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Sunday, August 31, 2014

The response to the Russian assault on Ukraine lies largely with the Europeans - This week will tell

Putin escallates the aggression:


The European View of the Russian Invasion:



The Options:




Last Updated Aug 30, 2014 11:27 AM EDT
KIEV, Ukraine -CBS- Ukrainian forces say one of their fighter jets has been shot down by a Russian missile in combat against Russia-backed separatists in easternUkraine.
The development comes as the European Union was poised Saturday to impose new sanctions against Russia and Ukraine's president warned the conflict with Moscow threatens peace and stability for Europe as a whole.A brief statement posted Saturday on the Facebook page for the so-called operation against separatists said the Su-25 was hit on Friday, and that the pilot ejected and was uninjured. The statement said the plane was hit by a missile from a Russian launcher, but did not give more detail.
Petro Poroshenko said before a summit of the EU's 28 leaders that a strong response was needed to the "military aggression and terror" facing his country.
"Thousands of the foreign troops and hundreds of the foreign tanks are now on the territory of Ukraine," Poroshenko told reporters in English. "There is a very high risk not only for peace and stability for Ukraine, but for the whole peace and stability of Europe."
On the ground, fighting continued. The office of the Donetsk mayor reported in a statement on Saturday that at least two people died in an artillery attack on one of Donetsk's neighborhoods. Shelling was reported elsewhere in the city, but there was no immediate word on casualties.





A burned trolleybus is seen near a Donetsk train station after shelling in Donetsk, Ukraine, Aug. 30, 2014.
A burned trolleybus is seen near a Donetsk train station after shelling in Donetsk, Ukraine, Aug. 30, 2014.
 AP PHOTO/MSTYSLAV CHERNOV

CBS News correspondent Elizabeth Palmer reports from London that pro-Russian rebels have opened a new front in Novoazovsk, near Ukraine's southern border with Russia.
The rebels showed reporters the Ukrainian border guards they'd captured and locked up in a garage. One of them said two of his fellows had been killed in an ambush.
NATO believes Ukrainian rebels are being given Russian military equipment. On Friday, shaky cell phone footage showed a tank suspected to be Russian in the area, and NATO satellite photographs show tanks as well as field artillery and troop carriers.
As for Russian President Vladimir Putin, he's sticking to the government line that if there are Russian soldiers in Ukraine, it's a mistake, Palmer reports.
The border in that area isn't well marked, he told a youth club Friday, and it's easy to get lost.

209 comments:

  1. They need some really good anti-tank weapons.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. “We are close to the point of no return,” Poroshenko told reporters in Brussels today during a summit of EU leaders. “Thousands of foreign troops and hundreds of foreign tanks are now on the territory of Ukraine.”

      EU Preps Russia Sanctions as Ukraine Warns of Invasion

      By Daryna Krasnolutska, Ewa Krukowska and Ian Wishart Aug 30, 2014 12:13 PM PT

      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-29/eu-to-mull-russia-sanctions-as-ukraine-s-army-pushed-back.html

      Delete
    2. Predator drones, Apache helicopters, A-10 Warthogs.

      Those are 'good' anti-tank weapons.

      Next on the list, another, better tank.
      That would be the M1 Abrams, the Egyptians are building those, in Cairo.

      Delete
    3. That would be the M1 Abrams, the Egyptians are building those, in Cairo.


      Please provide a link that proves that this is still current.

      Posting items out of date and time is your typical way to distort and lie about things.

      The additional M1A1 tanks will provide Egypt with a modern tank fleet, enhancing its capability to meet current and future threats. This will contribute to Egypt’s goal to update its military capability while further enhancing interoperability between Egypt, the U.S., and other allies. Egypt, which has co-produced the M1A1 Abrams tank, will have no difficulty absorbing the additional tanks.

      The prime contractors will be General Dynamics in Sterling Heights, Michigan, Honeywell International Incorporated in Phoenix, Arizona, and Allison Transmission Motors in Indianapolis, Indiana. There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale.
      This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.

      Delete
    4. General Dynamics Land Systems was awarded a $349m contract in January 2008, for the production of 125 M1A1 tank kits under the tenth increment of the the Egyptian co-production program. Deliveries began in April 2009 and will continue until July 2011.

      And nothing has changed in the last 3 years?

      Delete
    5. Pursuant to a congressional request, GAO provided information on the costs and benefits of the M1A1 tank coproduction program in Egypt, focusing on the: (1) rationale for the U.S.-Egyptian coproduction agreement; (2) cost of coproduction compared to the cost of supplying complete tanks; and (3) future plans for the Egyptian tank factory.
      GAO found that: (1) the Defense Security Assistance Agency's (DSAA) decision to support U.S.-Egyptian coproduction of the M1A1 tank instead of supplying them directly was made for political reasons, raised Egyptian expectations for further U.S. support, and increased program costs by $1.9 billion; (2) although Egyptian officials believe that the additional costs of coproduction are justifiable and will foster economic development, modernization of the Egyptian tank fleet, self-sufficiency in tank production, manufacture of light armored vehicles, expansion of arms exports, and maintenance of M60 tanks, many of these expected benefits have not been realized and could further increase program costs; and (3) in anticipation of the end of the program in 1998, Egypt is seeking to convert the M1A1 factory for civilian production of heavy equipment that could directly compete with U.S.-made heavy equipment.

      http://www.gao.gov/products/NSIAD-93-203

      Delete
    6. This article talks of 500 million being unlocked and given to Egypt...

      http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-27961933

      Pays for a few helicopters.. But no tanks...

      HMMMMMMMMM

      Delete
  2. FOX:

    NOVOAZOVSK, Ukraine – Pro-Russia separatists, relaxed and well-equipped, held firm control on Friday of the strategic coastal town of Novoazovsk, a day after Ukraine claimed tanks and armored vehicles had invaded from Russia.

    Associated Press reporters saw at least a half-dozen tanks in the town of about 12,000 people, bearing the flags of Novorossiya, the would-be state proclaimed by rebels in two eastern Ukraine regions. None of the tanks bore Russian markings, but ready-made meals seen near one of the tanks carried markings that they were issued by the Russian army.

    "There is no Russian equipment coming through here. We are fighting with the machinery the (Ukrainian forces) abandon. They just dump it and flee," said a rebel commander who identified himself only by the nom-de-guerre Frantsuz (The Frenchman).

    ReplyDelete
  3. Putin needs to be removed feet first.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Alas, Pooty's popularity in Russia seems to be soaring.

      Delete
  4. Idaho BobSun Aug 31, 04:56:00 AM EDT
    They need some really good anti-tank weapons.


    Weapons have to be used and the Ukrainian government and the EU and US know there is no point at this late date. The question now is how far will the Russians go.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Calling the man Pootie Poot was a stupid move.

    ReplyDelete
  6. "Deuce ☂Sat Aug 30, 09:19:00 PM EDT
    Ridiculous, comparing the German armies and the WWI US military and allies to the IDF and the Palestinians and Hamas. The IDF triumph, you have to be kidding."


    "allenSat Aug 30, 09:57:00 PM EDT
    Polls showed that most Americans had not interest in fighting Germany. That changed on 11 Dec 1941. While I am well aware that Messrs. Roosevelt and Churchill had other plans, the majority of Americans were opposed to US involvement in Europe."


    http://books.google.com/books?id=61WMf6XRVT8C&pg=PA213&lpg=PA213&dq=opinion+polls+war+with+germany&source=bl&ots=N7UUwEEViJ&sig=dYmZpLU4nbDt9N6kOdB7Fc4DGAQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1QMDVMSoFILHggSwlYKACQ&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=opinion%20polls%20war%20with%20germany&f=false
    HITLER ATTACKS PEARL HARBOR
    Why the United States Declared War on Germany
    Richard F. Hill (2003)

    Appendix: Public Opinion Polls
    George Gallup, ed., The Gallup Poll: Public Opinion, 1935-1971, vol. 1 (New York: Random House, 1972).

    July 1941. “If you were asked to vote today on the question of the United States entering the war now against Germany and Italy, how would you vote – to go into the war now or stay out of the war?”: “go in” – 21%, “stay out” – 79% (p. 290)

    November 7, 1941, poll taken October 9 – 14. “The Army has asked Congress to change the law that says drafted men cannot be sent to fight outside North or South America or this country’s possessions. Do you think Congress should give the Army the right to send drafted soldiers to any part of the world?”: yes – 42%, no – 53%, no opinion – 5% (p.304).

    November 22, 1941, poll taken November 7 – 12. “It has been suggested that Congress pass a resolution declaring that a state of war exists between the United States and Germany. Would you favor or oppose such a resolution at this time?”: favor – 26%, oppose – 63%, no opinion – 11% (p.307)

    Harwood Childs, ed. Public Opinion Quarterly, (Princeton, Princeton University Press, summer, 1942)
    October 4, 1941. “Should the United States Enter the War Now?”: “U.S. should enter war now” – 21% “U.S. should not enter war now” – 79% (percentages “of those expressing an opinion”) (p. 164, Gallup/AIPO [American Institute of Public Opinion]).


    ReplyDelete
  7. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/184533
    Americans' Support for Israel Strong, Poll Shows

    Most Americans say they sympathize “a lot” (34%) or “some” (32%) with Israel, after seven weeks of fighting in Gaza.
    8/28/2014,


    One day the U.S. will turn against Israel, but I doubt you or I will live long enough to see it happen. In the meantime, I will occasionally remind you of how goofy your opinions are.

    If you were to try a bit of objectivity from time to time, I might agree with you. That, however, is never going to happen; you have been too thoroughly infected.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If you would differentiate between your own opinions and those of others that you are reproducing, that would be good.

      Delete
    2. Every Jihadist action that beheads, rapes, loots, destroys, blows up anything?

      Demonstrates the islamic/arab mentality.

      Notice the thousands and thousands of moslems in the streets of NYC, LA, Chicago, Miami, Dearborn, Newark screaming against violent Jihad, against clot chopping, against sharia in America, against Hamas using human shields and executing dozens, against the kidnapping in Nigeria of hundreds of girls, against ISIS/ISIL, against Iran's hanging of gays..


      crickets... crickets.... crickets....

      :)

      Delete
  8. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/American_attitudes_toward_Israel.html
    U.S.-Israel Relations:
    American Public Opinion Toward Israel
    By Mitchell Bard

    (Updated August 2014)


    "Overall, support for Israel has been on the upswing since 1967. In the 1970s, the average level of support for Israel was 42%, in the 1980s, it was 46%, and, in the 1990s, 47%, including the record highs during the Gulf War. Since 2000, support for Israel is averaging 51%. In the 42 polls conducted during President Obama's term, support for Israel has soared to an average 54%, continuing an upward trend since the 1980s, while sympathy for the Palestinians has sunk to 11%, continuing a downward spiral that also began in the 1980s. On average, Israel is favored by more than 4 to 1."

    "Gallup also takes regular polls on world affairs. Overall favorable ratings of Israel in February 2014 were 72%, 6 percentage points higher than in 2013. Israel ranked behind Canada, Great Britain, Germany, Japan, France and India for both years. By contrast, in 2013, just 15% of Americans had a favorable opinion of the Palestinian Authority, while 77% had an unfavorable view. The PA in 2014 is rated just above Libya (19%), Pakistan (17%), Iraq (16%), Afghanistan (14%), Syria (13%), Iran (12%) and North Korea (11%) as the least popular countries. The same poll also found that only 35% of Americans have a mostly favorable view of Saudi Arabia."


    The fools just do not agree with you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The opinions freely expressed here on this blog are representative of general opinion on both sides. Who do you think pays for the polls?

      Delete
    2. Jeff Jacoby disagrees with you cut and paste, allen.
      He has a last name, and a reputation ...

      The folks at Pew, they disagree, tambien.

      The Jewish Virtual Library is not, shall we say, a viable source, on its own

      Delete
    3. The opinions freely expressed here on this blog


      Freely? I see you allow Rat to post the most despicable lies imaginable and I see how you deleted scores of my posts she you choose.

      "Freely"? Well once again your definition of a common word differs from the normal usage.

      Delete
    4. the majority of Americans do not agree with you Deuce, Rat, Rufus or Ash when it comes to Israel, Zionism, Jews or Judaism

      And the violent attacks across the planet and AMERICA against Jews have ripped the mask off of all this is just "anti-Israel"

      I noticed you didn't post a tread about the assassinated Rabbi in Miami just 3 weeks ago...

      You know the one whose Temple was spray painted with swastikas?

      Delete
    5. Who do you think pays for the polls?


      Depends.

      Qatar comes to mind

      Delete
  9. I have of late developed a favorable opinion of the officer corps of the Egyptian military.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Same folks that were running the show, there, under Mubarak
      Same folks the US has been cultivating, since Jimmy Carter was President.

      You truly are an idiot...

      Delete
  10. August 31, 2014

    Art and Habit

    By Glenn Fairman

    Upon viewing The Nun’s Story (1959) the other night on TCM, one is certain that such a film could never be made today. There are no half-dressed strumpets parading, no explosions, and no exaggerated drama that comes from the meanderings of a shallow soul testing the elastic limits of gutter life. In fact, the rarified atmosphere of this film feels as if it took place in an alien world eons past, instead of in the 1930s. Throughout the course of the movie, we come to realize that the life of a nun is a life contrary to nature -- a life of untold commitment and sacrifice that few would ever attempt, had they fully understood its requirements. One wonders if a contemporary portrayal of humans containing such courageous moral depth could be of any service to a hollow society like ours -- a society immersed in the watery pabulum of sensual liberal dogma. Indeed, such complexity might be the most ferocious enemy to that utopian impulse of wrestling heaven down to earth.

    Throughout the entire body of the film, Audrey Hepburn’s character is beset by the smoldering internal conflict between a life of obedience to her Order and that of a determined soul driven by the dream of medical service in the Congo. Her angst is interesting because her brilliance as a human being, with its attending ego and pride, is continuously coming into conflict with her vow of humility. The palpable tension that arises is heroic in the extreme. The audience commiserates with “Sister Luke” at each successive disappointment, and we incrementally grow to realize that her life’s choice, although noble in the highest sense, was perhaps not right for her.



    Indeed, Sister Luke’s abnegation of self contends with her considerable ambition, causing her untold psychological anguish. The inner war for perfection allows her no respite. As a nun, she must live in a constant state of debasement and self-criticism: manifested by writing self-accusations in her little book or confessing towards her peers a growing litany of microscopic imperfections -- spilling milk, taking a glass of water without permission, or speaking to a hospital patient needing a human touch during the “Grand Silence.” In attempting to peel the layers of self that exist like a massive onion, she finds that the perception of her faults ignites on contact with self-awareness, and that her entrenched ego is circular in its deceitfulness. After beating herself up for a failure of obedience, she soon realizes that the satisfaction of finally obtaining obedience yields an even more virulent pride that must be addressed. And so it goes -- that relentless dialogue taking place behind a measured mask that rarely cracks. Having confessed to her superior that she had hoped to arrive eventually at a place of rest, she is told -- there is no such rest.

    Every Christian struggles with the quicksand of pride, and whosoever does not understand this shifting conundrum of triumph and defeat is unworthy of the name. Some believers will utter a silent prayer and give a knowing nod of the head while watching The Nun’s Story, which is played neither as a burlesque of the contemplative life, nor is it so romanticized. It is a beautiful and difficult film to watch, and Ms. Hepburn breathed life into a complex character in a way that few ever could.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I am not privy to the workings of Marie Louise Habets’ (the person the film was based upon) mind, but I would be less than charitable were I to ascribe her eventual sexual proclivity as her reason for leaving the Order. Habets was deeply wounded by the death of her father at the hands of the Nazis and found it impossible to forgive. Upon leaving the cloistered world, she fought severe depression but eventually served selflessly as a nurse aiding the Belgian resistance, and her existence was devoted to others for the rest of her life. Given her experiences and sensitivity, I’m sure her decision to step away from her vows was a matter of no casual importance. She never publicly proclaimed the “Virtues of Sappho” as being commensurate or superior to natural unions, nor did she ever malign her former comrades, or the church itself. Indeed, she offered only praise and admiration. Conservatives can live with this.

      But life is one thing and art is quite another. What remains crucial here is this: the Power of Art in molding human souls. Plato thought its importance was paramount, since the arts were “thrice removed from reality” and their potential for good or ill is fundamental in the formation of the City’s character. Art, in the classical sense, is by nature erotic -- it draws us to its beauty while its contemplation frees us from the ugly and mundane. It has the capacity to make us better men or worse -- to elevate our consciousness towards noble aspirations or drag us down into the mire of prurience.

      The lesson that The Nun’s Story -- taken on its face as a work of film art -- is this: it compels us to address the human dilemma of knowing ourselves, and how we must all balance on the razor’s edge of self-affirmation and duty. We can run this film through our ideological gauntlets: making it pay for disappointing us or in upsetting the conditions that anchor our conception of the world -- but that would not be judging it on its fair merits. Are we made better by the work? Say what you will about this severe mode of serving the world: its self-flagellation of desire, its supposed “denial of life” (this is nihilism from the world’s perspective), even an arguable theological elevation of works over grace -- all these are perhaps debatable points. Yet, something should be said about the beauty of a life that holds itself accountable to its adamantine first principles; one that is as merciless with its own flaws as it is charitable to the stumblings of others. That crucifixion of self, that sacrifice of fleeting happiness for the sole benefit of the world’s miserable, is uniquely sublime. Any art that can convey to its audience this hyperborean quality of love and duty must be accorded honor, lest we succumb to the cynicism that is lurking just outside the portals of our hearts. Art once aspired to make us good. It does so no more.

      Modern art -- and all arts that are products of the Postmodern age -- where subjectivity is the only withered perspective -- no longer retains the power of ascension. This art seeks to erode; it exists as provocateur. It cannot pronounce anything sacred because such an ideation no longer exists in its vocabulary. Therefore, such art is judged to be transformationally decrepit -- and by that I mean: it is in the business of deconstructing Man into a clever animal and its politics are geared to the dismantling of the old for the sake of its terrible new modes and orders. This “art,” nevertheless, has a deep problem that it cannot resolve: when you dynamite the foundations of truth and beauty, no content remains for the aesthetic sustenance of this World of Dwarves -- other than fleeting shrieks of Passion and Will. And these are, of themselves, dutyless pillars ill-suited to erect a healthy society upon.

      Delete
    2. Finally, taken as a whole, our lives can be aesthetic pieces, just as movies and paintings are. Being comprised of context, form and content, our legacies have the potential for the uplift or degradation of others -- or merely, for that matter, the sterile semblance of utter banality. In the end, the beautiful life is best lived for the sake of others, while our preening egos are best placed among shadows in the canvas’ background. And like all works of art, we cannot be properly evaluated or weighed in the balance until the final brushstroke. Let us endeavor to finish well.

      Glenn Fairman writes from Highland, Ca. He welcomes your correspondence at arete5000@dslextreme.com and can be followed at www.stubbornthings.org and on Twitter.


      Read more: http://americanthinker.com/2014/08/art_and_habit.html#ixzz3ByUQMHzS



      Delete
    3. >>>>But life is one thing and art is quite another. What remains crucial here is this: the Power of Art in molding human souls. Plato thought its importance was paramount, since the arts were “thrice removed from reality” and their potential for good or ill is fundamental in the formation of the City’s character. Art, in the classical sense, is by nature erotic -- it draws us to its beauty while its contemplation frees us from the ugly and mundane. It has the capacity to make us better men or worse -- to elevate our consciousness towards noble aspirations or drag us down into the mire of prurience.<<<<

      Delete
  11. Let me design the polling questions and you will see the difference.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Let me do it for you -

      Do you support or oppose Israel in its genocidal actions against the noble Gazans?

      Do you support Israel in its theft of the lands of others, or do you oppose Israel in its theft of the lands of others?

      etc
      etc

      Delete
  12. Why do you think there is a ceaseless barrage of one sided media and bullshit from Aipac and Netanyahu? They know what they are doing and how to manipulate. The latest is trying to tie Hamas to ISIS. Propaganda.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. :)

      Coming from you.......that's pretty funny.


      See my last post on the last thread.

      Delete
    2. Why would I bother? You are like an old blue tailed fly tormented cow that returns to the same stall regardless of how much slippery shit is on the floor.

      Delete
    3. It surely would not do you any good, so you shouldn't bother.

      Delete
    4. The latest is trying to tie Hamas to ISIS. Propaganda.


      Well they BOTH scream ALLAH AkBAR when beheading their enemies...

      They BOTH HATE Jews.

      They Both murder folks and use the KORAN to justify it..

      They both want to liberate "palestine"

      They both are in Gaza.

      Yep there are the same.

      Delete
  13. Why do you think those Pentagon officers were shocked by Israeli artillery fire into Gaza? It did not ring with the previous Propaganda, that’s why. The could see for the first time and were “shocked”.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I imagine they were probably ordered to be 'shocked' from above.

      Were they shocked by the shooting of hundreds of missiles from civilian sites by Hamas into Israel?

      Probably, anyone would be, but they kept silent because they like to advance up the ranks?

      Delete
    2. shocked? I find it hard to believe that Pentagon Officers were shocked.

      Now there is the point that thousands of Officers have been removed from duty that had experience. To be replaced with more progressive folks, the "officers" that Obama and Hagel wanted to rise up the ranks that are more concerned about allowing transgendered solders serve and how to not offend moslems, those "officers" I guess would be shocked that warfare is horrible.

      Delete
    3. WASHINGTON — Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said in an interview broadcast on Sunday that the military should “continually” review its prohibition on transgender people in the armed forces, calling into question whether the Pentagon’s ban may eventually be lifted, as was the ban on gay men and lesbians in the military.


      Written by Allen West on August 27, 2014
      Share!
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      Let me see, ISIS just beheaded an American citizen and is committing genocide against Christians and religious minorities. Ukraine has captured Russian soldiers in its country. Israel is engaged in a conflagration against Hamas and has recently endured rockets fired from Hezbollah in the north. We have a porous southern border and tens of thousands of illegal aliens have been dispersed all over our country. No one is talking about Iran anymore, and its economic sanctions are eased. We just found out that an American, Douglas MacArthur McCain, who grew up in Minnesota was killed in Syria — fighting for ISIS.

      And with all that, what is the national security focus of the Pentagon and the Obama administration? Transgendered soldiers.


      Read more at http://allenbwest.com/2014/08/never-mind-isis-pentagon-focusing-letting-transgenders-serve-video/#C4dITe81f0A0Ey0f.99

      Delete
    4. New report just in:

      Pentagon Officers shocked that ammunition was used to kill people...

      We thought our job was to stock pile ammunition in large amounts to dry up the civilian ability to purchase same. It never occurred that our munitions could or WOULD be used to fight in war.

      "Shocked I say, totally, like shocked", a Senior Pentagon Officer said while giving an interview at his/her/it's favorite Frozen Yogurt shop. "I mean really, I go to my favorite FroGo shop and I read that our bullets are being fired at real people"?

      Today's America military!

      There is no conflict that can be won thru arms.

      LOL

      Delete
  14. Latest Gallup Poll Shows Young Americans Overwhelmingly Support Palestine

    Overall American’s stand divided on whether Israel's actions against Gaza are justified.

    By Gallup | August 4, 2014

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Today's young Americans are ill read idiots. Most probably have already in their minds convicted the cop in Ferguson of out and out murder.............

      Delete
    2. The 'kids', as Joseph Campbell used to call them, had a saying back in the day:

      "Never trust anyone over thirty"

      The truth is more like one should never waste time even listening to anyone under thirty.

      Begin to listen at forty, pick you ears up at fifty, at sixty pay real attention, at seventy form your own opinion.........

      Delete
    3. At eighty hold your position, at ninety, fall silent.....

      Delete
  15. Today's USA military has been ordered to refer to the 'incident' at Fort Hood as 'workplace violence', not, o my, not terrorism, or Islamic insanity, etc.........

    I wouldn't put much stock in what today's USA military says or doesn't say publically. I imagine their private opinions are considerably different from what they have been ordered to say publically.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You truly are an idiot..........

      Delete
    2. The "Official" reports are often biased, Robert.
      Like the one pertaining to the "USS Liberty", in a situation like that, yes ...
      The "Official" line will endorsed.

      But not in conversations. It that there is nothing but their own eyes, ears and moral judgement then.

      Delete
    3. Bob has the ability to mimic, how special ...

      We'll get him a spot in the Olympics, now.

      Delete
    4. It has been my observation that the more one knows about the Israeli Palestinian issue the less inclined one is to accept the Israeli position.

      The Israelis are much more sophisticated in presenting their view to the public but actions like the recent one in Gaza works against their propaganda goals.

      I feel that it is a long shot for the US public to turn hard against Israel but it is possible.

      Delete
    5. Bob is a parrot. No original thought presented just cut and paste and squawks.

      Delete
    6. It is a growing movement, Ash.
      Even here, I was once a 'supporter' of Israel.
      Had read Leon Uris.

      It was the attitude of the Israeli Firsters, though that caused me to investigate the situation myself.
      The truths were and still are incontrovertible.

      The refugees from from Europe have created a Fascist Apartheid state, and that's the reality of their dream.
      It has become a nightmare for millions of innocent people.

      Delete
    7. You don't observe Ash. Except through the lens of your liberal narrative, which immediately condemned the cop in Ferguson, as you did, before any evidence at all was known.

      We still don't know what happened. The full toxicology results will be interesting. But you, and Rufus of course, had it in immediately for the cop.

      You imbibed your liberal narrative from sitting on the knees of your professor daddy.

      And you talk about original thought.......Jesus Christ what a site is the EB.

      Delete
    8. Israel has become the lynch pin to a variety of challenges facing the US in that region of the world.

      Their inability to compromise, from their rejection of UN Resolution 181, right up to today.
      Providing a history of political and military aggression that is extensive.

      Delete
    9. Let's see, what are the similarities between ISIS and Hamas?

      Well, for starters, both are fully committed to genocide of the 'others'..........

      This is a very bad beginning, so I will go no further..............

      Delete
    10. Is not true, Bob da ho.

      Hamas only wants the removal of the European colonials, back to Europe.

      Hamas does not deny there is a "Jewish" people, as the Zionists of Israel deny the very existence of Palestinians.
      That very denial of there being a Palestinian people, that is genocide.

      Words have meanings, "Bob da ho",

      Delete
    11. "Providing a history of political and military aggression that is extensive"

      Right-o

      Let us now count the defensive wars Israel has fought, and won.........from their very beginning.......the list is......extensive

      Delete
    12. "Jack" is frustrated and beginning to call names.

      By the way, Ash, thinking of cut and paste, Deuce begins every thread with some sort of cut and paste.

      There is nothing wrong with cutting and pasting, if the article has some merit.

      Delete
    13. The declaration of statehood, in violation of UN Resolution 181 was an aggressive, political act, Bob.

      Their rejection of Resolution 181 is what led to the war.
      The Zionists started the war, when they created their Apartheid state.

      Delete
    14. The Israeli attack upon the USS Liberty, that was not defensive. The USS Liberty was unarmed.

      Delete
    15. When you lack the ability to actually discuss an issue?

      Go for the big lie...

      LOL

      Delete
    16. The Zionists started the war, when they created their Apartheid state.


      LOL

      Getting more unhinged by the day...

      Delete
    17. Jack HawkinsSun Aug 31, 10:01:00 AM EDT
      Is not true, Bob da ho.

      Hamas only wants the removal of the European colonials, back to Europe.





      1/3 of Israel is made up Jews driven from their homes in the middle east, what does Hamas want to do with them?

      European colonials, back to Europe.?

      What % of Israelis are born in Europe?


      Rat, you are a European colonialist, by your definition, are you leaving America for Europe anytime soon?

      Delete
  16. The arm chair pacifists keep telling us that it will not work, while the successes keep rolling in.
    Where there are local forces ready, willing and able to advance, US close air support will make the difference, will be the deciding TACTICAL advantage that ensures the defeat of the ISIS on the ground.

    http://time.com/3233570/iraq-amerli-isis-shiite-turkmen/>Iraqi Forces Break ISIS Siege After U.S. Air Campaign

    The Iraqi military announced Sunday it had broken a siege of the town of Amerli by forces of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, hours after the United States launched an air campaign to assist Iraqi civilians there.
    More
    Iraqi Forces Break Militant Siege of Shiite TownU.S. Air Strikes and Aid for Iraqi Town Under SiegeMore Money: Why Paychecks Will Get Fatter for Many Americans NBC News'The Greatest Escape': U.N. Peacekeepers Flee Militants NBC NewsBeach Tragedy: Sand Collapse Kills 9-year-old Digging Hole NBC News

    Army spokesman Lt. Gen. Qassim al-Moussawi said Iraqi security forces and Shiite militiamen had liberated the Shiite Turkmen town on Sunday, the AP reported, bringing to an end a months-long siege by Sunni militants.

    U.S. and allied aircraft conducted humanitarian airdrops to assist thousands of Shiite Turkmen who had been surrounded by ISIS militants for weeks and had been running low on food, water, and medical supplies, Pentagon Press Secretary Rear Admiral John Kirby said in a statement. American aircraft also launched three airstrikes against ISIS positions near the city.

    “At the request of the Government of Iraq, the United States military today airdropped humanitarian aid to the town of Amerli, home to thousands of Shia Turkmen who have been cut off from receiving food, water, and medical supplies for two months by [ISIS],” Kirby said. ‘The United States Air Force delivered this aid alongside aircraft from Australia, France and the United Kingdom who also dropped much needed supplies.”

    The U.S. airstrikes, though limited, had been a decisive factor in the breaking of the siege, The Washington Post reported, allowing Iraqi forces and militia to stage a coordinated assault on ISIS-held towns in the area. About 15,000 Shiite Turkmen residents of the town of Amerli had entrenched themselves to resist the march of ISIS forces across northern Iraq.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. cut 'n paste, cut 'n paste, cut 'n paste

      heh

      Delete
  17. Putin wants east Ukraine 'statehood' talks

    'We need to immediately begin substantive talks ... on questions of the political organisation of society and statehood for southeastern Ukraine with the goal of protecting the lawful interests of the people who live there,' Putin was quoted as saying by Russian news agencies on a TV show broadcast in the far east of the country.

    No more discussion of a "Federation", the Russians are upping the ante ...

    ReplyDelete
  18. When you lose the millennials, you lose the future. Social media is a curse to Aipac. The Israeli story of the sixties and seventies is no longer relevant or believable today.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It is why the Israeli have rolled out battalions of Social Media combatants.

      Their lies are shop worn, seen through and the truth exposed.
      But they rant and wail, here and in other locales I have seen.

      Same worn out bromides, endlessly repeated.
      Lies when they were created, lies when they are repeated, today.

      Delete
    2. You are nearly universally disliked here, by common testimony.

      Why not go somewhere else, and leave the vast majority here in some peace?

      Delete
    3. Do not care, "Bob da ho".

      I am not in this for accolades or friendship.
      Peace, not in your time.

      Delete
    4. You can gain peace when you are dead.

      Or leave this part of life behind.

      Delete
    5. Deuce ☂Sun Aug 31, 10:02:00 AM EDT
      When you lose the millennials, you lose the future. Social media is a curse to Aipac. The Israeli story of the sixties and seventies is no longer relevant or believable today.

      But Deuce, your calculus is premature.. The flood of anti-JEWISH attacks on students, restaurants, places of worship, on campuses (Temple University just 2 weeks ago, my Dad's Alma Mater) all in the name of hatred for Israel has stripped the mask off the BDS and anti-zionism movement,

      The truth is out there... FUCK OFF JEWS, DIE JEWS< HITLER WAS RIGHT, GAS THE JEWS...

      Yeah, 30 years of anti-Israel screeds, politically correct "we just don't like Israel" bullhsit has been exposed in 7 weeks to be what some of us knew all the time. "anti-zionism IS anti-semitism"

      The war in Gaza HELPED educate millions of rose colored, progressive Jews into reality.

      It aint about borders, it aint about freedom for Palestinians (they accepted the ceasefire offer after 50 days they were OFFERED on day one).

      Pure evil hatred for Jews is alive and well and is everywhere (even here), so the "millennium" Jews? WOKE UP and are more ZIONIST today than 8 weeks ago. The Jew haters have created MORE ZIONISTS than ever before.

      Now add to that? Hamas's victory celebrations, executions of civilians, boasts of the NEXT war and future victory? ISIS/ISIL?

      LOL

      The real social media war is just beginning..

      Hamas's fellow islamists, the ISIS/ISIL/IS guys? They are driving the narrative.

      Let's face it, every time a westerner is beheaded by a moslem?

      A MILLION ZIONISTs are CREATED...

      Delete
    6. Jack HawkinsSun Aug 31, 10:14:00 AM EDT
      You can gain peace when you are dead.
      Or leave this part of life behind.


      so scary...

      Delete
    7. Jack HawkinsSun Aug 31, 10:13:00 AM EDT
      Do not care, "Bob da ho".
      I am not in this for accolades or friendship.
      Peace, not in your time.



      Bob, some people are just not "people" people...

      :)

      Delete
  19. There are always 'millennials' - every generation has its different name -

    What is really odd is when older people that should know better by now regress to 'millenialism' themselves.

    ReplyDelete
  20. ..and each time they shape the future not reflect the pass. Israeli propaganda is still in bell bottoms.

    ReplyDelete
  21. If for a tranquil mind you seek,
    These things observe with care:
    Of whom you speak, to whom you speak,
    And how, and when and where.
    - Anonymous

    ReplyDelete
  22. No more discussion of a “Federation”, the Russians are upping the ante ...

    I posted a new video which recounts what DR posted about Putin.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. DR is a figment of your imagination

      Delete
  23. The refugees from from Europe have created a Fascist Apartheid state, and that's the reality of their dream.
    It has become a nightmare for millions of innocent people.


    Rat is unhinged.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rat is a figment of your imaginationSun Aug 31, 10:30:00 AM EDT

      .

      Delete
    2. No, Rat is the guy that I turned into the AZ FBI...

      He is you..

      And they and I KNOW who you are...

      Delete
    3. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    4. what happened to the free exchanges of Ideas?

      Delete
  24. AshSun Aug 31, 09:40:00 AM EDT
    It has been my observation that the more one knows about the Israeli Palestinian issue the less inclined one is to accept the Israeli position.
    \\


    And yet you never have been there.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Irrelevant to the discussion.

      You have never been to the US, "O"rdure, but discuss it at length.

      Delete
    2. Really? You who tried to out me as a guy in Ohio?

      Ask Deuce for my IP address asshole..

      LOL

      We both know you are full of shit. We BOTH know who you are.

      We both KNOW who I am...

      LOL

      Loser.

      Delete
    3. Rants and raves, who is the "Candyman"?

      Delete
  25. The failure of the Israeli propaganda machine to advance, into the 21st century is observable, right here at the Elephant Bar.

    The three Zionists, the Israeli stooges ... Cannot utilize HTML.
    Either they are idiots and cannot learn the code, or their bosses at the Social Media Ministry will not allow it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "O"riginal, he knew HTML.

      But he still blogs at his site, with the map.
      It is still there, but ...

      "O"riginal is not "O"rdure.
      "Bob da ho" - no telling what characterization is being played there.
      There is no continuity from the beginning. No authenticity.

      allen, the dentist Marine ... who would have been a Naval officer, if his story rang true.

      Delete
    2. Actually Jack, i am surprised you have not admitted that BOTH of my BLOGS have been updated weeks ago with a message for your sorry ASS...

      FUCK YOU RAT

      Delete
    3. Jack Rat, you are such a pathetic loser...

      That is why your wife left you and took your only human child...

      Delete
    4. Ever think the reason we don't use HTML is because we don't care to?

      Delete
    5. You were directly complicit in the killing of innocents in Central America, if your story was true.

      You threaten people on the internet.

      You put my old address up.

      Deuce should have banned you long ago.

      A self professed 'professional asshole' like you stated yourself to be has no place in polite conversation.

      You just like to hear yourself pass gas, but no one else is at all thrilled about it.

      And it is the same week after week, month after month, year after year.

      Take a break for awhile.

      Come up for some air.

      Shoo, go way, go way.

      The majority here wish you to do so.

      Delete
    6. Bob, Rat/Jack/Farmer/Hess does more for the Zionist / Israel cause by having him here...

      He's lies, his distortions and his rants serve a great purpose...

      Let the cancer see the light of day.

      Delete
    7. You may well be right.

      It is irritating though.

      Delete
    8. “A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.”


      Delete
  26. Thinking on Nuns....and Priests........and then Chaucer......and to piss Ash off by cutting and pasting.......

    The Nun's Priest's Tale

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Jump to: navigation, search

    Chanticleer and the Fox in a mediaeval manuscript miniature

    The Nun's Priest's Tale is one of The Canterbury Tales by the Middle English poet Geoffrey Chaucer. Composed in the 1390s, the 626-line narrative poem is a beast fable and mock epic based on an incident in the Reynard cycle. The story of Chanticleer and the Fox became further popularised in Britain through this means.



    Contents [hide]
    1 The tale and framing narrative
    2 Adaptations
    3 See also
    4 Notes
    5 External links


    The tale and framing narrative[edit]

    The prologue clearly links the story with the previous Monk's Tale, a series of short accounts of toppled despots, criminals and fallen heroes which prompts an interruption from the knight. The host upholds the knight's complaint and orders the monk to change his story. The monk refuses, saying he has no lust to pleye, and so the Host calls on the Nun's Priest to give the next tale. There is no substantial depiction of this character in Chaucer's General Prologue, but in the tale's epilogue the Host is moved to give a highly approving portrait which highlights his great physical strength and presence. "The Nun's Priest's Tale" offers a lively and skilfully told story from a previously almost invisible character.

    A Victorian stained glass window by Clement James Heaton

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The fable concerns a world of talking animals who reflect both human perception and fallacy. Its protagonist is Chauntecleer, a proud cock (rooster) who dreams of his approaching doom in the form of a fox. Frightened, he awakens Pertelote, the chief favourite among his seven wives. She assures him that he only suffers from indigestion and chides him for paying heed to a simple dream. Chauntecleer recounts stories of prophets who foresaw their deaths, dreams that came true, and dreams that were more profound (for instance, Cicero's account of the Dream of Scipio). Chauntecleer is comforted and proceeds to greet a new day. Unfortunately for Chauntecleer, his own dream was also correct. A col-fox, ful of sly iniquitee (line 3215), who has previously tricked Chauntecleer's father and mother to their downfall, lies in wait for him in a bed of wortes.

      When Chauntecleer spots this daun Russell (Line 3334),[1] the fox plays to his prey's inflated ego and overcomes the cock's instinct to escape by insisting he would love to hear Chauntecleer crow just as his amazing father did, standing on tiptoe with neck outstretched and eyes closed. When the cock does so, he is promptly snatched from the yard in the fox's jaws and slung over his back. As the fox flees through the forest, with the entire barnyard giving chase, the captured Chauntecleer suggests that he should pause to tell his pursuers to give up. The predator's own pride is now his undoing: as the fox opens his mouth to taunt his pursuers, Chauntecleer escapes from his jaws and flies into the nearest tree. The fox tries in vain to convince the wary rooster of his repentance; it now prefers the safety of the tree and refuses to fall for the same trick a second time.

      The Nun's Priest elaborates his slender tale with epic parallels drawn from ancient history and chivalry and spins it out with many an excursus, giving a display of learning which, in the context of the story and its characters, can only be comic and ironic. It concludes by admonishing the audience to be careful of reckless decisions and of truste on flaterye.


      Adaptations[edit]

      Robert Henryson used Chaucer's tale as a source for his Taill of Schir Chanticleir and the Foxe, the third poem in his Morall Fabillis of Esope the Phrygian, composed in or around the 1480s. Later, the poet John Dryden adapted the tale into more comprehensible modern language under the title of The Cock and the Fox (1700). In 2007, the playwright Dougie Blaxland wrote a comic verse play Chauntecleer and Pertelotte, roughly based on the Nun's Priest's Tale.[2]

      Barbara Cooney's adaptation for children with her own illustrations, Chanticleer and the Fox, won the Caldecott Medal in 1959. Another illustrated edition of the tale won the 1992 Kerlan Award. This was Chanticleer and the Fox – A Chaucerian Tale (1991), written by Fulton Roberts with Marc Davis' drawings for a Disney cartoon that was never completed.[3]

      Among musical settings have been Gordon Jacob's The Nun's Priest's Tale (1951) and the similarly titled choral setting by Ross Lee Finney.[4] Another American adaptation was Seymour Barab's comic opera Chanticleer.[5] In the UK Michael Hurd set the tale as Rooster Rag, a pop cantata for children (1976).[6]

      A full-length musical stage adaptation of The Canterbury Tales, composed of the Prologue, Epilogue, The Nun's Priest's Tale, and four other tales, was presented at the Phoenix Theatre, London on 21 March 1968, with music by Richard Hill & John Hawkins, lyrics by Nevill Coghill, and original concept, book, and direction by Martin Starkie. The The Nun's Priest's Tale section was excluded from the original 1969 Broadway production, though reinstated in the 1970 US tour.

      Delete
  27. Deuce ☂Sun Aug 31, 10:02:00 AM EDT
    When you lose the millennials, you lose the future. Social media is a curse to Aipac. The Israeli story of the sixties and seventies is no longer relevant or believable today.


    You make a decent point. the 60s and 70s re not longer relevant.

    That is why ISIS/ISIl, Iran and the Hamas (among scores of other Jihadists) have made today important.

    The youngsters don't remember last year.

    Nor do they remember the PLO Hijackings of airliners, the Munich Olympics, heck I'd bet MOST of the youngsters don't remember 911.

    But the Jihadists across the globe will not let us down, they cannot change their stripes.

    Murder, rape, executions, stonings are all part of the playbook, as well as the ANGRY MOSLEM protesting...

    Yep it's a new day..

    No one cares about 1920, 1948, 1967, 1973 anymore.

    Stalins starvations, the Holocaust, PolPot, Rwanda? All history footnotes.

    Now ISIS in Mosul, Islamists in Nigeria, Boston Bombings by Moslems, Hamas using human shields, Assad murdering 200,000 using barrel bombs, Iran hanging gays from cranes, the beheading of a british solder in England all new....

    The videos of ISIS murdering 250 syrian POW's in a pit? The videos of moslems routing in France and trying to burn down trapped Jews in their Synagogue..

    That is the new narrative.

    :)

    ReplyDelete
  28. .

    Long-term trends should concern Israel.

    In an Economist poll, nearly 45% said that Israeli influence in the world is mainly negative while only a little over 20% said that it was mainly positive. The growing Muslim population in Europe will make it harder to shift those numbers in the other direction.

    http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21610312-pummelling-gaza-has-cost-israel-sympathy-not-just-europe-also-among-americans

    Of course, most of that won't matter as long as Israel can maintain its influence in the US. However, even here there are trends that must be worrying for Israel. As mentioned above, polls show that support for Israel on key policies is waning amongst the younger generations. And despite Obumble's protestations, Israel and AIPAC are taking note.

    Add to this trends amongst key historical allies to Israel, still nascent but growing and the future becomes less clear here. These groups include the aforementioned young people, liberal Jews, the Democratic Party, and liberal writers such as Peter Beinart. Even amongst evangelical Christians, 26% of the population and Israel's largest and most ardent support group, there is a movement, strongly opposed by the old-school establishment to take a more balanced approach on its views of Israel. Also, much of the media began shifting long ago.

    In the past, Israel was viewed as that plucky little state holding out against invading armies of radical Muslim states. However, it may be harder to maintain that view as Israel continues to expand towards a Greater Israel.

    The decades long shift rightward in Israel politics is unlikely to do anything to change the course of these trends.

    Israel still controls the centers of power in the US through AIPAC and other Jewish organizations as noted in the following article from the New Yorker.

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/01/friends-israel

    [As with most New Yorker articles it is rather long but is well worth reading as it 'names names' :)]

    AIPAC, through its money bundling efforts and the other goodies it provides to law makers, will continue to effectively use money to influence policy decisions in Israel's favor or more accurately in Israel's right-wing party's favor; however, over time the other big hammer the Lobby holds, US public opinion's influence on policy makers, may lessen. Likewise, other liberal Jewish groups like J-Street, while no match for AIPAC influence at this point, are beginning to use the same techniques that have been used so successfully by AIPAC, bundling and use of the media.

    What can Israel do? They have already started an outreach program to these various groups trying to win back the apostates. Anyone who has watched TV over the last couple of months must have seen the numerous adds put out by Jewish groups and their conservative evangelical supporters. AIPAC will continue trying to influence elections paying for congressional junkets to Israel for 'educational' purposes. The usual stuff that has worked well for Israel in the past.

    However, given trends in the West, perhaps it is time for Israel to pivot East, not in words like with Obama but in actuality. Major players in the East are more philosophically attuned to the concept of maintaining the status quo, of maintaining order without undue regard for moral imperatives. They offer a more secular view of politics and their view of democracy is fluid. Of course, it will all depend on the cost/benefit analysis. They are realists and if Israel can offer them more than they can get from Israel's enemies they will welcome her with open arms.

    .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Of course, most of that won't matter as long as Israel can maintain its influence in the US. However, even here there are trends that must be worrying for Israel. As mentioned above, polls show that support for Israel on key policies is waning amongst the younger generations. And despite Obumble's protestations, Israel and AIPAC are taking note.


      Trends in America are worrisome too. America is being changed by the Progressives. Traditional Christians and Jews are very worried about America's future.

      If you watch the morning MSM you find they are more concerned about transgenderism, gay rights, gun control, illegals getting legal status and redistribution of wealth.

      They do not talk about the real issues.

      Delete
    2. Quirk: In the past, Israel was viewed as that plucky little state holding out against invading armies of radical Muslim states. However, it may be harder to maintain that view as Israel continues to expand towards a Greater Israel.


      Greater Israel?

      Israel gave up the Sinai, Gaza, 90% of the West Bank, all of Lebanon.

      Israel holding on to selected areas of the west bank, the golan and Jerusalem is hardly "from the river to the sea" or the 1922 land grant to establish Israel, which was the west and east banks of the Jordan.

      No "Greater Israel" is no longer happening and ti USE that term speaks of either ignorance or bias.

      Delete
    3. "The aim of the Crusaders' campaign is to prepare the atmosphere for the establishment of the so-called greater Israel state, which includes great parts of Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Jordan and large portions of (Saudi Arabia)

      Define "greater israel"

      Delete
    4. .

      Some have defined it by the area of the current Israel and the occupied territories.

      If you go by what some of the early Zionists thought then it would extend well into Jordan.

      The first is a given. Strictly my personal opinion, but I would suspect that after Israel has consolidated that position, it will eventually find or manufacture an excuse to extend its hegemony across the entire Golan Heights and well into Lebanon. Expansion into Jordan may be a bridge too far as long as Jordan can maintain the current monarchy and remain a faithful client of the US.

      .

      Delete
    5. Sorry Quirk, Greater Israel has NEVER been the current Israel and the disputed lands of the west bank and gaza.

      Delete
    6. .

      By 'a given', I meant a done deal. There is little doubt Israel will absorb the West Bank and Gaza, one way or another. As I said, the rest is just my opinion.

      .

      Delete
  29. Deuce ☂Sun Aug 31, 09:20:00 AM EDT
    Latest Gallup Poll Shows Young Americans Overwhelmingly Support Palestine


    Great, I suggest Hamas open up the beach for spring break... Let's see how that works..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. .

      I understand the State Department has issued a travel warning about walking on the beaches there.

      .

      Delete
    2. Absolutely, Hamas's own rockets have killed scores when firing at Israel they go off course and kill their own.

      But again your pithy response IGNORES the reality.

      Spring Break in Gaza should be required for all those that LOVE the Gazans.

      Delete
  30. QuirkSun Aug 31, 11:19:00 AM EDT
    .

    Long-term trends should concern Israel.

    In an Economist poll, nearly 45% said that Israeli influence in the world is mainly negative while only a little over 20% said that it was mainly positive. The growing Muslim population in Europe will make it harder to shift those numbers in the other direction.



    No to worry Quirk, the growing muslim population in Europe will attack, riot, loot, rape, fire bomb, enforce sharia and terrorize the folks of Europe until one day, not to far in the future, the normal folks of Europe will flipout and solve the problem

    That day is coming...

    and it will be bloody.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Mosul, and Fallujah are going to be pretty tough slogs.

    Haditha, and Tikrit, probably, to a lesser extent.

    The rest of the Iraqi Campaign, if the government can get it together, at all, should go fairly easily - Slowly, . . . . . but easily.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ramadi, also, looks like a nasty-ish piece of work.

      Delete
    2. ... humanitarian aid was ­delivered in conjunction with “co-ordinated airstrikes against nearby Islamic terrorists in order to support this humanitarian assistance operation”, he added, referring to Islamic State forces.

      “The operations will be limited in their scope and duration as necessary to address this emerging humanitarian crisis and protect the civilians trapped in Amerli,” Admiral Kirby said.

      Delete
    3. The coordinated attacks began Saturday night, according to Iraqi officials.
      Karim al-Nouri, a high-ranking official in the Shiite-led Badr Brigades, said thousands of troops, including ones from the Iraqi army, began their advance at 7:30 p.m.

      It marked the second time this month that the U.S. coordinated airstrikes and humanitarian aid drops to help civilians in Iraq trapped by ISIS.
      “Amerli has been liberated,” said local politician Mahdi Taqi.
      “There is so much joy and people are cheering in the streets.”

      ISIS still has a strong grip over much of Iraq


      http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2014/08/31/u-s-airstrikes-help-break-isis-siege.html

      Delete
  32. Liberman: Israel should topple Hamas, not reoccupy Gaza
    Jerusalem Post - ‎

    Foreign minister calls the Gaza cease-fire signed last week "a really bad choice" for Israel,
    calls for sustainable solution that includes replacing Hamas with "moderate" leadership in the Strip.

    ReplyDelete
  33. How about a policy that replaces Israeli leadership to end this kind of stupidity:

    (Reuters) - Israel announced on Sunday a land appropriation in the occupied West Bank that an anti-settlement group termed the biggest in 30 years and a Palestinian official said would cause only more friction after the Gaza war.

    Some 400 hectares (988 acres) in the Etzion settlement bloc near Bethlehem were declared "state land, on the instructions of the political echelon" by the military-run Civil Administration.

    Israel Radio said the step was taken in response to the kidnapping and killing of three Jewish teens by Hamas militants in the area in June. The notice published by the military gave no reason for the decision.

    Peace Now, which opposes Israeli settlement activities in the West Bank - territory Palestinians seek for a state, said the appropriation was meant to turn a site where 10 families now live adjacent to a Jewish seminary into a permanent settlement.

    Construction of a major settlement at the location, known as "Gevaot", has been mooted by Israel since 2000. Last year, the government invited bids for the building of 1,000 housing units at the site.

    Peace Now said the land seizure was the largest announced by Israel in the West Bank since the 1980s and that anyone with ownership claims had 45 days to appeal. A local Palestinian mayor said Palestinians owned the tracts and harvested olive trees on them.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies

    1. Some people talk of morality, and some of religion, but give me a little snug property.
       

      Delete
    2. Cool..

      Land is the answer.

      If the Palestinians want war? israel should annex land.

      650 rockets were shot into Israel from Fatah/PA members.

      They need to be punished.

      Delete
    3. You fail to understand international law regarding group punishment.

      Delete
    4. This is what has turned me.

      In my adulthood, I have gone from an ardent Israel supporter, to "agnostic" on the issue, to Palestinian supporter.

      The "drip, drip, drip" of Israeli thievery has become simply unbearable. I can't even start to imagine what it would feel like if I were a Palestinian, or had Palestinian relatives.

      Delete
    5. A history of Gush Etzion and the Massacre of Kfar Etzion


      Early History of Gush Etzion
      The four kibbutzim (communal settlements) of Gush Etzion are associated with several sad and glorious chapters in the history of modern Israel, and with a massacre carried out by Arab Palestinians.

      The Etzion Bloc, or Gush Etzion as it is called in Hebrew, is located on the main road from the south to Jerusalem, northwest of Hebron. The Etzion bloc was settled and resettled three times, on land purchased by the Jews, beginning in 1927. Each time, residents were forced to abandon their homes in the face of Arab violence. The final saga of the Etzion bloc included two separate massacres and a prolonged and stubborn defense against hopeless odds. The bloc was finally overrun by soldiers of the British armed and officered Jordan Legion, who were responsible for the final massacre of surrendered defenders, a war crime.

      The first settlement in this area was called Migdal Eder, built on land purchased from local Arabs by the Zichron David Company. It was founded in 1927. The pioneers included orthodox Yemenite Jews. During the Arab riots of 1929, Migdal Eder settlers were evacuated to the Russian Orthodox monastery and thence to the Arab village of Beit Umar, from which they were evacuated to Jerusalem by British mandate police. The British made no attempt to guard the settlement or safeguard property, and it was completely destroyed.

      Additional lands were purchased by the El Hahar Company, which founded a kibbutz called Kfar Etzion in 1934. Like Migdal Edder, Kfar Etzion was abandoned during the Arab violence of 1936-1939 and destroyed by the Palestinian Arabs.

      A third settlement attempt was made beginning in 1942 under the auspices of the Jewish National Fund (Keren Kayemet). Kfar Etzion was re-founded in the Spring of 1943. In October 1945, a second kibbutz, Massuot Yitzchak, was added. Its members were Holocaust survivors from Eastern and Central Europe. A third Kibbutz, Ein Tzurim, was founded in 1946 by Israeli members of the Bnei Akiva religious Zionist movement. All three kibbutzim belonged to the religious Zionist movement, but in February 1947, a fourth kibbutz, Revadim, was established by the Marxist Hashomer Hatzair Youth Movement. A young student visited these kibbutzim in October of 1947 and wrote of their enthusiasm and dedication

      Delete
    6. I don't know when you 'flipped' Rufus but you have been an ardent supporter of Israel while I have been reading you.

      Delete
  34. I am beginning to thinck that Obama’s going slowly and cautiously regarding ISIS will prove to be a stroke of genius. The arrogance and over the top slaughter and viciousness of ISIS is making no willing converts to their cause. The precision US military air response has augmented local ground forces who have both the need and demand for a unified support. ISIS has provided a wakeup call to reasonable people. There is a reasonable, silent and frightened majority in Islam. This policy by Obama, however derived, planned or slipped into may be the policy that works. Call me Dr. Pangloss, if you wish.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. perhaps me “thincks" too much

      Delete
    2. .

      Or the classic Mad Magazine exhortation, THIMK.

      .

      Delete
    3. Perhaps, we all do. After all, the most (only?) prosperous country in Europe, right now (Belgium,) is the country that hasn't had a functioning government for several years. :)

      Delete
  35. The news comes after U.S. warplanes conducted a fresh round of airstrikes ...

    Iraqi security forces, with the help of Shiite volunteers, broke a six-week siege by Islamic State militants on the northern Iraqi town of Amirli on Sunday, a day after U.S. airstrikes targeted the area.

    Iraqi forces entered the town Sunday, Army spokesman Lt. Gen. Qassim al-Moussawi said,
    adding the military suffered "some casualties." He said fighting was still ongoing in surrounding villages.

    "We thank God for this victory over terrorists," Nihad al-Bayati, who had taken up arms with fellow residents to defend the town, told The Associated Press by phone from the outskirts of Amirli.
    "The people of Amirli are very happy to see that their ordeal is over and that the terrorists are being defeated by Iraqi forces. It is a great day in our life."

    The community, located about 105 miles north of Baghdad, initially came under siege in June,
    but 15,000 Shiite Turkmen were able to hold off militants, who eventually surrounded the village in mid-July.

    "Today is a day of victory for Iraq and the resilient people of Amirli," retired Gen. Khaled al-Amerli, an Amerli resident and member of its self-defense force, told CNN.

    Turkmen lawmaker Fawzi Akram al-Tarzi said the military was disturbing aid to residents of Amirli, which is home to the Turkmen, an ethnic minority.

    The news comes after U.S. warplanes conducted a fresh round of airstrikes and emergency aid drops in Amirli

    ReplyDelete
  36. This is what has turned me.

    In my adulthood, I have gone from an ardent Israel supporter, to "agnostic" on the issue, to Palestinian supporter.

    The "drip, drip, drip" of Israeli thievery has become simply unbearable. I can’t even start to imagine what it would feel like if I were a Palestinian, or had Palestinian relatives.


    likewise.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I was a land for peace, live and let live guy for most of my life.

      I lobbied for Israel to quit gaza and give peace a chance.

      The drip, drip, drip of palestinian savagery, murders, stabbings, ied's, kidnapping, skyjackings and rocket launching has become simply unbearable.

      That is why I now do not support the idea of a 2 state solution.

      The gazans? Need to be incorporated into Egypt. The West bank arabs? Time to make a choice. Choose peace or destruction.

      Delete
  37. .

    Egypt is seeking to convert the M1A1 factory for civilian production of heavy equipment that could directly compete with U.S.-made heavy equipment.

    Don't try to confuse the rat with facts. He is still spouting off about Ghadafi having to be taken out because Russia was talking to Libya about opening up a naval facility there. He ignores the fact Russia was also talking with half a dozen other places around the world looking for the same thing but since Russia was about bankrupt in the mid-90's they hardly have what could be called a blue water navy to use the facilities.

    .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rat is a figment of your imaginationSun Aug 31, 12:17:00 PM EDT

      Let us know when the 'conversion' is done, Quirk.

      Not when it is a merely a matter of discussion.

      You let the kabuki dance of empty rhetoric cloud your own version of reality.
      Discussions for a "Two State Solution" are ongoing, somewhere.

      Delete
    2. Now, when the General Dynamics M1 contract expires, in 2016 ..
      I am sure that the industrial site, the buildings and such in Cairo, will be put to some other use.

      Doubt if the Egyptians would let it sit empty.

      Delete
    3. How long will the discussions be ongoing, before the Egyptians to develop some other "Land Use" for that industrial complex?

      How many options are there, for that site?

      Delete
    4. Truly, Quirk, for an automotive engineering marketing expert, like yourself, the prospects of that empty industrial space, must make your mouth water in anticipation of the 'higher and better use' of that General Dynamics facility ...
      ... than producing weapons of war.

      Delete
    5. My guess would be that it will be converted to production of the"new, improved M-2 tank."

      Delete
    6. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    7. Egyptian Army: 1,005 M1A1 tanks co-produced by the US and Egypt for the Egyptian army.
      Another 200 tanks have been ordered.


      You'd have to think that after General Dynamics delivered to the Egyptian 1,205 M1 Abrams Main Battle Tanks ....
      .... that would be enough.

      Or should they build more, Quirk?

      Delete
    8. Egyptian Army: 1,005 M1A1 tanks co-produced by the US and Egypt for the Egyptian army.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams#cite_note-88 [3][dead link]

      From the same page Foreign sales are also not certain to keep orders, as planned contracts from Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Iraq, and Egypt have been pushed back or are unknown.

      So no facts, just a wikipedia listing with no facts.

      Delete
    9. 1,200 A! Abrams main battle tanks, that is about the grand total for the number of tanks fielded on both sides, during the north Africa campaign in WWII. Much less if we discount the Stuarts and 'I' tank, those 425 "Light Tanks" the Brits had deployed.

      1,200 ... that ought to do the Egyptian's "Peace Time" needs, wouldn't you think, Quirk?

      Delete
    10. jackrat doesn't use actual facts, just selected bits of info....

      nothing he posts stands up to a contextual search.

      NOTHING

      Delete
    11. Jack HawkinsSun Aug 31, 12:45:00 PM EDT
      1,200 A! Abrams main battle tanks, that is about the grand total for the number of tanks fielded on both sides, during the north Africa campaign in WWII. Much less if we discount the Stuarts and 'I' tank, those 425 "Light Tanks" the Brits had deployed.
      1,200 ... that ought to do the Egyptian's "Peace Time" needs, wouldn't you think, Quirk?




      Typical Rat jack technic.

      When faced with the realty of his own lies he MISDIRECTS Changes the query or subject...

      Delete
    12. .... American M60A3 Patton and M1 Abrams tanks external link now make up the vast majority of Egypt’s fleet. The country began a co-production program for M1 Abrams tanks in 1988, which involves kit assembly in Egypt but outsources sensitive functions like adding the M1′s special armor. By 2007, this program had produced 880 tanks, a total that will rise to 1,130 M1 tanks as the latest contracts are fulfilled. This gives Egypt one of the globe’s largest M1 fleets.

      http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/egypt-847m-request-for-125-m1a1-tanks-03684/

      Delete
    13. yep, doesn't say a word about 2014

      all old news jackrat, try again.

      Delete
    14. Funny you still don't get it. You are full of nonsense and misdirection, lies and distortions

      in other words, you suck

      Do you like the HTML?

      Have you visited BOTH of my blogs

      did you get the messages?

      FUCK YOU RAT

      Delete
    15. 1,230 M1 Abrms tanks or 1,205 M1 Abrams tanks ....

      There are varied sources, varied claims.

      That General Dynamics has a contract to assemble M1 Abrams tanks in Cairo, YES.
      Did that facility shut down at anytime during the political 'strife' in Egypt? NO

      Is the contract almost fulfilled? YES

      Will that industrial site sit empty afterwards? Probably Not!

      Delete
    16. You want a reference to when the contract ends, that you find for yourself, I've known it so long ....

      I am not one of you instructors, "O"rdure.
      This is not one of your collegiate courses.

      Delete
    17. Jack HawkinsSun Aug 31, 12:55:00 PM EDT
      You want a reference to when the contract ends, that you find for yourself, I've known it so long ....

      I am not one of you instructors, "O"rdure.
      This is not one of your collegiate courses.



      LOL When trapped in a lie?

      Get INDIGNANT

      Delete
  38. Weeks ago, Jack Rat demanded I post on BOTH my blogs..

    I did, and waited and waited for Jack/Rat to admit he was WRONG but that is not part of a narcissist's behavior.

    When proven wrong? IGNORING the FACTS is modus operandi...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You never made those posts, never supplied links.

      You're a fraud.

      Delete
    2. You certainly know how to click on the name and follow the links..

      SO why do you act incapable of blog basics?

      You yourself brag about your prowess and your dozens signons..

      You don't need MY link, just click on the "what is "occupation" name of today and the "what is "occupation" with the map, which you cite all the time...

      FUCK YOU RAT

      Like a puppet on a string you dance....

      Delete
    3. You JUST hate to be wrong..

      It's destroyed your "world" view...

      LOL

      Do you like the HTML?

      DID you see the message on BOTH my blogs?

      FUCK YOU RAT

      Delete
    4. Rat is a figment of your imaginationSun Aug 31, 01:02:00 PM EDT

      .

      Delete
    5. Rat is still a figment of your imaginationSun Aug 31, 01:04:00 PM EDT

      And neither did anyone else

      Delete
    6. it's as close as a click for anyone who is interested

      If was YOUR DEMAND no one else's

      Delete
  39. Jack HawkinsSun Aug 31, 10:35:00 AM EDT
    The failure of the Israeli propaganda machine to advance, into the 21st century is observable, right here at the Elephant Bar.

    The three Zionists, the Israeli stooges ... Cannot utilize HTML.
    Either they are idiots and cannot learn the code, or their bosses at the Social Media Ministry will not allow it.


    FUCK YOU LOSER

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Brought in the next level of Social Media combatant, now, have we?

      Pissin' off the proctor

      Delete
    2. Jack HawkinsSun Aug 31, 01:05:00 PM EDT
      Har de har har


      NERVOUS LAUGHTER

      Delete
  40. Jack HawkinsSun Aug 31, 12:56:00 PM EDT
    You never made those posts, never supplied links.

    You're a fraud.



    So the truth hurts.... Jack Rat will not acknowledge the very proof he demanded....

    He stated that I was a fraud, and demanded I post on BOTH my blogs....

    I did...

    Now he cannot face the truth, that I am the original, I am the guy who actually called the AZ FBI on him for his threats, I am who I say I am...

    LOL

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nothing more needs to be said, Rat/Jack has been proven WRONG.

      PERIOD

      Delete
    2. Who?
      You got the whole class riled up, to make what point "O"rdure.
      Co-ordinated the disparate parts and still won't supply the links.

      Who ever said anyone ever looked at those blogs, "O"rdure?
      Al that was ever said, was that they were there, and YOU, could no aceess them.

      Now, after the committee approved, you 'make your move'.

      Never looked before, not lookin' now.

      You still be dancing on the string ...

      Delete
    3. wiggle wiggle wiggle...

      full of shit as usual rat...

      when faced with the facts?

      you crumble...

      Delete
    4. It's all about me!

      Wonderful Me!

      "O"rdure tells us so, it is what he writes about...

      Delete
    5. It's all about you...

      tell yourself, when you are alone, walking down the mountain trail...

      It's all about you..

      Narcissist

      Delete
  41. .

    Jack HawkinsSun Aug 31, 09:46:00 AM EDT

    The arm chair pacifists keep telling us that it will not work, while the successes keep rolling in.
    Where there are local forces ready, willing and able to advance, US close air support will make the difference, will be the deciding TACTICAL advantage that ensures the defeat of the ISIS on the ground.


    Once more, the rat lies and dissembles, unless he has changed his definition of 'arm chair pacifists'. Originally it only included Ash and Quirk. Perhaps he has expanded that group or perhaps he is just once again confused.

    None of the original 'arm-chair pacifists' have said 'it wouldn't work'. They said it wouldn't work without Iraqi ground troops to take and hold territory. They also said we should be wary of mission creep and that after the Mosul dam that the drip, drip, drip of mission creep had begun. They also laughed at the proposition that new whiz bang technology would create 'the greatest one-sided massacre in the history of warfare'. At least one of them said that to take the battle to IS and regain territory and towns lost to them it would probably take US troops on the ground.

    For this, the 'arm-chair pacifists' were accused by the 'arm-chair generals' of obsolete 20th Century thinking and encouraged to jump on the drone train.

    With a fleet of UAVs. Hellfire equipped Predator drones, over the battle space, the US can supply tactical close air support, providing a technological edge to our allies, without endangering a single US soldier.

    Ah, the vaunted rat Star Wars argument.

    As far as I know the US has been providing tactical close air support for the better part of a century. They have held the technological edge for most of the time since...what...the end of WWII. And perhaps the rat has failed to notice that US air support in Iraq so far involves more than just drones.

    However, the rat cites 'manless' drones as the 'game changer'. The problem is the enemy he chooses to illustrate his point. IS is ruthless, well-organized, well-led, well-financed, and bringing in new recruits on a regular basis. They have been described by many as a giant mafia-type gang. Their problem is they lack the equipment to fight a modern army in the open field. This is not Russia, China, Japan, North or South Korea the US is fighting in Iraq. It's highly unlikely IS will be taking down any planes with a 12.7 machine guns mounted on a Toyota. So far I have seen no reports of them having missiles, even hand-held ones, that can bring down a plane though this may change. IS options are limited when it comes to fighting air power. Yet, rat uses the battle with IS to make his point that we have reached a new stage in the art of war.

    The rat and others brag that the US and their drones have stopped the IS advance and are holding them at bay. True enough, but hell, Assad has been holding them at bay in Syria for a couple years using barrel bombs.

    This is a war against an insurgency like many others we've been involved in. We will for the most part be using weapons and tactics we have been using for decades. The expanded use of advanced technology weapons is a benefit for us but but it won't be the deciding factor.

    This despite what the little general says.

    .


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's the point, Quirk...

      It is not an Insurgency, not anymore.

      Insurgencies do not have "Front Lines".
      The salient reality you have missed, is that the ISIS evolved into a "State".
      It has borders and assets to defend.

      You'll see.

      Delete
    2. You are still thinking 'strategically', ideologically ...

      Thinking there has to be a 'solution'.

      When there will not be one.

      All that counts, is tactical control.

      And it is a long, long game.

      Delete
    3. When you were discussing the "Length of the Front" that would have to be defended by the Kurds ...

      That was the hint.
      The hint that things have changed

      Delete
    4. All true, Rat. I think that where Ash, and Quirk are messing up is that they are looking at the past, and present, and not at the future.

      One has to look at the various technologies involved, and evolving, in the "drone" era, and recognize "where they are heading."

      I'm thinking about faster computer chips, advanced optics, facial recognition, miniaturization, stealth, etc.

      Our present drones, though deadly against outfits such as ISIS, are crude prototypes of what is to come.

      Delete
    5. .

      More bullshit and straw men from the two generals.

      All true, Rat. I think that where Ash, and Quirk are messing up is that they are looking at the past, and present, and not at the future.

      Pure bullshit, Rufus. No one was talking about the future. No one was talking about it now until you just changed the subject. When this began, we were talking about Iraq, specifically Sindal mountain and Irbil and any expansion of the mission. If you wanted to bring up the future of of US air power you could have done it at any time and it would have been a different discussion. The discussion was about Iraq and it was about now not the future when you were talking about 10,000 dead men walking and the slaughter of the millennium.

      As for the rat, he doesn't address any of the issues I brought up in my post and instead trots out the straw man discussing tactics versus strategy. Moron.

      Tactics might apply when you are talking about a limited objective. Lifting the siege on Sindal mountain and Irbil would fall into that category. When you start discussing expanding those limited objectives it calls for strategy. Expansion of the humanitarian aid to other towns or population centers may be the beginning of a new strategy especially in light of your talk of IS being a state.

      ISIS changing its name to IS and claiming that it is a state doesn't make it a state. Though it would like to become a de facto state, it is nowhere near that level yet. It is a self-funding (at this point) terrorist organization. The closest it has come to taking on the trappings of an actual is in setting up a 'judicial' system. It gets its funds through theft, appropriation, ransom, and the operation of stolen oil fields. It has no formal banking system. While the territory it controls is large, there just aren't that many population centers. In the cities and towns they have taken they are struggling just to keep up basic services. The conquered populations under them are struggling just to get the basic necessities to survive.

      If they are to become a real functioning state, they will need to quickly get up to speed in providing all of the functions of a state. Otherwise, they will need to just keep expanding through conquest, something that is doubtful.

      If the US continues to expand its mission in Iraq, one possible strategy that might aid long term prospects against IS would be to concentrate heavily on humanitarian intervention so as to not only build good will amongst the population but also to deny IS any recruits from the many they have left homeless and penniless. Obviously, this strategy would be necessary but insufficient to actually defeat IS. It would take other strategies which I am content to leave up to the experts.

      Cut the friggin straw men and stick to the discussion at hand.

      .

      Delete
  42. Jack HawkinsSun Aug 31, 01:14:00 PM EDT
    That's the point, Quirk...
    It is not an Insurgency, not anymore.
    Insurgencies do not have "Front Lines".
    The salient reality you have missed, is that the ISIS evolved into a "State".
    It has borders and assets to defend.
    You'll see.



    Oh so now Jack Rat calls a "state" something that has assets and borders...

    But for years he argued that Israel was not a "state"

    Oh how the hypocrisy rules JackRat's brain

    ReplyDelete
  43. .

    Truly, Quirk, for an automotive engineering marketing expert, like yourself, the prospects of that empty industrial space, must make your mouth water in anticipation of the 'higher and better use' of that General Dynamics facility ...
    ... than producing weapons of war.


    In a sense yes. There is nothing productive about producing weapons. They have no value as capital such as a die or a mold, something that once produced can produce other goods whose 'value' goes way beyond its own, goods that improve the quality of life rather than reduce it. You use a bomb once and it is gone with the distinct possibility that in doing so you have wiped out a number of pieces of equipment that people could actually need.

    Of course, given our current system of nation states, there is a need for a certain level of defensive weapons. But how much is too much? Do we really need to spend hundreds of billions on weapon systems like the F-35? Does every police department need enough equipment and ammo to quell a civil war in a small South American country? Do we need to leave untold millions in usable equipment in the countries we conduct wars in because we don't have room to store it at home? Do we have to pony up $250 million in tax payer money for weapons for Israel, not because they needed the extra money but because we wanted to show solidarity with them on their war in Gaza?

    The evils of the MIC are as alive today, or more so, than when Ike pointed them out 60 years ago.

    .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Do we have to pony up $250 million in tax payer money for weapons for Israel, not because they needed the extra money but because we wanted to show solidarity with them on their war in Gaza?

      the 250 million was for defensive iron dome munitions. these saved many lives... lives of both sides.

      they are munitions, they do have costs. but they are not in the same category as offensive weapons. And the Obama administration did delay and or cancel Hellfire missiles in the middle of Israel's war with hamas showing far less solidarity with israel than the iron dome help.

      Delete
    2. .

      News reports and articles in various publications have mentioned that Israel already had over $300 million in aid for the same purpose scheduled for October and that the additional $250 million wasn't actually needed.

      .

      Delete
    3. regardless of the so called need, you and I don't KNOW the real need of the iron dome, especially when hezbollah and syria BOTH threatened to open up additional fronts..

      20 20 hindsight and all that

      Delete
  44. Is the F-35 necessary? Yes.

    Without it, we can't get to the "next" iteration.

    While it's foolish to run around the world, wasting money on every little pip, and squeak, that pops up, it's absolutely vital that we maintain the very highest capability military in the world. This orb still is, and always will be, a very dangerous place.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This orb still is, and always will be, a very dangerous place.


      just a few days ago you were telling us how you didn't care about one side or the other in the ME killing each other.

      Delete
    2. Yep, both statements are true.

      Delete
    3. .

      The cost/benefit analysis doesn't add up.

      .

      Delete
    4. It does if it keeps a major player, such as Russia, or China, from jumping on our ass.

      Delete
    5. .

      We've been through all the arguments before. I don't have time to start them all over again today.

      .

      Delete
  45. That Autonomous Drone, taking off, and landing itself on the deck of the carrier that Deuce posted the video of the other day, is a glimpse into the future.

    Stealthy, and autonomous.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1911 - Wright Brothers fly (kind of)

      2014 - Drone takes off, and lands itself on aircraft carrier

      Delete
    2. No articles on Drudge about ISIS defeat at Amerli.

      :)

      Suuprize, suuprize

      Delete
  46. Damn, Quirk, a little crotchety this morning, ain't we?

    Okay, let's state my position one more time:

    Those 10,000 headcutters are Dead Men Walking.

    They are Fucked. Toast. Past their expiry date.

    They will not be there, this time next year, and most of them will Not make it back to Syria. They are soon enough to be "ex-headcutters."

    As bad as the Iraqi Army is, they have two crucial advantages.

    1) Eventual Overwhelming Numbers, and

    2) Excellent Close Air Support

    ISIS has No Chance in Iraq.

    They are over-extended, spread out, with only as many reinforcements as we decide to "let in," and completely vulnerable from the air.

    They are, to use a technical, military term, a Joke.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. .

      I am not crotchety at all.

      As noted above, you bring in straw men and distort mine and Ash's positions and then expect me to sit there and accept your absurdities.

      I could give a shit what your position is now.

      Rat started it today with is lies about what the 'arm-chair pacifists' had to say. And then when I respond and he tries to change the subject you jump in with a bunch of bullshit about the future of US aviation that had nothing to do with the subject we were discussing, you know, the one you just outlined your position on.

      .

      Delete
    2. Quirk, I can't help it if you can't see capabilities, such as our drones', on a continuum, but only is snapshots.

      You keep referring to air support as being "nothing new," as something that we've done for 100 years, etc.

      But, what you are seeing, now, IS New.

      Drones acting as "lasers" for high-flying, fast movers is very new. It changes the game, significantly.

      Delete
    3. I think you're just mad because you thought Obama was in a trap, and he seems to be escaping.

      Delete