“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."

Friday, December 21, 2007

Serving Two Masters

Our previous post debate, touched on a problem as old as mankind, split loyalties. It is being discussed in the election and goes to the heart of who is a trustworthy American. Common sense would dictate that certain people should not be trusted in certain situations. That is done every day when US juries are selected. US law sanctions such discrimination.

Huckabee, Obama or Romney; are they flawed men because they have religious convictions that are suspect? Is Giuliani flawed because of a personal lifestyle that others on the religious right dissaprove? All difficult questions.

When it comes to security involving China, should Chinese Americans be suspect as security risks?

China taps into U.S. spy operations
By Bill Gertz Washington Times
December 21, 2007

China's intelligence service gained access to a secret National Security Agency listening post in Hawaii through a Chinese-language translation service, according to U.S. intelligence officials.

The spy penetration was discovered several years ago as part of a major counterintelligence probe by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS) that revealed an extensive program by China's spy service to steal codes and other electronic intelligence secrets, and to recruit military and civilian personnel with access to them.

According to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity, China's Ministry of State Security, the main civilian spy service, carried out the operations by setting up a Chinese translation service in Hawaii that represented itself as a U.S.-origin company.

The ruse led to classified contracts with the Navy and NSA to translate some of the hundreds of thousands of intercepted communications gathered by NSA's network of listening posts, aircraft and ships.

NCIS agents discovered that the translation service, which officials did not identify by name, had conducted contract work for the National Security Agency facility at Kunia, an underground electronic intelligence post some 15 miles northwest of Honolulu that conducts some of the U.S. intelligence community's most sensitive work.

Kunia is both a processing center and a collection point for large amounts of Chinese- and other Asian-language communications, which are translated and used in classified intelligence reports on military and political developments.

Naval intelligence officials familiar with the Chinese spy penetration said the access to both "raw" and analyzed intelligence at Kunia caused significant damage by giving China's government details on both the targets and the sources of U.S. spying operations. Such information would permit the Chinese to block the eavesdropping or to provide false and misleading "disinformation" to U.S. intelligence.

The officials did not say how long the Chinese operation lasted before being detected.

NCIS also discovered a major Chinese intelligence operation that sought to recruit Chinese Americans as spies, and to recruit Navy and civilian intelligence workers with access to Kunia's secrets.

According to the officials, China's program to recruit intelligence workers was discovered in 2005 after a Navy cryptographic technician was caught accepting a no-cost visit to China, paid for by Beijing's government.

The case led to an NCIS probe that discovered other intelligence personnel, many of them nearing the ends of their careers, who were targeted by Chinese intelligence for recruitment.

The ethnic recruitment effort involved similar tactics. China's intelligence service used intelligence officers and supporters to identify Chinese Americans with access to secrets who would be approached and offered free visits to China, often to meet relatives. The Chinese would then use the visit to attempt to recruit the Americans as spies.

Chinese-American ethnic groups in the past have denounced the U.S. government for singling out Asian Americans as spy targets, accusing counterintelligence officials of racism. But the Chinese recruitment program shows that Beijing actively seeks to develop spies through such ethnic targeting.

NSA and NCIS spokesmen declined to comment when asked about the Chinese intelligence-gathering operations in Hawaii.

I.C. Smith, a former FBI special agent, said both China's civilian MSS and military spy service, known as "2 PLA" for the Second Department of the Chinese military, are targeting NSA.

"There can be no higher target for an intelligence service, and that includes China's MSS and 2 PLA, than gaining access to an adversaries' codes and electronic intelligence," he said, because it is the ultimate in "foreknowledge" advocated by ancient Chinese strategist Sun Tzu.

Getting U.S. electronic intelligence and codes would give China specific information on what is known and allow Beijing to take defensive measures "based on knowledge, not supposition," Mr. Smith said, adding that "it also allows for disinformation to be done with confidence and it basically gives the intelligence service every advantage over the enemy."

The NSA Hawaii operations center employs several thousand people and was recently expanded at a cost of more than $350 million. An NSA press release in August stated the expansion is "one facet of the agency's efforts to evolve a global cryptologic enterprise that is resilient, agile and effective in prosecuting a dynamic threat environment."

The facility was singled out for criticism in the past by intelligence reform advocates because of its restrictive policies on information-sharing.


  1. Deuce: Huckabee, Obama or Romney; are they flawed men because they have religious convictions that are suspect? Is Giuliani flawed because of a personal lifestyle that others on the religious right dissaprove? All difficult questions.

    It's all part of the vetting process. We seek insights into the candidate's judgment. Huckabee wears his Christianity on his sleeve, but it is a fundamentalist version that rejects most science. This tells us that Huckabee will govern by a set of ideological axioms and won't even look at new evidence (like the NIE) when it comes in. Obama promises to be a uniter, not a divider, but attends a church with a set of principles so race-oriented they would be called a neo-nazi outfit if they replaced every instance of the word "black" in their mission statement with the word "white". Of these three, only Romney comes out okay, but only among voters who don't have a bone to pick with Mormonism itself. Giuliani has said "9-11" so many times his speeches have become fodder for drinking games, and his explanation of the strange incident where his wife called him in the middle of his speech to the NRA (That 9-11 made them want to keep in touch as often as possible) was just creepy, especially when you consider that he was still married to his previous wife on 9-11.

  2. Demonstrating yet again that a well-oiled counterintelligence activity is well-nigh priceless.

  3. How come it's only the Israeli spy that made the headlines?

  4. Because the Jewish fellow was a direct hire, not a subcontractor.

    The Jewish fellow had been given a much higher level of trust, by the people of the United States, than was allotted to an outside contractor.

    The information that the NSA gave to that contractor, to translate, originated with the Chinese, being communication intercepts. The Chinese already knew of the information, that the NSA was capable of intercepting it previously assumed, then verified, from the Chinese perspective.

    The Jewish fellow divulged classified info that was previously unknown to US enemies.

    The Jewish fellow doing greater damage to the security of the United States, than was done by the contractor.

  5. John Anthony Walker, Jr. is a former Warrant Officer and communications specialist for the U.S. Navy convicted for selling his services as a spy to the Soviet Union from 1968 to 1985, the height of the Cold War era. Walker pleaded guilty in late 1985 as part of a plea arrangement whereby he offered testimony on co-conspirator Jerry Whitworth, provided details of his espionage activities and negotiated more lenient treatment for his son, Michael Walker. During his time as a spy, Walker helped the Soviets decipher over two hundred thousand classified encrypted naval messages organizing a spy operation that The New York Times reported in 1987 "is sometimes described as the most damaging Soviet spy ring in history."[3

    Walker joined the Navy in 1955 when, arrested for burglary, he was offered the option of jail or the military.[1][4] While stationed on the nuclear-powered submarine U.S.S. Andrew Jackson in Charleston, South Carolina, Walker opened a bar which immediately plunged him into debt.

    Walker began spying for the Soviets in December 1967, when, distraught over his financial difficulties, he walked into the Soviet Embassy in Washington, DC and sold a classified document (a radio cipher card) for several thousand dollars, negotiating an ongoing salary of $500 to $1,000 a week.

    Walker persisted in his activities, receiving an income of several thousand dollars per month for supplying classified information. While Walker on occasion utilized the services of his wife Barbara, he began seeking further assistance in 1969 when, stationed to teach radio operators in San Diego, California, he befriended student Jerry Whitworth. Whitworth, who would go onto become a Navy senior chief radioman, agreed to assist Walker in accessing highly-classified communications data in 1973. After his Navy retirement in 1976, Walker began looking more aggressively among his children and family members for assistance. By 1984, he had recruited his older brother Arthur and his son Michael.

    In 1990, New York Times journalist John J. O'Connor reported that, "It's been estimated by some intelligence experts that Mr. Walker provided enough code-data information to alter significantly the balance of power between Russia and the United States". Asked later how he had managed to access so much classified information, Walker said, "KMart has better security than the Navy".

    In May 1985, the FBI were tipped off to Walker's activities by Walker's then ex-wife Barbara, whom he had refused to pay alimony. Following an investigation, the FBI arrested Walker, Whitmore, Arthur Walker and Michael Walker. Barbara Walker was not prosecuted because of her role in disclosing the ring.

    Walker cooperated with authorities in a plea bargain in which his son would receive a sentence of no more than 25 years imprisonment in return for his disclosure of the details of his spying and his testimony against Jerry Whitworth.

    Walker's son Michael, who had a relatively minor role in the ring and turned state's evidence in exchange for a reduced sentence, was released from prison on parole in February 2000.

    K-Mart not only has better security but better hiring practices.

    This fellow wasn't a Israeli and he was all over the headlines.

    Always pay your alimony.

    The picture above, that would be an excellent place to shoot grouse, around here, just what you want.

    "This tells us that Huckabee will govern by a set of ideological axioms and won't even look at new evidence (like the NIE) when it comes in."

    Vote Huckabee

  6. Bobal: The picture above, that would be an excellent place to shoot grouse, around here, just what you want.

    It looks like places in the Issaquah Alps where my husband takes me hiking. When we see a choice of trails like that I ask, "Do we go left or right?" and he says, "Yes." His philosophy is basically, whenever you see the way fork, take it.

  7. "Because the Jewish fellow was a direct hire, not a subcontractor."

    The Navy tech in the story was either a servicemember or a federal civil servant, as were the others targeted.
    No different in kind from Larry Franklin, for instance, who was however effectively targeted and recruited on the basis of non-professional affilitations and known sympathies, identified abroad.

    The business end of the Chinese operation, if accurate, is pretty impressive. The add-on operation, free trips for those particular federal employees, however, would have been highly problematic for their end. Unless the idea was to entice and collect and never deliver the promised travel; doesn't make much sense otherwise.

  8. Walker and son were the start of a new breed of American traitor.

  9. "The Jewish fellow divulged classified info that was previously unknown to US enemies."

    B.S. The Jewish fellow gave technical specifications to Soviet made weapons to a US ally, Israel. You'd think the Soviets would already be familiar with the technical specification to their own weapons. The Jewish fellow was responsible for Israel having overwhelming air superiority over Lebanon, the defeat of SAM batteries stationed in Lebanon, and the defeat of the Syrian Air Force over the skies of Lebanon.

    The Jewish Spy is a Jewish hero.

  10. "We've come to a fork in the road and we better take it."
    Yogi Berra

  11. "The future ain't what it used to be."
    Yogi Berra

    I understand what he means:(

  12. Nobody goes there anymore; it's too crowded.

  13. Well obviously you can be a Jewish Hero and an American traitor. If you work in an area and entrusted with state secrets, you can't pick and choose with whom you share the secrets. He obviously had a higher loyalty to Israel than the US.

    A Chinese-American can decide he has conflicting loyalties and does something for the greater good as he sees it. Both are spies and both have to pay the price for their treachery. Otherwise you have anarchy.

  14. It should be--
    "If you come to a fork in the road, take it."
    Never rely on your memory, you might get it right. bob

    "You should always go to other people's funerals. Otherwise they won't come to yours."

  15. Deuce,

    Please explain why would it be against the interest of the US for Israel to win its wars against her enemies.

  16. I'l pose a real possible scenario. Assume a Jewish electrical engineer with dual US-Israeli citizenship, living in Israel is working on a project that has system implications for an attack against Iran. The engineer is concerned that such an attack will result in the US getting pulled into a conflict that it would not otherwise want at this time. The engineer contacts the CIA. His treachery is uncovered. What would Israel do to him?

  17. Israel Says Army Major [Amit] Was a Spy

    Imprisoned Officer Said to Help U.S.

    David Hoffman - The Washington Post - June 3, 1993

    JERUSALEM, June 2 - Israel acknowledged for the first time today that a major in army intelligence was secretly tried and convicted in 1987 on charges of spying and having contacts with a foreign agent. Israeli sources said the officer was accused of providing information to the United States.

    According to a government statement, Maj. Yosef Amit was sentenced to 12 years in prison by a regional court. The case was kept secret until today to protect state security, the statement said.

    Israeli government spokesmen refused to elaborate on the case, and details of the charges against Amit could not be learned. However, the government statement suggested that he was accused of espionage and that he had contacts with foreign agents both n and outside Israel.

  18. Deuce,

    I don't know what Israel would do. I only know what I would do.

  19. Well mat don't ask me for a reference when you decide to work for the CIA.

  20. So,

    12 Years vs. Life?

    Anyway, I'd have revoked his Israeli Citizenship and that of his immediate family, confiscated all their property, and sent them all packing to the great US of A.

  21. Any defecting spy can cause collateral damage to other areas in intelligence that may be totally beyond their knowledge and intention. Pollard may not have been sentenced for what he did as much as for the chilling effect it would have on others with similar intentions.

  22. Two roads diverged in a "green" wood, and sorry I could not travel both, long I stood and looked down one as far as I could until it broke into the underbrush.

    I hope all of you here at the EBar have a great Christmas. Remember, wisemen still seek Him.....

  23. Texas Football Succumbs to Virulent Staph Infection From Turf

    By Victor Epstein

    Dec. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Missy Baker recalls the moment when she realized that her football-playing son, Boone, didn't just have the flu.

    ``He told me he was paralyzed,'' Baker said. ``I said, `What do you mean? I just saw you walk to the bathroom two hours ago.' And he said, `Mom, I can't move my arms or legs.'''

    Sixteen-year-old Boone, a wide receiver for Texas's Austin High School, was suffering from a recurrence of methicillin- resistant staphylococcus aureus, or MRSA, which his doctor said he got through an abrasion from playing on artificial turf, Baker said.

    Texas has artificial turf at 18 percent of its high school football stadiums, according to Web site It also has an MRSA infection rate among players that is 16 times higher than the estimated national average, according to three studies by the Texas Department of State Health Services.

    ``This is a disease that can kill you,'' said Carolina Espinoza, a graduate epidemiology student at the University of Texas in Houston, who helped conduct one of the studies. ``If I were a football player, I would be alarmed.''
    Luckily, only the football has died.

  24. Tersita, I read an article about that space rock, and it said, we don't know if it will hit Mars, but it won't hit the Rover.

  25. Deuce,

    Saudi spies and others were let go. Why not Pollard?

  26. The Road Not Taken

    TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood,
    And sorry I could not travel both
    And be one traveler, long I stood
    And looked down one as far as I could
    To where it bent in the undergrowth; 5

    Then took the other, as just as fair,
    And having perhaps the better claim,
    Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
    Though as for that the passing there
    Had worn them really about the same, 10

    And both that morning equally lay
    In leaves no step had trodden black.
    Oh, I kept the first for another day!
    Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
    I doubted if I should ever come back. 15

    I shall be telling this with a sigh
    Somewhere ages and ages hence:
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference. 20

    Same to you, Gag

  27. don't know mat. he pissed someone off.

  28. Yeah, Casper Weinberger needed to prove his unquestionable loyalty to the US by displaying exceptional hostility to Israel. But that piece of shit Casper Weinberger is longer around, so why the continued hostility to Israel?

  29. Signal sent from NASA--

    Red Rover, Red Rover,
    It's time to move over!

  30. The way a Raven, brushed down on me, a dusting of snow, from a Hemlock tree,

    gave my heart a change of mood, and saved some part of a day I had rued....

  31. Wiki:

    Prior to the sentencing of Jonathan Pollard, then Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger submitted a 46-page classified memorandum to the judge, the contents of which were not shown to Pollard's attorneys. Weinberger called for severe punishment, and the memo, still classified, is widely cited as a major reason that the judge ultimately sentenced Pollard to life in prison without parole for espionage. However, Weinberger, who himself was pardoned by President George H.W. Bush, stated before his death that Pollard's punishment is too harsh.

  32. This comment has been removed by the author.

  33. Pollard should have been shot, traiter that he is.

    Israel should have asked for the data, most likely had, and been denied.

    It was not Pollard's place to decide to whom to divulge the information.

    Hope he lives long and then rots in hell for eternity.

    As all real traitors to the Republic should.

  34. I do not suppose you consider Mordechai Vanunu a hero, do you, mat?

    The rest of the world should, for lifting the veil of secrecy from the Israeli nuclear program.

    That the Israeli finally released him, after a secret court convicted Vanunu on charges of treason and espionage and sentenced him to 18 years. He was released from prison, where he'd spent up to 10 years in solitary confinement, on April 21, 2004.

    That's on them, I'd have held until he died. But I'd have not arrested the reporter,Peter Hounam, that interviewed him, as the Israeli did, in 2004, when he went to Israel to cover Mordechai Vanunu's release.

    They released him quickly, but the Israeli showed their true colors, with his arrest, 18 years after interviewing Mordechai Vanunu in London.

  35. The US did not have to kidnap Pollard, the Israeli were not willing to back their "Hero" up, when he went to their DC Embassey for sanctuary, prior to his arrest.

    If the Israeli had the courage of their convictions, they'd have sheltered their "Hero", but they left him out in the cold, to twist in the wind.

    Abandoned to his fate.
    Typical of their stereotype, they did kidnap Mordechai Vanunu and illegally transported him to Israel.

    No arrest request and then extradition, nope, a straight up kidnapping. So much for Israel respecting the law of other nations.

    In both Mordechai Vanunu and Pollard's cases.

  36. Metuselah: But that piece of shit Casper Weinberger is longer around, so why the continued hostility to Israel?

    Because every other month Israel asks for Pollard to go free, like a wife who nags too much.

  37. If the Israeli really wanted Pollard, they should have sheltered him when he asked for help.

    But the Israeli abandoned him.

    His fate is on Israel
    For whom he spied and who left him to his fate, when they could have intervened and provided sanctuary to the traitor.

  38. All the Israeli had to do, open the gate.

    But that was to much for them to do, for their "Hero".

  39. WASHINGTON (Associated Press) -- Defense Secretary Robert Gates held out hope Friday that U.S. forces in Iraq could continue a steady decline next year if security keeps improving _ leaving 100,000 by year end.

    But he did not rule out a small uptick in U.S. troops in Afghanistan.

    While Gates would not put a specific number on Iraq troop levels, he agreed a consistent reduction would leave 10 brigades _ roughly 100,000 troops _ soon after American voters go to the polls for the 2008 presidential elections.

    There are currently 158,000 U.S. troops in Iraq. The first brigade that is not being replaced left this month.

  40. He gives his harness bells a shake
    To ask if there is some mistake.
    The only other sound's the sweep
    Of easy wind and downy flake

  41. No "Permanent Friends", either

    Rice Says US Has 'No Permanent Enemies'

    WASHINGTON (Associated Press) -- Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Friday held out the prospect of improved relations with the remaining two members of President Bush's "axis of evil," Iran and North Korea, as long as they meet international demands over their nuclear programs.

    Rice said the Bush administration in its remaining year would welcome fundamental changes in its dealings with the two countries, as well as with Syria, and as an example pointed to warming ties with Libya, which renounced weapons of mass destruction in 2003.

    "The United States doesn't have permanent enemies, we're too great a country for that," she told reporters at a State Department press conference.

  42. I have kept hidden in the instep arch
    Of an old cedar at the waterside
    A broken drinking goblet like the Grail
    Under a spell so the wrong ones can’t find it,
    So can’t get saved, as Saint Mark says they mustn’t.
    (I stole the goblet from the children’s playhouse.)
    Here are your waters and your watering place.
    Drink and be whole again beyond confusion

  43. Norm Macdonald was in a snit because he couldn't figure out what to get his Mexican Gardener for Christmas,
    and then it hit him:

  44. "I'll let him steal my identity!"

  45. 'Speaking of contraries, see how the brook
    In that white wave runs counter to itself.
    It is from that in water we were from
    Long, long before we were from any creature.
    Here we, in our impatience of the steps,
    Get back to the beginning of beginnings,
    The stream of everything that runs away.
    Some say existence like a Pirouot
    And Pirouette, forever in one place,
    Stands still and dances, but it runs away,
    It seriously, sadly, runs away
    To fill the abyss' void with emptiness.
    It flows beside us in this water brook,
    But it flows over us. It flows between us
    To separate us for a panic moment.
    It flows between us, over us, and with us.
    And it is time, strength, tone, light, life and love-
    And even substance lapsing unsubstantial;
    The universal cataract of death
    That spends to nothingness -- and unresisted,
    Save by some strange resistance in itself,
    Not just a swerving, but a throwing back,
    As if regret were in it and were sacred.
    It has this throwing backward on itself
    So that the fall of most of it is always
    Raising a little, sending up a little.
    Our life runs down in sending up the clock.
    The brook runs down in sending up our life.
    The sun runs down in sending up the brook.
    And there is something sending up the sun.
    It is this backward motion toward the source,
    Against the stream, that most we see ourselves in,
    The tribute of the current to the source.
    It is from this in nature we are from.
    It is most us.'

  46. ""The United States doesn't have permanent enemies, we're too great a country for that," she told reporters at a State Department press conference."
    (and the puerile garbage that came out of her mouth before that.)

    And we were told we could relax and take a breath:

    "The Adults are in Charge Again!"

    We're Freaking DOOMED!

    Might as well let the Huckabee Wackos take over:
    At least we can watch THEM enjoy the Rapture.

  47. No, dRat.

    You're not going to lay this on Israel. Pollard, the same as Jesus. You crucified them both.

  48. As the Huckster Reminds us:

    " Dealing with Iran is much like talking to your teenage son after he has hung and slit the throat of a stray dog in fron of a group of Weeblos.
    Always keep in mind that we are all God's Children.

    (Quoting Putin in
    "How I stashed away the First 20 Billion.")

  49. "Pollard should have been shot, traiter that he is."

    Child Raping Murderers should be "Welcomed" as long as they are from south of the Border.

  50. Not a chance, mat.
    I have not crucified anyone, not a soul. If anyone deserve crucifiction, it'd be that traitor, Pollard. But the US in it's just cause has merely imprisoned him, a fate well deserved.

    It was Israel that abandoned him, after he abandoned the United States. Turn about fair play, for Pollard. He chosee his bed partner, got fucked, didn't he.

    You doug, are trippin'.
    It is your home State, Hawaii, that issues drivers licenses to illegals, not Arizona.

    The Federals do not secure the border, not me or mine.
    For a variety of reasons, none of which I support, the Federal government has abandoned the border and allowed 20 million people to cross it. A criminal misdemeanor, but I'm realistic as to what can be done. As long as the US does not move to regularize those misdemeanor criminals, the felons will continue to slip on through.

    You are the one that advocated for the status que, when an attempt to regulate those here was offered into law.
    Then celebrated when the status que won.

    You both are projecting your own insecurities.

  51. Meanwhile, the The Austrian fixes the budget with a Christmas Gift To The Guilty.

  52. Next up for the Austrian, Albob:
    Free Health-Care for Illegals,
    the Better to solve the 14 Billion Dollars Plus budget "problem."

  53. This comment has been removed by the author.

  54. Hey Rat:
    When are you going to quit misquoting me?
    I'm for Regularization,
    Rudy's for "A Path to Citizenship"
    ...and a virtual "fence."

  55. A Mexican Consulate in Every State!
    (cause the Govt Knows we are treating them badly.)

  56. When the FBI was on Pollard's trail, he hightailed to the Israeli Embassy, where they would not open the gate, for him, the "Hero of Israel".

    Cannot lay that on US.

    No matter how badly Israel broke trust with Pollard.
    Israel the "country" mat thinks is a US appendage. All Isreals' ills, he lays on US, because to do otherwise, proves the real fallacy of viability for that City-State.

  57. They continue to leave Mexico, however.

  58. Projecting, Hell, Rat:
    I'm telepathic, answering your Embassy post before you wrote it.

    Be Very Afraid.

  59. "If anyone deserve crucifiction, it'd be that traitor, Pollard."

    I'm still waiting for an answer. Why would it be against the interest of the US for Israel to win its wars against her enemies?

  60. And Rudy is the most believeable of the bunch. A sad day, fer sure.

    If you keep correcting me, I'll get it into my head, eventually.

  61. I'm doing a telepathic implant as I write.

  62. James had Gilchrist on two nites ago:
    His answer for almost all of the 8 atrocities Kevin James came up with were the same;

    "That was almost 2 years ago, Kevin."

    "That was almost 5 years ago, Kevin."

    ...and so forth.

  63. Because the Israeli enemies are not the United State's enemies, mat.

    That was decided at a pay grade far above Pollard's.
    Not his place to contradict those decisions, by his traitorous actions, for which he is paying the price of his conduct.

    Still, what of that true hero, Mordechai Vanunu, kidnapped and unjustly imprisoned for 18 years by Israel.

  64. Mat:
    It would Piss off the Palis?

  65. Bergler's first Principle:

    Some Traitors are more Equal than others.

  66. Albob,
    How bout a quote from the late, great,
    Late Night Mordechai Guy?

  67. The Administration did not want Mr Burgler to be amongst the 701 imprisoned per 100,000 residents, doug.

    They thought raising that number to 702, just not prudent.

  68. Pay grade. LOL.

    These "decisions" are as legitimate as the parties that provide the bribes so that these decisions be made. You know it, and I know it.

  69. Re: Mordechai Vanunu. The "story" doesn't sit well with me. I just don't believe it. So I have no opinion on the case.

  70. This comment has been removed by the author.

  71. I ask, "Do we go left or right?" and he says, "Yes." His philosophy is basically, whenever you see the way fork, take it.

    Very Funny.
    The Truth:

    Straight Husband SOP:

    Avoid every possible chance of conflict with The Rib.

  72. It is our country, mat, not yours.
    So we'll manage as we please.

    If your City-State is dependent upon US for its' survival, and will subordinate it's own best interests because of US priorities, that's on you guys, not US.

    But still, regards that true hero, Mordechai Vanunu, what part of the story do you not believe, that he had an interview, that he was kidnapped, that he was imprisoned after he was kidnapped?

  73. When I ride my Motocross bike down Haleakala, and the trail forks around a Giant Eucalyptus,
    I defer making a decision, just to see what fate has in store for me.

  74. New Punch line for the Nutjob:

    "A One Bomb City State."

  75. Pollard may not have been sentenced for what he did as much as for the chilling effect it would have on others with similar intentions.

    Fri Dec 21, 01:31:00 PM EST

    Of course he was sentenced for what he did. Rightly so.

    "Jewish hero for the Jewish people"

    Quite properly, we don't give a damn.

  76. Trish,
    Will Bush have Mercy on Poor little Johnny Walker Lind?

  77. Re: Vanunu. I believe the whole affair was cooked.

    Re: Your country. It is not. That was my point.

  78. I like the old British spy scandals. There was always some leggy broad involved, as I recall.

  79. I woulda figured his experience in that prison basement, with the concussion grenades, gasoline, bullets, and finally a diverted stream might have shaken his new-found faith.

    I apparently was wrong.


  80. Bob:
    Too bad you missed AIT:
    We got to see black and white flicks of all the things we shouldn't do with Women as high-security Army Specialists.

  81. "Will Bush have Mercy on Poor little Johnny Walker Lind?"


  82. Classic:

    doug said...
    When I ride my Motocross bike down Haleakala, and the trail forks around a Giant Eucalyptus,
    I defer making a decision, just to see what fate has in store for me.

    Fri Dec 21, 05:17:00 PM EST

  83. If I were POTUS, I might let his Dad do his son's time, figuring he represents a greater threat to our culture and Public Health than little Johnny.

  84. The Gate's Wide Open List of all the scandals with the suffix 'gate'.
    There's not an honest man on earth.

  85. Because you do not understand our country, mat.

    You may think it should be something it's never been, but it is what it is, I'm sworn to defend it's Constitution against all enemies. Which I have done and would do again.

    But the President, Congress and the Courts are not ALL enemies of that Constitution, not from any reasonable perspective. If we choose to allow foreigners access to our process, then we do.
    The foreigners input is well known, in regards the Sauds, the Israelis, as well as the Chinese.

    No real secrets in any of those cases. Mr Hzu's input into Ms Clinton's campaign public knowledge and factored into the voters decisions.

    Same with the Sauds and the Bush family, Mr Kissiniger, Mitchell and et al.
    Israel and Mr Lieberman, for example.

  86. Deuce,
    I'm going to open a "Pho King" Noodle Shop right next door to my tack shop.
    It will be a buffet, with a que out the front door.

    The Signs will read:

    "Pho Que, and the Horse you rode in On!"

  87. 06/02/2006 Omid "Omid T." T. says:

    there's a Phat Phuc noodle bar in Chelsea, London... With a smiling Buddha for a logo.

  88. "Because you do not understand our country, mat."

    But I do. I understand it all too well. Lady Liberty is a whore. And unabashedly so.

  89. "Pho Queue and the Horse..."

  90. This comment has been removed by the author.

  91. Here, doug, a whole group of folks, for your tack shop.

    More horse adventures in Hawaii than most think

  92. Nobody calls my French Wench a Whore!

  93. Ok, Doug. But did you check that French Wench for fleas? :)

  94. Some how or another I left these two out
    , Parker Ranch

    of Another Hawaiian dude outfit Mendes Ranch

  95. Lots of Portagee Paniolos on Maui.
    Met one I wouldn't mess with:

    He pumped out the sewer plant I managed, drove that Pumper like a Ferrari.

    Said not only did he not sweat the effluent, but put it on wounds!

  96. Parker Ranch is a working cattle ranch on the Island of Hawaii in the state of Hawaii. It is now a charitable trust. The ranch was founded in 1847 and is one of the oldest ranches in the United States, pre-dating many mainland ranches in Texas and other southwestern states by more than 30 years. Spreading approximately 150,000 acres of the island, Parker Ranch is also one of the country’s largest cattle ranches.

    A cowboy on the ranch is called a paniolo.

    During World War II, it was used as a United States Marine Corps training base.

  97. The Boy Scouts have a camp by the Mendes Ranch.
    Used to camp out there, and the kid would clean their clocks at the target range.

  98. Doug, this persona is the straight one, it's the other persona I blog under that is inclined the other way.

  99. "Lady Liberty is a whore."

    Ooooooooooooooooooooh. Good one.

    And a shitty little country with nukes is still a shitty little country.

    But, but, but...Israel is an AAAAAALLLLLLYYYYY of the US.

    So fucking what. So are the French. They steal shit from us all the time. Working your way up, dear vessel.

  100. Lady Liberty is a Whore? Who is the pimp?

  101. T,
    I know, that's why I explained your husband's actions to you!

  102. You're a generally offensive human being mat, and I just want us to understand one another. I think we do.

  103. The Iowa caucus system is cockeyed. You got to show up to take part. Thus disenfranchising all the rest home folk. The rest home vote is big. In our city elections, 'the bitch', who we finally voted out, used to really work that 'rest home vote'. She had students running around getting absentee ballots for 'em. But it ain't fair, this caucus system, these old folk have paid taxes all their life, then all they get is a caucus system.

  104. At least you don't specialize in any one particular way!
    You'd charge extra,
    and you know how that goes...

  105. Doug, haven't you learned yet, you can never believe anything a woman says.

  106. Yeah, AlBob, but Hillary will make sure there's no monkey business.

  107. Se had me all gooey with sympathy over how she couldn't visit her mate in the hospital, or something.

  108. She had
    Damned cheap Chinese keyboard.

  109. Headline says Hillary has 'ordered' her troopers to lower expectations over Iowa.

    "I order you to lower the expectations."

  110. You didn't answer the question, Trish. Again, you are evasive and dishonest. I'm sorry if calling you on that makes me offensive human being, but unlike the anti Semitic French prostitutes you so admire as to emulate, even when I play dirty I play clean.

  111. ^an offensive human being..

  112. You once compared the crewmen of the USS Liberty to Pollard, helped me decide on where to place both your opinions and Israel on my list of concerns.

    The Sauds are right about Israel, and Israelis.

    Bush is wrong about Israel and Palistine, there should be a one State solution, one vote per resident, with open borders to all the folks that the UN classifies as refugees.

    Reform the Levant into one, State, Trans-Jordon. A Constitutional Monarchy, under King AbdullahII. That solution would solve a lot of problems that were imposed upon the residents there, by Europeans.

    The Brits screwed up, royally.

    It's taken a number of years of reading your rants, mat, to come to that conclusion.
    But you have thoughly convinced me.

  113. Bah Hum Bug

    Dick Morris lies like Lucifer. That floating cross was a plant and he knows it.

  114. No, dRat. You were of that disposition already long ago. It's just that now, I've managed to tickle it out of you. :)

  115. Nah, the professional fotog that filmed it never even thot about the significance of that floating white bookshelf.

  116. It was not a plant, it was a bookcase.
    Or maybe a window frame, but I've never seen a plant so linear, bob

  117. At this age, we're all a bit dirty and used.

  118. A one state solution like that would never work. The Israelis might as well move to the North American Union in that case.

  119. No, mat, I was always willing to go with the flow, letting the Europeans have that colony.

    But if you are any indication of the people there, they do not deserve the sacrifices we make to maintain them in their little artifical City-State.

  120. That would acceptable, bob.
    Let 'em move to Nevada
    Trade one moral wasteland for another

  121. If he was as sincere as they say, it woulda been a poinsetta!

  122. I think Dick Morris, who I like to read, is the ho. He'll work for anybody, all the while being for Huckabee behind the scenes. I think it's his subconscious way of buying his way into heaven.

  123. "poinsetta" is Okie for

  124. What's a short guy to do to reach those heights?

  125. Out here they are poinsetters.

  126. Andy Williams is 81 and still going.
    Think he'll be down Rat's way for Christmas.

  127. Yeah, Taters and Poinsetters.

  128. dRat,

    You and the crewmen of the USS Liberty that libel Israel with deliberate wrongdoing are one and the same. As for the Europeans, most Israelis/Jews know very personally who and what they are.

  129. While I'm gone, mat (crazier than shithouse rat) you won't be able to crib my analysis under your own name over at Belmont.

    Gonna have to stick with whatever's rattling around inside that jew-bot head of yours.

    I AM offended, mat. I'm waiting for you to shame your sorry ass out of here.

  130. I'm not even going to bother with that, dRat. This is something you really need to wrestle with on your own.

  131. What exactly are you offended at, Trish?

  132. Oh no, mat.

    This conversation is done.

  133. She's a Perfected Jew!
    Wait til Coulter hears this!

  134. That WAS kind of stupid Question, Mat, since she already told you it was not specific but that you are generally offensive human.
    Like I say, thank the Lord for that, at least I won't have to pay for another damned Jooish Specialist.

  135. You and Rufus would make quite a pair, him being a hot steaming pile of dog vomit, or some such.

    I'm just a paranoid schizo.

    Real Zoo we got here at the Elephant!

  136. The Alderman is Dr. Strangelove.

    Old Trish's discriminatory antennas have'nt lost a db since back when she was active.

  137. What, I'm only supposed to play defense?

  138. Doug: Real Zoo we got here at the Elephant!

    All stink and no think.

  139. Bobal: Dick Morris lies like Lucifer. That floating cross was a plant and he knows it.

    Bobal, in my study of the bible I have come across a lot of hearsay to the effect that the devil is the father of lies, etc, but I never saw an instance of him actually lying. For instance, in the garden, God told Eve that on the day she ate this one piece of fruit she would die, and the devil told her she would not die but her eyes would be opened and she would know the difference between good and evil, and when Eve ate the fruit she didn't die and her eyes were opened, and she knew the difference between good and evil, just like Old Nick said she would.

  140. Mətušélaḥ said...
    "Because you do not understand our country, mat."

    But I do. I understand it all too well. Lady Liberty is a whore. And unabashedly so."

    While I've got to give you credit Mats for a lovely turn of phrase it is a mighty controversial opinion to voice at such an American bar. I was thankful that Deuce had no gun handy when I stoked his ire but that howler will hang around your neck awhile. Not that there isn't some truth to it but at its most basic level it can't be true; for how can the richest, most powerful, nation, whore itself? Can a small nation like Israel really offer the cash, the bounty, (for that is what whores lust after) to entice such a wealthy giant? No, your analysis, as usual, misses the mark by a long shot. The US support of Israel, to date, has been a long, long, way from slumming for some cash - quite the opposite really.

  141. Geez, Tes. And what the hell have you been eating!? :)

  142. "..for how can the richest, most powerful, nation, whore itself?.."

    Fear. Ash. America is the elephant that's deathly afraid of the jihadi mouse. It's an irrational fear, but it's there all the same.

  143. I'll grant you the fear argument as well but that still doesn't explain America's support for Israel. If fear were the main factor Israel would have no support.

  144. This comment has been removed by the author.

  145. No one should take America for granted or deceive themselves that our occasional foolishness is permanent.

  146. Ash, the support is not exclusive to Israel. The support is for the status quo, so that all parties are reliant on the US as kingmaker.

  147. and when Eve ate the fruit she didn't die and her eyes were opened, and she knew the difference between good and evil, just like Old Nick said she would.

    Ha! A typical feminine heretical gnostic interpretation.

    Then Yahweh God said, "See, the man has become like one of us, with his knowledge of good and evil. He must not be allowed to stretch his hand out next and pick from the tree of life also, and eat some and live for ever." So Yahweh God expelled him from the garden of Eden, to till the soil from which he had been taken. He banished the man, and in front of the garden of Eden he posted the cherubs, and the flame of a flashing sword, to guard the way to the tree of life.

    The man had intercourse with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain.

    Him and man must be seen to refer to them both, as how could Adam get it on with Eve, from outside the garden?

    It's said Adam lived something like 900 years, and died, we must assume Eve died sometime as well, as she hadn't eaten of the tree of life. And a day with the Lord is many days.

  148. The Israelis vassals to their whore King.

    Their new age David.

  149. dRat,

    But why whore for jihadi oil when you can whore for zionist oil?

  150. Is whoring for zionist oil a little too undignified for you?

  151. Kanadian Kangaroo Kourt to Konvene--Interview with Hugh Hewitt-Mark Steyn--

    HH: Thank you. I’ve got to start, I want to talk politics with you, but I’ve got to start first to alert the audience. I thought it was a joke, these Muslim radicals bringing complaints against you in Canada. But I’m close to boycotting Canada, because their Human Rights Commission hasn’t thrown this stuff out in the back with the trash.

    MS: Well, the Human Rights Commission up there is, you know, almost the textbook definition of a kangaroo court, in the sense that of the complaints that have been brought under this section, since it was introduced almost thirty years ago now, no defendant has ever won.

    HH: Oh.


    MS: So I may buck the odds, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

    HH: Well, tell people what the process is, what you’re accused of, and I assume this is a pain in the neck.

    MS: Well, it is a pain in the neck. It also has, you know, serious implications, I think, because the Muslim lobby groups have had quite good luck using courts outside the U.S. to block particular books and other ideas that they’re not partial to. And eventually, that does ripple through to New York publishers and so on who don’t want to take a flyer on a book if you won’t be able to sell it in Canada, or get an overseas sale. So it does have implications. But what this is, basically, is a special commission that’s set up, it’s like, think of the most politically correct professors at Berkeley, put them on a commission. The plaintiff, the guys who make the complaints, their legal expenses are paid for by the Canadian taxpayer. The defense has to fund his or her own…essentially, there’s no rules of due process or evidence. And you know, they levy things that would be extraordinary. A woman posted some content on a Christian website in the United States, she’s opposed to homosexuality, she quotes some relevant Biblical passages. The Human Rights Commission banned her from ever publishing in any public forum again those Biblical passages for life, even though they were published on a U.S. website. And if she breaches that order, she’ll go to jail.

    Bruce Kesler at the Democracy Project observes that suing people for implying terrorism has become a bigger business these days.

    There has also been a nice bit of growth in terrorism-related libel actions in London. Nowadays terrorism libel cases make up 13 per cent of the total number of reported claims, compared with 4 per cent in the previous year and 6 per cent in the year before that.

    Cracking down on the critics of Islamism will damage democracy in the long run. Freedom of speech preserves democracy is because it resolves social conflicts in the open, within the political process. Repressing debate is not only bad in the abstract, it is often disastrous in practice. The Left has always had statist and repressive tendencies. The history of every militant Communist party has been the history of repression. In practically every case, schism has resulted from the practice of "democratic centralism". Why should it be different in societies where the same types of policies are carried out in the guise of preventing "hate speech"? It won't be different.

  152. Now, who could possibly find this offensive?

  153. This comment has been removed by the author.

  154. Oxymoronic, zionist oil

    Doesn't exist

    Israel hides behind it walls, even those cannot provide security to it's school children.
    The Israeli civilians bemoaning the daily rocket attacks from Gaza while their leaders hide under their beds, looking for salvation from their whore King.
    On their knees in prayer that King George43, their modern day David, will protect them.
    He and his consort, Condi

    The Isreali not having the balls to clear even Gaza, without the permission of their whore King.

    Let alone go for the oil. The vaunted Israeli Army stopped dead in it's tracks, 3 miles into Lebanon. While the rockets rained down on Haifa for over a month, it's people cowering in basements or fleeing in fear to Tel Aviv.

    Fanatasy world you're living in, amigo. zionist oil, your mind or vision is clouded, living so far from land the British gifted to the zionists.

    Talking the talk, but living far from the walk. Seeiking personal safety and security under the US's SPP umbrella.

    zionist oil, the Isreali import 250,000 barrels a day, they are a dry hole. Their oenergy comes from around the world
    Traditionally, Israel has relied on expensive, long-term contracts with nations like Mexico (oil), Norway (oil), the United Kingdom (oil), Australia (coal), South Africa (coal), and Colombia (coal) for its energy supplies

    Oh and recently the Egyptians have been selling Israel oil, true zionists, there in Egypt.

    You say the Israeli are puppets on the US string and that the US is a Saudi whore. You'll be kissing your sectarian City-State goodbye, from a distance, if you are right.

  155. Your Steyn stuff is why Mat's wrong here, AlBob:

    "Fear. Ash. America is the elephant that's deathly afraid of the jihadi mouse. It's an irrational fear, but it's there all the same."

    We're well on our way to use the Muslims, Mexicans, or whoever will provide good cover, as an excuse to commit (multi) cultural suicide, and I'd rather fight than switch, myself.

  156. Steyn says subscribe to Macleans Mag, or whoever it is that publishes him.

  157. It's the boners, doug, not the mussulmen or the mexicans.

    Both are pawns in the game,

    This fellow will soon be the King Saud, he is no jihadist, but a boner in his heart. Smooth in the halls of power. Like the Bush family, royal lineage, gained and self proclaimed.

    Fighter jocks, the both of them.
    Neither flying in combat, but with all the bravado that goes with the flight suit.

    Prince Bandar graduated from the British Royal Air Force College at Cranwell, England, in 1968 and was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF). He received pilot training in the United Kingdom and the United States, and has flown numerous fighter aircraft including the JP 3-4, T-38, T-33, F-5, F-53/55, F-102, and the F-15. During his seventeen-year military career he attained the rank of lieutenant colonel, commanded fighter squadrons at three RSAF bases, and undertook program management responsibilities in the major RSAF modernization project Peace Hawk. In addition, Prince Bandar carried out special assignments in Washington, DC, during the debates between the U.S. administration and the Congress concerning the sale to Saudi Arabia of F-15s in 1978 and of AWACs in 1981. In 1982 he was assigned to Washington, DC, as the Kingdom's defense attach�.

    Prince Bandar completed his postgraduate work in several U.S. military schools including staff courses with the Air Command and Staff College at Maxwell Air Force Base in Montgomery, Alabama, and with the Industrial College of the Armed Forces at Fort McNair in Washington, DC. He received his master's degree in international public policy from the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies, Washington, DC, in 1980.

    Start with those drivers licenses requirements, there in Hawaii, doug.

  158. That's the first fight.

    If you can't win there, you won't win anywhere.

    But is a national ID, chip emplanted really "winning"?

    Or just what the boners want, Federally manufactured fear and then a solution more draconian than the problem.

  159. Doug,

    When you enter here, you leave your racist sectarian prejudices at the door. Not that the oxymoronic dRat has anything against them. But, what's good enough for the morally bankrupted Israel, should be good enough for the morally bankrupted US of A.

  160. The Stratfor man, the Sauds money, recycled into the US, but with fewer controls than domestic funding. Unaccaountable to local governence, global ownership of all majr assets.

    Whose theme is that?
    Certainly not Mohammeds

  161. Zion Oil and Gas
    Exists on paper anyway. I don't know I'd put much faith in their exploratory methods though, as I think they may be based on Biblical passages. You'd be as likely to find the ark on Mt. Ararat, using that method.

  162. Your folk dance on the end of my county's string, mat. You say so all the time.

    But they will not cut it
    That's on them. Suckling at a whore teat, your people sons of a US whore.

    They abandon their heros, disowning them publicly.
    For years on end.

    Like any good whore, Israel dances for what are they called, sheqalim?

    Dance for one, fuck for five?

    Greasing themselves with Eqyptian oils

  163. Zenster via The Belmont Club:

    Photovoltaic solar power is nice but in no way overcomes issues like peak demand or the vagaries of inclement weather. Look for the real breakthroughs with solar power in the form of nanoparticles.

    Imagine ceramic-style or shingle-type roofing tiles with a grommet in each upper corner. These are nailed onto staggered rows of conductors running across the roof trusses. The tiles are coated with a nanosphere-laden compound bearing particles tuned exactly to the predominant wavelengths of light impinging upon their surface. A building's entire roof would become one massive photovoltaic array at nearly the same cost as standard construction materials.

    Going one step further, imagine these same nano particles dispersed in ordinary paint such that a building's entire external surface becomes one huge solar power collector.

    These are among some of the quantum leaps awaiting solar power generation. They absolutely dwarf the cost efficiency of any current monocrystalline silicon wafer or polysilicon ribbon based substrate technologies. However, none of these applications preclude the need for nuclear or fusion-based bulk power generation.

    Fortunately, Robert Bussard, inventor of the ramjet, is currently working on a compact fusion reactor with a radius of about 2.5-3 meters burning hydrogen and Boron-11 that produces some 4500-8000 megawatts.

    Functional fusion technology still represents a vital component in energy independence and needs lavish funding to get us off of the oil tit right away.

  164. According to my lights, Israel is the only sane country in the region, which doesn't make 'em perfect of course. If we're on the Saudi tit, it's our damn fault, going back many administrations, of both parties, and foolish congresses. As we discussed once before, it seems nobody really runs the United States, each congressman looking out for their own ass. But unlike Canada, we
    've still got free speech here, and it looks to me like it can truthfully be said, they really don't in Canada.

    Ladies and Gentlemen, prayer is a good thing.

  165. There's a BIG difference, dRat.

    Israel does it because it is small and it has to, not because it likes to. You sleep with the Saudis because you like it, because you certainly don't have to.

  166. zionist oil, funniest thing that's been claimed all day.

    The Israel Army couldn't even cross the Litani River of Lebanon. Or clear the Gaza.

    Then tell us that the US is afraid of the jihadi. Makes me laugh,

    When it is Israel that cowers in fear, Hiding behind walls of concrete and steel, then calling it a "fence", because the truth hurts their pride.

    So afraid of the Palistinians they will not let them transit freely internaly, within the West Bank.

    Using Russian mercenaries to guard those walls. Because the native born Israeli emigrate to Canada and the United States, as fast as they can get a visa and work permit.

  167. Not because we like to Mat, because were lazy, slothful, without vision, run by congress, have a green party influence, coal influence, all sorts of shit, can't drill off the coasts, Alaska, so far it's just been easier buying from the arabs.

  168. dRat,

    Israel does what it does out of consideration for the US. But you keep pushing, and it may all blows in your face.

  169. Bob,

    The US imports relatively little from the ME. Why not let others deal with the Arabs. Why keep supporting them?

  170. This comment has been removed by the author.

  171. No excuses based on your lack of size, mat, your people are whores, dancing on a string, for a sheckel or two.

    The US sleeps with whom we please and whom pleases US. As befits the King of the Jews.

    Your City-State a figment of fallacy that our relationship with the Sauds allows your folk to maintain.

    If we end our symbiotic relationship with the Sauds, that'll be the end of Israel,
    We influencing their choices and behaviours more than they influence US.

    Be careful what you wish for. Many here in the US are trying to abide those wishes. When they succeed, the unforeseen consequence will not be to your liking.

    Sure, Israel and it's nukes can kill 60 ro 100 million mussulmen, but it'd still be the end of Israel.

    I've got a table and a sheckel, do a little dance for me.

  172. It's true our imports from the middle east are down, but oil flows around. We got to get off imports from where ever the origin. I'm not the President, Mat, if I was I wouldn't sign a budget bill until we had an energy program that cuts us free. I can't stand the arabs, you know that.

  173. The arabs will be able to sell to somebody for a long time to come, practically forever. Our influence with them might be a little kinder, gentler vis a vis Israel than say China. I think the people in China couldn't give a damn about Israel.
    I'd be happy to see Israel in NATO, if it would do any good.

  174. I know, Bob. I know we all feel the same, including dRat and Trish. This aggression is misplaced. But we need to start knocking down some doors, and soon. This psychological paralysis will do us all in.

  175. On that note, Coast-To-Coast and dreamland for me. Night.

  176. "If we end our symbiotic relationship with the Sauds, that'll be the end of Israel,.."

    Take away the oil. Remove the oil facilities from the map. Why should the Jihadis be allowed to threaten and blackmail anyone?

  177. "This psychological paralysis will do us all in"
    That's what I was sayin, in my way Mat, hope you didn't take it another in the midst of the volleys from 'Rat and Trish.