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Thursday, April 24, 2008

Nuclear Power is Inevitable in the Middle East


"There was no Syria-North Korea co-operation whatsoever in Syria", said Bashar Jaafari, Syrian ambassador to UN. Here is a pdf of The Institute for Science and International Security report that says differently.

Syrian oil reserves have been declining and Syria has been switching power plants over to natural gas so that they can continue to export oil at new and rising prices. This poses a dilemma for Israel and the West. Nuclear proliferation will not be limited to Iran.

With all the oil revenue flowing into the Middle East and as we get further into the period of "peak oil", the ME has the resources to purchase and the need for nuclear power plants. It is simply not going to happen that Israel or any other power will be able to prevent every Arab country from obtaining nuclear power. China, Russia, France, Germany, the UK and the US will all be encouraging the use of nuclear power. It is a new growth industry.

The US when it had a nuclear monopoly could not prevent the Russians and the Chinese from acquiring nuclear technology in the fifties. Nuclear power in an age of $120 oil is inevitable. Nuclear is coming to the ME. How do we work with that?

_______________________

BBC

N Korea 'linked to Syria reactor'
Officials say the site was the target of an Israeli attack last year
North Korea was helping Syria build a nuclear reactor, US officials are to tell lawmakers in a closed session.

Unnamed officials told a number of US newspapers that the US had video footage of the Syrian facility with North Koreans inside.

Syria has repeated denials that it has any nuclear weapons programme, or any such agreement with North Korea.

It follows an unexplained air strike by Israel last September on a target inside Syria.

According to the Washington Post, the alleged nuclear facility was the target of the bombing.

'Not operational'

The video footage - said to have been obtained by Israel - also showed striking similarities between the Syrian facility and the North Korean reactor at Yongbyon, reports said.

However, the facility was not yet operational and there was no fuel for the reactor, officials said.

The White House has not commented on the reports, but Defense Secretary Robert Gates said information on the issue could be made public "soon".

Syria's ambassador to the UN, Bashar Jaafari, denied the links.
"There was no Syria-North Korea co-operation whatsoever in Syria. We deny these rumours," he said.

North Korea has previously denied transferring nuclear technology to Syria.
In a landmark deal reached in February last year, Pyongyang agreed to close its main reactor and divulge the full extent of its nuclear programme by December.
However, it missed the deadline, and while it is taking steps to close its Yongbyon reactor, it has yet to produce a declaration of nuclear activities to the international community's satisfaction.


79 comments:

  1. The US when it had a nuclear monopoly could not prevent the Russians and the Chinese from acquiring nuclear technology in the fifties. Nuclear power in an age of $120 oil is inevitable. Nuclear is coming to the ME. How do we work with that?

    Obama is on record as saying we need to draw down our nuclear stockpile unilaterally to set a good example and work toward no nukes globally. It's 1983 Europe all over again. I'm going to go play my 99 Luftballoons record by Nena.

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  2. I'm against nuclear power because it leads to nuclear weapons proliferation. Solar and offshore wind plants are the way forward.

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  3. It is simply not going to happen that Israel or any other power will be able to prevent every Arab country from obtaining nuclear power.


    what a crap filled statement...




    Israel doesnt have a problem with arab countries have nuclear POWER, israel has a problem with countries that weekly threaten it's life obtaining nuclear weapons.

    thus when the USA OFFERED iran a complete package, including the spent fuel to be removed, Iran refused...

    dont confuse the 2 issues, you simply should KNOW better

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  4. I do know better. That is the point to the post. Nuclear power is coming to the ME. Mat's point that the problem is that nuclear power can be benign, but it can be misused and lead to proliferation.

    Maybe the point is not as obvious as I thought, so I will try again:

    "It is simply not going to happen that Israel or any other power will be able to prevent every Arab country from obtaining nuclear power. That being said, when the ME gets nuclear power, what will prevent nuclear proliferation moving into weaponry?"

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  5. The pdf reported the Syrians were building a five megawatt-electric power generating plant. What happens if they start building them in Kuwait or Egypt?

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  6. Each signatorie nation to the Non-prolifertion Treaty has the right to enrich uranium.

    That other countries could "fear" that this right could be abused, is a flaw of the Treaty, but then, the US wrote it. Back in the day.

    Without that enrichment guarentee there are many countries that would not have signed on.

    The US has violated both the spirit and the letter of the Treaty, when it thought it in its' best interest to do so.

    Tit for tat, that's how many of the "non-aligned" countries see Iran's past violations. The governments that violated the Treaty, in Pakistan and Iran, are gone. While the ruling elites in each country still call the tune.

    There is no putting the nuclear Genie back in the bottle, the French are out there, selling reactors. We'll see the Chinese, Russians and Iranians doing the same.

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  7. "There is no putting the nuclear Genie back in the bottle, the French are out there, selling reactors. We'll see the Chinese, Russians and Iranians doing the same."

    I disagree. With solar being competitive with nuclear, there's no reason to go nuclear other than to fulfill nefarious ambitions. This is a point that needs to be made loud and needs to be made often. If the French Chinese Russians Canadians Americans or whoever insists on proliferating such technology into the hands of Jihadis, then I think it's fair game for Israel to target ME oil supply for elimination.

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  8. 2164th: The pdf reported the Syrians were building a five megawatt-electric power generating plant. What happens if they start building them in Kuwait or Egypt?

    We can't keep bombing people all the time to get them to do what we want, otherwise we'll end up looking like Sonny Corleone in the Godfather, who beat up his brother-in-law all the time. Finally Carlo got tired of getting beat up and he stopped having sex with his wife Conny Corleone, and when she complained, he said, "Go call your brother and tell him I won't screw you, maybe he'll beat me up until I get a hard on."

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  9. Metuselah: If the French Chinese Russians Canadians Americans or whoever insists on proliferating such technology into the hands of Jihadis, then I think it's fair game for Israel to target ME oil supply for elimination.

    I've said this before. Saddam "eliminated" the oil supply in Kuwait and it was back on-line in no time at all. But Israel would surely bring the retribution of the industrialized world down on its head for doing it, and the Arabs would love every minute of it.

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  10. Now that Team43 has nearly mastered Wind Weapons (see katrina) , I type "nearly" because we have not quite perfected the steering mechanisms. Katcat5 was not deployed to target Chocolate City Ray and his followers but we were supposed to make a hard left and hit Coca Hugo. The lack of sufficient atmospheric CO2 levels in equatorial regions is hindering our ability to accurately steer. Solar weapon SUN1 is working out quite nicely though. We have almost finished roasting the brains of those wearing tin foil hats. Let the NorKorArabs continue their efforts to split atoms, we have real power!

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  11. "But Israel would surely bring the retribution of the industrialized world down on its head for doing it,.."

    I don't think so. I don't see it as something that Israel should fear.

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  12. That may be true, mat, that other methods of power generation may be "better", but what of it.

    The French have developed quite a nuclear industry and are not going to shut it down. They are out hawking their product, in Saudi Arabia, Eygpt and Dubai.
    To name just a few.

    The US is contemplating building a nuclear plant in Idaho, bob tells US.

    The fact that mat and rat think solar may be a better alternative, others may not. If the only way to
    stop that Idaho reactor is for the Canadians to invade, should they?

    Of course the USA would defend itself, when and if they did?
    The US would have every right to
    obliverate Canada in response to an invasion or airstrike against a reactor under construction, in Idaho.

    There is no governing or enforcement capacity to tell the French and the Pakistani that they cannot sell reactors.
    Nor should there be.
    ash's International Court could write a restraining order, perhaps.
    But who'd serve it?

    Who'd enforce it?

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  13. Tes,

    Who exactly is Conny Corleone in your analogy? And why should we care if she gets off riding one particular penis?

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  14. "The French have developed quite a nuclear industry and are not going to shut it down."

    These plants have, what, a 30 year lifespan? How long do they have remaining in their operational lifespan? The French will follow the German model, which is the EU model, when those nuke plants are retired.

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  15. Funny stuff, mat.
    But not logical.

    When the fear of a nuclear capable Islamic world is justification to disrupt the world economy and start a general war in the Middle East ...
    Fear is the all consuming factor

    But the world reaction to such an act of vandalism, that cam be discounted, totally.

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  16. "I've said this before. Saddam "eliminated" the oil supply in Kuwait and it was back on-line in no time at all."

    At what cost? How much is the profit on a nuclear reactor, how much is the loss when ME oil supply goes offline for 6 months.

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  17. That in thirty years from now you can project French actions, well there you have.
    mat, the prophet and seer.

    Even if your prophesy os correct, that still leaves the French and the Pakistani thirty years to "soak" the Arabs. Those reactors are expensive, also need replacing evert thirty or forty years. More business, then.

    No, mat, nuclear is an expanding global industry, one that will not be shut down by a command from mat.

    The socialist dominated governments of the world will not relingquish control of the power that power generation delivers.

    We did not in Iraq, Large infrastructure projects, not decentralized, localized and privatized popwer generation.

    It'd be liberating to the people, it'll not happen.

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  18. With solar being competitive with nuclear,

    But it's not, is it, Mat?

    Maybe later, but the little I know of it, tells me it's not now. Maybe I'm behind the times, as usual.

    What a great thing it would be if it is, or can be.

    Might not help Teresita out much, there in cloudy Seattle, but would sure help Desert Rat.

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  19. "No, mat, nuclear is an expanding global industry, one that will not be shut down by a command from mat."

    It's not a command, it's an awareness. You need to wake up.

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  20. I don't think a spade of earth has been turned over on our proposed Idaho plant yet, but the blueprints seem in hand, and the beauracracy is being worked.

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  21. And that damned stupid Dr. Whatshisname is trying to stir up trouble, get an initiative on the ballot to stop it.

    But I don't think the people of peckerwoods Idaho would vote to stop it, at this point.

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  22. "But it's not, is it, Mat?"

    I'd say we're almost there. If given the subsidies big oil gets, we'd be there already.

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  23. I'd certainly vote for solar over nuclear, if they can provide the juice. But those two cooling towers, out there in that field of corn, don't look too bad either, to me.

    From what I can pick up from the eternal KGORadioSanFrancisco and other outlets around, the sentiment against nuclear is starting to melt. Also, of course, the sentinment in favor of solar, wind, etc. is as strong as ever. Nothing wrong with that.

    $4/gallon gas goes a long ways to change some sentiments, in San Francisco.

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  24. yo, Trish:

    Colombia and Ecuador
    By Nicholas D. Kristof

    I’m leaving shortly for Colombia and Ecuador, and in Colombia I’ll interview President Uribe and write about the free trade agreement. Any questions you want me to ask President Uribe or focus on in my reporting there? What does the press miss in its coverage of South America?
    ---

    Better Roses than Cocaine

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  25. If we don't get a good steering wheel on those Katcat5windweapons we may have a big blow up around Hudson's Bay, but nobody will care, there being no voters there.

    Joeblow:)

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  26. And I know a good steering wheel when I've got one in my hands.

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  27. Bob,

    The fact that Solel is building a large megawatt plant in the Negev, tells me that the economics are there.

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  28. Deepening Democratic Dilemma
    Robert Novak

    Though he does not say it, Mr Novak lays out the groundwork for Gore/Obama ticket to emerge from Denver.

    Billary's supporters would vote Gore, in November. Obama's voters would stay with their man, as VP.

    Novak's piece is an another brick in the wall.

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  29. 99 Luftballoons record by Nena.

    Thu Apr 24, 07:31:00 AM EDT

    Hey, I bought that album in Stuttgart in 83. Do you also perchance have any Culture Club or Flock of Seagulls? Spandau Ballet? Eurythmics?

    Did you own at least two pair of suede Peter Pan boots and leg warmers; three mini skirts, one in Day Glo?

    Say yes, T, and you will have forever secured a place in my warmest affections.

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  30. If we get a Gore/Obama ticket, we will have succeded in nominating the two goofiest sons a bitches in the whole country, a real accomplishment.

    We might even elect 'em.

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  31. bobal said...

    ""So, in your view, flying planes into the World Trade Center was justified because we might further occupy Muslim lands?"

    I never cease to be amazed how Ash can continue, daily, to come up with such crap."

    I'm glad that you recognize the rationale you offered is crap Bobal. You argued that if Bush were to attack Iran because they might be building a bomb that was ok. When the same logic is used to justify the attack on the World Trade Center you realize the logic is crap. 'They might build a nuclear bomb' IS a crappy justification for launching a war and killing many innocent people.

    Which is, sort of, the topic of the post here. The Nuclear genie is out of the bottle and if one doesn't control the fuel cycle then one is vulnerable to foreign control over your power. Controlling the fuel cycle gives you the knowledge to build a bomb.

    This basic logic was known when the nuclear non-proliferation treaty was written. A key portion of the treaty, the second pillar, was for those with nuclear arms to disarm. The US, among others, have not been keen on disarming. So, we get a bunch of others keen to join the club - MAD overseers.

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  32. It's Time for Dems to Recruit Al Gore
    By Steven Stark

    In the wake of Barack Obama's defeat in Pennsylvania on Tuesday, the Democrats have a huge problem. On the one hand, they have a front-runner who hasn't won a single one of the major primary states other than his own, who's a neophyte on the national scene, and who has enormous difficulties attracting the white, non-college educated voters he needs to win. On the other, there's Hillary Clinton - a candidate who has greatly diminished her stature on the campaign trail, who faces huge liabilities of her own (in part because of her gender and in part because of Clinton fatigue), and whose chances of winning in November would require her to thread an Electoral College needle.
    ...
    ... if the Democrats want to have their best chance to win an election in November that six months ago it looked like they couldn't lose, they may have only one option at this point: they can turn to Al Gore.

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  33. Ash, you worked on that all night, didn't you.

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  34. "But Israel would surely bring the retribution of the industrialized world down on its head for doing it,.."

    Who provided the technologies to these countries like iran? And why is there no retribution being put on their heads for causing the coming calamity? These enablers deserve the “retribution”. Many countries of the “industrialized” world were also enablers of the events that occurred before and during WWII.

    “But the world reaction to such an act of “vandalism”, that cam be discounted, totally.”

    The choice of words just reinforces that rat is a self serving survivalist, just like his name. (or maybe even worse).

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  35. Ash, the west has offered to provide them with everything, including the light switch, if they will just not make a bomb.

    I know you are awfully dense, but try again, think,
    Sweden
    Norway

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  36. They might, it's kind of hard to imagine, but, they might.

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  37. Seeking Alpha:

    Green Presidential Picks - Cramer's Mad Money (4/23/08)

    Stocks discussed in the in-depth session of Jim Cramer’s Mad Money TV program,Wednesday April 23. Click on a stock ticker for more analysis.

    Comverge (COMV), First Solar (FSLR), Potash (POT), John Deere (DE), Mosaic (MOS), DuPont (DD), Archer Daniels Midland (AMD)

    It is a no-brainer that a Democratic President will be good for green stocks, said Cramer continuing his series on environmentally friendly picks. Both Clinton and Obama have pledged huge investments to develop alternative energy and reduce carbon emissions. Cramer says two good ways to play a possible Democratic victory are FSLR and COMV. However, agriculture stocks such as POT, DE, MOS, DD and AMD will see the biggest gain from a Democrat in the Oval Office, because of the powerful farming lobby which will encourage further production of ethanol. Cramer says now is the time to buy these stocks.

    Shaw Group (SGP), NRG Energy (NRG)

    If Republican John McCain becomes Chief Executive, nuclear power stocks should see a boost, because he has always been consistent in his support of this alternative fuel, said Cramer. Although The Street was unhappy with its quarter, Cramer called this view "short-sighted" and sees great potential in the company since it both engineers and constructs nuclear power plants. Cramer added NRG to his list because "NRG is the only electric utility that's totally committed to nuclear power," he said. He identified Comverge a "bipartisan green winner" as the stock which will perform well no matter who is in the White House. However, Cramer warned a McCain victory might be better for oil than for green stocks.

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  38. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  39. Sure, I serve myself and my family, first.

    Before I had a family I served the United States, for a time, and survived.

    Plunge the world into a global depression, extended when the production take more time than the six months, that prophesy promises, to bring back on line.

    The Chinese could take action against the provoctour of the collapse, or the Pakistani, in what would be considered by all Muslims a now fully rightous jihad.

    Israel could well cease to survive, against two such foes, not to mention the Indians, to a lesser extent. But shatter that nuclear & nationalist nut, just as its' starting to root ...

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  40. bobal said...

    "Ash, you worked on that all night, didn't you."

    naw, I just caught up with your comment this morning. Life does get in the way of my commenting.

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  41. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  42. bobal,

    They claim that they are not interested in making a bomb. I do agree that skepticism is in order on that claim, but it is their claim. With respect to their being asked not to produce their own fuel but rather accept foreign suppliers they note that they have great difficulty getting spare parts for planes in times of disagreement why would should they leave such a critical industry under control of foreigners? There is no way the US would agree to such foreign control why should they?

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  43. "Israel could well cease to survive, against two such foes, not to mention the Indians, to a lesser extent."


    dRat,

    Any particular mouse you trying to frighten?

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  44. Thanks, Doug. There was a piece in WaPo a couple of weeks ago (can't remember the correspondent) that was quite unsympathetic toward Uribe, and correspondingly uncritical of his opponents and enemies, which wasn't in itself maddening - it was the suggestions without substantiation inserted into the article ("According to some human rights activists..." "Labor leaders say...") and then echoed as if they were facts. Tried and true, what can you do?

    I believe the Colombian leadership has a fair understanding of the political situation in the US and isn't panicking. Kristof might ask the President why this treaty is so important to Colombians themselves, why it is so popular, what it means to them and why they are so willing to commit to it, hazarding as it will heretofore sheltered industries. I'd like to see that passed on to the American audience. But he's not one of my favorite writers.

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  45. They claim that they are not interested in making a bomb. I do agree that skepticism is in order on that claim, but it is their claim.


    Ah, heck Ash, it's easier, and more resting, to just agree with you, cause I can't do a thing about it anyway. Go ahead and believe them, if you wish.

    Let them have dozens and dozens of nuclear warheads on missiles pointed any which way; like Rat said, I'm in Idaho, and the winds are favorable.

    You ought to be ok in Canada too. Maybe better off than I am here.

    I just wouldn't want to be in Tel Aviv.

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  46. It would be a terrible thing if nukes were to be used. I cringe when folk talk about how we should of used them to get Osama in Pakistan. Ahhhh, a nice little tactical nuke, a big ole bunker buster. Once we use one like that we are further lowering the bar on the use of these powerful weapons, even if we use a little ole one. We would come across as sanctimonious holier then thou pigs wailing and gnashing our teeth over other folks obtaining what we have, and use. Heck we come across that way already to many I'm sure.

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  47. Had I just called you a survivalist it would have been a compliment, but I didn’t and it wasn’t.
    James Wesley, Rawles wrote a book called “Patriots: surviving the coming collapse”.
    A book about survivalists. Not your kind, though.

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  48. Just the one that roars, mat.

    A tactical nuclear response, in Afghanistan would have sent a myriad of messages. Messages that could have been both good and bad from the US perspective.

    There being so many different perceptions in the US, the perspectives often vary greatly, even within the loyal citizenry.

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  49. Whether you compliment me or not is of little concern, to me.

    Survival of the fittest, that was the last thread, was it not?
    Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

    Lots of outside influences in the survival game.

    While only the good die young

    Good luck.

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  50. Trish: Did you own at least two pair of suede Peter Pan boots and leg warmers; three mini skirts, one in Day Glo?

    I was a Catholic schoolgirl for the first half of 1983 (that's when I graduated) so none of that miniskirt stuff, this was the uniform of the day: blue jeans and black Def Leppard Pyromania concert t-shirt. The 'burbs were for rockers, not new-wavers. Less said about hair back then, the better.

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  51. "Just the one that roars, mat."

    Oh, I donno. This being an elephant club, there's no need for a mouse to roar.

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  52. Def Leppard (the one-armed drummer!) Pyromania; had that one as well. And recently purchased their greatest hits on CD. Great Stairmaster music.

    I graduated in 84; Alexander M. Patch High School in Vaihingen. The year of Thriller. (Yes ma'am, I had the album. And every young German male of my acquaintance soon had the jacket or reasonable facsimile.)

    The hair: No such thing as too much mousse or spray. Oh, yes, I remember it well, whether "hair metal" or New Wave.

    (Back to your regularly scheduled bomb-em-or-not programming.)

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  53. My own believe it that if a Bn of Rangers had been inserted as a blocking force the end result could have been as effective as a tactial nuke.

    Just a matter of conjecture, now.

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  54. (Wow, Doug. That was an exceptional piece by Kristof.)

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  55. That was the Pentagon's call, when the request went out. Didn't want to hazard it. Answer was no.

    Biological agent would have been best there on the routes in and out. Damn sight better than any nuke in the Spin Ghar. No worries for the next 20 years. As long as we're dreamin'.

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  56. Trish: Biological agent would have been best there on the routes in and out. Damn sight better than any nuke in the Spin Ghar. No worries for the next 20 years. As long as we're dreamin'.

    No, biological and chemical warfare is reserved for spraying poppies as part of the War on Drugs, which are just about the only thing that can be grown and harvested in Afghanistan which just has trails and few roads or grain silos. That way we throw the local populace in the arms of the Taliban so the CIA chief can get a Medal of Freedom from the President just like George Tenet when he was blindsided by 9-11 and said there was WMDs in Iraq.

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  57. It would be a terrible thing if nukes were to be used.


    Again finding that common ground with Ash, I heartily agree.

    -----

    We would come across as sanctimonious holier then thou pigs wailing and gnashing our teeth over other folks obtaining what we have, and use.


    The United States has been responsible with its weapons. For decades, we protected a good part of the globe with our 'nuclear umbrella' and prevented the spread of those weapons nobody likes.

    Now we seem to be in the beginning stages of creating a missile defense in Europe against a threat from the south. Where the real proliferation is beginning in the moslem countries.

    It will cost taxpayers like us money to do so.

    An alternative would be to just say to Italy, Spain, Germany, the Nordic countries, all of east Europe, you are on your own, boys, nuke up, you've got that God given, international right, just like Ash says. We don't want to be 'sanctimonious pigs' about this. You are on your own.

    Nukes for everybody, all around the table. Eye to eye, nukes out the eyeballs. Some folk say everybody has a 'right' to nukes.

    Cuba should have nukes.
    Venezuela. Everybody. Even the Vatican.

    We'll just have to build more missile defense shields to compensate. And then be criticized for that.

    -----

    I can't understand people that continually see the worst in the United States, when the record really argues otherwise, taken all in all.

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  58. Essay Assignment:

    List 5 things that are good about the United States.

    Without being a sanctimonious pig about it, I could come up with twice, three times, that number, without really trying.

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  59. Easy Assignment:
    1/ The People: Open Generous Industrious Fun Modern
    2/ The Land: Beautiful Varied Vast Virgin Rich
    3/ The Politics: Simple Predictable...
    4/ The Culture:
    5/ The Future:

    ...I need to get back to work, Tes can fill in the rest..

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  60. and the flipside to you Bobal - list 5 things you don't like about the US.

    A quick 5 things I like about the US:

    - The Constitution and Bill of Rights (2 things really)
    - Rule of Law
    - Democracy
    - Dynamic and Inventive people
    - a general acceptance that those in trouble need helping out

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  61. Mat receives high marks in bob's easy essay assignment.

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  62. And Ash comes through with flying colors, as well.

    5 things I dislike

    1. The ruination of much of our natural heritage of a beautiful environment.

    2. A court system that can get a little out of control, and impose its will somethimes over the vast majority of the people.

    3. A tendency to lack of community, especially in the big cities.

    4. A really lame tv programming schedule.(This is not as lame as it sounds, as I think a higher class tv programing might do a lot to improve things, and our general outlook on life)

    5. A tendency to ever bigger government, and a tendency to a larger division of wealth. I've always been for the middle class. Property is great. Everybody should have some, but not too much.

    How'd I do, Ash? Give me a grade.

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  63. pretty good Bobal though I would urge you to think about others, non-americans, when considering that list.

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  64. Mats item number 2 and bobs item number 1 about environment are somewhat in conflict.
    This is somewhat a personal perception, I quess.
    While we have vast areas that are still really really good, it was kind of a bummer to go bumper to bumper through Glacier National Park, last summer.

    But then I never got out of the car, on my feet, and hiked, like you should do.

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  66. Bob,

    When I was in California, I've driven it up and down from San Diego to Lake Tahoe and back, and I was struck by how sparsely populated it is. The rest of the South West is even more so. When I think environmental degradation, I think of people encroaching on nature. I didn't see much of that in the South West. California's Parks were large and beautiful. Sure, LA is a mess, but that's true of every mega city. I accept it as a given.

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  67. Have you ever been to Las Vegas, Mat? I think we are going through that way again, and I will try to post some pictures. And of the really vast empty spaces between Idaho and southern Nevada. 'There ain't much out there, pardner.'

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  68. Metuselah: When I was in California, I've driven it up and down from San Diego to Lake Tahoe and back, and I was struck by how sparsely populated it is.

    TUCO: "Even the armies are afraid to march through there. Sibley's men are retreating up there. Canby's men are coming here. But no one will set foot in this hell except you and me. One hundred miles. That's a nice walk. What was it you told me the last time? 'If you save your breath, I feel a man like you could manage it.'"

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  69. A whole lot of nothing but empty

    When are you heading to Vegas, bob?

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  70. Undetermined, but in the next month. Things always seem to get delayed. This, that, and the other...

    Just passing through Vegas, heading east.

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  72. If your trip routes down to I40, through Kingman and Williams/Flagstaff, let me know, maybe arrange to have breakfast or lunch, in Ash Fork or Williams?

    About three hours from Vegas

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  73. I'll do that very thing, if that's how we go.

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  74. The last time we went through Vegas we took 40 to Nashville, then up through Kentucky someways. But I can't remember now whether that was coming or going. But it was summer though, cause it was so humid in Tennessee I could barely stand it.

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  75. I see Flagstaff is right on 40. I thought you meant 140--one hundred forty. Which may not even exist. It's been awhile, my geography is not so good down there. I'll sure let you know.

    I've wondered what some of you people really look like.:)

    I don't look much like my pic, though I am white, and older.

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  76. "Have you ever been to Las Vegas, Mat? "

    Yes. I wasn't terribly impressed. For my taste, the Grand Canyon/Sedona were a much better destination. Loved the cacti gardens/museums in and around Phenix.

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