Organ Gangs Force Poor to Sell Kidneys for Desperate
Israelis
‘Exploit Shortages’
“There have been
successes fighting organ trafficking around the world,” Delmonico says.
“But organ trafficking continues to flourish because criminals exploit shortages of organ donors.”
“But organ trafficking continues to flourish because criminals exploit shortages of organ donors.”
Bloomberg Markets
reported in June that U.S. citizens and others from the Americas suffering from
kidney failure were going to Nicaragua and Peru to buy organs in a shadowy
trade that injured and killed donors and recipients.
That U.S.-Latin
American connection is dwarfed by a network of organ-trafficking organizations
whose reach extends from former Soviet Republics such as Azerbaijan, Belarus
and Moldova to Brazil, the
Philippines, South Africa
and beyond, a Bloomberg Markets investigation shows.
Many of the
black-market kidneys harvested by these gangs are destined for people who live
in Israel.
Not Enough Donors
With a generally
well-educated population of 7.4 million and a modern medical system, Israel has
an acute shortage of organs, in part because of religious beliefs. Just 12
percent of Israelis are registered donors, meaning they have consented to let
their organs be used for transplants after they die, according to the Israeli
National Transplant Center.
That compares with
40 percent of Americans. About 730 Israelis are currently waiting for a
transplant, which is 13 times more than the number of such surgeries performed
legally in Israel in 2010, according to the center.
Delmonico,
a professor of surgery at Harvard Medical School, has spent the past six years
lobbying governments and doctors around the world to combat organ trafficking.
...
The dearth of
available organs in Israel has spawned a new class of criminals, mainly
immigrants from the former Soviet
Union, says Jerusalem
Police Superintendent Gilad Bahat.
Investigators on
five continents say they have uncovered intertwining criminal rings run by
Israelis and eastern Europeans that move people across borders -- sometimes
against their will -- to sell a kidney.
“The criminal here
is the middleman who profits from the sick and the poor,” says Bahat, who
investigated an organ- trafficking ring in Jerusalem. “It touches my
heart that people will sell part of their body because they need money to
live.”
‘Obscene Profit’
Criminals see an
opportunity to make big money in the organ trade, where they can sell a kidney
for 15 to 20 times what they pay, police throughout Europe say.
“They recognize the
obscene profit that can be made in the expanding black market in body parts,”
says Jonathan Ratel, a Pristina, Kosovo-based prosecutor who has been investigating organ trafficking over the past two years. “It keeps happening because there is so much money in this.”
says Jonathan Ratel, a Pristina, Kosovo-based prosecutor who has been investigating organ trafficking over the past two years. “It keeps happening because there is so much money in this.”
Traffickers
typically pay $10,000 to a seller for a kidney and collect $150,000 when
selling it to a patient.
Traffickers prey on
the most-vulnerable people. Moldova, the poorest
country in Europe, is one of their prime hunting grounds.
Dorin Razlog, a
shepherd with an eighth-grade education who lives in Ghincauti, says recruiters
for a trafficking ring told him cash for a kidney would lift him out of
poverty. After doctors in Istanbul cut out the organ in August 2002, they paid
him $7,000 -- $3,000 less than they’d offered. Of that, $2,500 was in
counterfeit bills, he says.
Prosecutors in nine
countries have been conducting criminal probes of organ trafficking involving
Israeli patients since 2003. The largest case dates to that year, when the
Brazilian Federal Police noticed people from two slums of Recife, a coastal
city 2,110 kilometers (1,311 miles) from Sao Paulo, flying to Durban, South
Africa.
They returned home
in so much pain from incisions across their abdomens that they needed
assistance to get off the plane, says Karla Gomes de Matos Maia, the
investigator who led the probe.
‘Suspect Organ
Trafficking’
“Here you had people
who didn’t fit the profile of tourists going to a strange destination and
coming back after having major surgery,” Maia says. “We began to suspect organ
trafficking.”
The Brazilian case
is still wending its way through international courts. In November 2010 in
Durban, Netcare Ltd. (NTC)
-- South Africa’s largest hospital company -- pleaded guilty to violating the
Human Tissue Act, which prohibits buying and selling organs.
Netcare paid 7.8
million rand ($848,464) in fines and penalties. It admitted to allowing 92
transplants in which donors from Brazil, Israel and Romania sold kidneys to
Israeli patients. Four doctors are awaiting trial on trafficking charges.
* * * * * * * *
Palestinians accuse the
Israeli army of selling the organs of its victims
Donald Boström
Israel has admitted
that in the 1990s, its forensic pathologists harvested organs from dead bodies,
including Palestinians, without permission of their families.
The issue emerged
with publication of an interview with the
then-head of Israel's Abu Kabir
forensic institute, Dr. Jehuda Hiss.
Doctor Jehuda Hiss |
The interview was conducted in 2000 by an
American academic, who released it because of a huge controversy last summer
over an allegation by a Swedish newspaper that Israel was killing Palestinians
in order to harvest their organs. Israel hotly denied the charge.
Parts of the
interview were broadcast on Israel's Channel 2 TV over the weekend. In it, Hiss
said,
"We started to harvest corneas ... Whatever was done was highly
informal.
No permission was asked from the family."
The Channel 2 report
said that in the 1990s, forensic specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin,
corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli
citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from
relatives.
In a response to the
TV report, the Israeli military confirmed that the practice took place.
August, 17, 2009
"I am what you can call a 'matchmaker'”, said
Levy Izhak Rosenbaum from Brooklyn, USA, in a secret recording by an FBI-agent
whom he believed to be a client. Ten days later, at the end of July this year,
Rosenbaum was arrested in connection with a massive corruption ring uncovered
in New Jersey: rabbis, congressmen and entrusted officials had for years been
busy with money laundering and the illegal organ trade, which now ended up like
a Sopranos episode. Rosenbaum’s matchmaking had nothing to do
with romance and everything to do with buying and selling, on the black
market, kidneys from Israel. According
to his own statements, he buys
organs from poor people in Israel for $10,000 and sells
them back to desperate patients in the US for $160,000. ...
Levy Izhak Rosenbaum is driven away by FBI agents.
Rosenbaum was allegedly a middleman in the illegal
organ trade.
Photo: AP
|
On the
question of how many organs were sold, Rosenbaum says: "Quite a lot."
And he boasts, "I have never failed." His business was carried out
over a very long period of time.
Francis
Delmonici, a professor in transplant surgery at Harvard, and member of the
Board at the National Kidney Foundation’s Board of Directors, is quoted in the same newspaper, saying that the same type of organ
trafficking which takes place in Israel, also takes place in other parts of the
world. Delmonici says that of
the 63,000 kidney transplants
in the world, approximately 10% are illegal.
Hot
countries for that type of illegal trade are Pakistan, the Philippines and
China, where it is believed that organs are taken from executed prisoners. But
strong suspicion also exists in Palestine, where people believe that their
young men, captured as prisoners, have, as in China and Pakistan, been taken as organ donors and that they
were later executed. This is a very
serious allegation that raises
so many questions, that the ICJ, International Court of Justice, should
absolutely open an investigation over the possibility of war crimes perpetrated
by Israel.
Israel
has time and again been at the forefront of criticism when it comes to its
unethical way of handling organs and transplants. Countries like France have
suspended their cooperation on organs
with Israel since the beginning of the 90s, and the Jerusalem Post
wrote:
”Other countries in
Europe are expected to follow France’s example shortly”.
Half
of the new kidneys that Israelis have received since the beginning of the year
2000 have been illegally bought from Turkey, Eastern Europe or South America.
The Israeli health-care authorities have a complete knowledge of the activity,
but do nothing to stop it. In 2003, at a conference, it was revealed that
Israel is the only western country where doctors do not condemn the illegal
trade of organs or take any legal measures against doctors who have conducted such illegal operations. To the contrary, according to Dagens Nyheter
(December 5, 2003), the Chief
Doctors of the largest hospitals are involved in the majority of illegal
transplant cases, .
In an
attempt to fill the need for organs in the country, Israel’s then health
minister, Ehud Olmert, ordered a large
campaign in the summer of 1992, to get the Israeli population to come forward
as organ donors. One half million pamphlets were distributed to local
newspapers where citizens were encouraged to write to donate their organs after
their death. Ehud Olmert was the first to write his name down.
Only a
couple of weeks later, the Jerusalem Post
wrote that the campaign had been very successful. Not less than 35 000 persons
had enrolled, when usually it’s about 500 a month. In the same article, the
journalist Judy Siegel, wrote that the
gap between offer and demand was still extensive. 500 persons were queuing for
a kidney transplant, but only 124 could receive surgery.
Out of 45 persons in
need of a new liver, only three had a chance to get an operation in Israel.
At the
same time when that campaign was going on,
young Palestinians were disappearing
and were being returned at night to their villages,
five days later, dead and
ripped up.
The story
of the ripped up bodies terrified the populations in Gaza and the West Bank.
There was a story of a dramatic increase of young men’s disappearance, with the
subsequent nightly funerals of autopsied young men.
I
was in the area working on a
book when I was contacted several times by UN staff members who were worried about the situation. Those who contacted me said that the theft of organs
indeed took place, but that there was nothing they could do. On assignment for
a TV company, I traveled around and spoke with a great number of Palestinian
families in the West Bank and Gaza, who declared that their sons had been
robbed of their organs before they were killed. One of the examples I came
across on that gruesome journey was the young stone thrower Bilal Achmed
Ghanan.
It
was close to midnight when the sound of the engines of cars coming from the Israeli military column was heard in the
outskirts of the small village called Imatin on the northern part of the West
Bank. The two thousand villagers were awake and stood silently, shadowed in the
dark. Some were posted on the roofs, others behind their curtains, houses or
trees that could give them protection in the darkness under the curfew but
could give them a good view
over what would become the cemetery for the village’s first martyr. The
military had cut off all electrical power around the village and the area was
restricted to the military — not a single cat could move outside without
risking its life. The darkness’ numbing silence was only broken by quiet
sobbing, and I don’t remember if we were shivering because of the cold or
because of the suspense. Five days earlier, on May 13th, 1992, an Israeli
special force unit had waited in an ambush at the village’s carpentry shop. The person the special forces were looking for was the young 19-year old Bilal Achmed Ghanan, whom they had
orders to neutralize, as he was
one those active young Palestinians who rendered the Israeli occupation forces’
lives miserable by throwing stones.
Bilal
Ghanan was one of the leading stone throwers and had been on the wanted list
for a couple of years. This meant that he and other wanted stone throwing boys
lived under the bare sky up in the Nablus Mountains. To be captured implied
death and all the stories about previous torture scenes did not improve things.
So they remained in the mountains. But for one reason or another, Bilal came
down from the mountains one day
and wandered unprotected into the village, passing the carpenter’s house on that unlucky day in mid-May. Why he did
come down on that particular day, not even Talal, his older brother,
could say. Perhaps there was a
lack of food and they were short of supplies.
Everything
happened according to plans for the Israeli Special Forces unit. They stubbed
out their cigarettes, took away the cans of Coca Cola and took aim calmly and
quietly through the broken window. When Bilal was near enough, they only had to
squeeze the trigger. He got shot the first time in the chest. According to the
villagers who witnessed the incident, he was also shot after that, once in each
leg. After which, two soldiers ran out from the carpentry shop and shot him
twice in the stomach. Finally, they took Bilal by the feet and dragged him down
the 20 steps of stone of the carpentry. The villagers also say that afterwards,
people from the UN and the Red Crescent who happened to be in the area and had
heard the shots came to take care of the wounded.
The
discussion over who would take care of the victim ended when the Israeli forces
took charge of the badly hurt Bilal, loaded him into a jeep and drove away to
the village’s outskirts. There waited a military helicopter that took Bilal
away to an unknown destination.
Five
days later, he was back in the darkness, dead and wrapped up in green hospital
cloths. When the military column, that had come to get Bilal from the autopsy
center Abu Kabir outside Tel Aviv, stopped by the place where Bilal would be placed to rest, someone recognized the Israeli military leader by the name of
Captain Yahya. In the dark, a person whispered “The worst of them all” in my ear. After Captain Yahya’s men had
unloaded the body and exchanged the green cloth for a light colored cotton
cloth, a few male relatives were picked up to complete the job by digging earth and mixing cement.
Together
with the sharp sound of the spades, some laughs were heard on the part of the
soldiers who waited to go home as they exchanged jokes with each other. When
Bilal was lowered down to the ground, his chest was exposed and it became
suddenly clear to those who were present what type of abuse he had been
subjected to. Bilal was by no means the first person who was buried with a
stitched up body from the stomach to the neck, but speculation about the
purpose jumpstarted.
Bilal Achmed Ghanan, 19 years old, was shot
and taken by Israeli soldiers.
His body was later returned stitched up again
from belly to neck. Photo: Donald
Boström
|
The
victimized Palestinian families on the West Bank and Gaza were convinced of
what had happened to their sons. "Our sons are used as unwilling organ donors," said the relatives of Khaled from Nablus to me. The same went with Raed from Jenin and the
cousins to Machmod and Nafes from Gaza, who all disappeared over a number of
days and had returned at night, dead and autopsied.
Bilal
Achmed Ghanem was one of the 133 Palestinians who were killed in various ways that year. According to Palestinian
statistics, the reasons of death were as follows: shot in the street, explosion, battery, tear gas, intentionally run over by a car,
hanged in prison, shot at school, killed in the house, etc. Of those 133
assassinated persons of all ages from four months to 88 years old, 69 were
autopsied, which is to say half of the dead. The routine autopsies carried out on dead Palestinians, as the army spokesman said, do not match the reality in the occupied areas. The
questions remain.
We know
that there is a great need for organs in Israel. And we know that there is a
widespread illegal organ trade under way, that it has been going on for a long
time, that it takes place with the blessing of the authorities, and that
high-level doctors in the largest hospitals and officials at different levels
also take part in it. And we know that Palestinian young men disappeared, that
they were returned five days later under mysterious circumstances at night,
ripped up and stitched back.
At this point the British Embassy filed a complaint with Israel.
* * * * * * * *
Israeli Organ Harvesting
by ALISON WEIR
In the article, “Our
sons plundered for their organs,” veteran journalist Donald Bostrom writes that
Palestinians “harbor strong suspicions against Israel for seizing young men and
having them serve as the country’s organ reserve – a very serious accusation,
with enough question marks to motivate the International Court of Justice (ICJ)
to start an investigation about possible war crimes.”
An army of Israeli
officials and apologists immediately went into high gear, calling both Bostrom
and the newspaper’s editors “anti-Semitic.” The Israeli foreign minister was
reportedly “aghast” and termed it “a demonizing piece of blood libel.” An Israeli
official called it “hate porn.”
The fact is,
however, that substantiated evidence of public and private organ trafficking
and theft, and allegations of worse, have been widely reported for many years.
Given such context, the Swedish charges become far more plausible than might
otherwise be the case and suggest that an investigation could well turn up
significant information.
Below are a few
examples of previous reports on this topic.
Israel’s first heart
transplant
Israel’s very first,
historic heart transplant used a heart removed from a living patient without
consent or consulting his family.
In December 1968 a
man named Avraham Sadegat (the New York Times seems to give his name as A
Savgat) (2) died two days after a stroke, even though his family had been told
he was “doing well.”
After initially
refusing to release his body, the Israeli hospital where he was being treated
finally turned the man’s body over to his family. They discovered that his
upper body was wrapped in bandages; an odd situation, they felt, for someone
who had suffered a stroke.
When they removed
the bandages, they discovered that the chest cavity was stuffed with bandages,
and the heart was missing.
During this time,
the headline-making Israeli heart transplant had occurred. After their initial
shock, the man’s wife and brother began to put the two events together and
demanded answers.
The hospital at
first denied that Sadegat’s heart had been used in the headline-making
transplant, but the family raised a media storm and eventually applied to three
cabinet ministers. Finally, weeks later and after the family had signed a
document promising not to sue, the hospital admitted that Sadagat’s heart had
been used.
The hospital
explained that it had abided by Israeli law, which allowed organs to be
harvested without the family’s consent. (3) (The United Nations
Convention against Transnational Organized Crime includes the extraction of
organs in its definition of human exploitation.)
Indications that the
removal of Sadagat’s heart was the actual cause of death went unaddressed.
Mysterious Scottish
death
In 1998 a Scot named
Alisdair Sinclair died under questionable circumstances while in Israeli
custody at Ben Gurion airport.
His family was
informed of the death and, according to a report in J Weekly, “…told they had
three weeks to come up with about $4,900 to fly Sinclair’s corpse home.
[Alisdair’s brother] says the Israelis seemed to be pushing a different option:
burying Sinclair in a Christian cemetery in Israel, at a cost of about $1,300.”
The family scraped
up the money, brought the body home, and had an autopsy performed at the
University of Glasgow.
It turned out that Alisdair’s heart and a tiny throat
bone were missing.
At this point the British Embassy filed a complaint with Israel.
The J report states:
“A heart said
to be Sinclair’s was subsequently repatriated to Britain, free of charge. James
wanted the [Israeli] Forensic Institute to pay for a DNA test to confirm that
this heart was indeed their brother’s, but the Institute’s director, Professor
Jehuda Hiss refused, citing the prohibitive cost, estimated by some sources at
$1,500.”
Doctor Jehuda Hiss |
Despite repeated
requests from the British Embassy for the Israeli pathologist’s and police
reports, Israeli officials refused to release either.
* * * * * *
China’s illegal organ harvesting
Transplant consent in theory only
Rep. Christopher H. Smith
In the mid-1990s, I
began holding hearings on the practice of organ harvesting of prisoners in China, and
unfortunately, the controversial practice has not gone away. At a hearing for
which I was co-chairman last week, two subcommittees of the House
Foreign Affairs Committee heard that even though few Chinese voluntarily
donate organs, China
stands next behind the United States in the yearly number of organ transplants.
With 600 transplant centers, it has become a destination for “transplant
tourism.” Each transplant of a heart or liver can provide more than $100,000 in
revenue.
What adjectives can
we use to describe the prospect that Chinese doctors and hospitals are engaged
in large-scale harvesting of human organs for profit? The ordinary words such
as “disturbing,” “appalling” or even “shocking” are inadequate.
So far, I have
referred to ordinary transplants. But there’s a graver prospect. It is that
Chinese military doctors may be engaged in organ harvesting from prisoners and
labor-camp detainees, especially prisoners of conscience.
China’s vice minister
of health acknowledged in 2005 that almost all organs come from executed
prisoners, but the number of executions in China is a “state
secret.” In China,
there are no firm statistics, no open waiting lists and no transparency in the
granting of “consent.” From the few times Chinese doctors or health officials
have discussed China’s
transplant system at international meetings, the figures don’t add up. The best
available outside estimates indicate that the number of transplants apparently
exceeds the number of criminal executions. So then, what is the source of the
additional organs?
….
The most gruesome
testimony came from Chinese doctors who told Mr. Gutmann
that some of the organs for transplant came from still-living victims.
Yes, these reports
of horror sanctioned by a modern state beg for evidence, and proof is in short
supply. But this possibility pushes us into a horrific beyond, a beyond that
challenges our language, making “barbaric” too calm a word, too leached of horror.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2009/08/28/israeli-organ-harvesting/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-01/organ-gangs-force-poor-to-sell-kidneys-for-desperate-israelis.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/sep/18/chinas-illegal-organ-harvesting/#ixzz2wNRsNUfR
Dayyum.
ReplyDeleteWARNING TO READER:
ReplyDeleteThis site is an anti-semitic hate site and should be boycotted.
It's proprietor, Deuce, does not allow a Jewish man who has requested to post threads expressing an opposing view to do so.
ReplyDeleteThis site should be boycotted.
Ignore all crimes that lead back to Israel, or are committed by Israelis, or be called "anti-Semitic?"
ReplyDeleteInflate, create, distort and invent all crimes for Israel.
DeleteA daily diatribe about the invented crimes of the "Israeli" makes you anti-Semitic.
DeleteSEMITIC RELIGIONS
DeleteThe three main Semitic religions are. Christianity, Judaism and Islam. They are related by a common belief in God, the hereafter and the constant battle between good and evil.
Please cut and paste where any mention of religion is made.
Israel is not a religion.
http://www.quick-facts.co.uk/religion/semitic.html
DeleteThe term "antisemitism" was coined by the German agitator and publicist, Wilhelm Marr in 1879. In that year.
DeleteWe do not speak or write German on this blog.
We do not accept proto-NAZI terms to define either US or the ENGLISH language.
We reject proto-NAZI ideologies, and propaganda terms as being acceptable.
Again, cut and paste any derogatory mention of any specific religion is made.
DeleteIf you wish to embrace Israeli propaganda, go right ahead.
But it is rejected as a debate point or a cognizant argument.
DeleteIf you wish to defend the harvesting of human body parts by Israel or China, go right ahead.
;-)
DeleteIf you wish to tell us that Doctor Hiss is a liar, go right ahead.
But he was telling the truth, he did harvest human body parts from dead human beings ,
without authorization from their families.
When the Dimwitted Duo have no other arrows in the quiver, they yell 'Racism'.
LOL.
It is a comical, but patterned reaction, from fools that have no other recourse.
thank you for posting your thread.
DeleteIt proves my point that you are in fact, an anti-Semite.
There is no discussion of any issue with you as you will lie, invent, distort and misrepresent facts.
But the general public will see, day after day, your threads and posts and draw the conclusion that this blog is a virus.
have a nice day.
The single most important economic chart?
ReplyDeleteProbably
ReplyDeleteFarmer Bob, Why don't you and 'Occupation is Human Suffering' fulfill YOUR desire and move to a 'Rat' free blog?
He has one, it is set up, and ready for YOU!
Why is it that you are sticking T&A shots in with your illegal organ harvest thread? Is Rufus's inability to find his own porn the only reason? Are you trying to boost page views? If so why not just do a porn site?
ReplyDeleteMaybe, he just wants to see who it irritates. I know, I find it interesting, if not "instructive."
Delete
ReplyDeleteIt is not PORN
Just as network media programing, like FOX News uses pretty women as 'anchors'
Just as Sun Newspaper has its 'Page 3' girl.
Both of the UK’s daily tabloid newspapers -- The Sun and The Daily Star -- offer their readers something to look forward to each day, and I’m not talking about weather forecasts and "footie" results. Of course, what I’m referring to are the topless hotties featured within the early pages of each and every issue -- the beloved Page 3 girls (in The Sun) and Star Babes (in The Daily Star).
These pages are where the careers of several famous models and TV personalities have been launched and it’s pretty much a national institution. Although feminists and other PC whiners have been lobbying for years to get the idea of Page 3 girls scrapped, fortunately, no one has paid these “activists” much attention. Due to the sheer popularity of the Page 3 girls, the feature has remained a fixture of British print media.
We don't go for 'topless' just 'racy'
Murdock is the most successful media mogul on the planet, I took note of that reality.
If you want people to 'see' the news, give a reason to look at the site.
DeleteMurdock understands readers, I understand the reasoning he uses, and see no reason not to follow his lead.
This blog is not the 'Wall Street Journal', it is a mass circulation tabloid.
If the publisher doe not like it, he can take it down or e-mail me a note. He has done neither.
Yeah, that's what I meant to say. :) :)
DeleteAlthough feminists and other PC whiners ...
DeleteAre you a PC whiner?
You have never objected to the misogynistic rants of Farmer Bob, so I know you are no Feminist.
I am well aware of organizations using T&A to boost readership. Their incomes and existence are tied to their viewership. That is not the case at this blog.
DeleteI like women and looking at them. However I do find it distasteful if I am reading about illegal organ harvest rings coupled with T&A shots or soldiers beating on folk peppered with sex shots. Heck, why not show dead kids shots coupled with T&A shots? Seems silly to me.
And heck, why not go for topless instead of racy? Why not go full bore?
If you are luring people to the site to look at your T&A shots their not going to be interested in your version of the 'news'.
Deleteand no, it's got nothing to do with being a PC whiner, but rather a regular participant in this blog concerned about the direction it is going. It has morphed from a 'chat group' arguing politics, primarily foreign policy, to a soap box begging for page views.
Delete“Don't hate the media; become the media.”
Delete― Jello Biafra
Post any thread you wish to on any subject that interests you.
You have the authority and the technological knowledge to do so.
Don't whine about my editorial decisions, take action and lead the way, Ash.
Step up and DO SOMETHING.
DeleteLEAD BY EXAMPLE
I am, by confronting you on your decisions.
DeleteThough, I must say, I'm mostly inclined to be silent and go elsewhere.
Delete"Mostly"
DeleteWhere was your "tasteful-meter" when Doug, and Wio were accusing me of wanting to "suck Obama's dick?"
DeleteMaybe you would have found it "distasteful" if I were accused of wanting to spank Michelle's ass?
DeleteOr when they were calling Deuce a NAZI.
DeleteDesert Rat a murderer.
There were no cries of 'distasteful', then.
Your 'taste' meter is broken, Ash.
You accept libel, but object to images of women.
Do what you want to do. But do not use me as an excuse for your lack of initiative.
Fuck, there is a lot of shit spewed by a lot of people here. I am not in the habit of taking them all to task for each one of their idiocies nor do I feel inclined to argue with all the crap spouted by all and sundry. I've found that if I try to take most anything Bob writes seriously I go down an absurd rabbit hole trying to sort it out with him. One post comes to mind of late - his Am Thinker copy and paste on ACA and a Lou Gehrig's disease case. It was wrong on so many counts but I generally find that the case with Bob and anything out of AM Thinker. That post stood out because I was recently hired by a lawyer with Lou Gehrig's disease to do a final farewell before leaving to Switzerland where he can take matters into his own hands.
DeleteI pick and choose what to deal with at my whim. In this case my whim is to query the usefulness of posting T&A shots interspersed with human suffering material in headline posts at 2164th's blog.
You need to loosen up, bubba. It's just a blog. :)
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteAnd I pick and choose what I want to post.
DeleteIf you do not enjoy it, pick something else.
If you want to discuss the harvesting of body parts, I'm happy to discuss that, Ukraine, I''m all in. Russia, China, Iran, have at it.
You want to discuss my editorial decisions, I'll discuss those, too.
I am following in the footsteps of Rupert Murdock, the most successful publisher of the last and current centuries.
He blazed the trail, he has lots of readers and influences lots of opinions.
That is the reality. I will not deny it or even try to swim against the tide, because I do not find it objectionable.
In the small town from whence I hailed, there was a pretty danged good small-town newspaper. The old man covered the waterfront pretty well. He, also, interspersed little off-color jokes all through the thing. The women, and the church-people tut, tut, tutted, and read the damned thing word-for-word, start to finish. :)
DeleteA hell of a publisher, he was.
Land management in the Western United States, I have had two or three posts on that subject.
DeleteBorder security, one or two posts.
Ukraine, a couple in the last 25 have touched on that.
Each thread devolves into accusations of anti-Antisemitism and family matters.
Posters calling the threads 'dumb'.
It is not just my threads. Yesterday the first contributor called the denounced the topic.
Ever thread that Ms T posted, degenerated quickly into rants about Israel and Judaism, it drove her off.
I won't be run off.
Deuce can close the blog down, or cut me off, but if he doesn't I'm in for the duration.
Contribute or leave, I do not have any control over that.
You decide what you want to do.
But I will do what I want to do, too.
It is just a blog, that's fer sure. I have found it a decent place at times to argue and discuss. Of late there are primarily two people rattling about, oh, and bob. Those pictures certainly are pulling in the punters...
DeleteYesterday the first contributor ... denounced the topic.
Delete
DeleteThere it is, stay or leave, read or not
Contribute or not.
Those are your decisions.
I counter punch, attack me and I will respond.
Call for shooting Arizonians and feeding the meat to the poor, I will not laugh it off.
Call for shooting Israeli and feeding the meat to the poor, I will not laugh it off, either.
But no one here has ever done THAT, have they?
DeleteGenocide, human butchery or cannibalism are not subjects of mirth.
DeleteOh, and I am a firm believer in LONG story arcs.
The 'Long War' is doctrine, now.
Jack wrote:
Delete"Genocide, human butchery or cannibalism are not subjects of mirth."
Not subjects for mirth in your view but subjects for sex. You go girl!
DeleteThat's right, Ash.
Sex is life. What better way to fight barbarism, than by celebrating life?
DeleteShould we wallow in despair, and shout 'Woe is me', or stand up to the brutality and answer it with beauty?
your hypocrisy is showing.
Delete
DeleteWhich end of the spectrum should we emphasize?
Which do we want to win?
I stand for beauty, with life and liberty, so do those women.
They illustrate what is good, what is right, what is worth fighting for.
DeleteIf you believe that it is hypocrisy, maybe you should join 'Occupation is Hate' and Farmer Bob.
Click on the icon of 'Occupation is Apartheid', it'll take you to their blog.
DeleteHave a great day, I have to be going, now.
Stay or leave, that decision is yours, and yours alone, to make.
The hypocrisy lies in your damnation of mirth with respect to those topics and your embrace of sex with respect to the same topics.
DeleteIt is also ironic that you and rufus condemn me for not taking to task Doug, Bob, WiO et al as justification for your actions. Ironic because we have condemn WiO for using the same argument in defence of Israel.
Of course it is my decision to post or not post, read or not read. It is impressive you figured that out all on your own.
Delete"Condemn?"
DeleteWould you care to point out, exactly, where I "condemned" you?
sorry, pardon the hyperbole - I was referring to your comment on my 'tasto-meter' not pinging on their comments regarding you sucking Obamas cock.
DeleteI don't see any sex going on in any thteads so far. I see beautiful bodies, but no sex Ash.
ReplyDeleteI've primarily referred to it as T&A. Call it what you will but I, personally, don't care for arousal to be associated with death, organ harvesting, murder and mayhem.
DeletePersonally, If I were having such a problem, I would probably just quit reading for awhile, and look at the pictures. Gotta be better for the soul. :)
DeleteSomething tells me that Jack is building a "Long Arc" with the extreme sides of subject matter and the pics he uses to compile a post.
DeleteIt'll be interesting to see the results that transpire.
Like, look above Dougman. We've got a "Beautiful body" in a sexualized nurses outfit with her ass hanging out in a thong (yummy!) paired with the headline in bold type:
Delete"Palestinians accuse the Israeli army of selling the organs of its victims"
Rufus, there are plenty of places on the intertubes to look a pictures and I've never associated this place as being one of those. If there were whole posts dedicated to lovely pictures of women that'd be one thing. What I find...distasteful, is plowing through an article on, for example todays, illicit organ harvesting for profit, peppered with the odd picture of sexualized nurses (presumably related to the post because of their medical role). Do a post on girls in short skirts and no panties, or camel toes, or whatever - I don't care and I probably wouldn't say much but pair images of death with sexually arousing shots and I'll probably suggest you were demented, maybe even into necrophilia or rape.
Delete" into necrophilia or rape"
DeleteHoly Shit, Batman !!!
:) :) :) Really?
if sex and death get you aroused....
Delete:) Man, you need to get out more.
DeleteIt's a blog, Ash. We fuck around here for Entertainment. We're not going to jump on our little white horsies, and go out an fix all these wrongs that we observe, and write about. We don't get mad and kick the dog, and slap the wife around. It's a freakin' blog.
We can tut-tut about the (fill in your favorite bugaboo, here) and still enjoy a picture of a fine, female ass.
Have a drink, go sailing, play some golf, get laid, sell a deal.
Go watch the Janet Yellen press conference on CNBC. She ain't no shrinking flower.
:) I like looking at pictures of beautiful women in kinky outfits but I don't like pairing gross things with those images - you know; organ harvesting, murder, death and pics of dead people. If you get your kicks out of sexual images paired with dead people then it brings us back to
Deleteta dum
necrophilia.
:) Whatever.
DeleteIn the meantime, just think of them as "commercials."
I’m with you Ash. I don’t like it.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteAye, we are all legends in our own mind!
DeleteWednesday's I interview with the doc.
ReplyDeleteToday I asked about the cost.
$40,000 for 8 weeks of external beam radiation prostate cancer treatment, including EVERYTHING, the doc's fees, the machine and tech fees from the Catholic Hospital. Since I pay Supplemental you can reduce that to $32,000, TOTAL.
Jackratass was claiming I had filched $700,000 from the 'welfare' system.
I am 67 years of age, have paid into the system all my life, and I happen to one of the still minority of men that have prostate cancer.
$32,000.
Jackrat was off more than 20X.
Jackrat is as usual and expected FULL OF SHIT. Full of steamy loose smelly shit, that has infected what is loosely called a brain, but is really just a spiteful, slanderous, BS machine.
That $40,000 by the way also covers all the followups.
bob, whose thing has flipped out again
Forgot to say 'out'.
ReplyDeleteBob
I do not know why it flips me over to only having the choice of anon, but I think it has something to do with having three email addresses now.
DeleteBob
out out
I forgot to mention the doc's professional fee is $6,000, which is INCLUDED in the above figures.
DeleteBob
out out out
A brain is actually a Consciousness reducing and focusing mechanism.
DeleteSee: Hinduism and it's echoes down the ages and on into our time in Transpersonal Psychology.
In rat's case it works exceedingly well, all too well.
Bob
Had to get that in.
out out out out I promise
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Attention
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because we have many
patients who currently require kidney transplantation.
Look for an opportunity to sell your kidney for money to finance
We will buy your
kidney for € 800,000
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Ovaries :€300000
Bone marrows:€500000
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EMAIL; Doctormichaelapa007@gmail.com
Email;Clevelandclinicmanagement@gmail.com
Whatsapp: ask me
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