THIS IS THE SHIP THAT THE ISRAELIS AND THEIR APOLOGISTS AND PROPAGANDISTS CLAIM THAT THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE ATTACKING. IT IS A PREPOSTEROUS LIE:
Saturday, June 08, 2013
June 8th, is the 46th anniversary of the attack on the USS Liberty.
June 8th, is the 46th anniversary of the attack on the USS Liberty. This dastardly and criminal attack has been largely written out from the pages of history. The survivors have been called liars and anti Semites by the usual gang. It is long since time for the few survivors still left to be honored by Congress and rest of us. A lot of the worst interventionists today are those who support the terrorist regime who attacked the Liberty. It is time to bring home our troops, to their families, to guard these borders and shores. The Middle East and the world will be a better place without us meddling in their affairs.
THIS IS THE SHIP THAT THE ISRAELIS AND THEIR APOLOGISTS AND PROPAGANDISTS CLAIM THAT THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE ATTACKING. IT IS A PREPOSTEROUS LIE:
THIS IS THE SHIP THAT THE ISRAELIS AND THEIR APOLOGISTS AND PROPAGANDISTS CLAIM THAT THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE ATTACKING. IT IS A PREPOSTEROUS LIE:
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June 8th is the Belmont Stakes. A better waste of time than arguing this out again.
ReplyDeleteI am going to try the Superfecta if they have it.
bob
"A lot of the worst interventionists today are those who support the terrorist regime..."
DeleteWhat a lot of non sense and propaganda.
Out for the day.
bob
I did not expect you to be upset by the murder of American troops by a terroristic attack from Israel. Polish up your new AIPAC credentials and don’t be disturbed by all these lying American veterans. Whatever you do, do not listen to the interview on the second video.
ReplyDeleteMurder implies intent.
DeleteKilling is more accurate.
But why have standards?
The Israeli air force napalmed American sailors sunbathing on an American ship in international waters. That is terrorism. The Liberty had 200 crew and equipped for radio intercept. The radio operators heard Israeli reconnaissance planes describe an American ship with sailors sun bathing on the decks.
ReplyDeleteThe terrorist regime in Tel Aviv ordered the deaths of those American sailors by a napalm attack. That is terrorism.
Wow, the American ship (liberty) heard IN HEBREW the dialog discussing sunbathing saliors sunbathing.
Deletewow...
It's gets more and more astonishing by the post.
Next you will tell us the Israelis knew that innocent US sailers were having tea and what kind..
get real
The US Congress is so beholden to Aipac, that they will not investigate this naval holocaust.
ReplyDeleteThe death of 34 Americans on a specific boat is a tragedy. To call it a "naval holocaust" is specious.
DeleteNow maybe Pearl Harbor could be classified that way...
But one ship, with the loss of 34 and the wounding of 171, no matter how horrible, is NOT a naval holocaust. Unless you wish to classify all vessels with more deaths the same way.
The US Congress has.
DeleteReport Date issued Conclusion
C.I.A. report June 13, 1967 No malice; attack a mistake
U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry June 18, 1967 Mistaken identity
Report by Clark Clifford July 18, 1967 No evidence ship was known to be American
Senate Select Committee on Intelligence 1979/1981 No merit to claims attack was intentional
National Security Agency 1981 Mistaken identity
House Armed Services Committee 1991/1992 No support for claims attack was intentional
Last I checked the House Armed Services Committee is Congress.
AND AIPAC has nothing to do with it. You are ranting again.
Today, June 8, marks the 46th anniversary of the attack by Israeli warplanes on the USS Liberty, a U.S. Naval reconnaissance vessel sailing in international waters during the Six Day War in 1967. During the attack, 34 American sailors died; 174 were wounded. The $40 million state-of-the-art vessel was destroyed.
ReplyDeleteIsrael attacked in unmarked planes. The Liberty flew a large U.S. flag in broad daylight. The Israelis shot down that flag, and the Americans hoisted another. Radio reports heard by both Americans and Israelis confirmed that the Israeli pilots received orders to ignore the American flag and attack anyway. One Israeli pilot refused and returned to base where he was arrested by his own government. Only through sheer courage and tenacity did the survivors make it back to port.
Of course Israel and their apologists claim the attack was an error. However, the list of people who have publicly stated they disbelieved the Israeli assertion of a “mistake” include the Medal of Honor decorated captain of the vessel, admirals, CIA directors, NSA directors, senators, congressmen and naval attaches.
Yet even 46 years later, attempts by the surviving crew members and their organization, the USS Liberty Veterans Association, to tell their story are still suppressed. This constitutes possibly the most shameful cover-up and betrayal of our fighting men in U.S. history.
Take the time to learn the facts for their sake and America’s sake. Google USS Liberty or visit gtr5.com.
MARK MURRAY
Washington
Learn the facts, read the sworn testimony of the investigations.
DeleteFour good Americans died in last September’s attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya.
ReplyDeleteNow there is a congressional investigation on what happened there and who was responsible. The press is digging up all kinds of information. Perhaps that is how it should be.
All this reminds me of the day in June 1967, when the USS Liberty was attacked by Israeli warplanes in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula.
The Liberty was flying U.S. colors and made repeated attempts to get the Israeli aircraft to turn away. Thirty-four U.S. sailors died that day and more than 170 were wounded.
There was never a congressional investigation. Personnel on the ship were later ordered to never discuss the incident. In short, our government did everything possible to cover up the incident.
Do you sometimes wonder if our government has its priorities straight?
There was an investigation by congress and 5 others by our nation.
DeleteNo reason to lie.
Maybe you dont agree with the results of the 6 investigations? fine
Report Date issued Conclusion
C.I.A. report June 13, 1967 No malice; attack a mistake
U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry June 18, 1967 Mistaken identity
Report by Clark Clifford July 18, 1967 No evidence ship was known to be American
Senate Select Committee on Intelligence 1979/1981 No merit to claims attack was intentional
National Security Agency 1981 Mistaken identity
House Armed Services Committee 1991/1992 No support for claims attack was intentional
but no reason to lie.
Julian: Forty-six years of silence
ReplyDeleteBy Richard Julian/Guest columnist
The MetroWest Daily News
Posted Jun 02, 2013 @ 12:30 AM
It was a strange winter day, unusually hot and muggy at the beach in Los Angeles. I was early for a lunch meeting with a movie producer at a trendy restaurant on the Redondo Pier, a place where big dreamers go to discuss their big ideas. A smooth-talking producer was hiring me to write on one of the most controversial events in American history, an incident so shameful the U.S. government scarcely acknowledges it.
The producer finally arrived and introduced himself as from South Africa, a man with ties to large international banks. He went on to say, with the hubris of a politician, “Hollywood is broken. The way they finance films is archaic! I have found a new way to make them.”
Sounded like the typical Hollywood hustle but I waited to hear more. “Have you ever heard of the USS Liberty?” he quietly asked, staring across the table. We’re going to shake up the world with this story.”
I wondered if I was ready to shake up the world. This story was too raw, too sensitive, too explosive. I decided I should do a little research first by contacting some of the survivors.
It wasn’t long before I was drawn into a world that I never knew existed. I was moved by these men, some of them sobbing over the phone to a total stranger as they shared their experiences. One survivor in particular, seaman Richard “Larry” Weaver seemed to have the most chilling and gut-wrenching experience of all.
Larry was a 21-year-old first bosun’s mate, fresh out of boot camp when he set sail aboard a unarmed intelligence ship called the USS Liberty. This was 1967 and tensions were flaring between Russia and the United States over the Vietnam War - and now the stakes were escalating.
The “Six Day War” was in full swing. Israel had just launched a massive assault on Egypt, Syria and Jordan.
The Liberty, with its sophisticated spy equipment, was floating in the Mediterranean within earshot of the Sinai Peninsula. “So close I could I could hear the bombs exploding,” Larry recalls.
On the morning of June 8, the skies were sunny and clear. The ship was in international waters and everyone felt safe. So safe, that crewmen were sun-tanning and playing Ffrisbee on the deck.
Larry was one of the first sailors hit. He was a lookout on the bow, going through his normal routine of checking instrumentation, when two unmarked Mirage fighter-jets came out of a blinding sun and attacked with lightning speed. They strafed the boat with armor-piercing bullets as Larry scrambled for cover. The jets crisscrossed and came back. This time Larry was unable to escape. A rocket blew a hole in his stomach and nearly tore him in half.
Read more: http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/opinion/x776199718/Julian-Forty-six-years-of-silence#ixzz2Vc5edFRF
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The “Six Day War” was in full swing. Israel had just launched a massive assault on Egypt, Syria and Jordan.
DeleteThe Liberty, with its sophisticated spy equipment, was floating in the Mediterranean within earshot of the Sinai Peninsula. “So close I could I could hear the bombs exploding,” Larry recalls.
So close they could hear the bombs explode.
What the heck were they doing there in the 1st place when the standing order of the day was NO AMERICAN SHIP within 100 miles?
Severely wounded and fighting to stay conscious, Larry crawled into a storage closet and watched in horror as his shipmates were obliterated with napalm, rockets and eventually a torpedo. The carnage so bad, there was a thick stream of blood flowing over the side of the ship.
ReplyDelete“I saw a lot of guys die,” he says, “and I could never understand why.”
The assault lasted for nearly an hour. When it was over, 34 American sailors were dead and 171 injured, out of 294 on board.
Larry was one of the most seriously hurt. Doctors counted 120 deep shrapnel wounds, he says. He was missing half his colon and his right leg was torn to shreds. No one expected him to live, but somehow he survived.
Sometimes he wishes he hadn’t.
An admiral’s threat
Larry Weaver woke up a few days later in intensive care, after his fifth major surgery to repair his colon. The ferociousness of the battle still a blur to him, he was shocked to find out that it wasn’t Egypt or Russia that had attacked the Liberty. It was America’s ally, Israel.
“This really blew my mind” he says, “I couldn’t believe that it was true.”
A few hours later his mind was blown again, when he was visited by Adm. Isaac Kidd. Larry thought it strange that a three-star admiral would take the time to talk to him.
The admiral shut the door behind him, Larry recalls, and began to take the brass stars off his sleeves. “All right now Larry”, he said, smiling, “I’m no longer an admiral. I want you to tell me everything you saw.”
“So I told the admiral everything I saw,” Larry says.
Larry remembers watching as the admiral calmly snapped his stars back on. “All right, now I’m an admiral again.” Then he became fierce and angry. “If you ever tell anyone what you saw - family, friends or anybody -you’ll be court-martialed, thrown in jail or even worse.”
“That was probably the roughest day of my life.” Larry recalls. “I was barely 20 years old and just went through the traumatic experience of almost dying and here I was being threatened by my own country.”
No one really knows the true reason Israel attacked the ship. Israel’s explanation was that it was simply a case of mistaken identity. They didn’t see a U.S. flag flying and mistook the Liberty for an Egyptian vessel that had fired on them the previous day.
Read more: http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/opinion/x776199718/Julian-Forty-six-years-of-silence#ixzz2Vc69zoBP
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There is something fishy here.
DeleteWHY WAS THE LIBERTY THERE spying on Israel in the 1st place?
Larry says Old Glory was definitely flying that day and he should know: “I was laying right under it when the rocket hit me and catapulted me five feet in the air.”
ReplyDeleteSome of the survivors I spoke to say the flag issue is just a smoke-screen for a more sinister reason. They say there’s good reason to believe that their own government set them up as a pretext for entering the war. They insist the unmarked planes prove that there was some form of collusion between Israel and the U.S. to make it look like the attack was from an enemy, such as Egypt or the Soviet Union.
But is it possible? Would President Lyndon Johnson be ruthless enough to sacrifice the lives of 294 American sailors for a chance to enter a conflict with perhaps a bigger picture in mind? Control of the Middle East oil fields, perhaps, and a chance to break the Soviets’ grip on its Arab allies?
Facts and theories
Over the years, countless theories have been spun about what may or may not have occurred that day. Books and Internet articles suggest clandestine operations and backroom deals. Truth, speculation and outright fiction combine in murky, confusing accounts.
But the Israelis’ story and official U.S. reports collide with a few facts that defy easy explanation. Among these are the communications showing that two rescue attempts to save the Liberty were called back by the White House. The accounts were corroborated by J.Q. “Tony” Hart, who at the time was a chief petty officer in Morocco assigned to handle communications between Washington and the Sixth Fleet.
In the first conversation, Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara was informed by the commander of the Sixth Fleet, Rear Adm. Lawrence Geis, that four F4 Phantom jets had been dispatched from the USS Saratoga in response to a distress call from the USS Liberty, then “under attack by unknown forces.”
McNamara told Geis in no uncertain terms, “I want those Phantoms returned immediately!”
Ninety minutes later another attempt was made. Adm. Geis sent jets from the Saratoga and another carrier in the region, the USS American. He received another call from McNamara with the same instructions. This time an irate Geis told McNamara he will not return the jets until he hears from the commander-in-chief himself.
McNamara put Johnson on the phone. “Mr. President,” Geis explained, “they’re killing Americans.” Johnson’s response was, “I don’t care how many Americans are being killed. I will not embarrass one of our allies.”
Read more: http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/opinion/x776199718/Julian-Forty-six-years-of-silence#ixzz2Vc6K7TeX
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President Johnson went on national television the next day and delivered the news to the American people. Solemn and contrite, he said that 10 sailors were lost in a six-minute accidental attack - when in reality it was 34 sailors lost in a 40-minute attack.
ReplyDeleteThe following day, June 10, a Navy Court of Inquiry was hastily assembled to conduct an investigation into the disaster. The investigation was directed by Adm. John McCain, who at the time was commander-in- chief of naval forces in Europe. Adm. McCain (father of Sen. John McCain), with Adm. Kidd presiding and Capt. Ward Boston, a senior chief counsel to the Navy, were instructed to conclude their findings in one week, an unusually brief timeframe.
It wasn’t long before Capt. Boston found out why. In an affidavit written decades after the attack, Boston wrote that Adm. Kidd had been summoned to the White House and ordered by Johnson to “put a lid on it.” Boston said Kidd also told him that both the president and McNamara ordered him to conclude that the attack was a case of “mistaken identity.”
Boston kept his silence for 36 years, but came forward in 2003, releasing his sworn affidavit at a Capital Hill news conference. When pressed by reporters on why he stayed silent for so long, he simply replied, “I’m a military man, and when orders come, I follow them.”
Capt. Boston passed away a few years later, but many tough questions still remain. Why did Johnson refuse to send air cover for the Liberty? This was the first time in U.S. history that a military commander refused aid to an American ship under siege, which could be considered an act of treason and an impeachable offense. It’s hard to imagine that our president would allow an American warship to be deliberately attacked and American lives to be lost.
Another lingering question: How did the White House know it was their own “ally” attacking the ship? There was only one distress signal that came from the Liberty (before its antennas were destroyed) to the Sixth Fleet. The call gave absolutely no indication of who was attacking, only that it was from “an unknown force.”
In 2004, a more thorough inquiry on the Liberty was conducted by Adm. Thomas Moorer, the navy’s highest ranking officer and a former chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff. Moorer cleared Johnson of any “premeditation,” but concluded through his own eight-month independent investigation that Johnson and his administration were guilty of one of the worst cover-ups in American history. The Israeli attack was deliberate, he said, perhaps intended to draw the U.S. into the Six Day War.
DeleteA 40 minute attack in a 6 day war.
Why was an American ship in a war zone that America was not a participant in?
What did the Captain of the ship put the Liberty in that spot, so close they could hear the bombs explode?
If you wander out onto a highway, even if you are in the right and dont watch out for traffic you may get hit.
n 2004, a more thorough inquiry on the Liberty was conducted by Adm. Thomas Moorer, the navy’s highest ranking officer and a former chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff. Moorer cleared Johnson of any “premeditation,” but concluded through his own eight-month independent investigation that Johnson and his administration were guilty of one of the worst cover-ups in American history. The Israeli attack was deliberate, he said, perhaps intended to draw the U.S. into the Six Day War.
ReplyDeleteDo not be surprised to see Israel try and pull something similar today and try and drag the US into a war with Syria or Iran.
The only man standing between Israel, and that objective, is Barack H. Obama. They will pull out all stops in an attempt to discredit the U.S. President, and his policies.
DeleteFast Forward to Present. Middleeastern Oil Production is plunging.
DeleteIn Jan. of 2012 the Middleeast produced 24,319,494 bbl/day.
In Feb (the last month for which we have numbers) the Middleeast produced 23,358,634 bbl/day.
A difference of 960,860 bbl/day
EIA World Production
Most of that loss of production was Saudi Arabia (approx. 700,000 bbl/day.)
DeleteWe can fight like hell to control the very last drop, or we can move on, and wean ourselves off of that crap (Now, instead of "a little bit later.")
The Israeli attack was deliberate, he said, perhaps intended to draw the U.S. into the Six Day War.
DeletePerhaps if the Johnson had lived up to it's treaty obligations with Israel and kept the straits of Tiran open to international passage the entire war would have been avoided.
Why not discuss the issue in context and not 40 minute snipets?
Yes they will.
ReplyDeleteThey say "Science moves on, One Funeral at a Time."
DeleteThinking of the Bushes, and the McCains, I'm beginning to think that Politics does the same.
Adm. Thomas Moorer was the uncle of one of my dad's law partners. I asked him once, 'what's he like?' -
ReplyDelete"He's crazy as hell" was the reply.
An honest 'all in the family' appraisal.
Couldn't resist sticking my nose in for that. I quoted the same last time this broken record was being played too.
Out
bob
Sorry to bore you.
ReplyDeleteYeah, let's fight like hell, and waste $Trillions and $Trillions making Mideastern oil safe for the Chinese. Or,
ReplyDeleteWe could spend $2.69/gal for American E85. (which McCain hates)
$2.69/gal
SOP when the evidence is so overwhelmingly against you is to attack the victims and witnesses of the crime.
ReplyDeleteWhatever the reason for the divergence between Mr. Painter’s present claims and his testimony, Captain McGonagle also never mentioned any attack on life boats during his testimony. On the contrary, he testified that after the torpedo attack some crewmen mistakenly put life boats in the water, and that he ordered them to stop because the ship was in no danger of sinking:
DeleteNo bodies were noted in the vicinity of the ship following the explosion. Several life rafts, however, were released and placed into the water by various crew members whom I was unable to communicate with prior to their placing the boats in the water. They exercised their initiative on the scene, and no fault can be found with their estimate, not having the information that I had. When the messenger was sent to tell them to leave the lifeboats alone, that the ship was in no danger of sinking at that time, but that the lifeboats might be needed at a later time, no additional lifeboats were placed in the water. (Testimony of Cdr. McGonagle)
Does it seem reasonable that Cdr. McGonagle, having mentioned in his testimony the placing of the life boats in the water, would somehow forget to tell the Court of Inquiry that these life boats were then attacked?
Most historians would agree that it is highly improper to allow someone who has testified under oath, like Mr. Painter, to later contradict that testimony in an article or documentary without informing readers or viewers of the contradiction, and without vigorously confronting the person to explain the contradiction. Unfortunately few writers on the Liberty incident have done so.
One of the key charges leveled by conspiracy theorists, and some of the crew members, is that the Israeli jets and torpedo boats could not have missed the Liberty’s US flag, and therefore must have attacked knowing the ship was American. James Ennes, Jr., a Lieutenant on the Liberty, and one of the leading conspiracy proponents, makes this point repeatedly in his book Assault on the Liberty.
It is therefore quite ironic that Mr. Ennes also argues in his book it would have been impossible for Cdr. McGonagle to recognize the flags and markings on the Israeli boats:
McGonagle must have been mistaken about sighting the Israeli flag at this point in the attack. For one thing, it would have been practically impossible to identify a tiny and wildly fluttering Star of David a mile away, particularly since any flags displayed by the torpedo boats would have streamed back, away from McGonagle and out of his line of sight. (Assault on the Liberty, p 149 )
The USS Liberty, a US intelligence gathering ship, was steaming more than 10 miles off the coast of El Arish on June 8, 1967, the fourth day of the Six Day War, when at around 2 P.M. Israeli jets, responding to reports of shelling from the sea, attacked with cannon and napalm. Soon afterwards Israeli torpedo boats arrived at the scene and also attacked after first being fired upon by the Liberty. The Israeli seamen later explained they mistook the Liberty for an Egyptian ship, the El Quesir, but when they realized their target was a US ship, they ceased firing and offered assistance. Tragically, thirty-four US personnel were killed in the attack, and another 171 were wounded. Adding to the tragedy is that the Liberty should not have been there at all – with war already underway, it had been ordered by US commanders to stay 100 miles away from the coast. But a series of mistakes by communications personnel delayed the message from reaching the ship until after the attack.
DeleteThe Israelis have always maintained that the attack on the Liberty was a tragic mistake, caused by the fog of war. They immediately apologized for the attack and later paid compensation to the families. But certain crewmen of the Liberty have charged that Israel deliberately and knowingly attacked the US ship, and have advanced increasingly complicated and even bizarre theories to explain Israel’s alleged motivation for such an act. In addition, author James Bamford has cited similarly baseless and contradictory theories in his two books on the National Security Agency (the actual intelligence gathering by the Liberty was the responsibility of NSA personnel).
Some Liberty crewmen and likeminded conspiracists have also charged that the US government, including the Congress, has failed to investigate the attack on the Liberty. In fact, contrary to these claims, there have been at least six government investigations which reached relevant conclusions as to the facts of the attack. Those investigations, and their results, are as follows:
Report Date issued Conclusion
C.I.A. report June 13, 1967 No malice; attack a mistake
U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry June 18, 1967 Mistaken identity
Report by Clark Clifford July 18, 1967 No evidence ship was known to be American
Senate Select Committee on Intelligence 1979/1981 No merit to claims attack was intentional
National Security Agency 1981 Mistaken identity
House Armed Services Committee 1991/1992 No support for claims attack was intentional
The last investigation was spurred by White House Chief of Staff John Sununu, who, after meeting with Liberty veterans, referred them to Representative Nick Mavroules, chairman of the Subcommittee on Investigations of the House Armed Services Committee. After a one year investigation the matter was closed, the investigators evidently finding nothing to support conspiracy claims or any Israeli intentions to attack a US ship. (The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Attack on the U.S. Navy Spy Ship , by Judge A. Jay Cristol, Potomac)
Delete• The Israeli jets that attacked the Liberty were diverted from other targets, and consequently were armed with napalm rather than iron bombs. In a premeditated and deliberate attack meant to sink a ship, no aviator in the world would choose napalm over iron bombs. In the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor, for example, iron bombs sank US battleships in minutes, and the Liberty, a converted freighter, was no battleship.
Deletethis is interesting...
Friendly fire – mistaken attacks against allies or one’s own forces – are an unfortunate reality of war. For example, of the 24 British soldiers killed in the Gulf War, nine were as the result of a mistaken US attack. (AP, August 28, 1992)
DeleteThat US air attack, on British armored personnel carriers in broad daylight, bore eerie similarities to the Liberty incident. According to a report in the Washington Post:
... they had been killed on a clear day well behind the allied front line while awaiting instructions and relaxing inside their vehicles.
British officials contend that the two American pilots whose air-launched Maverick missiles turned the pair of vehicles into human incinerators either ignored radio instructions or misread map coordinates. The pilots of the A-10 “tankbuster” warplanes contend they never received the coordinates and relied instead on information passed on by a fellow American F-16 jet fighter pilot as he left the area for refueling.
The conflict between the two accounts has left the parents puzzled and angry, their outrage compounded by the refusal of the U.S. government to provide direct testimony from the pilots to a coroner’s inquest taking place here – and by Britain’s refusal to press the case. (Washington Post, May 18, 1992)
One week earlier the New York Times had reported:
The American pilots say they mistook the two British armored vehicles for Iraqi tanks because they were not displaying colored panels or other markings identifying them as allied vehicles. The British Defense Ministry, as well as witnesses at the hearings, insisted all of the vehicles, 30-ton armored personnel carriers called Warriors, were clearly showing friendly markings...
... When the first missile hit, Lance Cpl. Peter Fyfe said at the inquest on Friday, the men had just returned to the vehicle after stretching their legs.
Suddenly there was a tremendous explosion, “My mates were screaming and my hair was on fire and pieces of shrapnel were in my thigh,” said Corporal Fyfe, who was badly wounded. Three or four minutes later, a second missile slammed into another of the vehicles. (New York Times, May 11, 1992)
How could the US pilots misidentify and attack British armored vehicles in broad daylight in the desert? Is it possible they couldn’t tell the difference between the APC’s of our British NATO allies and the Soviet-supplied ones used by Iraq? How could they have missed the special markers that identified the vehicles as British?
The answer, of course, is that in the fog of war the US pilots missed the markers by mistake and misidentified the British armored vehicles, just like the Israelis who missed the flag (which was hanging down in still air) of the USS Liberty and misidentified her as an Egyptian ship.
now this is interesting..
DeleteAnother instructive example of mistaken attack occurred on June 2, 1967, just a few days before the Liberty incident, but this involved a US attack against the Russian freighter Turkestan in the North Vietnamese harbor of Cam Pha. According to the Soviet Captain of the vessel (as quoted in Cristol):
We were bearing all the markings of the Soviet government, a Soviet flag was flying from the stern mast. The stack was painted with a red stripe and a hammer and sickle... The visibility was excellent. There is no possibility of talking about an accidental attack ...( Cristol, p 4-5)
Secretary of Defense McNamara mentioned this incident in testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1967:
Secretary McNamara: ...In the case of the attack on the Liberty, it was the conclusion of the investigatory body headed by an Admiral of the Navy in whom we have great confidence that the attack was not intentional. I read the record of the investigation, and support that conclusion, ....
It was not a conscious decision on the part of either the Government of Israel--
Senator Hickenlooper: Perhaps not.
Secretary McNamara: (Continuing) To attack a U.S. Vessel.
Secretary McNamara: No. There is no evidence that the individuals attacking the Liberty knew they were attacking a U.S. ship, and there is some evidence, circumstantial, that they did not know it.
Secretary McNamara: Senator Hickenlooper, I don't want to carry the torch for the Israeli. It was an inexcusable error in judgment.
....
Secretary McNamara: And an inexcusable error of professional tactics. I would simply point out to you that, at the same time, I was denying that we had struck a Russian ship in Haiphong Harbor [sic] and I proved to be in error. These errors do occur. We had no more intention of attacking a Russian ship than Israel apparently did of attacking an American ship. (Cristol, p 156)
So the USA attacked a Russian ship by mistake that very same month...
Oh no dorothy.. mistakes are never made...
Now this is very interesting,..
DeleteJames Ennes, perhaps the leading conspiracy proponent among the former Liberty crewmen, has made extreme anti-Jewish and anti-Israel statements in e-mail discussions on the Prodigy internet service. For example, in a message dated June 8, 1992 referring to Jews, Mr. Ennes stated:
... Consider their dilemma: For generations they wanted their own country as a haven from racists. Finally they got it. Gradually they learned that their “leaders” obtained the new country by murdering and frightening away the original owners. Gradually they learned that the new leaders were actually the worst kind of self-centered, amoralistic murderers - worse than the people they sought to flee from.
This was too much of a moral dilemma for many of them. Some drew silent. Others turned against the people who betrayed them and now led their new country. Others pretended that all was well and that the new country was surrounded by extremists and that this condition justified every kind of brutal excess.[sic] And over the years they have instilled this narrow view in their children who now accept it as religious dogma. It is a very sad situation indeed.
Of course, the people that Jews fled from were first and foremost the Nazis, so Mr. Ennes is saying that Israel’s leaders are “amoralistic murderers” who are “worse” than the Nazis.
In another message dated July 22, 1992, Mr. Ennes stated:
... the fact is Israel would have no enemies if they did not constantly raid their neighbors, steal their land, take their water and kill their children.
Mr. Ennes’s statements are nonsense copied directly from his apparent good friends in the pro-Arab propaganda industry. Clearly, if before the attack on the Liberty Mr. Ennes was not an extreme anti-Israel partisan, he has become one since. His allegations concerning the Liberty must be viewed in that unpleasant context.
Motive? Bias? looking for the there there even if the there isn't there?
so 6 American investigations
DeleteReport Date issued Conclusion
C.I.A. report June 13, 1967 no malice; attack a mistake
U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry June 18, 1967 Mistaken identity
Report by Clark Clifford July 18, 1967 No evidence ship was known to be American
Senate Select Committee on Intelligence 1979/1981 No merit to claims attack was intentional
National Security Agency 1981 Mistaken identity
House Armed Services Committee 1991/1992 No support for claims attack was intentional
I think this statement says it all...
DeleteTragically, thirty-four US personnel were killed in the attack, and another 171 were wounded. Adding to the tragedy is that the Liberty should not have been there at all – with war already underway, it had been ordered by US commanders to stay 100 miles away from the coast.
Israel intentionally attacked a hostile ship in a war zone. Only after it attacked did it find out it was American.
If you were fighting the Nazis in north africa and were told that there were no allied forces within 100 miles and found a ship in the middle of the war zone that was military? You would sink it.
"support the terrorist regime who attacked the Liberty"
ReplyDeleteThat says it all.
To be fair, no that's not possible. How about one standard for all.
By your standard. israel attacked an American ship innocently sailing in international waters with sun bathing US servicemen. You say this is terrorism.
FINE.
By your standards America is a terrorist nation because of:
Lincoln and the Civil War.
Drone strikes.
Atomic Bombs.
Indian Wars.
Iraq War.
So what's your point?
You have now proved that Israel and America are both "terrorist"nations what is your solution?
The destruction of Israel?
The destruction of America?
Please name one nation that lives up to your perfect ideal.
Germany? Russia? China? England? France? Arabia?
But according to you and your standards, Israel is a terrorist regime because during a war a ship got attacked.
No reason will suffice. No excuse. No reparations, no apology.
Just drag out the issue when possible because israel is horrible.
The Liberty issue still brings up the issue.
ReplyDeleteWhy was the USS Liberty off the coast in Gaza? The nearest American ships 400 miles away.
Why was the Liberty in an active war zone when all other American ships were ordered of the area.
International waters or not, why during a war would America put an unarmed spy ship in the middle of the thick?
We know from more recent history that the concept “international waters” are not all that important to the IDF.
DeleteNor America, or China, or Russia, or England, or France or any Arab government.
DeleteWhat is your point?
One standard for Israel and no standards for anyone else?
You speak like Israel and its situation is in a perfect vacuum.
DeleteWell the world aint like that.
Did Russia respect the Georgians international borders?
China with Tibet?
Turkey with it's occupation of Cyprus?
America with it's drone strikes across the globe in nations we are not even at war with?
The Liberty situation was 12 miles off the coast of gaza/israel in a major war, on the 4th day.
My god man, pull your head out.
It's like arguing about friendly fire, shit happens.
In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3,323,500 (US$21.9 million in 2013) as full payment to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3,566,457 in compensation to the men who had been wounded. On 18 December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million as settlement for the final U.S. bill of $17,132,709 for material damage to the Liberty itself plus 13 years' interest.[7]
ReplyDeleteIsrael apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship. Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity,[2] though others, including survivors of the attack, have rejected these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.[6]
DeleteBut Israeli apologies are not accepted?
DeleteI am pleased that you brought that excuse up. This is the most cynical and biggest lie of all: The Israelis claimed that they thought they were attacking the Egyptian ship El Quseir . I am adding to the post above the profile of the two ships.
DeleteYou might also ask, "why would you remove the markings from your plane to attack the ship of a country (Egypt) with which you are at war?"
Delete• For example, crewmember Lloyd Painter claimed in a History Channel documentary that he saw “unmarked jets, no markings whatsoever” pass over the ship, thus clearly implying that the attack was intentional and premeditated. Painter’s claim contradicts his sworn testimony before the U.S. Navy’s Court of Inquiry, in which he makes no such assertion. Lt. Painter testified, under oath, that as the jets first strafed the ship (which would be before they passed over the ship) he was:
Delete... looking through the porthole at the gun mounts. I was looking through the porthole when I was trying to contact these two kids, and I saw them both; well, I didn't exactly see them as such. They were blown apart, but I saw the whole area go up in smoke and shattered metal. And, at about the same time the aircraft strafed the bridge area itself. The quartermaster, quartermaster third class Pollard was standing right next to me, and he was hit, evidently with flying glass from the porthole... we both hit the deck, as well as Mr. O'Malley, who was my JOOD at the time. As soon as the first strafing raid had been made, we sounded general quarters alarm. The captain was on the bridge. He was in the pilot house at this time. I don't know whether he was hit then or not, I can't remember. It was so smokey. I took off for my general quarters station, which as I said before, was repair three on the mess decks. On the way down I was running as fast as I could. (Testimony of LTJG Lloyd C. Painter, June 14, 1967)
Thus, according to Lt. Painter’s sworn testimony he was looking at the Liberty’s gun mounts as the jets attacked, at which point he quite understandably “hit the deck.” When the first strafing run was over, Lt. Painter ran as fast as he could to his station below decks; he was therefore in no position to determine whether the attacking jets were marked or unmarked. At no point in his testimony did he claim that the jets were unmarked or even that he was in a position to tell.
Contrary to Lt. Painter’s claim that the attacking jets were “unmarked,” Signalman Russell David testified that he saw Israeli insignia on the attacking jets and reported this to the Captain. Most conspiracy theorists have ignored David’s testimony.
• Conspiracy theorists have also ignored Captain McGonagle's sworn testimony that the attacking torpedo boats were flying Israeli flags:
When the boats reached an approximate range of 2,000 yards, the center boat of the formation was signaling to us. Also, at this range, it appeared that they were flying an Israeli flag. This was later verified. It was not possible to read the signals from the center torpedo boat because of the intermittent blocking of view by smoke and flames. At this time I yelled to machine gun 51 to tell him to hold fire. I realized that there was a possibility of the aircraft having been Israeli and the attack had been conducted in error. (Sworn testimony of Cdr. William L. McGonagle, June 14, 1967; emphasis added)
dont let the sworn testimony get in the way of your fiction rufus
DeleteWhat I believe is not historic proven fact.
DeleteI believe Israel attacked a hostile ship in it's war zone.
Was it an American ship YEP. under normal orders? I doubt it.
It was a spy ship, spying in a war zone.
Just saying.
http://www.sixdaywar.org/uss-liberty.asp
DeleteThis site rebuts the points being slung...
What is "Occupation"Sat Jun 08, 10:15:00 AM EDT
Deletehttp://www.sixdaywar.org/uss-liberty.asp
This site rebuts the points being slung…
----------------------------
Here is your cited source, that refutes the lying eys of US servicemen. Who you going to believe?:
The Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA) is a powerful Boston-based lobby group that tries to curb criticism of Israel in U.S. media.
Founded by Charles Jacobs in the wake of Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon, CAMERA claims to be "a media-monitoring, research and membership organization devoted to promoting accurate and balanced coverage of Israel and the Middle East". According to its website, it "systematically monitors, documents, reviews and archives Middle East coverage" and its staffers "directly contact reporters, editors, producers and publishers concerning distorted or inaccurate coverage, offering factual information to refute errors."
CAMERA is widely regarded as a pro-Israeli lobby group that as put by Journalist and author Robert I. Friedman - "CAMERA, the A.D.L., AIPAC and the rest of the lobby don't want fairness, but bias in their favor. And they are prepared to use McCarthyite tactics, as well as the power and money of pro-Israel PACs, to get whatever Israel wants.”
In 2002, Jacobs founded The David Project Center for Jewish Leadership in 2002. The organization’s stated aim is "to positively shape campus opinion on Israel by educating, training, and empowering student leaders to be thoughtful, strategic and persuasive advocates."
While heading The David Project, in early 2005 Jacobs asked at a local community gathering that the Newton, Massachusetts Public-access television station stop broadcasting the program Mosaic: World News from the Middle East, accusing the program of having anti-Semitic and anti-American content. Noting that Newton has a sizable Jewish population, Jacobs stated that showing Mosaic was "like bringing the KKK into" the city." In particular, Jacobs protested how the show presented news programs from Arab television station. He said those stations, "in their un-whitewashed form, teach the Arab world that the Jews are killers. To pretend that these stations are like an Arab version of CNN is a lie, it’s a deception."
In 2007, Leonard Fein, founder of the National Jewish Coalition for Literacy and Moment Magazine, stated regarding Jacobs, "The David Project, his principal vehicle, is an ongoing disservice to the Jewish community. Where bridges might be built, it prefers confrontation; where sober analysis is called for, it opts for polemic; worst of all, wherever there is reason for hope, it insists on fear.”
In July 2008, Jacobs resigned as President of the David Project "in order to focus on a new initiative in support of the Jewish community."
That settles it then.
Delete… Journalist and author Robert I. Friedman - "CAMERA, the A.D.L., AIPAC and the rest of the lobby don't want fairness, but bias in their favor. And they are prepared to use McCarthyite tactics, as well as the power and money of pro-Israel PACs, to get whatever Israel wants.”
DeleteDont listen to the sworn testimony just call them JEWS and of course they MUST lie?
DeleteMy my deuce.
I thought you just hated Israel. From this last post you seem to be saying if they are Jews they cannot tell the truth?
SOP when the evidence is so overwhelmingly against you is to attack the victims and witnesses of the crime.
DeleteSo if you disagree with the Jew? Destroy him for being a Jew?
SOP?
Events leading to the attack[edit]
ReplyDeleteDuring the Six-Day War between Israel and several Arab nations, the United States of America maintained a neutral country status.[8] Several days before the war began, the USS Liberty was ordered to proceed to the eastern Mediterranean area to perform a signal intelligence collection mission in international waters near the north coast of Sinai, Egypt.[9] After the war erupted, due to concerns about her safety as she approached her patrol area, several messages were sent to Liberty to increase her allowable closest point of approach (CPA) to Egypt's and Israel's coasts from 12.5 nmi (14.4 mi; 23.2 km) and 6.5 nmi (7.5 mi; 12.0 km), respectively, to 20 nmi (23 mi; 37 km) and 15 nmi (17 mi; 28 km), and then later to 100 nmi (120 mi; 190 km) for both countries.[10] Unfortunately, due to ineffective message handling and routing, the CPA change messages were not received until after the attack.[10]
So do I understand this correctly... The Liberty was 12 miles from the coast? Twelve whole miles???
According to Israeli sources, at the start of the war on 5 June, General Yitzhak Rabin (then IDF Chief of Staff) informed Commander Ernest Carl Castle, the American Naval Attaché in Tel Aviv, that Israel would defend its coast with every means at its disposal, including sinking unidentified ships. Also, he asked the U.S. to keep its ships away from Israel's shore or at least inform Israel of their exact position.[11][12] The United States did not provide Israel any information about Liberty's mission or location.
ReplyDeleteSo Israel told the USA to keep it's ships away from the area as it was going to be a war zone.
America has never shot down or sunk a ship in a war zone that didnt belong there have they?
The issue I am not clear on is not IF israel attacked the Liberty, but WHY WAS THE LIBERTY WERE IT WAS.
ReplyDelete12 miles of the coast of gaza? During a war with several arab states?
How foolish was the Captain of the Liberty to put his crew and ship in a war zone while ignoring orders to get out of the area.
That is IF he was in charge of his ship.
That is IF he ever got those orders.
WHO was really in charge of the spy ship?
Why was the ship in the war zone?
Now we all know America is not a terrorist nation, however could someone in the NSA be corrupt?
Is it possible and plausible that the crew and the captain were "not in the loop" and were victims of an ILLEGAL NSA spy operation?
The American captain was foolish to not expect scurrilous duplicity and treachery from our greatest ally ever and US Naval Command.
DeleteThe ship was in the middle of a war zone, the 4th day of an active battle area.
Delete12 miles off the coast of Gaza.
Thousands of miles from it's dock.
If we are stupid enough to sail a ship INTO a war zone shit happens, regardless if maps mark it "international waters" or not.
12 miles.
Did America not do the SAME thing to the Chinese Embassy?
ReplyDeleteOn May 7, 1999, during the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia (Operation Allied Force), five US JDAM guided bombs hit the People's Republic of China embassy in the Belgrade district of New Belgrade, killing three Chinese reporters and outraging the Chinese public. According to the USA, the intention had been to bomb the nearby Yugoslav Federal Directorate for Supply and Procurement. President Bill Clinton later apologized for the bombing, stating it was accidental.[1] Central Intelligence Agency director George Tenet testified before a congressional committee that the bombing was the only one in the campaign organized and directed by his agency,[2] and that the CIA had identified the wrong coordinates for a Yugoslav military target on the same street.[3] The Chinese government issued a statement on the day of the bombing that it was a "barbarian act".[4]
And to be honest?
DeleteIt was the right target.
We had no business attacking Yugoslavia in the first place.
DeleteDid we have any business being 12 miles off the coast of gaza/israel in the middle of the 6 day war spying?
DeleteA friend of mine (Army Ranger) had to walk out of the Sinai when he woke up one morning behind Egyptian lines.
ReplyDeleteHe was doing the same thing the Liberty was doing - supplying Israel with signals intelligence.
Johnson was involved in cooking up the Liberty attack. He was afraid Israel was going to lose, and wanted mightily to drag us off into the mess (there was, also, that little matter of the Suez Canal.)
Santa Monica gunman kills four, injures at least five others in rampage that spilled onto college campus
ReplyDeleteSanta Monica College was placed on lockdown after a crazed man, who was also killed Friday, shot his father and brother to death in their home then stormed the campus library in a bulletproof vest.
NOT in most of the mainstream news headlines:
Neighbors said a family of Lebanese descent lived at the address and had recently gone through a bitter divorce. Since then, they said, the mother had moved out and assumed custody of at least one of her two sons.
California Solar blew through the 2,000 Megawatt level, yesterday - producing 2,074 Megawatts at peak.
ReplyDelete2,074
Too damned early, and a slow news day, to boot.
ReplyDeletelater.
DAMASCUS: Forces loyal to President Bashar al-Assad have now seized all of the Qusayr area in central Syria, state television reported on Saturday, as the United Nations launched a record aid appeal for refugees.
ReplyDeleteSaturday's seizure of Eastern Bweida village, the last rebel bastion in the area, brought the entire Qusayr region near the border with Lebanon back under regime control.
It came four days after Qusayr, a strategically key town for both the regime and the rebels which had been in insurgent hands for a year, fell to the army and forces from Lebanon's Shiite Hezbollah movement.
“Our heroic troops have restored safety and security in Eastern Bweida” in the central Syrian province of Homs, the state broadcaster said.
Hundreds of people who fled Qusayr as it fell on Wednesday had taken refuge there.
The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said it was concerned about the fate of hundreds of fighters and civilians, many of them wounded.
“Where are the hundreds of civilians and wounded people who fled Qusayr and took refuge in Eastern Bweida? We have no news,” Observatory director Rami Abdel Rahman told AFP.
He said it was currently impossible to reach Observatory contacts in the area.
Syrian state television broadcast footage of a barren village devoid of signs of life. Its correspondent warned of the presence of explosive devices in the area.
Hezbollah also announced the news of Eastern Bweida's fall on its own television channel, Al-Manar.
Its correspondent said: “Qusayr's countryside is finished... The army has taken back the whole Qusayr region.
“The regime staged a war of nerves by bombarding (Eastern Bweida) all night long,” the reporter added.
“We have entered a new phase” in the conflict, he added.
The usual suspects will do anything to stop the Syrian government from retaking Aleppo.
ReplyDeleteIran, Hezbollah and Russia will do anything, including murdering 94,000 civilians, to keep a dictator in power.
DeleteBut if you are implying Israel will do anything? Israel COULD simply just take out Assad.
DeleteThey have had that ability for some time.
I like your wording... "will do anything to stop the Syrian government"
Does this include an atomic bomb? Cluster bombing the syrian troops? Destroying the Syrian power grid? Airport? Fuel infrastructure?
"Iran, Hezbollah and Russia will do anything, including murdering 94,000 civilians, to keep a dictator in power"
Delete---
Aren't these our natural allies, really?
Ruf says it's a slow news day, so let's take the time to check out "root causes,"
OK?
I may have overstated it.
ReplyDeleteThat's the understatement of the month.
Deletebob
After living in Shanghai for 50 years a Chinese man decides to move to Australia.
ReplyDeleteHe buys a small piece of land near Mt Isa.
A few days after moving in, the friendly Aussie neighbour decides to go across and welcome the new guy to the region.
He goes next door but on his way up the drive-way he sees the Chinese man running around his front yard chasing about 10 hens.
Not wanting to interrupt any Chinese custom, he decides to put the welcome on hold for the day.
The next day, he decides to try again, but just as he is about to knock on the front door, he looks through the window and sees the Chinese man urinate into a glass and then drink it.
Not wanting to interrupt another Chinese custom, he decides to put the welcome on hold for yet another day.
A day later he decides to give it one last go, but on his way next door, he sees the Chinese man leading a bull down the drive-way, pause, and then put an ear next to the bull's bum.
The Aussie bloke can't handle this, so he goes up to the Chinese man and says, 'Jeez Mate, what the hell is it with your Chinese customs ? I come over to welcome you to the neighbourhood, and see you running around the yard after hens.The next day you are pissing in a glass and drinking it, and then today you have your head so close to that bull's arse, it could just about shit on you.'
The Chinese man is very taken back and says, 'Sorry sir, you no understand.. These no Chinese customs I doing, these Australian Customs.''
What do you mean mate' says the Aussie, 'Those aren't Australian customs................
'Yes they are', replied the Chinese man, 'travel agent man say to become true blue Australian, I must learn chase chicks, drink piss, and listen to bull shit.'
Just in case you missed it a day or two ago, Sam:
DeleteWhat did the girl sitting on Pinochio's Face say?
"Lie to me"
:)
DeleteNice one, I did miss it. Thanks, Doug!
Man/Woman Conversation
ReplyDeleteWoman:
Do you drink beer?
Man: Yes
Woman: How many beers a day?
Man:
Usually about 3
Woman: How much do you pay per beer?
Man: About $5.00
(This is where it gets scary !)
Woman: And how long have you been drinking?
Man: About 20 years, I suppose
Woman: So a beer costs $5 and you have 3 beers a day which puts your spending each month at $450. In one year, it would be approximately $5400 ...correct?
Man: Correct
Woman: If in 1 year you spend $5400, not accounting for inflation, the past 20 years puts your spending at $108,000, correct?
Man: Correct
Woman: Do you know that if you didn't drink so much beer, that money could have been put in a step-up interest savings account and after accounting for compound interest for the past 20 years, you could have now bought a Ferrari?
Man: Do you drink beer?
Woman: No
Man: Where's your Ferrari?
I do find it interesting that Deuce will highlight the 46th anniversary of the liberty but ignored D-Day.
ReplyDeleteInteresting priorities.