“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."

Wednesday, May 20, 2009

California Contitutionally Rebuffs Their Rulers and Masters. New York Times Calls for Constitutional Reform.

As goes California, so goes the nation? There may be lessons on health care as well.

Remember a couple of years ago when the EU masters and rulers were shocked and dismayed that the voters in France and Holland had the lack of political sophistication to accept the constitution beginning crammed down their throats? The statists went near hysterical in trying to comprehend the rejection and plotted to go around the voters. History is repeating itself in California.

The left is mobilizing to undo votes it does not like. No pictures of purple fingers here. You cannot get much further away from California than New York City and still be in the US, but the New York Times realizing the political impact of voter rejection of more and more taxes, jumps into the fray. Read it.


May 21, 2009
California, a Broke State, Reels as Voters Rebuff Leaders

Direct democracy has once again upended California — enough so that the state may finally consider another way by overhauling its Constitution for the first time in 130 years.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger returned home from a White House visit on Wednesday to find the state dangerously broke, his constituents defiant after a special election on Tuesday and calls for a constitutional convention — six months ago little more than a wonkish whisper — a cacophony.

As the notion of California as ungovernable grows stronger than ever, Mr. Schwarzenegger, a Republican, has expressed support for a convention to address such things as the state’s arcane budget requirements and its process for proliferate ballot initiatives, both of which necessitated Tuesday’s statewide vote on budget matters approved months ago by state lawmakers.

“There could not be more of a tipping point,” said Jim Wunderman, chief executive of the Bay Area Council, a business group that moved forward on Wednesday with plans to push for a constitutional convention. “We think the interest is going to grow by orders of magnitude now.”

More immediately, Mr. Schwarzenegger met with legislative leaders to begin the painful process of slashing state spending after voters rejected five ballot measures intended to balance the budget through a combination of tax increases, borrowing and the reallocation of state money.

The only ballot measure to succeed was one that prevented lawmakers and constitutional officers from getting raises in times of fiscal distress, a sort of chin-out electoral scowl by voters, who will now probably see their health care systems, schools and other services erode. On Friday, the state controller, John Chiang, and the treasurer, Bill Lockyer, are expected to appear before lawmakers and warn them that the state is nearly unable to pay its bills.

With the special-election results in, the California Citizens Compensation Commission moved Wednesday to impose an 18 percent pay cut for all elected officials, while the Bay Area Council began its campaign to rewrite the Constitution to address some of its more crippling rules and give more financial control to localities. The constitutional effort was immediately embraced by the San Francisco mayor, Gavin Newsom, a Democrat who is a 2010 candidate for governor, and some political experts suggested that the movement might be perfectly timed.

“The majority of Californians say the state is headed in the wrong direction,” said Mark Baldassare, the president of the Public Policy Institute of California, a nonpartisan polling organization. In a March poll of 2,004 residents, two-thirds said the Constitution should be altered, Mr. Baldassare said.

“I think that we could be at a crossroads here, “ Mr. Baldassare said. “People in California don’t feel they have the government we need in the 21st century.”

The last time California held a constitutional convention was in 1878-79 when the state’s founding constitution was rewritten, though a state commission made revisions to the document in the 1960s and 1970s. Such a convention would have to be done, of course, through a ballot initiative.

In the meantime, the unpleasant exercise of renegotiating the state budget — the third time this fiscal year — must be done by June 30 in order to realize the full value of any cuts.

Facing a $21.3 billion budget deficit, Mr. Schwarzenegger is requesting a $6 billion loan from the federal government, and has proposed a variety of politically unpalatable cuts, including commuting prisoners’ sentences, taking away health insurance from some poor children, reducing aid to community colleges and eliminating a large chunk of financing for shelters that serve children and women who have been abused.

The Legislature, controlled by Democrats, will hold public hearings on the governor’s proposals next week and come up with its own suggestions, which would probably affect fewer vulnerable residents and avoid jeopardizing the loss of federal education and health care money that requires a state match.

While California has suffered the same fate as much of the nation — high unemployment, large numbers of foreclosures, general economic sluggishness — its budget woes are greatly exacerbated by its odd and in many ways outmoded way of doing business.

The ballot initiative process — in which legislators or independent groups ask voters to mandate how the state’s money is spent or not spent — has become at times an exercise in fiscal self defeat, with voters moving to earmark money for one special program one year, only to contemplate undoing their own will a few elections later.

The state’s legislative districts are highly gerrymandered, leaving the Legislature influenced by the political fringe of both parties and unable to agree on practical budget matters or much else. State senators represent roughly a million people each, larger than most Congressional districts, leaving them out of touch with local needs. Further, the state is one of only three requiring a two-thirds majority vote in the Legislature on taxes and budgets, which leads to partisan fighting and long delays.

All of this came into play in the special election on Tuesday.

“There was a both-sides-against-the-middle aspect,” said Bruce Cain, a political scientist at the University of California, Berkeley, “reflecting the wide differences between Democrats and Republicans on the budget; a general disgust with the Legislature and the governor; ballot fatigue; and weariness with voting for yet another budgetary patch.”

California passed a budget in February contingent on the ballot measures’ winning approval. Even before Tuesday’s vote, the state was $5.8 billion newly in the hole because revenues had continued to plummet over the spring. Institutions that rely on state money have already begun to adjust in ways large and small.

The Los Angeles Superior Court will now close once a month. Dental care at Feather River Hospital in Paradise, near Sacramento, will cease on July 1. The Santa Clarita fireworks show this Fourth of July will be 10 minutes shorter.

“The state funds 94 domestic violence emergency shelter programs,” said Nicole Shellcroft, a former director of a targeted shelter in the Antelope Valley. “With this cut, the majority of them disappear.”

When he took office six years ago, Mr. Schwarzenegger promised to bring badly needed systemic change to state government. Though he has not delivered on that promise, he has laid more groundwork for it than his predecessors. He persuaded voters to let an independent panel redraw the legislative districts, which may well erode the partisan chokehold many candidates have had on parts of the state.

Also, if his ballot proposal to conduct open primaries in the state prevails at the polls next month, political change in Sacramento could be profound.


  1. Stites, a Los Angeles County sheriff’s sergeant was one of three new board members appointed to the panel by Schwarzenegger after the board’s unsuccessful attempt to cut lawmakers pay and last meeting. Schwarzenegger, who declines a state salary, declared his support for the salary reductions.

    This morning in Burbank, the board acted on his wishes in a bigger way than anticipated. But the pay cuts the panel approved won’t start to go into effect until December, 2010, because the California constitution prohibits state officer salaries from being cut in the middle of their terms.

    The cut will drop the annual pay of a legislator from $116,208 to $95,291.
    Official's Pay

  2. I think that I read only 17% of the eligible voters in CA particpated in the Special Election.

    Have to check on that.

  3. The SF Chronicle reports

    While turnout for the election stands at about 23 percent, that number is likely to rise to about 30 percent when all the ballots are tallied, said Mark DiCamillo, director of the Field Poll.

  4. Only 17% of the eligible voters in California pay taxes?

    Just askin'.

  5. If that is true, a cad might say, 'tis better to on the other side.'

  6. Folks voted for the Governator, then rejected all of the propositions he requested they vote for.

    With both ends of the candle burning the middle. Both the conservatives amd the labor unions are claiming victory in stopping the Governator's proposals.

    To bad a minority of the electorate decide to stop the CA rescue package, or even more Californios would be moving East. Soaking up some of that excess housing stock we have available.

  7. I stick to my orignal position, Rat.

    The human race is ungoveranable in a sane sense.

    Therefore, we might as well go swimming.

    Full suits, or briefs, or skinny?

  8. Even if the Federals send money to CA, bob, you will still be taxed with Representation.

    Since the Federals send, per capita, more money to Sarah Palin's Alaska than to any other State, figured you'd support that kind of thing. Federals supporting the States, financially.

    For every dollar that the taxpayers of CA send to DC, they recieve 79 cents back in Federal Spending.

    Idaho, bob, gets $1.28 for evey dollar it sends to DC. Alaska, the Queen of the Welfare States gets $1.89 for every dollar it sends to DC, in taxpayer contributions.

    CA taxpayers has been subsidizing Idaho and Alaska, for at least the past 20 years. Have the Californios been taxed without Representation for all those years?

    Your continued whining without factual content has really become comical.

  9. Everyone is going to feel the pain of balancing the city pension fund, from higher taxes to fees to union members giving up benefits and paying more for less.


    Firefighters and police are being asked to make concessions in the form of either increasing contributions by 15 percent or decreasing benefits or some sort of combination to the tune of $15 million every year. It all depends on final approval by the unions and the City Council.


    The city is examining several concepts when it comes to coming up with its contribution of $15 million every year.

    # Six-cent property tax increase/per $1000 of valuation instituted in January 2011. This would raise the $15 million needed and it could be done right away by the mayor and City Council.
    Omaha Pension Fix

  10. This comment has been removed by the author.

  11. Doug must be off standing his watch with the beautiful Sonia... keeping the East Pacific safe from Somali pirates.

    You're doing a hell of a job, Brownie!

    Ehhh. Make that Douggie.


    How else to explain the peace and quiet?

  12. Thanks for the krav maga link, linear. I'll ask if he's heard of it.

    SOP in a mugging - they're still unfortunately common here and we all know the drill - is to just hand over what ya got. (And never to carry that which you can't bear to part with.) Last night it was two guys with knives, one either seriously disturbed or high or both. Odds are, they weren't working alone, but had at least two more with them within short running distance. That's THEIR SOP. Picking a fight is a serious risk.

    There are other situations in which aggressive self defense is more clearly called for, because it's not simply your wallet and cell phone that you are in the process of losing. That's a judgment call. As so many things are.

  13. FBI Arrests Four Men in Bomb, Missile Plot.


    A shorty story, one that in less fearful days would have been crdited to entrapment, but now, who knows.

    Wonder how much the FBI paid the informant that "... help steer the plot for nearly a year ..."

    The alleddged terrorists not having any capacity to be terrorists, without Federal guidance and assisstance.

    Investigators orchestrated a shopping trip the men took to Connecticut to obtain what they thought were a surface-to-air missile system and explosives to be used in an improvised explosive device, according to the FBI affidavit.

    So by admission in the afficaviy, the Federals guided the conspriacy and orchestrated the attempt to buy munitions.

    If it was a drug case, the defendents could easily walk, the entire conspiracy being orchestrated by the Federals and the informant.

  14. This was crystal clear in a Zogby Interactive survey of 4,340 U.S. adults, conducted for the Doha Debates from April 1 to April 4, 2009.
    Here are a few of the questions in the survey that found significant differences between self-identified voters for Obama and Republican Sen. John McCain.

    --Agreement that: U.S. interests and Israel's interests are identical.
    McCain voters, 78%; Obama voters, 28%.

    --Do you believe U.S. support for Israel strengthens or weakens U.S. security?
    McCain voters: 72% strengthens, 13% weakens. Obama voters: 21% strengthens, 50% weakens.

    --Agreement that: If Israel continues to build settlements in the West Bank, the U.S. should get tough on Israel and attempt to stop the expansion of settlements.
    McCain voters, 26%; Obama voters, 71%.

    --Which of the following best describes how the Obama administration should pursue peace in the Middle East?
    Lean toward Israel: McCain voters, 60%; Obama voters, 9%.
    Lean toward Palestine: McCain voters, 12%; Obama voters, 6%.
    Steer a middle course: McCain voters, 22%; Obama voters, 72%.

    Why do these partisan differences exist on an issue that for many years produced a much more uniform set of opinions
    There are three key factors here.

    Forbes being a viable source for the past 30 years.

    Exit polling showed Jews favoring Obama over McCain, 78% to 21%. Obama worked very hard to assure them of his support for Israel, and he succeeded with Jewish voters.

    However, concern about Israel is only one of the many issues that Americans Jews care about. Most back Obama's liberal policies on the economy, social issues such as reproductive and gay rights and other questions of equality and fairness

  15. ha! Rat, that's why California is broke--they've been sending all their money to ol' bob.

    You may be right about the figures, for all I know, but, I personally, can't recall ever seeing any of the money, never got a check in the mail, nor can I think of any project it's funded around here, other than maybe the endless, and I mean endless, studies about the dams.

    I just note in passing, California is broke, Idaho, not yet.

    This is a good thing. The money is safe with us.

    I think we still have a surplus, some money in the bank.

    Ruff n tumble

    Send us some mo money, please.

    You're in good hands, in Ideeehoo.

  16. entrapment?? pot meet kettle. preztal logic man at it again. so these terrorists needed to be caught red handed with the "real" stuff in order for it to count. can you refresh our memory on your true stance (none of this not meaning what you say junk that you like to do at times) on waterboarding in order to obtain vital information for securing our nation?
    Let me guess, this offends your "ideas of equality and fairness" that you want to use as a negative against the jews that voted for obam? pretzal man.

  17. bob, they planted those tree, on your homestead, with the Californios money.

    The Federal Farm Bureau, where the pretty secretaries helped you get free farming advise, as to fertilizers, plant rotation and such.

    You've lived the life of a welfare recipient for so long, there in Idaho, that it seems the normal state of affairs.

  18. California just must, I've said this for years, just MUST, stop this sending of their money to Ideehooo, or they are going to go broke!

    I've said this for years, and I stick with my position.

  19. Living the life of a welfare recipient here in Ideehooo!

    O Christ where do you come up this shit?

    I'd think of voting Libertarian if it weren't for the likes of folks like you, that don't have a grip.


    Good Ch-rist!

    I paid over 15K last year in real estate taxes alone. That's just for starters. Don't count my contribution to Unca Sam.

    O Christ Rat, you come up with some bizarre shit.

    I, like most of the others, am a net loser all these years, in my relations with the governments.

    Local, state, and Federal.

  20. All I got out of it was some little tree planting along a seasonal creek.

    And, I tried to warn them off, when planating the trees, about the moles.

    But, they insisted, so the little project went ahead.

    I plan on retiring, and eating the fruits of those trees, except they ain't fruit bearing trees.

    So, I quess, I must go hungry.

    My last look at the trees, two days ago, seemed to indicate they were doing a little better than I had previously thought. But, the summer is long, the moles always hungry.

    I think the whole thing may have been worth it however, as I did get a good jolly talk with some of those young fellows planting the trees. They were nice young fellows. We joked around, laughed about a lot of stuff.

  21. Well, slim, the pretzel logic is what got Mr John Z. DeLorean aquitted in a cocaine distribution case.

    In the summer of 1982, DeLorean received a phone call from James Hoffman, a former drug smuggler turned FBI informant. DeLorean met with Hoffman on July 11, 1982, to discuss an investment opportunity to help save his company. Over the course of the next three months, Hoffman slowly explained his intricate plan involving cocaine smugglers, a bank for laundering money, and the specifics of how much money DeLorean would be required to front to procure the deal. DeLorean went along with these discussions, planning to trade DMC stock for the seed money for any deal that would benefit the company, but leaving the drug-smuggler investors with stock in a company completely controlled by the British government.
    DeLorean successfully defended himself with a procedural defense, arguing that the police had asked him to supply the money to buy the cocaine. His attorney stated in Time (March 19, 1984), "This [was] a fictitious crime. Without the government, there would be no crime." The DeLorean defense team did not call any witnesses. DeLorean was found not guilty due to entrapment on August 16, 1984
    . (wiki)

    According to the WSJ story, slim, there are certainly simularities to the cases. The Federal informant guides the defendents in their conspiracy, then provides them the opportunity to fulfill it.

    A simple replacement of three words, and the legal defense is clear.

    ... successfully defended (themselves) with a procedural defense, arguing that the police had asked (them) to supply the money to buy the (munitions),.

    Again, slim, it is not what I think that matters. What matters is the law. All I said was that if it was a drug case, they could walk, as evidenced by the DeLorean precedent.

    Their defense being that with out Federal guidance and assistance there'd have been no laws broken.

    As DeLorean successfully did.

    That is the "Entrapment Standard"

  22. Again, slim, it is not what I think that matters.--

    Thanks to the Good Living Light.

    Let us all get on our knees and pray, say hosannas, and give thanks unto the Giver of All Good Things.

    And, Bless Israel in passing.

    Long Live Israel!

  23. The real reason I support Israel, the bedrock, foundational reason is simple:

    They treat the women right.

  24. The $15,000 in Real Estate taxes do not go to the Federals, bob.

    That is the State of Idaho and it's Counties revenue.

    The State also recieves $1.29 in Federal funds for every dollar it's taxpayers pay in Federal taxes.
    That's welfare, bob, getting more than you give. Without Federal assistance your $15,000 would have to raise, to cover the costs of the Federal welfare subsidies the Federals provide Idaho.
    Alaska and Arizona, too.
    We're all in net recipreient status. Getting more than we give, in Federal benevolence.

    New Jersey gets it the worst, recieving only 55 cents back, for every dollar it sends to DC.

    There is nothing "kookie" about tracking where the money goes, bob.

    That always is the best investigative procedure, to follow the money.

    It flows from the New York and California, to fly over country, if you take the time to review the map. The leading liberal States getting short shrift from the Federals, financially.

    Oximoronic, but the evident reality if you follow the money.

  25. So, I quess, I must go hungry.

    Eat the moles.

  26. As to waterboarding, it is illegal.
    It is torture.

    That is the Republican Party standard, the Democratic Party standard and the standard now set by the Federal government.

    I think there should be public hearings into the claims that waterboarding is essential to the security of the United States.

    If the results of those hearing result in legislation to legalize the use of waterboarding, under some type of "check and balances" supervision. I'd quite likely support that legislation. Without any such change in the law, I support obeying the law.

  27. To encourage law breaking is promoting lawlessness, which leads to anarchy.

    Anarchy in the name of security is a vice.

  28. While not denying some of your numbers, I'll be checking my own personal mailbox later today, hoping against hope to receive a check from unca sam, via California.

    Just because it hasn't ever happened, don't mean it won't.

    You and me, Rat, we be payin' for California's bankruptcy for years.

    More seriously, we all pay to D.C. We all know that. Those states that get a little more back than they pay in--should we curse them, or bless them as being financially astute?

    Or what?

    The only thing I can think of around here in the last many years that I can actually point to is the improvement of Highway 95 from Lewiston up past Genesee, Idaho. I'm sure there was some Federal money in that.

    That portion of 95 had earned the term 'the goat trail'--it is better now.

    But how to track every last dollar of it, I don't know. I have paid gas taxes all my life, as have you.

  29. There is a true battle going on out there, even as we speak.

    The tree roots are trying to dig deep, embracing momma earth.

    The moles however have a different point of view.

    Bob is almost neutral in this battle, tending a little to the side of the trees.

  30. Krav Maga evolved where success in meeting threats means survival. I respect that you understand the difference between that and just picking a fight. I think that ingredient is a fundamental of the training. I wish I'd heard of it 40 years ago, but rest assured my children have been informed.

  31. Krav Maga is an effective empty hand set of techniques, to be sure. When I was active in that industry, five or six years ago, they had the beginnings of a continent wide instructor network underway.

  32. My daughter gave me some nice fruit trees for Fathers' Day. They were planted and watered, their thirst was slaked during a year when the well was frequently dry. Fish and other fertilizer were carefully applied to sustain and nurture them.

    Then, one day while watering, I noticed one of them looked wilted. As I grasped a twig to look closer, the whole tree just seemed to rise out of the ground, its roots were eaten off. In a week that nice little orchard was dead.

    I hate moles, gophers, ground squirrels and [most] rats.

  33. Never heard of it. Martial arts was never a part of my life. I did though gain a real respect for it. One of my friends from high school, a girl I liked and who had a hard life, now deceased, was into martial arts. I remember her, practically the last time I saw her, swinging around, this way and that, telling me, bob, do it this way and that.

    I never caught on, but sure respect those that have.

    I think of that girl now, and hope to meet her in the great beyond, if there be such a thing, where we are all true identities, as Kate Porter says we are. She was so nice. Her brother was a doctor, and died of the same rare and odd disease as my friend.

    She had a heart/lung transplant, and was doing ok, and then she collapsed one day working in her garden, of some kind of a reaction to pollen, they thought.

    I don't know what life is about, but I have hope.

    The idea of true identities makes a lot of sense to me.

  34. This comment has been removed by the author.

  35. Spent the summer of '85, I guess, in Camp Verde, flood irrigating our new practice polo field, then boppin' the moles as they popped out of their flooded burrows.

    Early on, right after the field had been lazer leveled, the berms were not as substantial as they'd subsequently become. The moles had infiltrated the berm on the east, downstream, end of the field. Lost the whole berm, across about 20 feet or so.

    Standing there morose as the water flowed by, on it's way back to the Verde river.
    Took an extra special pleasure in boppin' 'em, after that.

  36. A really odd thing (so it seemed to me) happened out on the farm.

    There is a little part of it that grandpa tried to farm, and it failed there.

    So it was just left, a dry clay type little hilltop.

    But with a little timber nearby.

    It sat there for time out of mind, and then, one year, BINGO, all these little trees sprang up, all at once.

    No mole problem there.

    Doing great now, maybe a couple of acres of trees, on what was a clay hilltop.

    I read an article one time many years ago about trees in the northeast of our country, and how the forests evolve and change, and go through long, long cycles.

    I quess that is what happened here.

    There is alway seed in the ground, just waiting until the ph or whatever is right, the time is right, then they BLOOM.

    Momma Nature has her own ways.

  37. A note on language, distortions, and political correctness.

    Drafting the comment at Thu May 21, 12:37:00 PM EDT, I did a quick check on "existential" via Google. I'd first written "...where meeting threats is existential", as in the statement: Israel faces an existential threat from Iranian nuclear bombs.

    I was treated to this and similar new age crap:

    ...existentialism - A philosophical movement embracing the view that the suffering individual must create meaning in an unknowable, chaotic, and seemingly empty universe.

    I changed my draft.

  38. Existentialism, heh.

    heh, I went through that stuff, I admit. Read Sartre, at least some of it, alot of it ( he liked young girls, like my daughter) and some of the others.

    Then, not being able to live in despair,(you can't, and live) and thinking, and more importantly feeling, it to be wrong, I rose from my pool of despond , got straight, or straighter, read my guts out of the really good stuff, and went on.

    Then I began to see things a little more arightly, like we are all beginners here, my spirit, which I really didn't know was me, exerted itself, and I began to know, or feel, even against some evidence, its a learning experience and God, who is eternally lonely, has a rage for us to love him, as he does us.

    Bottom line: you can't LIVE in despair.

    Life is wheat ripening in the wind, the stars at night, the goddamed ever debt, a good woman you never thought you would meet, who sticks with you, unknown before even your birth, a little knowledge of fly fishing, a shotgun, a love of grouse hunting, and, with a sigh of relieve, a little time to read.

    I thank the University of Washington for introducing me to Theodore Roethke.

    It's not all bad, over there on the coast.

  39. Life is wheat ripening in the wind, the stars at night, the goddamed ever debt, a good woman you never thought you would meet, who sticks with you, unknown before even your birth, a little knowledge of fly fishing, a shotgun, a love of grouse hunting, and, with a sigh of relieve, a little time to read.

    I'd add the bar fights to that list, bob.

  40. rat, you must have a perfect driving record then. now that's what i call impressive.

    mixed martial arts is the big thing now, see UFC.

  41. Are Doug and Sonia lost at sea?\nay, they're just embracing under the coconut tree

    Bless them.

    I met my wife on a trip to Hawaii, me going to see my dad, in his little house, she on Happy Holidays Tours, or some such.

    747. Bless 'em, 747.

    By God, we started talking and it never quits.

  42. I, actually, just between you and me, might wish she'd just shut up once in a while, but I do love her dearly.

    I could never say this to her, it's like a brick off my brain.


  43. In all the "existential" budget crisis debate I'm hearing out of California, I have yet to hear one mention of maybe cutting back on illegal immigration expenses. Priorities, I guess.

    Regarding waterboarding, there was an interesting exchange between Rep. Dan Lungren (R Ca.) and Eric Holder recently:

    [Rep. Dan] Lungren [(R., CA) and the state's former attorney general] then switched gears to a line of questioning aimed at clarifying the Obama Justice Department’s definition of torture. In one of the rare times he gave a straight answer, Holder stated at the hearing that in his view waterboarding is torture. Lundgren asked if it was the Justice Department’s position that Navy SEALS subjected to waterboarding as part of their training were being tortured.

    Holder: No, it’s not torture in the legal sense because you’re not doing it with the intention of harming these people physically or mentally, all we’re trying to do is train them —

    Lungren: So it’s the question of intent?

    Holder: Intent is a huge part.

    Lungren: So if the intent was to solicit information but not do permanent harm, how is that torture?

    Holder: Well, it… uh… it… one has to look at... ah…

    If the strict interpretation of words is critical to understanding, then so be it.

  44. Have not gotten a traffic ticket, in years, not even pulled over, maybe 20 years, now.

    Try hard to stay within the law.
    It is what seperates US from the other countries of the whirled, it makes US unique. I swore to defend it, against enemies, foreign and domestic. Still take that oath pretty seriously.

  45. Being kind of a wolve hound, at heart.

    There being wolves and sheep in great abundence amongst the people of the whirled, luckily there are those of us that behave as wolve hounds, when duty calls.

  46. chachapoya--

    I think, actually I know, there were some California court decisions a cople of decades back saying, in basic, it does matter that your momma or pappa are here without permission, as a social policy, educate them. (IF YOU CAN)

    I think this is insane, this policy.

    For many reasons to long to list.

    In short, they should go back to their mother country, and, if they want to be here, and if, a big IF, we want to have them, then go through the proper legislatively mandated procedures.

  47. Federal Courts, bob, not CA State.

    The Supremes, the majority of which were nominated by Republican Presidents.

    Equal protection of and adherence to the law extends to all residents of the US, not just the ones here legally. The criminality of their residence status does not allow them to violate other US laws with impunity.

    If the children are in the US, the law requires they be educated, residency permits not withstanding.

  48. heh, I got pulled over late two nights, for nothing, was mailing a payment at the post office.

    Good cop, just made an excuse to pull me over. Said I had been a little out of the lane, or something.

    Nice fellow though, and we had a bit of a problem finding (my wife's car) the insurance certificate.

    Once found, it was seen to be out of date by, get this, one hour, which we both laughed about, and bob is free, telling him I know we have paid the insurance, but the wife hadn't put the certificate in the car.

    On checking yesterday, this was proven to be the truth. The certificate is now in the car.

    All is well here now, temporarily

  49. I'm not sure you are right about that Rat, but you may be.

    I remember dad saying long ago what a damned stupid court decision it was to say we had to 'educate' people who were here illegally.

    You may be right, but it may have started with a California court decision.

    Anyway, we both agree it's idiotic.

  50. Not really, if they end up staying here, which they will under either the Democratic or Republican immigration plans, it is idiotic to have them be totally uneducated and unacclimated to US society and living here, semi-permanently.

    Schools capable of being homoginizing melting pots of enlightenment and education, if managed correctly.

    These growing children, some of which reach adulthood without a memory of Mexico, I've had personal experience with such folk.
    They are not Mexicans, but for the papers, and they are US, but for their lack of papers.

    They've got no where to go, but even if they were sent to Mexico, forcibily, we'd want 'em educated.

    It is in the National Security interests of the US to provide those we expell from US, in that scenario, at least the benevolent opportunity that a US education could provide them. Creating allies of opportunity, for life, instead of ignorant adveseries, just south of Nogales.

  51. Standard COIN SOP, bob.

    Got to assimulate the targeted population into accepting the cultural values of the dominant culture.

    While doing so in the US will also warp the existing domestic culture, in the effort. As it does everywhere the COIN SOP is employeed.

  52. It is Federal, bob, and one of the cases came from AZ, I'm pretty sure. There have been a series of precedents, to be sure. The Law is clear.

    We educate all resident children.

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  54. That's why building schools in Iraq was touted as success, for so long, bob.

    Same rational demands educating all the residents of the United States.

    Education in US public schools creates a homoginized American.
    No matter which country in America they come to reside in, after leaving school.

  55. Well. Let my try that again.

    Speaking of (pleasant) survival: My daughter is out on the AT (*not* the AP, as we're on that here down south) for two weeks with a few friends.

    Envious? Oh. Hell. Yes.

  56. So are you saying then, that you want or accept people that wander into our country?

    And that Rat and bob should pay for them?

    I agree many may be very nice, etc.

    Doug has a different view.

    Citing statistics of the dead in gang wars.

    Where the browns are killing the blacks.

    If you want them, then you pay for them. And keep them in your neighborhood.

    I opt out.

    And you adhere to the view that the Consitution actually means something?

    B.S. on you.

    I side with Doug.

  57. Trish--g'day to you.

    If you haven't read "Ship of Fools", do it.

    It's a long tough slog, but worth it. No chapters, just 'vignettes'.

    On and on, all this pawing over one another.

    The dialogue there is much like the dialogue right here.

    Trish, some of it is so sorrowfull it is tough reading.

    But it puts things into perspective.

    She is a beautiful writer.

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  59. And speaking of one's true identity:

    I used to look up at the moon when I was little and wonder it what it was like to look up at the moon for one who had been there.

    Many years later there was a fine (title unremembered) documentary made about those who were. The question universally asked of the astronauts was, "How did the mission change you?" And the same answer kept coming back: It didn't. They became more like themselves.

    The more I think about it, the more I think that's what properly occurs with all of us. We become more ourselves. Whoever that may be.

  60. Of course, in an islamic land, such a writer as Katheline Anne Porter would have been stoned to death, in an islamic pit.

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  62. I mis spoke, an error in a big huff, I meant to say--

    We become more ourselves.--


    and the dove always flies through the darkness, on the wings of the dove, and the darkeness always recedes, ever receding, the darkness being the mystery of forever, just as the Jews said long ago, as the Lord would show his backsides only, as he passed by the man in the cave.