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Sunday, April 25, 2010

Christopher Columbus was bad for American Indians. Alien life could be far worse for Earthlings.



In the summer of 2005 funding was withdrawn from The Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter (JIMO).

It was a proposed mission to orbit three of the Galilean satellites, Europa, Ganymede, and Callisto, all or any which may have subsurface oceans and possibly the ingredients for life.

The spacecraft was to have been launched by a conventional chemical rocket, but once in space would have been driven by an ion propulsion system, electric thrusters powered by a small nuclear reactor.

Too bad that.

The more we learn about space, the more likely it is that life exists in many places and in ways both strange and familiar. There is compelling evidence that life on earth was introduced from space. Where did that come from?

To the surprise of some and no surprise to others, it may all have come from the hand of God or stranger yet from no one.

___________________________________________


Stephen Hawking: alien life is out there, scientist warns

Stephen Hawking has suggested that aliens almost certainly exist but has warned humanity not to try to contact them.

Published: 8:39AM BST 25 Apr 2010 Telegraph

One of the world's leading scientists makes the claim in a new television documentary series, beginning on the Discovery Channel next month.

Hawking says that in a universe with 100 billion galaxies, each containing hundreds of millions of stars, it is unlikely that earth is the only place where life has evolved.

"To my mathematical brain, the numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly rational," he said, according to The Sunday Times.

"The real challenge is working out what aliens might actually be like."

Hawking says that they could be microbes – basic animals such as worms which have been on Earth for millions of years, but suggests that extraterrestrial life could develop much further.

"We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn't want to meet," Hawking said.

"I imagine they might exist in massive ships, having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonise whatever planets they can reach."

The scientist, who is paralysed by motor neurone disease, warned that contact with alien life could spell disaster for the human race.

"If aliens ever visit us, I think the outcome would be much as when Christopher Columbus first landed in America, which didn't turn out very well for the American Indians."




142 comments:

  1. ALL Life on Earth shares a common DNA strand. That means in the 4 Billion Years of Earth's existence "life" happened (and survived) Exactly Once.

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  2. it also means that in 4 billion years we have never been exterminated by intelligent aliens...

    unless they are actually microscopic and live at a world level 1/10,000 of our size scale...

    then I guess viruses could be actually intelligent and tiny...

    little tiny space harvesters...

    harvesting big fat organic molecules....

    who knows. maybe WE ARE FEED....

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  3. From Ross Douthat today at the NYT

    "In ours, though, even Parker’s and Stone’s wildest outrages often just blur into the scenery. In a country where the latest hit movie, “Kick-Ass,” features an 11-year-old girl spitting obscenities and gutting bad guys while dressed in pedophile-bait outfits, there isn’t much room for real transgression. Our culture has few taboos that can’t be violated, and our establishment has largely given up on setting standards in the first place.

    Except where Islam is concerned. There, the standards are established under threat of violence, and accepted out of a mix of self-preservation and self-loathing.

    This is what decadence looks like: a frantic coarseness that “bravely” trashes its own values and traditions, and then knuckles under swiftly to totalitarianism and brute force.

    Happily, today’s would-be totalitarians are probably too marginal to take full advantage. This isn’t Weimar Germany, and Islam’s radical fringe is still a fringe, rather than an existential enemy.

    For that, we should be grateful. Because if a violent fringe is capable of inspiring so much cowardice and self-censorship, it suggests that there’s enough rot in our institutions that a stronger foe might be able to bring them crashing down."




    .

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  4. It maybe we have it all wrong. It may be BioCentrissm, the book,and our consciourness is first, not last. As in Kant, Schopenhaueer and others.

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  5. We will fall Some day, Q, but not This day.

    Nations fall for one simple reason; they are conquered - or, in certain bizarre instances, the people run away. That last being, it seems, pretty much a S. American Indian thing.

    We won't be conquered for awhile, yet. We still have the Oceans around us, and a kick-ass military to guard the borders.

    Of course, in the very, very, very best outcome we'll still get covered in ice, eventually.

    No plan is "dead, solid perfect." :)

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  6. Looks like the bailouts will cost the taxpayers $87 Billion, according to Geithner.

    Well, that's better than the $500 Billion they were talking about last year.

    Like I said, boys, look out for the "lowball." . . . er, highball. :)

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  7. All about Moody's, and CDOs if you have the stomach for it.

    The last paragraph might be destructive to your blood pressure.

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  8. AAA Ratings

    Rating-firm analysts were expressing concern that CDO models were flawed in late 2006, according to e-mails released by the Senate panel. CDOs were among the largest sources of the almost $1.78 trillion of writedowns and credit losses suffered by the world’s largest financial companies since 2007, according to Bloomberg data.

    The securitization underwritten this week by New York-based Citigroup will be granted AAA ratings from Moody’s and not be graded by other firms, said the people familiar with the matter, who declined to be identified because the sale is private. About 74 percent of the mortgages, which have an average value of $932,699 and 46 percent of which are on California properties, allow borrowers to pay only interest for the first 10 years.

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  9. Why would that bother me, rufus?

    I hold no stock in that bank, and the overall effect will be to stabilize the housing market, with affordable loans.

    Until the mortgages go into default, which they may not do, being based on payments of interest only. Depends upon what the notes do, in ten years, do they balloon, or is a modification of the repayment schedule built in from the get go?

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  10. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  11. 5% on ! million bucks, $50,000.
    Divided by 12.
    $4,200 per month in interest/rent payments

    Plus the property taxes on a million dollar home.

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  12. We are at war. It’s a global war. It extends from Pakistan and Afghanistan to India, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, and from there towards Israel and then down to Egypt, Sudan and Somalia, and west to Europe and ultimately to America. It targets Canada and Australia, Honduras and Colombia, and all those who challenge fanatical intolerance and instead advocate freedom. It is a continuation of the ancient war of tyranny against freedom, a war that will endure so long as freedom threatens the power and legitimacy of monarchs and dictators.

    That war — a war of awesome dimensions, a war with a long and bloody history — is not the consequence of this or that unpopular policy but above all of beliefs we are not even supposed to pronounce nowadays: the crazed visions of Muslim extremists who are waging jihad against us. And the beliefs of radical secular extremists who share the goals of jihad.

    That war is being waged by people who hate America and Israel, as they hate Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists, and those many Muslims who want to live in peace.

    What? Did you forget that the Taliban destroyed statues of Buddha? Does anybody believe that they would have been spared if there were peace between Israel and the Palestinian Authority?

    Yet there are those — people in positions of great prestige and power, some in government, some in the press, some in the universities — who insist that all would be well if only Prime Minister Netanyahu told a few Jews they can’t live in a certain neighborhood of Jerusalem. That Israel’s enemies — who are also OUR enemies — would scrap their global jihad if only there were one more Arab country in the Middle East.

    To demonstrate their conviction that Israel is the problem, these people treat Israel’s enemies — who are also OUR enemies — with greater respect than they showed Israelis. Prime Minister Netanyahu is treated as an unwelcome guest at the White House while radical Islamists are constantly asked, very politely, to be reasonable and to become our friends.

    Sometimes they even receive a bow.

    This is folly. It is morally corrupt and strategically misguided. Consider the case of Iran, the world’s leading sponsor of terrorists. The Islamic Republic of Iran declared war on the United States in 1979, and has waged war against us for 31 years. Iranian-supported terrorists, alongside Iranian military personnel, are killing American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan today, at the same time that they are organizing lethal assaults against Israeli civilians and military personnel. Even today Hezbollah is receiving new rockets and missiles, new intelligence assessments, new supplies of ammunition, directly from Iran. And yet, in all these years, the United States has never directly challenged Iran, never made that dreadful regime pay an appropriate price for the murders it has committed and supported.

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  13. Anyone who looks clearly at the Iranian regime knows that the mullahs make no distinction between the United States and Israel except a geographical one: Israel is closer. But both are targeted for destruction. When thousands of Iranians are mobilized in the streets to chant “death to America!” — what do you think they mean?

    The Iranians have been doing these things for 31 years. They are not a response to apartment flats in Jerusalem. They are acts of an evil regime fully committed to the destruction of the United States and of Israel.

    And yet, the prime minister of Israel is singled out for public humiliation while the supreme leader of Iran is addressed respectfully. Israeli housing policy is considered a greater threat to peace than Iranian attacks against Americans and Israelis. While there is much talk about sanctions and about the Iranian nuclear program, we are not doing anything against the Iranian terrorists and their proxies: Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, Islamic Jihad, and the many others, including Al Qaeda.

    It is folly. It is morally corrupt and strategically misguided. Instead of fighting our enemies, we direct our moral outrage against Israel’s unquestioned right to govern its own capital city. This must change


    The American people understand this much better than American leaders. Republicans understand that better than Democrats, and American Christians understand it better than American Jews. Just the other day the Anti-Defamation League issued a special report, not about the alarming and disgusting increase in anti-Semitism in this country, including vulgar accusations of dual loyalty (or, as Harvard’s Prof. Walt slyly prefers to put it, conflict of interest) against American Jews in the government, but rather against the miniscule and marginal militia movement in the United States, which is being dealt with quite effectively by our law enforcement bodies.

    Afraid or embarrassed to deal with the real threat to both Israel and the United dates, our leaders prefer to conjure up fantastic bogeymen, from builders of apartment buildings to militias. The bogeymen are the politically correct substitutes for the very real threat that actually menaces our security and perhaps even our survival.

    Where are the so-called leaders of the big American Jewish organizations? Where are the Presidents of major American universities? As Mayor Koch put it so well, the silence is deafening. We all know that in the 1930s, most American Jewish leaders failed to speak out against the indifference of the political class to the plight of the European Jews. It is less well known that American universities were similarly silent, that outspoken Nazi supporters and apologists continued to teach in such distinguished places as Harvard and the University of Chicago, and that they continued to teach at such places long after the Second World War was over.

    Is it Groundhog Day all over again? Will we remain silent as we did in the past? Or will we join with the great majority of our fellow citizens and insist that Israel is entitled to greater respect than her enemies and that our leaders must recognize that Israel’s enemies are OUR enemies too?

    Those of us who have gathered here today know that those who threaten Israel threaten America too. In this moment of great crisis the overwhelming majority of Americans know that, just as our friends around the world proclaimed on September 11, 2001, “we are all Americans,” so today “we are all Israelis.”

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  14. http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/2010/04/25/we-are-all-israelis/?singlepage=true

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  15. But we are not all Israelis, because the Hamas and HB threats, even Iran itself, are not global military threats, but regional ones.

    "misdirection" is trying to globalize a local territorial conflict.

    The proof of this, is on the economic front, where the Iranians COULD behave irrationally and destroy the whirled economy by destroying their own oil production capacity.

    This act would, of course, be irrational. Economic suicide.
    And the Iranians do not take that course, the ones that do advocate for that course of action, to destroy the Iranian oil production capacity, "misdirection", advocating for the Israeli.

    When the Iranian threat, through Hamas and HB is not global, at all.
    A Regional military threat, they are indeed.
    A threat along the historical battle ground of the Persian or Babylonian Empire driving west to the Eastern Med, with the Europeons driving south, along that same shore.

    Since before Alexander the Great was great or even born, this battle has been fought, for the same ground.

    Before there was a "West" the Levant has been the battleground where these territorial disputes have been waged.

    The US should haves no dog in that territorial pissing contest.

    We do business with both sides.

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  16. Or it was the Egyptians driving north along that very shoreline.

    Long before there ever was an Israeli, or even a God of Israel.

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  17. Speaking of aliens....Why not the obvious and go after those that hire illegals, and go after them in a meaningful and expensive way?

    How about this one:

    Find an employer who is hiring illegals and fine him the amount of total health coverage premiums for him and his family for five years.

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  18. This white American farmer,of no particular religious persausion, other than Joe Campbell, and myth, agrees with WiO.

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  19. This white American farmer,of no particular religious persausion, other than Joe Campbell, and myth, agrees with WiO.

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  20. "him" being the illegal worker.

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  21. The logic being that an employer of illegal immigrants, reducing his costs, shifts costs to the general public. Give it back to him in spades.

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  22. Israel is so worried about it that they announced their latest settlement while our Vice President was a guest in their country. Then, Netanyahou told our Pres to go fuck himself.

    Israel is pretty much on its own.

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  23. what rat says; spoken like a true and direct decendant of the romans.

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  24. Evidently, Deuce, the Mexicans have discovered how easy it is to get a more, or less valid ID/Soc. Sec crd. One of those links yesterday said the Feds picked up 300 illegals at one job site, and that All had been e-verified.

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  25. Rufus. You are a smart guy. Lets's play a little game.

    Suppose you and I were examining the 300 illegals and discovered the false ID's held by all of them.

    How long do you think it would take us (legally) to find out who, how, where and when?

    I think we could wrap it up by Thursday.

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  26. Sure, if we wanted to know. I don't think the Feds want to know most of the time.

    My point was, it more or less, let the employer off the hook (unless it was him who steered the illegals to the forger.)

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  27. Rufus is a smart guy?
    He takes Tax Cheat Timmy as Gospel!

    "General Motors Co. repaid $4.7 billion in loans to the Treasury on April 21. The company is still 61 percent owned by taxpayers as part of the financing for the automaker’s 2009 bankruptcy. "

    Let me know when we are repaid the 20 trillion we gave to Wall Street, all-knowing Comrade Rufie!

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  28. Of course, we know that this whole scam is set up to develop Democratic voters.

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  29. ...I know, we'll save that much via Obamacare.

    Like Maasiechutsee.

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  30. I saw your link, Doug. We didn't give $20 T to Wall Street. In fact, the Fed Reserve is reporting a "Profit" of $115 Billion off their "bailout" dealings.

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  31. Individual Premiums are Down 40% in Ma.

    They've polled the people there. No one is in favor of repealing Romneycare. Even the ones that bitch want to keep it.

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  32. Don't get your financial info from websites with names like "housingbubble.com"

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  33. This is driving me crazy. My a" is sticking. If you notice all my words are misspelled with an "o" instead of an "a" you'll know why.

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  34. Yeah, what does investor's business daily know, compared to comrade Rufie.
    ...our Socialist Troll.

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  35. rufus said...
    Israel is so worried about it that they announced their latest settlement while our Vice President was a guest in their country. Then, Netanyahou told our Pres to go fuck himself.

    Israel is pretty much on its own.




    Rufus, Israel has been on it's on before in it's short history

    If Israel didnt care about America it could have destroyed the middle east decades ago....

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  36. "Then, Netanyahou told our Pres to go fuck himself."

    ---
    Barry's lifelong Fantasy Fuck.

    Himself.

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  37. :)

    I wouldn't wipe my a-o with IBD.

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  38. rufus,

    Beware the political spin. From your link "The government expects to make about $115 billion on Federal Reserve programs, including the purchase of mortgage- backed securities, he wrote. " hmmm, expects.

    Add on to that our purchase of the two auto companies and the continuing liabilities they have and the numbers no quite so rosy. Also, how firm are these banks now? I suspect that the move to "mark to fantasy" has improved their capital ratio. Trouble is, how will the fantasy actually hold up when confronted with reality?

    There is also the very real cost to the general public of the fed provide virtually no cost funds to the banks so that they can get a free 3 or so point spread on that money whilst our savings sit collecting...NOTHING!

    The Sovereign debt issues aren't going away and they could very well be the cause of the next unraveling.

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  39. Congress authorized 700 Billion for TARP yet the final tab is only 87 Billion? That smells funny right off. I'd like to see some more detail accounting on that.

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  40. I'm always aware of political spin, Ash - from Both sides.

    I figure those numbers are about right. Bernanke has already hinted at an unusually large payment on its way, and we've been reading every week about repayments from the banks.

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  41. And those Mortgage securities sitting on the Fed balance sheet - what are they worth? Are they valued at what they paid for them?

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  42. Just remember, Ash:
    Comrade Ruf would not wipe his ass with IBD.

    He's with "The Nation" all the way.

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  43. California Mortgages are Priceless!

    'Course there are two ways to look at that.

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  44. "There is an ongoing policy debate about when and at what speed the Federal Reserve Bank should reduce its portfolio of mortgage-backed securities (MBS). The MBS purchase programme was set up with an initial limit of $500 billion, was later expanded to $1.25 trillion, and is about to expire at the end of the first quarter of 2010. At its meeting in mid-December 2009, the Federal Open Market Committee announced that it was continuing its MBS purchases at a “gradually slowing pace.” However, the minutes from that meeting reveal a disagreement among the board members with respect to the need for continuing the programme:"

    http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/4531

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  45. "repayments from the banks.
    "

    ...that the taxpayers have given trillions to in the form of zero interest loans.

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  46. They're worth whatever someone is willing to pay for them, Ash.

    They bought'em cheap.

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  47. You can see what will be 20 years from now if present policies continue:

    It's spelled,

    J A P A N

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  48. geeze louise they deserve those bonuses on wall street for shifting those Mortgage backed securities off the banks balance sheet! Makes the banks balance sheet look so tasty!

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  49. "They bought'em cheap."

    ok, What was the cost basis, all-knowing one?

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  50. 10:08:00 AM EDT

    The essence of Rufus's Religious Belief.

    It's all good.

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  51. No, rufus, I don't believe they bought them cheap at all. What evidence do you have to suggest that the fed gave the banks a haircut on those pieces of paper? That was the purpose of the program - to move the crap off the banks balance sheet and provide them with new cash so they could trade and get bonuses...errrrrr. loan money to folk, yeah, that's it they just turned around and fueled the economy by loaning that newly minted money out.

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  52. That pretty well sums it up, Ash.

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  53. ...it did greatly help the stock market rally.

    Powered by, us.

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  54. and to top it off the Fed allowed investment banks to become banks so that they could belly up to the Fed window. example: Goldman Sachs.

    "
    Goldman Sachs To Become The Fourth Largest Bank Holding Company

    September 21, 2008

    New York, September 21, 2008 -- The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. (NYSE: GS) today announced that it will become the fourth largest Bank Holding Company and will be regulated by the Federal Reserve.

    In recent weeks, particularly in view of market developments, Goldman Sachs has discussed with the Federal Reserve our intention to be regulated as a Bank Holding Company. We understand that the market views oversight by the Federal Reserve and the ability to source insured bank deposits as providing a greater degree of safety and soundness. We view regulation by the Federal Reserve Board as appropriate and in the best interests of protecting and growing our franchise across our diverse range of businesses. "

    http://www2.goldmansachs.com/our-firm/press/press-releases/archived/2008/bank-holding-co.html

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  55. $115 Billion is $115 Billion.

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  56. You don't know?

    I thot you knew more than IBD and the good Bubble Doctor.

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  57. They were not a bank before they were a bank, Ash.

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  58. Hey, NOBODY has pounded the table harder to throw the bums in jail than I have. I just refuse to drink the koolaid (from "either" side.)

    Politics is politics, and numbers is numbers.

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  59. "We view regulation by the Federal Reserve Board as appropriate and in the best interests of protecting and growing our franchise across our diverse range of businesses."

    ---
    Ain't that the truth.
    Confront too big to fail with bigger than to big to fail.

    New competitors welcome, if they can overcome the newly freshened headwinds.

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  60. Rufie wants capitalists jailed.

    Government enforcers, eulogized.

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  61. Well, see doug, there are banks and then there are banks. Actually investment banks were very different from banks and a key to the difference was what they were allowed to do and what was backed up by FDIC and the federal reserve. I know you hate the thought but REGULATIONS.

    Anyway, the fed went into overdrive to prevent a total collapse of the financial system and they seem to have succeeded in that but to claim that the cost was minimal I think is just political spin. There was a very real cost and not all the accounting is done yet nor is all the trouble over but most folks and the markets seem to think it is all fine and dandy now. Nothing but blue skies and growth ahead. I wish it were true but I have my doubts, serious doubts. A buddy of mine is a bond trader and he spoke of the fear that gripped the market when the PIIGS problem first gripped the markets back in February. He said it was very similar to the fear in the market back in September '08. I haven't talked to him recently but all these attempts to keep Greece on the Euro train doesn't appear to be going smoothly.

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  62. " Actually investment banks were very different from banks and a key to the difference was what they were allowed to do and what was backed up by FDIC and the federal reserve.

    I know you hate the thought but REGULATIONS.
    "
    ---
    Nope, that made sense to me.

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  63. They dismantled a bunch of regulations over the past few decades and I fully support re-regulating those weasels. Urge the GOP to stop their foolish intransigence!

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  64. "A buddy of mine is a bond trader and he spoke of the fear that gripped the market when the PIIGS problem first gripped the markets back in February. He said it was very similar to the fear in the market back in September '08. I haven't talked to him recently but all these attempts to keep Greece on the Euro train doesn't appear to be going smoothly."

    ---
    Good discussion of that @ BC.

    ...although I'll admit Leo Lenbeck the third is no Rufus.

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  65. Obama's "reforms" will further empower Goldman Suchs.

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  66. The "cost" was in the Trillions. But, that is not what was discussed in the article. The subject was "cost to treasury."

    I've been saying for months that that is going to come in a whole lot less than the Right-Wing Hyperbolators have been wailing about.

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  67. On what basis do you say they will further empower Goldman?

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  68. well, what about this political spin then rufus:

    "Blogger rufus said...

    Looks like the bailouts will cost the taxpayers $87 Billion, according to Geithner."

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  69. People make the mistake of thinking of Greece as a European country.

    Greece is more of a ME country. It certainly has more in common with Turkey than it does with Germany or Belgium.

    Greece got into the EU because wealthy Northern Europeans were in love with the idea of owning Greek villas.

    Greece will be best off with the drachma and the EU will be better off without Greece.

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  70. "On what basis do you say they will further empower Goldman?"
    ---
    Barriers to entry vis a vis Goldman.

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  71. ...but Greece ain't the only country in the EU with serious debt problems, Deuce.

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  72. "Individual Premiums are Down 40% in Ma."


    Where did you get this number?


    What is the context?


    .

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  73. I put up the link a couple of days ago, Q. You could probably google Mass individual premiums 40%, and find it.

    Levin/Merkle are trying to outlaw "proprietary trading" by FDIC insured banks. THAT really needs to go through.

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  74. "Don't get your financial info from websites with names like "housingbubble.com"

    No get them from sights like "Corn-A-GoGo.com and CornTech.com"

    .

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  75. The Germans need to have Greece walk the plank as an example to the others.

    Throwing good marks after bad drachmas makes no sense for the EU bank which is Germany.

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  76. Go to at least three or four sources, and draw your OWN conclusions. As regards "corn," I would go to the USDA, NCGA, and the CBOT.

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  77. "No, the e-mail messages you should be focusing on are the ones from employees at the credit rating agencies, which bestowed AAA ratings on hundreds of billions of dollars’ worth of dubious assets, nearly all of which have since turned out to be toxic waste. And no, that’s not hyperbole: of AAA-rated subprime-mortgage-backed securities issued in 2006, 93 percent — 93 percent! — have now been downgraded to junk status.

    What those e-mails reveal is a deeply corrupt system. And it’s a system that financial reform, as currently proposed, wouldn’t fix."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/26/opinion/26krugman.html?hp

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  78. The FDIC, that is the outrage. Goldman should be an LLC and not a publicly traded stock held by pension funds etc.

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  79. If they Europeans can get the Greeks to walk the plank and remain in the EU they've got a chance. If they boot the Greeks the whole ball of string may unravel.

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  80. What is your beef with the FDIC?

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  81. The only way to fix the ratings agencies is put some bastards in jail. That would focus a few minds.

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  82. "Corrupt" is the absolute correct term. There should be at least hundreds of people in DC, and on Wall Street looking at Jail Time, right now.

    This whole thing was, pure and simple, Fraud.

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  83. "You could probably google Mass individual premiums 40%, and find it."

    Took your Advice Rufus. This was the first article I came to:

    "Since implementation of the reform law in 2006, according to the DHCFP, the number of people with healthcare insurance in Massachusetts--not including Medicare enrolless--has risen approximately 8% from just under 5,100,000 in June 2006 to almost 5,500,000 in June 2009. Including Medicare enrollees, the percentage growth is lower. This could be the result of population growth as opposed to the healthcare reform law although no data is available.

    "(As of the first week of April 2010, the six leading health insurance companies in Massachusetts stopped selling insurance to individuals and small groups, effectively making approximately 1,000,000 people in Massachusetts newly uninsured or potentially about to be uninsured. This includes 200,000 affected immediately according to the Boston Globe on April 10, 2010--that is, these individuals' insurance expired in March--and about 800,000 others affected as their policies expire during 2010. As of the second week of April 2010, some of the six health insurance companies have resumed sales to individuals and small groups but it is not clear to what extent--thatis, just direct, just through the Connector, or both.

    "None of the policies available via the Connector to individuals and small groups before the first week of April 201 are available as of April 14, 2010.)

    "Also according to the DHCFP, approximately 70% of the newly insured received free or subsidized insurance, including some coverage from another new niche insurance program begun in Massachusetts since the 2006 reform law for the unemployed. Payments from the uninsured pool dropped 40% after the reform, although this is somewhat a self-fulfilling number since the payments are limited to monies appropriated. Large group insurers have significantly increased their own exposure under the reform, choosing to self insure. Whether this resulted in better or worse benefits for their employees is not included in DHCFP data (although the benefits presumably meet the mandated minimum).

    "According to the DHFCP, monthly premiums for a 35-year-old living in Boston rose 20% since reform since implementation to $328. Similarly, over the same time period, monthly premiums for a 62-year-old indiviudal subscriber living in central Massachusetts rose from about $500 per month to $600 per month..."


    MA Health Care Reform

    And this:

    During the week of April 5, 2010, the Boston Globe reported that more than a thousand people in Massachusetts had "gamed" the mandate/penalty provision of the law since implementation by choosing to be insured only a few months a year, typically when in need of a specific medical procedure. On the average, the Globe reported, these part-time enrolees were paying $1200-$1600 in premiums over a few months and receiving $10,000 or more in healthcare services before again dropping coverage...


    .

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  84. Wiki?



    As of the second week of April 2010, some of the six health insurance companies have resumed sales to individuals and small groups


    I appreciate the link, but I hate analysis by anecdote. Unfortunately, with "this" subject tht's about all you can do.

    To pick out the premium for one young man in one market, and then an older man in "another" market is a little suspicious to me. I would have to ask, "why?"

    Until I see conflicting "real" numbers I'll stick with my assertion that individual policy premiums are "down" in Mass, and tht the cost to taxpayers is running about 1% of budget.

    ReplyDelete
  85. My first reaction also w/r/t Wiki; however, you'll notice they are referencing the Boston Globe (hardly a conservative rag) for much of the article.

    The fact is Rufus you will keep looking until you find something that supports you.


    .

    ReplyDelete
  86. I went as far back as to "Older Post" to fnd your referenced article but was unable to find it for the "real" numbers.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Oh, hell, Q, the rticle I linked was trying to paint a "positive" picture, I'm sure. Just like "Cto" nd the boyz paint a negtive picture.

    The fct is, the H/C bill is a pretty lrge entitlement, and will likely cost us about $150 to $200 Billion/yr. The thing is, I think it's money well-spent, and many here, don't. They won't change my mind, and I won't change theirs.

    ReplyDelete
  88. With regard to the "old man" "young man" questions, you are reading it as a comparison when in reality it is intended to reflect a range of numbers being provided by DHCFP.


    .

    ReplyDelete
  89. The FDIC is a so-called tax on banking.

    In fact, it is a tax on bank depositors and borrowers and when insufficient, a tax on you know who.

    The FDIC allows near-insolvent banks to take deposits ( borrowing from the public) at interests rates that do not reflect the impaired condition of the bank. That is bad enough.

    Allowing real estate speculators (Emigrant Bank of New York, Tarp recipient) and gambling institutions ( Goldman) to be able to take deposits at below market rates and insured by the FDIC, to further speculate and gamble is, and I use the economic term, "total bullshit".

    ReplyDelete
  90. My objection Rufus is that you throw out the 40% reduction in MA(no matter how that number is developed or its significance) with the implication that it somehow affects the national debate when in fact one of the big objections to the national plan is that it actually drives up individual rates as an offset to the handouts to the unions on the employee supplied plans.


    .

    ReplyDelete
  91. Q, please, the "National Debate" is over. The Bill passed. It's law. Most people were tired of hearing about it, anyway.

    This ain't the NY Times; it's the "Elephant Bar" blog.

    ReplyDelete
  92. If Obama is asking for blacks and Hispanics to get out to vote and by implication out-vote the white voters, is that racist?

    ReplyDelete
  93. Is asking people to "get out and Vote" Racist? Is that the question?

    ReplyDelete
  94. If I post an appeal for white voters to support their interests, am I a racist?

    Is there one standard for whites and one for blacks?

    Is that racist?

    Obama has posted a video on his web site appealing for black and Hispanic voter turnout.
    Is Obama a racist.

    By implication Obama is saying that blacks and Hispanics have different interests. That will not get mentioned in the press.

    The press lambastes the Tea partiers for calling for a turnout of their people as racist.

    ReplyDelete
  95. Watch the video and you tell me.

    ReplyDelete
  96. He is not asking for the American people to get out and vote.

    ReplyDelete
  97. He is asking for his people to get out and vote. To him, they are not one and the same.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Let me point out that it is not me but you who keep trailing back to the subject.


    .

    ReplyDelete
  99. The subject is not trailing.

    The President of the United States is leading it.

    Obama has his own web site decicated to it.

    The sudden rush to legalize illegals is coming from Harry Reid trying to save his job and for Obama to continue his transfer of wealth from one class of American to his choice of class of American.

    Are the new rules that I am not supposed to notice and perhaps out of politeness ignore the obvious?

    ReplyDelete
  100. I was responding to this from Doug.

    ...I know, we'll save that much via Obamacare.

    Like Maasiechutsee.

    Mon Apr 26, 09:36:00 AM EDT

    ReplyDelete
  101. He's a Dem, Deuce. The "Poor" are his constituency (supposedly, anyway.)

    Hell, Dubya went gangbusters after the Hispanic vote. Showing off his "Spanish," and shit. Was THAT Racist?

    Or was it, "Getting out the Vote?"

    ReplyDelete
  102. Funny, last night I listened to an interview with Ed Koch.

    He was convinced not to notice that Obama kept some friends that would not on the surface appear to be friendly to Israel, but supported and promoted Obama to fellow Jews who voted 78% for Obama.

    Ed is having second thoughts about Obama.

    Every criticism about those opposed to an amnesty program for foreign lawbreakers of US law boil down to calling someone a racist.

    The US President is making a racial appeal for voters to overwhelm the polls.

    I think that is worthy of discussion.

    ReplyDelete
  103. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  104. tax...insurance -- is there really much difference? Still, it seems a good idea to insure your bank deposits against default by the deposit taking institution and make that deposit taking institution pay into the insurance fund. If there was ever an institution that deserved to be bailed out it would the FDIC given its role in insuring, to a relatively low amount, individuals deposits.

    I fully agree that an FDIC insured deposit should not be taken to the casino by the deposit taking institution. Regulation should address this issue. The banks will howl bloody murder and do everything in their power to stop such a regulation though.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Sorry, Deuce.

    I should have made my post more clear.

    I was not referring to your post but to Rufus' above.

    I agree with Rufus last comment on the HC debate. In fact, I have made the same comment to him on a couple of occasions since healthcare reform passed.

    I am sick of the subject.

    It was not me who brought up the subject today but Rufus.

    As long as he intends to keep throwing out irrelevant factoids on the subject, it is likely I will respond.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  106. Tht's basically wht the Levin/Merkly (sp?) amendment does.

    ReplyDelete
  107. NO, Q, I didn't bring it up. Clean off your glasses. It ws Doug that brought it up.

    ...I know, we'll save that much via Obamacare.

    Like Maasiechutsee.

    Mon Apr 26, 09:36:00 AM EDT

    Mon Apr 26, 01:51:00 PM EDT

    ReplyDelete
  108. Sorry Rufus.

    Didn't see your last post and didn't know what Maasiechutsee meant or that Doug suffered from reverse dyslexia.

    Better call Trish in to help the guy.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  109. That nasty oil accident in the Gulf could be unhelpful to the DRILL BABY DRILL crowd:

    "What appeared to a manageable spill a couple of days ago after an oil rig exploded and sank off the Louisiana coast Tuesday, has now turned into a more serious environmental problem. The new leak was discovered Saturday, and as much as 1,000 barrels – or 42,000 gallons – of oil is leaking each day, Coast Guard Rear Adm. Mary Landry said. "

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/robot-sub-used-to-plug-oil-leak-in-gulf-of-mexico/article1546226/

    ReplyDelete
  110. Ash said...
    That nasty oil accident in the Gulf could be unhelpful to the DRILL BABY DRILL crowd:


    I hate to pick on what you say Ash but let's put this in perspective.

    50,000 gallons is the size of a suburban swimming pool 25' x 50' with an average depth of five feet.

    The oil rig is 50 miles off shore.

    Oil is a natural product. Everywhere on the planet where this natural product of nature exists, it leaks. That is how oil was found. You looked for the leaks.

    ReplyDelete
  111. Sure it's natural. So is arsenic. In any case they seem mighty concerned with 1000 barrels a day getting pumped into the sea and yes it is 50 miles offshore yet there is some worry that the 2 billion gulf coast fishery could be threatened. I hope not. Hopefully it won't take months to stop the leak.

    ReplyDelete
  112. The press is hysterical, because they don't not know better and are stupid, lazy or they are cynical and just want to sell papers that no one wants to buy.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Natural Chemistry makes a great enzyme that would eat that right up.

    ReplyDelete
  114. press is hysterical, people get hysterical DRILL BABY DRILL is political which is...

    ReplyDelete
  115. If you want to eat; grow food.

    If you want to burn oil, you have to drill oil.

    What is the problem?

    ReplyDelete
  116. The problem is drilling for oil in difficult to reach environmentally sensitive areas.

    ReplyDelete
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