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Saturday, September 24, 2011

Snapshot of a Sick Society


"Teen", have a great day!

by Victor Davis Hanson

Quite often a brief news story sums up the collective pathologies of postmodern American society. Here is a recent tragic news item from my local paper, followed by some commentary:

Police call slaying of Hanford woman a random act
Posted at 6:04 p.m. on Thursday, July 28, 2011
By Paula Lloyd / The Fresno Bee

A woman found slain at a Hanford car wash this week was killed randomly when a 17-year-old gang member happened to see her while taking a walk, Hanford police said Thursday.

Denise McVay was washing her car — something she did several times a week — early Tuesday morning before work.

The teen was wandering the streets after leaving a party when he saw McVay at the Royal Car Wash on Garner Avenue at about 5 a.m. and decided to kill her, police said.

The teen “simply wanted to kill somebody that night” and McVay, 49, was “in the wrong place at the wrong time,” Capt. Parker Sever said. “It was a purely random act.”

The teen stabbed McVay several times and slit her throat.

The teen took McVay’s money and her car, Sever said, and drove to the home of a fellow gang member, Mauricio Ortiz, 18, of Hanford. Sever said the teen was covered with blood and told Ortiz what he had done.

Ortiz helped him ditch the car at Tachi Palace Casino and went with him to Visalia Mall, where the teen used McVay’s money to buy clean clothes, Sever said.

The teen, whose name was not released because of his age, was booked into the Kings County Juvenile Center on suspicion of murder. Ortiz was booked into the Kings County Jail on suspicion of being an accessory after the fact.

Walk through this story to learn something about our confused American society. First, note the discrepancy between the employed Ms. McVay — washing her car in the early morning hours on her way to work, apparently intent on having a clean automobile when she arrived — and the unidentified youth who, we are told at first, was “taking a walk,” later expanded into “wandering the streets after leaving a party.” How did we go so nonchalantly in a mere two paragraphs from “taking a walk” to “wandering the streets after leaving a party”?

In our present society, an able-bodied young man of 17 has leisure to walk about at 5 a.m. after a night of partying, while a hard-working woman squeezes in such an early morning moment to wash her car in order to appear presentable at work.

Note, furthermore, that our society has no compunction about letting the world know the identity of Ms. Denise McVay, who was horribly murdered and left dead on the pavement of a car wash. But it is worried that we might learn the name of the “17-year-old gang member,” also known as an anonymous “teen.” Yet why are we, as a society, more sensitive to disclosing the identity of a gang-member and suspected killer than of a slain productive worker?

In the transition from a shame culture to a guilt culture, America has become a confused society that values the sensitivities of the felonious living far more than respect for the law-abiding dead. Could it not simply waive anonymity protocols in cases of capital crimes? If 16- or 17-year-old would-be murderers knew that their names, addresses, and photos would be published on commission of a crime, would that create any deterrence to their viciousness — or at least provide solace to the community that barbaric killers do not slide so easily through the special exemptions afforded to immature “teens”?

Unfortunately, the story only becomes more depressing. We next read that the anonymous teen “simply wanted to kill somebody that night,” and, unfortunately, Ms. McVay, 49, was “in the wrong place at the wrong time.” So a Capt. Parker Sever goes on to characterize the fact that “the teen stabbed McVay several times and slit her throat” as “a purely random act.”


The law-enforcement officer, who no doubt means well, nonetheless describes a productive worker, striving to clean her car, as “in the wrong place at the wrong time.” But in fact, it is the anonymous teen who is in the wrong place at the wrong time — as if civilization could possibly continue if the majority followed his wrong hours and wrong behavior. Ms. McVay, in fact, was in the right place at the right time, and she should have had every expectation that she could go to the car wash before work without worry that a murderous gang-banger would slit her throat.

What sort of abjectly amoral society have we become when we metaphorically reduce a productive life to being “in the wrong place at the wrong time” — only to worry that the teen murder suspect and his family might suffer from the disclosure of his identity? Perhaps our civilization and our police forces, in fact, are in the wrong places and at the wrong times when we cannot ensure Ms. McVay the humane expectation of basic safety.

Nor do I think that the killing was quite “a purely random act,” for two reasons: (1) I suspect any gang member, as is the wont of such thugs, has had prior brushes with the law, so the latest may well have been a logical escalation of accustomed gang-related behavior. And (2) the “teen” stole Ms. McVay’s car and cash. That suggests that the murder was in some sense a means to an end as well. Apparently law enforcement terms it a “purely random act” because the unidentified killer, or his post facto accomplice, savvy to the legal consequences of premeditated violence, claims that he saw Ms. McVay and abruptly “decided to kill her.” But why believe a murderer or his associate, when it is at least as likely that the gang-banger left his all-night party looking for somebody to rob and commit violence against?

In truth, the teen was an opportunistic predator, on the prowl for an easy victim, which translated into profiling a woman alone. His killing was “random” only to the extent that had he encountered instead three large men washing down a truck at 5 a.m., he surely would have kept his blade sheathed and passed on by with no thought that he “simply wanted to kill somebody that night.” In short, he did not want to kill just anybody that night: He wanted instead to stab an easy somebody, who might offer little resistance, and perhaps take cash and car as a bonus.

Examine what happens next: The murderous teen then “drove to the home of a fellow gang member, Mauricio Ortiz, 18, of Hanford . . . the teen was covered with blood and told Ortiz what he had done. Ortiz helped him ditch the car at Tachi Palace Casino and went with him to Visalia Mall, where the teen used McVay’s money to buy clean clothes.”

The bloody murderer shows up unexpectedly at the home of a friend. Mr. Ortiz apparently decides that such gore is not all that shocking, and so does not suggest that the teen turn himself in, but rather, almost by second nature, helps him to hide the crime. Both gang members apparently know well both the parking lot of the Tachi Palace Casino and the Visalia Mall, where they respectively ditch the car and buy new clothes with the deceased’s hard-earned money. The familiar haunts of a casino and mall do not readily suggest elemental poverty. And did the murderer and his accomplice really go to the mall to buy “clean” clothes? I think it would be more accurate to suggest “new” clothes — given that both undoubtedly had existing spare clothing. Why must we be insulted by taking at face value any such tale, gleaned from either the killer or his accomplice?

It leads us to wonder how many Mauricio Ortizes there are in our area, who at the first suggestion of lucre are quite ready to try to cover up a bloody murder and spend the victim’s cash. If the time comes when there are more of them than there are Denise McVays, civilization is finished.

We end this morality tale with society’s now-standard self-righteous declaration, “The teen, whose name was not released because of his age . . .” — as if we have evolved morally from a hundred years ago, when the suspect would have enjoyed no such exemption. But what really was “his age,” and did it matter whether the anonymous suspect killer who butchered the hard-working Ms. McVay was chronologically 17 or 50? The original intent of the law was apparently to protect the immature pre-adult, but it has now the effect of directing society’s empathy to a sophisticated anonymous killer and away from his publicly identified victim. Note as well that the murder suspect himself earns only Juvenile Hall; his post facto accessory rates the harder county jail — another of a sick society’s messages that we calibrate age far more than savagery.

I have no doubt that in the next two years a good deal of society’s capital will be invested in this unidentified youth and his named accomplice. Preliminary hearings, state-paid public defenders, an array of psychiatrists, and periodic proclamations from the defense team about particular childhood traumas suffered by the killer — all to be followed by years of legal counsel, further psychological examinations and treatment, and of course, if there is a conviction, nearly $40,000 a year in incarceration expenses — as our fast-paced society races onward and upward, without much thought of one productive citizen, Denise McVay, washing her car in the early morning on her way to work. None of us are exempt from such terrible arithmetic, and we now must live with the realization that tomorrow morning any one of us could be written off as either unlucky or unwise in our demise, while the rights of our killer would be obsessed over.

You see, it is characteristic of a morally bankrupt society to be absorbed with the evil living without much remembrance of the more noble dead.

The former gang member and his family by all means must not be embarrassed; the dead woman is reduced to being “in the wrong place at the wrong time.”

Enough said.



©2011 Victor Davis Hanson

149 comments:

  1. What sort of abjectly amoral society have we become when we metaphorically reduce a productive life to being “in the wrong place at the wrong time” — only to worry that the teen murder suspect and his family might suffer from the disclosure of his identity? Perhaps our civilization and our police forces, in fact, are in the wrong places and at the wrong times when we cannot ensure Ms. McVay the humane expectation of basic safety.

    Nor do I think that the killing was quite “a purely random act,” for two reasons:

    (1) I suspect any gang member, as is the wont of such thugs, has had prior brushes with the law, so the latest may well have been a logical escalation of accustomed gang-related behavior.

    And (2) the “teen” stole Ms. McVay’s car and cash. That suggests that the murder was in some sense a means to an end as well. Apparently law enforcement terms it a “purely random act” because the unidentified killer, or his post facto accomplice, savvy to the legal consequences of premeditated violence, claims that he saw Ms. McVay and abruptly “decided to kill her.”

    But why believe a murderer or his associate, when it is at least as likely that the gang-banger left his all-night party looking for somebody to rob and commit violence against?

    In truth, the teen was an opportunistic predator, on the prowl for an easy victim, which translated into profiling a woman alone.

    His killing was “random” only to the extent that had he encountered instead three large men washing down a truck at 5 a.m., he surely would have kept his blade sheathed and passed on by with no thought that he “simply wanted to kill somebody that night.”

    In short, he did not want to kill just anybody that night: He wanted instead to stab an easy somebody, who might offer little resistance, and perhaps take cash and car as a bonus.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Most of my mother's family lived within 30 miles of Hanford.
    My Grandmother and father raised them in the tiny town of Stratford, a few miles to the West.

    We used to marvel at the difference in people and culture as you drove inland 75 miles from the Coast.
    More down to Earth, forthright, and unpretentious.
    More "Midwest" or rural, family values.

    In my lifetime, the great irrigation projects plus these values produced incredibly vibrant and productive communities.

    The Central Valley grew produce for much of the nation, and exported large volumes of agricultural commodities.

    Schools ranked near the top in the nation, and California led the World in Agriculture and Innovation.

    Now the entire place has gone to shit.
    How 'Rat calls this progress, or "spreading our values" is beyond me.

    The "values" of Hispanic Gang Cultures have little to do with what traditionally were "our values."

    ReplyDelete
  3. Rufus can skip this since it pisses him off that I have linked it a few times before!

    I still find it riveting, and a lot more revealing than hours of banter about whether we are "spreading our values" or not.

    ---
    Two Californias

    Diversity? What diversity?

    Do diversity concerns, as in lack of diversity, work both ways? Over a hundred-mile stretch, when I stopped in San Joaquin for a bottled water, or drove through Orange Cove, or got gas in Parlier, or went to a corner market in southwestern Selma, my home town, I was the only non-Hispanic — there were no Asians, no blacks, no other whites.

    We may speak of the richness of “diversity,” but those who cherish that ideal simply have no idea that there are now countless inland communities that have become near-apartheid societies, where Spanish is the first language, the schools are not at all diverse, and the federal and state governments are either the main employers or at least the chief sources of income — whether through emergency rooms, rural health clinics, public schools, or social-service offices.

    An observer from Mars might conclude that our elites and masses have given up on the ideal of integration and assimilation, perhaps in the wake of the arrival of 11 to 15 million illegal aliens.

    ---

    Here are some general observations about what I saw (other than that the rural roads of California are fast turning into rubble, poorly maintained and reverting to what I remember seeing long ago in the rural South). First, remember that these areas are the ground zero, so to speak, of 20 years of illegal immigration.

    There has been a general depression in farming — to such an extent that the 20- to-100-acre tree and vine farmer, the erstwhile backbone of the old rural California, for all practical purposes has ceased to exist.

    Manufacturing plants in the towns in these areas — which used to make harvesters, hydraulic lifts, trailers, food-processing equipment — have largely shut down; their production has been shipped off overseas or south of the border.

    Many of the rural trailer-house compounds I saw appear to the naked eye no different from what I have seen in the Third World. There is a Caribbean look to the junked cars, electric wires crisscrossing between various outbuildings, plastic tarps substituting for replacement shingles, lean-tos cobbled together as auxiliary housing, pit bulls unleashed, and geese, goats, and chickens roaming around the yards.

    It is almost as if the more California regulates, the more it does not regulate. Its public employees prefer to go after misdemeanors in the upscale areas to justify our expensive oversight industry, while ignoring the felonies in the downtrodden areas, which are becoming feral and beyond the ability of any inspector to do anything but feel irrelevant.

    But in the regulators’ defense, where would one get the money to redo an ad hoc trailer park with a spider web of illegal bare wires?

    ReplyDelete
  4. "The Okie's of the "Great Migration" had a similar impact, in California.
    Those Grapes of Wrath, bitter indeed.
    "

    You could not be more wrong:
    The impact of those migrants from Oklahoma, or Missourri, in the case of my mom's family, could not be more different.
    The values they brought with them, and the lack of a Welfare State to demoralize them, brought much that was once good to the state.

    The impact of Welfare and illegal aliens, quite the opposite.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Sorry Doug. Did not see it. Funny enough I was looking forward to something from someone other than me.

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  6. The teen really should have been enrolled at Berkley, on your dime of course.

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  7. Authorities said a bullet narrowly missed hitting a little girl sound asleep in bed after suspects fired two shots into her south Hanford home.
    The bullet punched through an outer wall, traveled through two rooms and passed just three feet over the sleeping child late Monday night, police Lt. George Hernandez said Tuesday. No one was injured in the attack.
    Officers were initially called out to the 1100 block of Wren Drive when the homeowner reported hearing shots fired around 10 p.m. Police searched the area and turned up no suspects or any immediate evidence of a shooting, Hernandez said.
    But officers were called back the following morning when the homeowner discovered two bullet holes puncturing his home.
    “We believe this might be gang-related and are hoping the public comes forward with information leading us to those responsible,” Hernandez said. “These gang attacks are getting worse lately and we’re very concerned about them.”
    Hernandez said that while shooting calls are reported almost every night, they don’t often come from the south Hanford neighborhoods close to 12th Avenue.


    Read more: http://www.hanfordsentinel.com/news/local/article_85e6be92-e539-11e0-8a3d-001cc4c002e0.html#ixzz1Ys1BVkdJ

    ReplyDelete
  8. T, check your mail. I removed your comment to protect your privacy. Keep the faith baby.

    ReplyDelete
  9. The name of the teen is "Jose Saldana". His victim was white. No hate crime there of course.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Snapshot of a sick blog.

    Why isn't WiO up there?

    ????

    No answer.

    We would rather listen to Melody's music.

    Come on Melody, you would rather listen to "Dance With The Waters" or "Dance With the Stars" than put a little pressure on deuce to answer a straight question?

    Is that all you people are back in the east there?

    And I get buzzed for not trying to create an equal society? A christian society? Deuce's Christian society?

    It's all about music, and bling?

    This place is getting really really geting sick.

    I ASK AGAIN WHY ISN'T WiO UP THERE?

    We know Melody's answer -- they are all LAZY -- as she sits and blogs.

    Serious question, which she can't answer, but deuce should be able to come up with something.

    He has all the formula for the great society.

    I ask again,

    WHY ISN'T WiO UP THERE??

    The silence is deafening.
    b

    While my ancestors built the University of Idaho.

    This place is becoming a farce.

    It was people like us, O Great Deuce, that made your education possible.


    b

    ReplyDelete
  11. I hate non-productive bitching, and moaning. I've been asked to meet with the Supt. of one of our local school systems next week to present my ideas about teaching "Computer" languages, and programming at the 7 - 12 level.

    We have to move our children in the direction of the "future." A young man that sees an opportunity to make money, and get some of that honey is much less likely to do shit like this. A young man without hope is a dangerous animal to have in your midst.

    ReplyDelete
  12. And have taken care of, and studied, Down's syndrome kids the best we can. And tried to come up with the best answer we can.

    So we get back a bunch of music and a tax bill.

    I ask again, what the hell have YOU done.

    And I can tell you the answer already.

    NOTHING

    SO I ASK AGAIN, WHY ISN'T WiO UP THERE WITH YOU SOCIETY CREATORS???

    YOU ARE BECOMING A FARCE DEUCE.



    b

    ReplyDelete
  13. Bob, why don't you look WIO up, and you guys can take a warm, soapy shower together. Then you can find your own blog to hang out.

    Most of us very rarely read WIO's posts, and pay very little attention to your own (esp. when you're clearly "off your meds."

    ReplyDelete
  14. And you are too, Melody, if you won't help pressure deuce to answer a simple question.

    WHY IS NOT WiO UP THERE WITH THE OTHER INTELLECTUAL GIANTS OF THIS SICK PLACE????

    Melody?????

    b

    ReplyDelete
  15. Sorry Bob, wrong again. You didn't do shit to add anything to my life. You ended up where you are and with what you have because your ancestors were dog-ass poor, left the poverty of their birthplace and settled on land stolen from the rightful and ancestral owners.

    You come from squatters and opportunists. When your family made money, you threw some scraps from the table. Nothing new there.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Answer O Melody!!
    b

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  17. If I don't get no cogent answer even from Doug all you people are SICK.

    b

    ReplyDelete
  18. Go to bed, Bob. You're being a bore-ass.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Bob, you forgot the first commandment of blogging: THOU SHALT NOT SUCK

    Putin "agreed" to run for Russian President. Surprise.

    An Illegal Alien, a Muslim and a Marxist go into a bar. The bartender asks: "What can I get you, Mr. President?

    ReplyDelete
  20. You didn't do shit to add anything to my life.

    That is not the point dumb ass.

    You didn't do shit to add anything to my life either.

    I ASK AGAIN O GREAT ONE WHY IS WiO EXCLUDED FROM YOUR O SO GREAT BLOG??

    Actually we did do something to add to your life, we tried to create a just society, at least here.

    WE CREATED A COLLEGE FROM WHICH FOLKS CAN GET AN EDUCATION.

    ANSWER WHY IS WiO excluded from your STARS??

    RUFUS??

    You are an injun.

    Out here the lawyers when they where trying to create a most just society called all the Indian cases a "Feather in you Cap" case.

    I want a cogent answer.

    WHY REALLY IS WiO excluded.

    He is the one that has the most knowledge about the mid east.

    THIS PLACE IS BECOMING A TOON.

    GOT ANY ANSWER MELODY?

    b

    ReplyDelete
  21. California is always an interesting State to observe, because they're, always, for better or for worst, out in front of the Parade.

    California is a tripwire. What's happening in California is coming to a State near you in ten years.

    ReplyDelete
  22. And, leave Melody alone. Most of us would trudge by 100 carloads of your nonsense to get to one of Melody's comments, horoscopes, or songs.

    As for WIO: most of us are just tired to the bone of the Religious Craziness in the Mideast.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Rufus: California is a tripwire. What's happening in California is coming to a State near you in ten years.

    They're tripping over themselves getting out of California and moving to Utah.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Because your kid is getting the benefit of ALL THE SOCIAL EFFORT like my wife and I have done to help.

    AND YOU WILL NOT ANSWER.

    Deuce's answer is - let them die. It goes back to Greece.

    I ASK AGAIN FOR A COGENT ANSWER AS TO WHY WIO is excluded.

    Deuce, I respect your abilities in all your areas, but you don't know shit about law.

    AND THIS PLACE HERE IS BECOMING A FARCE.

    A PlACE TO LISTEN TO SOME MUSIC.

    WHERE ARE YOU MELODY WHEN PEOPLE LIKE US HAVE WORKED FOR YOUR CHILD? AND YOU WON'T COME TO A SIMPLE ANSWER.


    Why is WiO excluded from the dance with the stars.

    WHEN IT WAS PEOPLE LIKE WiO' PEOPLE THAT WROTE MANY OF THE TEXTS THAT ALLOWED US TO HELP CHILDREN LIKE YOURS.

    I ASK AGAIN FOR A COGENT ANSWER AS TO WHY WiO IS EXCLUDED FROM THE O SO GREAT LIST OF THE STARS.

    Jesus deuce it stands out like a sore thumb.

    WHERE ARE YOU MELODY WHEN SOCIETY HAS TRIED TO HELP?

    WATCHING TV?

    I ASK A SERIOUS QUESTION. JEWSISH PEOPLE HAVE ADDED GREATLY TO OUR SOCIETY. And in the study of Downs Kids.

    And yet Melody just wants to play some toons.

    ANSWER MELODY-- WHY IS WiO excluded?

    YOU HAVE ADDED NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO THE INTELLECTUAL CONTENT OF THIS BLOG.

    I want to know, why is W i O excluded.

    You people most of you make me sick.

    b

    ReplyDelete
  25. We're at 9.1% Unemployment, and falling back into what looks like could be a long period of recession, near recession, slow growth, recession.

    The Middle Class is getting hollowed out at an alarming rate, and it's starting to look like the "thirties" all over again.

    In all this, the only thing I remember you posting that was the slightest bit interesting was the price of hay (and, now, chickpeas.)

    All WIO posts is the same tiresome drudge about Israel, Palestinians, and, every other day, some insane screed about "Nuking a small city" to destroy a rock.

    Go to Bed.

    ReplyDelete
  26. I WANT TO KNOW RUFUS WHY WiO IS EXCLUDED, THAT IS ALL I AM ASKING

    a cogent answer from the great reader of Atlas Shrugged.

    That is all I want, a cogent answer.

    It doesn't have anything to do with Melody rufus.

    b

    ReplyDelete
  27. All you post is your tiresome shit about ethanol.

    I am glad you are going to bed.
    Stay there.

    deuce can't answer.

    b

    ReplyDelete
  28. Last time, to shut you up. I am not interested in a daily verbal carpet bombing about Israel. It bores me.

    ReplyDelete
  29. While slowly surely there are many Jews working quietly at there studies trying to help kids like Melody's.

    Drink your GUTS OUT RUFUS.

    You disgust me.

    ALL I CARE ABOUT IS FAMILY RUFII.

    You are an ignoramus.

    b

    ReplyDelete
  30. Because no one, and most especially, the owner of the blog, likes what he contributes, Bob. It's tiresome, and, quite often, nuts.

    And, I just woke up, Bob. That "go to bed" was advice for you. You're embarrassing yourself, again.

    ReplyDelete
  31. In a proposed rule from Secretary Kathleen Sebelius and the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), the federal government is demanding insurance companies submit detailed health care information about their patients.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Doug put up a Serious Post. I don't agree with a lot of VDH, but, at least, we could respect Doug's effort enough to not go off on a crazy Off-topic tangent right off the bat.

    ReplyDelete
  33. WIO can post whatever he likes in the comment section. I only delete his false, unsubstantiated and libelous comments about another poster on his blog. That is not taking sides.

    ReplyDelete
  34. AND A KNOWING JEW CAN'T GET A FAIR HEARING HERE.


    A JEW THAT KNOWS THE MIDEAST.

    WHY O GREAT DEUCE??????

    SO WE LISTEN TO MELODY'S SONGS?

    YOU GOT TO BE SHITTING ME, THERE IS NO DISCUSSION HERE WORTH A SHIT AT ALL.

    b

    ReplyDelete
  35. I do not recall Melody posting anything about her children. From this post forward everything you post that mentions Melody or her family will be deleted.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Bullshit, the other commenter has his rights but you have just said.....o for fuck sake......the other does not....just show your personality deuce, as if you haven't already.

    In the terms of the law you are prejudging.

    Let them debate on equal terms.
    b

    ReplyDelete
  37. Bob: YOU GOT TO BE SHITTING ME, THERE IS NO DISCUSSION HERE WORTH A SHIT AT ALL.

    Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Why isn't WiO a bartender? You are that fucking stupid that you would trust him with the keys to this place? Obviously so.

    ReplyDelete
  39. OK fine, that is good, but I know what I speak of.

    ANSWER THE GODDAMN QUESTION, THAT IS JUST A DIVERSION.
    WHAT IS THE REAL REASON WiO, the only one knows shit about the mideast, is EXCLUDED???

    THE REAL REASON, because he has a great poster, and knows stuff, he called the Egyptian thing.

    I am getting disgusted.

    It ain't about Melody's child.

    It is about you.

    b

    ReplyDelete
  40. WiO is whack job. You too boobie.

    ReplyDelete
  41. What would you say, Miss T, if you were excluded because you are Phillipino??

    b

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  42. Dead Federal Government Retirees Paid $601 Million

    Great work if you can get it.

    ReplyDelete
  43. It is people like us have given you your rights.


    How is the tennis game going?

    b

    ReplyDelete
  44. First off, let me say this: Half of my damned family are Doctors. When we have a family reunion "I'm" the one that's "Not the Doctor." And, I like'm all. I have nothing but the greatest respect for Doctors, and all things Medical in America.

    Having said that, T, I don't know the particulars of what you are referring, but I do know that some Doctors are badly abusing the system. When these abuses are paid for by you, and I, through Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIIP, and other Government Programs the government needs to get more involved.

    I would appreciate any information you could provide as to, exactly, what HHS has in mind.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Good, attack me all you like. Make it about me. I think I can handle that.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Bob: What would you say, Miss T, if you were excluded because you are Phillipino??

    I am American. My mom and dad are Filipino.

    I excluded myself because WiO was kvetching about a "Nazi" being on the bartender roll. It didn't shut him up, so now I'm back. Whit's gone and Deuce needs a break sometimes.

    ReplyDelete
  47. boobie, your answer, from the father of our country.



    The foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing is a vice so mean and low that every person of sense and character detests and despises it.

    George Washington

    ReplyDelete
  48. There is a Nazi on the Great Roll.

    And deuce is an enabler.

    I am getting really pissed.

    I want an answer.

    Why is WiO excluded, an obviously superior man than that shit from Arizona.

    Why??


    Come on Rufus, I am putting you to the test.

    b

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  49. Michael Moore threatened violence against the "rich" (ie hard working Americans). He wants to eat them.

    If he spontaneously combusted it would be one hell of a bacon grease fire.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Bob, if it was up to me I would have banned all comments from any ISP in Idaho a long time ago.

    ReplyDelete
  51. He did not "call" the Egyptian thing, you moron.

    The Army is still in charge, in Egypt.

    Has been for decades, well before Mubarak was elevated.
    Well before Sadat was murdered.
    You do remember Gamal Abdel Nasser, no?

    The US much better positioned now, vis a vie Egypt ,than then.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Why not, T? He's, obviously, eaten about everything else. :)

    ReplyDelete





  53. We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all.


    Theodore Roosevelt

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  54. I want an answer from deuce not some more shit from Arizona.

    We are dealing with a real issue here.

    What is the real reason WiO is excluded?

    I want a cogent answer to this. My family has tried to build a good society here.

    I want to know why, the real reason, not some shit about monothematic, why is WiO excluded from the BIG LIST??

    I ask but no cogent reply.

    b

    ReplyDelete
  55. Bob,
    Enough. You can't just put anyone behind the bar. Bar tending is an art. You must know how to mix a cocktail with loving care, lend a caring ear, and not over serve.

    Gently stop and give us a wolf update.

    ReplyDelete
  56. I don't think Deuce could have explained it in any more simpler terms. I think it's precise and to the point. I also don't think he needs to repeat himself.

    EOS…End of story


    WIO was not given keys to the gate because he does not need them. 80-90% of what WIO says is all about Israel. He is often a prolific poster of cut and paste about Israel.

    HE WILL POST THAT REGARDLESS OF THE SUBJECT. HE CANNOT HELP HIMSELF.

    WIO has full reign to post what he likes. He has been moderated by me no more than 4-5 times. You on the other hand Bob have been moderated many times.

    ReplyDelete
  57. You are an ignoramus rufus, but a likeable one.

    I ASK WHY IS NOT WiO UP THERE IN LIGHTS LIKE THE GREAT RUFUS WHO IS STUNNED WITH THE PROSPECT OF ETHANOL.

    I have yet to get a cogent answer from the BIG CHEESE, and hope to hear QUIRK'S opinion on this subject.

    I am going back to bed.

    b

    ReplyDelete
  58. When you look into the mirror, boobie, you'll see another image of our sick society.

    When a felony is committed, and unreported, society suffers for it.

    Leaving other innocents to become victims.

    You are a low life hedonist, boobie.

    One that has never sacrificed for the Nation and does not understand service to something larger than yourself.

    That your extended family has abandoned you, proof enough of that.

    ReplyDelete
  59. 100% percent of what you post is music, Melody, love you that I may.


    "all the niggers are lazy"

    b

    ReplyDelete
  60. Dear boy must have got the Farrier bill, and the Vet Bill in the same day.

    That would put anyone on an all-night bender.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Okay, I vote Deuce starts deleting Bob's posts until he sobers up, gets back on his meds, or whatnot.

    ReplyDelete
  62. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  63. T, what do you think of my idea that "Computer Languages," and "Programming" should be taught in Middle, and High School?

    Could we even do a little bit in, say, the 6th grade?

    ReplyDelete
  64. You are an illiterate rufus, govner, but a likeable one.

    I have posted a serious question to deuce.

    I would like an answer.


    b

    ReplyDelete
  65. Bob, David Duke was of "English" heritage. The English wrote the Magna Carta. Should we put up all of David Duke's rants?

    ReplyDelete
  66. As Mr Franklin opined, rufus:

    Beware hobbies that eat

    He knew of what he spoke

    ReplyDelete
  67. :)

    No Kidding.

    He weren't no angel; but he was a pretty smart ol' man.

    ReplyDelete
  68. You and your question, boobie, are not deemed worthy of reply.

    The answer has been given, by the committee of peers.

    Move along now, there is nothing more for you, here.

    ReplyDelete
  69. I'm sitting here thinking: "If I just Had to blow a lot of money, would I buy a Horse, or a Boat?"

    Too close to call, I believe. :)

    ReplyDelete
  70. Rufus II: T, what do you think of my idea that "Computer Languages," and "Programming" should be taught in Middle, and High School?

    I learned to program computers in 8th grade, in 1978, when the TRS-80 came out. Our school then bought two Apple IIs and I programmed those, and went to Clark College to get time on the mainframe.

    This warped my mind forever. To this day I can only write in Basic. To be sure, I use a compiler, but even that uses DOS (I actually run DOS on my second machine, and use Wordstar to write, there's nothing better). I tried to teach myself C but it's no good.

    But this was enough. I flew out to a company in Kansas City for three weeks and they taught me the language they use to run their cable testers, used by everyone, including Boeing, who have miles of wire in their stuff. That in turn led to a promotion to GS-11.

    All the good programs (spreadsheets, word processors) have already been written, there's nothing left to do. It is sufficient to send kids to Geometry class to learn how to think in sequential logic.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Golf comes in a Very Distant 3rd.

    Ah, hell, Golf isn't even anywhere in the same Universe.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Stock Car Racing would be similar, I suppose.

    ReplyDelete
  73. To make any headway in Mississippi is hard indeed.


    I know cause my wife used to teach there.
    I am not talking about white/black relationships/

    I am talking about the true difficulty of making them write a little paper.

    I ask again for a cogent reason why WiO is excluded.

    A cogent reason, not some bullshit about monothematic.

    I ask you Melody, you who have no political opinions at all, other than blacks are all lazy, why is
    WiO EXCLUDED??

    A cogent reason.

    This has nothing to do with my feelings for you.

    But deuce is up against the wall here, and I am going to crucify him.

    But I got to get some sleep.

    deuce and rat......r i g h t...



    b

    ReplyDelete
  74. T, didn't you kind of make my point?

    Would you have gotten that first break w/o the knowledge you had accumulated?

    ReplyDelete
  75. Bob, David Duke was of "English" heritage. The English wrote the Magna Carta. Should we put up all of David Duke's rants?

    No rufus but WiO does not rant.

    He is the only one cogent here.

    Yourself included.
    b

    ReplyDelete
  76. If every young man in America could, at a minimum, operate one of these CNC Machine

    when he left High School he would have a shot at a pretty good job.

    I believe most 8th Graders could learn to operate one in a few weeks.

    ReplyDelete
  77. No answer from deuce.

    I am going to crucify you.

    Sleep now.

    b

    ReplyDelete
  78. The thing is, most young men aren't too interested in "abstract" concepts like Algebra, and Geometry.

    They like to see the "chips fly."

    They like to see things getting put together, and blown up, and torn apart, and noise made, and think about T&A, and getting a "cool ride."

    Show'em how they can make that machine cut neat shit, and make good money while they're at it, and I think we've solved a lot of our problems.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Sentenced to a stroll down Via Dolorosa, I need my final cup of coffee.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Our Turkish allies moving to stop the flow of armaments into Syria.

    Wonder how deep the stockpiles are, in those Muslim Brotherhood basements?


    Ynetnews - ‎

    New sanctions against Syria came into effect on Saturday, in wake of a recent maritime arms shipment seizure by Turkey. Both the European Union and Switzerland have targeted Syria's oil sector in new sanctions, with the EU banning new investments there ...

    ReplyDelete
  81. Our "Medium-skilled" guy (or gal) that used to work in the factory is screwed. We can't compete in the Global Marketplace with his/her skills. Not unless he/she wants to work for the same wage as a Chinaman, or Bangladeshi.

    We solved this for awhile by putting them to work in Construction, but we just don't need that many "Construction" workers, going forward.

    I'll betcha anything, T, that your own company would hire a CNC operator, today, if he/she walked through the door. The thing is, they probably wouldn't put him/her to work on a CNC Machine, but on a job requiring similar skills.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Hey, good job with the videos, Deuce!

    I've thought about documenting some of VDH's articles with pictures, but I don't want to spend the money, and would probly get my sorry old white ass's throat slashed too, but in the shower I came up with a brilliant idea that probly won't work either, but it's free, so what the hey!

    Tour the places VDH writes about in Google street view, and use their pics!

    Haven't used it much, but the pictures of our neighborhood are first rate. Plenty sharp enough to get the point across.

    Or maybe I'll just join Rufus drinking beer and being thankful no farriers, furriers, or weasels are breathing down my back.

    ReplyDelete
  83. And, it doesn't stop at factories. The Dairy farm of the future that would have had Five Employees by 2001 standards will have 1 employee in 2031 (maybe, 2021.)

    He/she will be tracking 5 robots as they "milk" the cows. Also, he/she will be monitoring the rations fed by the automated system which takes into account the individual cow's age, health, and whatnot.

    The Tractor on the Ks wheat farm will be driven by gps, and the "operator" will be monitoring the mix of fertilizers for the various areas of the field.

    It's the 21st Century folks. We'll either adapt, or do what we've always done at times like this - fight an existential, and devastating war.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Can always use a good drinking partner, Doug. :)

    There won't be any Farriers, Furriers, or Ferriers showing up at my humble abode, either.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Check this out, Rufus.

    More evidence of Two California's as young Tech Heads still favor coastal California, and Silicon Valley in particular for setting up shop:

    Number of Fastest growing companies by state.
    Pretty surprising, CA still has a large lead.


    Fastest-Growing Companies headquarters. Map

    ReplyDelete
  86. 5 am here.
    Better hit the Hay.

    ReplyDelete




  87. Pretty surprising, CA still has a large lead.


    No, doug, that is not a surprise.
    Not at all.
    Not to someone that has been to CA, lately.

    It may be surprising to an Californio refugee in Polynesia, though.

    ReplyDelete




  88. OKIE MIGRATIONS

    Southwesterners had been moving west in significant numbers since 1910. However, not until the 1930s did this migration, particularly to California, become widely noticed and associated with Oklahomans. During the Great Depression decade Oklahoma suffered a net loss through migration (outflow minus inflow) of 440,000. Although Oklahomans left for other states, they made the greatest impact on California and Arizona, where the term "Okie" denoted any poverty-stricken migrant from the Southwest (Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Texas). From 1935 to 1940 California received more than 250,000 migrants from the Southwest. A plurality of the impoverished ones came from Oklahoma.
    ...
    When the migrants got to Barstow, California, they had to decide whether to follow Highway 66 into Los Angeles or turn north toward California's central agricultural valleys. Some 38 percent of the Southwestern migrants chose Los Angeles. They did not find a warm reception. Briefly in 1936 the Los Angeles police established a "bum blockade" at the California borders to keep out undesirables. The new residents who had skills might find a job with reasonable pay. Others lived with friends or after a year's waiting period went on relief.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Yeah, Doug, there isn't anything "simple" about any of it.

    California has done some downright nutty things. It's a Crime what they did to the Central Valley Farmers. Just a downright, dirty shame.

    And, their regulations just, often-times go beyond the borders of insanity. However, a lot of talented people still want to live there, and they have those wonderful "ports," and a good climate for growing things if you can just get some water to'em.

    Personally, I'm not interested in living there; but I've been hearing about the imminent demise of Ca for so long that I no longer pay a whole lot of attention to it. Primarily, of course, because I don't really care. :)

    ReplyDelete




  90. The classic story of "Okie" migration involves those who settled in the San Joaquin Valley. From 1935 to 1940 more than seventy thousand southwesterners migrated to this fertile inland region, hoping for a small plot of their own. It would not happen. Instead, they began harvesting cotton and fruit, pushing out Hispanic and Filipino laborers. The influx of migrants depressed wages, satisfying farm owners, but the "Okies," unlike the Hispanics, tended to stick around after the harvests. Because they arrived impoverished and because wages were low, many lived in filth and squalor in tents and shanty towns along the irrigation ditches. Consequently, they were despised as "Okies," a term of disdain, even hate, pinned on economically degraded farm laborers no matter what state they were from.
    ...
    "Okie" migrants can probably claim their greatest achievements in the area of culture. Sympathetic artists gained fame as they raised the national consciousness about their distressed subjects. John Steinbeck's novel The Grapes of Wrath (1939) depicted a downtrodden Joad family trekking from Oklahoma to California, suffering scorn and economic oppression as they sought honest employment.


    Okie State University

    Even as the migrants dispersed to defense industry jobs during World War II, or climbed up the economic ladder to own a plot of land in the valley, or went back home to Oklahoma, they had made their mark on the society that had treated them with contempt.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Of course, when WWII hit there were tens of thousands ready to go to work in the shipyards, and armament factories, Immediately.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Just one shipyard (Kaiser) was turning out One Ship per Day.

    ReplyDelete
  93. All through history, the "Great" Leader is the one that Won "Total, Uncompromising, Non-negotiated Vicory" in the "Existential" War.

    Whatever faults, or weaknesses, a leader might have are unimportant in Comparison to this feat. Roosevelt did that.

    For that reason, he joins Washington, and Lincoln, as one of the 3 "Great" Presidents in U.S. History.

    ReplyDelete




  94. ... more than seventy thousand southwesterners migrated to this fertile inland region, ...
    ... they began harvesting cotton and fruit, pushing out Hispanic and Filipino laborers. The influx of migrants depressed wages, satisfying farm owners ...

    ReplyDelete
  95. BTW, just to show you how all bolloxed up you can get by listening to the mainstream media:

    The Two Lowest Cost Producers of Photovoltaic Panels in the World are Not in China (or any other "emerging" country.)

    They are "First Solar," whose main production plant is in Arizona, and a German company, whose name I won't even attempt to get right.

    We run a Trade "Surplus" with China (and, the rest of the world) in Photovoltaics.)

    But, although they employ several hundred at each plant, they probably employ less than a fifth per Watt Capacity as the best Chinese plant.

    ReplyDelete
  96. Deuce,

    How about some feel good stories?

    Go back through your posts of the last week and give me a percentage of feel bad stories vs. feel good stories.

    ReplyDelete
  97. .

    T, sorry to hear about the upcoming operation.

    Your a tough cookie. You'll come through this ok.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  98. .

    I have posted a serious question to deuce.

    I would like an answer.




    b, you are starting to sound like your buddy Allen.

    You got your answer. A couple of times.

    Give it a rest.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  99. Obama hails America's historic building of 'the Intercontinental Railroad' (that must be the one that goes from Sarah Palin's house to Russia).

    I want to go to Australia in a few months, do I need to book a flight or can I just use Obama's intercontinental railroad?

    MSNBC's Thomas Roberts: GOP thinks "slavery was cool" (Sure, that's why the GOP went to war with the rednecks and peckerwoods in 1861).

    For the umpteenth time this year, a government shutdown looms.

    Egyptian students promise to storm US embassy if Palestinian bid at UN is vetoed (shades of Tehran 1979).

    ReplyDelete
  100. Quirk: T, sorry to hear about the upcoming operation.

    Thanks Quirk. It's something to look forward to, actually. It will stomp this cancer flat. That and the chemo and the radiation.

    Your a tough cookie. You'll come through this ok.

    I almost fall asleep during tattoo sessions. I knew male sailors that had to get drunk and still went "Ooo! oww! It hurts! OH MY GOD IT HURTS SO BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

    ReplyDelete
  101. .

    Hey, T, I like the new avatar.

    Appropriate.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  102. Don't go conflating what Sarah Palin said with Tina Fey's comedy routine, T.

    Sarah Palin made a factual statement: There is an Alaskan Island from which you can see Russia.

    In fact, in wintertime, you can "Walk" from that island to a Russian Island some fifteen miles away.

    ReplyDelete
  103. As long as the "Ultras" are not with those students, Ms T, there's
    "No Worries, Sheila"

    Hope you enjoy Australia.

    I think there's a station in Hawaii, stop and see doug, will you?

    ReplyDelete
  104. Sam,

    I honestly try, but the news keeps coming fast and furiously and it is not only not good, it can ruin us. It is dangerous. The American public gets fed through the information tube supplied by MSM.

    We are on the precipice of having the trillions spent propping up the economic system slipping away because of what is taking place in Europe.

    The Middle East, as always is a disaster in waiting.

    Putin's inner KGB is getting the better of him.

    China could get ugly in an economic downturn.

    Mexico is a national security threat.

    Savings and livelihoods are at risk.

    New jobs are nonexistent.

    We have the dumbest president we have ever had.

    but, but for you SAM, I dedicate the next post!!

    ReplyDelete
  105. In fact, in wintertime, you can "Walk" from that island to a Russian Island some fifteen miles away.

    I know, they are the Diomedes.

    Not too many fast food places there.

    ReplyDelete




  106. At least 130 people were injured in clashes that erupted Tuesday night between soccer fans and police in Cairo, Egypt's state-owned news agency said, citing officials from the ministry of health.

    MENA quoted a health ministry statement saying 71 injured people, including many said to be unstable condition, were transferred to the nearby Police Hospital.

    The clashes erupted after an Egypt Cup game between the al-Ahly and Kima Aswan teams when riot police, who were providing security at the stadium, attacked crowds of fans for calling "provocative shouts" against them and former Interior Minister Habib el-Adly.


    These Ultras are Nationalists, not that motivated by religion.
    Just like the Brits.
    " Wherever England soccer fans went, violence seemed to follow ...

    Nationalistic Hooligans

    ReplyDelete
  107. .

    Ruf, I have no problem with idea that we need more IT training in our schools. Probably a good idea.

    However,

    As far a CNC training guaranteeing jobs, I would have to question that. When I retired a few years back, all the toolmaking was being transferred oversees. A big portion was going to South Korea and Japan; although all the tools we were building for our JV in China were being built in Canada.

    Don't know how the industry is today but given the current economy I wouldn't think it was much better.

    I tend to agree with T that the most important thing we can give our kids are the basics in math and science, geometry, calculus, and trig.

    Given the way our econcomy is currently structured, we need more kids that can design and build the CNC machines rather than just use them.

    I saw your comment about not having a need for foreign language in our schools. I think that equates to your thoughts on not needing to spend money on infrastructure, repairing roads and bridges.

    Haven't read anything new on the subject for a few years now, but there have been numerous studies indicating the strength of the American universities is that they teach kids to think not just to compute. Asian schools turn out thousands of engineers but the US is still looked at as the place to come and learn how to think.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  108. Ought to make Spanish proficiency a High School graduation requirement, along with English, of course.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Spanish or Brazilian Portuguese.

    ReplyDelete
  110. Melody states:


    WIO was not given keys to the gate because he does not need them. 80-90% of what WIO says is all about Israel. He is often a prolific poster of cut and paste about Israel.

    HE WILL POST THAT REGARDLESS OF THE SUBJECT. HE CANNOT HELP HIMSELF.

    WIO has full reign to post what he likes. He has been moderated by me no more than 4-5 times. You on the other hand Bob have been moderated many times.





    This from a nitwit that posts music links.

    She deserves to be a bartender as does the jew hating jackhole Rat...

    Many people visit the blog and see the Rodent, the Music postings and the Rufus nonsense (over and over) and choose never to post and leave...

    It's Deuce's call...

    ANd he calls them as he sees them....

    I hope he enjoys his creation...

    ReplyDelete
  111. .

    I've argued that the US needs to develop an industrial policy like most of the rest of the countries in the world. Therefore, it may sound a little strange that I'm against subsidies.

    Solyndra is one horror story but there are others less publicized.

    For instance, GM used taxpayer money to subsidize development of the Volt. Now they are moving production of their electric vehicles to China. They say there will be no technology transfer but that is pure BS. China demands technology transfer as part of the deal.

    There will always be tech transfer and reverse engineering; but in this case the American taxpayer is subsidizing getting his throat cut by the Chicoms.

    On another subject, GM indicated they plan on importing cars they make in China to the US.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  112. Aww, Q; you can't teach a kid "how to think." That's like saying "you can teach IQ."

    I'm saying, "A Vast Majority of worthwhile jobs in the future will entail using computers to direct machinery."

    As I said in my earlier comment. It's not so much know how to use a CNC Machine, as in knowing how to use the technology.

    You're not going to get many of those lower to lower middle class boys (or their parents) interested in Geometry, or "Calculus!"

    They're not going to see the "use" in it. They know they're "going to work."

    Just like "Spanish." How are you going to convince a 16 yr old yahoo kid that he "Needs" to learn Spanish?

    But, tell him that he can make good bucks by making that Forklift run in circles by learning how to arrange these symbols on a piece of paper, and you Might get his attention.

    Tell him that the job will pay enough that he can drive a nice ride, and get some of that sweet, sweet poontang, and you'll get yourself a hell of a student. Garantee it. :)

    ReplyDelete
  113. "o" has had his profile visited 4,770 times.
    The foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing is a vice so mean and low that every person of sense and character detests and despises it.
    George Washington


    The desert rat profile, visited 16709 times.

    With few complaints lodged.

    Readership wins.
    Sail on Sailor -

    ReplyDelete
  114. The F-22 is the most advanced piece of machinery we've ever put in the air, right? Well, it ain't "College Grads" that are keeping them operating. It's High School Graduates, with six months, to a year of training that are doing that.

    I know damned well the vast majority of our high school grad unemployed could have been trained to operate a freakin' computerized forklift, or milking machine.

    ReplyDelete
  115. US industrial policy is enveloped in the Tax Code, Q.

    That it is haphazard and ill thought, no doubt.

    But the varied depreciation allowances and other associated write-offs, as much, if not more than direct subsidies or loan guarantees drive US industrial policies.

    ReplyDelete
  116. .

    If it would shut bob up, you can take my name off the bartender list.

    I'm computer illiterate and wouldn't know how to put up a stream anyway.

    It's painful to admit that I can't do something that Doug doesn't seem to have a problem with.

    However, since b in his current moment of pique believes its like that golden star the teacher once spit on and then place on his forhead in the third grade, I have no problem having my name "downgraded" to that of "common poster".

    Too fucking funny.

    (Apologies to George Washington)

    .

    ReplyDelete
  117. .

    You're not going to get many of those lower to lower middle class boys (or their parents) interested in Geometry, or "Calculus!"

    They don't have to be interested in it but they have to know it, if not calculus, at least geometry, trig, and algebra.

    Good lord, if you tought them strictly what they wanted to learn you'd be teaching them how to set up a Facebook page and become video game designers.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  118. Hell, I'm in the same boat. I've never posted, or edited anything, either. I, also, wouldn't know how; and, I figure, if Deuce wanted one of my ideas posted he'd put it up.

    ReplyDelete
  119. .

    Aww, Q; you can't teach a kid "how to think." That's like saying "you can teach IQ."

    Nonsense.

    You can force them to think through curriculum. Over time it becomes second nature to them.

    We have seen the results in our own economy as people are forced out of the ocupations they were trained for either through technology or globalization. Job skills can disappear rapidly when you are out of a job. But you don't lose the skills of logic and critical thinking once you have them.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  120. That's the point, Q. There's money in that. Why not teach it to them. Besides, the skills are transferable.

    ReplyDelete
  121. .

    US industrial policy is enveloped in the Tax Code, Q.

    Obviously, you are right rat.

    What I should have said was that "I have argued that the US needs to develop a rational industiral policy."

    .

    ReplyDelete
  122. Q, those people that have the "skills" of logic, and "critical thinking" were born with them.

    And, honestly, many of those that harp the most about "critical thinking," and "logic," seem to be some of the most impaired in that regard.

    ReplyDelete
  123. When someone bemoans the lack of a "rational industrial/energy policy," what they are really saying is they want one with which They Agree.

    ReplyDelete
  124. .

    That's the point, Q. There's money in that.

    Not sure which post this was responding to. If it was with regard to the Facebook and games all I can ask is how many jobs are we talking?

    We are looking for millions of jobs. Hundreds, even thousands, are nice but don't come near touching our problems.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  125. Those video game creation skills will be transferable to most of the decent jobs of the future, Q.

    ReplyDelete
  126. If you could contribute to a team designing a video game you could teach a machine how to put a door on a car on the Ford Assembly line.

    ReplyDelete
  127. .

    Q, those people that have the "skills" of logic, and "critical thinking" were born with them.

    I totally disagree with you. We see people every day who are intelligent (going by an IQ test probably highly intelligent) who when offering a solution to a problem finds it difficult to walk their way from A to B.

    They can be trained to eliminate the non-essential and the symptoms in order to get to the root cause of a problem.

    In addition to IT training, those who complain there is not a qualified workforce in the US for available jobs also mention Science and Math two subjects in which you cannot just push a button and watch it go.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  128. Or, at least, teach the machine how to make minor adjustments.

    ReplyDelete
  129. .

    When someone bemoans the lack of a "rational industrial/energy policy," what they are really saying is they want one with which They Agree.


    Of course.

    That's why I amended to say a rational industrial policy.

    :)

    .

    ReplyDelete
  130. I didn't say that "critical thinkers" had to be born "high IQ," Q. :) Although that probably helps.

    Many "genii" are considered very "intuitive" people. All intuitive people aren't genii. You're talking Apples, and Oranges.

    If I need employees to work on a robotized assembly line, and those with the specific, or closely related skills don't walk through the door, I would settle for someone who has mastered a high degree of math. They would seem to be the ones most likely to be trainable.

    ReplyDelete
  131. meant to say "high degree of math And/Or Science."

    ReplyDelete
  132. .

    You're talking Apples, and Oranges.

    No. I'm not.

    I started out agreeing with you that we could use more IT training in school.

    Where I disagreed with you is with your downgrading of the importance of students aquiring basic knowledge in HS; math, science, logic, etc. I would even take it further and say that they need training in subjects like history and language, things that will give them some understanding of how our country and culture developed.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  133. Okay, I'm going to back up, and agree with you here.

    BUT, I'm saying that, "If you can convince the young man (hoodlum, whatever) that he can get a job doing interesting stuff, but he has to qualify in some of these more non-intuitively important areas along the way, he will do it."

    But, if you try to tell him that he needs to know Aegean History as it pertains to Greek Myth in order to make the lever move he'll cry "Bullshit" on you, and go back to what he's doing.

    ReplyDelete
  134. Young people could give a shit how old people's culture developed. They are the ones creating "New" Culture, and they know it.

    Remember, we're talking about the 60+% of guys that Know they're not going to go to College, much less graduate.

    ReplyDelete
  135. But, if you try to tell him that he needs to know Aegean History as it pertains to Greek Myth in order to make the lever move he'll cry "Bullshit" on you, and go back to what he's doing.


    As far as I know mythology is not a course offered in many high schools. U.S. History and that of Western Civilization are or at least should be.

    You are not trying to socialize kids so they can be absorbed into our culture. You merely suggest we should create a group of automatons that can function.

    I say offer the kids that want it IT. However, don't deny the kids that want to improve their lives the benefits of a liberal education.

    Maybe what you should be suggesting is a major increase in occupational training for those kids who drop out of high schools and need a job.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  136. No, Q, I'm saying drop the bullshit required Foreign Language (keep it as an elective for the College-bound,) and substitute Computer Language/Programming, etc.

    Have you seen the unemployment rates for "high school graduates" (no college?) They're astronomical. Add in the "part-time for economic reasons" and you're probably at around 25%.

    Once they've left high school you've lost them. You've gotta get'em while they're there, and the "gittin's good."

    ReplyDelete
  137. Quirk said...
    .

    You're talking Apples, and Oranges.

    No. I'm not.

    I started out agreeing with you that we could use more IT training in school.

    ---

    Look at my fastest growing companies link above.

    Apple still rules,
    and Apples are fine for school.

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  138. I'm computer illiterate and wouldn't know how to put up a stream anyway.

    It's painful to admit that I can't do something that Doug doesn't seem to have a problem with.

    ---

    You just hold it up and let fly.

    If Wifey is around, best to do it outside.

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  139. If it's painful when you stream,
    see a doc.

    Probly nothin serious, but you never know.

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  140. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  141. Incredible and Informative Post..Thanks For sharing. I am seriously impressed right now.. Gate Factory

    ReplyDelete