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Sunday, December 11, 2011

Salami says, the Captured US Drone is No Baloney.

Iran refuses to hand back US drone

Iran's Revolutionary Guard has said it will not return a US surveillance drone captured by its armed forces. TELEGRAPH



Gen. Hossein Salami, deputy head of the Guard, said in remarks broadcast on state television that the violation of Iran's airspace by the US drone was a "hostile act" and warned of a "bigger" response. He did not elaborate on what Tehran might do.
"No one returns the symbol of aggression to the party that sought secret and vital intelligence related to the national security of a country," Salami said.
Iranian television broadcast video Thursday of Iranian military officials inspecting what it identified as the RQ-170 Sentinel drone.
Iranian state media have said the unmanned spy aircraft was detected over the eastern town of Kashmar, some 140 miles from the border with Afghanistan. US officials have acknowledged losing the drone.
Salami called its capture a victory for Iran and a defeat for the US in a complicated intelligence and technological battle.
"Iran is among the few countries that possesses the most modern technology in the field of pilotless drones. The technology gap between Iran and the US is not much," he said.
Officers in the Guard, Iran's most powerful military force, had previously claimed that the country's armed forces brought down the surveillance aircraft with an electronic ambush, causing minimum damage to the drone.
American officials have said that U.S. intelligence assessments indicate that Iran neither shot the drone down, nor used electronic or cybertechnology to force it from the sky. They contend the drone malfunctioned. The officials had spoken anonymously in order to discuss the classified program.
But Salami refused to provide more details of Iran's claim to have captured the CIA-operated aircraft.
"A party that wins in an intelligence battle doesn't reveal its methods. We can't elaborate on the methods we employed to intercept, control, discover and bring down the pilotless plane," he said.

87 comments:

  1. Thought for the day:

    "If the Swiss can thrive without joining the EU so can the UK."

    ReplyDelete
  2. Former Navy Cryptologic Technicians (Technical) say if the CIA didn't remember to munge the telemetry they deserve to lose their expensive toy.

    But I think Iran whipped up a fake with some plywood, sheet steel, and green paint. If I was working at Boeing and I left some panel rivets hanging in the wind like those, I'd get fired.

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  3. Why would the US play into that? They have admitted the loss of the drone.

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  4. Deuce said... Why would the US play into that? They have admitted the loss of the drone.

    Master Sun Tzu said all warfare is deception. Iran thinks they are scoring prestige points by suborning a drone and YouTubing it. Good for them. Remember when Israel and the US took out the nuclear reactor in Syria? There was not a word of confirmation from either side.

    Frankly, I wouldn't want to have someone on my side who's very country is called "Iran".

    ReplyDelete



  5. According to new NBC News-Marist polls, the former House speaker has now opened up commanding leads in South Carolina and Florida -- two states that historically have played important roles in deciding the eventual Republican nominee.

    Fueled by the support from conservatives and the Tea Party, Gingrich is ahead of former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney by nearly 20 points in South Carolina. The winner of that state's primary has gone on to capture each GOP nomination since 1980.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Quirk said...
    .SO why try to engage them?
    Indeed. If that's the way you feel why do you stick around and bother?


    ------To point out to anyone that stumbles here that there are those that are painfully anti-semitic.


    Quirk refuses to actually listen to any rational discussion about the Liberty, instead trashes the author, John Loftus...Most people on the blog have their own idea about what happened with the Liberty. I have mine. You have yours. Allen has his.
    You and I are in more agreement about what happened than you and Allen, yet I don't see you arguing with him. I feel Allen is being credulous when accepting the official version of events. For that he calls me called anti-Semitic.


    ---- your argument is with Allen, not I. He calls them as HE sees them. Allen and I never have had any discussion about the Liberty.


    quirk: You and I differ not so much on what happened as on what the reasons were.

    You say that I am not open to rational discussion because I don't buy John Loftus' explanation. You come to that conclusion based on one book (at least that is all you've cited). If you've followed this conversation over the past year, you've seen that I have quoted numerous books, columns, testimony, and opinions that differ from that of Mr. Loftus, yet instead of offering further argument you say I am being unreasonable for not accepting your view.
    No I'd have to say it is you that is unreasonable. Your thought processes are skewed by your Israel-first mindset. Not only do you think unreasonably, you think illogically.
    The latest example came within this last week when you accused LBJ of being responsible for the 1967 Arab-Israeli War.
    You state,
    LBJ had no problem in shafting Israel in the 1967 war by NOT LIVING up to the USA's treaty obligations.
    If AMerica had kept it's treaty with Israel in 1967? There would have been no six day war.
    All because LBJ could not stand up to Nasser by sailing a SHIP up the Strait of Titran...
    This tells me you're batshit crazy.
    First, what treaty are we talking about? Well, according to you it's the Convention on the Territorial Sea and Contiguous Zone, which was adopted by the UN Conference on the Law of the Sea on April 27, 1958. In addition, you said that the U.S. recognized Israel's right of free passage in the Straight of Titran.
    OK, but what are the treaties about? They are basically trade agreements outlining national rights and bounderies under international law. They also outline the principle of free passage.
    What are they not? They are not defensive pacts. They are not the NATO Charter. The fact that the US recognized Israel's right to free passage in no way obligated it to help Israel defend it's rights. The US did not default on its treaty obligations. The treaty obligations you talk about did not exist.
    I've oulined all the issues facing the US in 1967 and won't list them again. If you don't recall, just look up 1967 in Wiki. What I didn't mention was that Tibet was invaded by the Chicoms that year and that tensions over Czeckoslavakia were mounting with the Soviets actually invading in 1968. It was the height of the Cold War; yet, you whine because the US didn't risk nuclear war by running a blockade.
    You talked about the many signatories of the treaties, but it is only the US you blame for not coming to Israel's aid. What about the other countries?
    I'm sure it makes sense to you. It's always Israel first. The ramifications for the US? Always secondary in your thoughts.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Actually this is where you live in some alternative world.

    To discount the USA as ONE of the 2 superpowers of the day, to not read history of the UN and HOW the USA was dominate in the world at the time and not to understand the AMerica 1st attitude that I actually have is what is batshitcrazy.

    The USA allowed the 1967 war.

    The USA was spying on Israel and feeding the electronic war map to Israel's enemies.

    The USA was behind the forcing of Israel in 1956 to GIVE up the entire SInai back to the Egyptians who in fact started the 1956 war by USING gaza as a base of terror operations.

    The USA was involved in a dual with the soviets.

    to deny the agreement with the UN and the treaties therein about freedom of navigation disses who and what AMerica WAS in the world in 1955-1975

    America was the leader of the free world. Was is the important word

    LBJ had his reasons for NOT living up to assurances he gave to Israel when AMERICA forced Israel to withdraw from the SInai after the 56 war and you can call it that there were no "mutual defense" deals. But if you actually took the time to learn actual history you might learn about the UN, the USA Egypt, Nasser, U Thant and how the UN & America SCREWED Israel....

    Yeah baby, AMerica 1st, not Israel 1st. But America sometimes fucks it's so called friends.

    and in 1967 it didnt even give Israel some lube on it's ass before fucking it....

    So here we are now...

    America just fucked israel again...

    Forcing Israel in a bullshit land for nothing (peace) process with savages Israel has given up the sinai 2 times, gaza, southern lebanon and most of the west bank...

    For what?

    SO that the savages that brought us the 911 attacks can now bombard Israel on a daily basis from multiple fronts....

    Thanks America.. Home of the free and brave...

    How our ancestors are spinning it their graves....

    Freedom for Jihadists... Freedom for Islamists..

    This is America 2011.

    One nation under radical socialists and islamists.

    But let's not mince worlds.

    America ONCE was (and might be again) a leader for actual freedom and justice in the world. But as long as it supports and funds savages it will not be.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Just have to wait and see if Gary Johnson runs as a Librarian,

    Can't vote Obama, can't vote for Newt. To do either would violate cardinal conservative, republican principles.

    Can't vote for anyone that supported Medicare Part D and the expansion of Federal authority and liability to the citizens of the US that it represents.

    Far worse than ObamaCare, as it is the ideological precursor to it.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Which is why the US should abandon the Middle East, focusing instead upon the Americas, rather than trying to choose winners and losers from amongst the savages that now inhabit what was Ottoman Arabia.

    ReplyDelete
  10. From the BBC, regarding another area of the whirled the US should abandon to its own devices.

    Rather than attempt any further "nation building".

    The blocking of Nato convoys into Afghanistan via Pakistan may continue for several weeks, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has told the BBC.

    Pakistan blocked the convoys in protest at US air strikes two weeks ago which killed 24 of its troops at two checkpoints on the Afghan border.

    Mr Gilani also refused to rule out closing Pakistan's airspace to the US.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Gary Johnston represents real change, which is why the GOP will not let him on a stage to debate with Mr Huntsman or Rick Santorum, other candidates that stand no chance of winning the White House, this cycle.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Not an honor killing, by Islamoids, but family violence, none the less.

    Three dead in Cambridge, Mass.

    Plus the shooter, who suicides.

    The bodies of Patrick Pizzuto, 63, his 62-year-old brother, Robert, and their 91-year-old mother, Mary, were found inside the Grove Street home, said Josephine Pizzuto, Patrick’s wife, in a phone interview yesterday.

    She declined to elaborate on the cause of the disagreement that authorities said led to the shootings.
    Related

    12/10: Three people fatally shot in Cambridge

    “This is another horrific example of domestic violence, a familial incident leading to three dead persons in that house,’’ Middlesex District Attorney Gerald T. Leone Jr. said at a press conference after the killings.


    A savage lived in Cambridge.

    ReplyDelete
  13. The past governor of Utah, welcomed with open arms, by the GOP establishment, but a twice elected governor of New Mexico, shunned.

    The governor from Utah, spot on the Federal Socialist talking points, the governor from New Mexico, not so much.

    ReplyDelete
  14. The family victims of the suicide murderer, said to be of Irish and Italian descent.

    More than likely, self-identifying as Christian.

    Though that is supposition, as the story does not delve into the religion of the savage suicide murderer.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Censorship by omission, what some here at the EB call for, on occasion.

    ReplyDelete
  16. From my old friends, at Forbes concerning the Euro crisis.

    The ECB agrees to lend very cheap money to any bank that asks for it. Sure, they’ve got to put up some collateral to get it but guess what the acceptable collateral is? You guessed it, sovereign bonds.

    So, banks buy Italian bonds on which they get 7% interest (ish, at present) present them to the ECB and get money at 1%. Recycle this process as many times as you like and the net effect is that the ECB is printing the money to purchase government bonds, using the banks as intermediaries.

    We’ve a nice side effect too. The eurozone banks all desperately need more capital. One very useful source of new capital is retained earnings. And if you can borrow at 1%, lend at 7%, that’s a good source of such retained earnings. Providing no one goes bust of course.

    I think I’m right in saying that under the current rules, banks can hold sovereign debt without having to allocate any capital to such holdings. While this will change in a few years under Basel III, for the present this means there’s no real limit on how much sovereign debt they can load up on to earn that 6%.

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  17. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  18. While this fellow echos mat's disdain for Anglo Axis foreign policies.

    The US “war on terror” and the NATO occupation of Afghanistan propelled the US drug offensive against Russia to an unprecedented level.Over just a few years, Afghanistan's drug output rose by almost a factor of 50 and reached the equivalent of 190-200 billion of heroine dozes annually, the number roughly 30 times greater than the global population. Drug laboratories occasionally superior in equipment to global pharmaceutical companies proliferated across Afghanistan under the protection of NATO and the US DEA. In the meantime, NATO, the Pentagon, and DEA mount staunch opposition to Russia's proposals for joint eradication campaigns.
    ...
    The Empire's strategy is to create the conditions under which a drug war in a “partner”-country erupts imminently and then to make the partners totally dependent on the US support in the conflict. Washington's supplies of firearms and grenade launchers to Mexico's rivaling drug cartels clearly reflect the strategy of managing the drug war in the country. Dozens of Mexican military and law-enforcement officers – along with US border guards, customs officers, and DEA operatives - die in the conflict.


    tiwy.com

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  19. .

    WiO, you say I live in some alternative world? Well it is true I don't live in some weird WiOland.

    The USA allowed the 1967 war? What did you want them to do, stop Israel from attacking her neighbors?

    The USA was feeding electronic war maps to Israel's enemies? Nonsense.

    The US shafted Israel in 1956? Please. Israel attacked Egypt against US opposition and after giving the US no prior notification. She had colluded with Britian and France who joined the attack the next day. You piss and moan about the US for not accepting an Israeli fait accompli, but you say nothing about the UK or France, your good buds. Why don't you bitch about them instead worrying about not being able to suck on the US tete?

    The US was involved in a dual with the Soviets, and Israel should be grateful the US had forces in the area opposite the Soviets otherwise your war might not have turned out so well.

    Your arguments about the treaties are childish and betray a skewed view of reality. The treaties were a product of the UN. No one would deny the US was the leader of the free world but the Soviets were the leaders of the
    Soviet Bloc. And, oh yeh, they had veto power at the UN.

    America sometimes fucks it's so-called friends? You mean like the Israelis did during the Suez Crisis or in the 1954 Lavon Affair, Operation Susannah? Friends? What friend plans to blow up American and British facilities in Egypt as part of a false flag operation?

    America first? Yea, as far as I'm concerned.

    America ONCE was (and might be again) a leader for actual freedom and justice in the world. But as long as it supports and funds savages it will not be.

    Based on the Lavon Affair, one has to ask who are the savages.

    Your Israeli-centric view of history blinds you to reality.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  20. Israel would be doing itself a big favor by cutting itself off all US aid and engage in an independent policy based on the political, economic and security realities of the area. Then there would be no guess work on what Washington would do and what Israel should do. Israel should accept that it has grown up and time to step out into the World on its own. The reality of the Israeli situation would dictate foreign policy and security issues. Israel security would improve as well as US security.



    I have read as much as I need to on the US Liberty affair. Israel killed US servicemen and the US servicemen who were there, Repeat, the US service men that were there and being attacked said the Israeli forces knew what they were doing and to whom they were doing it to. I choose to take the word of the servicemen over US politicians, Israeli politicians and apologists for anything and everything that Israel does. Having conflicted loyalties is a bitch.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Theodore Roosevelt said it well:


    Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States.

    We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance.

    But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Teddy continues:


    The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic.

    He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American.

    ReplyDelete
  23. I don't hold it against Israel for taking out the USS Liberty, they were acting in their own interests. All's fair in love and war. I hold it against LBJ for covering it up.

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  24. The drone: let them have it. We have others.

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  25. Admiral McCain, tambien, Ms T.

    I don't "hold" it against Israel, any more than I hold the Berlin disco bombings and downing that TWA plane over Lockerbie, Scotland against Libya or holding the taking of the USS Pueblo against North Korea.

    All modern equivalents.

    Holding the current generation of Israeli responsible for the attack upon the USS Liberty, is like feeling the Germans are still responsible for sinking the Lusitania.

    Ms Merkel not responsible for the attack on the Lusitania. No more than Bibi is responsible for the Israeli attack upon Liberty.

    But all the stories of attacks upon the US flag on the seas or in the air are emblematic of their respective national souls.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Quirk said...
    .
    The USA allowed the 1967 war? What did you want them to do, stop Israel from attacking her neighbors?


    No I wanted the USA to live up to it's promises.

    Israel didnt need to be "stopped"

    Egypt did..

    Try learning actual history.

    Egypt started the 1967 war.

    Not Israel.

    ALL the USA had to do, was to sail a ship up the Red Sea with an Israeli ship in tow.

    SImple really....

    ReplyDelete
  27. There is no doubt that the Israeli attacked the USS Liberty.

    No question as to whether or not the Israeli saw the US flag flying upon the ship and no question that when they did, they denied its' significance.

    There is question as to their motive.

    ReplyDelete
  28. quirk:
    The US shafted Israel in 1956? Please. Israel attacked Egypt against US opposition and after giving the US no prior notification.



    Israel is it's own nation toots...

    And Egypt was attacking Israel from the gaza strip.

    The USA forced Israel to RETURN the legally captured Sinai in EXCHANGE for USA assurances that the Red Sea would be open to israeli and that the Egyptians would not station troops there...

    It was EGYPT that violated those principals in 1967/

    Learn history champ.

    ReplyDelete
  29. 1967 recalled:


    ... the war began on June 5 with Israel launching surprise air strikes against Arab forces.

    Revisionist history not allowed.
    No history deniers allowed, tambien.

    ReplyDelete
  30. .

    I hold it against LBJ for covering it up.


    The least of my worries. I hold it against him for not sending in the jets when he knew the ship was under fire.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  31. quirk:The US was involved in a dual with the Soviets, and Israel should be grateful the US had forces in the area opposite the Soviets otherwise your war might not have turned out so well.



    It was the USA that stopped the Israelis from capturing Cairo.

    The Soviets threatened to get involved at the defeat of their clients.

    The USA limited Israeli victories during the 1967 war..

    WOuld the soviets have gotten involved?

    who knows that is speculation.

    ReplyDelete
  32. quirk: Your arguments about the treaties are childish and betray a skewed view of reality. The treaties were a product of the UN. No one would deny the US was the leader of the free world but the Soviets were the leaders of the
    Soviet Bloc. And, oh yeh, they had veto power at the UN.



    You know nothing of the arrangements AT the UN after 1956 and arrangements with the USA and Israel about the sinai.

    Not everything is always an "easy button" but you implication that America was nothing more than a "member" of the UN speaks volumes of your lack of insight of this matter.

    ReplyDelete
  33. .

    Israel is it's own nation toots...


    Yet you piss and moan and whine when the US doesn't do this and that and the other thing for Israel.

    Any malfeasance by Israel ignored or excused. Any act of ommission on the US part for obligations constructed by you out of thin air are condemned. The pattern is obvious.

    You seem to miss the irony.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  34. You mean like the Israelis did during the Suez Crisis or in the 1954 Lavon Affair, Operation Susannah? Friends? What friend plans to blow up American and British facilities in Egypt as part of a false flag operation?

    Nice twist on the fact pal...

    American and British OWNED facilities, not British and American RUN facilities..

    And NO ONE WAS INJURED....

    Egypt in 1954 was a similar place to what it is today...

    One crazy insane place.

    To equate a failed false flag operation that INJURED NO ONE except the Egyptian jews that tried to do as compared to America failing it's obligations that lead to the DEATH of thousands is quite amazing.

    America's actions concerning the Egyptians and the Sinai has cost Israelis many lives.

    SO go back on point...

    America ALLOWED the 1967 war to happen, it failed to live up to it's agreed responsibilities.

    ReplyDelete
  35. quirk: Based on the Lavon Affair, one has to ask who are the savages.


    One standard for Israel no standards for anyone else.

    Like AMerica has never done any operations in any other nations under cover?

    Oh yeah, when America does something people actually die....


    quirk: Your Israeli-centric view of history blinds you to reality.


    No you lack of actual understanding of American History in the 1960-180 and the middle east just makes you stupid...

    Dont know if you are anti-semitic, however i am convinced you really dont know shit about the middle east....

    ReplyDelete
  36. Deuce said...
    Israel would be doing itself a big favor by cutting itself off all US aid and engage in an independent policy based on the political, economic and security realities of the area. Then there would be no guess work on what Washington would do and what Israel should do. Israel should accept that it has grown up and time to step out into the World on its own. The reality of the Israeli situation would dictate foreign policy and security issues. Israel security would improve as well as US security.



    As long as America feeds a trillion dollars a year in cash, weapons and support to Israel's enemies israel will need assistance.

    However, under obama, Israel may have to make moves that will not sit well with the USA.

    If a war starts in the middle east and Israel has to attack Iran?

    Don't get all pissy about the price of oil.

    America has had 40 years to get ready for that war....

    Maybe if America would actually do something to get off of the savage's oil supply that would limit the damage to the USA when that major war finally comes.

    ReplyDelete
  37. .

    You know nothing of the arrangements AT the UN after 1956 and arrangements with the USA and Israel about the sinai.


    Arrangements?

    What arrangements? What is an arrangement. Where there treaties signed? Diplomatic papers exchanged? Secret concordats? You appear well versed in the subject. What did they say?

    Where are these documents?

    Are you sure they didn't come from some book you read quoting 'old spies' and anonymous sources?

    Admittedly, I am unaware of their content. Enlighten me.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  38. The Israeli were flying French aircraft, so Uncle Sam cannot be held responsible for the air attacks by the Israeli that started the war.

    Israel said it destroyed 416 Arab aircraft, while losing 26 of its own in the first two days of the war. Israeli aircraft shot down included six out of 72 of its Mirage IIICJ fighters, four out of its 24 Super Mystère fighters, eight out of 60 Mystère IVA ground attack aircraft, four out of 40 Ouragan ground attack aircraft, and five out of 25 of its Vautour II medium bombers.

    All French built aircraft.
    No US built planes amongst the bunch.

    ReplyDelete
  39. deuce:

    I have read as much as I need to on the US Liberty affair. Israel killed US servicemen and the US servicemen who were there, Repeat, the US service men that were there and being attacked said the Israeli forces knew what they were doing and to whom they were doing it to. I choose to take the word of the servicemen over US politicians, Israeli politicians and apologists for anything and everything that Israel does. Having conflicted loyalties is a bitch.



    The USS Liberty was an illegal action against an ally during their war.

    The ship was not supposed to be there.

    IF the ship was ordered there by the USA government?

    Then it was doing something nasty and treacherous to the nation of Israel

    I believe that the reason NO ASSISTANCE was forthcoming by the entire USA fleet?

    NO ONE thought it was an AMerican ship.

    Just because a ship sails a flag of the USA doesnt make it so.

    False flag operations baby...

    Just how does anyone KNOW that Israel KNEW they were Americans?

    Is it not possible that the ship was Egyptian or Russian????

    Maybe the simplest reason is clear...

    An American ship was taken over illegally by the NSA. (say it aint so!) and was spying on Israel without regular channels KNOWING.

    Israel DURING a HOT WAR, saw a ship and tried to disable it.... That ship was AT THE TIME, denied to be an AMerican ship by the AMericans.

    ReplyDelete
  40. desert rat said...
    There is no doubt that the Israeli attacked the USS Liberty.

    No question as to whether or not the Israeli saw the US flag flying upon the ship and no question that when they did, they denied its' significance.

    There is question as to their motive.


    No denying that many armies and navies have flown OTHER nations colors.

    The question of motive?

    Why was a USA ship in a declared war zone and declared empty of american ships zone?

    that is the question of motive...

    what the fuck was an American ship doing where it was NOT supposed to be...

    ReplyDelete
  41. It was the USA that stopped the Israelis from capturing Cairo.


    What in hell would you have done with Cairo if you'd have captured it except get shot at day after day and eventually leave?


    You want to try to occupy Cairo? Try Damascus first for a while, see if that works.




    b

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  42. It was a US flagged ship in international waters, but the Pirates of the Mediterranean did not care.

    They denied the significance of the flag. Of that there is no doubt, or they'd not have continued the attack, in multiple waves, by sea and air, if they had.

    They did break of the assault, when the F-4s were finally launched, in support of the USS Liberty.
    Leaving no doubt as to the reality of the Israeli data set, as to the national colors of the USS Liberty.

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  43. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  44. .



    NO ONE thought it was an AMerican ship...


    You are obtuse.


    False flag operations baby...


    Yes Israel would know all about that. Initially, they denied their part in the Levon Affair, then 51 years later they honored the surviving agents in the operation.

    In 1956, they ignored the US position on the Suez.

    Israel was no 'friend' to the US in the 50's.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  45. The Israeli cannot even handle Gaza, let alone Cairo.

    Beer muscles, perhaps?


    Dreams of grandeur, fer sur.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Didn't Michelle Bachmann shine last night!?

    Newt Romney

    That's pretty good, no?

    b

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  47. Lebanon proved a bridge to far, for the forces of Israeli occupation.

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  48. .

    Why was a USA ship in a declared war zone and declared empty of american ships zone?


    The US Liberty was in international waters flying an American flag.

    First you say Israel attacked the Liberty because it was passing along electronic war maps to Egypt.

    Then you say Israel attacked it because they weren't sure it was American.

    If you could keep your stories straight it might be easier to take you seriously.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  49. Christian Science Monitor:


    In the crucial Iowa debate, Newt Gingrich came across as steady and principled, flexible or unwavering as he saw the need. The one major gaffe was Mitt Romney's $10,000 challenge to Rick Perry.

    ReplyDelete



  50. "He entered the debate with momentum and did not lose any momentum," Iowa Republican strategist Richard Schwarm told the Des Moines Register. "Despite being the main target, he was not damaged."

    For every shot his rivals took, Gingrich seemed to have a ready and reasonable answer.

    ReplyDelete
  51. As I've said, the Federal policy, recently changed, towards slaughtering horses for consumption has been devastating to the humane treatment of the animals.

    Most of the meat, exported to France or Japan, historically.

    Now the LA Times tells the tale.

    Horses, once prized, are paying for the dire economy

    Many are sold for far less than they originally cost. Some are abandoned to fend for themselves.

    ReplyDelete




  52. Congress also imposed a de facto prohibition starting in 2007, when it stripped funds for federal inspections of the facilities that are required for slaughterhouses to operate.

    As a result, U.S. horse exports to slaughterhouses in Mexico increased by 600% and to those in Canada jumped 148%, according to a report by the Government Accountability Office. In 2010, nearly 138,000 U.S. horses were slaughtered in those countries, roughly the same number that were slaughtered in the U.S. before the bans.

    Closing domestic slaughterhouses also "negatively affected lower- to medium-priced horses by 8 to 21 percent," exceeding the 4% drop in horse prices caused by the economic downturn, the report found.

    Those unintended consequences are one reason Congress and the Obama administration quietly lifted the horse ban in November.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Newt Romney is, indeed, a very good line.

    In fact, it sounds so natural that it took me a minute to catch on.

    ReplyDelete

  54. Some are abandoned to fend for themselves.


    That's a problem all right. Horses have been on my mind a lot lately.

    We should treat them right, but what does that mean?

    In this economy it certainly can become a burden for some people owning a horse. What to do? Probably no buyers out there.

    I need to think the whole thing through again, I've no answers.

    Dumping them out west is not the answer.

    b

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  55. NO ONE thought it was an AMerican ship.

    Just because a ship sails a flag of the USA doesnt make it so.

    False flag operations baby...

    Just how does anyone KNOW that Israel KNEW they were Americans?

    Is it not possible that the ship was Egyptian or Russian????


    Every naval power and every air force in the world has pictures and profiles of every know ship in ebery navy. Israel absolutely had the same information.

    Also, the idea that Israel would have captured Cairo? What would they have done with it? It is a lovely day in Philadelphia, relax, take a walk.

    ReplyDelete
  56. And with feed prices rising, the cost of maintaining all those hobby horses is increasing.

    Historically horses in AZ have been fed alfalfa hay. In either it's natural form, or processed into pellets.

    The cost of that alfalfa skyrocketing. So, without the meat export market the price of horses would have continued to plummet.

    Now with the change in Federal policy, brought to the floor by Jack Kingston, R-GA., and Senator Herb Kohl, a Dem from WI., and the comparatively high prices for beef the price of horses will stabilize at the low end and then should return to their historic norms.

    Upwards to fifty cents a pound, live weight.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Gingrich set the correct tone. He won the debate. Only Ron Paul can save Romney.

    ReplyDelete
  58. We had an older couple staying at my wife's place back east. They had three or four horses. I don't know exactly what happened to Cody but he is buried there now.

    Was my wife pissed?

    That ain't the word for it.

    Cody got a Christian and USA burial though, cause there was a cross and American flag on his burial mound. Also some vases, with flowers, wilted by the time I checked it out.

    "Here lieth Cody
    Our favorite horse
    Gone to heaven afore us
    May he welcome us there"


    "Goddamn them, they buried a horse in my back yard?!!!

    b

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  59. One thing I've learned about horses is (I think) you can't feed them just straight alfalfa hay.

    Needs to be cut a little, with some grass or something.

    Least that's what they tell me here.

    b


    b

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  60. "Salami says, the Captured US Drone is No Baloney."

    Good one!

    ReplyDelete
  61. Done it both ways, with regards the alfalfa.

    Depends on how "hot" it is.
    Grass hay, like bermuda are fed for filler. There's little or no nutrient value to it, for the horse.

    Which is one reason the pellets are popular, here. It provides standardization of the feed to the consumer.

    There is little pasture, none natural, in metropolitan Phoenix that can sustain a horse.

    Trucking is an important cost point in the price of the feed, tambien.

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  62. Baloney. Frankly, Salami is lying.

    b

    ReplyDelete
  63. WiO wrote re. Quirk:

    "No you lack of actual understanding of American History in the 1960-180 and the middle east just makes you stupid..."


    ummm, dude, WiO, look in the mirror for it is you displaying the lack of understanding of history and the role treaties play. You really do sound like a propagandist for Israel and a poor one at that.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Anonobob: One thing I've learned about horses is (I think) you can't feed them just straight alfalfa hay.

    Otherwise it would be like eating candy all the time.

    ReplyDelete
  65. WiO: No question as to whether or not the Israeli saw the US flag flying upon the ship and no question that when they did, they denied its' significance

    Exactly. The Americans on the ship were considered expendable by the Israelis. I don't blame them. They spent six hours reconnoitering the ship, which flew a large US flag, and they sent aircraft to machine gun the lifeboats to make sure they finished the job.

    But the Americans were also considered expendable by LBJ, and I do blame him.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Teresita said...
    WiO: No question as to whether or not the Israeli saw the US flag flying upon the ship and no question that when they did, they denied its' significance


    I never said that.

    ReplyDelete
  67. A good lawyer

    One afternoon a lawyer was riding in his limousine when he saw two men along the road-side eating grass. Disturbed, he ordered his driver to stop and got out to investigate.He asked one man, "Why are you eating grass?

    "We don't have any money for food," the poor man replied. "We have to eat grass." "Well, then, you can come with me to my house and I'll feed you," the lawyer said.

    "But sir, I have a wife and two children with me. They are over there, under that tree." "Bring them along," the lawyer replied. Turning to the other poor man he stated, "You may come with us, also." The second man, in a pitiful voice, then said, "But sir, I also have a wife and SIX children with me!" "Bring them all as well," the lawyer answered.

    They all entered the car, which was no easy task, even for a car as large as the limousine was.

    Once under way, one of the poor fellows turned to the lawyer and said, "Sir, you are too kind. Thank you for taking all of us with you."

    The lawyer replied, "Glad to do it, You'll really love my place. The grass is almost a foot high."

    ReplyDelete
  68. Like most sane people, I don't like This Shit

    Granted, they can be useful but what a price.

    People in the comments section don't much like it either.

    About the only places you have an expectation of privacy are in your own living quarters, or maybe the public restroom.

    I don't like the idea of hidden cameras all over, either. And I got nothing to hide.

    It seems to me, to mandate that a sign be posted saying, you are being video taped makes some sense.


    b

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  69. The grass is almost a foot high, and has snakes in it too.

    b

    ReplyDelete
  70. Bologna Martini


    Baloney and olives, get it?

    hahahahhhar

    b

    ReplyDelete
  71. How Israel Handles Illegal Immigrants

    JERUSALEM — The Israeli government on Sunday announced plans to spend $160 million on efforts to stem the growing number of Africans who enter the country illegally seeking jobs and political asylum. The money will go toward work on an Egyptian border fence that is already under construction, an expansion of detention centers and increased policing of companies that hire undocumented workers.

    “If need be, we will close businesses so that the enterprise known as the State of Israel does not close,” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said after a cabinet meeting that focused on the issue.

    Over the past six years, about 50,000 Africans, mostly from Eritrea and Sudan, have trekked across the Sinai into Israel, some of them working in hotels and on construction sites, others living in rundown urban neighborhoods, unable to find work and relying on refugee agencies.

    All well-off countries face the challenge of how to handle poor foreign migrants and how much credence to give their accounts of political persecution. But the situation in Israel is complicated by Jewish history and has led to a national debate. On the one hand, this is a small country that wishes to maintain a strong Jewish majority. On the other, the Jews’ past of eviction and persecution makes some here argue that Israel should have special sensitivity for those fleeing prejudice and conflict.

    Mr. Netanyahu said that the overwhelming number of Africans who slip into Israel are not political refugees but are looking to improve their economic status. He said they pose difficulties for the people they settle among. Poorer Israelis, in particular, resent the Africans’ arrival and compete with them for jobs.

    “We hear the outcry coming from Israel’s cities,” he said. “We will continue to care for refugees, but they make up a minimal part of the human wave. Entire populations are starting to move, and if we don’t act to stop this we will be flooded.”

    Refugee advocacy groups in Israel contend that Mr. Netanyahu is wrong, that the majority of those who arrive here are fleeing civil wars or political persecution.

    Mr. Netanyahu plans to visit several African countries early next year and said he would raise the issue of repatriating the refugees.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Re: Deuce and "conflicted" loyalty

    Recently, you wrote several hit pieces attacking Lincoln, Grant, Sherman and their barbaric "War of Aggression" (not that I disagree, having been savaged often by some on this blog and at the BC for referring to the war of (1861-1865) as America's Second War of Independence).

    By every legal standard, Lee, Davis and company were, by definition, guilty of treason. The penalty for treason was death. By any reasonable standard, both treason and your defense of same indicates conflicted loyalty (again, no criticism is intended)

    You will take a shot at us with family connections to Israel as conflicted - fair enough, in the vacuum of space. But what do you call your own confessed desire to have seen the Union dissolved (again, you get no argument from me)? Whatever your nomenclature, I see your feelings as conflicted at the least.

    Re: Deuce's reading material on the Liberty event

    That is a list I would love to see. In all the years that hot-potato has been pitched around here, I do not recall anyone other than me giving quotes from the now gigantic government document release. In fact, this lack of rational response from the record is inexcusable since I have posted the record in its entirety at the EB twice. I certainly do remember one guy making comments about the study literally minutes after my last linkage to the NSA repository site. That was strange, indeed, given the thousands of pages of documents etc available within the NSA file. Some folks, admittedly, are special.

    Someday soon, we witnesses to that dreadful time of LBJ will be gone. With our passing will also pass the paranoia and hysteria about the Liberty.

    As to those who took the hit aboard the Liberty, I sympathize. But there was/is no way they could know/have known what was going on over on the Israeli side. What is known is that the Israelis had a "WTF" moment immediately upon learning that their target was an American ship of the line. And that is not a feeling; it is a provable fact coming from US interceptions of Israeli air traffic. And with reference to that Israeli air traffic, I would appreciate anyone here who could point me to incriminating from the NSA record.

    Unlike my brother, WiO, I have no evidentiary reason to think the Liberty was aiding the Egyptians. This is especially apparent when you recall that Sharon's forces double enveloped the 3rd Egyptian Army shortly thereafter. Oddly enough, the Egyptians have had nothing to say on the matter as I recall (I am willing to be proven wrong from the record; ramblings from someone's latest book - not so much).

    Take comfort in your beliefs regarding this tragedy. But history will record the event as just that, a tragedy among friends. The score of the outcome of the work of hundreds (if not thousands) of uniformed, active duty US service members is and will remain...

    Israel 13
    Others 0

    We may all be thankful that there was no "grassy knoll". Sadly, the well placed dead, who found the Israelis harmless of murder with malice aforethought, cannot defend themselves and Israel against calumny and the insanity of the times.

    ReplyDelete
  73. By every legal standard, Lee, Davis and company were, by definition, guilty of treason.

    O bullshit, Lee, Davis and company were found guilty of treason by an overwhelming force.

    They thought they could get an amicable divorce, but the barrel of some guns told them differently.

    Since the little smarmy slanderous shit is back, I'm going to go exercise at the Mall.


    b

    ReplyDelete
  74. Article III, Section 3

    Treason

    Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort...

    ReplyDelete
  75. bob,

    You need to work on that smarmy thing; you whose Daddy had a Jewish lawyer and who just rhapsodically loves, loves, loves Jews :-)

    But let's let that pass for the moment and address, instead, intellectual honesty. For instance, I have seen no answers to the patently clear queries I put before you. Why, even DR usually answers questions and he is, what, a "crapper". What, then, does that make you?

    Being a patient man, I'll try again. If you have any questions due to selective or traumatic amnesia, just ask for help.



    allen said...
    bob,

    Come: Let us reason together.


    Would you agree that from time to time your behavior here has been, what, “strange”?

    Would you agree that you have from time to time been fixated on certain persons or things?

    Would you agree that you have from time to time suffered the effects of sleep deprivation?

    Would you agree that once you delusively claimed your spouse to be dying of cancer (?).

    Would you agree that from time to time your behavior has caused pain to at least one member of this blog?

    Would you agree that I begged you to seek professional help based upon perceived suicidal ideation?

    Would you agree that you have on two occasions been blocked from posting at the Elephant Bar, based upon your worrisome behavior?

    Would you agree that your being allowed to return is conditional?

    Would you agree that you seek the approval of others as a consequence?

    Sat Dec 10, 10:03:00 PM EST

    ReplyDelete
  76. These very fine performances may have an interesting effect — of giving conservative Iowa caucus voters a reason not to cast their lot with Gingrich, but to stand with someone else who resonates more powerfully with them.

    Gingrich is now leading by 15 points in Iowa. He has very little in the way of organization in the state, and the caucuses (which take place on Jan. 3) have an unusual structure that depends on organization.

    If Romney holds his support at around 20 percent, and Gingrich doesn’t run away with it because the other 80 percent divides five ways, that will impede his momentum and help Romney. But only if Romney finds his footing again after last night’s calamity.

    ReplyDelete
  77. While on a road trip, an elderly couple stopped at a roadside restaurant for lunch. After finishing their meal, they left the restaurant, and resumed their trip.





    When leaving, the elderly woman unknowingly

    left her glasses on the table, and she didn't

    miss them until they had been driving for

    about forty minutes.


    By then, to add to the aggravation, they

    had to travel quite a distance before

    they could find a place to turn around,

    in order to return to the restaurant to

    retrieve her glasses.

    All the way back, the elderly husband

    became the classic grouchy old man.

    He fussed and complained, and scolded

    his wife relentlessly during the entire

    return drive. The more he chided her,

    the more agitated he became

    He just

    wouldn't let up for a single minute.


    To her relief, they finally arrived at the restaurant.

    As the woman got out of the

    car, and hurried inside to retrieve her

    glasses, the old geezer yelled to her,

    "While you're in there, you might as well

    get my hat and the credit card."

    ReplyDelete
  78. I wasn’t there on the Liberty.

    No, you do not know what I read or do not read.

    I choose to believe the US servicemen who were there. They have a credibility that is not enjoyed by politicians in Israel or the US Government. Why would I believe a government under LBJ that demonstrably lied on many things or believe in a foreign power, Israel ? Why would I believe in propagandists and polemics frorm either side when I can read and hear the testimony of those who were there?


    I also know that I was not at Gettysburg nor Fort Sumter. I know what I have read and been taught. I have come to certain conclusions about Lincoln that are incontrovertible. Lincoln had an obligation to preserve the Union and an obligation to preserve the peace. He could have prevented a war. He failed but like Stalin was successful in preserving a political union through repression. He is responsible, as our others, in getting 600,000 Americans killed on American soil. He eliminated the possibility of 6,000,000 descendent Americans being alive today. Lincoln conducted the largest mass hanging in US history. He wanted the hanging to be ten times greater.

    I don’t like seeing American servicemen getting killed by anyone, a domestic government or a foreign government.

    Every non-native American of European ancestry has family ties with every European country. Italian-Americans fought Italians in Italy. German-Americans fought Germans in Germany. There is nothing more sacred about your family ties than mine or anyone else's. My brethren are in this country.

    Your obsession with defending the Israeli killing of US servicemen is equal to my obsession in giving those same servicemen’s testimony greater weight than your foreign obligations to Israel.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Even though it probably wouldn't do much good it would make me feel good to see Palin endorse Bachmann.

    She won't but she should.


    b

    ReplyDelete
  80. Obama conceded that Americans have every right to be upset at the current state of the US economy.

    "We've gone through an incredibly difficult time in this country. And I would be surprised if the American people felt satisfied right now," the president said

    "They shouldn't feel satisfied. We've got a lot more work to do in order to get this country and the economy moving in a way that benefits everybody, as opposed to just a few."

    ReplyDelete
  81. The news last week was the poor showing of Vladimir Putin’s United Russia party in the elections to the Russian Parliament, the Duma. Despite widespread electoral irregularities, the governing party won less than half the vote. State television, notoriously the propaganda arm of United Russia, showed results in which the total percentage of votes cast exceeded 128 percent. Russians used to excel at math. No longer.

    The Western media excitedly covered protests in Moscow, where the vote rigging was especially egregious. The government crushed these demonstrations, deploying the Interior Ministry’s Dzerzhinsky Division. It’s amazing to me that such a thing even exists: Felix Dzerzhinsky was Lenin’s butcher during the Russian Civil War, the first director of the dreaded Bolshevik secret police, the Cheka.


    Nigeria With Snow

    b

    ReplyDelete
  82. Deuce...
    Your obsession with defending the Israeli killing of US servicemen is equal to my obsession in giving those same servicemen’s testimony greater weight than your foreign obligations to Israel.

    Sun Dec 11, 10:46:00 PM EST



    I have no such obsession. You want that, but it is not the case.

    What I have said and will continue to say is that Israel did not MURDER US servicemen with MALICE AFORETHOUGHT.

    Of course, Israel attacked the Liberty.

    I have spent many, many hours going over the government's investigation of the Liberty. In fact, on this very blog I have quoted those findings. You on the other hand simply tell us you read and believe. Wow! Well, then, I guess I must change my mind.

    As to which servicemen to believe, there is no doubt: all of them. Think about that. And also think about gun cameras being placed on WWII aircraft because enemy battle damage reports were so unreliable.
    In the fog of war, sometimes we see elephants.

    I note that you do not admit to being conflicted about the Civil War. It really is easy to say and write, especially when it's true. Men have always been conflicted. And only a fool would say, "My country, right or wrong" when slavery was still the order of the day and native Americans were being driven from their homes by government approved land speculators.

    ReplyDelete