This laser-armed drone could blow fighter jets out of the sky
An Air Force officer proposes a robot fighter with minimal human control
By Michael Peck, War is Boring | 9:33am ET
Here's an idea for an awesome dogfighting aircraft. Make it small, light, and fast. Build it out of materials that are hard to detect on radar. Even give it a laser cannon.
Oh, and don't put a human in the cockpit. In fact, don't even closely tie the drone to human ground control. Because in an aerial knife fight, a computer-controlled machine will beat a human pilot.
That's the idea behind a controversial proposal by U.S. Air Force captain Michael Byrnes, an experienced Predator and Reaper drone pilot. Byrnes is calling for the development of a robotic dogfighter, which he calls the FQ-X, that could blow manned fighters out of the sky.
"A tactically autonomous, machine-piloted aircraft … will bring new and unmatched lethality to air-to-air combat," Byrnes writes in Air and Space Power Journal.
In Byrnes' conception, machines have the edge in making the lightning-fast decisions necessary to win a close-quarters aerial battle. "Humans average 200 to 300 milliseconds to react to simple stimuli, but machines can select or synthesize and execute maneuvers, making millions of corrections in that same quarter of a second," he writes.
Byrnes focuses on famed fighter pilot John Boyd's classic observe-orient-decide-act decision cycle — the "OODA loop" — which predicts that victory in combat belongs to the warrior who can assess and respond to conditions fastest.
Like a fighter pilot trying to out-turn his opponent in a dogfight, the trick to OODA is quickly making the right decisions while your enemy is still trying to figure out what's going on.
It's a battle of wits in which computers are superior, according to Byrnes. "Every step in OODA that we can do, they will do better."
Byrnes envisions a drone designed from the start to utilize the full potential of an unmanned dogfighter. The FQ-X would be constructed of advanced, difficult-to-detect "metamaterials." It would have extremely powerful computers that could determine an enemy aircraft's position from even the scantest of sensor data.
"The principle of 'first look, first kill' belongs to the aircraft with the most processing power and the best software to leverage it," Byrnes writes.
The FQ-X would also have multispectral optics and computer vision software that would enable it to distinguish friendly from enemy aircraft. The drone would pack a laser or a cannon firing armor-piercing incendiary rounds.
To sweeten the robot's victory, on-board machine-learning systems would analyze the encounter and transmit tips to other combat drones.
It should be pretty obvious we're not talking about some plodding, prop-driven Predator drone being steered by humans sitting in a trailer in Nevada, but rather a fast- and high-flying robot jet that functions without much need for human guidance.
"With FQ-X, autonomy for the conduct of the engagement would return to the air vehicle to take advantage of its superior processing speed and reaction times," Byrnes proposes.
But there's a tension in robotic warfare between the machines' incredible speed and lethality and we human beings' natural desire for direct control. Inserting a man into the loop inevitably limits a drone's potential.
Without human control, we effectively grant robots licenses to kill.
Byrnes suggests breaking a dogfighting drone's actions into different phases, including searching, stalking, closure, capture, and kill. Operator control would vary with the phase. And in the heat of direct combat, when milliseconds matter, the robot calls most of the shots.
It's a bold proposal — one the Air Force as a whole has showed little interest in pursuing. Only the Navy has openly discussed adding air-to-air missiles to jet-powered drones. Considering the bureaucratic resistance, Byrnes worries that the flying branch could eventually have no choice but to borrow dogfighting robot technology from the sea service.
"Aviators may dislike it, the public will question it, science fiction imagines harbingers of the Cylon apocalypse, and we are uncertain about how to best utilize it within the context of a larger Air Force," he writes. "Nevertheless, the FQ-X concept is too dangerous to our current thinking to ignore forever."
From drones to AKs, high technology to low politics, War is Boring. explores how and why we fight above, on, and below an angry world. Sign up for its daily email update here or subscribe to its RSS Feed here.
In an interview with the Guardian, Barazani, chancellor of the Kurdistan region security council, has implored the British public not to allow fatigue from more than 10 years of war to stop support for the Kurds in what is fast shaping up to be the biggest threat to Iraqi Kurdish society since the collapse of the Ottoman empire almost 100 years ago.
ReplyDeleteHe said: “In terms of drawing the lines [the regional borders], the UK had the greatest role in the creation of the modern Middle East. Now is not the time to say it is not our problem. I would like Britain to remember that we are not Helmand, or Basra, we are your friends.”
Mentioning the British-French agreement that enshrined the modern states of Lebanon and Syria, and led to the creation of Iraq’s borders, he added: “For how long do the Kurds have to pay the price of the mistakes that were made? We are victims of Sykes Picot. For how long do we have to be held hostage, or to be vulnerable?
- GUARDIAN
Empire comes with a steep price and a very long expiration date.
ReplyDeleteThe Supply Side Nightmare ....
ReplyDeleteWages in U.S. down 23 percent since 2008, report shows
http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2014/08/wages_in_us_down_23_percent_si.html
Don't get caught doing 20th Century thinking.
ReplyDeleteA lot of the old bromides will no longer apply.
I think that what has Quirk, and Ash confused is that they, or any of the rest of us, have never seen a campaign even remotely like the one that's shaping against the ISIS.
Those drones are so cheap, and so effective, that we should have the skies over Iraq flooded with them, by now.
The Top Military Brass that have dragged their feet on this technology should be put out to pasture without a pension.
I was actually thinking about some slightly more severe punishments that involved, among other things, nuts, anvils, and ball peen hammers, but . . . . . . . . .
DeleteNow, this
DeleteWASHINGTON—The U.S. military is exploring plans for an international rescue mission to save thousands of desperate Yazidi refugees trapped by Sunni militants in a barren northern Iraqi mountain range, U.S. officials said Tuesday.
While the proposal is still under development, U.S. officials said the military is considering staging a dangerous rescue operation that could for the first time put American troops in direct confrontation with a militant group calling itself the Islamic State.
Any plan would have to be approved by President Barack Obama. U.S. officials said the rescue mission is one of many options the U.S. military is weighing after dropping food and water to dying refugees for the past six days.
"People are looking at ways to do something more than just drop water and supplies," said one senior U.S. official. "You can only do that for so long."
is where Ash, and Quirk, are, unfortunately, liable to be vindicated.
There are Powerful forces in the Military, and Media, also, that really want to get American Troops back on the ground over there.
The sight of Iraqi, or Kurd, troops walking into town, gingerly stepping over ex-IS bodies, recently perished by Drone Poisoning, doesn't sell much soap.
DeleteAnd, it don't do dick for promotions.
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DeleteThanks, General.
I'll try to make you next seminar over at the War College.
:o)
.
War college?? I think his arm chair us in the living room.
DeleteNew York Times - 11 minutes ago
ReplyDeleteWASHINGTON - The Pentagon has sent an additional 130 military advisers to northern Iraq to help plan the evacuation of thousands of displaced people trapped by Sunni militants on Mount Sinjar, Defense Department officials said Tuesday, raising the ...
The Kurds are showing videos of rescued Yazidi walking down the mountain, and riding away, while the Pentagon completely ignores, even denies, that it is happening. That. Is. Troubling.
ReplyDeleteIt appears that the Military is trying to orchestrate a giant photo-op of American/British/French/whoever Troops "Rescuing" the dying Yazidi (before moving on to The Next "Rescue" Mission.)
Those dirty bastards really, really want back in.
Or, maybe their definition of "rescue" is to take back the towns. Which makes some sense. After all, a lot (most?) of the Yaz are still there, right? And, undoubtably, undergoing terrible treatment.
DeleteIn that scenario, most of that 130 "advisors" would be Forward Air Controllers, Electronics/Communications Experts, Interpreters, etc. I'll bet they're going to make it more interesting than it needs to be, though. :)
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ReplyDeleteChina Seeks to Nationalize Christianity
If they can't eliminate Christianity, they intend to co-opt it.
“The construction of Chinese Christian theology should adapt to China’s national condition and integrate with Chinese culture,” Wang Zuoan, director of the State Administration for Religious Affairs, said at a Shanghai forum on the “Sinicization of Christianity,” according to Chinese state media.
Gu Mengfei, deputy secretary-general of the the Three-Self Patriotic Movement — a state-sanctioned umbrella organization for Protestant churches — elaborated on the initiative. “This will encourage more believers to make contributions to the country’s harmonious social progress, cultural prosperity and economic development,” Gu said.
It’s not clear from the report exactly what changes the government plans to make to its policy on Christianity. A crackdown of some sort on Christianity is almost certain, however. The Chinese government already places a number of restrictions on religion. All churches, for example, are required to register with the government. They operate under close government scrutiny, with all legal Protestant churches belonging to the state-sanctioned umbrella organizations, the Three-Self Patriotic Movement and the China Christian Council, and the Catholic churches belonging to the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association.
Through these organizations, both Protestant and Catholic churches in China are already required to practice Christianity with Chinese characteristics, to some degree. For example, Catholics are not allowed to recognize the authority of the Vatican. Meanwhile, as the name implies, the Three-Self Patriotic Movement — which long predates the establishment of the People’s Republic of China — has Chinese nationalism at its core. The Three-Selfs are the three principles of self-support (financial independence from foreigners), self-leadership/governance and self-propagation (indigenous missionary work).
Nonetheless, the officials’ comments last week indicate that the Chinese Communist Party intends to further tighten its grip over Christianity. There are a number of possible targets and motivations for the crackdown...
http://thediplomat.com/2014/08/why-is-china-nationalizing-christianity/
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Following the Roman example, it is a historically proven method of control.
DeleteEITHER THE U.S. DEFEATS ISIS, OR IRAN DOES
ReplyDeleteNabeel Khoury
August 11, 2014
(http://www.aucegypt.edu/GAPP/CairoReview/Pages/articleDetails.aspx?aid=637)
The U.S. invasion of Iraq and subsequent dismantlement of Saddam Hussein’s regime created a vacuum at the center of the Gulf and the Arab world. Now many regional forces, governmental and otherwise, have entered the fray. Ironically, the departure of U.S. troops from Iraq in 2014 has created an even more dangerous vacuum.
Back in 2003, Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) was the most threatening player for Iraq, the region, and the United States. Of the several state actors empowered by the U.S. invasion, Iran was the most powerful and most antagonistic to U.S. and Western interests in the Middle East. When American forces departed from Iraq, they left behind a weak military, a political stalemate, and an even larger void into which the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) has stepped in. The armed movement is potentially more dangerous than anything that preceded it in the past ten years. The Obama administration’s current efforts against ISIS are of a tactical nature and will not serve to defeat or dislodge it from the areas it now occupies.
Under current conditions in Iraq, the airstrikes ordered by President Obama are, by the admission of the administration, a stop-gap measure with limited goals: to stop the advance of ISIS forces on Erbil, home of the U.S.-favored Kurdish forces and site of a U.S. consulate housing diplomats, along with civilian and military advisors, and to provide humanitarian relief to a beleaguered group of Yazidis sheltering on a mountain top from ISIS fighters surrounding them. Sustained airstrikes may indeed slow the advance of ISIS on Erbil, an advance that was itself an unlikely and tactically unsound move on the part of the Islamist group. Likewise, though more difficult, the delivering humanitarian relief to the Yazidis—one of the many minority ethnic and religious groups living in Iraq for centuries and holding, in this case, Zoroastrian beliefs considered heretic by the fundamentalist Islamists of ISIS—is also quite feasible. The realties on the ground, however, are unlikely to be altered in the near term. ISIS’s advance toward Erbil, likely a move to put the Kurdish forces on the defensive, should be easy enough to stop. Strategically, however, the likely next step for ISIS is to hold and consolidate its control of northwestern Iraq and prepare for further expansion southward and westward in Syria, and southward in Iraq at a more convenient moment for their forces.
(...)
{...}
DeleteEven though the ideology of Al-Qaeda and that of ISIS’s are almost identical, indications are that ISIS is a more potent, and therefore more dangerous, organization than AQI. As lethal as the latter was, it remained an underground movement engaged in random acts of violence and terrorism that did not lead to any gains on the ground for the organization and its supporters. ISIS, by contrast, is acting very strategically, conquering territory and amassing the means to hold, consolidate, and possibly advance further into the Levant region. ISIS has further established a rudimentary system of government and is threatening to spread its control to the rest of the Islamic world. To back this rhetoric, ISIS has assembled a large army, recruiting heavily in the region and internationally. Inside Iraq, the organization has shown signs of having learnt from the mistakes of its predecessor, AQI, which alienated the Sunni community and lost its tribal leaders to coalition forces and the central government of Iraq.
ISIS’s sweep through northwestern Iraq has thus far been facilitated by the acquiescence of the Sunni population and the active participation of tribal forces against the Maliki government. Whereas AQI depended on funding from individual patrons from Iraq and the Gulf, ISIS appears to be self-funded. The organization has robbed banks; they have hijacked petrol trucks, oil refineries and, more recently, oil wells, to fund and arm themselves. ISIS has also cleverly taken over military bases in Syria and Iraq, gaining heavy weaponry in the process, notably armored vehicles and tanks. With the Iraqi army having hastily fled from major cities in the north, valuable American equipment is now in the hands of ISIS fighters, including possibly Abrams tanks. In the areas under its control, ISIS has called back to duty oil workers, engineers, and technicians to keep oil and water facilities operational and has apparently managed to sell oil and profit from it.
{...}
{...}
DeleteCrucially, ISIS has been building credibility, not only in its successes on the battlefield, but also in terms of adherence to its belief in the Levant as its natural base of operation. The organization has therefore connected areas under its control across the Syria-Iraq border, has tried to extend its control to Lebanon, and developed a support base in Jordan. ISIS is particularly sensitive to the question, What have you done for Palestine lately? Propaganda on social media networks has broadcasted answers, saying that it is not possible to liberate Jerusalem until Shia forces have been defeated. ISIS public affairs operatives have used examples from wars the Prophet Mohammed fought against internal enemies and wars Saladin fought against the crusaders to justify its decision to delay confrontation with Israel for the time being.
Starting from its points of origin inside Iraq, ISIS gained strength and notoriety in Syria, taking full advantage of the prolonged chaos and power vacuum there. The Obama administration’s neglect to follow through on pronouncements that “Assad must go,” and failure to support the secular opposition in Syria at a time when the Islamist forces were either weak or non-existent, were instrumental in the growth of ISIS. The belated deliveries of small arms to the Free Syria Army (FSA) in 2013 and $500 million in lethal aid were too little too late. In a three-way race between the regime, Islamists, and the FSA, Syria’s so-called ‘moderate’ rebels are the weakest. The regime, bolstered by direct assistance from Iran and Hezbollah, has consolidated its hold on the third of the country adjacent to the Lebanese border, the Mediterranean, and encompassing most of the urban areas of the country. ISIS and the Islamist Nusra Front have between them taken over most of the rest of the country.
There are no good options for the U.S. administration at this point, only bad and worse ones. Any counter-offensive to dislodge ISIS would have to include large forces on the ground, something the president has ruled out. This leaves two options for Washington: Take a deep breath, hunker down, and focus on a long term project to arm and train Kurdish forces, hopefully in collaboration with what’s left of the Iraqi army. The long delayed adoption of the FSA would be a natural part of this strategy.
Washington’s failure to lead in these efforts will leave only one other option, which is to step aside and let Iran and Hezbollah take the responsibility for ousting ISIS, and therefore take credit and full control of Iraq after the fight is done.
Nah, those are dead men walking. If the Iraqi government decides to get serious, and meet our criteria (partner up with the kurds,) all they'll have to do is send a few hundred men over to the Syrian border, and retake those two border crossings, and then, leisurely use the assholes for target practice until they've all gone to meet their virgins (or, raisins, or whatever.)
DeleteIt could be one of the greatest one-sided massacres in the history of warfare.
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DeleteBack in 2003, Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) was the most threatening player for Iraq...
There wasn't an AQI until 2004 and they were merely a nit until the US invasion provided the perfect breeding ground for their radical activities.
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That is the scenario that Doc Z laid out ...
DeleteThat by claiming the Caliphate and consolidating the Jihadist forces, they would be easily targeted by the US air power.
Nabeel Khoury is Senior Fellow for Middle East and National Security at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs. He previously served as Deputy Chief of Mission in Yemen (2004-2007), Deputy Director of the Media Outreach Centre in London (2002-2004), and Consul General in Morocco (1998-2002). In 2003, during the Iraq war, he served as State Department spokesperson at U.S. Central Command in Doha and in Baghdad.
ReplyDeleteI am afraid Nabeel Khoury is more right than wrong:
ReplyDelete...There are no good options for the U.S. administration at this point, only bad and worse ones. Any counter-offensive to dislodge ISIS would have to include large forces on the ground, something the president has ruled out. This leaves two options for Washington: Take a deep breath, hunker down, and focus on a long term project to arm and train Kurdish forces, hopefully in collaboration with what’s left of the Iraqi army. The long delayed adoption of the FSA would be a natural part of this strategy.
Washington’s failure to lead in these efforts will leave only one other option, which is to step aside and let Iran and Hezbollah take the responsibility for ousting ISIS, and therefore take credit and full control of Iraq after the fight is done.
Nah, Deuce, he's dead wrong. This could be the greatest shooting gallery in the history of warfare.
DeleteSo far ISIS has been about as opportunistic an army as any professional commanding officer could wish for. I would not underestimate their ability to further adapt. I would expect that they are going to stay real tight to their civilian captives and make it very expensive in casualties.
DeleteYou've got 10,000 psychopathic assholes spread out over 20,000 sq miles of desert with no place to run, and no place to hide. If the idiot Iraqis will get their heads out of their asses, and play nice, thus bringing in our air assets, this should be the slaughter of the millennium.
DeleteTime is on the good guys side, here. No need to hurry. Just fly those drones around, pick off twenty or thirty a day, and eat barbeque, and drink beer. No worries, mate.
DeleteThe Cairo Review is available online at www.thecairoreview.com.
ReplyDeleteEditorial Board
David D. Arnold, president of the Asia Foundation; Lakhdar Brahimi, former under-secretary general of the United Nations; Prince Turki Al-Faisal, chairman of the board of the King Faisal Center for Research and Islamic Studies and former Saudi ambassador to the United States and to the United Kingdom; Nabil Fahmy, dean, School of Global Affairs and Public Policy, American University in Cairo (chairman); Hassan Heikal, CEO of EFG Hermes; Walter Isaacson, president and CEO of the Aspen Institute; Rami G. Khouri, director of the Issam Fares Institute for Public Policy and International Affairs at the American University of Beirut; Daniel C. Kurtzer, professor at the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs, Princeton University,and former U.S. ambassador to Egypt and Israel; Marwan Muasher, vice president for studies at the Carnegie Endowment and former deputy prime minister ofJordan; Lubna S. Olayan, CEO of Olayan Financing Co.; David B. Ottaway, fellow at the Woodrow Wilson Center for International Scholars; Thomas R. Pickering, former deputy U.S. Secretary of State for Political Affairs; Naguib Sawiris, executive chairman of Orascom Telecom Holding SAE; Mark Suzman, director of policy, advocacy and special initiatives, Global Development Program, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation; Mervat Tallawy, former under-secretary general of the United Nations and Egyptian ambassador to Japan and Austria.
Depends upon who is really in command of the Iraqi Army.
ReplyDeleteWho will be in command of the Iraqi Army.
Whether the Iraqi Army ends up ruling Iraq, or .... Iraq falls apart.
Hamas Wins, Israel Loses !
ReplyDeleteHaaretz - 1 hour ago
Egyptian sources say a more permanent cease-fire could be signed as early as Wednesday; 'the debate is mainly over the wording,' says source.
According to a Palestinian source, Hamas is insisting on a complete end to the blockade of Gaza rather than a mere easing of it, which he termed “a more comfortable occupation.”
DeleteThe Egyptian mediators are trying to find a formula that will satisfy both Israel and Hamas.
“The debate is mainly over the wording, not over the fundamental positions,” the source said. Hamas has agreed to allow representatives of the Palestinian Authority to be stationed on the Gaza side of the border crossings, but it rejects any limitations on the entry of construction materials like cement and steel, which are needed to repair the damage caused by the war. Israel, however, is concerned that Hamas would use such materials to rebuild its network of attack tunnels rather than for civilian purposes.
Well, if that's what "winning" looks like, Hamas better hope that they never Lose a war.
DeleteHamas's survival equals victory, that was the position of WiO and allen.
DeleteThey were correct, about that salient point.
If the Blockade is lifted and the airport reopened...
DeleteThe political goals of Hamas will have been obtained.
Israel, the acknowledged loser, so acknowledged by WiO and allen.
"How Sweet It Is!"
.
DeleteIf the Blockade is lifted and the airport reopened...
:o)
And if pigs had wings...
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Hamas's survival equals victory, that was the position of WiO and allen.
DeleteThey were correct, about that salient point.
No, what we said was if one MAC iPad was left working in Gaza, those that hate Israel would claim victory.
If not, then there is no Cease Fire.
DeleteAnd the Israeli will be forced to fire on a NATO Navy, and then Turkey will demand Article 5 & 6 of the NATO Treaty be applied to the aggressor nation, Israel.
DeleteTo the Kurds of Iraq’s north, the sight of their vaunted peshmerga troops in full retreat nine days ago was difficult to reconcile.
ReplyDeleteFor decades the peshmerga had been the force they could depend on to keep their territory safe and keep alive their dreams of autonomy.
But in one humiliating weekend, the Kurdish forces were chased back to Irbil by an enemy that has now turned its attention and guns on everything the Kurds have built during decades of war with Saddam Hussein, then the US-led invasion, and eight years of enmity with Iraq's central government, when many in the north turned inwards and quietly got rich.
In the days since the Islamic State (Isis) started storming towards Irbil on 3 August, the peshmerga has faced a reckoning. To many Kurdish officials, some peshmerga units seem built on past glories rather than current capabilities.
Several senior officials fear that Iraq's most formidable military is over-stretched as it tries to combat Isis jihadists over a 600 mile frontline.
Others say training has not kept up with demands and that the reserve force of men who have fought various campaigns have never before faced such a formidable foe.
"We have very brave peshmerga," said Masrour Barazani, chancellor of the Kurdish region security council. "But they were outgunned," he said of the clashes that led to them withdrawing from the minority areas that have now been overrun. "They had worn out light machine guns. We don't have any armaments to counter what Isis is carrying."
A flush of weapons delivered by the US on Monday has eased immediate fears of light arms shortages. But the new rifles and bullets are no match for the heavy weaponry carried by Isis, most of which was also supplied by the US – to the Iraqi military during the nine-year occupation.
Much of those heavy weapons, including tanks, humvees, troop carriers and artillery pieces were seized by Isis when the Iraqi Army abandoned all its bases in the Arab north of the country in mid-June.
The enormous arsenal has given Isis an added potency that continues to startle the Kurds and expose the limitations of their military and political power.
"I don't care if we get tanks from the devil," said Manzer Jalal, a volunteer Kurdish fighter and former peshmerga member on a frontline near Irbil this week. “We will fight them with whatever it takes, but I don't mind telling you how happy I am about the US jets."
GUARDIAN
Now, about that 600 mile frontline:
DeleteThere are 6.2 Million Iraqi Kurds.
There are 10,000 ISIL assholes - and, they're stretched all the way from Syria, to Mosul, to Fallujah, and twenty or so other cities in between.
According to Wiki there are 200,000 Peshmerga.
DeletePeshmerga
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ReplyDeleteNah, those are dead men walking. If the Iraqi government decides to get serious, and meet our criteria (partner up with the kurds,) all they'll have to do is send a few hundred men over to the Syrian border, and retake those two border crossings, and then, leisurely use the assholes for target practice until they've all gone to meet their virgins (or, raisins, or whatever.)
It could be one of the greatest one-sided massacres in the history of warfare.
---------------------------------
Nah, Deuce, he's dead wrong. This could be the greatest shooting gallery in the history of warfare.
---------------------------------
You've got 10,000 psychopathic assholes spread out over 20,000 sq miles of desert with no place to run, and no place to hide. If the idiot Iraqis will get their heads out of their asses, and play nice, thus bringing in our air assets, this should be the slaughter of the millennium.
----------------------------
Time is on the good guys side, here. No need to hurry. Just fly those drones around, pick off twenty or thirty a day, and eat barbeque, and drink beer. No worries, mate.
Easy peasy.
I luvs da smell of unbridled confidence in the morning.
:ol
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I'm just seeing what I see, Quirk. And, I see apples bobbing in a barrel.
DeleteI can't imagine a "commander" leading his troops into a worse situation.
Good ole "slam dunk" Rufus! His view is clear as day this evening from his arm chair.
DeleteDuring the course of the Gulf War, 277 AH-64s took part, destroying more than 500 Iraqi tanks and suffering just one loss.
ReplyDeleteThe Apache can carry up to 16 Hellfire laser designated missiles.
the Predator carries cameras and other sensors but has been modified and upgraded to carry and fire two AGM-114 Hellfire missiles ...
Hamas Wins, Israel Loses !
ReplyDeleteHaaretz - 1 hour ago
Egyptian sources say a more permanent cease-fire could be signed as early as Wednesday; 'the debate is mainly over the wording,' says source.
LOL
Really?
LOL
Dont bet on it...
In fact, I am waiting for the next round of Hamas rockets to start hitting Israel in about 2-3 hours.
Hamas fires a rocket, Hamas wins.
DeleteHamas survives and that means Israel is the loser, as judged by the WiO Standard.
The very fact that Israel is in Cairo, negotiating, makes Israel the loser.
DeleteHamas has gained legitimacy and has not been destroyed, root and branch.
Hamas wins.
LOL
ditto
DeleteThe vaunted IDF unable to take out some rag-tag insurgents ....
ReplyDeleteIsrael lost in Lebanon, has lost twice in Gaza.
Hezbollah has grown into a regional force.,
Hamas has gained legitimacy,
Israel had its airport closed.
Double down on that ditto
DeleteAccording to the Hamas lovers Hamas has won.
DeleteAccording to the people of Gaza? Hamas are FEARED more than the IDF.
Hundreds of children, executed by Hamas that were used as slave labor to build terror tunnels.
The real big win?
the full discovery and destruction of the terror tunnels and the disruption of the Hamas plan to put 10,000 terrorists inside Israel for a mass murder/kidnapping on Rosh Hashanah.
Hamas lost about 900 of it's fighters. Hamas lost all it's tunnels on the egypt side and on the Israel side.
IRan was silent for the last month, Hezbollah, silent.
Only Qatar and Turkey did any yelling...
But the entire Sunni Arab world? Wanted Hamas to be punished...
Israel lost???? hardly...
I'd say the palestinians once again lost the most...
It is not a question of who lost the most, it is a question of who WON the most.
DeleteAnd that would be Hamas.
The cost of that victory, negligible.
A few hundred dead, less than 0.01 percent of their population.
And Israel is seen as an aggressor, a tyrant an illegitimate apartheid state by more and more people across the Western World.
Israel is seen through jaundiced eyes. There has been an unprecedented moral inversion, illustrating the power of a noxious idea to seep from the ideological fringe to the mainstream.
The United States is not yet down to one pro-Israel party. But the seepage among Democrats continues. At the 2012 Democratic convention, a fight erupted over the deletion from the party’s platform of standard language acknowledging Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. It took an order from the White House to restore the pro-Israel clause, and even then it had to be gaveled through over the vocal opposition of half the convention delegates.
Not long ago, such a hostile gesture would have been unthinkable. Now, with each new poll confirming Democratic chilliness toward the Jewish state Democrats once loved, can it be anything but a precursor of worse to come?
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/07/21/israel-democrats-are-losing-their-moral-clarity/0Mx4k2WoZfyVhdCtEObP6O/story.html
Jeff Jacoby | Globe Columnist July 21, 2014
DeleteLOL
Delete.01 percent of the population and just a few days ago you were talking about "genocide"
LOL
Genocide is not determined by the death toll, but by the goals of the perpetrator.
Delete.
DeleteSurely, you don't expect consistency from the rat.
The habitual liar's biggest problem is trying to keep track of his own lies.
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Should we define "Genocide", again?
DeleteNot a problem ... It is not based upon the death count, but other factors as well
"Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
To claim that the Palestinians are not a "real" people, is a form of genocide.
Now that the Israeli are committing genocide under Section C of Article II is obvious.
DeleteEgyptian Army forces celebrating the Hamas victory over Israel decided to destroy a large store of Hamas's missiles in central Sinai using airstrikes. Sources confirmed to Masrawy that the information received by the security services, confirmed the smuggling of large quantities of Grad and Katyusha missiles through the tunnels, stored in an abandoned house on the outskirts of the village of Wadi Al-Amr in central Sinai.
ReplyDeleteEgyptian helicopters bombed the missile storage and a car transport loaded with rockets, killing two Hamas members.
The government of Egypt sent a congratulations telegram to the Hamas on their victory over the IDF and requested Hamas to continue to allow Egypt to blow up Hamas's rockets and kill their fighters as it was an uplifting event...
In another Hamas victory over the IDF, Egyptian security forces seized today (Tuesday) in northern Sinai a launcher with three Grad rockets that were ready to be launched into Israel. State security officials told the site Al Masry al Youm that according to intelligence officials the plan was for radical Islamists (ISIS/Hamas) to shoot the rockets to Israel from the launcher located south of Rafah. According to the source, the rockets have been smuggled through tunnels from Gaza to Sinai, and Egyptian forces now surround the area.
ReplyDeletePizza and KFC was given to all the Hamas members killed as a tribute to their success against Israel. It was reported that the pizza and KFC was in fact eaten by the Egyptians all the while congratulating the dead ISIS/Hamas terrorists on their victory...
Palestinian Columnist: Hamas Did Not Win The War, Only Brought Suffering Upon Gazans
ReplyDeleteIn an August 7, 2014 article titled "We Did Not Win," which was posted on the Amad.ps website, Palestinian columnist Dalia Al-'Afifi challenged Hamas' claim that it won the Gaza war. She wrote that Hamas had shown ignorance of Israel's rationale, had caused innumerable losses and damage to the Palestinians, and had erred in rejecting the Egyptian initiative. She added that the immense destruction in Gaza cannot be called a victory by any standards, and that Hamas' tactics are not likely to bring about an improvement in the Gazans' living conditions, not to mention promote the larger political goals of the Palestinian people.
"There is no doubt that this [current] Israeli aggression against the Gaza Strip is different in all its forms, methods and contents, and even in the scope of the losses on both sides, from all the previous wars and intifadas that occurred in the course of the Israel-Arab conflict... The main Palestinian side that is leading the field campaign against the oppressive Israeli aggression in the present stage is the Hamas movement, and all it represents as the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood [MB]. It was [Hamas] that led the campaign, even if the Islamic Jihad movement played a prominent role as well, and so did the other armed factions and elements, to some extent.
"The strange thing is that Hamas showed considerable ignorance of the rationale of the fascist Israel, and failed to understand many things. True, Hamas made some military achievements on the ground and achieved considerable success in terms of public morale. But it failed in the political management of the campaign, due to several reasons, [including] its views as a party and futile calculations [stemming from] its understanding of the power [relations] in the region – which inevitably caused the Palestinians to pay dearly in lives and [damage to] property.
"The immense losses suffered by the Palestinians in lives and [damage to] property, whose tragic results are currently difficult to delimit or assess, prove that partisan interests largely overshadowed the interests of the Gazan public. Had Hamas' various branches and political and military leaders understood the Palestinians' living conditions in the last seven years, we would not have reached this situation [and suffered] these tragic casualties... mostly among children and elderly people – the highest number [of casualties in the history] of the Palestinian problem, even higher than in the two intifadas.
"Of course, some will say that this is the price of the homeland and of liberty. It is a price that the Palestinians have indeed been paying for 66 years, or for the last 100 years – but never has the number of losses been so high. Hamas could have inflicted pain on the enemy without bringing such a humanitarian catastrophe upon the Gazans, had it understood from the start the decisive significance of the Egyptian initiative and negotiated to improve the terms [of the ceasefire] and to achieve the legitimate humanitarian demands that it placed at the top of its list, namely ending the oppressive aggression and lifting the unjust siege. [Instead,] it regarded the Gazans and their concerns as [mere] ciphers...
Delete"As a people under occupation, we Palestinians have the right to employ every kind of resistance sanctioned by international law in order to end this hated occupation. But there is [such a thing as] responsibility and delicate considerations, which resistance movements must place at the head of their priority-lists and calculations. Such tremendous destruction in a tiny area like Gaza... cannot be viewed as a victory, even had the Palestinians agreed among themselves about all their terms and demands, [a goal] they have not yet achieved. [Now] we will have an unconditional ceasefire, followed by a longer ceasefire which will eventually deprive Gaza of its ability to act – as though the objective of all the bloodshed and all the terrible suffering was to find a formula for improving the living conditions and the livelihood of the Gazans. [It seems that] the greatest demand and aspiration of the resistance is to lift the siege from Gaza, without linking this to any political demands regarding the [Palestinians'] national rights and principles. As we feared, [the hostilities] are likely to abate and end like this, without any of the Gazan's rights having been realized.
"Where is Hamas leading?... Will the ceasefire be renewed again and again, while rigid negotiations take place that will not yield much in terms of [realizing] the demands that were set? Or will we go back to pouring oil on the fire and beating the war drums, which will not change the equation but [only] take us back to square one?!
"Furthermore, we cannot ignore the fact that Egypt made every effort, in every way, to end the aggression – but Hamas erred and stubbornly rejected the Egyptian initiative from the start. [This,] in a bid to promote the role of Turkey and Qatar, in line with the MB's views, while engaging in an unfortunate attempt to marginalize the role of Egypt, [even though Egypt's role] is indespensible, for pan-Arab, historical, geographical and strategic reasons. Having failed [to achieve its goals], Hamas came back to Egypt – which has shouldered the Palestinian cause throughout [the history of] the Arab-Israeli conflict – [and participated in the negotiations] under the official mantle of the PLO.
"Hamas' media, along with the media of the MB, still insist on inciting against our big sister Egypt and on blaming it for the aggression and the continuing Gaza siege. They do not understand that the Arabs, and especially the Egyptians, read [the map] correctly and are well aware of what Hamas wants [to achieve] in its propaganda and political campaign against Egypt, which has been going on since the June 30, [2013] revolution [against the MB rule in Egypt].
Delete"What concerns us today is the fate of the oppressed people of Gaza, who have lost every aspect of a [normal] life. Where will [we] find housing for all the families that have lost their homes and cannot find shelter except in public facilities? Who will undertake to find them new housing, and how long will it take to end the catastrophe, rebuild the ruins, and heal the deep wounds caused by the oppressive aggression and by the Palestinian side's mishandling of the campaign? This is where Hamas begins to shirk its responsibility and place the responsibility upon [the shoulders of] the PA and the national accord government, which [only] on paper."
Can we say "winning"?
Got to LOVE the bravery of the ISIS/Hamas/Moslem Brotherhood Clerics...
ReplyDeleteIn a Friday sermon delivered among the ruins of the Al-Sousi Mosque in Gaza on August 8, 2014, the cleric said: "The Palestinian nation is ready to sacrifice two million martyrs." The sermon was broadcast by the Al-Jazeera network.
Following are excerpts:
Unnamed cleric: Oh sons of Judaism, oh sons of slavery [i.e., Arab rulers], no matter how much you kill us, we will not let go of our weapons.
We will not let go of our weapons, even if the number of martyrs exceeds two million, not just 2,000. The Palestinian nation is ready to sacrifice two million martyrs, for the sake of the holiest and most just cause on the face of the Earth. We are ready to sacrifice all the sons of the Palestinian people for this holy cause.
[...]
Oh Allah, destroy the Jews. Oh Allah, destroy the Jews, those who support the Jews, those who side with the Jews, cooperate with the Jews, trade with the Jews, or open a gateway for them into the land of Islam.
So he is pretty much calling for the death of all Europeans, Americans, Indians, Egyptians, Jordanians, Moroccans and the many others who trade with Israel publicly or privately.
Amazingly, this brave man is willing to have millions of his own people killed, yet he is apparently not willing to do any fighting himself.
More propaganda from the Zionists, but the reality is that Israelis are in Cairo, negotiating with Hamas.
ReplyDeleteHamas exists, Hamas was not destroyed.
It has been legitimized.
Hamas won.
UK to suspend military exports to Israel, if fighting in Gaza resumes
ReplyDeleteInternational-Jerusalem Post
The hundreds of thousands who have taken to the streets of Britain over the past month in support of and solidarity with the people of Gaza have seen their protests denounced by neocons and rightwingers because they aren’t about some other group of people, somewhere else.
DeleteThe “why don’t they march against something else” crowd accuse us of silence on those atrocities. There are certainly many terrible humanitarian disasters in the world, most recently that of the Yazidis in Iraq, about which we must all feel anguish. Our argument is that our government and the US’s past intervention have not helped the people of the Middle East, but made things worse. The point of a mass demonstration is to put pressure on our government and to alter public opinion in this country. They have had an impact. Public opinion remains strongly anti-intervention and anti-war, and last year, mobilised public opinion was instrumental in stopping David Cameron’s attempt to bomb Syria.
Last Saturday’s demonstration was the biggest ever pro-Palestine protest at 150,000.
Hamas won!
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/11/british-protesting-gaza-iraq-israel-oppression-palestinians
DeleteSodaStream
ReplyDeleteNASDAQ: SODA - Aug 12 6:57 PM ET
32.060 That's DOWN .97 or (2.94%) just today.
August 13, 2012 share value was $64.73
Today it is $32.06
And then Starbucks backed out of that Sodastream 'deal'
http://www.bdsmovement.net/2014/starbucks-may-face-a-boycott-if-it-partners-with-sodastream-12008
Starbucks is rolling out handcrafted sodas across the Southeast on ... New Fizzio Soda Machine
Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz Wakes Up and Smells the Boycotts
http://jewishbusinessnews.com/2014/08/11/starbucks-ceo-howard-schultz-wakes-up-and-smells-the-boycotts/