Watch this one too.
The Generals, and the Politicians weren't worthy. As usual.
Bad strategy, bad planning, poor execution.Lack of achievable goals, lack of understanding of Iraq and Iraqis, under estimating Iran, over estimating US.Lack of resolve at the highest levels. No defined enemy.Best example of total US meltdown is in Anbar, where the current failure a total meltdown in fact, based upon '04 Goals, is touted as success, today.Creating a tactical breathing space, but a strategic defeat.
Not winning the War, before losing the peace.
What happened?Used to be my nightmare, the thought of whole bookshelves, again, sagging under the weight of a generation's worth of books whose authors all begin by asking, "What happened?"Used to be. My nightmare now is that five years from now, Wretchard will still be insisting that what happened was, the NYT didn't play along and our information ops couldn't compete. This was the conclusion drawn by many after the last defeat as well."Bad strategy, bad planning"...bad idea. Until you get to the bad idea part, you're just casting about for answers to "Who fucked up my perfectly good war?"The generals and the politicians, whit? I thought it was the fault of the political subversives at State and CIA. We've come a long way, baby.
Whoops, "the Generals, and the politicians" was rufus.It was whit who liked to hang it on State and CIA.My bad.That we, the American people (who like to blame the government without blaming ourselves) chose to do a really stupid thing, is what happened. I don't need to wait for the "verdict of history" on that one.
I don't guess the fact that our guys are killing AQ by the scores as we speak is of any relevence, here?
Trish: That we, the American people (who like to blame the government without blaming ourselves) chose to do a really stupid thing, is what happened.We won the war, mission accomplished and all that. You can't win an occupation, you can only end it.
This approach of drawing down our forces while maintaining the military presence needed to preserve democracy in the country and launch special operations missions against terrorists would save U.S. lives and tax dollars as well as prevent Iraq from becoming a base of operations for foreign jihadists and buy valuable time to train Iraqi forces.This policy I suggest entails risk that the political or military process inside Iraq may not come out as we hope. But we are already at risk in the Middle East.American interests come down to protection of our national security, protection of Israel's right to exist, and averting, if possible, a general war in the Middle East, nuclear or otherwise. Our present conduct in Iraq distracts from or is detrimental to those goals.New Iraq
A score is 144 is it not, rufus.The "Push", in the last two days has dispatched 31 KIA, 72 detained, per the MNF press release site, which is updated daily.They list each detainee and confirmed insurgent death.I'll be keeping a running tally for a week or so, seems informative, reading each release.Regardless, we are not killed scores, 288, recently.Not inclusive of Monday or today, anyway. That's when the "Surge" offense began, according to General P.31 KIA, 72 captured, in this major offensive, so far.Feel free to back date to some other date, I'm sure we'd reach 288 eventually. But this is the big offensive, the entire compliment of surging troops have arrived.The Push is on!
Obviously, T, our war objectives have encompassed far more than simply removing one pissant potentate and the merry gang in Kabul and Kandahar.And, no, rufus, I'm not awarding points for killing AQ in Iraq to anyone but those who are doing the killing. We spread that infection and, when we're done, they'll still be there.
What the fuck, Rat? A score is twenty. I suppose more than forty is "Scores." But, what kind of sophmoric bullshit is that, anyway. There's, obviously, a big battle going on. We're going to lose a lot of folks; and, you just gotta make your snarky comments. Piss.
if u r keeping score desrt rat how many enemy kia this week?72 captured, what were there names?what time were they released?how can we verify this?where r they from?where r they now?sure they were not dumped dead in a ditch?teach me, i have far to go and much to learn
I guess 144 is a gross.Snarky, not at all.Yes, our soldiers and Marines will be dying, hope the Iraqi appreciate it. Mr Maliki does not appreciate the US tactics in Anbar, setting up the Insurgents with weapons and cash. He feels that is detrimental to his Government's best interests.We used to, but have changed our minds and our policies. Democracy and rule of law not being as important for Iraq as they were in 2004.The troops of the United States are out there, dying for the Maliki Government, giving them breathing room to reconcile.Hope that it is worth it. With Mr al-Hakim dying of cancer, and Mr Sistani being older than the hills, Mr al-Sadr is in the cat birds seat, in the democratic Iraqi government.Reconciliation, our troops are dying for that.Not snarky at all.Worthy of the US sacrifice, those Iraqi are, they deserve it.
I do not know elijah, that is why I gave you the link.Read the MNF news releases, then figure it out for yourself.E-mail the information officer, the address is there, let us know the outcome.The releases are informative enough for me, that and Mr West's reports. Along with Mr Yon's.
Tell us DR, is Basra still the model?It seems the Shia in the south are not so willing to share their oil wealth with the Persian Shia?Is Basra still the model?Will Najaf bow to Qom?
Senators Kennedy, McConnell, and Lott are working day and night to revive the Amnesty Bill. A new round of votes is expected this week.Please send a fax to your Senators reminding them that A vote FOR cloture is a vote FOR Amnesty! Send Free Fax Here!
Doug tell us, you do not seem happy with the immigration issue but dr says the system is working the way it is supposed to more or less; do u agree with this his view?Is the system working?
DR engages in Cynical Sarcasm at the expense of our less than honest POTUS.
Yes, Mr Bush, Mr Cheney and Ms Rice all told US that Basra was the model of Iraqi success.That the Brits were leaving, because they had succeeded, not because they had failed.They were not, and still are not, being replaced with US troops or other MNF forces.So, yes, the US considers Basra a success story, unless the official spokesmen for US say other wise. They do not.So, elijah, look to Basra, see success.How many more US soldiers, sailors, airman and Marines should the US sacrifice to gain that level of success in Baghdad and Fallujah, Tkirit and Mosul, let alone Kikurk?
Immigration, elijah, here is the deal.In 1986 the US had a few million undocumented Americans living in it.This was found to be unacceptable, so they were legalized. Those that objected were told that workplace enforcement, heavy fines and prosecutions would stop future undocumented Americans from entering and remaining in the 50 United States and its' territories.The fines and prosecutions never materialized, workplace enforcement became non-existent.20 million new undocumented Americans have arrived, since then.This has been well known since at least 1995. The Congress took no action, as the President did not enforce the Law. The Congress did not fund Law enforcement, as the Presidents, 41, 42, & 43 did not ask.No one took action in Federal Court, no Supreme decision ordering enforcement was ever handed down.System working as designed.The public becomes incensed, when 1986 redux, is proposed.As designed by the founders.Something will now happen, as designed.The System is functioningOutcomes vary.
The left tells us we are massacring Muslims?You tell us we are impotent.What should I believe?So let's say we tuck our tails desert rat, remove ourselves from the region.Will u explain the pretty picture of peace and prosperity for the Sunni and Shia after our departure?Will they kill one another?On another topic, are the Hindus losing to the Pakis in Kashmir?Also, we did not finish our discussion about close air superiority the other night.Helos and slow flying fixed wings are at risk from MANPADS and advanced Russian SAMs.Which country's paradigm for close air support should we emulate?
At a noon briefing, Odierno told company and unit commanders to stick to the mission.“Sometimes I know it’s hard for you all to see it,” he said. “But I do see us moving forward.”As he boarded the helicopter after his afternoon trip he said that Washington politicians need to give the effort more time.Progress in Iraq
"Will u explain the pretty picture of peace and prosperity for the Sunni and Shia after our departure?"You bleeding heart, you.
My nightmare trish, is that i will have to read another post listening to you whine about "The generals and the politicians" "subversives at State and CIA"What words of wisdom did you have for me months ago friend?Let's see...if it's so important to you why don't YOU do something?We r not going to do it for u.
There has been a steady migration from south to north, for almost 40 years. With a "Remedy" for the first 20+ years, since Ike, ccoming in '86If the migration was halted the pressure building up for social change in Mexico, after 72 years of PRI stagnation, would be explosive.A new revolution or civil war in the 31 United States of Mexico would be disasterous for the 50 United States of America. The oil exports being of primary concern.Much more so then the 26 milllion total undocumented Americans have been.Never discussed or debated, but the real deal.Google IBEC Italy, you'll find a story of how IBEC, a Rockefeller family project, successfully tested cultural modification through consumerization. IBEC was active in Mexico during the 1960s. Today Wal-Mart, in Mexico is carrying the torch, opening stores and consumer banks across the southern 31 States. Cash dispersments, from the US to southern families keeps the revolution in check, until the internal Mexican economy can expand. The PRI is still a reasonably potent political force, the further left is strong as well. Mr Felipe De Jesus CALDERON Hinojosa does not wield Dictorial power.Even if he did, the society is not yet ready. Read that IBEC story.
Trish,The pencil heads might be writing libraries full of books on this, let's try and be a tad more modest and sum it up for them in two words. How about: deliberate incompetence?
Okay, there's a lot of that worthless Arab blood, there; and, they're ate up with that shitty, bloodthirsy, barbaric muslim religion.BUT, there's got to be A LITTLE BIT of that ancient Sumerian blood dripping around there, somewhere. WHAT IF in ten years there really is a Democracy there; and, we DIDN'T have to fight a Major War (possibly Atomic) in the region?What if?
What country to emulate?In what kind of war?Air lose percentages of slow movers in Vietnam were quite high. Mostly to small arms fire.The helo losses of a few months ago must have modified US operations, or the threat has been minmized tacticly, as we've not lost many since that flurry of 6 or 8.The F16 was lost on take off.More A-10 type airframes, lower in cost allowing for greater numbers of units.As NATO lack of aircraft, both fix and rotary, in Afghanistan is a concern of the British.In areas of high risk ground fire the use of high dollar F22s in close air support of ground troops does not sound reasonable.Risk management of such high dollar assets would preclude it.Best to have other, less costly specialty aircraft for the high risk missions as ground troop life support.
Rufus,No ifs about it. Sumeria = Kurdistan
Nelson A. Rockefeller created IBEC in 1946 with the aim of promoting economic development in Latin America after he had observed the poor living conditions ...
The F-22 and it's supporting cast was deemed too expensive to display at the Paris Air Show.Not even a Show Horse.
There could be, rufus.But not because the US imposes it.Our guys have to win the war.But we have to decide who are our guys. Westhawk has a piece about it.Quotes Iraqi that say the US changes direction, in Iraq, every 90 days.I have no idea as to the verasity of that, but sure of the Iraqi perspective of it.Because we have. Anbar is an example of a total flip flop of US policy. For better or worse.
Doug, Why show it? We ain't selling any.
I was watching tv yesterday, and they were exploding IEDs with B-1 Bombers, operating, I would guess, from 20,000 ft.Close air support during the first 100 hrs against a major power will be B-2's, and F-35's. After that it will be B-1's, B-52's, etc.
Ahh yes, we’ve come so far in our expectations of what a “war” is and how it should be fought. Planning, execution, winning the peace, exit strategy…sounds more like a hostile corporate takeover, not a war. Abu Ghraib, Haditha, Gitmo….our soldiers need lawyers now instead of tools of war. 3,500 dead over four years…too much dying for too little payoff. Let our soldiers go back to the U.S. where 1,700 souls have been murdered in Los Angeles alone during the same timeframe… its so much safer.Too bad B-52’s loaded wall to wall with MK-82’s have yet to be used in Iraq. I think Baquba would be a great place to start. Otherwise, this is not really a war but a political campaign with some violence used when necessary to keep things lively.
When you can 'splode IEDs from twenty thousand, close air support takes on a whole new dimension.
Road to Tora Bora
When they can detonate saggers and rpgs from 20,000 ft, that'd be close air support.Hope we can, fly over head, and then the bad guys land mines, demo & flying shape charges all go off.Then we have it made.The ratio of captured to killed, as compared to earlier wars, indicates we are not prosecuting a war, but policing the streets against world class thugs, ruffians and gangsters.
Try this:Road to Tora BoraClick on the 'Audio, video take you there' link.
Let's Dance:X Band Comes to Oahu The $815 million military apparatus, a converted oil drilling rig topped by a giant white globe, rises some 28 stories from its keel to the top of the radar dome.It is part of a planned missile defense network the U.S. military is rolling out in the Pacific Rim. The X-band radar is so powerful it can identify baseball-size objects from thousands of miles away and is designed to differentiate between decoys and real missile warheads.
Deterence through knowledge, rufus, would be the reason to take the F22 to the Show.May not have been worth it, since no one else can field an economy to build and fly a flock of competitive planes.
"Let our soldiers go back to the U.S. where 1,700 souls have been murdered in Los Angeles alone during the same timeframe…"---NINETY PERCENT Of Outstanding Murder Warrants in LA are for:...you guessed it:ILLEGALS!
So that would be around 200 - 400 murders instead of 1,700, I'd guess without our hard working, GOP Voting, Family Valued Friends from S of the Border.
Fly over head and all the T-72s just explode.Fly that bugger over Syria.Then the Israeli could give up the Golan, and be secure.
Fly over head and all the T-72s just explode.Just a matter of time, you know?
You know, F-22's are "almost" invisible to radar; But NOT QUITE.The trick seems to be to arrange the radars just such around the kill zone. Maybe we just didn't want to give them a chance to do any more research than we had to?
Russia-Syria military cooperation was put on the back burner in the early 1990s over debts for Soviet supplies. With contacts resumed in 1996, the Syrian army took delivery of Russian Kornet-E and Metis-M anti-tank rocket systems, RPG-29 grenade launchers, Bastion, Sheksna, and Refleks guided tank rockets, and small arms.In 2004-2005, the two countries signed contracts for Strelets ground-to-air missile systems with Igla-S missiles, and about 50 Pantsyr-S1 ground-to-air missile gun systems to a value of $730 million. In 2006, they concluded an agreement for Russia to upgrade Syria's 1,000 T-72 tanks.Russia is also planning to improve Syria's air defenses.Supplies to Middle East
That's why we won't be fightin' that kind of war, no more.Just more Iraqs and Somalias and Sudans, as far as the eye can see.Oh, eliah, where ever you went.Pakistan vs India over Kashmere?Who is winning?Pakistan, as the terror continues, as long as it does, the aggressor is winning. Indian defense has to win every time, Pakistani offense only once. Depending upon the objectives, conflict for the sake of it, not strategic gain.Propaganda, discord, influencing investments and elections in Pakistan.Bombings across India, not militarily signifigant.Just as Mr Rumsfeld told US about the insurgent attacks in Iraq.
I guess saggers dates me, aye?
Deterence through ignorance, a secure choice.
I'm sitting here watching the Super German Artillery Piece on the Military Channel. Oh, it is a Magnificent, high-tech piece of weaponry; and, just as irrelevent as teats on a boar hog.They might as well be talking about high-tech swords, and longbows.
Thus, the United States probably will have to deter an Iranian or North Korean nuclear attack, or the giving or selling of these nuclear weapons to terrorists, by using the most powerful nuclear arsenal in the world. Such deterrence was effectively carried out against bigger and more powerful states--Maoist China and the USSR--until they either moderated their behavior or disintegrated, respectively. In the case of Maoist China, the United States deterred a radical nation that indirectly threatened nuclear war with the West. If the United States deterred such large powers, it should certainly be able to deter the smaller and poorer Iran and North Korea.It is also a good bet that both unpopular, autocratic governments will collapse at some time in the future. In addition, the United States could offer these two nuclear powers limited assistance in safeguarding their nuclear weapons against theft and tips on keeping control of them in order to avoid an accidental or unauthorized launch.Nuclear Weapons
Sunni Shia, well about 40% of the prewar Sunni population has hit the highway, according to UN refugee reports, which the US has not disputed.The rest can accept minority, no power status in the new federally democratic Iraq, fight or depart for fairer climes.The Shia will win, as predicted in '03 by Mr Bremmer. How that effects the regional balance, as the success in Basra indicates, it will benefit Iran.But the US is not at war with Iran, at least publicly.No Congressional Authorization, but no limitations, either.The Civil War would end in blood. The outside powers could not interfere, as we'd not depart, totally.
Same solution as in '04, '05, '06, and this year or next.