100 students of Lal Masjid surrender Hindustan Times
At least 100 students of the radical Lal Masjid in Islamabad surrendered on Wednesday before a fresh deadline set by the Pakistani government ended even as the two hardline clerics along with several other students remained holed up inside.
The surrender came as President Pervez Musharraf announced a reward of Rs 5,000 for every student who surrenders besides pardoning them and giving travel facilities to all of them.
Pakistani officials said around 100 male and female students of the madrasa have surrendered. Before that six girl students of the seminary came out and were taken away by their parents.
The government was expected to fix a new deadline after a meeting of federal cabinet in view of the "mass desertions".
Some students who spoke to waiting journalists complained that they were being pressurised not to leave by mosque authorities.
The two radical clerics, Abdul Aziz and Abdul Rahid Ghazi, were still defiant inside the mosque along with some hardline students and were resisting efforts to surrender.
Reports also said that the bodies of three students who were killed by Army snipers were lying inside the mosque.
The bloody standoff between the mosque students and the security forces surrounding the seminary has till now claimed 21 lives and injured over 150.
British women in the UK.
In a related story:
US to hunt the Taliban inside Pakistan
By Syed Saleem Shahzad (hattip: Doug) Asia Times
KARACHI - Since last September, North Atlantic Treaty Organization forces in Afghanistan have been pressing Islamabad for the right to conduct extensive hot-pursuit operations into Pakistan to target Taliban and al-Qaeda bases.
According to Asia Times Online contacts, NATO and its US backers have gotten their wish: coalition forces will start hitting targets wherever they might be.
Pakistani President General Pervez Musharraf is expected to
make an important announcement on extremism during an address to the nation in the next day or two.
That photo shows how woman are dehumanised by their vermin men. It's sickening. It's also sickening to think that a large part of the UK's problem is with the same kind of fundamentalist Pakistani mentality. How the British people have allowed this kind of misogyny to flourish within UK borders is beyond me.ReplyDelete
The good news is that the US will be able to pursue Taliban into Pakistan. That could also be bad news if things are getting dicey for Musharraf.
Hamas wants credit for the release of BBC reporter Alan Johnson.ReplyDelete
"The message was clear. Hamas is in charge, is a responsible organisation that won the Palestinian elections last year, has nothing to do with the al-Qaeda inspired kidnappers and can impose law and order.
The implication was that affairs in Gaza have improved since Hamas seized control and that the world should now deal with it."
Nearly 600 have surrendered at the Mosque after receiving an ultimatum. Surrender or die.ReplyDelete
Happy 4th all.ReplyDelete
thanks for the pic whit.ReplyDelete
WASHINGTON (Associated Press) -- U.S. and Turkish officials say that the United States needs to step up efforts to prevent Kurdish separatists from operating cross border attacks on Turkey from Iraq.ReplyDelete
The issue has taken on greater urgency as Kurdish guerrillas have escalated attacks in Turkey and provoked Turkish threats to launch a military incursion into Iraq, a move that could have serious implications for the U.S. efforts to stabilize Iraq.
U.S. officials say they consider the separatist Kurdistan Workers' Party or PKK to be a terrorist organization and are working closely with Turkey to combat the threat. But officials have had few examples of success against the PKK to point to.
Responding to criticism of U.S. inaction from Turkey, U.S. Brig. Gen. Perry Wiggins, deputy director of operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff suggested that the United States was focused on its own mission in Iraq.
"We continue to work with Turkey," Wiggins said. "Our military's focus is on Iraq and the situation in Iraq."
He added: "As the secretary of defense has said, any disruption up in Northern Iraq would not be helpful at this time."
"Our military's focus is on Iraq and the situation in Iraq."
Now Kudistan is in Iraq, the terrorists are in Iraq, but not attacking US troops, they are attacking NATO allied troops, in Turkey, from Iraq. It is our mission to deny terrorist sanctuary in Iraq. Denying it will not make it so.
Gen. Perry Wiggins should be relieved for such an inane, inept and feckless comment. Denying US responsibility and authority.
As security guarentor in Iraq, it is the US's responsibility to stop the PKK. They ARE IN Iraq.
Just because the PKK are where the US troops are not does not lessen the US's responsibility to our NATO ally.
It is hust another example of an Iraqi "bridge to far" for US.ReplyDelete
A mission of international importance, not even attempted by US.
Hope those Turks roll in to Iraq and solve their problem, one to big or complicated for US.
Killing terrorists, destroying their infrastructure.
It is, after all, a Global War on Terro.ReplyDelete
Northern Iraq, it's not excempt.
If the PKK works for US, we best get it under control, if not ...
Let 'em bleed.
Venezuela's decision to sell gasoline to Iran has upped the ante as Chavez continues his defiance of the United States.ReplyDelete
The NY Times reports:
"Energy analysts say Tehran began rationing gasoline last week primarily in an effort to cut gasoline consumption in anticipation of possible sanctions over its nuclear program. The United States Congress is considering a bill that would impose sanctions on any company selling gasoline to Iran, and the United Nations Security Council will meet in September to discuss tougher sanctions against Tehran."
How long will this two-bit tinhorn mount the world stage? Are we headed for an "ultimate showdown?" Will Mrs. BJ Clinton be the CIC when it all goes down?
Don't change that dial.
Well, whit, the US recieves one million barrels of crude, each day, from Mr Hugos' Citgo.ReplyDelete
That is each and every day. Now the US will impose sanctions on itself, when it objects to Citgo selling to Iran, as well?
Will the US ban Venezualean crude from US ports and refineries?
No need for the UN to vote, before we could take that action. No permission required, but would Mr Bush act, without the World Government approvals?
Citgo will continue to sell to US, and Iran. Watch.
No pain for US, under the Bush Doctrine on struggle. We need that million barrels a day, now more than ever.
Interpol Chief calls for Global Anti-Terror ForceReplyDelete
"As hard as it may be to believe, the world still does not have a global database of convicted terrorists," Noble wrote in the newspaper, published on Wednesday.
"Nor is there a protocol for reporting to police worldwide when international terrorists have escaped from prison," he added, listing many failures of international co-operation.
Noble said terrorists could travel with little fear their passports would be checked against a global database of stolen travel documents and added that few, if any, foreigners arrested worldwide had their fingerprints checked.
"But try to carry a bottle of spring water onto a plane and you will be stopped in your tracks," he said.
"It is time to act decisively. The world needs a strong, multinational, multilingual anti-terrorist task force, operational 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to identify more of the holes in the world's collective anti-terrorist efforts."
How do we balance security needs with the danger of a global "police state?"
It has been 90 days since the Chinese laid the keels of Hugo's new Canal capable tankers and two refineries for his high sulpher crude.ReplyDelete
Will the US impose sanctions on China, to stop Citgo from trading with Iran?
The US has not forced divisture of US investments in EU companies doing business with Iran.
Nor in Russia, which sells Iran air defense missile sysyems.
You point out that this a "hell of a mess" we've gotten ourselves into. No matter which way one turns, there are no good choices. Every decision could lead to disastrous consequences.
The west wants no more Bush/Blair adventures yet the fundies are at war. Osama should be proud.
We have certainly played his game, so far.ReplyDelete
Two military quagmires, when Osama had hoped for one, and political dysfunction in DC. An added bonus.
That the boy and his fellow travelers were able to find US approved sanctuary in Pakistan, then begin to threaten there, to transform from the client to the patron, boggles the mind. Shows the extent of the lies Mr Bush told US about the War on Terror, back in 2002.
Should have gone after Osama, in '02 with all the tools in the box, not just a few CIA scouts.
Biggest error of Mr Bush's career, half stepping in Afghanistan.
Worse the BJ Clinton
Going back to that Asia Times article about NATO being green lighted to strike anywhere in Pakistan:ReplyDelete
If the story is accurate, there's a lot of news there.
1. NATO air targeting Taleban and acting alone or in concert with Pakistani Army.
2. Pakistan will accept Guantanamo detainees.
How long will NATO resolve last when we start bombing madrassas and the newsmedia and human rights groups kick into high gear about the collateral damage. I can see Germany and Gordon Brown's government doing a lot of hand wringing and retreat.
Not to mention a Democratic President in the White House.ReplyDelete
Exactly, whit, we ceded the inititive to the enemy. Years ago.ReplyDelete
They recovered and have been making steady advances, both in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
For the past five years.
For the past five years.
For the past five years.
For the past five years.
Now that the Insurection is in the Capital, the US will strike at the periphery. The mountain base camps.
Closing the gate, after the horse herd has run off.
Day late, dollar short, an expression my dad uses, seems appropriate to US, now, in that Region, in the entire War on Terror, really.
The General President has pardoned Dr Khan, the Gitmo detainees, will not be far behind.ReplyDelete
From the BBC:ReplyDelete
Hundreds leave Pakistani mosque
About 700 students have surrendered at a mosque besieged by Pakistani security forces in the capital, Islamabad, officials say.
Militant students inside the compound have been told to give themselves up, after fierce gun battles with security forces killed 10 people on Tuesday.
Several thousand people remain inside the Red Mosque (Lal Masjid) complex, many young students at a girls' school.
Clerics at the mosque are campaigning for Islamic Sharia law to be enforced.
Troops sealed off the area around the mosque after Tuesday's clashes and no-one is able to get within about one kilometre of the site.
At daybreak, soldiers strung barbed wire across streets near the mosque, where armed students have barricaded themselves in.
"My two daughters are inside and I am worried about them," one parent, Mohammad Javed, told the BBC. "They are 14 and 10 years old.
"I have talked to them and they are willing to die for Islam. It is the government's fault, they should back down."
Another man said he had been trying to persuade his brother to come out.
"What the students are doing is because they are immature and young... They don't understand the consequences."
An indefinite curfew is in place around the Red Mosque, and power and water supplies have been cut off.
Those inside have been ordered to give up their weapons, although officials have said they do not want more bloodshed.
The BBC's Barbara Plett outside the mosque says it is not clear what will happen to students who do not comply with the ultimatum.
Clerics, acting as intermediaries, held overnight talks with both sides, but there has been no sign of a breakthrough.
At least two deadlines set by the government for students to surrender have passed.
The government has said women and children can go free - with offers of money and safe passage - but top mosque leaders and males involved in killings and other crimes will face prosecution.
Officials say several thousand students remain inside the mosque compound. Our correspondent says security officials estimate that eventually a hard core of several hundred militants will be left.
In addition to those killed, more than 140 people were hurt during Tuesday's violence, officials said.
People fled from busy shopping areas as masked students traded fire with security forces. Dozens of other students - mostly armed with sticks and petrol bombs - patrolled the area.
The mosque and the two religious schools attached to it - one for men, the other for women - have recently been the focus of several confrontations with the Pakistani authorities.
These have been provoked by the kidnapping of police officers and of people accused of involvement in prostitution by members of the mosque.
Critics have attacked the government for failing to enforce its authority in the capital.
President Pervez Musharraf has previously said security forces cannot raid the mosque for fear of reprisal suicide attacks.
BBC correspondents say it is thought the mosque has powerful friends in the security services, which has prevented the authorities from taking action.
But now that people have been killed, the government has finally gone on the offensive.
Story from BBC NEWS:
John Brown's bodyReplyDelete
lies molding in its grave
but the truth keeps marching on!
Guided by God, baby
A fundimentalist preacher and his cadre of family and followers.
Take up arms against the government
Not like Waco, at all.
Where the Government went out of its' way to create a confrontation.
This comment has been removed by the author.ReplyDelete
"The day will arrive when it will be necessary to destroy Islam..."ReplyDelete
Had I a dime for every time I've read this...
Inquiring minds would like to know:
How do you propose we destroy Islam? That is, as a practical matter, how would this be accomplished?
Trish: How do you propose we destroy Islam? That is, as a practical matter, how would this be accomplished?ReplyDelete
1. 100% inspection of cargo vessels for refugees, with immediate turn-around.
2. No airport entry to any non-islamic nation by a citizen of an islamic nation.
3. Deportation of all islamic residents to their point of origin, whether they have doctor's credentials or not.
4. Total embargo of goods to or from islamic nations.
5. Demolition of all mosques. Nuclear demolition of Mecca/Medina shrines, with regular "freshener" strikes for the next century or so to prevent reconstruction.
6. Take down all Islamic web content, as if it were child porn.
Will any of this happen? No. Israel supplies Gaza with gasoline and electric power even as the rockets sail over the fence.
The finest act of treason that ever was:ReplyDelete
We therefore the representatives of the united States of America in general Congress assembled appealing to the supreme judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions do in the name and by the authority of the good people of these colonies solemly publish and declare --
That these united colonies are and of right ought to be free and independent States; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the british Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of great Britain is & ought to be totally dissolved; and that as free & independent states they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts & things, which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes & our sacred honor.
As a small child this day was always anticipated by me as the day of the 1812 Overture. Nothing, I submit, puts a lump in the throat like that artillery.
So following your six-point program would destroy Islam? Wipe it out? Extinguish it from the face of the earth?ReplyDelete
I fail to see how, T.
"The good news is that the US will be able to pursue Taliban into Pakistan. That could also be bad news if things are getting dicey for Musharraf."ReplyDelete
Gotta get while the gettin's good because things always do get dicey and the window always closes.
There's no way to destroy Islam but somehow, someway it must be reformed. How that will be done without bloodshed, heartbreak and heresy is beyond me.ReplyDelete
"The window always closes."ReplyDelete
I think there's only about a 36 month window left on US "boots on the ground" military action in foreign theaters.
With regard specifically to Pakistan, whit: You've got literally a couple of months. And the targets must be approved by their guys.ReplyDelete
Then the window closes again. Musharraf can't keep it open.
We're Not in this Alone.ReplyDelete
We had no problem destroying Nazism because we recognized it for what it was. It was a hate cult.ReplyDelete
First we destroyed their infrastructure.
Then we killed, captured and tried their leadership. Then we de-nazified their institutions. We destroyed their symbols and restricted their meeting and literature. The nazi symbol is still banned in Germany.
It would not be necessary to attack all muslims in all countries. We can easily restrict their entrance to and practices of their cult in the West. The militant leadership could be killed. The rest of the Muslim world could be restricted from travel to the West.
We have laws against hate crimes. We could pass laws against hate religions and hate cults.
We first have to face the facts about what Islam is. It is no more a religion than Nazism was. The leadership are no different from the Waffen SS.
P.M. Gordon Brown, after learning that the 8 terrorist suspects are muslim doctors has ordered a probe into the recruitment of doctors by the NHS (National Health Service).ReplyDelete
Read story here
Am I dreaming? Is Gordon Brown acting out a Monty Python skit? To paraphrase H.L. Mencken: "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of political leaders."
"Gordon Brown has banned ministers from using the word “Muslim” in connection with the terrorism crisis."ReplyDelete
Read story here
It's discouraging, wouldn't you say?
Discouraging, yes. Surprising, no. After 7/7, British politicians talked a good game about cleaning up the rats nest but after the furor over th e bombings died down, it was back to PC business as usual. Mark Steyn's book title "America Alone" may have even more meaning that he meant.
Trish: Only 2 months window in Pakistan? What can be done in that time period other than secure Musharraf's end?
"Only 2 months window in Pakistan? What can be done in that time period other than secure Musharraf's end?"ReplyDelete
Musharraf secures Musharraf's end. In two months we can make minor inroads into securing ours.
We get that opportunity every once in awhile. Last time I think was Winter/Spring 06.
And technically speaking, there are no "boots on the ground" in Pakistan. Ever.
"First we destroyed their infrastructure.ReplyDelete
"Then we killed, captured and tried their leadership. Then we de-nazified their institutions. We destroyed their symbols and restricted their meeting and literature."
Okay, how do you propose we destroy the infrastructure of a religion; kill, capture and try its leadership; then de-Islamify its institutions?
And how big a project - how big, exactly - are we talking about here?
Deuce, Whit, and Tiger:ReplyDelete
How about being a part in starting the blogstorm that I suggested below, in my comment to Wretch?
Yon has invited everyone to use his Baqubah post to get the word out, described below.
His concern is the MSM Blackout of the matter.
Seems to me if a Blogstorm was created, the MSM would cover that, at least, and in so doing, bring attention to this atrocity thus far ignored.
Perhaps Pajamas Media could play a part in getting this started?
Hat Tip, Eggplant.
Update on “Bless the Beasts and Children”
"Although I can’t answer to the cause of the problem, I humbly offer permission to media outlets to republish excerpts of the dispatch or the dispatch in its entirety, including my photographs from the story (if used as they are in the dispatch) at no cost during the month of July 2007. I only ask that the site receive proper attribution and that any publication taking me up on the offer email the website with the details.
If much of mainstream media does not recognize barbarity, clearly their readers can and do. Readers throughout the world might consider contacting their local papers and favorite websites with the link to this update. The story is very important in that it is well-documented with photos and video, and the Iraqi and American soldiers who were present are named and easily reachable. Those mainstream reporters currently in Baqubah could readily take up the baton."
I thought it was a bad thing to call attention to the regular atrocities of the...whomever. Demoralizing, it is. For the Home Front.ReplyDelete
When we destroyed Nazisim, we did not have to kill all the Nazis let alone the Germans. We probably killed 8,000,000 Germans out of 75-80 million. The numbers are horrific, but the war is coming. The Islamists are deadly serious abous their goals. We will have to slaughter them in great numbers or we will be slaughtered by them. 30% of European Muslims are sympathetic to AQ to one degree or another.ReplyDelete
We have eight doctors, apparently westernized, joining a previous group of western trained engineers all prepared to kill themselves to kill us. One of these days, Pakistan is going to collapse and Iran will get a nuclear weapon. What will be our response to that? The technology used in Scotland can work at both ends of the Holland and Lincoln tunnel in NYC and trap and kill thousands of commuters and shut down New York again. What will be our response to that?
At some time we will have no choice but to demonstrate to the Islamic world that we have the means to kill them and will do so if they are unwilling to control the madness within their community.
Deuce, they have no more opportunity to establish the vaunted caliphate than a snow ball in hell.ReplyDelete
You'll frighten yourself everyday in the face of this closet phantom. If that's what you want to do, you're welcome to it, of course.
It's not an existential threat. Civilization will not perish. We are not doomed, nor destined to slaughter.
Have a lovely Fourth.
In the transcript, Zawahri called for unity in Iraq. "The Mujahideen of Islam in Iraq of the Caliphate and Jihad are advancing with steady steps toward victory...." he said.ReplyDelete
"The first thing which our beloved brothers in Iraq must realize is the critical nature of unity," he said, calling on all Muslims to support the fight there and elsewhere.
He said the "long-term" plan for the movement consisted of fighting to change "corrupt and corruptive regimes" and "hurrying to the fields of jihad like Afghanistan, Iraq and Somalia for jihadi preparation and training."
Trish , I hope you are right.ReplyDelete
Deuce, I'm afraid that you are, to some extent, correct. Maybe we'll be able to get away with just destroying one (1) Country. Maybe.ReplyDelete
So, who's winning, us or them?ReplyDelete
The use of that term, empire, is simply bad history -- simplicity masquerading as sophistication.
The globalization of Islam
Mosque Leader tries to Escape in BurqaReplyDelete
The leader of a radical mosque besieged by Pakistani security forces in Islamabad has been caught trying to escape wearing a woman's burqa.
"Security forces seized Maulana Abdul Aziz as he tried to leave the Red Mosque amid a crowd of women.
The mosque is surrounded by Pakistani troops after gun battles with armed students killed 16 on Tuesday. They have been told to give themselves up.
Clerics at the mosque are campaigning for Islamic Sharia law to be enforced.
The BBC's Syed Shoaib Hasan in Islamabad says that there is a feeling that the siege may be entering its end stages as three senior Muslim clerics have entered the mosque to try negotiate with Abdul Rashid Ghazi, the deputy leader of the mosque and brother to Abdul Aziz.
Security forces have also been moving around inside the compound, our correspondent says.
Abdul Rashid is reportedly saying that he is willing to surrender if certain demands are met however, the government remains adamant that all armed people inside the mosque should surrender unconditionally. "
This comment has been removed by the author.ReplyDelete
All those Germans, duece, they were German before there were Nazis, they were German after there were Nazis.ReplyDelete
The mussulmen were born mussulmen, they'll die, musselmen.
As to you is winning or losing, elijak, it depends upon whose Standards are being used.ReplyDelete
What is being judged, and what is the baseline of success?
None of those things are carved in stone, they are perspectives that can be manipulated.
Always have been, always will be.
As Mr Cheney discribed as a requirement for a military operation. Definable Goals.
That is what the discussion today is about, how serious is the threat?
The US Govenment does not behave as if it be very serious, at all.
At least not publicly, which is where perceptions are formed.
Wed Jul 04, 08:50:00 PM EDTReplyDelete
Right now, the names of the heavyweight champions are Klitschko, Ibragimov, Chagaev and Maskaev, and you don't have to still be fighting the Cold War to know that is not helping the popularity of the sport.ReplyDelete
Holyfield versus any of them would immediately put heavyweight boxing back in the game, and Holyfield-Klitschko probably is the biggest fight boxing can make right now. (Honestly, which would you rather see, that or Floyd Mayweather-Ricky Hatton?)
Yeah, he's too old, and no, no one with that much money should be fighting anymore, but you know what? He's determined to do it, he has the legal right to do it and now he has even shown he has the ability to do it.
Holyfield vs. Champion