MSM? Dean needed to think about it before deciding that Srebrenica was a debacle?
I have reluctantly concluded that the efforts of the United Nations and NATO in Bosnia are a complete failure,"
The UN was a complete failure, I guess internationalist commie Dean is reluctant to recognize that. NATO however only became involved in Bosnia in 1996 (IFOR), but Dean tars it with the same brush as the UN.
"It is evident, however, that the cost in human lives in allowing this policy to continue is too great."
(sarcasm) Good thing Clinton sent troops to prevent genocide in Rwanda the year before then, huh? And fled Somalia, which has remained a high death toll clusterfuck ever since.
"I have reluctantly concluded that we must take unilateral action
That man does not seem to like making conclusions. In the event action is Bosnia was justified by the UNSC, and conducted through NATO (I guess that is "we) to the applause of the world. But in Dean's World NATO had already failed.
in Bosnia to stop some of the worst genocide since World War II."
"Some of the worst". Not the worst? What was the worst, and what did Dean do to stop it? Was it Cambodia? What did Dean do during the Pol Pot years, not demonstrating in favor communism like so many lefty activists I hope?
"While I completely agree with you that no ground troops should be committed for other than humanitarian purposes in Bosnia,"
Humanitarian Dean? You want to stop genocide by being nice to people? Hadn't the UN already tried that? Hadn't the US tried that in Somalia only two years previously?
"commit American air power to support the Bosnian government until the situation is stabilized and the civilian murders and atrocities by the Bosnian Serbs have been stopped."
Dean the Genius. This was tested by Clinton 4 years later, air power was committed against the Serbs in Kosovo. The rate of ethnic cleansing greatly increased. Afterwards, while the guilty Serbian security forces had successfully withdrawn, the newly liberated Albanians happily took revenge on the innocent, and erected statues of Bil Clinton. The Bosnians war crimes record is cleaner only because they didn't have much opportunity. How that all gells with humanitarian ground forces is anyones guess.
Well, tortilla prices were up, Rufus;)ReplyDelete
This is far too stupid to deserve it's own post. Read it and weep:ReplyDelete
AP Exclusive: Military gear bound for Iran, China traced to Pentagon surplus sales
The Associated Press
Published: January 16, 2007
WASHINGTON: The U.S. military has sold forbidden equipment at least a half-dozen times to middlemen for countries — including Iran and China — who exploited security flaws in the Defense Department's surplus auctions. The sales include fighter jet parts and missile components.
In one case, federal investigators said, the contraband made it to Iran, a country President George W. Bush branded part of an "axis of evil."
In that instance, a Pakistani arms broker convicted of exporting U.S. missile parts to Iran resumed business after his release from prison. He purchased Chinook helicopter engine parts for Iran from a U.S. company that had bought them in a Pentagon surplus sale. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents, speaking on condition of anonymity, say those parts made it to Iran.
The surplus sales can operate like a supermarket for arms dealers.
"Right Item, Right Time, Right Place, Right Price, Every Time. Best Value Solutions for America's Warfighters," the Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service says on its Web site, calling itself "the place to obtain original U.S. Government surplus property."
I changed my mind. It is stupid enough to deserve it's own post.ReplyDelete