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Saturday, December 03, 2011

Leon Panetta Warns Israel About Growing Isolation

Posted at 08:22 PM ET, 12/02/2011

Panetta: Israel should ‘just get to the damn table’ with Palestine


Obama administration officials often seem to be walking on eggshells when they talk about issues involving Israel. So it was interesting Friday night to hear Defense Secretary Leon Panetta forcefully caution a U.S.-Israeli audience about the dangers of bombing Iran and tell Israel to “just get to the damn table” in peace negotiations with the Palestinians.
Panetta was speaking to a gathering of the Saban Forum, an annual U.S.-Israeli dialogue about issues affecting the two countries. He made the comments in a unrehearsed question-and-answer session following what was a fairly cautious and predictable speech. He liked the “just get to the damn table” line so much that he repeated it, for good measure.
The most revealing answer came when Panetta was asked how long an Israel bombing attack on Iran would retard that country’s nuclear program. He argued that because targets are dispersed and hard to destroy, such an attack would likely delay Iran’s ability to make a nuclear weapon by only one to two years.
Against that meager potential gain, Panetta counterposed the danger of “unanticipated consequences,” including rallying support for a regime that is now isolated; the likelihood that the U.S. would be blamed and might be included in any retaliatory response; and the possibility of “escalation” that could broaden into a larger war in the region. For these reasons, he said, military action against Iran should be a “last resort.”
The audience included senior Israeli officials attending the forum. They gave Panetta a standing ovation at the end of his remarks, as they had at the beginning. He may also have earned an award for “chutzpah,” in voicing comments that are widely shared by U.S. officials but rarely expressed so bluntly in public.

135 comments:

  1. the opening line to this story is telling: "Obama administration officials often seem to be walking on eggshells when they talk about issues involving Israel."

    Why? It is easy to see why. The very mention of anything that veers from the party line on Israel and the hysteria, recriminations and insults begin.

    It is truly an amazing story about the ability of Israeli Inc., to make the US political establishment cower and curl like a terrified and scolded child for thinking or mentioning the obvious.

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  2. All the push-polling in the world will not be able to hide the obvious forever.

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  3. Washington Compost. Talking points from the Washington Compost.


    Let's see. Doesn't Hamas want to push Israel into the sea? You go negotiate with them.

    We haven't tried to stop Iran's weapons program, we haven't done a thing really, and won't long as Obama is around. Maybe too late now anyway.

    Panetta is just another political hack. Worked for Clinton.

    The obvious that the push/polling can't hide is that most Americans support Israel, though surely they diverge on what ought to be done.

    b

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  4. The Israeli attempted to push the people of Gaza into the sea, failed at it.

    Did manage to kill a bunch of women and children, though.

    ReplyDelete



  5. Real Clear Politics has reported that Mitt Romney has declined to debate Newt Gingrich later this month.


    Mitt's toast.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Mitt has declined to go on right wing talk radio 95% of the time.
    Hewitt the only exception I'm aware of.
    Fox News too heavy for Mitt to endure.
    Good that his place down San Diego way is getting a multi-million dollar upgrade.

    The weather there vs DC will console Willard.

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  7. Anon said...

    "Let's see. Doesn't Hamas want to push Israel into the sea? You go negotiate with them."


    Panetta said...

    " He liked the “just get to the damn table” line so much that he repeated it, for good measure.

    The most revealing answer came when Panetta was asked how long an Israel bombing attack on Iran would retard that country’s nuclear program. He argued that because targets are dispersed and hard to destroy, such an attack would likely delay Iran’s ability to make a nuclear weapon by only one to two years.
    "


    Israel's ability to fuse Tehran into solid silicon could delay their Ululation choruses wrt:

    "Death to Israel"
    and
    "Death to America"

    ReplyDelete
  8. ...by considerably more than one or two years.

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  9. If Israel and the US try to eliminate the Iranian nuclear program, Iran will get all the nuclear weaponry they want from Pakistan. The Pakistanis will become their default weapon source.

    Russia is on the verge of restoring the certifiable Putin to power. Putin has made it clear, he is restoring the glory of an authoritarian and imperial Russia. The Russians have reportedly sent cruise missiles into Syria. Iran is on the border of Russia. The US is locked into Afghanistan minus the Paki supply lines. The alternate lines go through Russian controlled areas.

    Israel is with in a hair of losing Turkey, Egypt and Jordan as security partners in the area. Islamic militancy has worsened everywhere in the region. Iraq has all the potential of engaging with Iran in closer ties. China has strengthened economic ties in every place that we have weakened and spoiled our military. With air power and troops on the ground, two trillion and ten years on, we have not measurably increased our security.

    I think good old Netanyahoo will have to console himself with the 250 nuclear weapons and missile defense system that he has. That is his defensive and offensive capability. Yet with all that, there is a vociferous minority within the US, an exaggerated minority that believe our interests are a stupid, blind unquestioned support for Israeli militarism, a type of militarism rejected by the intelligent, sensible and secular majority of Israelis.

    We left Viet Nam, fleeing the mobs, from the roof of our under siege embassy. We are landlocked in Afghanistan where half of our injured and dead troops were victims of IEDs. We are fleeing Iraq, along with all the Iraqi Christians, having defeated a secular nation leaving a country more tied to Iran than ever in history.

    Yea, let’s go get those Iranian facilities and save the mullahs and make them stronger. How do you say “Hoorah" in Neoconese?

    ReplyDelete
  10. Here is what is coming to an Islamic country near you

    A report in Saudi Arabia has warned that if Saudi women were given the right to drive, it would spell the end of virginity in the country.

    The report was prepared for Saudi Arabia's legislative assembly, the Shura Council, by a well-known conservative academic.

    Though there is no formal ban on women driving in Saudi Arabia, if they get behind the wheel, they can be arrested.

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  11. Leave the religious fanatics to all bomb each other into heaven. Keep us out of it. Our system is fragile enough to be threatened by the mention of the word “Christmas” yet we need to engage in Middle Eastern tribal wars that are steeped in bizarre religious cults all for the greater glory of he who should not be mentioned?

    The next time that we are attacked, smash the living “Jesus” out of the bastards that did it and don’t bake them cookies. Other than that leave them alone. It is not our problem.

    If we need a mission to right ancient territorial clams, let’s entertain ourselves with a focus on the Sioux, Lakotas, Dakotas and the Lenni- Lenape. There should be more than enough contradictions, conflicts and hypocrisy to go around. A little something for everyone.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Brief History of the Lenape

    For over 10,000 years, the first peoples of the Northeastern Woodland tribes lived in agricultural and hunting societies. Men, Women, and Children’s roles were well defined. Preparation was the key to survival.

    With the arrival of early explorers, survival took on a different meaning .

    The Forced March: Initially the Lenni Lenape of Pennsylvania had equitable dealings with William Penn. After Penn’s death, his sons concocted a plan to swindle the Lenape out of land which is now known as the infamous Walking Purchase. Times only got progressively worse for the Lenape. In the 1730s an English bounty of 30—50 British lbs. was offered for any Lenape, dead or alive.
    The final blow came during a Conference in 1758 in Easton, Pennsylvania when the Lenape (Delaware) were forced from their Pennsylvania and New Jersey ancestral homelands.

    Eventually the Lenape were forced to settle in Oklahoma and Canada.

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  13. And, Don' forget the Cherokee :)

    ReplyDelete
  14. And from our greatest president ever:

    "Largest mass hanging in United States history, 38 Santee "Sioux" Indian men
    Mankato, Minnesota, Dec. 16, 1862”



    303 Indian males were set to be hanged

    What brought about the hanging of 38 Sioux Indians in Minnesota December 26, 1862 was the failure "again" of the U.S. Government to honor it's treaties with Indian Nations. Indians were not given the money or food set forth to them for signing a treaty to turn over more than a million acres of their land and be forced to live on a reservation.

    Indian agents keep the treaty money and food that was to go to the Indians, the food was sold to White settlers, food that was given to the Indians was spoiled and not fit for a dog to eat. Indian hunting parties went off the reservation land looking for food to feed their families, one hunting group took eggs from a White settlers land and the rest is history.

    Information below tells how President Lincoln and Minnesota Governor Alexander Ramsey set out to exterminate Indians from their home land.

    Authorities in Minnesota asked President Lincoln to order the immediate execution of all 303 Indian males found guilty. Lincoln was concerned with how this would play with the Europeans, whom he was afraid were about to enter the war on the side of the South. He offered the following compromise to the politicians of Minnesota: They would pare the list of those to be hung down to 39. In return, Lincoln promised to kill or remove every Indian from the state and provide Minnesota with 2 million dollars in federal funds. Remember, he only owed the Sioux 1.4 million for the land.

    So, on December 26, 1862, the Great Emancipator ordered the largest mass execution in American History, where the guilt of those to be executed was entirely in doubt. Regardless of how Lincoln defenders seek to play this, it was nothing more than murder to obtain the land of the Santee Sioux and to appease his political cronies in Minnesota.

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  15. See a contradiction yet? Do we really want to continue down that road? If you need a cause for an abused ancient minority, let’s begin the conversation.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Sorry ruf, the Cherokee only go back to 8000BC. Their existential problem has been resolved.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I'm still here, Bubba.

    Probably eating some of the same dust my ancestors did 10,000 years ago.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Their are probably more than a few European-American Christian Churches and schools parked on ground once owned by the Cherokee, with little children being taught about the ancient tribes of Israel by people stone-cold ignorant of the culture, tribes and history of First American people who lived on the very same land 10,000 years ago.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Fuck the Cherokee.
    Bunch of Redneck Southerners.

    Free Hookahs for the Chumash are inalienable rights.

    Peace Out.

    ReplyDelete
  20. There's a small (by anything but Ms standards) mountain about 30 miles from here. My daughter found it during a particularly rough period in her life. Said she "felt at peace," there.

    I went with her one day, and I felt the same. It is a natural "look-out" with a view over many tens of miles. I could just imagine a long-ago ancestor standing in the same place. Keeping look-out. Or, just enjoying the view.

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  21. Please, no looking behind the curtain. You will frighten the children.

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  22. Get off your redneck ass and do a post on it. It sounds interesting. Doug has started his on the Chumash.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Worship the Humuhumunukunukuapua, and find eternal salvation.

    ReplyDelete
  24. The Chumash are just a step on the path to the sacred Humuhumunukunukuapua.

    In Paradise,
    where else?

    ReplyDelete
  25. Can’t we all just get along? OMG, my knees are beginning to wrinkle!

    ReplyDelete
  26. I’ll do a post:

    The Jew and the Sioux, What are you gonna do?

    ReplyDelete
  27. I wouldn't know where to start.

    They were just people that lived here a long time ago. They had a functioning society, with laws they considered "just," and reasonable.

    They were patient, and efficient hunters, and fishermen that raised a little corn, and seemed to get along fairly well with the land they inhabited.

    Then they got overrun.

    But, in some of us, the tribal memories, remain.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Maybe we should worship knees.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Rufus and Doug have had some closeup views and expertise.

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  30. ;-) LMAO < coffee snot !!

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  31. Somehow my mind has started to wander. There was this girl in the 7th grade. Sat behind me, and to the right. Ahh, them knees.

    Becky

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  32. I remember a bright, moonlit, bitterly cold night when I was, probably, going on five. A flock of geese landed on a frozen field about a half mile from our house.

    My dad spent three hours crawling up close enough to take four of them with a single shot 16 gauge. We ate one, and he sold the rest.

    Seems like we always had rabbit, or quail, or duck, or somesuch for breakfast.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Pakistan is far more important to US interests than Israel. Sectors of the Pakistanit government, the army and intelligence, use too much of the country's resources fighting in the border areas with Aghanistan areas. A few people at the top siphon off American aid for themselves and look the other way as ordinary citizens follow their example and rip people off wherever they can on the lucrative road trip from Karachi to Kabul via Peshawar. Afghanistan is likely to implode sooner rather than later, re-creating the base conditions that enabled al-Qaeda to grow before 2001, even if an independent operator like bin Laden no longer exists. The first step is a regional conference to lance the boils like Kashmir and Afghanistan that nurture militant groups, to restore some sanity to Pakistan's own agenda, because the country has been badly managed since the death of Zulfiqar Bhutto, if not before. Any act by the Pakistan Janus that provokes NATO or US to face the reality that they are dealing with an enemy is needed. Pakistan is clearly a failed islamic state that needs to address its ethos and direction. India the secular inclusive country has made enormous steps forward while the Sharia Law bound Pakistan staggers from one outrage to another. But it it still not a completely lost cause.

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  34. My father's partner was a Jew, and his wife was a Sioux, so we of course, behind their backs, called them THE JEW AND THE SIOUX.

    b

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  35. The Sioux were a forest people of the lower Mississippi, got pushed north, then got pushed onto the plains, got the horse and started pushing other groups around in their turn.

    The Nez Perce were nice and peaceful, fisherfolk for the most part, till they got the horse, then they started fighting the Blackfeet in Montana over buffalo rights, and the Shoshone every year, like a ritual. Also traded with them, every year.


    When Lewis and Clark came back from the Pacific, they saw this sight at Asotin --humpswhateverhisnamewaswhichwasaboutaslongasthis, with a necklace of human scalps about his neck, just back from the Shoshone to the south.


    Give me a break about the peaceful Indians.

    b


    (the aryans were peaceful folk too, till they mastered the horse, then all hell broke out, finally one Zoroaster made a religion out of his disgust at all the violence)

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  36. Rufus II said...

    There's a small (by anything but Ms standards) mountain about 30 miles from here. My daughter found it during a particularly rough period in her life. Said she "felt at peace," there.

    I went with her one day, and I felt the same. It is a natural "look-out" with a view over many tens of miles. I could just imagine a long-ago ancestor standing in the same place. Keeping look-out. Or, just enjoying the view.

    Sat Dec 03, 07:04:00 AM EST


    It's your Harney Peak, South Dakota, Rufus, which was the center of the world for Black Elk.

    The world navel, like Jerusalem.

    b

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  37. You'll just have to vote for Obama, deuce, if not write in Ron Paul. One of the two.

    b

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  38. One thing about the hunter/gatherers/fishfolk - they didn't go in for human sacrifice.

    It was the planting folk did that.

    b

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  39. Pakistan is unlikely to give Iran nuclear weapons as Pakistan is mostly Sunni, while Iran is Shia.

    b

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  40. Maybe they'd sell some weapons to Saudi Arabia though, their Sunni cousins.

    b

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  41. Deuce: If we need a mission to right ancient territorial clams, let’s entertain ourselves with a focus on the Sioux, Lakotas, Dakotas and the Lenni- Lenape.

    Not to mention the indigenous tribes of Mexico, when Davis, Lee, Jackson and Longstreet tore off a piece of their territory (Utah, Arizona, California, etc) so the peculiar institution of slavery could roll unvexed to the Pacific.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Give me a break about the peaceful Indians.

    Never mentioned one word about them being peaceful. You don’t need a break. Since you express concern about violence and wish to keep it smple focus on the crucifiction, but if you want to get into the real good stuff, mass slaughter of children for instance, mass suicide or a father prepared to slaughter his own son for "he who should not be mentioned", you know where to go.

    ReplyDelete
  43. The Cherokee used to practice human sacrifice. Then the Christians came along and told them that was wrong. The Christians had gotten this idea from the Jews. The Cherokee had slaves too, occasionally. Some Christians thought this was wrong, but not all. Nowadays many Cherokee long for the old days which never existed over a Budweiser and dream dreams about the center of the world.

    b

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  44. I've never read anything about the Cherokees doing "human sacrifice."

    They did have a system of laws that definitely included the death penalty.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Anonymous said...

    One thing about the hunter/gatherers/fishfolk - they didn't go in for human sacrifice.

    It was the planting folk did that.


    The planting folk, like the children of Israel.


    There was a famine that ran for three straight years. King David made his inquiries, and the LORD answered, *"It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites."*

    The Gibeonites were all that remained of the Amorites. And Saul was only doing what the LORD told the Israelites to do in Deuteronomy 20:

    "But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee"

    Nevertheless King David called the Gibeonites in and asked them what he could do to make them whole again.

    They didn't want any gold or silver from Saul's estate. Instead they said, "The man that consumed us, and that devised against us that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the coasts of Israel, let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the LORD in Gibeah of Saul."

    Nowadays Christians rely on the merits of Christ being hanged up unto the Lord once and for all to allay God's wrath. But back in David's time, the sons of the previous king were hanged up unto the Lord to allay his wrath.

    This had an additional benefit in that David didn't have to worry about these sons of Saul intriguing for his throne as sons of deposed kings are wont to do. And this whole thing about God sending a famine until they were killed was a very convenient excuse.

    "So the king took the two sons of Rizpah and the five sons of Michal, which they bore unto Saul, and delivered them to the Gibeonites. They hanged them on the hill before the LORD and were put to death in the beginning of the barley harvest.

    And after David took the bones of the hanged men and buried them with the bones of Saul and Jonathan, God was "intreated for the land".

    In other words, God accepted seven human sacrifices as atonement for Saul carrying out his own commandment to bring total genocide to the Amorites.

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  46. a father prepared to slaughter his own son for "he who should not be mentioned"

    It's a story about the ending of human sacrifice.

    By the way, he who shouldn't be mentioned can't be mentioned, being beyond language.

    but if you want to get into the real good stuff, mass slaughter of children for instance, mass suicide

    These references don't make any sense to me, I don't know what you are referring to.


    I'm going back to bed for a while, dream about the center of the world.

    Ron Paul or Obama, what a hell of a choice.

    b

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  47. One thing about the hunter/gatherers/fishfolk - they didn't go in for human sacrifice.

    It was the planting folk did that.

    b


    No, that was Abraham until God told him it was only a dry run, just a test of love sort of thing. A real mafia move to see if he was a "friend of ours.”

    That little move reappears when God loved his only son so much he had him beaten, humiliated, crushed, stabbed and suffocated on a cross that he had been nailed to. Feel the love?

    Those red savages indeed.

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  48. In other words, God accepted seven human sacrifices as atonement for Saul carrying out his own commandment to bring total genocide to the Amorites.


    :00)))

    Fair is fair, Miss T, you gotta admit.

    b

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  49. King Herod the great had a thing for slaughtering young children. Who knows what he did to them in his bed.

    At Masada, we had a mass suicide as did the Japanes at Okonowa.

    …of course nothing like the red savages.

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  50. boobie, your ignorance is palatable.

    The weapons in Pakistan, ARE Saudi.

    Who do you think paid for them?
    Those same Saudis own their fair share of them.

    Your good friend allen has told us that there is no real difference 'tween Shia and Sunni. He might know.

    Regardless, if Iran wants a nuclear weapon, it CAN buy one. The ISI has that market open, always.

    The NorK were buyers.
    Guess they could be sellers, now.

    If the IAEA report is accurate, then all the Iranians need to build a nuclear explosive device is the fissionable material. They have the plans and have computer tested the detonator.

    We're talking 1940's technology.
    Keeping Iran from that, like putting toothpaste back in the tube.

    ReplyDelete
  51. When have I ever said I was an orthodox anything?

    What I've said is Christianity makes a lot of sense read gnostically.

    I'm going back to bed.

    And you have no idea who is telling the truth in the Herman Cain dustup, and neither do I. At this point it's mutual accusations, is all it is. Maybe he is lying, but then maybe not. It's odd though, stuff from 15 years ago. At least with Clinton we had a stained dress.

    b

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  52. The Cherokee would capture men (and women) from other tribes, and sell them as slaves to others. I don't think they much bothered with slaves, themselves.

    Until, that is, they became "Culturally Adapted" to the White Man's world. Then, some of the more prosperous Cherokee owned Plantations, and Negro Slaves.

    Some were accompanied on "The Trail of Tears" by their slaves.

    The Cherokee were actually prospering in Georgia under the White Man's rule until some asshole found Gold in 1825, I think it was. Within 5 years they were walking their sorry asses to Oklahoma.

    The Cherokee were kind of the Aboriginal Jews. Once they discovered Lawyers they were a rather litigious bunch. They even took the whole relocation thing to the Supreme Court, and won.

    Andrew Jackson told Marshall, "you made your ruling, now enforce it." And, the march began.

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  53. The crapper has arisen....

    Truly, time to go back to bed.

    b

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  54. But Deuce, King Herod, he was not a "real" Jew.

    Those indigenous folks in America when the Europeons came, not "real" people.

    Nor were the Africans sold on the block, in Charleston.
    Not a whole person, at least not politically.
    3/5 of a person when counting for representation in Congress.
    0/0 when counting voters.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Again, boobie, mutual accusations are not of equal weight.

    The truth can be divined.

    Cain has a "Thing" for lighter skinned women. He had a affair, he lied to his wife, at least by omission.

    Your lady Sarah had a Basketball Jones. When she was single.

    The truth is Easy, like an A.

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  56. Talk about having a bad run of luck. One day you're living a happy, prosperous life in Gwondanaland, with nothing much to worry about other than getting run over by a herd of elephants, or eaten by a Lion, and the next thing you know

    you're dragging along behind your broke-ass Cherokee "Master," on a thousand mile trek to just about the most desolate spot on earth.

    All because you snuck out in the middle of the night to get a little strange "tang," and got captured by the slave-traders.

    It's enough to make a Brother cry.

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  57. Then we have misogony and honor killings. It seems to me Jesus took objection to the local habit of stoning woman to death for bringing disgrace to the family and tribe by consentual or force sex by in all cases a man.

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  58. As the lady said, of the affair she had with Mr Cain.

    It was "just" sex.
    For 16 years.

    Convenient for both, no doubt.

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  59. Deuce said...

    Then we have misogony and honor killings. It seems to me Jesus took objection to the local habit of stoning woman to death for bringing disgrace to the family and tribe by consentual or force sex by in all cases a man.


    After reading the Old Testament, which reads like the script for Caligula, the last thing I want to hear is someone telling me the Israelites have the superior moral and historical claim to that little strip of land. It was all about military force, and it still is.

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  60. DR: Your lady Sarah had a Basketball Jones. When she was single.

    Larry Bird or Bill Walton, the southern GOP bloc would have forgiven her.

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  61. DR: We're talking 1940's technology. Keeping Iran from that, like putting toothpaste back in the tube.

    Yes, we did it in the 1940s, which means 20th Century Americans were no dummies, but all they teach for physics in the Dar al-Islam is Sura 18:83 "I shall recite unto you a remembrance of him. Lo! We made him strong in the land and gave him unto every thing a road. And he followed a road Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout."

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  62. The Canaanites killed their kids, Teresita.

    You wouldn't want 'em to do that, would you?

    Here

    The archaeologists have found all sorts of evidence of child sacrifice along the Med. coast, little burial boxes, etc.

    b

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  63. On the other hand, nookie to make the crops grow, well.....

    My wife and I have tried that.


    b

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  64. Anonymous Bob:
    The archaeologists have found all sorts of evidence of child sacrifice along the Med. coast, little burial boxes, etc.


    My sister-in-law had a premature baby die after nine days, and buried her in a coffin the size of a carton of cigarettes. Two thousand years from now some asshole like you will claim the box is evidence that she sacrificed her baby to the gods Facebook and Kardashian.

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  65. They oughta put pitchers of Dead Babies on Cigarette Kartons, that'll stop those Adicks from killen us all w/they're second hand smoke.

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  66. The Jews killed their children, too, boobie.

    Herod,the Great, King of the Jews murdered a slew of them.

    There being no moral superiority to the Canaanites, by their conquerors.

    Proven by performance.

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  67. Be sure to contribute to Planned Parenthood.

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  68. Somebody's gotta make a stand for Civilization.

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  69. Maybe Newt is the Male equivalent of Sarah Palin.
    Sure to lose by motivating the Democrat base and scaring off independents.
    Can't wait for four more years of Barack Hussein Obama.

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  70. Herod,the Great, King of the Jews murdered a slew of them.


    Good God.


    Testy today, Miss T?

    That's the first time you've called me an asshole.

    b

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  71. That's what I thought.
    ...not that I was keeping count.

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  72. Are you still sane, Doug?

    The ranks of the sane is getting thin around here.


    Herod the Great.


    Christ, the crapper doesn't know how stupid that comment is.

    b

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  73. Same comment that Deuce made, boobie.

    Time for you to leave, again.

    That, or get back on the medication that was previously prescribed.

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  74. Herod the Great.

    Sweet Jesus, I can't get over that comment.

    Some have said it was better to be Herod's pig than his son, however.

    b

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  75. "Are you still sane, Doug?"

    Hard to tell.

    Who could I ask?

    ReplyDelete
  76. If deuce made a similar comment about Herod, then he's as much an idiot as you.

    b

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  77. And indeed he is painting himself into a corner where he will have to vote for some other, if he votes at all, than the Republican candidate, who is likely to be a supporter of Israel.

    Maybe he'll go with Quirk, and maybe even me, and vote Natural Law Party.


    b

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  78. As I said, boobie, it is time for you to leave, or get back on your medication.

    Now you're being rude to your host.

    Typical.

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  79. You could ask me.

    I'd answer, yes, you are.

    I'm going to exercise at the Mall.

    b

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  80. I'll repeat it, and it is not rude -

    Anonymous said...

    If deuce made a similar comment about Herod, then he's as much an idiot as you.


    I don't recall him making such a comment, though.

    b

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  81. .

    I have to agree with the others here today, bobbo. Your ignorance of the slaughter of the innocents appears complete.

    Or as the rat would say,

    TASTY!


    rat: boobie, your ignorance is palatable.


    .

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  82. .

    Curiouser and curiouser.

    We hear that the Republican Jewish Coalition is going to sponser a GOP debate and now that Donald Trump is going to moderate one.

    I have said I have already watched my one GOP debate until the process takes it down to two candidates. However, I may have to make an exception on the chance Trump will forget which show he is on and start out by firing Bachman, Cain, Huntsman, Perry, and Santorum.

    The GOP never ceases to amuse.

    .

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  83. Herod the Great appears in the Gospel according to Matthew (Ch. 2), which describes an event known as the Massacre of the Innocents. According to this account, after the birth of Jesus, Magi from the East visited Herod to inquire the whereabouts of "the one having been born king of the Jews", because they had seen his star in the east and therefore wanted to pay him homage. Herod, as King of the Jews, was alarmed at the prospect of a usurper. Herod assembled the chief priests and scribes of the people and asked them where the "Anointed One" (the Messiah, Greek: Ο Χριστός (ho christos)) was to be born. They answered, in Bethlehem, citing Micah 5:2. Herod therefore sent the Magi to Bethlehem, instructing them to search for the child and, after they had found him, to "report to me, so that I too may go and worship him". However, after they had found Jesus, the Magi were warned in a dream not to report back to Herod. Similarly, Joseph was warned in a dream that Herod intended to kill Jesus, so he and his family fled to Egypt. When Herod realized he had been outwitted by the Magi, he gave orders to kill all boys of the age of two and under in Bethlehem and its vicinity. Joseph and his family stayed in Egypt until Herod's death, then moved to Nazareth in Galilee in order to avoid living under Herod's son Archelaus.

    Bethlehem was a small place so the number of children murdered is not known, but I think a reasonable person can conclude that if it was one or more, King Herod was a child killer.

    You can argue that anything in the Bible is open to question. If that is the case, then all is open to question as nothing in the Bible has more authority than anything else in the Bible. Question is doubt. Everything in the Bible derives its authority because it is in the Bible. If question and doubt is used for certain passages because it makes the reader uncomfortable and other passages give comfort and solace, then the authority is optional and that is the definition of a diminished authority.

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  84. Sorry if it offends, truth sometimes offends worse than a lie.

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  85. Once again the "bar" shows it's true colors...

    So many mis-statements, distortions and outright lies...

    But rather than waste one ounce of time or effort at trying to correct the haters that run and post here I will say this...

    Israel IS.

    There is NO nation called "Palestine" at this time.

    Israel thrives even when she stands against the collective hatred of the world.

    The American people by a hugh % GET IT, even if the members of this blog do not.

    This blog is NOT reflective of the majority of Americans.

    But please understand this. The Islamic nutcases that inhabit the world is NOT just Israel's issue. These anti-civilization types are even more hating of America and her ways that values.

    So as you cast lies, distortions and bullshit against the Jews, Israel, Zionism and Judaism?

    karma is a big kick in the groin...

    And I am certain that your embrace of evil will bite you in your asses someday.

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  86. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  87. Once correction:


    Leon Panetta Warns Israel About Growing Isolation
    Posted at 08:22 PM ET, 12/02/2011
    Panetta: Israel should ‘just get to the damn table’ with Palestine



    No, he said "palestinians" not palestine...

    there NEVER has been a nation called Palestine.

    Ever.

    And at this date?

    Seems unlikely to happen anytime soon...

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  88. .

    On secularism vs Sharia law, the Muslim Brotherhood, like some here, say one thing one day and something different another. They are currently struggling with the hardline Salifist party which won 25% of the vote in the recent Egyptian election.

    The Salafis are looking for a return to 'that old time religion'. You know, no interest, no alcohol, no fornication.

    Oh yeah, and stoning as punishment for adultery.

    A good portion of the people in the ME continue to be badshit crazy, believing word for word in books written centuries ago, static, never progressing.

    And our State Department tries to search for the winning side, being blown by the wind, moving to this day's headlines, continuing to look more and more like a corrupt and inconsistent suitor that has nothing to offer but money.

    .

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  89. Little lady has a splitting headache so I have no ride to the Mall.


    The Slaughter of the Innocents.

    Christ, you are all morons.

    Herod had no more awareness that Jesus was being born than some Nez Perce fishing for salmon here, 2,000 years ago.

    There is a motif in mythology, the hero often suffers a remarkable birth, and dangers (not always of course, mythology being what it is, think Gautama) and survives. Think Moses floating down the Nile in a wicker basket. Think the slaughter of the innocents. Have we heard something similar elsewhere, before? It is so obvious.

    If you think Herod was tipped to the birth of Jesus, some wise man whispering in his ear, who was born sometime somewhere up north, then you are still living in the kindergarten of the gullible and non comprehending.

    It is a miraculous birth story.

    b

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  90. Bethlehem was a small place so the number of children murdered is not known, but I think a reasonable person can conclude that if it was one or more, King Herod was a child killer.

    GODDAMN!!!!!


    grrrrrr


    AND were there wise men from the east, that followed a star, deuce?

    And little lambs, and shit?

    Or was he really born somewhere around Nazareth?

    b

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  91. Herod killed some kids, it is reported, his own.

    I can feature that.

    b

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  92. .

    AND were there wise men from the east, that followed a star, deuce?


    A good point bobbo. Though there is usually some aspect of truth around which the myths are written.

    However, the key point is you are a believer (faith) or not. You accept the Bible as the word of god or not. You can't say you deny the slaughter of the innocents yet you believe god took a little time out one day to come down to tell the Jews how great they were and by the way "I've got a little property you might be interested in. No money down and all you have to do is slaughter the other tribes that live there."

    .

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  93. To equate the Old Testament with the Torah and the understandings that lie within both those DIFFERENT books is an understatement...

    The Christians TRY to tell us what the Torah says by reading the Old Testament...

    Talk about nonsense.

    This Blog's understanding of Historic Jewish writings couldnt fill a thimble but that doesnt stop the posters from having opinions about the Jews, israel, Zionism and Torah.

    Talk about nitwits gabbing at the bar...

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  94. Talk about nitwits gabbing at the bar...



    Oh, I can understand you point of view. Just like all those Jewish scholars that are now printing Jewish New Testaments.

    How can they understand all that "secret knowledge".

    Well I'll tell you WiO, if you are ever in need of some additional 'secret knowledge' let me know and I'll work out a deal for you with my friends at the Rosecrucians.

    Nitwits?

    You continue to amuse.

    .

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  95. Matthew 2:17-18 says Jeremiah 31:15 is fulfilled by the slaughter of male infants, ordered by Herod. The Jeremiah text actually refers to the writer imagining Rachel, the mother of Joseph and Benjamin, weeping from her tomb in Ramah over her slaughtered children; the text then has God telling the exiles not to weep as they would one day return.
    There is nothing in the text which refers to a wholesale slaughter of infants in the future. Note that Josephus, the Jewish historian, who was keen to record undesirable details about Herod, makes no mention of it. It is not mentioned in any other New Testament writing.



    Here

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  96. How are Christmas sales going this year at SoulsRUs, Quirk?

    Have you been able yet to notice any uptick in the nation's economy?

    This snowy time of year, we all need some cheering news.

    Like the birth of a savior, escaping a slaughter of the innocents, for instance.

    I am in the market for a trail/cam, myself, this Christmas.

    b

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  97. .

    How are Christmas sales going this year at SoulsRUs, Quirk?


    A little slow. We have an Occupy group camping out in the Temple courtyard.

    On Black Friday, a large group of crazed shoppers nearly destroyed our shop looking for the 'secret knowledge' we had on back order. Dozens of cowls and robes had to be dumped because they were corrupted by pepper spray.

    Not good. Not good at all.



    I am in the market for a trail/cam, myself, this Christmas.

    You've got a long way to go in order to get on the "good boys" list.


    .

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  98. Who is it that embraces Islam Here? Who embraces evil?

    there NEVER has been a nation called Palestine.

    Ever.

    And at this date?

    Seems unlikely to happen anytime soon…


    There were no nations called Israel before the end of WWII. Nations as we know them did not exist before the 18th century. Israel is a political construct with no more or no less credibility than any other. Nations come and go. The Europeans are trying to break down the very concept of nation statehood.

    Israel will last as long as it establishes and maintains political, economic and military viability. For a small country surrounded by nations that number in the tens and hundreds of millions, it follows a strange recent policy of increasing isolation. Israel is totally dependent on the US. Any student of history will recognize the risk in such a strategy. Technology can create a reality that was unforeseeable, but human nature is constant and predictable.

    Israel thinks and acts as if it will always have American support. The current crop of American politicians say that support will always be there for Israel, unless of course it isn’t. Unshakeable until it shakes. It is a political Maginot line. It is good until the helicopters are lifting from embassy roof tops.

    Israel is a nation of five million standing flatfooted as neighboring nations of far greater size slip from friend to foe. Israel is cursed with fools for current leaders who think they know best. Anyone of Israel’s neighbors has the money and expertise tp acquire nuclear weapons. Live by the sword and you will die by the sword.

    Isreal better hope that a leader will emerge that understands where real strength exists. It does not lie behind walls of the mind or those of concrete slabs. Israel identifies her critics as enemies and as anti-semites. She mistakes those that smile and shake her hands as friends. Mazel tov.

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  99. Herman leaves and threatens all the candidates that he may be supporting one of them soon.

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  100. I am pretty much an average redneck - predisposed to view Israel in a favorable light.

    When you browbeat me with the "anti-semite" moniker every time I disagree with an Israeli policy, or politician you are engaging in a self-destructive behavior.

    Why would anyone think that I would (or, should) blindly support any, and all Israeli policies when I don't even bestow that blessing on My Own government's policies and actions?

    This "anti-semitism" stuff is starting to wear thin.

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  101. I don't see Israel as pursuing a policy of increasing isolation. I see the muzzies in Turkey, Egypt, Libya returning to their idiotic roots.

    Is this Israel's fault?

    Who knows, maybe a new Kurdistan will arise out of it.

    It won't be long before those Iranian nukes are fitted on missiles that can reach France, Germany, England.....

    Maybe Israel is right, it's not just their problem, but a world problem.

    b

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  102. Iran is going to nuke France? You believe that?

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  103. There is not even a maybe that Israel is right. It is an absurd argument. A nuclear weapon falling into the hands of an Islamic crazy is a Pakistani possibility not an Iranian one.

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  104. Israel was getting along all right with the military folks in Egypt and Turkey, seems to me, but now the winds are changing, and, as we know, our esteemed President has said, "If the political winds change, I'll stand with the Muslims."

    I still can't believe we elected such a man.

    If he had said, if the political winds change, I'll head for Yellowpine, Idaho I might understand it.

    Might even meet him there....

    b

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  105. I believe there are plenty of them who might buy into nuking Israel.

    I don't think they are going to nuke France tomorrow, no, particularily since they are taking over France by having babies anyway, I just don't like the idea of muslim nuclear missiles able to reach most anywhere.


    b

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  106. Too late, that barn door was left open a long time ago and we have been in a hot fire war with that country lately.

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  107. Dear Rufus

    you state:
    This "anti-semitism" stuff is starting to wear thin.


    Well if the shoe fits sherlock.

    When you harp on Israel and Israel ONLY and apply no discussions or standards to any other nation that is anti-semtic

    To list your opinions about aid to Israel and your opposition to it and be detailed for months and months only to add the caveat that you oppose :all aid" is anti-semetic.

    this blog focuses on aid to Israel, Israeli crimes and Jewish and zionist arrogance with a factor beyond Israel's footprint.

    If Israel is 6 million people that sit on 1/900th of the middle east? you should be harping on the REST of the middle east 899/900 rather that the hourly focus on Israeli crimes.

    No it is anti-semetic to apply one standard ONLY to israel, Jews or zionism and no standard to anyone else.

    Dont like the label?

    tuff shit...

    The people who see you, deuce, rat and ms t CLEARLY see anti-semitic behaviors...

    Maybe this blog could take a month and not post nonsensical threads that are blood libelish, jew baiting or down right blantant lies?

    I doubt it...

    this blog has proven it's hatred of Jews, Israel, Zionism and Judaism

    Dont want to call it anti-semitic?

    fine, how about just calling it "ignorant discourse of human lowlifes" is that better?

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  108. The horse does look to be out of the barn, or at least almost, alas.

    Even I think it's getting to be too late.

    Maybe the die was cast back there in the days of Jimmy Carter.

    So if deterrence is all we've got.....

    Sanctions and sabotage isn't going to do the trick.

    b

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  109. You're just an idiot, Wio. You remind me of the drunken Israeli kid in that video. Guaranteed to win Israel enmity, not friends.

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  110. Well, the good news is that the Obama administration has been quietly busy on the missile defense front. They even have one unit going up inside Europe, I understand. Italy, I think it was (maybe France.)

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  111. :):)

    House Ethics Committee will continue investigation into Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr.


    By Associated Press, Published: December 2

    WASHINGTON — The House Ethics Committee announced Friday it will continue its investigation into allegations Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. or someone acting on his behalf offered to raise campaign cash for then-Gov. Rod Blagojevich in exchange for a Senate appointment in 2008.

    The committee also released an initial report from the Office of Congressional Ethics that said there was “probable cause” to believe that Jackson either directed a third party or had knowledge of a third party’s effort to convince the since-convicted Blagojevich to appoint Jackson Jr. in exchange for campaign cash.

    The report, originally compiled in August 2009, also said there is “substantial reason to believe” Jackson Jr. violated federal law by using his congressional staff to mount a “public campaign” to secure a Senate appointment.


    You know in your heart J.J.Jr. is guilty of this.



    b

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  112. Anonymous Bob: That's the first time you've called me an asshole.

    Well, since you don't care about my opinions anymore Bob, what's it to you? You know what they say about opinions and assholes.

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  113. I care about you're opinions.

    Otherwise I wouldn't have been hurt.

    Happy Christmas Season and New Year to you, Miss T., if it's not too early for that.


    b

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  114. Rufus II said...
    You're just an idiot, Wio. You remind me of the drunken Israeli kid in that video. Guaranteed to win Israel enmity, not friends.



    And you dont discuss issues seriously...

    You fling rants and arrows, you are not capable of actually having a discussion.

    Just nonsense...

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  115. Do not be fooled by the headline yesterday about the unemployment rate falling. That number reflects huge numbers of people leaving the labor force because they are discouraged about the prospects of finding a job.

    Don't Be Fooled

    b

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  116. I reject the charge that this blog is anti-Semitic, critical yes, but most of the criticism (not all) is towards the politics and hypocrisy of American politicians.
    Latin Americans, France, Muslims, China and Democrats have come under harsher attacks than Israel. George Bush, Obama, Pat Buchanan, most of the French politicians have been treated far more critically.

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  117. I welcome rebuttal and discussion. I have been far harsher in my criticism about Abraham Lincoln and have no idea what his religion was. I read the Israeli press and have personal friends who are Israeli and have written nothing that I would not say to their face. I do not believe Israel is more special or less special. I also strongly believe that Israel, under Netanyahu is following a course that is as disastrous for Israel as George Bush was for the US.

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  118. Despite the constipation of some, the vast majority of "simple" Americans (let's say 240mil, more or less) support Israel. It does feel sooooo good to write that. Why, there is no need to qaulify it at all; it just is :-). And when I think about how that reality bursts the balloons of baffoons, well, I just say :-))))))! OooooYah...

    The great thing about the Jewish myth is that it is the myth that just keeps on giving - Right, Haman?

    Jewish writing goes back to at least the 11th century BCE. This is known by evidence (that's the stuff that does not require feeling for validation). The physical evidence speaks of matters covered within the expansive Torah, aka Tanakh. This would, then, strongly suggest that the ideas predated the text by some lengthy period of time and probably was covered by some proto-text (why, even the much respected ancient Cherokees did not have an alpahbet and a single piece of literature until the 19th century CE - that would be a difference in favor of Hebrew of 3,000 years, more or less; and not to put too fine a point on it, what is the piece of Sioux literature I should look to for enlightenment in the BCE or CE?)

    Now, I know that there will be some who think (feel) I have no respect for native Americans because their literary output was nill prior to meeting the white man; they would be wrong; I just call the facts as I see them, no harm intended. For those who take this as insult, consider the words of Franklin: "The sting of insult is truth."

    Have a great day.

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  119. Bob, here are the Real numbers. BLS Report

    About 2% was from people finding jobs. 278,000

    About 2% was from people leaving the labor force. 315,000

    Some of those people would be retiring, etc.

    One Good piece of news was that for the second month over 300,000 went from part-time to full-time employment.

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  120. Overall, it was a pretty good report. That does make two in a row.

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  121. I've decided I'm part Jewish.
    Gives me an explanation for my wife when I insist on a lengthy stay in clorox when a saucer gets caught and used by the cats.

    Maybe Allen would know if you boiled dishes THEN gave them a clorox soak after being used for dogf... er, non-kosher food, if they'd then be kosher again.

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  122. "I go and I keep friends with [Abe] Rosenthal at The New York Times and people of that sort, you know. And all -- I mean, not all the Jews, but a lot of the Jews are great friends of mine, they swarm around me and are friendly to me because they know that I'm friendly with Israel. But they don't know how I really feel about what they are doing to this country."
    ___Billy Graham

    Neither Brother Billy nor his son Franklin have been willing to take a public position and elaborate on what it is Jews are doing to America. Neither have been willing to speak to the fate of Jewish souls emancipated by the Shoah. (Although I suspect that DR has the answers but is just too darned humble to give them.)

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  123. You can not claim ignorance of a culture as proof that they had no culture. A culture that is in harmony with itself such that it is tied to the environment and cycle of life, in harmony with the nature of man and place, that does not look to specific people has no need for written literature. If a person views their life as being what all life should be, was in the past and will be in the future does not need a written history. I’ll do a post on that and you have a nice day as well Allen. I would welcome your input.

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  124. Interestingly, the Cherokee once had a "Priest" class. The people got fed up with the corruption, though, and told them to take a hike (the history books aren't clear on whether they cut off their heads before issuing the pink slips, however.)

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  125. Doug,

    You would need a rabbinic finding. If you are dissatsified with the first, keep trying; you will eventually find a rabbi who is willing to share your opinion. Do I seem hypercritical? Gee, I hope not! Rather, I like to think that I call them as I see them, without prejudice.

    What I do know, Doug, is that this little myth of ours has been around for at least 3,500 years. It has withstood every imaginable trial and test, including the murders of vast numbers of my brethern through the millenia. We just keep ticking. As to how long anyother group has been on the planet, we have to turn to the evidence. The evidence, as even Toynbee at the end of his life admitted, certainly is mitigating. We are going nowhere until the last cockroach and last dog dies.

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  126. I wouldn't defend Billy, but I wonder if some of his invective toward Jews, like Nixon's was, is directed toward the attitudes and policies of liberal Jews in name only?

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  127. more on culture in the next post.

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  128. I think we'd be a lot better off if we had maintained an attitude isolation from the "culture" of the Muzzies, instead of pretending, ala compassionate George and Barack Hussein, that we could almost instantly convert their societies into Jeffersonian Democracies.

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  129. Deuce,

    You are entitled to your opinions. You are not entitled to your own facts.

    Clearly, you think Netanyahu an "ass". Well, my friend, the line for that complaint requires a number.

    Clearly, you would have America stay out of any war in the ME involving Israel. Well, my friend, there are myriad of us who wish you all had tended your own knitting in the past. For example, no one on our side called on Condi for assistance in 2006.

    As to what the US has lost during the lifespan of Israel, please name a single American in uniform who died fighting in an Israeli war at the order of his government.

    You lay your complaints about Israel at the wrong door. We don't want you; we don't need you to do more that get out of the way (Of course, we do expect you to honor all CONTRACTS pending).

    Somehow I FEEL that under the most pristine of conditions you would still find fault with Israel - not to worry, we don't.

    PS: As to your ubiquitous complaint of American money being transfered to Israel, stop asking for our technology and diplomatic cover. However, if you want to break a silly treaty you made with the Soviet/Russians, our help will cost you: IT and defensive IBCM technology does not come cheap; and given the sorry fact that you guys are unable to produce engineers, well, life is not fair (Kennedy).

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  130. Allen: As to what the US has lost during the lifespan of Israel, please name a single American in uniform who died fighting in an Israeli war at the order of his government.

    I got 34 names right here.

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  131. T said...
    I got 34 names right here.

    Sat Dec 03, 07:25:00 PM EST



    Bunk!

    It is and will remain

    16 Israel
    0 Misguided

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  132. "no one on our side called on Condi for assistance in 2006"

    I have no doubt W's admin would have been better off w/o both she and The Colon.

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