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Saturday, June 23, 2007

Combat Troops or Cops?

What is going on here? Is this an after battle report or a criminal investigation? I did not hear anyone getting read their Miranda rights, but clearly these combat soldiers have to prepare reports to satisfy someone that these captives were in fact enemy combatants. They are gathering evidence as if it were a criminal investigation. This strikes me as a frustrating waste of time and a sign of a whole new dimension to CYA. Your view?



33 comments:

  1. My view (Before Viewing, per usual} relates to my limited evening surfing:

    Steve @ threatswatch links Clifford May on AlQ. VDH comments on lack of resolve v Iraq/WOT, as usual, criticism is directed at those less than impressed w/events, not at the events themselves.

    The 800 pound Gorilla to me, aside from the ROE's per this post, is the lack of attacks on sanctuaries and supply lines.
    In any previous war it would seem to be a given that you would either address the source of replenishment and supply, or not attempt the mission.

    Here, we trudge on for years, and few of the folks we read have anything to say about the impossibility of sucess when sanctuaries and re-supply lines are left intact.
    Cops unable to pursure the purse, the cache, the hideout, the sources of cash.
    WTFIGOH?
    (is going on here)
    ---
    The Clifford May link:
    Where Will We Fight al-Qaeda?
    Al-Qaeda is in Pakistan, Lebanon, Gaza, Somalia, Algeria and in other places America seems unwilling to send her troops to fight the enemy that has killed thousands of our civilians and soldiers. And within the context of the relentless calls...

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  2. Very Sad:
    All connection to reality/common sense has been lost.
    It's as if the Feckless Dithering of the CIC has trickled down and enveloped everything below.

    Nothing left but lack of direction.
    Say the Curse!
    Dither On!

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  3. I'll repost this happy news, not to be missed:
    ---
    U.S. Group Says Pakistan Is Building New Reactor

    Pakistan, June 22 — Pakistan is building a third plutonium production reactor at a major nuclear weapons center, a sign of plans to increase the nation’s nuclear arsenal significantly, a Washington group specializing in nuclear issues said Friday.

    Based on satellite imagery of a reactor under construction at Khushab, about 100 miles south of the capital, Islamabad, it appeared that Pakistan would be able to build a new generation of lighter, more powerful weapons that could be more easily launched on missiles, said David Albright, the president of the Institute for Science and International Security.

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  4. Doug, i think you become join and do some posts.

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  5. It has been like this for years, in Iraq.
    Nothing new or interesting to be noted, now.
    It is just that the interest and learning curves on the homefront are still on the small bus.

    Kinda of retarded.

    It ain't no war, as I told the folk at BC two or more years ago, now. They did not want to believe that reality, something to do with a "Clash of Civilizations", or some thing along those lines.

    Secure in the knowledge, that no matter the fecklessness of the operations, the United States, all 48 of them, would prevail, just because.

    If only Dan Rather would allow it.

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  6. When even Mitt Romney says Mr Bush is lost, following the wrong course.

    That the US lacks STRATEGIC Goals in the War.

    Mr Bush cannot even keep the help on the Reservation.
    The pooch is screwed, that's a fact.

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  7. He argued that to defeat the "global jihadist threat," the United States must institute a worldwide strategy in which it works more closely with allies, "brings more tools of our national power to bear," and tailors different strategies to specific countries deemed potential terrorism hot spots.

    "We need more than a change in direction. We need a new course altogether," Romney said. "The integration, sustainability and breadth of this war against violent jihad must now take on a new dimension. We must move from tactics to strategy."

    He said the country must venture beyond its current phase in the war on terrorism, which he argued continued to be a reaction to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. "It is time to execute a global strategy for security and peace," he said.

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  8. "We need more than a change in direction. We need a new course altogether," Romney said.

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  9. Amother 7 Insurgents reported killed, puts the total to around three score and ten, since Monday.

    The "Big" offensive. Hundreds detained, to be released.

    As no new prison capacity was added, prior to the offensive.

    The Bush Abministration reportedly approved a new version of the Iraqi Oil Bill, one that does not address the issues, but has a good title, so that when and if passed, "progess" can be cited. Another sham being developed, to be played in September. More eyewash for the US public

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  10. Doug:
    It would be better if you would start posting as a working member of the EB.

    Sometimes, not always, you are the first comment and completely off topic.

    Say the word, we'll start you off as a barkeep and work you up to management. Eventually maybe we can talk about a partnership. Whadda ya think?

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  11. As to the reports needed for the detainees. Each detainee must be accompanied by reports, by two individual GIs, as to the crimes witnessed. Those crimes that made the detainee a criminal. This was detailed by bing and Owen West, in that NYTimes article, that is now behind a subscription wall.

    It is all about criminals and law enforcement, in Iraq.

    Watch and learn, have an ephinay, or revelation, as the case may be.

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  12. Gee, Whit, I thot it all connected, then 'Rat Chimed in, and it was a Symphony to my ears, but maybe I am not a 'Rat Symp, but a Phony?

    What is a thread but a collection of fibers?
    Perhaps I'll have a different perspective if I ever get some sleep!

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  13. "Watch and learn, have an ephinay, or revelation, as the case may be.

    Sat Jun 23, 09:21:00 AM EDT
    "
    We're FUCKED!

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  14. HT: Steve Martin in
    "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles."

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  15. "Symp" worked w/"Symphony" so I hadta use it.

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  16. Probly both a Symp and a Phony in 43's crowd.

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  17. Outlawed by the outlaw,
    ...and proud.
    The "Man" is a piece of work.

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  18. There is no such thing as
    FRIENDLY FIRE

    President Hamid Karzai angrily condemned Saturday "indiscriminate and unprecise" operations by NATO- and US-led forces in Afghanistan that he said had killed 90 civilians in just over a week.
    "Attacks causing civilian casualties, as I have said before, is not acceptable for us. It is no longer tolerated," Karzai told reporters at his palace.

    "As you are aware over the past several days, as result of indiscriminate and unprecise operations of NATO and coalition forces, our people suffered casualties," the grim-faced president said.

    He listed four operations over the past 10 days, including one that involved three days of fighting in the southern province of Uruzgan in which he said 52 civilians were killed in foreign forces' artillery fire.

    NATO's International Security Assistance Force said the figure for civilians killed in the three-day operation was similar to its own but it was not clear if they had been killed by security forces or by Taliban fighters.

    Karzai said that he had repeatedly asked the foreign forces helping Afghanistan to fight Taliban insurgents "to avoid unnecessary and unuseful operations."

    "But unfortunately, despite our efforts, this has not been applied and our people have been killed and wounded," he said, flanked by his Defence Minister Abdul Rahim Wardak.

    Such incidents would cause the international mission to bring security to Afghanistan to fail, he warned.

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  19. Yep, gotta believe there is no political pressure being brought to bear, against those Marines that were ambushed.

    Still being "investigated".
    That 4 Mar 07 incident where 9 Afghani civilians were killed.

    Now, the fact of the incident, those would be ascertained in the days afterward. Statements by witnesses and the Marines after action debrief, all within days. Or the statements lose credibility as the incident ages.

    What takes so long for a decision to prosecute or not to be made?
    But politics and pressure from above?

    Regardless of the eventual legal outcome.

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  20. "Doug:
    It would be better if you would start posting as a working member of the EB."

    Whit, if this happens (no problem with me) then the patron comment counter will drop by 40% or so. Can you live with that?

    30, I gotta post another one, quick, like doug.

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  21. My view is that the Pendulum Ain't Swung Yet, and Poor Sojers don't like to be accused, stand trial, get smeared by the media, get court-martialed, undergo sentencing and do jail time for fighting like they's supposed to do.

    So it's paperwork out the *zoo.

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  22. The fact that Karzai has to come out so strongly against NATO is disturbing. We know it is CYA but is his position in the country so tenuous that he feels the need to denounce his benefactors so strongly. Even BBC lately has been reporting that the Taleban are not finding Afghanistan a hospitable sea to swim in.

    As "occupiers" we are held to very high standards while the true barbarians, those that send the suicide bombers get away with murder. It's as if since that is their modus operandi, little is said about them by the NGOs and world media.

    The much anticipated spring offensive in Afghanistan has been less than billed but the situation in that country seems stagnant. Orwellian in fact, more akin to the trench warfare of WWI. In Helmand Province, nightly patrols and skirmishes retake the same towns and villages that "retaken" the night before. How long does NATO think it can keep pulling weeds while the overgrown yard next door in Pakistan keeps producing the seeds. This nonsense could go on forever or until the Mohammedan madmen go nuclear. What are we doing? Simply trying to keep a lid on things until the ultimate provocation?

    BTW: BBC reported this week that as many as one million Afghanis may be addicted to opium. Pakistan has a similar problem.

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  23. Afghanistan could come along much quicker if it were behind the "front lines." How much easier it would be to occupy if the front has been advanced along the Taleban's line of retreat. Obviously, this "new style of warfare" is less than desirable. The plus side is that we have certainly gotten ourselves some battle hardened soldiers. The downside is that it could go on forever. There's no resolution in sight with we keep on keeping on in this manner.

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  24. If there is a newer release, that quantifies the enemy KIA at four score and ten. That is most likely accurate. That I became confused in the tabulations, based upon the releases and their combining of the enemy losses on Wendsday & Thursday.
    Four score and ten, in five days.

    Let's make it an even Five score.
    100
    Five days of offense.
    20 per day, KIA

    $100 Billion per year. Divided by 365 = $275 million per day
    $1.37 Billion spent, to kill 100 terrorists.
    $13.7 million per head.
    Dead, those taken alive not factored into this particular equation.

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  25. It's still accounted for by words, pair, dozen, score, gross.

    Not even a peck or a bussul begun to be discuessed. But why would they be, when aQ & Takiban forces form up in the open, in rank and file formation, and are determined to be in a "No Fire" zone, then allowed to disperse, without engagement outside the cemetery.

    Only an example of typical military decisions, one that happened to make it across the threshhold of public knowledge.

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  26. whit said...

    BTW: BBC reported this week that as many as one million Afghanis may be addicted to opium. Pakistan has a similar problem.


    We ought to be encouraging opium production in AFG and flooding Pakistan with that shit the way Mexico floods US with meth.

    Screw bombs. Lets turn that hellhole into a nation of junkies too spaced out to fight the Jihad.

    That strategy blunted the Chinese for a couple-of-three centuries.

    Could work for us too. Get the Iranians to do it.

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  27. "Let's make it an even Five score.
    100
    Five days of offense.
    20 per day, KIA

    $100 Billion per year. Divided by 365 = $275 million per day
    $1.37 Billion spent, to kill 100 terrorists.
    $13.7 million per head.
    Dead, those taken alive not factored into this particular equation.
    "
    ---
    That's the money, then there's the 10,000 troops and all that implies, from KIAs to overstretch, to equipment wear tear and loss, loss of support at home.
    Very expensive jihadis, those.

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  28. Without the benefit of uniforms, how does one differentiate the bodies of insurgents at the morgue from those of civilians?

    On a related note, what are some relatively specific numbers for cannon rounds and/or rockets utilized by CENTAF in 2007 for air support?

    In Afghanistan, would a student at a madrassa be considered a civilian or insurgent?

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