COLLECTIVE MADNESS
“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."
ReplyDeleteWhat a disgusting post.
DeleteIsrael's policies since its founding in 1948 are just that, disgusting.
You finally got one correct, Robert Peterson!
Yawn.
Deletethe "riots" of the west bank? theater. Sure are the young people pissed off? Sure. But maybe they should be pissed at their own elected leadership, not another nations.
As for the specious South Africa piece? Has nothing to do with Israel.
But The critics of Israel here have never been to Israel and really don't have a clue.
I notice that Deuce included the number of rockets fired into Israel!! Oh my bad... Nope he didn't..
DeleteEach one a war crime, no dispute there. A direct, clear war crime.
But let's not look at what Hamas does...
Hamas has not been ethnically cleaning Palestine since 1948, Israel has.
DeleteWhat Israeli Historians Say About 1948 Ethnic Cleansing
By Charley Reese
In an article in the Ha’aretz newspaper, Danny Rabinovitz wrote,
“What happened to the Palestinians in 1948 is Israel’s original sin…
Between the 1950s and 1976,
the state systematically confiscated most of the land of its remaining Palestinian citizens.”
And yet?
DeleteReality trumps your propaganda, again.
1.2 MILLION arabs are citizens of Israel. More arabs today INSIDE 1948 borders than existed from the river to the sea in 1948
Here's a good topic -
ReplyDeletehttp://hotair.com/archives/2014/07/24/quotes-of-the-day-1800/
If it only could be clicked!
DeleteYou are kind of like the Scare Crow in the Wizard of Oz, Robert Peterson ...
If you only had a brain!
Here is a song written for you, Robert Peterson
If Bob only had a Brain
http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/339323/Wizard-Of-Oz-The-Movie-Clip-If-I-Only-Had-A-Brain.html
Israel must be permitted to crush Hamas
ReplyDeleteA Palestinian runs in an area damaged in an Israeli airstrike in Gaza City. (Hatem Moussa/AP)
By Michael Oren July 24 at 8:07 PM
Michael Oren was Israel’s ambassador to the United States from 2009 to 2013. He currently is a fellow at the Interdisciplinary Center Herzliya and the Atlantic Council.
U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon, Secretary of State John Kerry and the foreign ministers of Great Britain and France all are rushing to achieve a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas. Their motive — to end civilian suffering and restore stability to the area — is noble. The images of the wounded and dead resulting from the conflict are indeed agonizing. However, these senior statesmen can be most helpful now by doing nothing. To preserve the values they cherish and to send an unequivocal message to terrorist organizations and their state sponsors everywhere, Israel must be permitted to crush Hamas in the Gaza Strip.
This is the lesson of previous rounds of fighting between the Israeli Defense Forces and terrorist strongholds. In Lebanon in 2006 and in Gaza in 2008 and again in 2012, Israel responded to rocket attacks on its cities with fierce counteroffensives. Fighting against a deeply dug-in enemy that both blended in with the local population and used it as a shield, Israel’s best efforts to avoid civilian casualties invariably proved limited. Incensed world opinion generated immense pressure on governments to convene the U.N. Security Council and empower human rights organizations to censure Israel and stop the carnage. These measures succeeded where the terrorists’ rockets failed. Israel was compelled to back down.
And the terrorists, though badly mauled, won. Admittedly, their bar for claiming victory was exceptionally low. While Israel must achieve a clear battlefield success to win, the terrorists merely had to survive. But they did more than survive. Under the protection of cease-fires and, in some cases, international peacekeepers, they vastly expanded their arsenals to include more lethal and longer-range missiles. While reestablishing their rule in the streets, they burrowed beneath them to create a warren of bombproof bunkers and assault tunnels. Such measures enabled Hamas, as well as Hezbollah, to mount devastating attacks at the time of their choosing, confident that the international community would once again prevent Israel from exacting too heavy a price.
DeleteSo the cycle continued. Allowed to fight for several weeks, at most, Israel was eventually condemned and hamstrung by cease-fires. The terrorists, by contrast, could emerge from their hideouts and begin to replenish and enhance their stockpiles. That is precisely the pattern established in the second Lebanon War and repeated in Operations Cast Lead and Pillar of Defense in Gaza. Hezbollah and Hamas sustained losses but, rescued and immunized by international diplomacy, they remained in power and became more powerful still. Israel, on the other hand, was forced to defend its right to defend itself. Jihadist organizations no different from the Islamic State and al-Qaeda gained regional legitimacy, while Israel lost it in the world.
The cycle can end, now and decisively. As Operation Protective Edge enters its third week , responsible world leaders can give Israel the time and the leverage it needs to alter Hamas’s calculus. They can let the Israeli army ferret Hamas out of its holes and make it pay a prohibitive cost for its attacks. They can create an outcome in which the organization, even if it remains in Gaza, is defanged and deprived of its heavy arms. Of course, Hamas will resist demilitarization, and more civilians will suffer, but by ending the cycle once and for all thousands of innocent lives will be saved.
Life in Gaza is miserable now, but if Israel is permitted to prevail, circumstances can improve markedly. U.S.- and Canadian-trained security forces of the Palestinian Authority can take over key crossings and patrol Gaza’s porous border with Egypt. Rather than be funneled into Hamas’s war chest, international aid can be transferred directly to the civilian population to repair war damage and stimulate economic growth. Terrorist groups and their state patrons can be put on notice: The game has changed unalterably.
And by letting Israel regain its security with regard to Gaza — with all the pain it entails — the United States and its allies will be safeguarding their own. Though bitter, the fighting between Israel and Hamas raging in Gaza’s alleyways is merely part of the far vaster struggle between rational nations and the al-Qaeda and Islamic State-like forces seeking their destruction. Relative to that global conflict, Operation Protective Edge may seem small, but it is nevertheless pivotal. To ensure that it concludes with a categorical Israeli win is in the world’s fundamental interest. To guarantee peace, this war must be given a chance.
July 25, 2014
ReplyDeleteWaPo's Great Discovery -- U.S. Favors Israel!
By Leo Rennert
The Washington Post runs a front-page article in its July 24 editions about how U.S.-Israeli ties might affect negotiations for a cease-fire in Gaza. (“In U.S.-Israel ties, a mixed blessing -- Kerry seeks cease-fire, but Gazans question America’s neutrality -- Gazans doubt U.S. intent” by Sudarsan Baghavan and William Booth)
The article warns how U.S. support of Israel may impede efforts to halt the Gaza fighting. Or as the Post’s correspondents put it: “As Secretary of State John Kerry presses for a lasting cease-fire between Israel and Hamas, those close bonds could prove to be both a curse and a blessing. Either way, they are reviving questions about whether the United States can be an honest broker for peace.”
The article goes on to dwell at length on Hamas and Islamic Jihad unhappiness with the U.S. favoring Israel -- “To the Palestinians militants, the United States is often seen as equally responsible for the Israeli bombardment of the Gaza Strip and mounting Palestinian casualties because much of Israel’s firepower is American-made.”
Well, what do you know, as the Post would have it, there should instead be perfect “neutrality” between the U.S. and Palestinian terrorist organizations. Otherwise, the U.S. role of honest broker breaks down.
I suppose if the same Post mentality prevailed during World War II, readers would have been told that U.S. support of the Allies could prove to be a “curse” and a grave obstacle blocking any U.S. role as “honest broker” between the Germans and the Allies.
This is, of course, mindless. Meshugah, one might add. And on the front page yet.
Leo Rennert is a former White House correspondent and Washington bureau chief of McClatchy
ReplyDeleteUN inquiry could lead to war crime charges for Israel - Haaretz
Jack Hawkins Fri Jul 25, 07:37:00 AM EDT
DeleteIf it only could be clicked!
You are kind of like the Scare Crow in the Wizard of Oz, Jack Hawkins
If you only had a brain!
Here is a song written for you, Jack
If Jack only had a Brain
http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/339323/Wizard-Of-Oz-The-Movie-Clip-If-I-Only-Had-A-Brain.html
ReplyDeleteThe U.S. should push for the disarming of Hamas in Gaza-Israel cease-fire
538
More
A Palestinian man stands amid the debris following an Israeli air strike on Gaza City. (Mohammed Abed/AFP/Getty Images)
By Editorial Board July 23
THE DISTINGUISHING feature of the latest war between Israel and Hamas is “offensive tunnels,” as the Israeli army calls them. As of early Wednesday, 28 had been uncovered in Gaza, and nearly half extend into Israel, according to Israeli officials. The tunnels are the reason that the government of Benjamin Netanyahu decided last weekend to launch a ground invasion of Gaza, and they explain why that operation has strong support from Israelis in spite of the relatively heavy casualties it has inflicted. Most significantly, the tunnels show why it has been difficult to reach a cease-fire and why any accord must forge a new political and security order in Gaza.
Hamas’s offensive tunnels should not be confused with the burrows it has dug under Gaza’s border with Egypt to smuggle money, consumer goods and military equipment. The newly discovered structures have only one conceivable purpose: to launch attacks inside Israel. Three times in recent days, Hamas fighters emerged from the tunnels in the vicinity of Israeli civilian communities, which they clearly aimed to attack. The concrete-lined structures are stocked with materials, such as handcuffs and tranquilizers, that could be used on hostages. Other tunnels in northern Gaza are designed for the storage and firing of missiles at Israeli cities.
The resources devoted by Hamas to this project are staggering, particularly in view of Gaza’s extreme poverty. By one Israeli account, the typical tunnel cost $1 million to build over the course of several years, using tons of concrete desperately needed for civilian housing. By design, many of the tunnels have entrances in the heavily populated Shijaiyah district, where the Israeli offensive has been concentrated. One was found underneath al-Wafa hospital, where Hamas also located a command post and stored weapons, according to Israeli officials.
The depravity of Hamas’s strategy seems lost on much of the outside world, which — following the terrorists’ script — blames Israel for the civilian casualties it inflicts while attempting to destroy the tunnels. While children die in strikes against the military infrastructure that Hamas’s leaders deliberately placed in and among homes, those leaders remain safe in their own tunnels. There they continue to reject cease-fire proposals, instead outlining a long list of unacceptable demands.
One of those demands is for a full reopening of Gaza’s land and sea borders. While this would allow relief and economic development for the territory’s population, it would also allow Hamas to import more missiles and concrete for new tunnels. Secretary of State John F. Kerry, the Egyptian government and other would-be brokers are right to seek a cease-fire, but they should reject Hamas’s agenda. Instead, any political accord should come after a cease-fire and be negotiated with the Palestinian leadership of Mahmoud Abbas. It should link opening of the borders and other economic concessions to the return to Gaza of the security forces of the Palestinian Authority, the disarmament of Hamas and elections for a new government.
In setting such conditions, international mediators will likely have the quiet support of most of Gaza’s population. Polls show that they are fed up with Hamas’s rule and with its use of women and children as cannon fodder in unwinnable wars with Israel. The next government of Gaza should be one that invests in schools, health clinics and houses, not in tunnels.
Build apartments and schools, not terror tunnels.
ReplyDeleteWhat a novel idea.
July 25, 2014
ReplyDeleteWanted: A march calling on Hamas to stop shooting rockets at Israel
By Silvio Canto, Jr.
Nobody likes civilian casualties, especially not Israel. The Israeli army is always very careful in waging a thankless urban war where civilian casualties are inevitable. The Israeli army is going after legitimate targets but has to walk over civilians, and children, strategically located to create headlines.
Over the last couple of days, there have been deaths in Gaza and riots:
"Israeli security forces have shot dead two Palestinians dur
ing a massive protest in the West Bank, according to medical officials.
The victims were among an estimated 10,000 people who clashed with soldiers and border police at a checkpoint in Qalandiya, between Jerusalem and Ramallah.
The protest came hours after 15 people were killed and more than 200 injuredwhen a UN school in the city of Beit Hanoun was hit by an artillery shell.
At least 90 people were injured in the checkpoint clashes, with some reports that live fire was being used.
An Israeli army spokeswoman told the AFP news agency soldiers used "riot disposal means" to control the protest."
My anger is over the reaction, especially in so many Western cities like the riots in Paris.
What would these Parisians say if rockets were landing in their neighborhoods?
My opinion is that Israel has every right to defend itself. They should be allowed to crush Hamas, as Michael Oren wrote.
And it is shameful that people are not marching calling on Hamas to stop shooting rockets that threaten civilians in Israel.
The silence is shameful. It speaks volumes about the lack of integrity in the anti-Israel movement.
Stop shooting missiles at Israel.
ReplyDeleteWhat a novel idea.
ReplyDeleteIraqi military strikes Falluja from the air
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QVqVM-qsWB4/U9IOdnRDS8I/AAAAAAABmig/6RvSRzNl1SQ/s1600/Shejaiya+Terror+Activity+Center+1.png
ReplyDeleteImage of SOME of the tunnels discovered by Hamas
Notice the tunnels from the "hospitals"?
That's how they get the wounded to medical attention, "O"rdure.
DeleteIf they stayed on the surface streets the Israeli would shoot them.
the tunnels went from the hospitals into israel dip wad..
DeleteJack you really just don't have a clue do you?
DeleteIn an especially perceptive passage, the authors write:
Delete“Israel’s version of apartheid is more sophisticated than the South African version.
South African apartheid was rudimentary, petty, primitive —
literally black and white, clear separation, no rights.
Israel’s apartheid is more hidden with the deceptive image of ‘democracy.’
Palestinian citizens of Israel have the right to vote. However, in every other area they are discriminated against by law and policy.”
<http://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-apartheid-more-sophisticated-south-africas-says-new-book/12581
How else were they going to get their wounded back from Occupied Palestine, "O"rdure?
DeleteOf course they were planning on raids into Occupied Palestine, just as the Zionists planned raids into Gaza
An answer for everything..
DeleteLet me ask you this...
When you were a child did your father ever look at you and say: Just shut the fuck up?
Jack HawkinsFri Jul 25, 08:37:00 AM EDT
DeleteHow else were they going to get their wounded back from Occupied Palestine, "O"rdure?
Of course they were planning on raids into Occupied Palestine, just as the Zionists planned raids into Gaza
The tunnels are in fact a diversion of concrete and steel and supplies that the human rights groups decide that Israel allow into the strip for humanity purposes.
The importing and smuggling of over 900,000 TONS of concrete went into the hamas tunnel project.
Glad it was discovered and is being destroyed....
Excuses from the peanut gallery aside.
Once again the Hamas/Iranians have shown their true war like hand at pure evil terror..
Hopefully? the IDF will cut the heart out of the beast...
Jack, sorry if your friends get whacked , well no I am not
July 25, 2014
ReplyDeleteThe Devil's best trick is making people believe he doesn't exist
By Lee DeCovnick
In the aftermath of the Allied liberation of Germany in 1945, American and British troops bussed ten of thousands of German citizens to the concentration camps, forcing them to view the vast piles of dead, emaciated bodies that were the result of the Nazi’s quest for a racially pure Third Reich. Many of the Germans admitted they had seen the “death trains” loaded with Jews, Gypsies and Catholics as they rolled past their towns, only to return empty a few hours later. Almost all of the forcibly bussed Germans thought the stories of mass killing and industrial crematoria running twenty-four hours day were too fantastic to believe.
From theaustralian.com, July 25th, 2014, the headline reads:
JIHADISTS in Iraq have ordered that all women between the ages of 11 and 46 must undergo female genital mutilation, which could affect up to four million women and girls in the war-ravaged country, a UN official said last night.
The first four paragraphs are as follows:
The UN’s second most senior official in Iraq, Jacqueline Badcock, said, “It is a fatwa (or religious edict) from ISIS, we learnt about it this morning. We have no precise numbers.”
The Islamic State, formerly known as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS), took over large swathes of the country last month and has begun imposing its extreme Salafist interpretation of Islam.
Ms Badcock said that if you took UN population figures as a guide, around “four million girls and women could be affected”.
Female genital mutilation is unusual in Iraq and is only practised in “isolated pockets of the country”, she added. The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 2012 calling all member states to ban the practice.
Let us contrast The Australian coverage to that of New York Times headline and it’s first four paragraphs.
ReplyDeleteFrom nytimes.com, July 25th, 2014, the headline reads:
Iraq Picks New President to Confront Militant Threat
The New York Times first four paragraphs are as follows:
BAGHDAD — Trying to piece together a new government to confront a Sunni militant offensive and growing internal strains, Iraqi leaders on Thursday selected a well-regarded Kurdish politician to be the country’s new president.
Though the post is largely ceremonial, Iraqi officials said the choice was a vital step to try to ease the growing distrust between the country’s northern Kurdish population and the Shiite-dominated government in Baghdad and present a more united front against the militants of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, or ISIS.
Yet even as the government is trying to rally, the Sunni militants are consolidating their grip over a broadening portion of the map. Along with the nuts and bolts of traditional governance, like paving neglected roads, ISIS is also employing violence and intimidation in the quest to create a hard-line Islamist caliphate.
On Thursday, militants destroyed a shrine in Mosul that was said to be the tomb of the prophet Jonah, and there have been increasing reports of public executions. Reports also surfaced of an edict ordering women and girls to undergo genital mutilation in ISIS-held territory, though some Mosul residents said they had seen no evidence it was being enforced, and some militant-affiliated social media accounts denied it.
Ah yes, “some militant-affiliated social media denied it.” Who might that be?
Well, the Soros-paid bloggers at Think Progress are among many hard left progressive sites that have tried to discredit or downplay the story. Also the BBC and Slate are also attempting to muddy the waters.
But honestly, this story couldn’t become reality in the 21st century? Four million girls and women, screaming and sobbing, stripped, tied down, cut and mutilated, all to support the literal teachings of Islam?
No, this is too fantastic a story for a rational person to believe.
Or you could ask any of the eleven million souls that perished in Nazi death camps what they think of this preview of hell.
Imagine, this is the "Yinon Plan" which the Israeli have been working on for thirty years, being fully implemented.
DeleteNo, this is too fantastic a story for a rational person to believe.
This is what Oden Yinon had to declare about Iraq:
«Every kind of inter-Arab confrontation will assist us in the short run and will shorten the way to the more important aim of breaking up Iraq into denominations as in Syria and in Lebanon. In Iraq, a division into provinces along ethnic/religious lines as in Syria during Ottoman times is possible. So, three (or more) states will exist around the three major cities: Basra, Baghdad and Mosul, and Shiite areas in the south will separate from the Sunni and Kurdish north».
http://beforeitsnews.com/international/2013/08/the-yinon-plan-2466788.html
Assume you are correct.
DeleteThen it's a good plan...
faster, faster...
Look at what "O"rdure says is part of Israel's "good plan".
DeleteIslamic State Militants Order Female Genital Mutilation In Iraq
"O"rdure thinks that having ISIS rampage through Iraq, displacing Christians and mutilating Muslim women, well ...
What is "Occupation"Fri Jul 25, 08:55:00 AM EDT
...
Then it's a good plan...
faster, faster...
One sick puppy, is our "O"rdure, and that is no fraudulent fantasy, but a legitimate cut and paste.
Faster and faster I root for the evil to kill each other off..
Deletequote that jackass..
It is not sick to watch evil assholes kill one another.
That's why someday, when you are fighting the MS13? i shall not root for either side to win, but for both to die.
Keeping one's hands to oneself.
ReplyDeleteIn Islam, what a novel idea.
Why didn't the Zionists keep their hands to themselves, why did they have to insert theirs into Palestine, in 1948?
DeleteJack, why did your ancestors invade and steal indian lands?
DeleteFor political Zionism to come to fruition –
Delete- for a Jewish state to be created in Palestine -
it was necessary to carry out as large a scale as possible ethnic cleansing of the country’s unwanted Arab natives.
But even in 1948, and especially in 1967,
Israel was unable to fully ‘cleanse’ the land of the Palestinians.
As a result, Israel’s fallback position was to implement an apartheid regime of exclusion and discrimination.
Where the dispossession had been most effective
– inside Israel’s pre-1967 borders –
apartheid could be less explicit.
But in the OPT, home to a vast majority of Palestinians,
Israeli apartheid had to be overt and iron-fisted.
Ben White
http://israeliapartheidguide.com/sample/
Yawn, facts matter.
DeleteMore arabs are living in israel as citizens today than existed in entire region in 1948.
The arabs of ISRAEL don't want any part of this stupidity.
But it is true that 850,000 jews and the 3 MILLION decedents were ethnically cleansed from the arab occupied 899/900th of the middle east..
If facts matter ...
DeleteZionists murder civilians, Jewish refugees in a False Flag operation
On Nov. 25, 1940, a boat carrying Jewish refugees from Nazi Europe, the “Patra,” exploded and sank off the coast of Palestine killing 252 people.
The Zionist “Haganah” claimed the passengers committed suicide to protest British refusal to let them land.
Years later, it admitted that rather than let the passengers go to Mauritius, it blew up the vessel for its propaganda value.
“Sometimes it is necessary to sacrifice the few in order to save the many,”
Moshe Sharett, a former Israeli Prime Minister said at memorial service in 1958.
http://beforeitsnews.com/strange/2013/03/zionists-led-jews-to-annihilation-in-ww2-2447940.html
If facts matter ...
Delete“The majority of Jews do not have Middle Eastern genetic component,” he told Israeli newspaper Haaretz.
Founded on a mélange of myths and manufactured historical tales,
Israel has failed the archaeological test of time and is now exposed by DNA science.
Today’s genetics prove unequivocally that in 1948 “the children of the original Jews” were replaced by converts ...
With no roots in the Middle East.
http://www.redressonline.com/2013/02/the-myth-of-the-jewish-people/
Majority of Americans do not have an American Indian gene..
DeleteGallup shows split in backing for Israel in Gaza war, with younger Americans unsupportive
ReplyDeleteOlder Americans were much likelier to say Israel’s actions were justified: 55 percent of those over 65, 53 percent of those between 50 and 64, 36 percent of those 30-49 and just 25 percent of those 18-29.
There were other dramatic differences in how subgroups measured support for Israel with 65 percent of Republicans calling Israel’s actions justified and just 31 percent of Democrats and 36 percent of Independents saying they were justified
Read more: http://www.jta.org/2014/07/25/news-opinion/politics/gallup-shows-split-in-backing-for-israel-in-gaza-war-with-younger-americans-unsupportive#ixzz38TxtcdRx
Day by day, brick by brick, the Zionist edifice of lies is being dismantled
Stay the Course 1
Not to worry, most younger Americans are more interested in free condoms and legal pot.
DeleteAnd aint that the plan? Keep the youngsters stoned and fucking... Just get them to VOTE Democrat when called upon..
And 97% of them do not have an American Indian gene..
DeleteOccupiers one and all…..
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThree rockets fired at Israel airport: Hamas GAZA CITY- Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas said Friday it fired three rockets at Tel Aviv airport, a day after US and some European airlines had resumed flights after a two-day suspension.
Delete“At 11:45 am (0845 GMT), the Qassam Brigades bombarded Ben Gurion airport with three M75 rockets,”
By allowing US carriers to fly into Ben-Gurion Airport the US government is putting lives at risk.
The existential threat to Israel posed by those rockets are a deadly threat to the passengers of US air lines.
Get used to it.
DeleteIt's coming to an airport near you soon...
DeleteDoubt it, "O"rdure, unless the terrorists of the Mossad are planning more false flag attacks in the US.
With your inside knowledge of that Terrorist Organization, "O"rdure, why don't you keep us all up to date on the future terrorist attacks the Mossad has planned against the US, will you please?
DeleteJake, you so FUNNY...
Deletebut really? that border right below your ass? Hezbollah and other unfriendlies are coming across... MS13 and such...
AZ airports? a prime target...
Your 350 acres? an excellent base, they could take you out and take over most of your land and none would be the wiser...
I for one think you are PART of the terrorist support...
That's why the TSA are watching you.. Your pot usage and gun dealing have not gone unnoticed...
Better ask your mole in the AZ FBI to let you see what the investigation is up to on you.. If he still has a job or is not to scared to tell you...
"O"rdure, like all Zionists, falls back on fraud, falsehoods and fantasies.
DeleteHe has no rational position. He supports those that kill children.
The Israeli have, on average, kill 13 Palestinian children each and every monh of the 21st Century.
That's thirteen children a month, each month of the 21st Century.
Israel - Founded by Terrorists - Sustained by Terrorism
The Israeli have, on average, killed 13 Palestinian children each and every monh of the 21st Century.
DeleteJack HawkinsFri Jul 25, 09:03:00 AM EDT
DeleteThe Israeli have, on average, killed 13 Palestinian children each and every monh of the 21st Century.
So?
America has killed over 55 MILLION children in about the same time frame.
The arabs? Have killed MILLIONS and MILLIONS….
The Chinese and Russians? To many to number..
But the amazing part of your propaganda?? it sure aint genocide like you also claim
The way you process so called facts is amazing, you should get a job with the government accounting office...
"O"rdure is at it again ...
DeleteSearching for "Equivalency" in all the wrong places.
You should be looking to Boko Haram for Israeli equivalency, like your buddy allen was.
Or to Zimbabwe, North Korea and South Africa under the National Party regime.
Jack to use your standards?
DeleteThe palestinians would have ceased to be 66 years ago.
But Israel is not what you describe it be.
Maybe instead of reading from your talking points you should get a ticket and go to Israel and learn something. Of that's right, you'd be arrested for war crimes the moment you hit the international border.. MY BAD
DeleteHuh?
I'll leave the Sex Trade capital of the world, to you "O"rdure and your fellow Zionists
LONG BEACH, Calif. An 80-year-old man who came home to find two burglars says he shot and killed one of them despite her pleas that she was pregnant, but it's her alleged accomplice who has been arrested on suspicion of murder.
ReplyDeletePolice said they would present their case to prosecutors Friday but were uncertain whether to recommend charges against Tom Greer, who told a television station he shot the fleeing woman in the back.
"She says, 'Don't shoot me, I'm pregnant — I'm going to have a baby,' and I shot her anyway," Greer told KNBC-TV outside his house.
"The lady didn't run as fast as the man, so I shot her in the back twice,"Greer told the TV station.
.
DeleteNot knowing all the facts in the case, it's hard to judge.
However, if the only facts are those presented above, it would be astounding to hear that the prosecutors were still "uncertain whether to recommend charges against Tom Greer." I mean the guy admits he shot a fleeing woman in the back.
This is not Florida we are talking about.
At a minimum Greer should be given a thorough psychological examination. Who in his right mind would admit to a TV crew that he shot a women in the back as she was fleeing the scene and screaming that she was pregnant?
.
Well if it was a Jew? The Hamas for one.
DeleteSo, "O"rdure, you are now saying that Hamas is in their "Right Mind" to be killing Jews.
DeleteThat they are justified in their actions ...
Hamas is no longer a band of deranged killers, in your statement, but can be considered "Righteous".
You better get back to your English as a Second Language class, get some refresher hours..
You certainly need it.
Jack your reading ability seems to be getting worse…
Deletelay off the bong so early in the morning.
Justice Brandeis famously pointed out, are the laboratories of democracy. And it’s still true. For example, one reason we knew or should have known that Obamacare was workable was the post-2006 success of Romneycare in Massachusetts. More recently, Kansas went all-in on supply-side economics, slashing taxes on the affluent in the belief that this would spark a huge boom; the boom didn’t happen, but the budget deficit exploded, offering an object lesson to those willing to learn from experience.
ReplyDeleteAnd there’s an even bigger if less drastic experiment under way in the opposite direction. California has . . . . . .
Economists View
DeleteNick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKCvf8E7V1g
Rich Americans Aren't the Real Job Creators
Nick Hanauer
A proud capitalist on what really drives economic growth -- and how the tax system can better reflect reality
In a November 2011 op-ed for Bloomberg View, I argued that rich people in general -- and business-people in particular -- are not job creators. When the economy is understood in 21st-century terms, as an ecosystem, it becomes obvious that jobs don't squirt out of business-people like jelly from doughnuts. Rather, jobs are the consequence of the feedback loop between customers and businesses. For this reason, it is middle-class consumers and the demand they create that are our true job creators, not rich business-people.
Given this, it is counter-productive to build a tax system that asymmetrically benefits the people at the very top. We all are better off -- business-people and consumers, rich and poor -- if the burden of taxes is placed at the top and not the middle, enabling middle class citizens to consume, and starting the positive feedback loop of job creation again.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/09/rich-americans-arent-the-real-job-creators/262833/
DeleteThis is a simple, indisputable fact: an occupying power is *not* entitled to claim “self-defense” when those that it occupies attempt to fight back.
ReplyDeleteIt can claim a right to “restore order”, sure.
It can even claim a right to punish those who commit crimes against the occupying forces, sure.
International law allows an occupying power to claim both of those things.
But an occupier can’t claim “self-defence”, precisely because it is already engaged in an ongoing act of belligerency i.e. a belligerent occupation.
Then Israel should OCCUPY Gaza, arrest and execute all war criminals. Occupy if it completely.
DeleteThat means a complete lock down and take down of all criminal enterprises.
Just like America did to Japan after the war.
So Israel needs to conquer the strip, then OCCUPY it..
Israel has not occupied Gaza in years.
DeleteThey left, remember?
I think Egypt should occupy one half, Israel the other, until the place is disarmed and Hamas is gone.
So, how are those Republican Governors that refused the Medicaid Money doing?
ReplyDeleteWell,
LePage in Maine - almost sure to lose in November
Corbett in Pennsylvania - Dead Man Walking
Scott in Florida - losing to Crist
Deal in Georgia - in jeopardy to Carter
Brownback in Kansas - losing to Davis
Walker in Wisconsin - running slightly behind Burke
Israel isn’t finished with the Palestinians yet. Israel’s goal is the mass exodus of all the Arabs and the settlement of Jews in their place - then Israel’s mind will turn to “peace”.
ReplyDeleteJohn, great idea.
Deletethanks
The Zionist cowards had their chance, and punted.
DeleteLeaving their progeny in a "No Win" situation.
The Zionist Regime
Dead Man Walking
The Zionists are burning down all of the Middle East, in their attempt to survive.
DeleteThe "Yinon Plan" is, in its own way, just a modification of "The Sampson Option".
The Zionist have known this day was coming, since the inception of their colonial enterprise.
Ben Gurion knew they were on the wrong side of history, the wrong side of scripture, but drove forward, regardless.
I insist on the truth, not out of respect for scientific but political realities.
The acknowledgement of this truth leads to inevitable and serious conclusions regarding our work in Palestine…
let us not build on the hope the terrorist gangs will get tired. If some get tired, others will replace them.
A people which fights against the usurpation of its land will not tire so easily…
it is easier for them to continue the war and not get tired than it is for us...
○ Address at the Mapai Political Committee (7 June 1938) as quoted in Flapan, Simha, 1979.
Yep we are all powerful….
DeleteEverything is our fault.
Everything.
Jack? The reason your wife left you?
Our Fault!!
The reason you are a shitty human being?
Our Fault!
Our Plan, Our Fault…
Does that make you feel any better?
"O"rdure is once again showing how irrational he can be.
DeleteThe Israeli have systematically worked to destabilize their neighbors. It was a strategic imperative. they wrote the plans, updated the plans and implemented those plans.
Now their agent, "O"rdure, want to deny their involvement in the outcome of their planning and implementation.
The Zionist have a track record, it is well documented. They are excellent record keepers. The plans were published, the work quite visible, the air strikes, obvious.
The denials are frivolous, the counter claims are fraudulent.
The search for equivalency, belated.
The Zionists are holding two pair ...
Aces & Eights
Their regime no more than a ...
Dead Man Walking
More from Mr Ben Gurion ...
ReplyDeleteRegarding the Galilee, Mr. [Moshe] Sharett already told you that about 100,000 Arabs still now live in the pocket of Galilee.
Let us assume that a war breaks out.
Then we will be able to cleanse the entire area of Central Galilee, including all its refugees, in one stroke.
In this context let me mention some mediators who offered to give us the Galilee without war.
What they meant was the populated Galilee.
They didn’t offer us the empty Galilee, which we could have only by means of a war.
Therefore if a war is extended to cover the whole of Palestine, our greatest gain will be the Galilee.
It is because without any special military effort which might imperil other fronts,
only by using the troops already assigned for the task, we could accomplish our aim of cleansing the Galilee.
From a protocol of the Government of Israel, translated from Hebrew by Israel Shahak, in "Truth or Myth about Israel? Read between Quotation Marks" by Charley Reese in The Orlando Sentinel (13 June 1999); later published as "What Israeli Historians Say About 1948 Ethnic Cleansing" in Washington Report on Middle East Affairs (September 1999)
Delete... only by using the troops already assigned for the task, we could accomplish our aim of cleansing the Galilee.
My God, rat is running on at the mouth this morning.
ReplyDelete.
DeleteRat got up and did a huge bong… stoned again before 9 am
Delete"O"rdure.
DeleteBob, you can't BLAME rat, he's a sick, sick, sick, twisted POS.
DeleteHe's a trained killer that cannot kill anymore...
Old, feeble and stoned...
And insane and bitter..
No woman will have him, he told us he could not bare to be a father so he ran away from that too...
sad sack...
Five Fatal Flaws of Solar Energy - Collecting solar energy will never play more than a minor and very expensive role in supplying grid power. - Here's why.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.americanthinker.com/2014/07/five_fatal_flaws_of_solar_energy.html
The Montana Senate seat up for grabs in November is now rock solid for the Republicans. The democrat got caught plagiarizing his 12 or 16 page Master's Thesis. Wasn't much of a thesis anyway, but it wasn't his either.
ReplyDeleteHe blames the whole fiasco on PTSD, which no one is buying.
Here’s a nice short piece from one of our readers:
ReplyDeleteBy Bob Wallace
Recently someone was saying that renewables weren’t replacing fossil fuels. I decided how to see how one might clearly demonstrate that they are.
I took the market share for fossil fuels, nuclear, and renewables from 2000 to 2013 (EIA estimate) and calculated the percentage market share for each year.
Then I used the numbers from 2000 through 2004 (5 years) as a baseline, calculated annual change from the baseline, and plotted.
In 2009 the world began changing. At least in the US.
Fossil fuel average for 2000 through 2004 was 71.1%. By 2013 its share had dropped 3.7%. (Down to 67.5%.)
The renewable average was 8.8% and rose by 4.1%, covering both fossil fuel’s and nuclear’s losses. (Up to 12.9%.)
Pretty little chart on click-through
Cleantechnica
I hope we get there.
Delete"All of the Above"
Yesterday, California was probably producing twice as much electricity from Solar as Idaho was using.
Delete4.6 Gigawattsw
.
DeletePretty picture, eh?
Well, I don't know about pretty but I would say comical. It is a text book example of lying with statistics.
[Note: This is not any type of slam at the 'actual' data. I am glad to see the growth we have seen in renewables. It's great for the country. I merely point out the deceptive way the data is represented in the Cleantechnica article.]
Just as by using a selective sample you can prove that using results of a coin toss a particular coin is biased, you can also mislead visually. A pertinent example:
There's another neat trick - displaying a one-dimensional value in two dimensions. Huff uses the example of moneybags, one twice as tall as the other. The picture is ostensibly representing one person having twice as much moola as another. The deception is visual; although the larger bag is correctly twice as tall as the smaller one, the AREA you see in the picture is 4 times larger! And if you think about the volume it is 8 times larger! Your eye will pick up the area or volume and deliver a misleading impression.
In the Cleantechnica example, instead of showing the relative ratio in absolute terms over time of fossil fuels (71.1% to 67.5%) compared to renewables (8.8% to 12.9%) they instead show us a truncated chart that only shows net change percents will no starting point that can give a clue as to the actual and relative size of each.
.
Miss T must be really pissed at Deuce this time......
ReplyDeleteCome back, Miss T.
We all get tired of just seeing rat crap on the walls.
A little of your humor is in order.
He said "rat crap".
DeleteI guess you didn't notice he didn't cap the rat…
Jack shit is so stoned… again
So this is your defense of Zionism, of the Apartheid Regime.
DeleteStay the Course !
Stoner boy? Did you say something?
DeleteMy defense of Israel?
EASY.
You want us dead, we will not allow you the privilege of murder without a fight. Fuck off..
:)
More lies, dissembling and fraud from "Ordure.
DeleteNo one wats "them" dead, whomever "they" are.
It is the Zionists that have been killing Palestinian children at the rate of 13 per month for the entirety of the 21st Century
"O"rdure speaks of fantasies in his mind and projects them, Jack Hawkins speaks of realities.
Provable points, which "O"rdure can never seem to muster.
Because they exist only in his mind.
Bob, she has chosen to hang with the Adults at the Belmont Club. Maybe you should too!
DeleteIt is funny that all those times she stomped out of here never to return she exited with a post informing us all she was gone, for good. This time all it took was a delete from the Blog Administrator and she is forever silent.
Bob OreilleFri Jul 25, 04:41:00 AM EDT
ReplyDeleteQuirk has no more idea what actually happened than anyone else'
.......Israel's military said it had acted "against a terrorist target located in a populated area", promising a probe into what happened.
"I accept it could have been Israeli fire" that landed on the UN school in Gaza, Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev said......
But that doesn't prevent him from mouthing and frothing.
Bob, Bob, Bob,
Quirk "feels" deeply and is unmoved by evidence. He also reads at the speed of light. That is why you are wasting your time.
None of these chaps have any interest in Israel or Palestine, as they have repeatedly written. Therefore, you are mistaken.
I have no idea what an "alternate history of the universe" would be; we are still deciphering the original one, led in large measure by Jewish scientists.
As to the UN school incident, Hamas chose the battleground. Anyone having experienced war knows that shit happens in the heat of battle and as the UN spokesman wrote, "there was fierce fighting in the surrounding streets." If an Israeli shell hit the school, I would not be surprised - too bad, so sad. But Israelis were fighting for their lives and, again, Hamas chose the place to fight - in and around the school - too bad, so sad. I am waiting to learn how many tunnel entrances were in that UN school.
As for the UN, I think Tzipi Livni got it just right, “Get lost.”
Meanwhile, the American public continues to support Israel and the Egyptians have Kerry in cold storage.
"the Egyptians have Kerry in cold storage"
Delete:)
They got old dog face in the kennel alright.
It seems that the "school" was hit by a hamas rocket.
DeleteI hope the evidence proves it out...
No matter...
They funny thing is? the "death toll" the press calculates? It is reported out of 809 names? 56 are duplicated and 9 are listed 6 times.
Not to mention the executions by hamas of so called collaborators are (9) are listed too...
Not a mention of any count of hamas fighters since hamas instructed them to be listed as "civilians"
.
DeleteQuirk "feels" deeply and is unmoved by evidence. He also reads at the speed of light. That is why you are wasting your time.
More nonsense from the Lobby. My post was about the self-serving IDF statement sans any type of proof that Hamas had prevented people from leaving the UN facility. Idaho Bob responds with a statement of the the obvious, that Israel didn't deny bombing the place. Quirk may read at the speed of light but it is evident Bob's reading can at best be called selective.
Then the spokesman for all Jews everywhere offers up the 'fog of war argument' one that served McNamara well, this despite the fact that the UN posted the coordinates with the IDF ahead of time.
Laughable.
.
No not "fog of war"
DeleteMore like shit happens, and if you fire weapons either from a school or next door of a school? It's on your head if there are civilian who get whacked.
But there are PLENY of videos showing Hamas rounding up and encouraging folks to get up on the roof and or being human shields
Sorry but at this point the matter is easy...
Hamas wants me personally dead. I don't wish to die. And if hamas seeks to kill me? Hamas can have a wall of babies protecting them, I will shoot thru them to kill the killers...
allen wrote (more than once) "...too bad, so sad."
DeleteGood old allen, kids get killed "too bad, so sad" Spoken like the Israeli apologist that he is.
ummm, no allen, Hamas did not choose the ground for the fight. They are penned up in Gaza and the IDF have invaded. Not only did the UN folk notify the IDF of their location they repeatedly asked to be able to evacuate. The IDF never responded, kids killed and allen says "too bad, so sad." No wonder why you have failed to notice this current war isn't playing well outside of Israel. "too bad, so sad."
“'UNRWA strongly condemns the group or groups responsible for placing the weapons in one of its installations' wrote Christopher Gunness, director of advocacy and strategic relations for UNRWA. Today, UN chief Ban Ki-Moon revealed his dismay at learning that at least one of the two caches has “disappeared” after being handed over by UNRWA to unidentified persons."
ReplyDelete...sweet... "Take your rockets, you bad boys, and go away"! ... ... ... "And don't even think about storing them in the school on Arafat Street."
Now this is funnier than SHIT
Deletehttp://vimeo.com/101431610
A Hamas funeral, and an suicide vest goes off...
Priceless.
That says a lot, an awful lot, about the level to which you have sunk WiO. How you know it was a Hamas funeral and that a suicide vest went off I have no idea but even if true there is nothing funny about the slaughter depicted in that video.
DeleteI've always wondered how some Germans could do what they did back in the day. Watching folk like you help me understand the psychology of it.
Report: Hamas Morale Collapsing, Terrorists Flee IDF
ReplyDeleteby Joel B. Pollak 25 Jul 2014, 7:56 AM PDT
In an otherwise excellent article on the Hamas terror tunnel network in Gaza, the Jerusalem Post buries the lede. An Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldier in the field told the Post that while Hamas fighters offered fierce resistance when the ground operation began, now Hamas operatives are fleeing, abandoning their positions, leaving behind weapons and other material that the IDF is using to expand its assault on the terror group.
The source added that in recent days, a recognizable wave of demoralization has washed over Hamas's combat battalions. "They simply escape, leaving behind weapons and suicide bomb vests that were laid out for battle. This morning we stormed a position, and they just weren't there. I don't see a determined enemy. We have encountered stronger pockets of fighting in the past. But now, I would not give them a high grade for fighting spirit."
Using further eyewitness reports, the article describes how Hamas has integrated the tunnel network into the civilian infrastructure of Gaza, constructing entrances in homes and even mosques. "I have not entered one civilian home that did not have weapons, suicide belts, or booby traps in it," the source told the Post, stressing the lengths to which the IDF goes to protect innocent civilians caught in the crossfire, regardless.
The reports of a collapse in Hamas fighters' morale lends credence to other reports that Hamas leaders were considering a temporary truce suggested by U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry. The organization has insisted in the past on making a ceasefire conditional on the removal of the international blockade of Gaza, which exists to prevent Hamas from importing weapons and materials to build its terror network even further than it has.
faster and faster...
DeleteNancy Pelosi in the News -
ReplyDeleteHouse Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi doubled down on her comments that Americans should view the flood of children crossing the border while claiming refugee status just like baby Jesus.
Pelosi reminded reporters that it was the National Conference of Catholic Bishops that used the baby Jesus analogy. She then suggested that if Moses hadn’t have been accepted by the Egyptians, then there wouldn’t be the Ten Commandments.
“You could even speak about, if it’s your tradition, Moses,” she said. “What would we do if Moses had not been accepted by the pharaoh's family? We wouldn’t have the Ten Commandments for starters.”
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/07/25/Nancy-Pelosi-Moses-Was-A-Refugee-Too-Just-Like-Baby-Jesus
Moses was an Egyptian. A Hyksos Egyptian.
DeleteFrom a long line of Hyksos Egyptians.
Egypt being a melting pot, a polyglot society.
Back in the day ....
DeleteActually he was a Jew.
DeleteLIVING in Egypt.
Your reading skills seem to go down inversely with the number tokes you take...
Blessed Mother Mary was a Swedish Protestant.
DeleteBut Joseph was a Moslem.
There were no Jews, back in the day.
DeleteThe word Jew is not in the Torah, it is not mentioned.
It is an English word, which like Semite, has been hijacked and corrupted.
But rest assured, Moses was not a Jew.
They are a much more modern invention,
Thanks for your insight into "Jewish" history.
DeleteWith all due respect (and there is none) who cares about your opinion?
Really?
No, no, no........Blessed Mother Mary was a Catholic, and Baby Jesus was a Mormon.
ReplyDeleteJesus was Scandinavian.
ReplyDeleteJust look at His pictures.
Jesus was Polish.
ReplyDeleteJesus was a Filipino, like me.
ReplyDeleteHe was half Cherokee, like me.
ReplyDeleterat is going to need to quit smoking that stuff in the Bar.
ReplyDeleteIt's making everyone c r a z y
You already were
DeleteJuly 25, 2014
ReplyDeleteDr. Krauthammer's theory of Obama
By Thomas Lifson
Of late, President Obama’s passivity towards events abroad and focus on fundraising and fun has been regarded as something of a puzzle, by both his opponents and some of his fellow Democrats, including California’s Senior Senator Dianne Feinstein. With the world visibly careening toward violence, why is the president focused on golf and political cash? The current buzzword is “optics” (meaning “appearances,” a perfectly good word -- as is “optics,” construed as a branch of physics, its original meaning). How on earth, goes the puzzlement, can the president ignore his grave responsibilities?
Charles Krauthammer, a highly credentialed but currently non-practicing psychiatrist, has an intriguing answer, one that focuses on ideology, not psychology. Writing in National Review:
Obama’s passivity stems from an idea. When Obama says Putin has placed himself on the wrong side of history in Ukraine, he actually believes it. He disdains realpolitik because he believes that, in the end, such primitive 19th-century notions as conquest are self-defeating. History sees to their defeat.
“The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice” is one of Obama’s favorite sayings. Ultimately, injustice and aggression don’t pay. The Soviets saw their 20th-century empire dissolve. More proximally, U.S. gains in Iraq and Afghanistan were, in time, liquidated. Ozymandias lies forever buried and forgotten in desert sands.
Impersonal forces of history, bending in a certain direction. Dr. Krauthammer knows where this theory of history comes from (Hegel and Marx), but he studiously avoids specifying its origins, probably a wise move, considering it is held to be gauche to impugn Obama as anything resembling a Marxist. In the world since Joe McCarthy, that simply isn’t done, dahling.
Let history do the dirty work:
If you really believe this, then there is no need for forceful, potentially risky U.S. counteractions. Which explains everything since: Obama’s pinprick sanctions; his failure to rally a craven Europe; his refusal to supply Ukraine with the weapons it has been begging for.
The shooting down of a civilian airliner seemed to validate Obama’s passivity. “Violence and conflict inevitably lead to unforeseen consequences,” explained Obama. See. You play with fire, it will blow up in your face. Just as I warned. Now world opinion will turn against Putin.
As if “world opinion” means anything. Dr. K has been around long enough and read enough history to realize this is a chimera:
To which I say: So what? World opinion, by itself, is useless: malleable, ephemeral and, unless mobilized by leadership, powerless. History doesn’t act autonomously. It needs agency.
In the long run, as Keynes famously noted, we are all dead:
Of course, in the long run nothing lasts. But history is lived in the here and now. The Soviets had only 70 years, Hitler a mere twelve. Yet it was enough to murder millions and rain ruin on entire continents. Bashar Assad, too, will one day go. But not before having killed at least 100,000 people.
All domination must end. But after how much devastation?
Such costs are immaterial to those who believe in great forces of history. Witness the death toll imposed by Lenin, Stalin, and Mao, surpassing even Hitler in the 20th century. I fear Dr. K’s theory, because if it is correct, we are in for one helluva ride the next 2 and a half years. There’s a lot of history ahead, just as there was one hundred years ago, in late July.
My theory is Obama is using again, and just doesn't care about much else.
DeleteBob Beckel said the other day he'd done dope in the White House.
Deletehttp://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/07/24/Infant-Among-Mass-Casualties-As-Hamas-Continues-To-Stage-Attacks-In-Highly-Populated-Areas
ReplyDeleteINFANT AMONG CASUALTIES AS HAMAS CONTINUES TO STAGE ATTACKS USING HUMAN SHIELDS
“According to IDF spokesperson Peter Lerner, the UNRWA facility had been ignoring demands to evacuate the shelter for the past three days. Additionally, Israel had provided a four hour humanitarian window between 10AM - 2PM local time specifically so UNRWA could evacuate the premises.”
“Journalists have documented Hamas to be using mosques, hospitals, schools, and heavily populated areas as cover for their terror operations against Israel. A report by the Washington Post recounted, ‘During the lull, a group of men at a mosque in northern Gaza said they had returned to clean up the green glass from windows shattered in the previous day’s bombardment. But they could be seen moving small rockets into the mosque.’ Additionally, a Wall Street Journal correspondent showcased how Hamas had been using a hospital as a staging ground for its operations.”
Obviously, the Washington Post and Wall Street Journal are part of an "alternate universe"; one in which facts trump bigotry.
DeleteAt this point? the IDF needs to defeat Hamas and defeat them 100%.
DeleteUnconditional surrender are the terms.
All Hamas members will be either shot on sight unless they surrender. If the surrender? The will be placed in a POW camp, until there is a peace treaty with a new government in the territories. IF any of those that surrender are found guilty of war crimes they will be sentenced separately.
Yep those would deb my terms.
The negev can house 50k POWs with ease.
and every Palestinian is a Hamas member from your POV. That's a pipe dream "the IDF needs to defeat Hamas and defeat them 100%." and the fact that you now believe the NEED to do it you are bound for failure. As your pal allen is wont to say "too bad, so sad".
Delete.
ReplyDeleteEverything is political in OZ.
Estimates on the cost of firing one Iron Dome missile range from $50,000 to $100,000 per. Israel has been using up a lot of their supply. An emergency request in the Senate for an additional $225 million in aid for Israel to replenish its supply has been tied by Democratic Senator Barbara Mikulski to the $3.7 billion immigration bill.
Get China on the phone and tell them we will be looking to borrow a little more than anticipated.
.
It would be cheaper to cut off all power and water to the strip and announce that all gazans need to leave the city and move to the beaches.
DeleteThen level gaza..
do what the russians and the americans do...
do what the brits and the french did and do...
do what every other nation on the planet has done..
From dresden to fallujah, from hiroshima to iwo jima
.
DeleteDisplacement of civilian populations in Palestine has been the goal of certain whack-job, fringe elements in the Zionist movement since the beginning. You fit right in.
.
It is hardly the radical fringe who have hoped/helped displace the Palestinian population Quirk. It is, rather, the sentiments of the mainstream in the Zionist movement. What do you think is involved in a "Jewish State"?
Delete.
DeleteMerely, from what I have read I would think you are confusing two things, a 'Jewish State' and a 'Greater Israel.' When I said a few, I meant in relative terms and the comment was based on the words of Zionists prominent enough to be quoted. There is no doubt that the apparent influence of right-wing/settler/ultra-orthodox voices seems to be growing in the current government.
.
It goes back to 1947/1948 when the Irgun were blowing up houses and driving out Palestinians living there. They also fled when the Arabs declared war and the Israelis never let them return. They took their homes and land for their own. Then Israel began it's expansion both through war (usually defensive) and the building of settlements. Ariel Sharon referred to the settlements as "facts on the ground" and they served the purpose of achieving the Zionist dream of Eretz Israel (Israel with the borders from the river to the sea). Many have said (Ariel Sharon included) that the Palestinians already have a state - it is called Jordan. Late in Ariel Sharon's life he came to realize that there was a problem - if Israel were to exist from the Sea to the River then Jews could become the minority. He sided with keeping Israel Jewish. Contemporary Israel faces a similar problem - if they get the borders from the Sea to the River then how can the be Jewish. Note how WiO and Allen consistently refer to driving the Palestinians out and not co-existing with them. No, they do not represent the whack-job fringe but rather mainstream Zionism.
Delete.
DeleteI am not going to argue the finer points of Zionism with you, Ash. I just offered my opinion. You offer up Ariel Sharon's views on both a Jewish State and a Greater Israel, assume there is no distinction, and then project them onto the rest of the Zionists, the same thing you complain the other side in this little kerfluffle does.
Mine was a general statement about Zionists going back to its more or less formalized beginnings in the 19th century.
Displacement of civilian populations in Palestine has been the goal of certain whack-job, fringe elements in the Zionist movement since the beginning.
I said that it seems that hard-line right-wing thought seemed to be gaining ascendancy in the Israeli government in recent years but that was just my opinion.
.
Yes, I think you are right that the hard line right wing thought is gaining ascendancy in recent years, well, greater ascendancy. I think it has always been predominant and any two-state solution was primarily lip-service for foreign consumption. There are some doves in Israel but they are being further sidelined. I don't think Allen is on the fringe at all. WiO more so but, as Allen has defended him, his language is just more 'colorful'. I think the basics are there - Israel as a Jewish State from the River to the Sea. The debate revolves around how to get there from here.
Delete.
DeleteThat I can agree with. IMO, talk of a negotiated settlement is starry-eyed and unrealistic. Despite a couple of PM's over the years who I think actually thought they would eventually be able to negotiate a settlement, all that has ever been accomplished (despite the rewarding of numerous Peace Prizes) was a discussion about process, that is, all they ever did was negotiate about negotiating.
I don't see anything changing in the foreseeable future.
.
The politics in Israel is interesting with their proportional representation system. Smaller right wing parties seem to gain more power than warranted via the vote through bargaining to form and maintain governments but the tendency appears an ever further slide to the right. The Labour Party used to have a firm share of power but not so now it seems.
DeleteI don't see anything changing in the near term unless major enablers (i.e. the US) actually use their power to effect the pocketbook of Israel. The outsized reaction to the FAA limiting flights to Israel indicates that they might negotiate in better faith if concerted financial pressure were brought to bear.
.
DeleteRereading what I just posted, I see I didn't really touch on your first point which I also agree with, referring to the move towards a Greater Israel..
We see it expressed in the words and views of PM's such as Shamir, Sharon, and Netanyahu.
Likewise, we have talked of the growing right-wing thought which is reinforced by demographic considerations, such as, growing populations, security needs, and the exploitation of limited resources. Of course there are also offsets that would likely delay rapid attainment of the goal. These include the increased security costs, the hit to Israel's reputation worldwide, and the changes to Israeli self-view image that would follow.
As for the slide to the right, that is aided by demographics and political savvy on the right. The settlers and the ultra-orthodox have a disproportionate voice and consequently a bigger say in politics. That could change. However, the people most affected by Israel's bifurcated system, the Israeli Arabs fail to even vote in large numbers due to their frustration with the system.
In the long run, I see both sides as having screwed the pooch.
IMO, the Palestinians would have been much better off had the adopted a non-violent approach to seeking redress from their grievances. Work stoppages, general strikes, peaceful protests, a well designed program to focus world attention on the abuses they suffer. It has been 45 years. There is no way it could have been less effective than what they have been doing.
As for the Israelis, had they absorbed the West Bank and Gaza at the beginning as spoils of war, IMO, there is a good possibility the world would have forgotten about it by now and moved on as it so often does, just like it did with Russia and Crimea. However, IMO, it is too late now. The kabuki has continued too long. Expectations have been raised. The only path left seems to be the slow absorption process being used now, like a snake slowly ingesting a mouse.
.
The Palestinians have not, to put it mildly, helped their cause and it is unlikely that they will moderate given the conditions under which they are kept. The death spiral dance continues.
DeleteObama is now at 39% approval in the Gallup three day tracking poll, with 54% disapproving.
ReplyDelete7% are smoking weed with rat and have no intelligible opinion on anything.
.
DeleteIn other domestic news -
ReplyDeletePETA Offers To Pay Water Bills For Detroit Residents -- Who Go Vegan........drudge
Quirk, munching on the last of his mystery meat sandwich, and drinking from a hose in a park, weighs his options.........
Gallup: Israel’s critics are younger, less educated, less informed and more Democratic
ReplyDeleteHot Air
In other words, they are a lot like Ash.
If you are an example what older educated and informed looks like - no thanks!
DeleteAn acceptable reply, noble youth.
DeleteNow get off your arse, do something creative - head to Montreal, and liberate Casey's body.
DeleteYour chance for fame, and girls.
In a dramatic development of international import, Casey Kasem's body may have been located in Canada -
ReplyDeleteCasey Kasem's body could be kept in Montreal funeral home for months and his children may never know where he is to be buried, his family fears
Family spokesman told MailOnline they fear body is being stored in funeral home in Montreal
Say widow Jean - who is at war with his children - is 'playing games' and they could never find out where his burial is
Jean moved body to Montreal on July 14 - a month after his death
Was flown there just before daughter won restraining order from judge to stop Jean cremating body in the U.S.
Published: 16:53 EST, 24 July 2014 | Updated: 17:06 EST, 24 July 2014
Casey Kasem's dead body could be locked away in a funeral home for months and the star's children may never know where he is to be buried, his family told MailOnline today.
A spokesman for the family said they fear his body is being stored in a funeral home in Montreal while his widow Jean 'plays games' with other family members that she has been at war with during Casey's last few years of his life.
There is no time limit to how long he can be kept in the undignified state and Jean has sole control of his remains and is under no obligation to tell anyone where he is or what she intends to do with them.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2704769/Casey-Kasems-body-kept-freezer-months-children-never-know-buried-family-fear.html#ixzz38VYh5w9L
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
http://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-confirms-deaths-of-two-soldiers-friday-and-former-mia-raising-toll-to-35/
ReplyDeleteSoldier killed by anti-tank missile fired from near UN school, raising IDF toll to 35
DeleteBlood for nothing and the chicks ain't free, in Tel Aviv
http://www.timesofisrael.com/two-killed-in-fierce-clashes-near-jerusalem-rocket-downed-over-eilat/
ReplyDeleteIsrael rejects Kerry ceasefire proposal; IDF death toll rises to 35
Meanwhile, Hamas continues firing rockets into Israel. When last heard, Ben Gurion is taking American traffic but some in the EU (e.g. Germany) remain reluctant.
An Air Canada flight had to "go around again" because of incoming fire as it approached last night.
Delete...all the more reason to break Hamas and intimidate the West Bank...As earlier written, this is an existential war and must be won decisively. There can be no doubt that Israel is as secure as was the US on 10 Sep 2001.
Deletea dip in the tourist trade represents an existential threat to Israel? I don't think so!
DeleteYes, you are not thinking. Let me help.
DeleteAshFri Jul 25, 03:17:00 PM EDT
An Air Canada flight had to "go around again" because of incoming fire as it approached last night.
And this threatens the existence of Israel how?
Deletehttp://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/25/isil-terrorists-blow-burial-site-jonah-vow-more-sa/
ReplyDeleteISIL terrorists blow up burial site of Jonah, vow more of same
To be fair, IS has also destroyed fourteen (14) mosques and Shia holy sites during the past few days. As should be well known by now, all Christians in Mosel have been driven into exile and their 1800 year old church/monastery destroyed.
There is no word from Mosel whether the clit cutting has begun. IS's latest insanity may affect up to 4,000,000 women and girls. "Silent John" has made no public comment to my knowledge, being fully engaged with trying to save Hamas from ruin.
Damned Jews!
Bob OreilleFri Jul 25, 02:57:00 PM EDT
ReplyDeleteIn a dramatic development of international import, Casey Kasem's body may have been located in Canada -
Hark! Hear I the sound of thundering hoof beats? Is Sir John on his way?
What is "Occupation"Fri Jul 25, 01:49:00 PM EDT
ReplyDeleteAt this point? the IDF needs to defeat Hamas and defeat them 100%.
An idea cannot be defeated other than by its rejection by the culture which spawned it. "Death to Jews" and "Back to the Ovens" are going to be with us for a long time in Europe and the PA.
What can be defeated is the will to risk war for such a sick cause. Per von Clausewitz, victory is attained by either the defeat of the enemy's armed forces or breaking his will to fight. The latter is doable, if the tottering Mr. Netanyahu can be held upright for a bit longer. From information I have garnered, it took the leadership of his coalition and his cabinet, in a “come to Jesus” meeting, to get him on board the land battle. He is a pathetically reluctant warrior as is his chief-of-staff.
Below is some propaganda disseminated by Netanyahu's followers, I believe. It was meant to stimulate the cabinet and Israelis generally into accepting a ceasefire based upon the alleged humiliation of Hamas. Given the continued rocket fire and firefights going on in Gaza, Hamas's troops did not get the message.
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/If-we-dont-deal-with-Gaza-tunnels-now-these-threats-will-come-to-us-368922
'If we don't deal with Gaza tunnels now, these threats will come to us'
“The source added that in recent days, a recognizable wave of demoralization has washed over Hamas's combat battalions. ‘They simply escape, leaving behind weapons and suicide bomb vests that were laid out for battle. This morning we stormed a position, and they just weren't there. I don't see a determined enemy. We have encountered stronger pockets of fighting in the past. But now, I would not give them a high grade for fighting spirit.’"
That isn't why they've gone to war Allen. They want the blockade of Gaza ended.
DeleteHmm...Egypt is blockading as well. Egypt has not been attacked by the rocketmen. If fact, it is Egypt's blockade which is causing by far the most economic damage to Gaza. The tunnels in Israel were not built for trade but for war.
DeleteAfter this dust up, Ash, I doubt you will see an end to the blockade by either Egypt or Israel. Hamas is dangerous and has to be caged.
New Mexico dumps more fuel on the Halbig "domain & a splashpage fix" fire
ReplyDeleteSubmitted by Charles Gaba on Friday, July 25, 2014 - 1:55pm.
Source:
BizJournals, 07/25/14: New issuer to sell policies on NM insurance exchange
.
Hat Tip To:
Esther Ferington
.
Nice find by Esther F. The main focus of the story is that a 5th insurance company has decided to join 4 others on New Mexico's ACA exchange, which is of course good news for competition, the free market and so forth...
The newest insurer is CHRISTUS Health Plan of Texas, Franchini said during a meeting of the NMHIX board in Santa Fe.
“CHRISTUS is a nonprofit and they will be on the exchange. They will be the fifth carrier on the exchange,” Franchini said.
CHRISTUS will join New Mexico Health Connections, Presbyterian Health Plan, Blue Cross and Blue Shield of New Mexico and Molina Healthcare of New Mexico as the firms that will sell in the individual exchange.
...however, Esther notes a potentially far more significant section of the story farther down. The backstory is this: New Mexico has been planning on running their own exchange for the 2nd year of open enrollment, but has more recently been having second thoughts given the various technical issues faced by some of the other state exchanges. Therefore...
The NMHIX board is expected to decide today whether to stay for another year on the federal individual exchange, HealthCare.gov, or operate an independent, state-based exchange.
Board member Dr. Martin Hickey said federal officials have already certified New Mexico has a state-based exchange, which means New Mexicans who buy on the federal exchange will be eligible for federal premium subsidies.
Huh. Well, now...if that's the case, then that not only resolves the Halbig issue for New Mexico, but presumably for Idaho, Nevada, Massachusetts and Oregon as well, all of which are either moving from HC.gov to their own exchange or from their own exchange over to HC.gov this fall (or possibly staying put in MA's case).
However, this also underscores that just because a state has had their enrollments purchased via Healthcare.Gov, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're part of an exchange "NOT established by the State" either.
More ambiguity and wiggle room here. It sounds like any state could indeed set up any sort . . . . . . .
The $10.00 Fix
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/25/a-new-facebook-page-dedicated-to-the-idf-is-being-flooded-with-sexy-selfies.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Farticles+%28The+Daily+Beast+-+Latest+Articles%29
ReplyDeleteA New Facebook Page Dedicated to the IDF Is Being Flooded With Sexy Selfies
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ReplyDeleteNo Woman No Cry
.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113471298
ReplyDeleteFrench prime minister: Behind hatred of Israel lies hatred of Jews
I don't read Hebrew, and I don't have any idea as to how well this gal reads it. I just happened to run across this, and thought I would share it.
ReplyDelete"Okay, so I was challenged below: "Read the Bible! God gave the land of Israel to the Jewish people." So....I may get crucified for this but I have started to say it -- most recently (terrified, trembling) to warm welcome in a synagogue in LA: Actually if you read Genesis Exodus and Deuteronomy in Hebrew -- as I do -- you see that God did not "give" Israel to the Jews/Israelites. We as Jews are raised with the creed that "God gave us the land of Israel" in Genesis -- and that ethnically 'we are the chosen people." But actually -- and I could not believe my eyes when I saw this, I checked my reading with major scholars and they confirmed it -- actually God's "covenant" in Genesis, exodus and Deuteronomy with the Jewish people is NOT ABOUT AN ETHNICITY AND NOT ABOUT A CONTRACT. IT IS ABOUT A WAY OF BEHAVING.
Again and again in the "covenant" language He never says: "I will give you, ethnic Israelites, the land of Israel." Rather He says something far more radical - far more subversive -- far more Godlike in my view. He says: IF you visit those imprisoned...act mercifully to the widow and the orphan...welcome the stranger in your midst...tend the sick...do justice and love mercy ....and perform various other tasks...THEN YOU WILL BE MY PEOPLE AND THIS LAND WILL BE YOUR LAND. So "my people" is not ethnic -- it is transactional. We are God's people not by birth but by a way of behaving, that is ethical, kind and just. And we STOP being "God's people" when we are not ethical, kind and just. And ANYONE who is ethical, kind and just is, according to God in Genesis, "God's people." And the "contract" to "give" us Israel is conditional -- we can live in God's land IF we are "God's people" in this way -- just, merciful, compassionate. AND -- it never ever says, it is ONLY your land. Even when passages spell out geographical "boundaries" as if God does such a thing, it never says this is exclusively your land. It never says I will give this land JUST to you. Remember these were homeless nomads who had left slavery in Egypt and were wandering around in the desert; at most these passages say, settle here, but they do not say, settle here exclusively. Indeed again and again it talks about welcoming "zarim" -- translated as "strangers" but can also be translated as "people/tribes who are not you" -- in your midst. Blew my mind, hope it blows yours."
Naomi Wolf
She is correct to the extent that the covenant is conditional. While I do not recall off the top of my head, I would guess the Torah admonishes Jews about 500 times to treat "strangers" (non-Hebrew residents) justly. "There shall be one law". Everyone is to be treated identically under law, whether Jew or Gentile. To the extent that Jews fail in this, they fail to meet the conditions of the covenant.
DeleteThat said, the state of Israel has the right to live in peace in perpetuity. This will be possible when Islam abandons its drive to conquer the world and kill all Jews.
We are a long way from that.
That is exactly what the Rabbis are saying at the sites availble to be viewed when the Google search ...
Delete"Judaism vs Zionism" is done, amongst other things that disparage the conflation of Judaism and Zionism.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Judaism+vs+Zionism&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb
Jack HawkinsFri Jul 18, 12:36:00 AM EDT
DeleteI mean, you are an Israeli, and here is nothing worse than that.
In all the world, the Arabs of Israel are the scum.
Now if you were a European, well thatd be different, but Israelis are all Arabs, Semites.
Scum of the Earth
;-)
Have a nightmare tonight and a shitty tomorrow,
QuirkFri Jul 18, 01:13:00 AM EDT
.
And the voice of the rat is heard in the land.
And the world once again cringes.
http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Report-Kerry-cautiously-optimistic-cease-fire-deal-could-be-struck-Friday-368935
ReplyDeleteIsrael to observe 12-hour unilateral cease-fire in Gaza
...brilliant, BiBi...
He wants a way out but he doesn't want to 'talk' to Hamas and he doesn't want to end the blockade...
Delete...he's put himself (and a lot of other people) in a sticky situation.
DeleteBlood for nothin' and the chicks ain't free, in Tel Aviv
Jack HawkinsFri Jul 18, 12:36:00 AM EDT
DeleteI mean, you are an Israeli, and here is nothing worse than that.
In all the world, the Arabs of Israel are the scum.
Now if you were a European, well thatd be different, but Israelis are all Arabs, Semites.
Scum of the Earth
;-)
Have a nightmare tonight and a shitty tomorrow,
QuirkFri Jul 18, 01:13:00 AM EDT
.
And the voice of the rat is heard in the land.
And the world once again cringes.
allenFri Jul 25, 04:49:00 PM EDT
ReplyDeletehttp://www.democraticunderground.com/113471298
French prime minister: Behind hatred of Israel lies hatred of Jews
These Jews disagree with that Gentile
Delete"Zionism is Racism. Judaism is not Zionism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsCBn6Qhow4
They compare Zionism to Nazism - they are Jewish.
and this fellow ...
Rabbi Dovid Weiss on Judaism, Israel and Zionism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2SYMj41Q9U
The number of Jews that disagree with the President of France, is just astounding.
AshFri Jul 25, 05:08:00 PM EDT
ReplyDeleteHe wants a way out but he doesn't want to 'talk' to Hamas and he doesn't want to end the blockade...
...he's put himself (and a lot of other people) in a sticky situation.
I am convinced that in the not too distant future he will be the "former" prime minister. Like LBJ and Olmert, he is playing games with the lives of troops. That will not go unnoticed.
DeleteBlood for nothin' and the chicks ain't free, in Tel Aviv
He seems to be responding to folk like you who urge full on attack but, I think, he realizes that the military cannot solve the problem as you think it might so he's done half-steps but in either case (full or half stepping) the end will still be a quagmire of seething radicalized gazans penned up in their prison by the sea.
DeleteJack HawkinsFri Jul 18, 12:36:00 AM EDT
DeleteI mean, you are an Israeli, and here is nothing worse than that.
In all the world, the Arabs of Israel are the scum.
Now if you were a European, well thatd be different, but Israelis are all Arabs, Semites.
Scum of the Earth
;-)
Have a nightmare tonight and a shitty tomorrow,
QuirkFri Jul 18, 01:13:00 AM EDT
.
And the voice of the rat is heard in the land.
And the world once again cringes.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.ria.ru/world/20140725/191242509/Ukrainian-Air-Defense-Exercises-Might-be-Behind-Malaysian.html
A source within the Ukrainian defense department claims that Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was accidentally shot down by Ukrainian troops during a military exercise in near Donetsk which took place on July 17.
“On July 17 the commanding officer of 156th Anti-Aircraft Regiment was instructed to conduct a training exercise of ground troops stationed near Donetsk, which involved deploying the troops, and carrying out a routine tracking and destroying of targets with the Buk-M1 missile,” the source told RIA Novosti.
Although actual use of the rockets was not intended, they were accidentally fired off when two Sukhoi Su-25 combat aircraft flew parallel with but at a different altitude than the Boeing 777, claims the source. When the three aircraft merged and became a single dot on the missile ‘s radar system, the Buk-M1 automatically chose the larger target, leading to the demise of MH17.
...
In addition, the information correlates with what former AP and Newsweek investigative journalist Robert Parry was told by his intelligence source, which was that the U.S. is in possession of satellite imagery which shows men wearing Ukrainian army uniforms firing the missile system that brought down MH17.
Given that Parry won awards for his work exposing the Iran Contra scandal, one would imagine that he has built up some credible and influential sources over the past few decades.
Kiev has failed to release transcripts from air traffic control communications which were seized by Ukrainian security services immediately after the incident, although pilots on board an Air India Dreamliner which was flying just 90 seconds behind Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 say they heard Ukrainian air traffic control give the order for the doomed plane to change route minutes before MH17 was shot down by a missile.
riiiight, a Russian site quoting an "unnamed" Ukrainian. Russia's position -the rebels are shooting down Military aircraft no problem (before and after MH27) but, of course, it wasn't them who took out the passenger plane. Ya buy that do ya Jack? Good ole critical thinking at its finest!
DeleteAs good as Ukrainians posting anonymous videos.
DeleteThe highlight portion, and the same lack of transparency being said of the US satellite imagery, is the telling part of the report.
There is no clear evidence as tof who fired the rocket.
That is what a critical thinker would realize, Ash.
and use that absence to support your conspiracy theory, rock on!
DeleteThe Russians have released their radar imagry, which does show the two Ukrainian jets shadowing flight MH17.
DeleteThere is no one disputing the Air India report of Ukrainian air traffic control directing the flight directly into the altitude and route where it could be targeted.
There is no explanation as to why those instructions were given by the Ukrainian Air Traffic controlers
What "Conspiracy Theory"? It is no more or less a Conspiracy Theory that the Russian "did it".
DeleteNo more or less a "Conspiracy Theory" that the Syrian rebels were responsible for the poison gas attack in Syria.
No more or less a "Conspiracy Theory" than the Turks were planning false flag operations in Syria, before the recording were released on YouTube.
quickest route from a to b?
DeleteWhen there is no evidence, Ash, its absence is often evidence, in and of itself
DeleteRight over the SAM site.
DeleteMalaysia Airlines flight MH17 was flying just 1,000 feet (300 metres) above restricted airspace when it was shot down, according to the European air traffic control body.
Eurocontrol said Ukrainian authorities had barred aircraft from ground level to 32,000 feet but the doomed aircraft was cruising at 33,000 feet, still within range of sophisticated ground-to-air weaponry, when it was hit. All flights in eastern Ukraine have now been barred from the area, Eurocontrol added.
"The aircraft was flying at Flight Level 330 [approximately 10,000 metres/33,000 ft] when it disappeared from the radar," said. "This route had been closed by the Ukrainian authorities from ground to flight level 320 [32,000ft] but was open at the level at which the aircraft was flying."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-mh17-flying-just-above-restricted-airspace
DeleteMalaysian Airlines MH17 Was Ordered to Fly over the East Ukraine Warzone
DeleteMalaysian Airlines Confirms that it was Instructed to Fly MH17 at Lower Altitude over East Ukraine
http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-airlines-mh17-was-ordered-to-fly-over-the-east-ukraine-warzone/5392540
If you look at the graphic of the flight path you will see the Ukrainian Air Traffic Control not only brought MH17 to 33,000 feet, it also tracked it closer to the SAM site than the regular flight path across the country.
Deletehttp://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20flight%20paths_0.png
Flight path deviation graphic
Asking why the flight was deviated from the normal route and why the Ukrainians will not release the tape is not a conspiracy theory. It is basic journalism.
To race to confrontation with Russia, when the advesary will not release vital data sets as to the cause of the confrontation, is what, if not a moral and physical hazard?
While the audio records of the MH17 flight have been confiscated by the Kiev government, the order to change the flight path did not come from Eurocontrol.
DeleteDid this order to change the flight path come from the Ukrainian authorities? Was the pilot instructed to change course?
British Media Fabrications: “Lets Conjure Up a Storm”
British news reports acknowledge that there was a change in the flight path, claiming without evidence that it was to “avoid thunderstorms in southern Ukraine”.
MAS operations director Captain Izham Ismail has also refuted claims that heavy weather led to MH17 changing its flight plan.“There were no reports from the pilot to suggest that this was the case,” Izham said. (News Malaysia July 20, 2014)
What is significant, however, is that the Western media acknowledged that the change in the flight path did occur, and the that “heavy weather” narrative is a fabrication.
Ukraine Fighter Jets in a Corridor Reserved for Commercial Aircraft
It is worth noting that a Ukrainian SU-25 fighter jet equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles was detected within 5-10 km of the Malaysian aircraft, within an air corridor reserved for commercial aircraft.
What was the purpose of this air force deployment? Was the Ukraine fighter jet “escorting” the Malaysian aircraft in a Northerly direction towards the war zone?
DeleteThe change in the flight path for Malaysian airlines MH17 on July 17 is clearly indicated in the map below. It takes MH17 over the war zone, namely Donetsk and Lugansk.
CLICK IMAGES TO ENLARGE
Comparison: MH17 Flight Path on July 16, 2014, MH17 Flight Path Over the warzone on July 17, 2014
http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-airlines-mh17-was-ordered-to-fly-over-the-east-ukraine-warzone/5392540
The first dynamic map compares the two flight paths: The second flight path which is that of July 17th takes the plane over the Donesk oblast warzone, bordering onto Lugansk oblast.
The four static images indicate screen shots of the Flight Paths of MH17 for the period July 14-17, 2014
The information conveyed in these maps suggests that the flight path on July 17 was changed.
MH17 was diverted from the normal South Easterly route over the sea of Azov to a path over the Donetsk oblast.
Who ordered the change of the flight path?
We call upon Malaysian Airlines to clarify its official statement and demand the release of the audio files between the pilot and the Kiev air traffic control tower.
The transcript of these audio files should be made public.
Also to be confirmed: was the Ukrainian SU-25 jet fighter in communication with the M17 aircraft?
The evidence confirms that the flight path on July 17th was NOT the usual approved flight path. It had been changed.
The change was not ordered by Eurocontrol.
Who was behind this changed flight path which spearheaded the aircraft into the war zone, resulting in 298 deaths?
What was the reason for the change in flight path?
The damage incurred to Malaysian Airlines as a result of these two tragic occurrences must also be addressed. Malaysian airlines has high safety standards and an outstanding record.
These two accidents are part of a criminal undertaking.
They are not the result of negligence on the part of Malaysian Airlines, which potentially faces bankruptcy.
ReplyDeleteTEN QUESTIONS FOR THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES
1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these accusations based on?
2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems deployed there in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don’t have any planes?
3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an international commission? When will such a commission begin its work?
4. Would the Ukrainian Armed Forces be willing to let international investigators see the inventory of their air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, including those used in SAM launchers?
5. Will the international commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding the movements of Ukrainian warplanes on the day of the tragedy?
6. Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers allow the plane to deviate from the regular route to the north, towards “the anti-terrorist operation zone”?
7. Why was airspace over the warzone not closed for civilian flights, especially since the area was not entirely covered by radar navigation systems?
8. How can official Kiev comment on reports in the social media, allegedly by a Spanish air traffic controller who works in Ukraine, that there were two Ukrainian military planes flying alongside the Boeing 777 over Ukrainian territory?
9. Why did Ukraine’s Security Service start working with the recordings of communications between Ukrainian air traffic controllers and the Boeing crew and with the data storage systems from Ukrainian radars without waiting for international investigators?
10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a similar incident in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities denied any involvement on the part of Ukraine’s Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official Kiev to be guilty.
Ash, he's crazy.
ReplyDeleteAnd so are you. Just a couple of old whackos hanging out in the bar.
DeleteWell, then, that makes three of us, bar mate !!!
DeleteMy grandfather was walking his old mutt. Down the opposite way came a neighbor. They didn't like on another.
"Claus, that mutt is 1/2 Swede, 1/2 son of a bitch."
"Well, then, that makes him related to the both of us!" says my Swedish grandfather.
ar ar ar arf arf arf woof woof
one another
DeleteOur government lied us into Vietnam.
ReplyDeleteOur government lied us into Iraq.
Our government attempted to lie us into Syria.
I'm not ruling Anything out.
Never trust the Government.
ReplyDeleteIn God We Trust - not in the Government.
DeleteThen why in the world would you trust the Ukrainian government to tell you the truth?
When have I said I did?
DeleteThe evidence that the "Russians Did It" ....
ReplyDelete.... a YouTube video ....
The US government is not releasing the imagery it has.
The Ukrainians are not releasing the audio of the Air Traffic Controllers
The Ukrainians will not explain the rerouting of the aircraft.
Nor why their fighter jets were in the Commercial Flight corridor.
Robert Peterson thinks it is crazy to ask why.
But then he's never been put in danger by politicians lies.
He dodged that duty, when opportunity knocked.
Ah, rat, that's just plain down right mean. Gee whiz.
Delete