COLLECTIVE MADNESS


“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."

Monday, June 14, 2010

Collateral Damage

Is NATO to Blame for Russia's Afghan Heroin Problem?

By SIMON SHUSTER / MOSCOW Simon Shuster / Moscow Mon Jun 14, 1:30 am ET

It had to be one of the weirdest displays the Russian president had ever seen. Laid out on a table were a mound of walnuts, a chess set, an old tire and an anatomically correct dummy - all stuffed with little baggies of imitation heroin. Titled "The Deadly Harvest," the exhibit was meant to show the clever ways smugglers have of getting Afghan heroin into Russia, which has become the world's largest consumer of opiates from Afghanistan since the U.S. began its war there in 2001. President Dmitry Medvedev stared at the objects and shook his head grimly. Behind him, wearing equally somber expressions, stood a group of Russian officials who would spend the day, June 9, lambasting the U.S. and NATO for not doing more to stop these little baggies from getting into the hands of Russia's youth.

On the international stage, Russia's Afghan heroin issue has become the country's favorite crusade, and has allowed Russia to enter a global debate about Afghanistan that had previously left it on the sidelines. Its basic point is a reasonable one: NATO has fueled drug production by refusing to destroy Afghan poppy fields, which it stopped doing last year in the hope of winning the support of opium farmers. Perhaps less reasonable is Russia's belief that its heroin problem is caused not by its porous borders or its abysmal treatment of addiction (methadone therapy is illegal in Russia) but by NATO's policy on drugs in Afghanistan. Yet that is what Russian officials contend, and this week they embarked on a campaign of coordinated fuming over the issue. (See pictures of Russia celebrating Victory Day.)

On June 7, Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov was in Singapore for an annual defense conference, and he used his turn at the lectern to berate NATO's tolerance of poppy crops. At a Central Asian security summit in Berlin the following day, the chief of Russia's anti-narcotics agency, Viktor Ivanov, compared NATO to Dr. Frankenstein, suggesting that its Afghan drug policy was "giving birth to a monster." Then on Wednesday and Thursday, the Kremlin's information agency, RIA Novosti, held a conference on the heroin issue in Moscow. The exhibit of smugglers' tricks was its main attraction, and at the podium, some of the Russian speakers threatened to punish the coalition if it didn't change its approach to Afghan poppies. "Further assistance to the coalition must be predicated upon a more active position in the fight against drug production in Afghanistan," Russia's envoy to NATO, Dmitry Rogozin, told the delegates, suggesting that NATO's vital supply route through Russia could be cut if the destruction of poppy fields didn't resume.

In its way, Russia is making an important point. Between 2005 and 2009, Afghanistan's yearly opium output jumped from 4,000 to 7,000 tons, and it now accounts for more than 90% of global supply, according to the United Nations. Russian state statistics say that opiates such as heroin and morphine kill around 30,000 Russians every year, three times more than the total number of Soviets killed during their 10-year war in Afghanistan in the 1980s. And the U.N. also says that the $65 billion earned every year from the sale of opiates partly goes to finance terrorists around the world, including the Taliban militants that the U.S. is fighting in Afghanistan. (See pictures of British soldiers in Afghanistan.)

But Russia is wrong to claim that NATO is ignoring the problem. NATO's March offensive in Marjah redoubled the crackdown on drug traffickers with the aim of cutting the Taliban off from its main source of funding, and U.N. data shows that Afghan opium production has fallen by about 15% since its peak in 2007. Russia insists that is not nearly enough, and has consistently offered the help of its own military alliance, the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO), in stemming the flow of drugs through Central Asia and the Caucasus.

Russia and the CSTO - which was founded in 2002 as Russia's attempt to balance against NATO's influence and whose seven members include Armenia, Belarus and a few Central Asian republics - are the only ones advocating the wholesale destruction of poppy crops as a solution. The livelihoods of millions of Afghans depend on opium farming, and at the RIA Novosti conference on Wednesday, M.K. Bhadrakumar, India's former ambassador to both Afghanistan and the Soviet Union, said poisoning the fields would only "stoke the fire of mass anger." And Prince Abdul Ali Seraj, who represents a coalition of Afghan tribes, in his speech called on the international community to "hand something of equal value to the farmers, and that way take the opium away from them." But the last word on the matter seemed to come on Wednesday from the U.S. ambassador to Russia, John Beyrle, who said that the coalition would not take Russia's advice about destroying opium harvests anytime soon. So Moscow's latest push in the debate has not gotten far. (See pictures on Russian human rights.)

Yet analysts say that for Russia's leadership, the act of pushing is an end in itself. "It is important for Russia to show that it will not be left at the margins of the Afghan issue," says Omar Nessar, head of the Institute for the Center of the Study of Modern Afghanistan in Moscow. He points out that sooner or later the Americans will leave, and Russia will be left to grapple with Iran over influence in Afghanistan. "This is the way it has chosen to make itself known, and indeed its criticism here is justified," Nessar says.

Natasha Kuhrt of the Department of War Studies at King's College in London says Moscow is also seeking to create points of contact between NATO and CSTO. So far the CSTO has not been taken very seriously in the arena of geopolitics, and Russia has been desperate to bring in new members and bolster its prestige.

To this end, "Russia needs to position itself as a competitor in the battle for Greater Central Asia," which includes Afghanistan, Kuhrt wrote in an essay published June 8 in the Russian Analytical Digest. "Russia would like to see the CSTO engage in 'global peacekeeping' as a way of legitimating this organization. In the best-case scenario, NATO would acknowledge the CSTO as a dialogue partner. Unfortunately NATO has been reluctant to accord such a role to Russia." (See pictures of the U.S. Marines' offensive in Afghanistan.)

NATO's attitude toward CSTO could help explain the venom with which Russia has gone after the alliance over its failure to destroy poppy crops, and its insistence that the CSTO could help stop the flow of Afghan drugs. It is not yet clear whether Russia will be given such a role in Afghanistan. But as the war drags on, similar footholds are likely to emerge, putting Russia in a better position to regain influence after the U.S. pulls out.



100 comments:

  1. Whit, how sweet of you to think of me on this murky Monday morning when you gave your blog post a title.

    I must say, though, that the diversity of your blog posts is very inviting.

    ReplyDelete
  2. DR on WiO's proposal to remove one of the Pillars of Islam: Nuke a city, to destroy a religion's icon.

    I don't know why WiO is so greedy and wants to take out two Pillars of Islam when Israel is already doing such a bang-up job blocking Turkey from fulfilling the Almsgiving Pillar.

    ReplyDelete
  3. One can suffer collateral mortality, like dolphins and tuna, or lose one's security to the bank, in which case it's a collateral loss, one must be careful with collateral damage.

    30,000 Russians a year-- Russian state statistics say that opiates such as heroin and morphine kill around 30,000 Russians every year, three times more than the total number of Soviets killed during their 10-year war in Afghanistan in the 1980s. With the boozing it's surprising there are any Russians left at all.

    Damned cat jumps through the window and wakes me up scratching on the door, nearly every morning at this time. Listening to the birds chieping is a collateral benefit.

    ReplyDelete
  4. We should never have given the Afghans those Stinger missiles. I recall a Russian general telling us, when we first went in, basically, have fun.

    I'm going back to bed for some collateral sleep.

    ReplyDelete
  5. It certainly sounds as if the Russians are parroting the US stance on drugs:

    "Further assistance to the coalition must be predicated upon a more active position in the fight against drug production in Afghanistan,"

    Replace Afghanistan insert Bolivia, Colombia, Mexico, et al. and the rhetoric is identical.

    Does the US blame itself for its' "Drug Problem", or does it put the responsibility and the "War" at the source?

    ReplyDelete
  6. ...looks like WiO and Anon have become the collateral damage of this blogs' anti-American, agitprop ME agenda (See VDH link for definition of Jew baiting)...

    ReplyDelete
  7. So, anyway, as I'm watching the Starbuck Show I notice a "Green" commercial.

    Almost a powerpoint presentation of rolling slides. Caught my attention, as each green backgrounded slide hit one of our pro-ethanol talking points. Almost to a "T".

    Growth Energy
    That's the moniker they've rallied to!
    Seems chill enough.
    Regardless, it's begun

    I hope Q gets to see it, after he hooks up with them Bears, north of Alaska.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Does it catch as many as Muslim baiting?

    ReplyDelete
  9. June 08, 2010
    New IEA Study Finds Fossil Fuel Subsidies Top $550 Billion Annually

    WASHINGTON, DC – Growth Energy, the coalition of U.S. ethanol supporters, issued the following statement in response to a new International Energy Agency study commissioned by G20 nations which found that in 2008, fossil fuel industries reaped $550 billion in subsidies, up from up from $342 billion in 2007.

    “Soaring subsidies for the oil and gas industries in foreign countries have led to a dangerous dependence on foreign oil that threatens our national security and that of nations around the globe,” said Tom Buis, Growth Energy CEO.

    “By investing in new clean technologies to speed the production of domestic, renewable energy sources like ethanol, we will not only enhance U.S. energy independence and clean our air but grow our economy by creating new green jobs here at home.”

    “Further, by employing the technological innovations that the U.S. uses today for agriculture and ethanol production, developing nations can benefit from both food and fuel production, helping them address critical energy supply concerns, spur economic growth and improve the quality of life of their citizens.”

    ReplyDelete
  10. But the last word on the matter seemed to come on Wednesday from the U.S. ambassador to Russia, John Beyrle, who said that the coalition would not take Russia's advice about destroying opium harvests anytime soon.

    Power and profit.
    Power and profit.

    Right out of the Russell & Company handbook.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Teresita said...
    DR on WiO's proposal to remove one of the Pillars of Islam: Nuke a city, to destroy a religion's icon.

    I don't know why WiO is so greedy and wants to take out two Pillars of Islam when Israel is already doing such a bang-up job blocking Turkey from fulfilling the Almsgiving Pillar.



    STOP LYING....

    I SUGGESTED TO NUKE THE BLACK ROCK...

    NOT THE CITY...

    YOU ARE A LIAR

    ReplyDelete
  12. T: I don't know why WiO is so greedy and wants to take out two Pillars of Islam when Israel is already doing such a bang-up job blocking Turkey from fulfilling the Almsgiving Pillar.



    NOTICE T'S GREAT CONCERN FOR HUMAN RIGHTS IN TURKEY?

    NOTE A PEEP ABOUT THE KURDS, CYPRUS OR THE ARMENIANS...

    HOW PATHETIC....

    ReplyDelete
  13. Where is the Rock, if not in a city?

    Surrounded by a whole mass of civilians. Women and children, old men and babies.

    This Rock does not exist in a vacuum. But in the middle of a cultural morass.

    Like saying that to nuke the Wailing Wall would not kill anyone that was not a combatant.

    Patently absurd.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Judenrein! ...at long last...Don't miss the nostalgic flick.

    Ahh...such nostalgia

    T, having lost your Jews, you will now have to invent some. That shouldn't be too hard for one with your malleable imagination.

    ReplyDelete
  15. A nuclear weapon, even a small one that can be fired from a howitzer, is not a sniper round.

    Oh no.

    It is, by design, a massive property damage and casualty producer.

    Not at all fit weaponry for a "surgical strike".

    But for killing those people that happen to be around the target, in a populated area, by the tens of thousands.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Given the filth and bilge that has passed muster here, WiO's comments make barely a ripple. No, it is not what was said; rather it was who did the saying.

    ...Echo Chamber...

    ReplyDelete
  17. The Black Stone (called الحجر الأسود al-Hajar-ul-Aswad in Arabic) is a Muslim relic, ...

    It is the eastern cornerstone of the Kaaba, the ancient sacred stone building towards which Muslims pray, in the center of the Grand Mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia.


    Mecca, Saudi Arabia has a population of 1.3 million souls.

    ReplyDelete
  18. desert rat said...
    Where is the Rock, if not in a city?

    Surrounded by a whole mass of civilians. Women and children, old men and babies.



    LOOK AT AN ACTUAL MAP...

    THE ACTUAL ROCK IN SMALL, WITHIN A HUGH EMPTY COMPLEX...

    Far less surrounded than the Twin Towers....


    It is possible to hit JUST the rock with a small tactical nuke without taking out the entire city...

    It's called GPS.....

    When America finally uses TACTICAL NUKES against Iran's nuke program, they will do the same.

    Taking out a specific small target and vaporizing it is NOT outside the realm of our abilities...

    To suggest taking out the ROCK is the same thing as NUKING a CITY? Is absurd...

    In the end...

    Changing Islam's 5 pillars is the issue..

    T and Rat hate Israel so much that they cannot understand this...

    T suggests that MY behavior is why G-d has punished the Jews for thousands of years and cursed us...

    ReplyDelete
  19. I have read almost every post made, here at the EB.

    Not once has anyone advocated the killing of Jewish folk.

    Not a single time.
    But many times there have been advocates for nuking Islamic civilians.

    To make a geopolitical point of one type or another.

    ReplyDelete
  20. A nuke is an area weapon, Kosher Pork Rind. Not target specific.

    GPS targeitng of an area weapon, you will still destroy a large area. Filled with civilians.

    In a religious "War" that exists only in your mind. Certainly not one that the US is involved in.

    ReplyDelete
  21. M28 120mm Atomic Battle Group Delivery System (Light)
    M151A1D 4x4 Tactical Transporter / Launcher
    'Davy Crockett'

    Okay - so what does all that mean? With very small battlefield atomic weapons like Davy Crockett the flash effects upon detonation shrink to insignificance - with prompt radiation effects dominating the characteristics of the blast - Davy Crockett isn't a weapon deployed for a spectacularly big bang - which tended to negate its original purpose.


    Sounds like a plan....


    The Kaaba is located in the center of a giant OPEN space, that no babies, women or old men live in...

    NUKE the ROCK...

    Change Islam forever...

    Or dont...

    But I guess every day when Moslems across the globe are using razor blades to slice off their daughters clits, as women are being stoned to death in moslems communities for kissing a boy, or choosing the one they wish to marry, it's all the Lesbians fault since they are silent...

    It's all the Gay & Lesbians fault for not standing up for decent treatment of women around the world...

    But dont ever let it be said they didnt stand strong against israel...

    ReplyDelete
  22. An aerial view of the Grand Mosque of Mecca

    You are just full of excrement Kosher Pork Rind.
    The civilians buildings are not even a stones throw away from that "Black Rock".
    It's right across the street.

    ReplyDelete
  23. desert rat said...
    Not once has anyone advocated the killing of Jewish folk.

    Not a single time.




    Nonsense..

    Rat, MOST of your anti-israel, anti-zionists and anti-jewish rants advocate the genocide of Jews..

    You specialize in Jew baiting and bullshit..

    Rat we all KNOW you advocate the murder of every Jew in the world... It's clear as day...

    Why do you think so many here think of you as a rodent? You advocate genocide of Israel and the Jews. You do it on a daily basis...

    A rose by any other name is still a rose...

    Rat you are no rose...

    You CLEARLY are a Jew hating, Israel hating, Zionist hating anti-semite...

    EVERY SINGLE JEWISH PERSON HERE UNDERSTANDS THIS.

    You can deny ti all you wish....

    Even a retarded, inbred, stupid Jew can clearly see your hatred....

    ReplyDelete
  24. Caught in another attempt at misdirection.

    ReplyDelete
  25. desert rat said...
    An aerial view of the Grand Mosque of Mecca

    You are just full of excrement Kosher Pork Rind.
    The civilians buildings are not even a stones throw away from that "Black Rock".
    It's right across the street.



    Name call me all you wish...

    You proved MY point...

    That ROCK can be taken out by a small nuke without touching anything around it....

    it's THOUSANDS of yards away those building...

    It's interesting the sliding scale of argument Rat and T take...

    1st it's a city of 1.4 million people, when that was proved to be a lie, now it's selected buildings a "stone's throw"

    Funny...

    What's a stone's throw? 3000 feet?

    Such bullshit rat...

    Rat. we all know you hate Jews, Israel and Zionists..

    We all know you admitted to be a criminal...

    We all know you admitted to murder in central america that you never were caught at.....

    To imply that the Kaaba is STONE'S THROW?

    SUCH A LIE..... But a criminal like you lies on an hourly basis....

    Look at your photo that you are so proud of....

    The target is all by it's lonesome...

    In a nice EMPTY stadium....

    Right in the center...

    A nice small tactical nuke would be perfect for that target....

    ReplyDelete
  26. The US, using nukes against Iran?

    Patently absurd.
    Bordering upon the far side of insanity.

    Ameros to doughnuts that the US Navy would splash any combat capable aircraft coming out of Saudi airspace, heading towards Iran.

    Doubt that the 'plan' for diverting around Iraq, through Turkish airspace is good to go, betting that option has been shelved, more than likely now, too.

    Those airstrips in Georgia, offline to the Israeli for the same reason, it requires transiting Turkey.

    No, as long as the Chinese need that Iranian oil, the US will assure it flows.
    That's our military's primary job.
    That, they do well.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Rat what a great picture you provided...

    You claim that innocent babies live a stone's throw from the black kaaba...

    Utter nonsense...

    But your photo did provide for more evidence that my idea (using a small nuke to vaporize the kaaba) is valid..

    NOTICE the fact that the said target is now surrounded by a multistory ring of concrete (which is EMPTY most of the year) So in fact the black rock, which sits INSIDE the square structure in the center of a great open plaza has a very nice protective shield from the rest of the city...

    Study that pic...

    There are no babies living within a stone's throw....

    I bet a small tactical nuke could take out the kaaba without destroying the city (as T and rat suggested)

    Thanks for proving my point Rat...

    Even when you try to discredit me, you prove my points....

    ReplyDelete
  28. I just now noticed that you've become Chief Cook and Bottle Washer, Whit.

    Should I extend congratulations or condolences?

    Can we expect a fine repast every Sunday morning? That would be quite thoughtful.



    So the young groom at the Saturday wedding is going AF Spec Ops? Good for him and I hope he finds it most rewarding.



    What the hell, Quirk. You up and leave indefinitely and no one's s'posed to worry?

    I had always hoped it would be Doug. Or Rat. Or Rufus.

    Well, no, I have on occasion entertained fantasies of you falling down a Guatemalan sinkhole or being gorily steamrolled.

    But rarely for more than a few weeks at a time.

    Bring back furry hats.

    ReplyDelete
  29. This circumambulating the Kaaba is kinda interesting. No matter what symbolism they have put to it, it seems to go back a ways, like to the chimps, who, in addition to twirling round and round, have been seen to go round an object of some sort, in a sort of thoughtless joie de vivre. There is the round dance, the merrie go round, the shimmer of the electron shell round the proton, the rounding on its axis, the earth round the sun, the moon the earth, the stately slow round of the galaxy itself, there's a round of golf, the Indy cars go round and round, and the Knights of the Round Table after supping would go out into the forest alone, where it is darkest, on their individual quest, the opposite of going round and round the Kaaba, and for this, I'll buy you a round of drinks for a round of applause.

    ReplyDelete
  30. WiO:I bet a small tactical nuke could take out the kaaba without destroying the city (as T and rat suggested)

    Every time WiO says nuke Mecca, I win. It's not the EB regulars I'm thinking about, but the casual surfers who come in here via Google, see that post, and leave in disgust, not even sticking around to see WiO mitigate it with a follow up post assuring us that it's only a tactical nuke, and even with the fallout it kicks up, it's only 1/3 of 1% of the world's Muslims who will die, TOPS.

    Every time Habu says nuke all the Arab capital cities, I win.

    Every time some Belmont Clubber says nuke the flotillas to "send a message" I win.

    Every time Nahncee says she hopes al-Qaeda takes out Berkeley next, I win.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Quirk is circumambulating the North Pole.

    ReplyDelete
  32. And don't drag your sorry ass back in here sounding like bob.

    ReplyDelete
  33. T:
    Every time WiO says nuke Mecca, I win.


    I NEVER SAID NULE MECCA...


    STOP LYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    I said NUKE the Kaaba...

    BE SPECIFIC....

    ReplyDelete
  34. T you deal in in lies and distortions....

    You win?

    Every time another crazy lesbian bashes Israel, women around the globe die..

    and you WIN?

    you are one crazy deluded person...

    ReplyDelete
  35. WiO: I said NUKE the Kaaba...

    Which is in downtown Mecca. I win.

    ReplyDelete
  36. If he goes the full Joe Campbell on us, I'm holding you personally responsible, bob.

    ReplyDelete
  37. WiO: That ROCK can be taken out by a small nuke without touching anything around it....

    When a nuclear weapon, no matter how small, detonates, it creates a fine dust of fission products and unfissioned uranium. When this is inhaled, it causes injury and death. Less than 100,000 people were killed by fire and blast at Hiroshima, but twice that many died later from fallout.

    When a nuclear fireball touches the ground, as it surely will in your proposed Kaaba strike, it vaporizes the bedrock and creates even more radioactive fallout.

    Any entity which nukes the Kaaba will earn the eternal hatred of 1 billion Muslims, even if they were good friends before, like Jordan, Kuwait, and Bahrain are today with respect to the United States. There aren't enough nukes in the world to prevent the retalation that would follow. Waves of Muslim women would hurl their babies at US troops merely to open a wedge for their men to attack.

    This lesson was brought to you from the stupid EB lesbian.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Teresita said...
    WiO: I said NUKE the Kaaba...

    Which is in downtown Mecca. I win.


    You are a nitwit...

    Downtown Mecca...

    So what?

    Your hatred of the EB is clear...

    the real question is WHY....

    You cant use reason or rational discourse...

    You have to lie and distort and exaggerate..

    You started out by claiming I was advocating the genocide of the people of arabia...

    Notice no apology for your lies and distortions, just a change in tactics...

    Now you somehow feel that even if the Kaaba could be vaporized and there were NO fallout or civilian deaths, as I ADVOCATED originally, you now claim the ISSUE is the fact that the ROCK is in a DOWNTOWN!!!

    Glory be!

    Mecca is a CITY...

    Big fucking deal....

    Like moslems dont attack others IN CITIES?

    Get a grip....

    Islam NEEDS to be REFORMED, oh you lost that argument as well.....

    One of the 5 pillars of Islam is making the Hajj

    Take out the Kaaba? Islam has to change...

    You are all worried it might piss off 1 billion moslems?

    and this is where the "stupid stupid lesbian" comment was generated...

    THE MOSLEM WORLD ALREADY HATES YOU..

    They hate and want to murder you already....

    Lesbians, Gays, Wiccans, Jews, Hindus and many more....

    Taking out the Kaaba would piss them off... So?

    They are already PISSED....

    Everytime you walk hand in hand with your FEMALE partner down a city street and a Moslem Man sees you? He is PISSED...

    The Islamic world gets pissed over cartoons... They get pissed over speeches, they get pissed over gays and lesbians daring to speak their minds and leading their innocent children astray...



    H

    ReplyDelete
  39. T: When a nuclear fireball touches the ground, as it surely will in your proposed Kaaba strike, it vaporizes the bedrock and creates even more radioactive fallout.

    Any entity which nukes the Kaaba will earn the eternal hatred of 1 billion Muslims, even if they were good friends before, like Jordan, Kuwait, and Bahrain are today with respect to the United States. There aren't enough nukes in the world to prevent the retalation that would follow. Waves of Muslim women would hurl their babies at US troops merely to open a wedge for their men to attack.

    This lesson was brought to you from the stupid EB lesbian.




    Coward and a Pussy

    ReplyDelete
  40. When a nuclear fireball touches the ground, as it surely will in your proposed Kaaba strike, it vaporizes the bedrock and creates even more radioactive fallout.

    Any entity which nukes the Kaaba will earn the eternal hatred of 1 billion Muslims, even if they were good friends before, like Jordan, Kuwait, and Bahrain are today with respect to the United States. There aren't enough nukes in the world to prevent the retalation that would follow. Waves of Muslim women would hurl their babies at US troops merely to open a wedge for their men to attack.

    This lesson was brought to you from the stupid EB lesbian.

    =========

    Bunker-busting nuclear weapons, also known as earth-penetrating weapons (EPW), are a type of nuclear weapon designed to penetrate into soil, rock, or concrete to deliver a nuclear warhead to a target. These weapons would be used to destroy hardened, underground military bunkers buried deep in the ground. In theory, the amount of radioactive nuclear fallout would be reduced from that of a standard, air-burst nuclear detonation because they would have relatively low explosive yield. However because such weapons necessarily come into contact with large amounts of earth-based debris, they may, under certain circumstances, still generate fallout. Warhead yield and weapon design have changed periodically throughout the history of the design of such weapons. In general, these weapons deliver more "useful" destruction because unlike air bursts, the energy yield does not dissipate into the air.

    ReplyDelete
  41. T: Any entity which nukes the Kaaba will earn the eternal hatred of 1 billion Muslims



    lolololololololol

    That's too funny.....

    i have already earned the ETERNAL HATRED OF 1 BILLION MUSLIMS...

    What will they do, double times Infinity hate me?????

    You are so full of shit it's to the point of funny...


    1 billion muslims already HATE you MS LESBIAN...

    and that's forever as well...

    lol

    And how do you really KNOW that taking out the rock will not change things...

    It could take 60, 200 or even 400 years, but to make a claim that 1 billion moslems will hate you eternally?

    that is a long time....

    ReplyDelete
  42. The W54 is small enough to be deployed as a SADM (Special Atomic Demolition Munition) or so called "Backpack Nuke". It was the closest thing the U.S. is known to have to developed to a so-called "suitcase bomb".

    Near as I can figure, from reading the related articles, the blast radius of the smallest nuke ever fielded, by US, the W54 is about .75 to 1 mile.

    Mecca A city of western Saudi Arabia near the coast of the Red Sea. ... Population (2007). - City, 1700000. - Density, 4200/km2

    Now go back and look at the photo of Mecca, looks like you'd kill about 10 to 20,000 civilians living within the blast radius, the most densely populated portion of Mecca, with a strike by a W54, the smallest nuke ever in our arsenal...

    ReplyDelete
  43. So which is it?

    the tool that i advocate or the concept?

    dont like using nukes?

    use a space based laser....

    fly in and kidnap the rock and put it on a space shuttle to the sun....

    Point is clear...

    If Islam is NOT reformed?

    500 million Muslims are going to die in major world warfare....

    I guess you want that...

    Mass genocide...

    Cause if Islam aint curbed or reformed?

    It's going to be real war and it's going to be bloody...

    ReplyDelete
  44. These guys say that the blast radius of the W54 was greater than the range of the delivery system, the Davy Crockett missile.

    the shoulder-launched nuke whose blast radius was slightly larger than its range. (Fire, duck and cover!)

    The range of the Davy Crockett, 1.7 miles.

    Gets the death toll, from the direct blast, up to the 50 to 60,000 range.

    ReplyDelete
  45. The point is clear, the US is not at "War with Islam".

    Anything but.

    We have founded Islamic Republics, Islam is an ally of the United States.

    Like it, or not.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Rat: Now go back and look at the photo of Mecca, looks like you'd kill about 10 to 20,000 civilians living within the blast radius, the most densely populated portion of Mecca, with a strike by a W54, the smallest nuke ever in our arsenal...


    Not a STONES THROW ANYMORE?

    lol

    Not 1.3 million dead anyone...

    Now your back pedaling...

    how funny....

    Just cause something doesnt exist in the public realm of information, doesnt mean there are not ways and means to make and use a device to the purpose of dispatching the Kaaba...

    Your selective use of information is comical...

    The Kaaba can be taken out...

    It can be targeted in the off season (11 months of the year)

    If you wish, the high standard of the IDF could be employed and warnings could be given for evacuation and the Kaaba still could be destroyed...

    But it's comical the energy Rat and T go thru to distort and misdirect my point...

    islam needs to be REFORMED...

    taking out the ability for the hajj is a way to force Islam to modernize....

    all of misdirection by rat and T still dont address the real and most important point....


    CHANGING ISLAM BEFORE WE HAVE A WORLD WIDE GENOCIDE....

    Because folks, that is where we are heading if Islam is not reformed..

    ReplyDelete
  47. "...a Pussy."

    Teresita responds, "You say that like it's a bad thing."

    ReplyDelete
  48. Islam is at war with the world....

    LIKE IT OR NOT.....

    America can and does stick it's head in the sand all it wishes...

    Islam is at war with us...

    ReplyDelete
  49. trish said...
    "...a Pussy."

    Teresita responds, "You say that like it's a bad thing."



    When combined with the term "coward" it is....

    Most women, when faced with an enemy seeking their children destruction are not pussies or cowards...

    T is a coward....

    She is worried that 1 billion moslems will hate her forever...

    Newsflash.... They already do...

    ReplyDelete
  50. Well, I guess there's no use trying to discuss this morning's post.

    Another post drug out into the weeds, and shot.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Abby Sunderlen's dad says he is broke - reality TV crews have been in their house for months

    Think how much higher the ratings would have been had Abby been lost at sea.

    Poor Mr. Sunderlen.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Go ahead and SAY IT, Rufus:

    Another thread highjacked by the GD Rat versus the Israel Lobby.

    ReplyDelete
  53. rufus said...
    Well, I guess there's no use trying to discuss this morning's post.

    Another post drug out into the weeds, and shot.



    T & Rat dont care about the innocent Russian babies born to addiction...

    They dont care about the millions of whores created, the millions of criminals created from addiction....

    They care that the Kaaba's destruction might hurt the Islamic apartheid city of Mecca, where people like you Rufus, and I are not allowed by law to even VISIT....

    ReplyDelete
  54. Doug said...
    Go ahead and SAY IT, Rufus:

    Another thread highjacked by the GD Rat versus the Israel Lobby.


    Actually T hijacked this tread...

    She shot the 1st volley......

    I merely responded with vigor...

    ReplyDelete
  55. and the conversation has nothing to do with Israel...

    It has everything to do with ISLAM...

    ReplyDelete
  56. We were on it, for a while, rufus, both today and yesterday.

    Some folk are just one note players.

    Power and Profit.
    The corrupting power of cash money.

    The history of Russell and Company and the trend lines its primary management members established within our Federal government.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Rat started off trying to discuss Whit's post. Read his first 5 Comments. It wasn't him that drug the thread out behind the outhouse.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Islam is an ally of the United States. We have founded two Islamic Republics in the last decade.


    We have spent over $! Trillion USD in the effort to build effective Islamic political entities. Even after spending $1 Trillion USD, tab is not closed, not by a long shot.

    There is the real pudding, taste it.

    That is the reality of the whirled, today.

    ReplyDelete
  59. When combined with the term "coward" it is....

    - What Is

    Have we reached that point so early in the day when any attempt at jocularity is resisted?

    ReplyDelete
  60. Governments Always use "Wars" as a distraction during time of populace dissatisfaction. Our government is no exception.

    The "surge" of troops into Afghanistan is, simply, the result of Obama's campaign rhetoric (Bush fought the wrong war, "I" will fight the "Right" War, "I" will kill Osama, etc.)

    Right now, the military's "job one" is to protect the oil supply. A corollary to that is to prop up the existing governments, and help protect them from fundamentalist populists.

    In order to do this we protect the opium trade. Try to keep Afghanistan together, to keep the anarchy from spreading to Pakistan, to keep it from spreading to the Kingdom of Saud.

    We have given rifles to our kids, and turned them out to the Drug Trade.

    We could give them welders, and put them to work building ethanol refineries, but Exxon wouldn't like it. And, they wouldn't have as much money to pay lobbyists, or to give money to Senators, and Presidential hopefuls. Big Oil's share prices would go down, and the Eastern Bankers, and share-traders would be unhappy as well.

    Advertising revenues, and circulatin would go down at the NY Times, and Wa Post.

    Me, and thee? We'd do great, but who cares about that?

    ReplyDelete
  61. WiO: Most women, when faced with an enemy seeking their children destruction are not pussies or cowards...T is a coward....

    That's not worth a reply, other than to mention that I'm a veteran of the Reagan Navy and a card-carrying American Legionnaire, while WiO thinks it's honorable and brave to nuke a religious shrine in the heart of a major city and to defend an economic blockade which turns Gaza into the world's largest open-air prison.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Want to solve alot of the world's problems?

    Make oil irrelevant

    I have been preaching this for decades...

    Time to use everything in our quiver to get off overseas supply of energy...

    But Obama aint the one we've been waiting for...

    ReplyDelete
  63. Teresita said...
    WiO: Most women, when faced with an enemy seeking their children destruction are not pussies or cowards...T is a coward....

    That's not worth a reply, other than to mention that I'm a veteran of the Reagan Navy and a card-carrying American Legionnaire


    I thank you for your service way back when, now you're a coward


    T, while WiO thinks it's honorable and brave to nuke a religious shrine in the heart of a major city


    Honorable? naw... It's about SURVIVAL


    T: and to defend an economic blockade which turns Gaza into the world's largest open-air prison.

    Now that's just nonsense...

    Do you really take yourself seriously? Come on...

    Open-air prison?

    Talk about Sudan, the Congo....

    But Gaza is a load of crap...

    ReplyDelete
  64. WiO,

    I will sign off with these two links, wishing you well. As Anon posited some time ago, you are playing against the house and, moreover, the deck is stacked.

    As even a short review would prove, were it not for the animus harbored against Israel/Zionism/Jews, those on this site would have little to say beyond exfoliatation and utopianism.


    Shalolm, my friend.

    The state we're in

    Who Gets the Benefit of the Doubt?


    PS: Good luck, Deuce, wherever you are and thanks for your years of service to this site.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Allen: As Anon posited some time ago, you are playing against the house and, moreover, the deck is stacked. As even a short review would prove, were it not for the animus harbored against Israel/Zionism/Jews, those on this site would have little to say beyond exfoliatation and utopianism.

    I'll call bullshit every time someone calls for nuclear attacks against civilians, I don't care whose side they're on or how careful they promise to be. Fallout doesn't observe boundaries between military sites and residential areas. If that's what you're calling a "stacked deck" these days then I'll take it.

    ReplyDelete
  66. T: I'll call bullshit every time someone calls for nuclear attacks against civilians, I don't care whose side they're on or how careful they promise to be. Fallout doesn't observe boundaries between military sites and residential areas. If that's what you're calling a "stacked deck" these days then I'll take it.


    You are full of shit....

    I call for the nuking of a ROCK, to which you made into a mass genocide...

    Dont want to NUKE it? Use a laser.. Steal it and ship it to the moon...

    But your point is full of shit...

    ReplyDelete
  67. Rock Derangement Syndrome?


    You're sick, WIO. You need help.

    You're advocating the indiscriminate killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children because of your hatred for a rock?

    ReplyDelete
  68. If he goes the full Joe Campbell on us, I'm holding you personally responsible, bob.


    Quirk is seeking

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sila/index.html

    Sila, out there on the ice, alone...

    ReplyDelete
  69. rufus said...
    Rock Derangement Syndrome?

    You're sick, WIO. You need help.

    You're advocating the indiscriminate killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children because of your hatred for a rock?


    NOPE...

    I guess you cant read either...

    I advocate the nuking of the rock...

    Do it in off season, send leaflets telling the innocents to leave...

    But I do advocate the murder of the ROCK...

    man you folks are DEAF, DUMB and BLIND...

    ReplyDelete
  70. Let's see the silence of the Rat, Rufus and T crowd on the daily screeches of Iran threatening to NUKE ISrael...

    The Silence of the 3 when it comes to the rockets that are still fired from gaza into israel at innocent babies, women and children...

    The Silence for practically every other human rights issue in the entire world...

    But I advocate the destruction of a ROCK????

    you three lose it?

    you are a bunch of fucktards....

    ReplyDelete
  71. I pray for Sharia to be enforced on T and her special girl friend...

    I pray for some illegal to trespass on Rat's squatted lands...

    And I pray for Rufus to learn how evil those Islamists are even thou he doesnt "give a shit", and after those evil islamists do whatever they do, I hope he finds himself in a nice hospital under the care of some Israelis....

    ReplyDelete
  72. A rock that is a sacred place for worship, it's wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  73. MeLoDy said...
    A rock that is a sacred place for worship, it's wrong.




    Then I guess you will learn to submit to Islam and be under their control...

    Hope you love enslavement...

    ReplyDelete
  74. "Quirk is seeking..."

    That's right...Naked and alone and out on the ice. Where the world's supply of sila is kept.

    Gotta be one cold bastard.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Bobbo

    This is you know who posting.

    The Ruskies are moving smooth and fast, heading south, with one quick stop at Senor Frog’s in Tijuana for a couple cervezas.

    Currently, west of La Taqua, on the Colombia (w/ two boobs)/Ecuador border well into the western Amazonian rainforest. Skirting the equator at longitude 75 w.

    I’ve been moving stealthily in my gilly suit, skirting indigenous tribes and the occasional FARC patrols, following the illusive Ruskies into this green hell. I’ve spend hours laying in the primordial muck left from primeval times when the Amazon River was part of the proto-Congo river system in Gondwana. I’ve lain prone under the windlass canopy of trees, in cloudy fogs, moisture hanging in air, air humid and heavy with oxygen, in windless silence broken only by the sound of the scarlet macaw and the howler monkeys, sweat pouring from every pore, drawn into the stimulating eroticism of the forest, drinking in its voluptuous lasciviousness, it’s erogenous earthiness…it’s prurient …it’s dirty, filthy…a…it’s….oh…rising in the loins to …exciting, wanton, I…I…ohhh…

    Anyway, I am now in a dugout canoe heading down the Putumayo. Earlier today, while following the snowmobile tracks (yea that’s right, I’m rethinking my earlier estimate, these guys may be Polish rather than Russian), anyway while following the tracks, I came upon these guys burning 7 or 8 bundles of hay (alfalfa?). One can readily recognize the dire implications for the oil spill. This could be much bigger than I thought.

    At any rate, I am now trying to use the river to get ahead of them and prepare an ambush.

    I am now approaching an area of rapids and the water is moving faster. As the rapids start…wait…that’s not rapids, that’s waterfa………shit!........



    .

    ReplyDelete
  76. There should be no sacred place for worship. The center is everywhere, the circumference nowhere. Quirk is at the North Pole. For Black Elk it was Harney Peak, South Dakota. For me, the Wenaha.

    I'm not sure nuking the black rock would actually do the job, however. I don't know enough about the psychology of Islam. It would piss them off, for sure.

    Not that they aren't already, always seem to be, about something. Just read JihadWatch every day. We do have a real problem, with the moslems, practically every conflict in the world involves them.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Quirk maybe the rooskies are heading to Mecca you might be able to head 'em off but why are you skirting the indigenous tribes after all those women have made it plain as day they don't want no stinkin' skirts. Respect their tribal customs or your shrunken head might end up on a pole your body pierced by poisons darts. No wonder you're hiding in the murk, Quirk. Be careful, we need your vote in November.

    ReplyDelete
  78. "Quirk is at the..."

    ...bottom of a waterfall.

    Tsk. Tsk.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Quirkest since you're in the area you might give some thought to heading to Machu Picchu and hide out in the ruins there my realtor lady said it was great once you got used to the thin atmosphere but I can't tell if you're chasing the russians or the russians are chasing you.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Don't mourn Trish if it comes to the worst it's just collateral damage.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Skirting the natives that's the fool's errand I ever did hear.

    ReplyDelete
  82. "Don't mourn Trish..."

    But who will write our horoscope?

    ReplyDelete
  83. Quirkest since you're in the area you might give some thought to heading to Machu Picchu and hide out in the ruins there...

    I seek not to "hide out" Bobbo.

    I merely use stealth until the moment when, like WiO, I can bathe in the blood of my enemies and rut in their gore.

    Aargghurr!

    Sorry, the bloodlust is upon me.
    I think it was going over that friggin waterfall.

    (Was kinda a rush though.)



    .


    .

    ReplyDelete
  84. Then again Quirk there's always Cape Froward, Chile (53°53′47″S 71°17′40″W / 53.89639°S 71.29444°W / -53.89639; -71.29444) just keep the sun to your back mostly.

    ReplyDelete
  85. WiO:I pray for Sharia to be enforced on T and her special girl friend...

    Thou shalt not take the LORD thy God's name in vain.

    But I would not feel so all alone. Everybody must get stoned:

    Israelis who wish to learn how to strum the Dylan song "The times they are a' changing," will have to look elsewhere.

    "As of today, visitors from ip-addresses in Israel are blocked from dylanchords," the online message says. "As a contribution to a cultural boycott of the state of Israel - a long overdue reaction to the absurd inhumanity that is demonstrated in its actions and that goes against everything that I and this site stands for—access to dylanchords has been blocked for visitors from Israel."

    ReplyDelete
  86. AEHI Signs MOU With Hyperion Power To Manufacture Small, Modular Nuclear Reactors In China And Market World-Wide

    Partnership to open untapped opportunities in commercial nuclear power

    EAGLE, IDAHO - June 14, 2010 - Alternate Energy Holdings, Inc. (OTCQB: AEHI) - today announced the signing of a memorandum of understanding with New Mexico-based Hyperion Power Generation, Inc. The MOU is the beginning of a joint venture between the two companies to license, build and market Hyperion's refrigerator-sized modular nuclear reactors on a world-wide basis.

    "I am extremely excited and honored to be a partner with Hyperion and its equally impressive 25 Mwe Hyperion Power Module. It is one of the most innovative products I've seen in my 46 years in the nuclear industry. Because of its small size the power plant's applications are limitless and could fuel a huge variety of important facilities including: hospitals, desalinization plants, emergency facilities, industrial parks, factories, military bases, and even small towns for many years. Because of its innovative and exclusive design, Hyperion's technology can even open up applications that no other production reactor can perform. Our partnership will make it possible to market the product internationally, and to locate specific applications in the United States," said Don Gillispie, AEHI CEO and Chairman.

    "We chose AEHI to assist us in this endeavor because the company is independently operated, has unprecedented connections in the international community, especially in China, and is headed up by some of the most well-known and respected individuals in the nuclear industry. If there is one company that has the ability to successfully place the Hyperion product in the international spotlight, it is AEHI," said John R. "Grizz" Deal, Hyperion CEO.

    Hyperion knocked the nuclear industry on its heels last year when company officials announced the ultra-small reactor, which already has more than 150 purchase commitments from customers such as mining and telecom companies. Unlike most reactors, Hyperion transportable reactors are sealed at the factory and are not refueled onsite. When the reactor has exhausted its fuel, it is returned to the factory and a new reactor is simply installed in its place.

    "The Hyperion Power Module practically sells itself," said Gillispie. "It can be installed in a small vault, could power about 25,000 homes, and comes with an unbelievably affordable price tag. In, addition, the power plants can be stacked to provide exactly the amount of power needed now and still have the option to increase power supplies in the future if power demands increase. That combination opens up a limitless market, in which AEHI has a variety of customers who are ready to buy."


    John R. "Grizz" Deal, Hyperion CEO. What a deal. Beats 'Quirk' for confidence level sales.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Why would I submit to Islam? Because I think it's wrong to demolish some one's place of worship? My comment was directed to you as an individual not the situation going on in the ME. I don't care if it's a church, a synagogue or fucking rock, even if civilians weren't killed, it's wrong and you know it.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Quirk, you can do all of that and still post at the EB? I'm impressed.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Collateral Damage--

    http://comments.americanthinker.com/read/1/615593.html

    Democratic Congressman assaults student

    ReplyDelete
  90. You got any more of them toads left, Q? Sounds like you're going through'em pretty fast. :)

    ReplyDelete
  91. In Quito, he can get a resupply, rufus.

    Just check in with the purser at the Amex office. Tell him the password de jour, then handshake #6.

    He gets the good stuff, he only supplies the three toed toads of the highest quality, from the eastern slope of the Andes.

    ReplyDelete
  92. MeLoDy said...
    Why would I submit to Islam? Because I think it's wrong to demolish some one's place of worship? My comment was directed to you as an individual not the situation going on in the ME. I don't care if it's a church, a synagogue or fucking rock, even if civilians weren't killed, it's wrong and you know it.




    mel...

    You are defending the destruction of the BORG's Rock of Worship, after the BORG has EATTEN it's way thru the world...

    UNDERSTAND that the DOME of the ROCK SITS on the DESTROYED TEMPLE MOUNT....

    UNDERSTAND that to hurt Islam by destroying their pagan symbol is exactly what they have done to all of us for CENTURIES....

    Can you say Istanbul? Hagia Sophia? Can you say "The Buddhas of Bamiyan"? The BORG's has eatten thru thousands and thousands of Churches and Synagogues, They have used the Headstones from Mount of Olives as LATRINE LINERS, they USED the Western WALL as a GARBAGE DUMP....

    Mel, KNOW the enemy... Ignore the ENEMY at your own risk...

    Taking out the Kaaba is the MOST HUMANE way to reform Islam, because if Islam is not REFORMED, they will destroy the west, the east, the north and the south...

    Killing a rock verses mass genocide on both sides...

    That's the choice...

    I choose the rock...

    ReplyDelete
  93. At first I thought Quirk was just trying to rehab his image and impress the women, but now I think he is having a life review, which explains the great clarity and superlucidity of recall of his experiences, the perfection of detail, the Pope at the party, what he had to drink and eat, his dirty underwear, what was said and left unsaid, his ability to be in Spain, the North Pole, South America seemingly instantaneously, the cinematic quality of the presentation, the raw emotion of 'bath in the blood of my enemies' on the one hand, and the tender, compassionate and so modest desire to skirt the native women on the other, the full range of human emotion, how actions affect oneself and others, it's a life review all right.

    And here's a quote from Mark Twain I just came across for the first time:

    "Death is the starlit strip between the companionship of yesterday and the reunion of tomorrow."

    That's pretty good, really.

    ReplyDelete
  94. Women near the Kaaba--

    http://www.mujahideenryder.net/2006/09/02/saudi-salafi-scholars-women-not-allowed-near-the-kaaba/

    Makes perfect sense from the islamic point of view, women being unclean, irresponsible, emotional, flirtatious, seductive of any man that wanders by, needing to be chaperoned here and everywhere by some male or other, and basically, confined to quarters for the greater good of everyone. But whether eliminating the Kaaba would result in a real reform of Islam I don't know.

    ReplyDelete
  95. It's not going to happen anyway so the whole argument is just an intellectual argument, but does make one think.

    ReplyDelete
  96. I'm defending no such thing. I'm not here to take sides, either. I'm not racist and I don't pretend to understand everything that goes on here. But I do understand your passion, really I do, and I appreciate you explaining it to me in layman's terms, I get it. But I am who I am and that's just the way I feel and I don't apologize for it.

    I think I'll leave it at that.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Melody you are perfectly fine. There's some boys who do this sort of thing on the Belmont Club too. Nuke this, nuke that, teach 'em a lesson. It's just testosterone-fueled strutting, but it gives insight into a man's psyche when he says he's willing to nuke a religious artifact in the center of a major world city and fallout be damned. It says he does not love his neighbor as another "I".

    Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

    Isaiah 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

    ReplyDelete