“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."
Monday, April 16, 2007
Massacre at Virginia Tech: 32 Confirmed Dead
A gunman kills at least 32 people and injures 21 more at a university campus in Virginia, in the worst shooting in US history. How do we stop this?
Clearly, if someone had a weapon at the right place in the right time, it would have ended it.
It sounds like there were at least some armed guards on the campus for the first shooting, and maybe police were there for the second set of shooting. One student reported they were in lockdown, and the second shooting happened after they ended the lockdown. One report was that the killer had a vest too. It was probably a needle in a haystack problem, with a single killer on a large campus.
Officials are confident there was one gunman and that the shootings were not part of a larger plot, CBS News reports. FBI spokesman Richard Kolko in Washington said there was no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack, "but all avenues will be explored."
Wish I could find the article, but a few days ago I was reading about London, in some of the immigrant areas. London is about as locked down as you can get, but , surprise, surprise, the immigrant gangs have guns, and knives. The only ones that do. This British article went on in the vein, what to do, what to do.
The FBI and the ATF believe the gunman, described as a young Asian male, used two handguns in the shootings before taking his own life, sources tell CBS News. One official added that the gunman was "heavily armed and wearing a vest."
Investigators are trying to confirm if the gunman was looking for his girlfriend, CBS News reports.
Misjudged threats, leading to even more innocent deaths.
The Police responded and killed the shooter, they say on FOX, but do not seem 100% sure. Perhaps a suicide, instead. Just as the police responded in the mall shootings in Salt Lake City.
Jr was surprised when a police Lt told him that he'd go to jail if he beat the crapola out of an illegal alien.
He still is bummed out by the Haditha prosecutions and that the Marines in Afghanistan are being investigated for homicide, when all they did, in his mind, was bust an ambush.
Border Patrolmen are prosecuted for striking irregular border infiltrators, after they throw rocks at the Patrolmen.
Why risk putting a militarily trained shooter in a civilian peacekeeping situation. Seems likely they'd over react, just like in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Then the veteran would be prosecuted, the evil doer given immunity to testify. As occurred already, with uniformed Border Patrolmen.
Rock and a hard place...I think 2164 is on the money with trained vets who are taking up their new life and studies being armed.
But Desert Rat also makes sense when he points out that in light of border patrol prosecutions (for doing their jobs) and U.S. Marines in a real bind for doing a raid in hostile country things are pretty fucked up.
Fact is more civilians always get killed in wars. So far the Iraq campaign has been antiseptic in it's ferocity from the US side. In my opinion a BIG mistake.
On a college campus if someone is shooting and they're not the police,FBI etc then the ex-GI's are a natural for returning fire, at least covering fire until the police arrive.
If one armed ex -GI had been in the vacinity then there's a good chance the perp would have had a threat to deal with instead of turning the campus into a slaughter house. They could be deputized, no problem. Collegiate hall monitors, like sky marshalls.
As far as second guessing and lawsuits ... you'll never see the end of those anyway so you can't let them be a deterrent. The juries will just have to bone up on jury nullification and decide the case on a "prudent man" basis...would a prudent man have returned fire in the face of mass killing? Hell yeah!
SKY NEWS: Witnesses said he was heavily armed and entered the college looking for his girlfriend... He reportedly lined up students and opened fire at them. He was said to be an Asian, in his mid-20s...
Troops flee from border outpost By Jerry Seper THE WASHINGTON TIMES January 6, 2007
Armed men overran a National Guard observation post along the U.S.-Mexico border in Arizona this week, forcing the soldiers to retreat and prompting an investigation by the U.S. Border Patrol that has focused on the intruders' identity.
No shots were exchanged and no one was injured in the incident, which occurred shortly after 11 p.m. on Wednesday. The National Guard troops were members of an entry-identification team, assigned to monitor major illegal-alien and drug-smuggling corridors.
After forcing the soldiers to flee, the unidentified men retreated into Mexico.
National Guard Sgt. Edward Balaban said the troops did not know how many men were involved in the attack "because obviously it took place in the dark." He said National Guard officials are investigating the incident and will determine shortly whether to change any procedures for troops at the border.
The Border Patrol probe has focused on determining who the armed men were, what they were doing and why they approached the observation post, which is located near Sasabe, Ariz., in one of this country's major alien and drug-smuggling corridors. The outpost sits on a hillside overlooking the border and is covered by a tent and camouflage netting.
Several Border Patrol agents in the area told The Washington Times yesterday the armed men might have been trying to find out what the Guard troops would do if they were confronted by drug or alien smugglers. They said the increased presence of troops and additional Border Patrol agents in recent months had frustrated many of the area's drug and alien smugglers.
"I guess they got their answer," said one veteran agent. "When in doubt, the troops will run."
Earlier this year, several Border Patrol agents said they had been assigned to guard National Guard personnel, given standing orders to be within five minutes of the troops deployed along the border. The agents, who referred to the assignment as "the nanny patrol," said most of the Guard troops are not allowed to carry loaded weapons, despite a significant increase in violence directed at Border Patrol agents during the past year.
Border Patrol Chief David V. Aguilar disputed the assertions, saying only that "a small percentage" of his agents were working as "force protection" for the Guard members.
If active duty National Guardsmen, on patrol are in this situation, the idea of arming college campuses with veterans would seem to be asking al lot:
National Guard troops taking part in Operation Jump Start are not empowered to get involved in law-enforcement duties. They cannot detain, arrest or interdict anyone or anything coming across the border -- only report them to the Border Patrol.
CNSNews.com) - Gun-toting members of the Mexican military are crossing regularly into U.S. territory, where they are partnering with drug cartels and criminal gangs to protect sophisticated smuggling operations, according to Texas sheriffs and lawmakers.
Some of the Mexican infiltrators are suspected to have been trained by the U.S. military.
U.S. Border Patrol agents and local law enforcement officials operating along the southwestern border have come under attack from the Mexican side in recent months, with automatic gunfire frequently erupting, Rep. John Culberson (R-Texas) told Cybercast News Service.
Mexican military units and drug cartels have access to weaponry and communications equipment far more advanced than resources made available to U.S. officials on the state and federal level, Culberson said.
"The U.S. Border Patrol is telling its agents to just lay low and report on what they see," he said. "They are instructed to determine the size of the [Mexican military] unit, the number of personnel, the direction of travel."
The U.S. ambassador to Mexico has sent diplomatic notes to the Mexican government complaining about incursions into U.S. territory by "individuals dressed in military uniforms," according to a congressional report.
Culberson plans to meet with the Mexican ambassador to discuss border issues early in the new year.
More than 200 incursions by the Mexican military of the U.S. southern border have been documented since the late 1990s, Rep. Ted Poe (R-Texas) said in an interview.
"Our federal government denied it occurred until the Texas sheriffs took photos," he said. "There is no nation in the world that would allow this invasion to occur except for the United States."
I would have no problem with giving ex-GI's going to school on the GI bill, an extra grand a month, to carry.
One problem with that suggestion is that the vast majority of "ex-GIs" have very little experience with firearms, especially side-arms. I'd venture a guess, based purely on anecdotal evidence, that the majority of folks taking advantage of the GI bill are from support areas that fire a weapon during Basic Training and then maybe once a year after that, if that often. They're no more qualified than anyone else. And as others have stated, the military doesn't do so well in matters of "keeping the peace" - they aren't trained for it.
No, it would be much better to simply allow ALL students the right to carry a firearm on campus. Concealed carry permits are nice, but shouldn't be neccessary. I don't remember reading anywhere in the Constitution or Bill of Rights about the right to keep and bear arms only if you have the right paperwork.
How do you spell "Tone Deaf?" --- ""The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed," spokeswoman Dana Perino said "
"Mexican officials gave the excuse that it was a new military unit that got lost and didn't know it was in the U.S.," he said. "But I find this hard to believe."
'Trained in the US'
Some of the Mexican soldiers collaborating with drug cartels were trained at one time at the School of the Americas in Fort Benning, Ga., said Sheriff Rick Flores of Webb County.
Although they were trained to combat "narco-terrorism" many such soldiers are ultimately lured by the fact they can make substantially more money working with the cartels, Flores said in an interview.
"We train people to fight bad elements and help restore order but they end up defecting," he said. "Then we end up fighting them after we train them."
MS-13, we trained the fathers, at the School of the Americas, when it was at Fort Gulick, Canal Zone. No doubt we trained some of those Mexicans in Georgia, as well.
How about them Iraqi, will they prove more loyal to US than Mexicans and Salvadorans?
Rem, i hear what you say. two thoughts: i like the maturity of an ex GI and I also like the motivation of him or her going to college afterwards....I am suuuuuure, the firing range at the local military base will be more than happy to qualify an ex that steps up for the duty.
Aquarium, by the way welcome, and if you are so inclined you may take shots at me like some of the other elephanteers. I look forward to your contributions.
So you'd Federalize security at all the colleges in the US, duece?
Training not at local or State police sites but at Federal installations. Paid by the Federals, of course, reporting for refresher traiining through the National Guard, perhaps, or a new Security Branch entirely?
Moktada al-Sadr’s followers said that they were withdrawing because the government had refused to set a timetable for pulling American troops out of Iraq. The Lede: Why Now?
DR, I would not federalize them, but encourage them to exercise their second amendment rights. I would simply clarify the federal law that would allow, train and pay. They would not be marshalls but mature trained citizens with a side arm.
I just had another thought - the first "incident" took place in a dorm. It's probably fair to say that the vast majority of residents in said dorm were under the age of 21. Even if Deuce's plan of arming veterans were implemented, it is doubtful they'd be in/near the dorms.
Much like the legal drinking age, the age for handgun ownership should be dropped to 18, or scrapped all together.
Seems that with that payment they'd recieve added authority and responsibility, more so than an average Joe.
In AZ we have a "Conceal Carry" system, but it is unconstitutional. The State Constitution forbids regulation of firearms, at all. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the State shall not be impaired A Conceal Carry permit is an impairment of that Right. We have never had a concealed weapons charge go to Court, in AZ. It is a unenforceable Law that the State will not allow to be challenged, but keeps on the books, to harass those that need harassing.
"The US is doing fine the way it is, internally." --- Agreed: Police have swat teams and etc. All we would need to eliminate 90% of crimes would be to have Mayors like Rudy enforce laws already on the books. If Illegals and repeat offenders were not on the street, most crime would be gone.
Why do you believe that just because a person is ex GI that they are sufficiently stable to roam campuses armed? Given the prevalence of PTSD and the penchant many have for alcohol that they would be a reliable armed campus security force.
I have to believe that if more Americans had concealed carry permits, there would be less of this, especially teachers in schools. 2164
Truer words were never spoken. Numerous studies have shown that when criminals are in an area they know the citizens can carry concealed weapons crime goes down.
> I have to believe that if more Americans had concealed carry permits, there would be less of this, especially teachers in schools.
I think this is the approach that would work. While I respect the idea of veterans patrolling the campuses, it would take too many, and most universities and other building go 50 or 100 or more years between shootings. It would be the most boring guard duty in history. But the teachers are already there, already have business, and there is one in each room.
There is a price to pay for the coarsening of society. Anarchy is increasing.
I don't expect the government to protect me. I tell my girls to maintain situational awareness AT ALL TIMES and teach them to combat shoot. They will need these skills during their lifetime.
We are headed for a new Dark Age this century. Better to get used to these tragedies.
> There is a price to pay for the coarsening of society. Anarchy is increasing.
That's the thing. This is pure evil, what ancient people called a demon. The facts are still coming in, but it sounds like this thing impersonating a human chained the doors to buildings shut so people couldn't get out, then went from classroom to classroom killing everyone.
Ash, it's like this with me. If a vet has an honorable discharge and is going to college, and is normal by current standards, I believe he is as good a risk as anyone else plus.
It is one thing to shoot at someone and it is quite another to be shot at. I would be willing to bet that it would not stop all of this type of thing. But it is similar to armed marshals on a plane. The slaughter would be reduced.
A couple of weeks ago , over at Observanda, Tiger recalled taking his rifle to high school, via the school bus, for a school gun club. i did the same thing. After I was thirteen, I cannot recall a friend that did not own, use clean and respect a gun.
You may have more ideas on societal disfunction than I do. (not by experience, I am sure.) My suggestion is not the answer but part of it. Unfortunately for all of us, society has opened an artery of depravity and band aids will not fix it.
“None of us thought it could have been gunshots,” a student who identified himself as Trey Perkins told MSNBC’s Chris Jansing in a telephone interview. “... I’m not sure how long it lasted. It seemed like a really long time.”
Perkins said the gunman never said a word. “He didn’t say, ‘Get down.’ He didn’t say anything.” He just started shooting.”
The gunman left that classroom and then tried to return, but students kept him out by bracing the door closed with their feet. “He started to try to come in again and started shooting through the door,” Perkins said, but hit no one.
lugh lampfhota said... "I don't expect the government to protect me."
On the mark; stated before -
...it's the typical Western mindset,coddled into believing that all of their protection, all their needs can be met by the state. This has made the west particularly vulnerable to actors who operate within the targets population and attack the weak underbelly of society.
The police, the FBI, the Army will never be able to respond to terrorist planning and events in time to do something other than sift through the wreckage. It’s a battle that will have to be won by civilian citizens (the wisdom of the 2nd amendment). Until that mindset becomes prevalent, we’re all going to have to take our lumps as they come. Sun Mar 25, 03:04:00 PM EDT
- and don't think the enemy is not watching, learning...
Malvo, Beslan, & this...
If a single individual with handguns can do so much damage; how much more could trained paramilitary individuals (say n=10) with assault rifles?
I agree there is much depravity in society and it is just for this reason that I'm not convinced that more people carrying more guns would change things for the better. Having a bunch of kids running about campus carrying concealed weapons strikes me as a recipe for all kinds of GSW's. Kids aren't particularly rational especially when angered and/or drunk. Having every teacher pack a gun in their desk may be a little more reasonable but that is still putting a lot of weapons in easy reach of many. Most shootings aren't preplanned but rather acts of anger and 'arming up' simply because of very rare incidents like todays could lead to a society much like Iraq's were the weapon of choice is an AK47 and most every family has at least one - for protection I might add.
All of my friends had guns in our trucks, in high school.
Open carry, has always been approved of, here. Strap it on your hip, let the world know. It's only fair, to give the bad guy a chance at being deterred.
The openly carried weapon is a deterence, a concealed weapon is not. In most cases, I'd venture to guess, from experience.
One neighbor carries an M4 in his trunk, but if you did not know he was FBI or had the weapon, the M4s lack of presence would not stop a crime, by deterence.
Another, a cowboy, carries a 12 gauge in his truck gun rack, for all the world to see, people do not cut him off in traffic.
"An Army lieutenant during World War II, he showed everyone how to combat racism." --- Reminds me: They say Don Ho was Jet-Rated and flew C-97s for several years for Air Force.
This is the crux of the situation in todays world. We use to be able to amble about, rather carefree, but the world, as all things do, has changed. Any place now where people congregate is a potential target. Many years ago (29) a friend and I were working on a screenplay that involved plane hijackers flying a fully fueled DC-10 into a football stadium at a parallel angle to the stadium to wipe out one side of the stadium with the debris field and inferno..we never finished the screenplay. But it is too easy. Hijack a Learjet and you could kill 30-40 thousand easy. Hit the grandstands at Daytona, not straight on but parallel to them and you's kill 60-70 thousand.
In many ways the terrorists are winninng. They, Iran,Syria, and probably Pakistan need to be dealt with. This Islamic terrorism is showing the way for other groups with psycho leaders ...Hugo comes to mind.
Whether our targets are incontrovertably guilty or not is beginning to matter less and less. Sufficeient intelligence on terrorist aid should become the bars new height.
Todays massacre might not be germane to what I have said, but what I've said is very germane to today's world.
elijah, something similar to your scenario occurred in LA, 1997.
This is what you'd get, in a major city, over 200 police responding. The shooters killed, another dozen or so wounded. If society is lucky.
LOS ANGELES (CNN) -- A blaze of automatic gunfire ripped through a crowded neighborhood after several heavily-armed gunmen dressed like commandos botched a bank robbery.
Two suspects were killed, and 15 people were injured, including 10 policemen. None of the injuries incurred during the hour-long shootout was "life threatening," Los Angeles Police Chief Willie Williams said.
Initially out-gunned, police responded to a scene in North Hollywood that resembled a combat zone. Bullets were flying from all directions into cars and buildings -- and bystanders, too.
More than 200 police were on hand for the siege, which lasted more than an hour. Armored personnel carriers and dozens of police cars, fire engines and ambulances were called to subdue the attackers and attend to the wounded.
Wearing body armor and carrying a trunk full of weapons, the robbers were ready for a fight. And that's exactly what they delivered, firing "multiple hundreds" of rounds, according to police.
They fired armor-piercing bullets at anything that moved, and one suspect used a getaway car as a shield. Two suspects fought fiercely to the death, killed by helmeted police who fired bullets to the head at close range.
Police search neighborhood for suspects Police Cmdr. Tim McBride said he'd seen nothing like it since the Symbionese Liberation Army opened fire on LAPD officers in 1974, three months after members kidnapped newspaper heiress Patty Hearst.
Nine elementary schools in the area were shut down. And residents of the middle-class neighborhood northwest of downtown Los Angeles were advised to stay in their homes or call 911 if they had to leave.
The shootout occurred not far from the Disney, Universal and Warner Bros. studios, and the busy Hollywood Freeway was closed in both directions, tying up mid-day traffic.
The brazen attack was covered by police helicopters hovering above the scene, some drawing fire from the suspects. During the battle, one robber calmly tossed an empty assault weapon into the trunk and picked up another, as if he were changing flashlight batteries.
"They had black masks over their faces and full black gear, with belts and ammo around their waists," said Bob McKibben, an appliance store manager who watched the battle. "These guys were ready for war."
"It was like the OK Corral," said witness Nancy Swanson.
Police borrow guns, ammo from a gun shop Officers who initially responded to Friday's robbery, carrying standard-issue 9 millimeter Baretta handguns, were in trouble.
"Tactically, the first officers that arrived were at a severe disadvantage," weapons expert and former LAPD officer Dave Butler said. "Police carry 15 rounds. They would need to re-load."
Stunned officers were out-gunned to such a degree that at one point they burst into a gun store, and walked out with more powerful guns and ammunition.
Police "came in a panic because their weapons weren't good enough to fight these people," said the store's president, who would identify himself only as Bob.
"These people had body armor and they needed something that would break body armor," he said. "We supplied them with slugs that would at least break bones on someone wearing body armor."
Added the LAPD's McBride: "We have many suspects who have multiple guns, and they continue to out-gun us and fire at us at will."
I understand the point you are trying to make, but this is rather disingenuous: Another, a cowboy, carries a 12 gauge in his truck gun rack, for all the world to see, people do not cut him off in traffic.
Visit the South during hunting season and notice how many rifles and shotguns you see in the back windows of pick-ups. While the presence there may deter a carjacking, traffic pays it no mind - its too common a sight.
Here's how I look at it - if I were the "bad guy" and I was approaching a group of "good guys", the ones openly carrying a weapon would be my first targets. With a "concealed weapon", an individual can maintain a level of "surprise" should the need for it arise.
How many would the psycho have killed if other students in the room were armed, 10? It's true that the psycho would have been stopped sooner, but he also would have carried his weapons into the room with no one suspecting, that was his right, and unlike the other students in the room, the killer would know he was going to shoot. The killer, in the back of the room, could put on a vest (like he did) and start firing from a concealed position.
I believe in the right to bear arms, but it would only be a partial help. One of the biggest murders of this type was in an area from Texas where lots of citizens were armed. In fact that was part of the defense against the killer, who was in a tower, armed citizens joining the police in shooting back. But the killer already quietly took some victims on the way up to the tower, he killed more before people returned fire, and then the killer used the concealment of the tower to continue firing for some time before police killed him.
So I support the second amendment but don't see it as preventing most of the killing in mass murders of this type.
This is also one of the most bizarre cases. The guy had a brain tumor, and seemed to suspect it. He wrote notes about what he was going to do, that he couldn't stop himself, and asked for an autopsy after he died and for his body to be donated to science to try and prevent others from doing the same thing. After doing all that, he went out and did the killings.
One solution not explored yet. All campuses should have a total NUDE policy. No rucksacks etc, just nude students. Anyone wearing clothes would be arrested. I believe this policy would also help address the obeseity pandemic.
Sure, rem, if they are coming for a predetermined fight.
But if you're in the 7-11 when two or three hooligans barge in, for a smash & grab, a side arm on the clerk or another customer may well be deterence enough to send them out of the store, no harm, no foul ...
Two "good old boys" do not tend to shoot it out, though one cop friend said a signifigent problem was minor auto accidents that escalate, when one or the other of the drivers is armed.
The greeks new something about running a gynasium, Habu. You may be on to something there. Just extend the policy across campus. Might work in Iraq too. But I quess it is not a day to make light.
The authorities haven't released the facts yet, but one story going around is that the killer just had two small caliber handguns, 9 mm and / or .22 caliber. If that's true, then he could have been disarmed even though the other students didn't have guns.
This would explain a story that the killer tried to come back to a classroom where he had killed before, but the students blocked the door with their bodies. The killer tried shooting through the door but didn't kill anyone else.
About 56 people were wounded, some critically, and 15 were taken to five hospitals. The injuries included gun wounds, but also broken bones and sprains sustained by students who jumped from windows to escape the attacker.
But within seconds the source of the sound became clear, when a gunman entered the lecture hall and shot the professor before turning his guns on students.
“He didn’t say a single word the whole time,” said Perkins. “He didn’t say get down, he didn’t say anything. He just came in and started shooting.”
Perkins and his classmates instinctively fell to the ground, turning over desks to create barriers between themselves and the shooter, who seemed to be firing randomly.
“He started shooting around,” Perkins recalls. “I’m not sure how long it lasted. It felt like a really long time, but was probably only a minute or so.”
Perkins said the most striking thing about the shooter was his stoic demeanor.
“He looked like, I guess you could say, serious," he told MSNBC TV hours after the incident. "He didn’t look frightened at all, he didn’t look angry. Just a straight face.”
... When the gunman finally left, Perkins and two other students, one of them bleeding from a wound to the arm, tried to brace the door closed to prevent his return.
“He started to try to open the door again, and then tried to shoot through the door, four, five, maybe six shots,” remembers Perkins. “Fortunately none of those shots hit anyone.”
As he and the other students still standing scrambled to help the injured, they could hear shooting elsewhere in the building.
Investigators told NBC News that they had been unable to positively identify the gunman, who died after he shot himself in the face. He carried no ID or cell phone, and an initial check on his fingerprints came up empty.
Witnesses described him as a man in his 20s, wearing a maroon cap and a black leather jacket. A spokesman for the FBI in Washington said there was no immediate evidence to suggest that the incident was a terrorist attack, “but all avenues will be explored.”
Trey Perkins, who was sitting in room 207 in Norris Hall, said the gunman barged into the room at about 9:50 a.m. and opened fire for about a minute and a half. "Some 30 shots in all," said Perkins, who was seated in the back of the room.
It was a German class, Perkins said, and there were about 15 students in the room. The gunman, who was holding two pistols, Perkins said, first shot the professor in the head and kept on shooting at the students. Perkins said the student was of Asian descent, "around 19," and had "very serious but very calm look on his face."
"Everyone hit the floor at that moment," said Perkins, 20, of Yorktown, Va., a sophomore studying mechanical engineering, who sounded shaken on the phone. "And the shots seemed like it lasted forever."
I understand. I have no children, and as you know if I did they would be using some type of covert operation.
I heard the perp used a 9mm, and it disfigured his face so badly they can't scotch tape it back together? A .45ACP I can understand but a 9mm. Even a shot under the chin or in the mouth has me questioning the damage. I've seen both types of wounds. Now a 7.62 can turn your head into a canoe.
When the generals march in Westhawk Here is a prediction: By the summer of 2009, we will see a record number of retired or active duty generals and admirals serving in top level policy positions in the U.S. government. This will occur regardless of whether the Democratic or Republican candidate wins the presidency. And the base supporters of neither party will be happy with this outcome.This morning, General John Sheehan, USMC (ret), explained in greater detail why he refused the offer to be the Bush administration’s “war czar”:
The police could also have a good reason for temporarily holding information back. There still may be some concern about two shooters, since the killings were separated. They may be bringing in the killer's parents for questioning, before word leaks out to them (like if they said the killer's name). Also, the authorities haven't confirmed the report of small caliber weapons only. Another report says he was "heavily armed" which wouldn't seem to fit two handguns, unless it was because he was carrying ammunition. It's possible that the student lived hundreds of miles away from campus, I mean his parent's home, and they might want to search it first before revealing his name.
When I went to college, decades ago, no one took my fingerprints. So if I had been shot in the face & killed, and wasn't carrying identification, they would have had a tough time figuring out who I was. Even if they saw my ugly face, if I had been shot elsewhere, I don't see how they wouldn't have known my name, one of tens of thousands of young males on campus.
> Some were lined up and executed...sounds like a cool calculated professional job.
I didn't see that part, lined up and executed. If the killer was really using a 9 mm, it doesn't sound professional to me. That's not a weapon of terror, and the killer had a chance of having it taken from him.
This also is not AQ's style. They go for dramatic attacks like damaging a ship or knocking down the world trade center, not a single terrorist shooting a few dozen students with two small handguns.
Doug, Great link and a good explanation by the general which gives Desert Rat's assessments real gravitas.
Some leaders just lose self confidence, some turn to the power of prayer to solve real time Earthly problems. It makes me wonder if W has developed a passion for the Rose Garden tranquility that Jimmy Carter sought during the hostage crisis. I can see a case for definite parallels. Unless....
Unless W is so poker faced as to be preparing the mother of all air assaults on Iran. I guess here in the peanut gallery we'll all just have to keep watching and guessing.
Any more than Mr Nichols training trips to the Philippines made the cut of the American publics' "needs to know".
Prior to his travels he and McVeigh could not get their stump thumpers to detonate. Try as the might. After a few trips to Cebu City, no problem.
Cebu City at the time was a reputed base for several militant organizations, including Liberation Army of the Philippines, the Communist Huk, and the Al-Qaida affiliate Abu Sayyaf. Stephen Jones, the trial attorney who first represented Tim McVeigh, cited evidence of a meeting in Davao City, in Mindanao in 1992 or 1993, when Yousef members, Abdul Hakim Murad, Wali Khan Amin Shah and a "farmer" met to discuss the Oklahoma bombing. Jones said the FBI was aware of the meeting.
And there was no third man, renting that Ryder truck, they now say.
The gunman at Norris Hall, who police say took his own life, was not carrying identification and has not been identified.
Freshman Erin Sheehan told the university newspaper she was in German class at Norris when the gunman peeked in twice "like he was looking for someone" and then started shooting.
The students tried to blockade the door, but the shooter -- dressed in "a Boy Scout-type outfit" -- made it inside.
"I saw bullets hit people's body," Sheehan told The Collegiate Times. "There was blood everywhere. People in the class were passed out -- I don't know maybe from shock from the pain. But I was one of only four that made it out of that classroom." The remaining students, about 20 of them, were dead or injured, she told the newspaper.
From the VT web site: What to Do When Violence Occurs
* Do not physically touch an outraged person, or try to force them to leave.
*Calmly ask the person to place any weapons in a neutral location while you continue to talk to them.
* Never attempt to disarm or accept a weapon from the person in question. Weapon retrieval should only be done by a police officer.
It should read "In case of violence, eliminate the threat to you and others around you with every means at your disposal."
The fact is, the Virginia legislature killed a bill (HB1572) in 2006 that would have allowed CCW on college campuses.
This country MUST get over the pathology that Big Mother Government will wish all of the bad people away and that you are not responsible for your own safety.
If I was al-Q and Hizb'allah, I just took some great notes and saw how easily I could have four trained guys slaughter several hundred people with impunity.
The sheep have been trained to freeze at the first sign of trouble and be slaughtered while waiting for Dudley Dooright and F-Troop to show up and mop up the carnage.
The passengers of Flight 93 hand their blinders removed just in enough time to foil their killers' plans, but it took the deaths of 3000 others for the zeitgeist to take root.
It is high time we stopped listening to those that think it more civilized to allow your wife and daughters to be raped and killed than to resist and fight back.
The culture of modern left / liberalism is the culture of death and defeat. It must be annihilated if the West is to survive.
If you carry, take a class this weekend to dial yourself in. Take force-on-force training. If you can find a school that teaches active shooter response, DO IT.
As the old gunshow bumpersticker says, "FIGHT CRIME. SHOOT BACK."
Herr Wu Wei, The fatwah issued from Qom last year allow Muslims to kill Americans anytime, anyplace. This could have been a AQ sympathizer or just a nut case.
The only point I'm making is that executing them in a systematic manner is driven by something other than Sun Ming turned him down for the Spring prom....we'll find out ..you points are very valid. Just too bad we're in the dark on the shooter and I just personally don't buy the fact that they haven't located a trail to follow by now..even if he took a bus or cab to the campus. Somebody somewhere had contact with the perp and Blacksburg ain't that big.
> The fatwah issued from Qom last year allow Muslims to kill Americans anytime, anyplace
I didn't mean to seem too negative. The report of the killer's serious face, his not saying a word, and picking victims at random and by the dozen, make him seem insane to me.
Police say they will release the name in a couple of hours. When asked if it was a student, they said "something like that".
According to this report, bullets could not penetrate a wooden door!
One report was that the killer was wearing something like a boy scout uniform (a psycho boy scout?), but most reports are like this one, a leather jacket.
Sophomore Derek O’Dell, who was shot in the arm during the second attack, described the gunman. “He was male, Asian descent and he was about six feet tall wearing a black leather coat and a maroon hat,” he told CBS Evening News anchor Katie Couric. "And he didn't say anything, which I found very unusual. He just started shooting people and it was truly tragic.”
O’Dell said he hid under a desk when the gunman started shooting. “I had not even realized I had been shot until I got up and saw the blood on my arm. But with the two people who hadn't been shot, with their help, we helped to barricade the door to prevent him from coming back in. ... Then he had come back after firing shots in other classrooms and he proceeded to shoot the door, which was wooden, so bullets were hitting the door and almost coming through door.” The barricade worked, however, and the gunman did not reenter the classroom, O’Dell said.
Investigators offered no motive for the attack, reports CBS News correspondent Bob Orr. Police have been working on identifying the suspect and say they expect to release the name in the coming hours. When asked if the gunman was a student, police say “something like that,” indicating that perhaps he was a teaching assistant, reports Orr.
yaaa, I can just see it now, all dem gang bangers in da city organizing force on force training and armin' up with all the best weaponry...or is it only good guys that actually carry guns?
Since he's a male I guess we know his Johnson is no longer on the prowl. That's good news.
They should know by now if he was circum -ooh -ouch, you know, Little Red Roostered. If he wasn't I can keep on my desparate attempt to AQ him. Soon we'll find he was a member of the South Moluccan
Royal Dutch Marines vs. South Moluccan Terrorists, 1977
One bright May morning in 1977, the children of Bovendsmilde were settling down for their lessons when four South Moluccan terrorists stormed the school. Armed with submachine guns and grenades, they took 105 children and 4 teachers hostage. A short time later, just outside of town, nine heavily armed South Moluccans boarded a commuter train, taking 60 hostages. After 14 long hours, the terrorists begin issuing their political demands. As negotiations dragged on for an interminable two weeks, the Royal Dutch Marines were taking action. See how the elite counter-terrorism and commando squad used thermal imaging and listening devices to formulate a rescue plan. This double siege is the most famous mission of the Royal Dutch Marines and is still studied by counter-terrorism units worldwide as a textbook example of how to handle a hostage crisis.
Indonesian terrorists..look into it ..lots of Muslims in Indonesia
Either the authorities know more than they are revealing, or they screwed up big time. They say they didn't alarm the campus after the first two killings, because they thought it was a domestic quarrel, and the killer had fled the campus. They must have been pretty confident about the killer's identity to risk everyone else by not warning them.
So if the same killer went to the classrooms and killed more people, they should have known who he was.
According to the press conference just now, everything is up in the air. Police said there is a "person of interest", someone off campus who they are talking to. They said they don't have a motive. They also aren't sure the two shootings were connected to the same gunman.
That there had been a double homicide? It was over, the rounds expended the perp had escaped, but the Person of Interest who had been sought, was being interviewed by police when the second incident began.
It may well be the two incidents are connected, or not. ATF has the weapons and is doing a ballistic check of them, comparing the first incidents' bullets to the two weapons in custody.
The Person of Interest was not detained after the interview, there being no probable cause to arrest him. All from the News Conference with the college cop and President
"If I was al-Q and Hizb'allah, I just took some great notes and saw how easily I could have four trained guys slaughter several hundred people with impunity."
Sequestered in some cell right now is a person having NASA quality undies placed on his head in an attempt to break him down.
Next comes a flesh pile with beer bellied jailers and inmate trustees...a Wesson Press'n as we use to say...then the Tesla-light-up-your-balls machine. We'll find out who was on that grassy knoll, just watch. Personally the Dremel with the wirebrush end up the urethra gets great results.
Get this: H.R. 808: Department of Peace and Nonviolence ActHR 808 IH110th CONGRESS1st SessionH. R. 808To establish a Department of Peace and Nonviolence.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
February 5, 2007
Mr. KUCINICH (for himself, Mr. ABERCROMBIE, Mr. ANDREWS, Ms. BALDWIN, Ms. CORRINE BROWN of Florida, Ms. CARSON, Mr. CLAY, Mr. CONYERS, Mr. CUMMINGS, Mr. DAVIS of Illinois, Mrs. DAVIS of California, Mr. DEFAZIO, Mr. ELLISON, Mr. FARR, Mr. FILNER, Mr. AL GREEN of Texas, Mr. GRIJALVA, Ms. HIRONO, Mr. HOLT...
Campus Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said investigators Monday night had preliminarily identified the gunman, whose name he did not reveal. Investigators told NBC News that they had trouble for several hours identifying the man, who died after he shot himself in the face. He carried no ID, and an initial check on his fingerprints came up empty...
Flinchum said investigators were questioning a man who knew one of the dormitory victims when reports of the second round of shooting came in. He gave few details, but he said the man was cooperating and was not in custody.
Flinchum would not confirm that the two incidents were related, but he referred to only one gunman and said no other suspect was being sought. Numerous federal and local law enforcement officials told NBC News that the events were believed to be the work of a lone gunman...
About 2½ hours later, police responded to a 911 call reporting that shots had been fired at Norris Hall. They discovered that the front doors had been chained, apparently so victims could not escape and police could not enter.
Officers forced their way in and followed the sound of gunshots to the second floor, where they found the gunman, who had shot himself in the face. As they canvassed the building, they found dozens of gunshot victims. Eventually, they announced that 30 were dead in the classroom building.
“It’s probably one of the worst things I’ve seen in my life,” Flinchum said.
A general warning that there are bad people in the World, elijah?
What should the College have done? Send 26,000 people home, back to the dorms? They HAD locked down the dorm building where the first killings took place.
Lock the students in Harris Hall? Isn't that what the shooter did?
There was no indication that mass murder was in the air. None made public, anyway.
What if the shooter had gone off Campus and rampaged, in the event of locking down the college campus. Gone to an Elementry school, instead.
In Phoenix we had a couple of serial killers running wild, last year. Should we have created curfews and road block check points all over town?
We do not even shut down the cell phones in Iraq, let alone take their cars or gasoline subsidies away, nor lock down Baghdad. They lose 50 people a day, day in, day out. For months on end, now.
Cost benefit analysis, maybe the Administrators were wrong, maybe not. If it was a seperate incident, the first not connected to the second. Or connected, but with seperate shooters.
Every murder in the US will require closing the buildings of the institution where it occurred? For how long should they be closed?
What about the anthrax attacks of 2001, do not open your mail, until that perp is caught. Well, I feel better now, you've been warned.
Close down the college, city, business, there's been a shooting. Talk about your nanny state mentality.
Thanks for the great clips from our nukes-for-energy-only Earth neighbors the Iranians. Peace be upon them.
Perhaps we have been too harsh in our judgement of them, but alas I am in Habu's camp on nuking their asses if for no other reason than they have earned a good nuking. Plus it will make my Isfahan rugs skyrocket in value.
"A general warning that there are bad people in the World, elijah?"
The point is that if a person can snap (if this is the case) and cause such chaos;
Then how much more dangerous are peoples and their governments that chant Death to America, Death to Israel, parading Shahab-3 missiles with the same slogans?
Peoples who love death more than life.
Tonight...is it as you have both written; reconciliation or killing at ratios of 1:100?
21 March 2007 @ 06:35 pm 2.14.2007 "I'm glad we're making an effort to patch things up...sticking it out will only make this relationship stronger, right?"
Leave a comment
20 March 2007 @ 05:22 am And so the cycling begins...
Sure is. The US has opted for reconciliation, here to date.
Gotta go with the flow, or be unpatriotic.
Gotta back the Presidents' play:
I also want to speak tonight directly to Muslims throughout the world. We respect your faith. It's practiced freely by many millions of Americans, and by millions more in countries that America counts as friends. Its teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah. (Applause.) The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying, in effect, to hijack Islam itself. The enemy of America is not our many Muslim friends; it is not our many Arab friends. Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them. ... After all that has just passed -- all the lives taken, and all the possibilities and hopes that died with them -- it is natural to wonder if America's future is one of fear. Some speak of an age of terror. I know there are struggles ahead, and dangers to face. But this country will define our times, not be defined by them. As long as the United States of America is determined and strong, this will not be an age of terror; this will be an age of liberty, here and across the world.
We had a chinese guy here pop over 'love'. Graduate student here. Felt some other guy was making his girl. Went to Wal-Mart, bought a Buck knife, cut the guy up, took the knife back to Wal-Mart for the refund money. Guilty, 1st degree murder. Last I heard they had shipped him back to China. Nice touch, that, getting the refund on the knife.
...to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer? Will you love her, honor her, comfort her, and keep her in sickness and in health; forsaking all others, be true to her until death do you part?
I can't feature someone killing the girl and a prof in the morning, and then hanging around for two hours, and then going really, really bezerk. I'd think the guy would have run.
Jesus, I'm sorry those kids got shot; but, we're losing a hundred, or so, of our best kids every month. If I'm going to spend any time grieving it will be for them.
bobalharb said... We had a chinese guy here pop over 'love'. Graduate student here. Felt some other guy was making his girl. Went to Wal-Mart, bought a Buck knife, cut the guy up, took the knife back to Wal-Mart for the refund money. Guilty, 1st degree murder. Last I heard they had shipped him back to China. Nice touch, that, getting the refund on the knife.
Mon Apr 16, 09:22:00 PM EDT
Bob, is giving Doug a run as wit emeritus, but we all love doug. Bob too, except Habu, he hates everyone, which is part of his charm. But then I am back in civilization and can buy and consume some decent wine.
SEOUL, South Korea (Associated Press) -- South Korea may suspend rice shipments to North Korea to ratchet up pressure for it to comply with its nuclear disarmament pledges after it missed a deadline to shut a reactor, an official said Monday. A news report hours later said the North could be preparing for a shutdown.
"We can't just ignore and do nothing if ... North Korea doesn't take initial steps" to disarm as agreed in February at six-nation nuclear talks, an unnamed South Korean official said, according to the Dong-a Ilbo newspaper. Other dailies carried similar reports.
Hey, the only time I wuz late was when I was sick from drinking that watered-down rotgut you been passing off as "Top-Shelf!"
And, I'd a been on-time then if I hadn't tripped and sprayned my ankle when I wuz startled by that Rat. I mean: I'm used to the rats; but, that one wuz bein eatin by the cockroaches.
aren't the NORKS a bit upset about the delays in getting their 25 million released? I hope their delays are just petulant reprisals for holding up ALL THAT MONEY...
From the NewsMax.com Staff For the story behind the story...
Tuesday, Feb. 10, 2004 10:25 p.m. EST Gen. Giap: Kerry's Group Helped Hanoi Defeat U.S.
The North Vietnamese general in charge of the military campaign that finally drove the U.S. out of South Vietnam in 1975 credited a group led by Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry with helping him achieve victory.
In his 1985 memoir about the war, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap wrote that if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S. - according to Fox News Channel war historian Oliver North.
That's why, he predicted on Tuesday, the Vietnam War issue "is going to blow up in Kerry's face."
"People are going to remember Gen. Giap saying if it weren't for these guys [Kerry's group], we would have lost," North told radio host Sean Hannity.
"The Vietnam Veterans Against the War encouraged people to desert, encouraged people to mutiny - some used what they wrote to justify fragging officers," noted the former Marine lieutenant colonel, who earned two purple hearts in Vietnam.
"John Kerry has blood of American soldiers on his hands," North said.
The money was released, but the NorKs left it in the bank. money, money, money
N.Korea Leaves BDA Money Untouched
North Korea has left untouched US$25 million unfrozen in a Macau bank and offered no statement Monday after missing a Saturday deadline to shut down its nuclear facilities under a Feb. 13 six-nation agreement. Experts differ about the reason for Pyongyang’s reticence. Some pundits expect the North to demand a foreign currency transaction account, which it is effectively denied under U.S. financial sanctions. Prof. Kim Hak-sung of Chungnam National University points out that the Stalinist regime cannot transfer the assets from the Banco Delta Asia to a bank in a third country; it can only withdraw the money in cash. He predicted the North will keep demanding the use of a legal account but eventually accept the U.S. solution.
But while looking for the above there was this: Iran 'is seeking N Korea's nuclear expertise' By Con Coughlin Last Updated: 2:20am BST 17/04/2007
Iran and North Korea have appointed high-level delegations to deepen co-operation between the two countries on nuclear weapons technology, according to diplomatic sources in Beijing.
The countries are keen to seal a deal before North Korea starts to close its controversial Yongbyon reactor under the terms of an agreement with the United States and regional powers in February.
N. Korea's Yongbyon reactor The Feb 13 accord was negotiated after North Korea conducted a successful test of a nuclear warhead at the end of last year. Following the international outcry that greeted the test, Pyongyang agreed to close the reactor in return for aid.
1. the smell of napalm in the morning 2. cordite 3. a nicely placed 7.64 at 800yds. 4. pecan pie 5. semtex 6. the sound of a knife on a whetstone 7. I'm a people person 8. boston creme pie 9. flyfishing 10. hiking in griz country
Westhawk begs off commentary or critique of Sheehan's piece - saying only that Rice and Hadley would disagree with the general.
But Sheehan's simply stating what has been stated by others, inside and out - and in doing so did the admin (and a lot of other people) a favor.
They are not ready for an implementation manager because they have no (agreed upon) strategy to implement. The NSA is already the executive coordinator, but there's nothing to coordinate. What neither Rice previously nor Hadley currently can do, neither can a newly created WH chair. At this time, that person would only end up being another cog in the wheel.
Find a strategy, let DoD and other departments figure our how they're going to achieve it with the guidance given, then put your NSA to work.
The WH is good at dictating tactics; not so good at dictating strategy. But the latter is their job.
(It was McCain, I believe who first came up with the idea of a "war czar." I guess someone bit on it.)
And, yeah, Sheehan could be considered for NSA in the next administration.
Sheehan's problem is that he wants to cut & run from Iraq, but the President wants to win. All the double talk about strategy is just to disguise his whining and quitting.
"Sheehan said he believes that Vice President Cheney and his hawkish allies remain more powerful within the administration than pragmatists looking for a way out of Iraq. 'So rather than go over there, develop an ulcer and eventually leave, I said, "No, thanks." '
Jack Levin, a leading authority on mass killings and those who commit them, the story emerging out of Virginia already has many sadly familiar hallmarks...
NEWSWEEK: You’ve studied mass shootings for more than 20 years. What’s the first thing you think of when a story like this starts unfolding?
Jack Levin: I can talk in general terms about this and I’m probably going to be right. In almost every case the motive is revenge. Usually the killer is on a suicidal rampage—he sets out to take his own life but first he takes his revenge on all the people he believes to be responsible for his miseries. Usually the killer has suffered from some catastrophic loss; it could be a girlfriend, a loss of a place in the university—assuming he’s a student or faculty. Either way, in his eyes, it’s catastrophic. It’s the trigger, the catalyst, what pushes him over the edge...
Almost every one of these shootings is premeditative and selective. It’s very rare to see a mass killer in a school or workplace or family target random victims. He’ll more likely step around those he doesn’t see as part of the conspiracy. I bet that happens here. At the same time this looks like a family annihilation where a husband-father wants to get even with his wife because he blames her for all his misery, but does so by killing everything associated with her, everything she loved. I’ve seen things in [the] postal service, where [the attacker] will kill his supervisor, the one who laid him off, and then target everyone else at the post office. This killer may have been setting out to kill the college. I’d like to know who his first victim was.
I would imagine many younger people don’t also quite have the same sense of the value of life either.
There are teenagers I would call “temporary sociopaths.” They’ll commit a hideous act, such as the taking of human life with impunity, when they’re 16 or 19. They wouldn’t dream of doing the same thing when they’re 30
Here is the link to the article where Sheehan says he wants to cut and run. It's the same article the whole discussion is based on. Sheehan also says he never believed in fighting in Iraq in the first place. Many of his comments, like about sanctions hurting the Iraqi people, sound like something Ted Kennedy or netroots would say.
"I've never agreed on the basis of the war, and I'm still skeptical," Sheehan said. "Not only did we not plan properly for the war, we grossly underestimated the effect of sanctions and Saddam Hussein on the Iraqi people."...
There's the residue of the Cheney view -- 'We're going to win, al-Qaeda's there' -- that justifies anything we did," he said. "And then there's the pragmatist view -- how the hell do we get out of Dodge and survive? Unfortunately, the people with the former view are still in the positions of most influence." Sheehan said he wrote a note March 27 declining interest...
"The very fundamental issue is, they don't know where the hell they're going," said retired Marine Gen. John J. "Jack" Sheehan, a former top NATO commander who was among those rejecting the job. Sheehan said he believes that Vice President Cheney and his hawkish allies remain more powerful within the administration than pragmatists looking for a way out of Iraq. "So rather than go over there, develop an ulcer and eventually leave, I said, 'No, thanks,' " he said.
It's true that the White House wouldn't have interviewed Sheehan if they knew he wanted to cut and run. They wouldn't have interviewed him if they knew he was such a whiner. They wouldn't have interviewed him if they knew Sheehan had such rotten ethics that he was going to write attack articles about his interview.
It is shocking. A Marine General who can't stand the idea of fighting Al Qaeda and winning, but instead wants us to figure out "how the hell do we get out of Dodge and survive?"
There's the residue of the Cheney view -- 'We're going to win, al-Qaeda's there' -- that justifies anything we did," he said. "And then there's the pragmatist view -- how the hell do we get out of Dodge and survive?
The Bush Administration knows exactly what they are doing for strategy, democracy, and for tactics, winning by counter insurgency. General Cut & Run just doesn't agree with it. He throws out all the double talk because he doesn't want to say out loud "Give Iran and Syria whatever they want to get them to stop sponsoring terrorism. Cut a face saving deal where the enemy in Iraq ceases fire long enough for us to save face while retreating."
"The Bush Administration knows exactly what they are doing for strategy, democracy, and for tactics, winning by counter insurgency. General Cut & Run just doesn't agree with it."
Then they can attempt to hire another retired general.
Confirmation is starting to build that the shooter was a jilted boy friend who began by shooting the girl friend or a female room mate, then killed an RA who investigated. That was before the second set of killings.
Two persons -- one male and one female -- were found dead in a dorm room in West Ambler Johnston Hall, a co-ed dormitory that houses about 900 people, Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said. The man was identified last night as Ryan Clark, 22, of Martinez, Ga., near Augusta, a resident assistant at the dorm. Mr. Clark, who had been at the school since 2002, had completed his course work and was set to walk across the graduation stage next month with bachelor's degrees in psychology, biology and English, his twin brother said last night.
Above is a link to another blog, one which claims to have heard the story from a relative on campus. It says that a jilted boyfriend tried to confront his girl at her dorm. She was at class, and he ended up killing a room mate and resident assistant who investigated.
The killer supposedly later went to a class room building and shot students in several class rooms.
I have to believe that if more Americans had concealed carry permits, there would be less of this, especially teachers in schools.
ReplyDeleteMore guns on campus comes to mind.
ReplyDeleteNever give a rifle to a melancholy bore. But they get them.
"More Guns, Less Crime" John Lott
> How do we stop this?
ReplyDeleteWe can't stop crime, not totally stop it. No one ever has.
The Iraqi government also will never be able to totally stop crime.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI would have no problem with giving ex-GI's going to school on the GI bill, an extra grand a month, to carry.
ReplyDeleteThat's a good idea, Deuce. In effect deputise those GI's that already know their way around fire arms.
ReplyDeleteClearly, if someone had a weapon at the right place in the right time, it would have ended it.
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like there were at least some armed guards on the campus for the first shooting, and maybe police were there for the second set of shooting. One student reported they were in lockdown, and the second shooting happened after they ended the lockdown. One report was that the killer had a vest too. It was probably a needle in a haystack problem, with a single killer on a large campus.
Officials are confident there was one gunman and that the shootings were not part of a larger plot, CBS News reports. FBI spokesman Richard Kolko in Washington said there was no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack, "but all avenues will be explored."
ReplyDeleteWish I could find the article, but a few days ago I was reading about London, in some of the immigrant areas. London is about as locked down as you can get, but , surprise, surprise, the immigrant gangs have guns, and knives. The only ones that do. This British article went on in the vein, what to do, what to do.
ReplyDeleteDisarming the populace doesn't work.
Domestic quarrel?
ReplyDeleteThe FBI and the ATF believe the gunman, described as a young Asian male, used two handguns in the shootings before taking his own life, sources tell CBS News. One official added that the gunman was "heavily armed and wearing a vest."
Investigators are trying to confirm if the gunman was looking for his girlfriend, CBS News reports.
Then you'd get more Hadithas', duece.
ReplyDeleteMisjudged threats, leading to even more innocent deaths.
The Police responded and killed the shooter, they say on FOX, but do not seem 100% sure. Perhaps a suicide, instead. Just as the police responded in the mall shootings in Salt Lake City.
Jr was surprised when a police Lt told him that he'd go to jail if he beat the crapola out of an illegal alien.
He still is bummed out by the Haditha prosecutions and that the Marines in Afghanistan are being investigated for homicide, when all they did, in his mind, was bust an ambush.
Border Patrolmen are prosecuted for striking irregular border infiltrators, after they throw rocks at the Patrolmen.
Why risk putting a militarily trained shooter in a civilian peacekeeping situation.
Seems likely they'd over react, just like in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Then the veteran would be prosecuted, the evil doer given immunity to testify. As occurred already, with uniformed Border Patrolmen.
Jack Thompson, the talking voice on FOX, blame violent video games.
ReplyDeleteAre they protected speach?
Hard to see how they could be, given McCain-Feingold, but I bet we'll hear that they are.
someone on CNN will blame George Bush...
ReplyDeleteRock and a hard place...I think 2164 is on the money with trained vets who are taking up their new life and studies being armed.
ReplyDeleteBut Desert Rat also makes sense when he points out that in light of border patrol prosecutions (for doing their jobs) and U.S. Marines in a real bind for doing a raid in hostile country things are pretty fucked up.
Fact is more civilians always get killed in wars. So far the Iraq campaign has been antiseptic in it's ferocity from the US side. In my opinion a BIG mistake.
On a college campus if someone is shooting and they're not the police,FBI etc then the ex-GI's are a natural for returning fire, at least covering fire until the police arrive.
If one armed ex -GI had been in the vacinity then there's a good chance the perp would have had a threat to deal with instead of turning the campus into a slaughter house. They could be deputized, no problem. Collegiate hall monitors, like sky marshalls.
As far as second guessing and lawsuits ... you'll never see the end of those anyway so you can't let them be a deterrent. The juries will just have to bone up on jury nullification and decide the case on a "prudent man" basis...would a prudent man have returned fire in the face of mass killing? Hell yeah!
SKY NEWS: Witnesses said he was heavily armed and entered the college looking for his girlfriend... He reportedly lined up students and opened fire at them. He was said to be an Asian, in his mid-20s...
ReplyDeleteTroops flee from border outpost
ReplyDeleteBy Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
January 6, 2007
Armed men overran a National Guard observation post along the U.S.-Mexico border in Arizona this week, forcing the soldiers to retreat and prompting an investigation by the U.S. Border Patrol that has focused on the intruders' identity.
No shots were exchanged and no one was injured in the incident, which occurred shortly after 11 p.m. on Wednesday. The National Guard troops were members of an entry-identification team, assigned to monitor major illegal-alien and drug-smuggling corridors.
After forcing the soldiers to flee, the unidentified men retreated into Mexico.
National Guard Sgt. Edward Balaban said the troops did not know how many men were involved in the attack "because obviously it took place in the dark." He said National Guard officials are investigating the incident and will determine shortly whether to change any procedures for troops at the border.
The Border Patrol probe has focused on determining who the armed men were, what they were doing and why they approached the observation post, which is located near Sasabe, Ariz., in one of this country's major alien and drug-smuggling corridors. The outpost sits on a hillside overlooking the border and is covered by a tent and camouflage netting.
Several Border Patrol agents in the area told The Washington Times yesterday the armed men might have been trying to find out what the Guard troops would do if they were confronted by drug or alien smugglers. They said the increased presence of troops and additional Border Patrol agents in recent months had frustrated many of the area's drug and alien smugglers.
"I guess they got their answer," said one veteran agent. "When in doubt, the troops will run."
Earlier this year, several Border Patrol agents said they had been assigned to guard National Guard personnel, given standing orders to be within five minutes of the troops deployed along the border. The agents, who referred to the assignment as "the nanny patrol," said most of the Guard troops are not allowed to carry loaded weapons, despite a significant increase in violence directed at Border Patrol agents during the past year.
Border Patrol Chief David V. Aguilar disputed the assertions, saying only that "a small percentage" of his agents were working as "force protection" for the Guard members.
If active duty National Guardsmen, on patrol are in this situation, the idea of arming college campuses with veterans would seem to be asking al lot:
ReplyDeleteNational Guard troops taking part in Operation Jump Start are not empowered to get involved in law-enforcement duties. They cannot detain, arrest or interdict anyone or anything coming across the border -- only report them to the Border Patrol.
CNSNews.com) - Gun-toting members of the Mexican military are crossing regularly into U.S. territory, where they are partnering with drug cartels and criminal gangs to protect sophisticated smuggling operations, according to Texas sheriffs and lawmakers.
ReplyDeleteSome of the Mexican infiltrators are suspected to have been trained by the U.S. military.
U.S. Border Patrol agents and local law enforcement officials operating along the southwestern border have come under attack from the Mexican side in recent months, with automatic gunfire frequently erupting, Rep. John Culberson (R-Texas) told Cybercast News Service.
Mexican military units and drug cartels have access to weaponry and communications equipment far more advanced than resources made available to U.S. officials on the state and federal level, Culberson said.
"The U.S. Border Patrol is telling its agents to just lay low and report on what they see," he said. "They are instructed to determine the size of the [Mexican military] unit, the number of personnel, the direction of travel."
The U.S. ambassador to Mexico has sent diplomatic notes to the Mexican government complaining about incursions into U.S. territory by "individuals dressed in military uniforms," according to a congressional report.
Culberson plans to meet with the Mexican ambassador to discuss border issues early in the new year.
More than 200 incursions by the Mexican military of the U.S. southern border have been documented since the late 1990s, Rep. Ted Poe (R-Texas) said in an interview.
"Our federal government denied it occurred until the Texas sheriffs took photos," he said. "There is no nation in the world that would allow this invasion to occur except for the United States."
I would have no problem with giving ex-GI's going to school on the GI bill, an extra grand a month, to carry.
ReplyDeleteOne problem with that suggestion is that the vast majority of "ex-GIs" have very little experience with firearms, especially side-arms. I'd venture a guess, based purely on anecdotal evidence, that the majority of folks taking advantage of the GI bill are from support areas that fire a weapon during Basic Training and then maybe once a year after that, if that often. They're no more qualified than anyone else. And as others have stated, the military doesn't do so well in matters of "keeping the peace" - they aren't trained for it.
No, it would be much better to simply allow ALL students the right to carry a firearm on campus. Concealed carry permits are nice, but shouldn't be neccessary. I don't remember reading anywhere in the Constitution or Bill of Rights about the right to keep and bear arms only if you have the right paperwork.
How do you spell
ReplyDelete"Tone Deaf?"
---
""The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed,"
spokeswoman Dana Perino said "
"Mexican officials gave the excuse that it was a new military unit that got lost and didn't know it was in the U.S.," he said. "But I find this hard to believe."
ReplyDelete'Trained in the US'
Some of the Mexican soldiers collaborating with drug cartels were trained at one time at the School of the Americas in Fort Benning, Ga., said Sheriff Rick Flores of Webb County.
Although they were trained to combat "narco-terrorism" many such soldiers are ultimately lured by the fact they can make substantially more money working with the cartels, Flores said in an interview.
"We train people to fight bad elements and help restore order but they end up defecting," he said. "Then we end up fighting them after we train them."
MS-13, we trained the fathers, at the School of the Americas, when it was at Fort Gulick, Canal Zone.
No doubt we trained some of those Mexicans in Georgia, as well.
How about them Iraqi, will they prove more loyal to US than Mexicans and Salvadorans?
An "armed" society is a "polite" society.....
ReplyDelete1. Troops and Border agents burned while doing their jobs.
ReplyDelete2. Imus the first major figure taken down by Media Matters, where Soros pays the young Brownshirts to moniter all channels all day long.
Soon there will be no-one to enforce security, and no one to report about it when it happens.
Brave New World indeed.
Rem, i hear what you say. two thoughts:
ReplyDeletei like the maturity of an ex GI and I also like the motivation of him or her going to college afterwards....I am suuuuuure, the firing range at the local military base will be more than happy to qualify an ex that steps up for the duty.
Aquarium, by the way welcome, and if you are so inclined you may take shots at me like some of the other elephanteers. I look forward to your contributions.
ReplyDelete...but you're talking pure fantasy, Deuce.
ReplyDeleteCurrently, these things are a cost of doing business, the postmodern way.
So you'd Federalize security at all the colleges in the US, duece?
ReplyDeleteTraining not at local or State police sites but at Federal installations. Paid by the Federals, of course, reporting for refresher traiining through the National Guard, perhaps, or a new Security Branch entirely?
Just as Aquarium notes above that non-violence rules today's post-modern "Warfare"
ReplyDeleteWe Lose.
Federalize,
ReplyDeleteMon Apr 16, 04:14:00 PM EDT
How do you spell "Waco?"
Ministers Loyal to Iraqi Cleric Quit Government Posts
ReplyDeleteMoktada al-Sadr’s followers said that they were withdrawing because the government had refused to set a timetable for pulling American troops out of Iraq.
The Lede: Why Now?
DR, I would not federalize them, but encourage them to exercise their second amendment rights. I would simply clarify the federal law that would allow, train and pay. They would not be marshalls but mature trained citizens with a side arm.
ReplyDeleteLet the Federals secure the borders and leave college campuses to the locals.
ReplyDelete32 deaths, one being the shooter. 60% the death toll of an average daily toll in Iraq.
1,800 civilians last month killed in Iraq.
The US is doing fine the way it is, internally.
I just had another thought - the first "incident" took place in a dorm. It's probably fair to say that the vast majority of residents in said dorm were under the age of 21. Even if Deuce's plan of arming veterans were implemented, it is doubtful they'd be in/near the dorms.
ReplyDeleteMuch like the legal drinking age, the age for handgun ownership should be dropped to 18, or scrapped all together.
Then why pay them?
ReplyDeleteSeems that with that payment they'd recieve added authority and responsibility, more so than an average Joe.
In AZ we have a "Conceal Carry" system, but it is unconstitutional. The State Constitution forbids regulation of firearms, at all.
The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the State shall not be impaired
A Conceal Carry permit is an impairment of that Right. We have never had a concealed weapons charge go to Court, in AZ.
It is a unenforceable Law that the State will not allow to be challenged, but keeps on the books, to harass those that need harassing.
"The US is doing fine the way it is, internally."
ReplyDelete---
Agreed:
Police have swat teams and etc.
All we would need to eliminate 90% of crimes would be to have Mayors like Rudy enforce laws already on the books.
If Illegals and repeat offenders were not on the street, most crime would be gone.
Just Another (domestic) Good Natured Wrestling Match
ReplyDeletein Paradise.
Herr Wu
2164th,
ReplyDeleteWhy do you believe that just because a person is ex GI that they are sufficiently stable to roam campuses armed? Given the prevalence of PTSD and the penchant many have for alcohol that they would be a reliable armed campus security force.
I have to believe that if more Americans had concealed carry permits, there would be less of this, especially teachers in schools. 2164
ReplyDeleteTruer words were never spoken. Numerous studies have shown that when criminals are in an area they know the citizens can carry concealed weapons crime goes down.
> I have to believe that if more Americans had concealed carry permits, there would be less of this, especially teachers in schools.
ReplyDeleteI think this is the approach that would work. While I respect the idea of veterans patrolling the campuses, it would take too many, and most universities and other building go 50 or 100 or more years between shootings. It would be the most boring guard duty in history. But the teachers are already there, already have business, and there is one in each room.
There is a price to pay for the coarsening of society. Anarchy is increasing.
ReplyDeleteI don't expect the government to protect me. I tell my girls to maintain situational awareness AT ALL TIMES and teach them to combat shoot. They will need these skills during their lifetime.
We are headed for a new Dark Age this century. Better to get used to these tragedies.
> There is a price to pay for the coarsening of society. Anarchy is increasing.
ReplyDeleteThat's the thing. This is pure evil, what ancient people called a demon. The facts are still coming in, but it sounds like this thing impersonating a human chained the doors to buildings shut so people couldn't get out, then went from classroom to classroom killing everyone.
Ash, it's like this with me. If a vet has an honorable discharge and is going to college, and is normal by current standards, I believe he is as good a risk as anyone else plus.
ReplyDeleteIt is one thing to shoot at someone and it is quite another to be shot at. I would be willing to bet that it would not stop all of this type of thing. But it is similar to armed marshals on a plane. The slaughter would be reduced.
A couple of weeks ago , over at Observanda, Tiger recalled taking his rifle to high school, via the school bus, for a school gun club. i did the same thing. After I was thirteen, I cannot recall a friend that did not own, use clean and respect a gun.
You may have more ideas on societal disfunction than I do. (not by experience, I am sure.) My suggestion is not the answer but part of it. Unfortunately for all of us, society has opened an artery of depravity and band aids will not fix it.
The students resisted, and fought back.
ReplyDelete“None of us thought it could have been gunshots,” a student who identified himself as Trey Perkins told MSNBC’s Chris Jansing in a telephone interview. “... I’m not sure how long it lasted. It seemed like a really long time.”
Perkins said the gunman never said a word. “He didn’t say, ‘Get down.’ He didn’t say anything.” He just started shooting.”
The gunman left that classroom and then tried to return, but students kept him out by bracing the door closed with their feet. “He started to try to come in again and started shooting through the door,” Perkins said, but hit no one.
Here you go. Guns Off Campus
ReplyDeleteGood timing, Virginia Assembly.
So then Why, and how was this individual able to have a gun @school, bobal?
ReplyDelete...didn't he know?
lugh lampfhota said...
ReplyDelete"I don't expect the government to protect me."
On the mark; stated before -
...it's the typical Western mindset,coddled into believing that all of their protection, all their needs can be met by the state. This has made the west particularly vulnerable to actors who operate within the targets population and attack the weak underbelly of society.
The police, the FBI, the Army will never be able to respond to terrorist planning and events in time to do something other than sift through the wreckage. It’s a battle that will have to be won by civilian citizens (the wisdom of the 2nd amendment). Until that mindset becomes prevalent, we’re all going to have to take our lumps as they come.
Sun Mar 25, 03:04:00 PM EDT
- and don't think the enemy is not watching, learning...
Malvo, Beslan, & this...
If a single individual with handguns can do so much damage; how much more could trained paramilitary individuals (say n=10) with assault rifles?
I can't understand it, Doug, I quess he just hadn't read the proper statute.
ReplyDeleteI agree there is much depravity in society and it is just for this reason that I'm not convinced that more people carrying more guns would change things for the better. Having a bunch of kids running about campus carrying concealed weapons strikes me as a recipe for all kinds of GSW's. Kids aren't particularly rational especially when angered and/or drunk. Having every teacher pack a gun in their desk may be a little more reasonable but that is still putting a lot of weapons in easy reach of many. Most shootings aren't preplanned but rather acts of anger and 'arming up' simply because of very rare incidents like todays could lead to a society much like Iraq's were the weapon of choice is an AK47 and most every family has at least one - for protection I might add.
ReplyDeleteAll of my friends had guns in our trucks, in high school.
ReplyDeleteOpen carry, has always been approved of, here. Strap it on your hip, let the world know. It's only fair, to give the bad guy a chance at being deterred.
Back to Jackie Robinson for a moment.
ReplyDeleteReally liked that guy. A class act. Elegant.
The openly carried weapon is a deterence, a concealed weapon is not. In most cases, I'd venture to guess, from experience.
ReplyDeleteOne neighbor carries an M4 in his trunk, but if you did not know he was FBI or had the weapon, the M4s lack of presence would not stop a crime, by deterence.
Another, a cowboy, carries a 12 gauge in his truck gun rack, for all the world to see, people do not cut him off in traffic.
"An Army lieutenant during World War II, he showed everyone how to combat racism."
ReplyDelete---
Reminds me:
They say Don Ho was Jet-Rated and flew C-97s for several years for Air Force.
maintain situational awareness
ReplyDeletelugh lampfhota
This is the crux of the situation in todays world. We use to be able to amble about, rather carefree, but the world, as all things do, has changed.
Any place now where people congregate is a potential target.
Many years ago (29) a friend and I were working on a screenplay that involved plane hijackers flying a fully fueled DC-10 into a football stadium at a parallel angle to the stadium to wipe out one side of the stadium with the debris field and inferno..we never finished the screenplay. But it is too easy. Hijack a Learjet and you could kill 30-40 thousand easy.
Hit the grandstands at Daytona, not straight on but parallel to them and you's kill 60-70 thousand.
In many ways the terrorists are winninng. They, Iran,Syria, and probably Pakistan need to be dealt with. This Islamic terrorism is showing the way for other groups with psycho leaders ...Hugo comes to mind.
Whether our targets are incontrovertably guilty or not is beginning to matter less and less. Sufficeient intelligence on terrorist aid should become the bars new height.
Todays massacre might not be germane to what I have said, but what I've said is very germane to today's world.
elijah, something similar to your scenario occurred in LA, 1997.
ReplyDeleteThis is what you'd get, in a major city, over 200 police responding.
The shooters killed, another dozen or so wounded. If society is lucky.
LOS ANGELES (CNN) -- A blaze of automatic gunfire ripped through a crowded neighborhood after several heavily-armed gunmen dressed like commandos botched a bank robbery.
Two suspects were killed, and 15 people were injured, including 10 policemen. None of the injuries incurred during the hour-long shootout was "life threatening," Los Angeles Police Chief Willie Williams said.
Initially out-gunned, police responded to a scene in North Hollywood that resembled a combat zone. Bullets were flying from all directions into cars and buildings -- and bystanders, too.
More than 200 police were on hand for the siege, which lasted more than an hour. Armored personnel carriers and dozens of police cars, fire engines and ambulances were called to subdue the attackers and attend to the wounded.
Wearing body armor and carrying a trunk full of weapons, the robbers were ready for a fight. And that's exactly what they delivered, firing "multiple hundreds" of rounds, according to police.
They fired armor-piercing bullets at anything that moved, and one suspect used a getaway car as a shield. Two suspects fought fiercely to the death, killed by helmeted police who fired bullets to the head at close range.
Police search neighborhood for suspects
Police Cmdr. Tim McBride said he'd seen nothing like it since the Symbionese Liberation Army opened fire on LAPD officers in 1974, three months after members kidnapped newspaper heiress Patty Hearst.
Nine elementary schools in the area were shut down. And residents of the middle-class neighborhood northwest of downtown Los Angeles were advised to stay in their homes or call 911 if they had to leave.
The shootout occurred not far from the Disney, Universal and Warner Bros. studios, and the busy Hollywood Freeway was closed in both directions, tying up mid-day traffic.
The brazen attack was covered by police helicopters hovering above the scene, some drawing fire from the suspects. During the battle, one robber calmly tossed an empty assault weapon into the trunk and picked up another, as if he were changing flashlight batteries.
"They had black masks over their faces and full black gear, with belts and ammo around their waists," said Bob McKibben, an appliance store manager who watched the battle. "These guys were ready for war."
"It was like the OK Corral," said witness Nancy Swanson.
Police borrow guns, ammo from a gun shop
Officers who initially responded to Friday's robbery, carrying standard-issue 9 millimeter Baretta handguns, were in trouble.
"Tactically, the first officers that arrived were at a severe disadvantage," weapons expert and former LAPD officer Dave Butler said. "Police carry 15 rounds. They would need to re-load."
Stunned officers were out-gunned to such a degree that at one point they burst into a gun store, and walked out with more powerful guns and ammunition.
Police "came in a panic because their weapons weren't good enough to fight these people," said the store's president, who would identify himself only as Bob.
"These people had body armor and they needed something that would break body armor," he said. "We supplied them with slugs that would at least break bones on someone wearing body armor."
Added the LAPD's McBride: "We have many suspects who have multiple guns, and they continue to out-gun us and fire at us at will."
DR,
ReplyDeleteI understand the point you are trying to make, but this is rather disingenuous: Another, a cowboy, carries a 12 gauge in his truck gun rack, for all the world to see, people do not cut him off in traffic.
Visit the South during hunting season and notice how many rifles and shotguns you see in the back windows of pick-ups. While the presence there may deter a carjacking, traffic pays it no mind - its too common a sight.
Here's how I look at it - if I were the "bad guy" and I was approaching a group of "good guys", the ones openly carrying a weapon would be my first targets. With a "concealed weapon", an individual can maintain a level of "surprise" should the need for it arise.
How many would the psycho have killed if other students in the room were armed, 10? It's true that the psycho would have been stopped sooner, but he also would have carried his weapons into the room with no one suspecting, that was his right, and unlike the other students in the room, the killer would know he was going to shoot. The killer, in the back of the room, could put on a vest (like he did) and start firing from a concealed position.
ReplyDeleteI believe in the right to bear arms, but it would only be a partial help. One of the biggest murders of this type was in an area from Texas where lots of citizens were armed. In fact that was part of the defense against the killer, who was in a tower, armed citizens joining the police in shooting back. But the killer already quietly took some victims on the way up to the tower, he killed more before people returned fire, and then the killer used the concealment of the tower to continue firing for some time before police killed him.
So I support the second amendment but don't see it as preventing most of the killing in mass murders of this type.
This is also one of the most bizarre cases. The guy had a brain tumor, and seemed to suspect it. He wrote notes about what he was going to do, that he couldn't stop himself, and asked for an autopsy after he died and for his body to be donated to science to try and prevent others from doing the same thing. After doing all that, he went out and did the killings.
Charles Whitman Killings
Good post Deuce and a good many great comments.
ReplyDeleteWhat a tragedy.
One solution not explored yet. All campuses should have a total NUDE policy. No rucksacks etc, just nude students.
Anyone wearing clothes would be arrested.
I believe this policy would also help address the obeseity pandemic.
Sure, rem, if they are coming for a predetermined fight.
ReplyDeleteBut if you're in the 7-11 when two or three hooligans barge in, for a smash & grab, a side arm on the clerk or another customer may well be deterence enough to send them out of the store, no harm, no foul ...
Two "good old boys" do not tend to shoot it out, though one cop friend said a signifigent problem was minor auto accidents that escalate, when one or the other of the drivers is armed.
Each situation is different.
The greeks new something about running a gynasium, Habu. You may be on to something there. Just extend the policy across campus. Might work in Iraq too. But I quess it is not a day to make light.
ReplyDeleteI'd be goin' back to school, if the habu proposal was invoked.
ReplyDeleteThe authorities haven't released the facts yet, but one story going around is that the killer just had two small caliber handguns, 9 mm and / or .22 caliber. If that's true, then he could have been disarmed even though the other students didn't have guns.
ReplyDeleteThis would explain a story that the killer tried to come back to a classroom where he had killed before, but the students blocked the door with their bodies. The killer tried shooting through the door but didn't kill anyone else.
33
ReplyDeleteCell Phone Video
ReplyDeleteAbout 56 people were wounded, some critically, and 15 were taken to five hospitals. The injuries included gun wounds, but also broken bones and sprains sustained by students who jumped from windows to escape the attacker.
ReplyDeleteHe didn't say a single word
ReplyDeleteBut within seconds the source of the sound became clear, when a gunman entered the lecture hall and shot the professor before turning his guns on students.
“He didn’t say a single word the whole time,” said Perkins. “He didn’t say get down, he didn’t say anything. He just came in and started shooting.”
Perkins and his classmates instinctively fell to the ground, turning over desks to create barriers between themselves and the shooter, who seemed to be firing randomly.
“He started shooting around,” Perkins recalls. “I’m not sure how long it lasted. It felt like a really long time, but was probably only a minute or so.”
Perkins said the most striking thing about the shooter was his stoic demeanor.
“He looked like, I guess you could say, serious," he told MSNBC TV hours after the incident. "He didn’t look frightened at all, he didn’t look angry. Just a straight face.”
... When the gunman finally left, Perkins and two other students, one of them bleeding from a wound to the arm, tried to brace the door closed to prevent his return.
“He started to try to open the door again, and then tried to shoot through the door, four, five, maybe six shots,” remembers Perkins. “Fortunately none of those shots hit anyone.”
As he and the other students still standing scrambled to help the injured, they could hear shooting elsewhere in the building.
It sure is taking them a L O N G time ID the shooter.
ReplyDeleteThat is beginning to get a bit smelly.
> It sure is taking them a L O N G time ID the shooter.
ReplyDeleteHis face was blown away when he killed himself, and his prints don't match anything in the FBI files.
Yoni says Israeli Schools armed.
ReplyDeleteAquarium:
ReplyDeleteChange the Water!
It could be a lot of things, but if he was really a young guy in his 20's who went psycho, he could have no previous record and be hard to track.
ReplyDeleteInvestigators told NBC News that they had been unable to positively identify the gunman, who died after he shot himself in the face. He carried no ID or cell phone, and an initial check on his fingerprints came up empty.
ReplyDeleteWitnesses described him as a man in his 20s, wearing a maroon cap and a black leather jacket. A spokesman for the FBI in Washington said there was no immediate evidence to suggest that the incident was a terrorist attack, “but all avenues will be explored.”
Does anyone know if Habu has any offspring?
ReplyDeleteBad joke Habu.
ReplyDeleteTrey Perkins, who was sitting in room 207 in Norris Hall, said the gunman barged into the room at about 9:50 a.m. and opened fire for about a minute and a half. "Some 30 shots in all," said Perkins, who was seated in the back of the room.
ReplyDeleteIt was a German class, Perkins said, and there were about 15 students in the room. The gunman, who was holding two pistols, Perkins said, first shot the professor in the head and kept on shooting at the students. Perkins said the student was of Asian descent, "around 19," and had "very serious but very calm look on his face."
"Everyone hit the floor at that moment," said Perkins, 20, of Yorktown, Va., a sophomore studying mechanical engineering, who sounded shaken on the phone. "And the shots seemed like it lasted forever."
33 dead
Aquarium,
ReplyDeleteI understand. I have no children, and as you know if I did they would be using some type of covert operation.
I heard the perp used a 9mm, and it disfigured his face so badly they can't scotch tape it back together? A .45ACP I can understand but a 9mm. Even a shot under the chin or in the mouth has me questioning the damage. I've seen both types of wounds.
Now a 7.62 can turn your head into a canoe.
When the generals march in
ReplyDeleteWesthawk
Here is a prediction: By the summer of 2009, we will see a record number of retired or active duty generals and admirals serving in top level policy positions in the U.S. government. This will occur regardless of whether the Democratic or Republican candidate wins the presidency. And the base supporters of neither party will be happy with this outcome.This morning, General John Sheehan, USMC (ret), explained in greater detail why he refused the offer to be the Bush administration’s “war czar”:
The police could also have a good reason for temporarily holding information back. There still may be some concern about two shooters, since the killings were separated. They may be bringing in the killer's parents for questioning, before word leaks out to them (like if they said the killer's name). Also, the authorities haven't confirmed the report of small caliber weapons only. Another report says he was "heavily armed" which wouldn't seem to fit two handguns, unless it was because he was carrying ammunition. It's possible that the student lived hundreds of miles away from campus, I mean his parent's home, and they might want to search it first before revealing his name.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that "disfigurement" from a suicide shot won't work. If the cops put a "Large" caliber in the back of his head that would do it.
ReplyDeleteThis Asshole Sheehan seems to have a pretty nasty case of diarrhea of the larnyx.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if he was offered a job, or if he was "interviewed," and told he wouldn't be needed?
Don (bleep) Passed Away.
ReplyDelete...Limbaugh
Sorry I wrote the "H" word above re: Pilot Bleep.
When I went to college, decades ago, no one took my fingerprints. So if I had been shot in the face & killed, and wasn't carrying identification, they would have had a tough time figuring out who I was. Even if they saw my ugly face, if I had been shot elsewhere, I don't see how they wouldn't have known my name, one of tens of thousands of young males on campus.
ReplyDeleteNot to jump too far ahead but AQ did recently say they would specifically target schools.
ReplyDeleteNow we have a shooter with no fingerprints available, we only know him as an Asian, around 19.
I think we're not being given all the knowns at the moment.
Some were lined up and executed...sounds like a cool calculated professional job.
> Some were lined up and executed...sounds like a cool calculated professional job.
ReplyDeleteI didn't see that part, lined up and executed. If the killer was really using a 9 mm, it doesn't sound professional to me. That's not a weapon of terror, and the killer had a chance of having it taken from him.
This also is not AQ's style. They go for dramatic attacks like damaging a ship or knocking down the world trade center, not a single terrorist shooting a few dozen students with two small handguns.
Doug,
ReplyDeleteGreat link and a good explanation by the general which gives Desert Rat's assessments real gravitas.
Some leaders just lose self confidence, some turn to the power of prayer to solve real time Earthly problems. It makes me wonder if W has developed a passion for the Rose Garden tranquility that Jimmy Carter sought during the hostage crisis. I can see a case for definite parallels. Unless....
Unless W is so poker faced as to be preparing the mother of all air assaults on Iran. I guess here in the peanut gallery we'll all just have to keep watching and guessing.
If it was, amigo mio, we'll not hear of it.
ReplyDeleteAny more than Mr Nichols training trips to the Philippines made the cut of the American publics' "needs to know".
Prior to his travels he and McVeigh could not get their stump thumpers to detonate. Try as the might. After a few trips to Cebu City, no problem.
Cebu City at the time was a reputed base for several militant organizations, including Liberation Army of the Philippines, the Communist Huk, and the Al-Qaida affiliate Abu Sayyaf. Stephen Jones, the trial attorney who first represented Tim McVeigh, cited evidence of a meeting in Davao City, in Mindanao in 1992 or 1993, when Yousef members, Abdul Hakim Murad, Wali Khan Amin Shah and a "farmer" met to discuss the Oklahoma bombing. Jones said the FBI was aware of the meeting.
And there was no third man, renting that Ryder truck, they now say.
The gunman at Norris Hall, who police say took his own life, was not carrying identification and has not been identified.
ReplyDeleteFreshman Erin Sheehan told the university newspaper she was in German class at Norris when the gunman peeked in twice "like he was looking for someone" and then started shooting.
The students tried to blockade the door, but the shooter -- dressed in "a Boy Scout-type outfit" -- made it inside.
"I saw bullets hit people's body," Sheehan told The Collegiate Times. "There was blood everywhere. People in the class were passed out -- I don't know maybe from shock from the pain. But I was one of only four that made it out of that classroom."
The remaining students, about 20 of them, were dead or injured, she told the newspaper.
This is proof of the conspiracy:
ReplyDelete> Freshman Erin Sheehan
General Sheehan
Cindy Sheehan
First, the death of this mindset MUST transpire:
ReplyDeleteFrom the VT web site:
What to Do When Violence Occurs
* Do not physically touch an outraged person, or try to force them to leave.
*Calmly ask the person to place any weapons in a neutral location while you continue to talk to them.
* Never attempt to disarm or accept a weapon from the person in question. Weapon retrieval should only be done by a police officer.
It should read "In case of violence, eliminate the threat to you and others around you with every means at your disposal."
The fact is, the Virginia legislature killed a bill (HB1572) in 2006 that would have allowed CCW on college campuses.
This country MUST get over the pathology that Big Mother Government will wish all of the bad people away and that you are not responsible for your own safety.
If I was al-Q and Hizb'allah, I just took some great notes and saw how easily I could have four trained guys slaughter several hundred people with impunity.
The sheep have been trained to freeze at the first sign of trouble and be slaughtered while waiting for Dudley Dooright and F-Troop to show up and mop up the carnage.
The passengers of Flight 93 hand their blinders removed just in enough time to foil their killers' plans, but it took the deaths of 3000 others for the zeitgeist to take root.
It is high time we stopped listening to those that think it more civilized to allow your wife and daughters to be raped and killed than to resist and fight back.
The culture of modern left / liberalism is the culture of death and defeat. It must be annihilated if the West is to survive.
If you carry, take a class this weekend to dial yourself in. Take force-on-force training. If you can find a school that teaches active shooter response, DO IT.
As the old gunshow bumpersticker says, "FIGHT CRIME. SHOOT BACK."
Herr Wu Wei,
ReplyDeleteThe fatwah issued from Qom last year allow Muslims to kill Americans anytime, anyplace. This could have been a AQ sympathizer or just a nut case.
The only point I'm making is that executing them in a systematic manner is driven by something other than Sun Ming turned him down for the Spring prom....we'll find out ..you points are very valid. Just too bad we're in the dark on the shooter and I just personally don't buy the fact that they haven't located a trail to follow by now..even if he took a bus or cab to the campus. Somebody somewhere had contact with the perp and Blacksburg ain't that big.
That's Heavy, Wu.
ReplyDeleteHilarious, too!
Welcome brother d-day. Check his blog out sportsfans! He is nuttier than you think!
ReplyDeleteMaybe he became uncontrollably despondent when he found out Wu was an Aryan Pretender.
ReplyDelete> The fatwah issued from Qom last year allow Muslims to kill Americans anytime, anyplace
ReplyDeleteI didn't mean to seem too negative. The report of the killer's serious face, his not saying a word, and picking victims at random and by the dozen, make him seem insane to me.
The detectives are narrowing the list of suspects, and closing in on identifying the killer:
ReplyDelete> All I can tell you is he's a male, says police chief
cnn.com
Thanks Deuce. Love the EB. Been lurking for a while. You guys and gals are dailed in.
ReplyDeleteHe's gonna fit right in.
ReplyDeletePasses the insanity test.
ReplyDeletePolice say they will release the name in a couple of hours. When asked if it was a student, they said "something like that".
ReplyDeleteAccording to this report, bullets could not penetrate a wooden door!
One report was that the killer was wearing something like a boy scout uniform (a psycho boy scout?), but most reports are like this one, a leather jacket.
33 killed
Sophomore Derek O’Dell, who was shot in the arm during the second attack, described the gunman. “He was male, Asian descent and he was about six feet tall wearing a black leather coat and a maroon hat,” he told CBS Evening News anchor Katie Couric. "And he didn't say anything, which I found very unusual. He just started shooting people and it was truly tragic.”
O’Dell said he hid under a desk when the gunman started shooting. “I had not even realized I had been shot until I got up and saw the blood on my arm. But with the two people who hadn't been shot, with their help, we helped to barricade the door to prevent him from coming back in. ... Then he had come back after firing shots in other classrooms and he proceeded to shoot the door, which was wooden, so bullets were hitting the door and almost coming through door.” The barricade worked, however, and the gunman did not reenter the classroom, O’Dell said.
Investigators offered no motive for the attack, reports CBS News correspondent Bob Orr. Police have been working on identifying the suspect and say they expect to release the name in the coming hours. When asked if the gunman was a student, police say “something like that,” indicating that perhaps he was a teaching assistant, reports Orr.
Wu,
ReplyDeleteIf the guy was a Dickhead, how would they know he was male, given that it was blown off?
yaaa, I can just see it now, all dem gang bangers in da city organizing force on force training and armin' up with all the best weaponry...or is it only good guys that actually carry guns?
ReplyDeleteHerr Wu Wei,
ReplyDeleteSince he's a male I guess we know his Johnson is no longer on the prowl. That's good news.
They should know by now if he was circum -ooh -ouch, you know, Little Red Roostered. If he wasn't I can keep on my desparate attempt to AQ him.
Soon we'll find he was a member of the South Moluccan
Royal Dutch Marines vs. South Moluccan Terrorists, 1977
One bright May morning in 1977, the children of Bovendsmilde were settling down for their lessons when four South Moluccan terrorists stormed the school. Armed with submachine guns and grenades, they took 105 children and 4 teachers hostage. A short time later, just outside of town, nine heavily armed South Moluccans boarded a commuter train, taking 60 hostages. After 14 long hours, the terrorists begin issuing their political demands. As negotiations dragged on for an interminable two weeks, the Royal Dutch Marines were taking action. See how the elite counter-terrorism and commando squad used thermal imaging and listening devices to formulate a rescue plan. This double siege is the most famous mission of the Royal Dutch Marines and is still studied by counter-terrorism units worldwide as a textbook example of how to handle a hostage crisis.
Indonesian terrorists..look into it ..lots of Muslims in Indonesia
Either the authorities know more than they are revealing, or they screwed up big time. They say they didn't alarm the campus after the first two killings, because they thought it was a domestic quarrel, and the killer had fled the campus. They must have been pretty confident about the killer's identity to risk everyone else by not warning them.
ReplyDeleteSo if the same killer went to the classrooms and killed more people, they should have known who he was.
Anybody seen Harrison lately?
ReplyDeleteAccording to the press conference just now, everything is up in the air. Police said there is a "person of interest", someone off campus who they are talking to. They said they don't have a motive. They also aren't sure the two shootings were connected to the same gunman.
ReplyDeleteWarn them of what, wu?
ReplyDeleteThat there had been a double homicide?
It was over, the rounds expended the perp had escaped, but the Person of Interest who had been sought, was being interviewed by police when the second incident began.
It may well be the two incidents are connected, or not.
ATF has the weapons and is doing a ballistic check of them, comparing the first incidents' bullets to the two weapons in custody.
The Person of Interest was not detained after the interview, there being no probable cause to arrest him. All from the News Conference with the college cop and President
brother d-day said...
ReplyDelete"If I was al-Q and Hizb'allah, I just took some great notes and saw how easily I could have four trained guys slaughter several hundred people with impunity."
dr wrote...
"warn them of what"
i didn't even have to ask tijani for a translation
Persia
Sequestered in some cell right now is a person having NASA quality undies placed on his head in an attempt to break him down.
ReplyDeleteNext comes a flesh pile with beer bellied jailers and inmate trustees...a Wesson Press'n as we use to say...then the Tesla-light-up-your-balls machine. We'll find out who was on that grassy knoll, just watch.
Personally the Dremel with the wirebrush end up the urethra gets great results.
it's insane!! scary! i wish they'd put more security measures in schools.
ReplyDeleteGet this:
ReplyDeleteH.R. 808: Department of Peace and Nonviolence ActHR 808 IH110th CONGRESS1st SessionH. R. 808To establish a Department of Peace and Nonviolence.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
February 5, 2007
Mr. KUCINICH (for himself, Mr. ABERCROMBIE, Mr. ANDREWS, Ms. BALDWIN, Ms. CORRINE BROWN of Florida, Ms. CARSON, Mr. CLAY, Mr. CONYERS, Mr. CUMMINGS, Mr. DAVIS of Illinois, Mrs. DAVIS of California, Mr. DEFAZIO, Mr. ELLISON, Mr. FARR, Mr. FILNER, Mr. AL GREEN of Texas, Mr. GRIJALVA, Ms. HIRONO, Mr. HOLT...
Gates of Vienna
"Personally the Dremel with the wirebrush end up the urethra gets great results."
ReplyDelete---
Man, talk about a need for intense stimulation!
33 dead
ReplyDeleteCampus Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said investigators Monday night had preliminarily identified the gunman, whose name he did not reveal. Investigators told NBC News that they had trouble for several hours identifying the man, who died after he shot himself in the face. He carried no ID, and an initial check on his fingerprints came up empty...
Flinchum said investigators were questioning a man who knew one of the dormitory victims when reports of the second round of shooting came in. He gave few details, but he said the man was cooperating and was not in custody.
Flinchum would not confirm that the two incidents were related, but he referred to only one gunman and said no other suspect was being sought. Numerous federal and local law enforcement officials told NBC News that the events were believed to be the work of a lone gunman...
About 2½ hours later, police responded to a 911 call reporting that shots had been fired at Norris Hall. They discovered that the front doors had been chained, apparently so victims could not escape and police could not enter.
Officers forced their way in and followed the sound of gunshots to the second floor, where they found the gunman, who had shot himself in the face. As they canvassed the building, they found dozens of gunshot victims. Eventually, they announced that 30 were dead in the classroom building.
“It’s probably one of the worst things I’ve seen in my life,” Flinchum said.
A general warning that there are bad people in the World, elijah?
ReplyDeleteWhat should the College have done?
Send 26,000 people home, back to the dorms?
They HAD locked down the dorm building where the first killings took place.
Lock the students in Harris Hall?
Isn't that what the shooter did?
There was no indication that mass murder was in the air. None made public, anyway.
What if the shooter had gone off Campus and rampaged, in the event of locking down the college campus. Gone to an Elementry school, instead.
In Phoenix we had a couple of serial killers running wild, last year. Should we have created curfews and road block check points all over town?
We do not even shut down the cell phones in Iraq, let alone take their cars or gasoline subsidies away, nor lock down Baghdad. They lose 50 people a day, day in, day out. For months on end, now.
Cost benefit analysis, maybe the Administrators were wrong, maybe not. If it was a seperate incident, the first not connected to the second. Or connected, but with seperate shooters.
Every murder in the US will require closing the buildings of the institution where it occurred?
For how long should they be closed?
What about the anthrax attacks of 2001, do not open your mail, until that perp is caught. Well, I feel better now, you've been warned.
Close down the college, city, business, there's been a shooting. Talk about your nanny state mentality.
Drudge:
ReplyDeleteA Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa. The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups...
Police believe 3 bomb threats on campus last week may have been attempts by the man to test the campus' security response...
Elijah,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the great clips from our nukes-for-energy-only Earth neighbors the Iranians. Peace be upon them.
Perhaps we have been too harsh in our judgement of them, but alas I am in Habu's camp on nuking their asses if for no other reason than they have earned a good nuking. Plus it will make my Isfahan rugs skyrocket in value.
Yes I am shallow. Nuking a country so my rugs will increase in value. Yes that qualifies as shallow..
ReplyDeleteOh those nefarious Chinese ..no more takee-outee for me.
Back to my earlier suggestion and expand the GI bill.
ReplyDeleteIs this an uh Oh?
ReplyDeleteht Wretchard
"Yes I am shallow"
ReplyDelete---
You could change your Nik to
"Wading Pond"
Well if aqua is goin' to increase his net worth by nuking Iran, I'll vote for your program, duece.
ReplyDeleteJr could use that extra grand each month.
A CHINAMAN! Well, I'll be Damned!
ReplyDeleteDon't see that often.
"Jihad for Mao!"
Amazin
You could feel the air go out of the TV networks.
ReplyDelete"Ah, Shit! A Fuckin Crazy Chinaman." Not a Muzzie in sight. Shit!"
"A general warning that there are bad people in the World, elijah?"
ReplyDeleteThe point is that if a person can snap (if this is the case) and cause such chaos;
Then how much more dangerous are peoples and their governments that chant Death to America, Death to Israel, parading Shahab-3 missiles with the same slogans?
Peoples who love death more than life.
Tonight...is it as you have both written; reconciliation or killing at ratios of 1:100?
Is that the perp, duece, you think?
ReplyDeleteHangin' at the range, at Quantico?
Posting quotes of Ann Coulter?
what's this link at PJM comments?
ReplyDeletehttp://wanusmaximus.livejournal.com/
Check this out
21 March 2007 @ 06:35 pm
ReplyDelete2.14.2007
"I'm glad we're making an effort to patch things up...sticking it out will only make this relationship stronger, right?"
Leave a comment
20 March 2007 @ 05:22 am
And so the cycling begins...
Me & Janice broke up...
Music: The Cardigans - Do you believe
i think the israeli model comes to mind...
ReplyDeletearm the teachers, the janitors and responsible citizens..
we are ALL CITIZENS with a DUTY
I cannot "blame" anyone except the shooter..
if there is a hell, may he join arafat and saddam..
My thoughts and prayers go to the living who's lives will be changed.
amazing how meaningless imus is?
Ann Coulter Incited him to do it.
ReplyDeleteRight Wing Hate Speech Should and will be banned.
PBUH
Imus is just the begining, Occupation.
ReplyDeleteMedia Matters is paid by Soros to moniter all programs at all hours.
Hillary will tolerate no unfair criticism!
Don't want to think about it
ReplyDeleteDon't want to talk about it
I'm just so sick about it
Can't believe it's ending this way
Just so confused about it
Feeling the blues about it
I just can't do without ya
Tell me is this fair?
Is this the way it's really going down?
Is this how we say goodbye?
Resentment is an emotion of anger felt as a result of a real or imagined wrong done. The English word has become synonymous with anger and bitterness.
It can be an emotionally disturbing experience that is being felt again or relived in the mind.
Sure is. The US has opted for reconciliation, here to date.
ReplyDeleteGotta go with the flow, or be unpatriotic.
Gotta back the Presidents' play:
I also want to speak tonight directly to Muslims throughout the world. We respect your faith. It's practiced freely by many millions of Americans, and by millions more in countries that America counts as friends. Its teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah. (Applause.) The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying, in effect, to hijack Islam itself. The enemy of America is not our many Muslim friends; it is not our many Arab friends. Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them.
...
After all that has just passed -- all the lives taken, and all the possibilities and hopes that died with them -- it is natural to wonder if America's future is one of fear. Some speak of an age of terror. I know there are struggles ahead, and dangers to face. But this country will define our times, not be defined by them. As long as the United States of America is determined and strong, this will not be an age of terror; this will be an age of liberty, here and across the world.
Be not afraid.
He's not the guy. He's a kid with a Facebook page and is a member of AR15.com. He is NOT the POI and has been accounted for.
ReplyDeleteThe guys on ARFCOM have checked in with him and he is alive, OK and has nothing to do with the shooting.
We had a chinese guy here pop over 'love'. Graduate student here. Felt some other guy was making his girl. Went to Wal-Mart, bought a Buck knife, cut the guy up, took the knife back to Wal-Mart for the refund money. Guilty, 1st degree murder. Last I heard they had shipped him back to China. Nice touch, that, getting the refund on the knife.
ReplyDelete12 April 2007 @ 09:57 am
ReplyDelete...to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer? Will you love her, honor her, comfort her, and keep her in sickness and in health; forsaking all others, be true to her until death do you part?
Brother,
ReplyDeletePut him in Preemptive Lockup!
His girlfriend is checking out of school as we write!
ReplyDeleteX girl friend.
ReplyDeleteI can't feature someone killing the girl and a prof in the morning, and then hanging around for two hours, and then going really, really bezerk. I'd think the guy would have run.
ReplyDeleteJesus, I'm sorry those kids got shot; but, we're losing a hundred, or so, of our best kids every month. If I'm going to spend any time grieving it will be for them.
ReplyDeleteEnough.
This deserves double billing:
ReplyDeletebobalharb said...
We had a chinese guy here pop over 'love'. Graduate student here. Felt some other guy was making his girl. Went to Wal-Mart, bought a Buck knife, cut the guy up, took the knife back to Wal-Mart for the refund money. Guilty, 1st degree murder. Last I heard they had shipped him back to China. Nice touch, that, getting the refund on the knife.
Mon Apr 16, 09:22:00 PM EDT
Bob, is giving Doug a run as wit emeritus, but we all love doug. Bob too, except Habu, he hates everyone, which is part of his charm. But then I am back in civilization and can buy and consume some decent wine.
At this stage, i love everyone even Hubu.
Every mile, a memory
ReplyDeletethat reminds me, I need to pick up my cleaning tomorrow...
ReplyDeleteSettle down, Deuce; we don't play that shit here.
ReplyDeleteI don't hate anyone!
ReplyDeleteHere's one for you to think of and thank, rufus, from Tucson
ReplyDeleteDamian Lopez Rodriguez, all of 19 years old.
Kid washed the knife off, but not well enough, they found blood on it. That was what really nailed him.
ReplyDeleteRufus loves everone else except generals, but gets grouchy and pays his bar tab late!
ReplyDeleteSEOUL, South Korea (Associated Press) -- South Korea may suspend rice shipments to North Korea to ratchet up pressure for it to comply with its nuclear disarmament pledges after it missed a deadline to shut a reactor, an official said Monday. A news report hours later said the North could be preparing for a shutdown.
ReplyDelete"We can't just ignore and do nothing if ... North Korea doesn't take initial steps" to disarm as agreed in February at six-nation nuclear talks, an unnamed South Korean official said, according to the Dong-a Ilbo newspaper. Other dailies carried similar reports.
Hey, the only time I wuz late was when I was sick from drinking that watered-down rotgut you been passing off as "Top-Shelf!"
ReplyDeleteAnd, I'd a been on-time then if I hadn't tripped and sprayned my ankle when I wuz startled by that Rat. I mean: I'm used to the rats; but, that one wuz bein eatin by the cockroaches.
THAT wuz startlin.
Anyway, PossumTater done give me the name of his lawyur and you'll be hering frum him, shortly.
ReplyDeleteMeantime, give me one of them Bud Lites. You cain't do that bottled beer any harm.
ReplyDeleteAnd, put it on my "Tab."
ReplyDeleteIffen you kin do it without padding it, that is.
aren't the NORKS a bit upset about the delays in getting their 25 million released? I hope their delays are just petulant reprisals for holding up ALL THAT MONEY...
ReplyDeleteAnd, by the way, don't the managemunt ever slug the juke box around here?
ReplyDeleteOther bars put out some ov them little cheesy fish things every now and then. Why dont cha'll aever do anything like that, huh?
From the NewsMax.com Staff
ReplyDeleteFor the story behind the story...
Tuesday, Feb. 10, 2004 10:25 p.m. EST
Gen. Giap: Kerry's Group Helped Hanoi Defeat U.S.
The North Vietnamese general in charge of the military campaign that finally drove the U.S. out of South Vietnam in 1975 credited a group led by Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry with helping him achieve victory.
In his 1985 memoir about the war, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap wrote that if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S. - according to Fox News Channel war historian Oliver North.
That's why, he predicted on Tuesday, the Vietnam War issue "is going to blow up in Kerry's face."
"People are going to remember Gen. Giap saying if it weren't for these guys [Kerry's group], we would have lost," North told radio host Sean Hannity.
"The Vietnam Veterans Against the War encouraged people to desert, encouraged people to mutiny - some used what they wrote to justify fragging officers," noted the former Marine lieutenant colonel, who earned two purple hearts in Vietnam.
"John Kerry has blood of American soldiers on his hands," North said.
The money was released, but the NorKs left it in the bank.
ReplyDeletemoney, money, money
N.Korea Leaves BDA Money Untouched
North Korea has left untouched US$25 million unfrozen in a Macau bank and offered no statement Monday after missing a Saturday deadline to shut down its nuclear facilities under a Feb. 13 six-nation agreement. Experts differ about the reason for Pyongyang’s reticence.
Some pundits expect the North to demand a foreign currency transaction account, which it is effectively denied under U.S. financial sanctions. Prof. Kim Hak-sung of Chungnam National University points out that the Stalinist regime cannot transfer the assets from the Banco Delta Asia to a bank in a third country; it can only withdraw the money in cash. He predicted the North will keep demanding the use of a legal account but eventually accept the U.S. solution.
But while looking for the above there was this:
Iran 'is seeking N Korea's nuclear expertise'
By Con Coughlin
Last Updated: 2:20am BST 17/04/2007
Iran and North Korea have appointed high-level delegations to deepen co-operation between the two countries on nuclear weapons technology, according to diplomatic sources in Beijing.
The countries are keen to seal a deal before North Korea starts to close its controversial Yongbyon reactor under the terms of an agreement with the United States and regional powers in February.
N. Korea's Yongbyon reactor
The Feb 13 accord was negotiated after North Korea conducted a successful test of a nuclear warhead at the end of last year. Following the international outcry that greeted the test, Pyongyang agreed to close the reactor in return for aid.
2164...
ReplyDeleteI love..
1. the smell of napalm in the morning
2. cordite
3. a nicely placed 7.64 at 800yds.
4. pecan pie
5. semtex
6. the sound of a knife on a whetstone
7. I'm a people person
8. boston creme pie
9. flyfishing
10. hiking in griz country
Feel the love.
This is an Interesting Take on Nouri al Maliki.
ReplyDeleteBecause you brought it up, Doug:
ReplyDeleteWesthawk begs off commentary or critique of Sheehan's piece - saying only that Rice and Hadley would disagree with the general.
But Sheehan's simply stating what has been stated by others, inside and out - and in doing so did the admin (and a lot of other people) a favor.
They are not ready for an implementation manager because they have no (agreed upon) strategy to implement. The NSA is already the executive coordinator, but there's nothing to coordinate. What neither Rice previously nor Hadley currently can do, neither can a newly created WH chair. At this time, that person would only end up being another cog in the wheel.
Find a strategy, let DoD and other departments figure our how they're going to achieve it with the guidance given, then put your NSA to work.
The WH is good at dictating tactics; not so good at dictating strategy. But the latter is their job.
(It was McCain, I believe who first came up with the idea of a "war czar." I guess someone bit on it.)
And, yeah, Sheehan could be considered for NSA in the next administration.
Going Up? Or, Going Down, Quickly?
ReplyDeleteSorry to offend your taste Rufus, but at this bar it is hard boiled eggs, slim jims and pickled lambs tounge.
ReplyDeleteSheehan's problem is that he wants to cut & run from Iraq, but the President wants to win. All the double talk about strategy is just to disguise his whining and quitting.
ReplyDelete"Sheehan said he believes that Vice President Cheney and his hawkish allies remain more powerful within the administration than pragmatists looking for a way out of Iraq. 'So rather than go over there, develop an ulcer and eventually leave, I said, "No, thanks." '
If he wanted to cut and run from Iraq, they wouldn't have interviewed him in the first place.
ReplyDeleteThis criminologist says that the killer was following a well known pattern:
ReplyDeletePremeditative and Selective
Jack Levin, a leading authority on mass killings and those who commit them, the story emerging out of Virginia already has many sadly familiar hallmarks...
NEWSWEEK: You’ve studied mass shootings for more than 20 years. What’s the first thing you think of when a story like this starts unfolding?
Jack Levin: I can talk in general terms about this and I’m probably going to be right. In almost every case the motive is revenge. Usually the killer is on a suicidal rampage—he sets out to take his own life but first he takes his revenge on all the people he believes to be responsible for his miseries. Usually the killer has suffered from some catastrophic loss; it could be a girlfriend, a loss of a place in the university—assuming he’s a student or faculty. Either way, in his eyes, it’s catastrophic. It’s the trigger, the catalyst, what pushes him over the edge...
Almost every one of these shootings is premeditative and selective. It’s very rare to see a mass killer in a school or workplace or family target random victims. He’ll more likely step around those he doesn’t see as part of the conspiracy. I bet that happens here. At the same time this looks like a family annihilation where a husband-father wants to get even with his wife because he blames her for all his misery, but does so by killing everything associated with her, everything she loved. I’ve seen things in [the] postal service, where [the attacker] will kill his supervisor, the one who laid him off, and then target everyone else at the post office. This killer may have been setting out to kill the college. I’d like to know who his first victim was.
I would imagine many younger people don’t also quite have the same sense of the value of life either.
There are teenagers I would call “temporary sociopaths.” They’ll commit a hideous act, such as the taking of human life with impunity, when they’re 16 or 19. They wouldn’t dream of doing the same thing when they’re 30
Here is the link to the article where Sheehan says he wants to cut and run. It's the same article the whole discussion is based on. Sheehan also says he never believed in fighting in Iraq in the first place. Many of his comments, like about sanctions hurting the Iraqi people, sound like something Ted Kennedy or netroots would say.
ReplyDeleteSheehan says he wants to cut and run
Article quotes in bold:
"I've never agreed on the basis of the war, and I'm still skeptical," Sheehan said. "Not only did we not plan properly for the war, we grossly underestimated the effect of sanctions and Saddam Hussein on the Iraqi people."...
There's the residue of the Cheney view -- 'We're going to win, al-Qaeda's there' -- that justifies anything we did," he said. "And then there's the pragmatist view -- how the hell do we get out of Dodge and survive? Unfortunately, the people with the former view are still in the positions of most influence." Sheehan said he wrote a note March 27 declining interest...
"The very fundamental issue is, they don't know where the hell they're going," said retired Marine Gen. John J. "Jack" Sheehan, a former top NATO commander who was among those rejecting the job. Sheehan said he believes that Vice President Cheney and his hawkish allies remain more powerful within the administration than pragmatists looking for a way out of Iraq. "So rather than go over there, develop an ulcer and eventually leave, I said, 'No, thanks,' " he said.
It's true that the White House wouldn't have interviewed Sheehan if they knew he wanted to cut and run. They wouldn't have interviewed him if they knew he was such a whiner. They wouldn't have interviewed him if they knew Sheehan had such rotten ethics that he was going to write attack articles about his interview.
"The very fundamental issue is, they don't know where the hell they're going," said retired Marine Gen. John J. "Jack" Sheehan,
ReplyDeleteAnd they don't.
There's no basic mission, wu.
ReplyDeleteIt is shocking. A Marine General who can't stand the idea of fighting Al Qaeda and winning, but instead wants us to figure out "how the hell do we get out of Dodge and survive?"
ReplyDeleteThere's the residue of the Cheney view -- 'We're going to win, al-Qaeda's there' -- that justifies anything we did," he said. "And then there's the pragmatist view -- how the hell do we get out of Dodge and survive?
The Bush Administration knows exactly what they are doing for strategy, democracy, and for tactics, winning by counter insurgency. General Cut & Run just doesn't agree with it. He throws out all the double talk because he doesn't want to say out loud "Give Iran and Syria whatever they want to get them to stop sponsoring terrorism. Cut a face saving deal where the enemy in Iraq ceases fire long enough for us to save face while retreating."
ReplyDelete"The Bush Administration knows exactly what they are doing for strategy, democracy, and for tactics, winning by counter insurgency. General Cut & Run just doesn't agree with it."
ReplyDeleteThen they can attempt to hire another retired general.
Confirmation is starting to build that the shooter was a jilted boy friend who began by shooting the girl friend or a female room mate, then killed an RA who investigated. That was before the second set of killings.
ReplyDeleteTwo persons -- one male and one female -- were found dead in a dorm room in West Ambler Johnston Hall, a co-ed dormitory that houses about 900 people, Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said.
The man was identified last night as Ryan Clark, 22, of Martinez, Ga., near Augusta, a resident assistant at the dorm.
Mr. Clark, who had been at the school since 2002, had completed his course work and was set to walk across the graduation stage next month with bachelor's degrees in psychology, biology and English, his twin brother said last night.
Massacre at Virginia Tech
Second hand story about shooting
ReplyDeleteAbove is a link to another blog, one which claims to have heard the story from a relative on campus. It says that a jilted boyfriend tried to confront his girl at her dorm. She was at class, and he ended up killing a room mate and resident assistant who investigated.
The killer supposedly later went to a class room building and shot students in several class rooms.
If it was up to me, there would be 55 Korean visa students traveling back to Korea in a casket today.
ReplyDelete