“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."

Wednesday, October 31, 2007

Elliot Spitzer Claims No Connection with Driver's License and Voting. Spitzer is a Liar.

"This has absolutely nothing to do with voting."

This is an application form to vote in New York State. By filling in this form and providing a New York State driver's license, you can participate in the direction and fate of The United States of America. Any illegal immigrant can now get a New York State driver's license. They can get on a plane in New York City and fly to Washington DC. They can now evade any internal security installed by the federal government. They can get a voter's registration card. Elliot Spitzer is also a liar of the first order. Look at the form for applying to vote in New York State and then read this transcript from CNN.

HETRY: One of your most vocal opponents has of course been right here in the walls of CNN, Lou Dobbs. He actually went as far last week as to call you an idiot before apologizing for saying that on the air.

Let's hear what he said last night.


I really don't care anymore about what this governor, this arrogant abuser of his office -- and the just absolute disdain with which he holds both the truth and the citizens of the state of New York. This man is sitting here putting together a three-tier system in which he is going to give voter registration privileges to people he knows are illegal?


CHETRY: Do illegal immigrants get voter registration privileges?

SPITZER: Look, I'm not going to demean myself by getting into a back and forth with somebody who on TV spews venom, hate and fundamental misinformation. Of course not. He knows it.

This has absolutely nothing to do with voting. This is something seven other states do for security.

The director of Homeland Security has said we improve security by knowing who is there. As I said, it's beneath me, it's beneath my office, to, in any way, involve myself with Lou Dobbs. And I think his knowing spread of venom is beneath CNN as well.

CHETRY: Now, so just that we're clear, though, if you're undocumented you will not be able to vote even if you do get this ID?

SPITZER: Of course not. Voting is limited to citizenship. This is getting a driver's license so we know who is driving so that fewer accidents and more security. Security is what we are about. Understand, we got into 9/11 because people wanted to ignore the problem. We're not ignoring the problem of the million people here in New York. We're confronting it.

Confronting it by saying they're here, let's know who they are, give them licenses, let us forge a system that permits us to improve security, which is precisely what the federal government has said we would do. Seven other states have done it.

The sort of racist venom that has underlined much of the criticism I think is shameful because what we are really talking about here is security and how we run our society.

CHETRY: Governor Spitzer, I'm glad you came on our show and had a chance to share your side. We appreciate it.

Thanks for being with us.


  1. This thing is blowing up in Spitzer's face and the Democrats have noticed. Hillary lost some forward momentum in the Philadelphia debate over this.

    Interestingly enough, some of the other Democratic candidates are noticing the polls as well. Not enough is being made of the voting issue, yet, but it will become a real issue at election time:

    "How much opposition is there against Governor Spitzer in New York? There is enough for a fatal political injury in a head-on collision with the citizens and voters.

    “Nearly three-quarters of voters – including 59% of Democrats – oppose the Governor’s plan to give driver’s licenses to undocumented aliens,” said Steven Greenberg, Siena New York Poll spokesman. “The voters’ message to the Governor is clear: ‘No, no, no.’

    “Nearly two-thirds of voters believe that the Governor’s proposal poses a national security risk, and two-thirds disagree with the argument that it will lower auto insurance costs. Even most Democrats are on the opposite side of the fence from the Governor on these questions. Voters from every region of New York overwhelmingly oppose Governor Spitzer on this issue,” Greenberg said.

    A half-dozen senior Democrats told the New York Post that Spitzer’s licensing plan is producing what one called “a mass exodus” away from the party’s candidates that may lead to unexpected losses in November’s local elections.

    They are also warning that growing voter unhappiness with Spitzer on licensing and other issues – illustrated in several recent polls – could carry into next year and end the Democrats’ hope of winning control of the GOP-dominated state Senate.

    “The driver’s-license issue is a killer for us in the suburbs,” a senior party strategist said.

    "The Nassau County Legislature is in danger, and so are the big Buffalo races," said a prominent elected Democrat official, referring to election battles to retain slim Democrat control in Nassau County and to win hotly-fought contests for County Executive and Clerk in Erie County.

    In the New York State Senate eight Democrats oppose the Spitzer plan, with Republicans taking a solid united stand against it.

    Senate Representatives Craig M. Johnson of Nassau County, Jeffrey D. Klein of Westchester and the Bronx, Carl Kruger of Brooklyn, Diane J. Savino of Brooklyn and Staten Island, William T. Stachowski from the Buffalo area, Andrea Stewart-Cousins of Westchester, Antoine M. Thompson from the Buffalo area and David J. Valesky from the Syracuse area are among the Democrats who have risen above partisanship out of concern for the increased risk to public safety and voter fraud.

    The Democrat-controlled Assembly also shows signs of dissent. Assemblywoman Aileen Gunther of Forestburgh, a fellow Democrat of Spitzer’s, voted against his plan. She had hoped the governor would have sought input from the Assembly and the residents before he announced his decision.

    She reasoned, “With no input from the legislature, nor from the residents, nor think tanks, nor county clerks; it was done unilaterally and I don’t think that is the way; we have open government and I don’t think that is part of the reform process.”

    A majority of the state County Clerks Association oppose the plan. Several say they will ignore it."

  2. I wonder when Il Presidente will invite Spitzer to La Casa Blanca and tell us all that the governor is "doing what's right for America."

    That photo op should be the kiss of death for the democrats in NY in '08.

    Glad to see that Spitzer is following the Stalinist playbook. Oppose illegal immigration and your a racist, hate-spewer. Unfortunate that he wasn't able to call Lou Dobbs "Hitler" since that is usually next in the tired string of non-responses to credible ideological challenges to stupid policies of the elite.

    Great defense

  3. This thing is blowing up in Spitzer's face and the Democrats have noticed. Hillary lost some forward momentum in the Philadelphia debate over this.

    The issue of Driver's licenses for illegals is the "gay marriage" of 2008. It sounds all warm and fuzzy and progressive, but 90% of Americans won't abide it.

  4. This comment has been removed by the author.

  5. Well, there is motor voter and there is legal driving.

    The two do not have to be connected, though in many locales they are.

    I beleive that the local governments will find themselves in legal limbo, by not offering driving licenses to all those driving.

    Like Emergency Room service and Education opportunities for the children. May well be unConstitutional to deny these people drivers licenses.
    Like abortions, there could well be a right to privacy while driving, as regards immigration status.

    It does say "people" not citizens, in the Constitution.

    Still no fence, it's been well over a year.

  6. GOP candidates could assure victory by promising a fence, and opposing this crap.

  7. A War We Are Still Losing

    The terrorists swept into Cananea in a convoy of 15 vehicles. They were on a brazen, murderous mission.

    They kidnapped seven policemen and two civilians. Outside town, they shot and killed four of the policemen and dumped their bodies in a park.

    Local police who had not been kidnapped deserted their posts to a man. "When the state police arrived, there was not a single municipal police officer," the local governor later told the Associated Press. "We had to take over the command. There wasn't anyone there. They had all left."

    The terrorist raid on Cananea, which took place on May 16, points to a monstrous strategic blunder by our government.

    More than six years have transpired since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. In the quest to make our nation safer, we have sent armies halfway around the world to occupy and attempt to create democracies in both Afghanistan and Iraq. But our government still has not secured our own border.

    In the years since 9/11, the drug cartels that trade in South American cocaine have found Mexico to be a more -- not less -- attractive route for smuggling their product into American cities and towns to sell to American kids.

  8. And you were wondering, doug, why the Mexican Federales needed armored vehicles.

    It's a powder keg, down there.
    Don't kid yourselves.

    The future of the United States is tied to Mexico, like Siamese twins, what with our oil addiction.

    We may not be the World, but we are, amigos, the Americas.
    Whether we want to be, or not.

    There is no going back, General Butler and the Marines have already cast the die.
    A hundred years ago.

  9. The important thing to realize, is that Mr Spitzer's fallback position, the "Plan" he is promoting now is the Federal Program.

    Gov. Eliot Spitzer’s plan to provide three kinds of driver’s licenses, two that would meet new federal security regulations and a third that would be available to illegal immigrants, has put New York on pace to be among the first states to adopt the federal identification program known as Real ID.
    Mr. Spitzer’s new position, announced on Saturday in Washington, places New York among a handful of states agreeing to implement a federal identification system that has faced intense opposition from civil libertarians, immigration advocates and many lawmakers. Concerns focus on privacy protection and the costs to states that implement the Real ID program.

    The program is supposed to be phased in nationally by 2013, but Mr. Spitzer wants to put his plan in place next year.

    “The costs involved in this program are by no means insignificant,” said Jim Harper, director of information policy studies at the Cato Institute, a libertarian policy group in Washington.

    The Department of Homeland Security puts the price of the program nationally at $23 billion over 10 years, while the National Governors Association estimates that the cost to states will exceed $11 billion in the first five years alone. Still, Congress appropriated just $40 million for start-up costs in 2006, leaving the burden of paying for most of the costs largely to the states.

    “There’s going to be an irreducible expense that falls on you, and that’s part of the shared responsibility,” the secretary of homeland security, Michael Chertoff, said in August at a meeting of the National Conference of State Legislatures.
    “What we’re going to have,” he said, “is a list of undocumented aliens, and there’s no way New York will be able to keep the federal government’s hands off this list and protect the people whose names are on the list.

    “Spitzer may have had the best of intentions at first,” Mr. Calabrese continued, “but he buckled to political pressure and it seems now that his good intentions have backfired.”

    Mr. Spitzer’s new plan would also create an even more secure type of license, which would be particularly useful for New Yorkers who frequently cross into Canada.

    So, Mr Spitzer is putting New York on board with the Federal Program, already approved.

    Joy of joys.

  10. Spinning the spin.
    But what does New York do with one million people whom the Federals have allowed into the US, but whom the Federals refuse to document or deport.

    While demanding local governments provide services to these undocumented residents.

    SPITZER: .... What we are trying to do, first of all, is address a problem that the federal government has created, which is that there are one million people here in New York state alone who are not here with proper documentation, but they're here.

    We want security. We want our roads to be safe, which is the initial impetus behind letting them get a license so we know who they are, where they are. They can get insurance, everybody is safer.

    Security experts agree with that premise. Seven other states do it. That is the initial objective.

    What we've tried to do is do it in a way that does not create a structure that makes them feel targeted, creates security. Now, what we did over the weekend was reach an agreement with the director of Homeland Security on a structure that he said would make the New York license among the most secure in the nation.

    That is what we are trying to do, provide security, documentation, know who is here. And what we have accomplished, I believe, is a compromise that does all of those things.

    CHETRY: Unfortunately, you're getting criticism from the other side now because the immigration advocates are saying that because this license that only illegals or undocumented would qualify for...

    SPITZER: No. Can I interrupt for one second? Because that is a fundamental misconception. This is a license. One would be what we would call a Real ID license...

    CHETRY: right.

    SPITZER: ... that would satisfy the federal Real ID statute.

    CHETRY: Which they can't qualify for if they're undocumented.

    SPITZER: That's right, because they -- but another license that I would get that would be a New York state license that everybody would qualify for with documentation, but it would not be limited to illegal immigrants at all. It would...

    CHETRY: Wait, hold on. You're saying you would get the one...

    SPITZER: Absolutely.

    CHETRY: ... that says right clearly on it, not for U.S. government use? That would be...


    SPITZER: No, no, no, no, no. It would say not valid for federal ID. And the reason is I have a passport, I have all sorts of other documentation.

    The other one might cost more. It will be different, more difficult to get.

    There will be two separate licenses. One that satisfies a federal Real ID statute, the other that doesn't. It would not be one license just for illegal immigrants.

    CHETRY: So you disagree with the assertion that, hey, if you can get a license that clears you to go to Canada, that clears you to travel with ease, why wouldn't you get that one, as opposed to the one where only illegals would qualify for?

    SPITZER: Many reasons. And that has been the record that has been established so far.

    A Real ID license that people will get if they want to have perhaps an easier time at an airport. Another one if you already have a passport. You will not need to pay the extra fees, et cetera. So, two separate licenses. Both valid, both legitimate.

    CHETRY: Now, critics are calling the plan confusing and a bureaucratic nightmare. Is it practical to try to implement...

    SPITZER: Sure it is.

    CHETRY: ... three different licenses?

    SPITZER: Sure it is.

    CHETRY: And do you know how much it will cost?

    SPITZER: It's really two. The third is for the Canadian border contact, something we call an enhanced driver license pursuant to the Western Hemisphere travel initiative, a very separate issue that is a very important step forward for the economy in Buffalo and along the Canadian border.

    Really two. One, if you want to satisfy Real ID, another if you don't.

    It is easy. DMV would have an easy time implementing this. The cost would be no greater than the cost of implementing Real ID anyway. And so that is going to be a federally imposed obligation on us, despite what we choose to do.

  11. Most of the links are protests!
    The new Oklahoma law will make it a felony to knowingly transport illegal aliens. It also creates state obstacles to hiring illegal aliens and requires state contractors to check the immigration status of workers.

    In addition, it requires proof of citizenship to receive certain government benefits. (c) UPI

  12. Greatest expose' in that video is GOP "EXPERTS" coming to Hillary's
    The Beltway 5th Column.

  13. What should New York do with those million undocumented people?
    Deport them to New Jersey, or force them across the Peace Bridge, into Canada?

    Or try to regularize those people.
    One way or the other.

    The Oklahoma solution not even proposed for New York. May prove illegal, regardless, limiting public services to the undocumented.

  14. careful rat, don't get all reasonable on us or Doug will spit his venom at you. Stick to the BUILD A FENCE meme and you'll be safe from the third rail.

  15. Criminal Chronicle

    On December 13, 2005, Hillary’s campaign treasurer Andrew Grossman, formally admitted in a settlement with the FEC that he had violated the Federal Election Law by hiding more than $720,000 of Paul’s contributions in the three false FEC reports he signed and filed! This raises the question of Grossman’s false testimony in the Rosen trial and his obstruction of the FBI investigation that led to Rosen’s indictment and trial!

  16. "limiting public services to the undocumented."
    Sure wouldn't want to cut welfare for illegals!
    Might result in a shortage of illegals!

  17. Welfare for the World!
    We are the World!
    Accept your Fate!

  18. Good not to call illegals illegals, tho, Very PC.

  19. Doesn't worry me.

    A friend of my daughter, whom she met at school, came to the US when he was five, with his mother.

    He's no more a Mexican than you are, ash. We've paid to educate him. He did not even realize he was an illegal, until he went to the Social Security office to get his legitimate number.
    Now all of his dreams revolve around "when I get a legit SS number". Quite sad, really.
    He's a really good kid, whom the DREAM Act would have regularized, to the benefit of all of US.
    Now he remains in limbo, still working at Dominos.

  20. Sen. Craig Uses Campaign Money For Defense
    Monday, October 29, 2007

    The Republican Idaho Senator who pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct after soliciting sex in an airport bathroom has used about $23,000 in campaign funds to pay for a Washington lawyer to represent him before the Senate Ethics Committee.

    Federal campaign finance laws prohibit legislators from using campaign money for expenses unrelated to their duties as an officeholder or candidate and Senator Larry Craig has for months argued that he shouldn’t be punished by the Senate because this case has nothing to do with his official acts as a lawmaker.

  21. The Dream act would have regularized plenty of criminals along with the good kids:
    What kind of "Solution" is that?
    Bad law in the name of good kids.

  22. Enforcement of existing law would solve the problem, but that's not perfect, so let's make the law worse!

  23. What is the law, that needs to be enforced, now?

    Which one of the myriad of laws that encompass US society.

    Because you're afraid of a few, we punish the many. They are already here, have been for years and the Federals DO NOT deport them, enmass.
    Is not, happening.
    Will not happen.

    Arizona has already paid for this kids' education, shouldn't we profit from it?

    The roads here are full of unlicensed and uninsured drivers. Maybe 20% of those on the road fill the unlicensed and unisured bill of fare. If arrested by the locals the Federals will not deport them.

  24. It sure is a lot easier to deal with it in the abstract with simple labels. Much easier to starve and then toss out an "illegal" then it is to do it to some nice person who is a friend of one of your kids. Real human beings are actually involved in all of this.

  25. Yes, Ash, the 40,000 KILLED by illegals WERE real people:
    To ME, but not to you.
    Simper on!

  26. Democrats for Sanity!

    "Kennedy?" bristled Parente, who said her constituents feel threatened by the influx of immigrants into their hospitals, schools and workplaces. "He's never gonna face what we have here."

    According to a recent Rasmussen Reports poll, 58 percent of Massachusetts residents believe that the United States should enforce border controls before considering the provisions Kennedy favors.

  27. yes Doug, that is true, there are real people and real tragedies on both sides of the equation.

  28. They don't HAVE to deport en mass, 'Rat:
    Just have workplace enforcement plus work permits not leading to citizenship.

  29. Quite true, always have been, real people.

    It is why the primary issue is to halt the influx, first and fore most. That is paramount, for a variety of security and cultural reasons.

    Then quantify the scale of the challenge within the US. I think there are closer to 20 million than to 12 million people in the illegal group.

    Then come to terms with the realities, in a myriad of ways.
    The Governments of both countries, US and Mexico are moving towards unification. As Mr Fox said on Larry King, towards a unified currency, first. Agreed to by he and Mr Bush.

    We are the Americas ...
    No doubt about that.

  30. But your black and white characterizations always seem to neglect to mention the REAL COSTS, focusing only on the feel good, Ash.

  31. There is no way to halt the influx while giving away preferences to Govt services, and w/o a fence.

  32. "Agreed to by he and Mr Bush. "
    Do they supersede the US Constitution?

  33. New laws, doug.

    I'm all in favor of regularization, always have been.

    Start with the children.
    Or those that were when they were brought here. The concept is sound, the particulars of the DREAM Act, I know little about.

    But something has to be done with these people, States cannot wait further decades for DC to lead US to a solution.
    Each State will come to it's own solution, but then those in Hawaii cannot complain of New York's method of compliance with Real ID.

    Which is why immigration control has been a Federal issue, which they have abandoned.

    Work placce immigration enforcement is illegal, the US has many contradictory laws.
    The decisions as to which to enforce, always political.

  34. Often, they do supercede the Constitution, doug.

    In real life.

    The "Right to Abortion"
    explemiflies the situation, as to Constitutionality.

    Declaration of War, vs Presidental Authority. I read it that only Congress can commit the US to War.

    Mr Cheney reads it quite differently.
    Same document, same words.

    The Constitution means what what one wants it to mean, and then what five old men out of nine agree to.

  35. Return of old law:
    Bracerro Program.
    California had a temporary set-up that worked, then it was abandoned for the new, improved, system of illegal slaves we have now.

  36. W plus Rudy would result in a Court that would once again respect the Constitution, as written.
    Don't want no King W, or
    Prince Waxman!

  37. What we have now is the worst of all possible options.

    Creating an underclass that is repugnent to a free society.

    That's the status que, quite exploitive of the illegal resident.

  38. Takes 5 years to get a green card!

  39. Attorney fees and other costs may add $5,000 or so to that cost, said Vance Winningham, another Oklahoma City immigration attorney with about 35 years of experience.

    That can be an obstacle, but it's not the biggest one, Stump said.

    The U.S. only grants 140,000 employment-based permits a year, and that includes spouses and children, he said. Preference categories favor highly skilled doctors, researchers, people with master's degrees and the like. And only 7.1 percent of the permits can be granted to persons from any specific country, Stump said.

    There is a huge backlog of applicants.

    So, even if the employer can show there is a shortage of U.S. workers available to fill a cook's job, there is still a 6

    year wait just to get a green card for Hispanics from Mexico, Stump said.

    But it gets worse.

  40. "Because they came here illegally, they cannot get a green card in the U.S.,” he said.

    "They would have to leave the U.S. and they are supposed to stay out 10 years before they can return unless they can obtain an extreme hardship waiver.”
    Enforcing annonymous illegal slaves for the greedy.

  41. The voter form for New York in the main post, is actually less demanding that what I would have to do in the Moscow City Election, where I would have to proved I lived there for thirty days, an Avista bill in my name being sufficient.

    We are living in chaos in this country.

  42. The Soxblogger, filling in for Hewitt says that in Minnesota, a license, student ID, or a friend swearing you are a citizen gives you the right to vote!
    Trashing the greatest gift ever bequeathed on any generation in human history.
    No recognition or respect for how truly blessed we were, nor how damned we will be once it's mere history.

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