“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.” - George W. Bush

All The Best


I want to thank everyone who participated in the Elephant Bar over the past twelve years. We had millions of visitors from all around the World and you were part of it. Over the past dozen years, two or three times a night, I would open my laptop and some of you were always there. I will miss that.

My plans are to continue my work with technology and architecture. You know my interests and thoughts.

At times, things would get a little rough in the EB. To those of you that I may have offended over the years, I apologize. From all of you, I learned and grew.

An elephant never forgets.
Be well.

Deuce, 21 June 2018

Saturday, September 28, 2013

The pathetic, lying, cowardly propagandists in the disgraced US media, the comfort girls who service Barack Obama

Seymour Hersh on Obama, NSA and the pathetic' American media

Pulitzer Prize winner explains how to fix journalism, saying press should 'fire 90% of editors and promote ones you can't control'

Seymour Hersh has got some extreme ideas on how to fix journalism – close down the news bureaus of NBC and ABC, sack 90% of editors in publishing and get back to the fundamental job of journalists which, he says, is to be an outsider.
It doesn't take much to fire up Hersh, the investigative journalist who has been the nemesis of US presidents since the 1960s and who was once described by the Republican party as "the closest thing American journalism has to a terrorist".
He is angry about the timidity of journalists in America, their failure to challenge the White House and be an unpopular messenger of truth.
Don't even get him started on the New York Times which, he says, spends "so much more time carrying water for Obama than I ever thought they would" – or the death of Osama bin Laden. "Nothing's been done about that story, it's one big lie, not one word of it is true," he says of the dramatic US Navy Seals raid in 2011.
Hersh is writing a book about national security and has devoted a chapter to the bin Laden killing. He says a recent report put out by an "independent" Pakistani commission about life in the Abottabad compound in which Bin Laden was holed up would not stand up to scrutiny. "The Pakistanis put out a report, don't get me going on it. Let's put it this way, it was done with considerable American input. It's a bullshit report," he says hinting of revelations to come in his book.
The Obama administration lies systematically, he claims, yet none of the leviathans of American media, the TV networks or big print titles, challenge him.
"It's pathetic, they are more than obsequious, they are afraid to pick on this guy [Obama]," he declares in an interview with the Guardian.
"It used to be when you were in a situation when something very dramatic happened, the president and the minions around the president had control of the narrative, you would pretty much know they would do the best they could to tell the story straight. Now that doesn't happen any more. Now they take advantage of something like that and they work out how to re-elect the president.
He isn't even sure if the recent revelations about the depth and breadth of surveillance by the National Security Agency will have a lasting effect.
Snowden changed the debate on surveillance
He is certain that NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden "changed the whole nature of the debate" about surveillance. Hersh says he and other journalists had written about surveillance, but Snowden was significant because he provided documentary evidence – although he is sceptical about whether the revelations will change the US government's policy.
"Duncan Campbell [the British investigative journalist who broke the Zircon cover-up story], James Bamford [US journalist] and Julian Assange and me and the New Yorker, we've all written the notion there's constant surveillance, but he [Snowden] produced a document and that changed the whole nature of the debate, it's real now," Hersh says.
"Editors love documents. Chicken-shit editors who wouldn't touch stories like that, they love documents, so he changed the whole ball game," he adds, before qualifying his remarks.
"But I don't know if it's going to mean anything in the long [run] because the polls I see in America – the president can still say to voters 'al-Qaida, al-Qaida' and the public will vote two to one for this kind of surveillance, which is so idiotic," he says.
Holding court to a packed audience at City University in London's summer school on investigative journalism, 76-year-old Hersh is on full throttle, a whirlwind of amazing stories of how journalism used to be; how he exposed the My Lai massacre in Vietnam, how he got the Abu Ghraib pictures of American soldiers brutalising Iraqi prisoners, and what he thinks of Edward Snowden.
Hope of redemption
Despite his concern about the timidity of journalism he believes the trade still offers hope of redemption.
"I have this sort of heuristic view that journalism, we possibly offer hope because the world is clearly run by total nincompoops more than ever … Not that journalism is always wonderful, it's not, but at least we offer some way out, some integrity."
His story of how he uncovered the My Lai atrocity is one of old-fashioned shoe-leather journalism and doggedness. Back in 1969, he got a tip about a 26-year-old platoon leader, William Calley, who had been charged by the army with alleged mass murder.
Instead of picking up the phone to a press officer, he got into his car and started looking for him in the army camp of Fort Benning in Georgia, where he heard he had been detained. From door to door he searched the vast compound, sometimes blagging his way, marching up to the reception, slamming his fist on the table and shouting: "Sergeant, I want Calley out now."
Eventually his efforts paid off with his first story appearing in the St Louis Post-Despatch, which was then syndicated across America and eventually earned him the Pulitzer Prize. "I did five stories. I charged $100 for the first, by the end the [New York] Times were paying $5,000."
He was hired by the New York Times to follow up the Watergate scandal and ended up hounding Nixon over Cambodia. Almost 30 years later, Hersh made global headlines all over again with his exposure of the abuse of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib.
Put in the hours
For students of journalism his message is put the miles and the hours in. He knew about Abu Ghraib five months before he could write about it, having been tipped off by a senior Iraqi army officer who risked his own life by coming out of Baghdad to Damascus to tell him how prisoners had been writing to their families asking them to come and kill them because they had been "despoiled.
"I went five months looking for a document, because without a document, there's nothing there, it doesn't go anywhere."
Hersh returns to US president Barack Obama. He has said before that the confidence of the US press to challenge the US government collapsed post 9/11, but he is adamant that Obama is worse than Bush.
"Do you think Obama's been judged by any rational standards? Has Guantanamo closed? Is a war over? Is anyone paying any attention to Iraq? Is he seriously talking about going into Syria? We are not doing so well in the 80 wars we are in right now, what the hell does he want to go into another one for. What's going on [with journalists]?" he asks.
He says investigative journalism in the US is being killed by the crisis of confidence, lack of resources and a misguided notion of what the job entails.
"Too much of it seems to me is looking for prizes. It's journalism looking for the Pulitzer Prize," he adds. "It's a packaged journalism, so you pick a target like – I don't mean to diminish because anyone who does it works hard – but are railway crossings safe and stuff like that, that's a serious issue but there are other issues too.
"Like killing people, how does [Obama] get away with the drone programme, why aren't we doing more? How does he justify it? What's the intelligence? Why don't we find out how good or bad this policy is? Why do newspapers constantly cite the two or three groups that monitor drone killings. Why don't we do our own work?
"Our job is to find out ourselves, our job is not just to say – here's a debate' our job is to go beyond the debate and find out who's right and who's wrong about issues. That doesn't happen enough. It costs money, it costs time, it jeopardises, it raises risks. There are some people – the New York Times still has investigative journalists but they do much more of carrying water for the president than I ever thought they would … it's like you don't dare be an outsider any more."
He says in some ways President George Bush's administration was easier to write about. "The Bush era, I felt it was much easier to be critical than it is [of] Obama. Much more difficult in the Obama era," he said.
Asked what the solution is Hersh warms to his theme that most editors are pusillanimous and should be fired.
"I'll tell you the solution, get rid of 90% of the editors that now exist and start promoting editors that you can't control," he says. I saw it in the New York Times, I see people who get promoted are the ones on the desk who are more amenable to the publisher and what the senior editors want and the trouble makers don't get promoted. Start promoting better people who look you in the eye and say 'I don't care what you say'.
Nor does he understand why the Washington Post held back on the Snowden files until it learned the Guardian was about to publish.
If Hersh was in charge of US Media Inc, his scorched earth policy wouldn't stop with newspapers.
"I would close down the news bureaus of the networks and let's start all over, tabula rasa. The majors, NBCs, ABCs, they won't like this – just do something different, do something that gets people mad at you, that's what we're supposed to be doing," he says.
Hersh is currently on a break from reporting, working on a book which undoubtedly will make for uncomfortable reading for both Bush and Obama.
"The republic's in trouble, we lie about everything, lying has become the staple." And he implores journalists to do something about it.



  1. The 2008 video of Naomi Klein foretold of the inevitability of the relationship between Obama and his cheerleaders.

  2. “If you have proven your a doormat, you will get stomped on.”

  3. Well, the American people have a least taken a stab at calling a timeout on the “bullshit” in Syria and Obama is talking to Iran. We will see how he handles the bullshit artist, Bibi Netanyahu come Monday.

    King Bibi, the Israeli-firsters and the Apacistanis are in shock and awe at the horrific view of their propaganda machine being shunted by people grown weary of the war-mongering and clamour for more military aid and more Israeli demands for US wars and US backing of Israel in the Middle East.

    Israel has been flooding the world social media with a concerted theme and second rate propaganda message about the Boogie Man in Tehran.

    It isn’t working this time. Haaretz has noticed:

    And how has Israel responded to this rhetoric? Israel has created fake Twitter and LinkedIn profiles for “the real Rohani.” Israel is paying hundreds of employs to sit and bang away at their keyboards in a new hasbara social media combat unit. Israel came to the conference without a functioning foreign minister, because it doesn’t have one – they’re holding the portfolio for Avigdor Lieberman, who is under investigation for official corruption. Instead Israel sent Strategic and Intelligence Affairs Minister Yuval Steinitz. And what did Steinitz have to say about Rohani’s speech? That it was a “charade.” He said this of course after not hearing the speech – as the prime minister ordered him and the rest of the Israeli delegation to leave the room before it started.

    Later the prime minister defended this hapless decision by claiming that the speech was “cynical and full of hypocrisy,” and immediately added claims of Iran denying the Holocaust and developing a nuclear reactor to destroy Israel, even though Rohani did not deny the Holocaust, and declared that their nuclear reactors are peaceful. In fact, Rohani did not even mention Israel, or even the “Zionist cancer” that his predecessor liked to talk about so much. Is it possible to know if he really meant what he said? No, it’s not. It’s also possible that Rohani is walking a tightrope with the Ayatollahs, as he really is only a puppet, with the Ayatollahs pulling the strings.

    So what’s the problem? Why can’t Israel play the game as well? Why not incorporate new rhetoric of hope of our own? What’s to lose? How can it hurt Israel’s position? All it can do strengthen it. It’s not an issue of innocence, like some might say, but rather it would be the model of a game-changing move. “Speak softly but carry a big stick,” they’ve been reciting Theodore Roosevelt at us for a hundred years. No one is asking Israel to give up its stealth bombers, midair refueling jets or smart bombs.

    What have we become? What’s all this fear? How is it that our brilliant ambassador and hasbara people have us standing in the corner, sticking our tongue out like the rejected child? It’s scary to think about what their next act in this game might be. Maybe Netanyahu plans to stand up on the podium and tear up a copy of Rohani's speech, in a macabre imitation of Haim Herzog, when he tore of the UN resolution that equated Zionism with Racism. Oops. I hope I didn’t just give him an idea.

    1. The truth is out, we now have yet another reference to quot on the blog ...
      The reason that his biography is inconsistent.

      Israel is paying hundreds of employs to sit and bang away at their keyboards in a new hasbara social media combat unit.

      When they are given their daily assignments, occasionally they forget to read their character's bio-sheet.
      When "O"riginal takes a day off, his replacement slip slides on the assignment.

      It explains so, so much about him.


    2. Man oh man, we are treated to it on an almost daily basis....
      How is it that our brilliant ambassador and hasbara people have us standing in the corner, sticking our tongue out like the rejected child?

      The news has "Come to Life" right in front of our eyes!

  4. Let’s send drone of our own over Aipacistan and see what marching orders have been posted on the company bulletin board:


    * GOP Senators Urge Obama to Escalate Pressure on Iran

    * Lawmakers Remain Doubtful of Rouhani after U.N. Speech

    * Senators to Kerry: Protect Israel at U.N.

    * Legislators Call on Iran to Release Former Marine

    * Senators to Obama: Judge Iran by Its Actions

    * State Department Condemns Palestinian Killing of Israeli Soldiers

    They have just begun to fight with fright.

    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

    2. The are in a Fight or Fight moment.

      Their hearts and collective soul of Israel calls upon them to follow the example of Israel's mythic past, and commit suicide.
      Onward from Masada!

      The economic refugees, the immigrants now in Israel from Russia, they have one response to the government of the state of Israel ...

      NYET to that!

    3. The Israeli speaks!

      But do not defend or deny Israel's complicity in genocide!

      Moving, instead, directly to implementation of
      The Hegelian Dialectic

  5. Too bad about the timing.

    The Conga Line seems to be otherwise in a twist.

    It will take some major international incident to get some attention back to Job One.

    Keep watching.


    * GOP Senators Urge Obama to Escalate Pressure on Iran

    * Lawmakers Remain Doubtful of Rouhani after U.N. Speech

    * Senators to Kerry: Protect Israel at U.N.

    * Legislators Call on Iran to Release Former Marine

    * Senators to Obama: Judge Iran by Its Actions

    * State Department Condemns Palestinian Killing of Israeli Soldiers

    There is not a thing wrong with any of these items, except they don't go far enough.


    1. But no one sane would disagree that most of the media is really really screwed up, yup, very badly screwed up.

    2. Judging Iran by its actions ...

      The new regime is releasing the political prisoners arrested by the last regime.

      That's the action demanding judgement.
      The new regime respects the UN, calling for complete compliance with UN Resolution 34/89.

      Facts are facts
      AIPAC deals in promoting fantasy, fear and paranoia.

  7. Only 12% of the working-age uninsured are aware that Obamacare enrollment starts on Oct. 1st.

    Simply Amazin'

  8. Unca 'hani is nice -

    Dangerous Times: Nobody Can Deny Violent Islam

    No one can deny the nature of jihad after last week's horrors in Kenya were broadcast around the world. Everybody who saw the brutal Nairobi mall killings gets it. But our profoundly corrupt and Muslim-penetrated media and political class will keep denying those horrors. British PM David Cameron just made the usual nauseating pronouncement that "Islam means peace."

    The ruling classes in the West were able to twist and cover up the truth after 9/11. They are desperate to peddle denial, because they are deeply afraid that popular outrage will destroy their power. Hillary hired a Muslim Brotherhood loyalist, Huma Abedin, as her top aide. Our political/media class is therefore completely invested in covering up a clear and present danger. They must therefore be defeated in the next election.

    Hassan Rouhani's "Big Smile" offensive in New York this week is a perfect demonstration of the double-talk of Islamic war.***** Rouhani is the killer who oversaw the truck bombing of the U.S. Marine Lebanon barracks in 1983, killing 299 young U.S. and French peacekeeping troops*****. Killer Rouhani was greeted with a wave of favorable publicity by the New York Times this week. Muslims like Rouhani will stab you to the heart with a smile. It is their doctrine. You can watch them laughing today because they know they are winning.

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/09/nobody_can_deny_violent_islam.html#ixzz2gBoYriNP

    1. .***** Rouhani is the killer who oversaw the truck bombing of the U.S. Marine Lebanon barracks in 1983, killing 299 young U.S. and French peacekeeping troops*****.

    2. The retard, Reagan, put those troops over there in the middle of a war with inadequate (no) security. Rouhani was just doing his job.

      Reagan, and his idiot neocons, and generals killed those Marines.

    3. We can all agree Rufus is really really screwed up, yup, really screwed up.

      Honestly, Rufus, "Rouhani was just doing his job".


      Hell of a job description.

      As for Reagan I suppose he assumed the Marines knew how to provide their own security.

      It broke bad as the saying is these days but you are getting your characterizations ass backwards.

    4. No, YOU don't know what the fuck you're talking about - as usual.

      Even after the bombing, the Marines were sitting in bunkers WITH NO FUCKING AMMO FOR THEIR WEAPONS awaiting the next attack. Those orders came directly from the Pentagon.

    5. No, Anonymous no one else agrees.

      There is just you and the robo-typists in Israel.
      You know him as quot.

      The on again, off again Israeli passport holder.

    6. The Israeli spak, bu do not address a single issue raised

      Instead ...

      The Hegelian Dialectic

  9. Look at this, and 'splain to me why Ford can build a natural gas-fueled truck (which no one will buy,) but no one will build an E85-optimized pickup for this market.

    Iowa Prices

    1. Cause people like pickup trucks with some muscle?

    2. Another fucking idiot reply. Due to its 114 Octane Rating, Ethanol produces more HP than gasoline, even in non-optimized engines.

    3. In high-compression engines ethanol delivers incredible horsepower.

      Just keep sucking on that Saudi gasoline nozzle, moron.

    4. Some Anonymous typists ...

      Facts just do not sway opinion, when they haven't got a brain.

      Farmer Fudd or "Scarecrow"?

      Guess it's back to the Editorial Board

    5. Anonymous, our Farmer Fudd ...

      He shows his true nature.
      Must be a Muslim , advocating Wahhabi economic interests above those of the United States.

    6. The Israeli speak, bu do not address a single issue raised

      Instead ...

      The Hegelian Dialectic

  10. AnonymousSat Sep 28, 08:28:00 AM EDT
    .***** Rouhani is the killer who oversaw the truck bombing of the U.S. Marine Lebanon barracks in 1983, killing 299 young U.S. and French peacekeeping troops*****.


    I wonder what the boys from Macungie ( foremer Millersville) Pa would do if young foreign peacekeeping tropps were barracked up in say Trenton, New Jersey?

    Washington ordered Edward Hand’s Pennsylvania Riflemen and a battalion of German-speaking infantry to block the road that led to Princeton. They attacked the Hessian outpost there. Wiederholdt soon realized that this was more than a raiding party; seeing other Hessians retreating from the outpost, he led his men to do the same. Both Hessian detachments made organized retreats, firing as they fell back. On the high ground at the north end of Trenton, they were joined by a duty company from the Lossberg Regiment.They engaged the Americans, retreating slowly, keeping up continuous fire and using houses for cover. Once in Trenton, they gained covering fire from other Hessian guard companies on the outskirts of the town. Another guard company nearer to the Delaware River rushed east to their aid, leaving open the River Road into Trenton. Washington ordered the escape route to Princeton be cut off, sending infantry in battle formation to block it, while artillery formed at the head of King and Queen streets.

    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

    2. The Israeli speak, but do not,they cannot reference their answer to a historical reality.

      Lebanon is, always was a part of Syria, prior to map drawing by the hegemonic Europeons
      Just as Israel was a part of Palestine, prior to map drawing by the hegemonic Europeons.

      They will never blame the hegemonic Europeons.

      Is that are part of Saul's teaching or is it
      The Hegelian Dialectic

  11. Edward Hand - George Washington and “the real Rouhani” - brothers in objecting to foreign peacekeeping troops.

    1. :)

      Well, whatever you say.

      If you want to compare Unca George to a Shiite fanatic it's all right with me.

      I think most people would find it a little silly, maybe even a little befuddledly insane.

      You might get some support from SHITFULL.

  12. I really don't get the similarity.

    But Unca 'hani is nice. He was just doing his job when he killed as those people.

    If I were a Christian in Lebanon I think I'd celebrate the arrival of some peace keepers. If you recall back in the 50's, the Danny Thomas days, Lebanon wasn't so fucked up as it is now. The people there shared the government more or less peacefully in those days.

    1. You're stupider than a fucking zucchini patch.

    2. You're stupider than a fucking watermelon.

    3. If Anonymous had a brain implant, he could compete with a gnat.
      As it is ...

      He provides comic relief.

  13. This may come as a shock to you, but people with working brains behave in fairly predictable patterns. It is only the culturally, morally and racial religionists that distinguish themselves at being above the fray.

    One of the more unremarkable human responses to foreign invasions is retaliation and resistance.

  14. Another is that xenophobes, segregationists, practitioners of exclusion and apartheid as well as cultural triumphalists almost always never see the similarities.

  15. The US Army in the wrong place at the wrong time was the best recruiting agency ever in convincing young farm boys to join the Viet Cong. That surprises you?

    1. There is not one of the above three that fits the situation.

      Who is it exactly that is threatening to blow other people off the face of the earth?

      Whose theology is it that demands war until the entire world is enslaved in an insanity?

    2. Where is your proof? More people are killed annually on the streets of Philadelphia than all the Americans killed by foreign terrorists since 911. Compare that to the numbers killed and injured by US wars since 911.

    3. No, you misresperent what is written, again

      It is not desert rat that describes abortion as murder.

      It is the Cheif Rabbinate of Israel that tell the world ...

      The state of Israel MURDERS 20,000 Jews every year.
      That the state of Israel accounts for the MURDER of 250,000 Jews in the 21t century.

      That is what the Chief Rabbinate of Israel says in regards to abortion ...

      desert rat only uses the Chief Rabbinate's perspective when comparing Israel to A. Hitler's Germany.

      Believing that the Chief Rabbinate of Israel knows Judaism.
      What qualifies a person to be a Jew, that can be MURDERED.
      ....and we all know of the atrocities committed against Jews, Gypsies and mental incompetents, by A. Hitler.

      Hitler, the fella that quot told us was "right"..

  16. DUBAI, Sept 28 (Reuters) - Hundreds of Iranians cheered President Hassan Rouhani on his return from New York on Saturday after his historic phone call with U.S. President Barack Obama but a smaller number of hardliners shouted "Death to America" and threw eggs and shoes at his official car leaving the airport, Iranian media reported.

    They have the "hard-liners;" we have the alfalfa farmers/tea partiers/AIPACers.

    It's not easy trying to be rational.

  17. "Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain and his wife wave to cheering crowds at 10 Downing Street after Chamberlain’s return from the Munich Conference on September 30, 1938"


    Indeed, "it's not easy trying to be rational."

    As to human predictability, read any of the noted behavioral economists to deflate any such notion. Classic economics modeled itself on the assumption that humans were rational and would always work to maximize self-interest. It just ain't so.

  18. I would say that the "Chamberlain-like character, here, would be Hassan Rouhani. In 1938 Germany was the aggressor; in 2013 that mantle would fall on the United States.

    1. You're stupider than a fucking mushroom.

    2. From 1812 onward the Bris and the US have been maipulting Iran.

      Those folk have said ...

      "Enough of that Bull Shit"

      They are fighting against foreig influence in their lands.

      It is not anything more than that.
      Religion provides them with a rallying point.

      Look how effective that tactic has been for Israel.
      They pretend to be Jewish, it has worked like a charm, on ignorant fools like Anonymous.

  19. "How horrible, fantastic, incredible it is that we should be digging trenches and trying on gas-masks here because of a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing. It seems still more impossible that a quarrel which has already been settled in principle should be the subject of war."

    "This morning I had another talk with the German Chancellor, Herr Hitler, and here is the paper which bears his name upon it as well as mine.... We regard the agreement signed last night and the Anglo-German Naval Agreement, as symbolic of the desire of our two peoples never to go to war with one another again." (Exactly eleven (11) months later, Germany would invade Poland.)

    "No doubt the Jews aren't a lovable people; I don't care about them myself; but that is not sufficient to explain the Pogrom."

    ___N. Chamberlain

    1. No doubt the Israeli are not a lovable people ...

      The are complicit in the genocide in Guatemala
      They practice apartheid in Palestine
      They refuse to join the community of nations by refusing, as they do, to implement UN Resolution 34/89

      They are the people our Founding Fathers warned US about.

  20. "To the chancellor of the German Reich, Herr A. Hitler.
    I thank you for your letter. I hope that the German-Soviet Nonaggression Pact will mark a decisive turn for the better in the political relations between our two countries.

    J. Stalin*"

    Poland would find the Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact much less agreeable, as would the Soviet less than two years later.

  21. We were pretty pleased with Khaddafi, him giving up his nuclear weapons program, and all.

    Until we killed him.

  22. Rhetoric, and Slogans, aside, I don't remember Iran committing any "Shock and Awe" on anyone, lately

    (by lately I mean "since, somewhere before the birth of Jesus Christ.")

    1. I am so happy that you have come to agree tha Israel was complicit in an actual, real life genocide.

      Providing terror groups with hundreds of thousands of rockets, cash training and sanctuary to do their crimes against humanity.

      The Israeli provided all that and more to the Guatemalan military

      By the quot standard the Israeli stand convicted of crimes against humanity.

      It won't be the "End of Story"

      Now they will implement ...
      The Hegelian Dialectic

  23. It is a far wider stretch to compare Hitler, the Nazis and post war Germany with Rouhani and the Iranians than it is to compare the European settled apartheid state of South Africa with the apartheid state of European settled, post 1967 war, Israeli controlled territories.

  24. The CIA and Eisenhower Administration interfered with the Iranian evolution to a democratic state in 1953. No such aggression ever occurred to the US. Inept US foreign policy post WWII had a heavy hand in the direct and indirect creation and support of Islamist terrorism. US bible thumpers and the Reagan Administration armed and supported the precursor to Al Qaeda and international and cultural illiterates like John McCain still support al Qaeda.

    Iran was helping us against al Qaeda and the Taliban.

  25. The Saudis and everything they represent is the fountainhead of violent Islamism. The Israelis are only extras in the Saudi directed and controlled Middle Eastern Theatre. The US thought that Iran could be hoisted to balance Saudi power and influence but the Iranians thought otherwise.

    1. Even allen is proud of the Israeli/Saudi Axis

      Talk about emulating the short sightedness of the British in 1938.

      Bibi will be the Neville Chamberlain of Israel, getting into bed with the Saudi Arabians.

      It is beyond comical, it is a tragedy.

      Fueled by fear and paranoia, the Israeli have lost sight of the forest, for the trees.

      They have been down for so long, it looks like up to them

  26. We overthrew the Democratically elected government of Iran for one reason; it had the chutzpah to form its own national oil company.

    Every action, every life lost, every dollar pissed away (by our side) in the middleeast is "about the oil."

    Foreign policy "of, by, and for" Exxon.

  27. If any nation in the modern Middle East is to berealisticly compared to A. Hitler's Germany, it is Israel.

    Why have they refused to implement UN Resolution 34/89?
    Why does Israel refuse to allow nuclear inspectors from the IAEA access?

    The Iranians will allow it
    Why does Israel not subscribe to the global standard?

    Why does the United States allow one standard for Israel, while demanding another for all the others?

    Israel was complicit in the genocide in Guatemala, what genocide has Iran been complicit in?
    Why are the Israeli not held to account for their participation in genocide!

    1. I think Rouhani's trump card will be something connected to Israel's nuclear program.

    2. So, do I think Rouhani is probably just stalling? Yep.

      Do I give a rat's ass? Nope. :)

    3. Rouhani went to the UN ...

      Called for a Nuclear Free Zone in the Middle East.

      Seems like a good idea to me.
      Ronald Reagan and Dwight D. Eisenhower both supported nuclear disarmament.

      To not do so,,,

  28. Dwight D. EisenhowerSat Sep 28, 11:44:00 AM EDT

    But of course ..

    Disarmament, with mutual honor and confidence, is a continuing imperative.

    1. As I said in 1985....
      We seek the total elimination one day of nuclear weapons from the face of the Earth

      We know that ...
      .Peace is not absence of conflict, it is the ability to handle conflict by peaceful means.

      Ike's right ...

      Trust but Verify!

      We must... "Endeavour to persevere"!

      That Clint, he is one heck of a movie maker,,
      Not much for political speeches, though, even with his experience as the mayor in Carmel.

    2. Clint, he should have had a script for the bit he did at the GOP convention.

      He never had done "Stand Up" comedy before that.
      To try it for the first time and not have a script ...

      Well, I like Clint, but ...

  29. Desert rat said, "Even allen is proud of the Israeli/Saudi Axis..."


    1. Two days ago, amigo.

      Youwere lauding Israel's alliance with the Saudi.
      No treaty, es verdad, but Israel does not have a Treaty with US, either.

      When I agreed, calling it an Axis, you did not demur.

      You verified by acquiescence..


    2. "You verified by acquiescence.".

      Maybe he was taking a crap?

      Maybe he decided you weren't worth reading?

      SHITFULL is stupider than a rutabaga.

    3. Is that Farmer Fudd ...

      Or his Scarecrow?

  30. Rufus is stupider than a rutabaga.


  31. "allen Thu Sep 26, 08:21:00 PM EDT

    Libya is a failed state, if "state" is even applicable.

    Egypt is a failed state that has not recognized its plight. It's strategic reserves of foodstuffs can be measured in days; it has vehicle fuel sufficient for about a month, assuming no war.

    Syria is history.

    Lebanon is a failed state, incapable of maintaining order within its own borders.

    Jordan is quiescent.

    Saudi Arabia is now the de facto ally of Israel, both having an interest in dehorning Iran.

    Israel now has the time and opportunity to concentrate on Hezbollah. With Hezbollah bogged down in Syria, its potential for mischief is greatly reduced as are its reserves.

    Yes, it is a beautiful day in the neighborhood. :-)"

    1. Saudi Arabia is now the de facto ally of Israel

      Exemplifying that even Allen acknowledges the Israel/Saudi Axis...
      The de facto allience of Saudi Arabi and israel.

      So says allen, so say we all.

      We have ..

      Endeavored to persevere!.

    2. The only quible i could see ...
      I used the word "proud" ...

      Given the context, the prior repartee, it seemed to me that Allen was proud of the foreign policy successes that the Israeli had obtained. If i was mistaken in my perception and Allen is not proud of those Israeli successes, I do accept responsibility and would apologize for any damage done to Allen's reputation by my remark.

    3. The Egyptian fuel supply, directly tied to the Saudi, since Egypt no longer is self sufficient in petroleum and has not developed a ethanol program to replace its domestic oil production shortfalls.

      The Israel/Saudi Axis, illustrated again.
      To solidify Israeli security, the Saudis have taken all possibility of an external fight out of Egypt.
      de facto.

      Happenstance, coincidence or just plain "Lucky"

    4. Henry A. KissingerSat Sep 28, 01:37:00 PM EDT

      You can't make war in the Middle East without Egypt and you can't make peace without Syria.

    5. It has been a long time coming, but the long term perseverance of US foreign policy is paying off.
      Not taking our eye off the real prize, not for a moment in the past forty years, is paying off now.

      Nuclear disarmament, a Middle Eastern Nuclear Free Zone, secured from the horror of sectarian conflict and nuclear annihilation has never been closer. The alliance of Saudi Arabia and Israel proves that the sectarian divide can be bridged.. That ancient animosities can be buried, as long as all sides can agree to a basic standard, one that applies to all sides, a single standard for all. A demand that everyone involved be able to

      Trust but Verify

      We can build that!

      The fruit is ripening on the vine.

      All that has to be done is to bring in the harvest

    6. SHITFULL likes fancy words like 'axis'.

      Also ''arc of instability'.

      Thinks it adds something to his drivel.

    7. I think Shitfull only has one "L" "Shitful"

  32. Well, it looks like "shutdown it is."

  33. .

    Nazis and Hitler and Vegetables, oh my.

    From today's commentary it appears everyone posting today is one, the other, or a combination of the three.

    Now, we also hear that sins of omission are noted, in this case not coming out and specifically denying some dumb ass statement by another poster.

    And finally the ultimate declamation from every cheap ass politician inhabiting OZ,

    To not do so,,,

    This place is truly fucked up.



    1. And proud of it!

      (Rufus threw the first vegetable)

    2. It would seem, Q, that you are having difficulty seeing in depth.
      You only observe the surface.

      There are U-boats loaded with sarcasm, irony and mirth out there.

    3. Yeah, Q, you'll have to get one of those decoder rings, so you can read between the lines, too!

    4. Yeah Q......you be just surfing while the real action is in the depths.

    5. .

      You are probably right, rat. I don't get it.

      To me, calling someone Hitler or a Nazi is a pitiful attempt at argument. Humorous? I don't get it.

      Un-American? Slime-ball pols have been calling people un-American since the 19th Century, Joe McCarthy to Nancy Pelosi to Herman Cain there is a long line of the assholes. Funny? I don't get it.

      Read between the lines? In other words, just consider all your posts as bullshit. That I get it.

      As for Anonymous, I still prefer to surf rather than sink to the depths you inhabit.

      Subtle, sarcasm, irony, mirth? Anybody that could read today's dropping from you guys and smile has a truly weird fucking sense of humor.

      Kind of like watching a cat get run over by a car.


      Sorry, I don't get it.


    6. Well, Q, I agree with you about A. Hitler.

      But it is part of the handbook.

      Used against Assad,
      Used against Saddam
      Used against the Shah
      Used against Radovan Karadžić

      The comparisons of the Nazi to Islam are part of a constant theme.played over and over...

      Anti-American, as with you I find the term to be nonsensical.
      America is geography, a land of great breadth and scope.

      Who would stand against such a place, populated by a polyglot of peoples from the four corners of the world.

      Yes, in many respects, because of that .. ...
      We ARE the world.

      Kind of metaphorically speaking.

      The government in Washington DC, represents some of the people, some of the time.

      It may reign over the land, but it is not the land, it is not the country.

      It is a group of people who, for the most part, seem unsuited for leadership
      But there they are.

      They are not America, to stand against them of their policies, not unAmerican.
      When others use the word, I chuckle over the inanity, when i use it, it is with mirth.

  34. Hobble Egypt, destroy Syria, Henry Kissinger knew what needed to be done to secure Israel.

    It just took a long time to get the pieces lined up.
    To make everyone else think they were chess master playing with country bumpkins.

    While they were playing chess, the US was building aircraft carriers, stealth bombers and stockpiling over 5,000 nuclear weapons that can be delivered with pinpoint accuracy.

    The trouble, as seems consistent ...

    Not knowing how to acknowledge successes, let alone victory.

  35. If OZ cannot be trusted, why the euphoric optimism over a phone call?

    As to Stalin, Chamberlain, and Hitler, the Iranians, and Obama, the sole point was to rein in the joy unspeakable by pointing out the duplicity of diplomacy, which, as von Clausewitz pointed out, is just war by another name - "A conqueror is always a lover of peace.".

    1. Which is why we in the United States strive so to be the foremost proponents of Peace, let alone prosperity.

      "A conqueror is always a lover of peace."

      See what free flowing exchange of ideas in moderation leads to ...


  36. This comment has been removed by the author.

  37. As noted in earlier threads, the Libyan episode providing an opportunity for Saudi Arabia to gain the market share previously controlled by Colonel Q

    Those monetary gains then transferred to the transitional government of Egypt to fund operations.

    Success through preparation, or just "Lucky"

  38. The short telephone conversation between US President Barack Obama and Iranian President Hassan Rouhani on Friday may or may not lead to a successful diplomatic resolution of US-Iranian conflicts, especially over Tehran’s nuclear enrichment program. But if it does, how will the hawks in Washington survive?

    The US is an unusually war-like country. Since 1963 it has launched a military action on average every 40 months. It is to the extent that the US is still at war in Afghanistan after 12 years, and many Americans may not even realize it.

    Washington hawks always have a war queue, knowing that their campaign supporters in the war industries expect it of them. Iraq was in the war queue in the 1990s. Since the fall of Baghdad in 2003, Iran has been the number one state in the war queue. This is so even though Iran is not a superpower or even a regional power. It hasn’t invaded another country in at least a century and a half. Its annual military budget is on the order of Singapore and Norway. It has a population slightly larger than France.

    The point of having an enemies’ list is only in part in order to curb an enemy. It serves to scare the public and rally them around the politicians and make them willing to give up personal liberties or forget about being upset at being ruled on behalf of a handful of large corporations.

    Putting a country in the war queue requires demonizing its leader, twisting his words to make him seem aggressive, and exaggerating his capabilities versus the US. Even Nikita Khrushchev, who denounced Stalin’s crimes, was depicted in the US as a menace who pledged, “We will bury you!” What Khrushchev actually had said was, “We’ll still be here when your capitalist system is dead and buried.” He was wrong but he wasn’t threatening to bury anyone. The Soviet Union’s economy was never more than half that of the US, and its military was no match for the American, but Americans were taught to be mortally afraid of the Soviets, what with their challenge to … gasp … the supremacy of private property.

    Likewise, former Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s quotation of an old statement by Ruhollah Khomeini that “The occupation regime over Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time” — a hope that Zionism would collapse the way Communism had in 1991, was transformed by American “journalism” into an aggressive threat to wipe Israel off the map. This, despite repeated Iranian assertions that they had a no first strike policy, and that they would never slaughter noncombatants, and despite the laughable character of the proposition that a weak country very distant from Israel could menace it despite Tel Aviv’s stockpile of hundreds of nuclear weapons, and its poison gas and other weapons capabilities. Iran does not have an atomic bomb or chemical weapons.


    1. References please.
      When, where, and who were these civilians that were kidnapped?

    2. Once again, the rat demands proof!!!

      No proof is good enough for him.

      Simply google it you lazy asshole...

    3. Iran has helped kidnap jewish civilians all over the globe. Also murder them.

      Rat tries the johnny cochran defense, if the glove doesnt fit you must acquit.

      reality says otherwise.

      From blowing up Jewish community centers, to kidnapping American FBI agents, Preachers, News reporters, Israelis the reality is clear.

      But the Rat seeks specific case files.

      GO fuck yourself rodent.

      We KNOW the truth...

      Iran is a terror supporting nation.

      We could review Iran's record of kidnapping and murder in Iraq...

      Or lebanon and syria and Qatar...

      But that is the game the rodent plays..

      Fuck you...

  39. {…}

    The significance of Friday’s phone call is that Iran may be removed from the war queue. Current president Hassan Rouhani is harder to demonize than his quirky, populist predecessor. Twenty years of breathless allegations that Iran is 6 months from having an atomic bomb have raised questions about why the Israelis and the American hawks keep being wrong (not to mention, why the kettle is calling the oven black– Israel and the US are nuclear powers but Iran is not).

    The Israeli hawks have been promoting Iran as among the top challenges to the West since the early 1990s, aware that the loss of the Soviet Union and then Iraq left them nothing with which to frighten the American public. The Israel lobbies are horrified that they might now lose the Iran bogeyman. Likewise, the US war industries that back right wing senators and congressional representatives are putting their sock puppets such as Lindsey Graham up to seeking authorization for a war on Iran.

    The unacknowledged elephant in the room is that Iran was queued because of petroleum, and to a lesser extent because it is among the few remaining rejectionist states toward Israel. But as the US moves to wind and solar electricity and electric and hybrid plug-in cars, petroleum’s value will plummet over the next 20 years. The US is going to be energy independent in 20-30 years, but not via fracked gas and oil, which are relatively expensive. Oil certainly won’t be worth going to war over. The Congressional refusal to authorize a strike on Syria is the writing on the wall here.

    Some hawks want to put China in the war queue as a booby prize, but China is a tough sell. It has a nuclear arsenal and so the US can’t just go to war with it. US-China trade is huge and the US needs China. What would Walmart sell if it couldn’t load up on the products of Communist China? Even just alienating Beijing by talking about it as an enemy is difficult in today’s world.

    Without a demonized enemy number 1, how will hawks win election campaigns? How will they scare the public into letting them suspend the constitution and our civil liberties? How will they convince the public to let Congress spend billions on their industrial cronies? Maybe they won’t be able to.

    1. Bwahahahahahabwabwabwabwbabwahahahaha

      Listen to SHITFULL there, ha, ha, he don't shit about the Hegelian 'dialectic'.

    2. Desert Rat, the guy who rejects Israel having a right to be a Jewish state or nation.

      Rejects Jewish nationalism all the while supporting arab nationalism, american nationalism, russian, french and sudanise nationalism.

      Only the Jews have no rights for national liberation ala the Rat.

      What that is? An anti-semite

      Anyone who advocates the destruction of the Jewish State is Israel is by very definition? a fascist, nazi, anti-semite. Pick the label you wish. It doesnt matter.

      It just proves he is an ENEMY of the jewish people and as such? Not a source for Jewish principals, rights or history.

    3. what the desert rat does or does not ...

      Does not matter a lick.

      What does matter is that the state of Israel is complicit in genocide.
      Guilty of human rights violations by the standard expressed by the AIPAC clown, in this very thread.
      Causing multiple emotional rants to emerge.

      quot set the standard and now runs from it
      Wanting now to talk about the desert rt, not genocide.

      The only one who is concerned about what the desert rat thinks, is the quot.

      But the quot will not stand to the issues of government and war, he wants to employ
      The Hegelian Dialectic

      The Dimwitted Duo that just keep on throwing softballs.

    4. If a nation arms those that commit crimes to include genocide, that nation is guilty of crimes against humanity.

      That is the quot standard that was set for Iran
      He demands that Israel be held to the same standard as other nations.

      Israel stands guilty of crimes against humanity in the Guatemala genocide, it's participation evidenced in court and history.

      Through moderate discussion the truth comes out.

      We are in agreement.
      Israel stands guilty.

    5. The quot standard was articulated ...

      What is &quot Occupation&quot
      Sat Sep 28, 11:49:00 AM EDT

    6. Yawn.

      Rat a jew hating person, a Israel hating bashing person, a person who has admitted to being a violent criminal seeks to deflect his PERSONAL guilt by indicting Israel.


    7. Let's be frank.

      Rat's support for Iran and indictment of Israel speaks volumes.

      It shows where rat's loyalty stands.

  40. .

    In discussing income inequality and tax policy here is an example of a change that seems perfectly reasonable to me given that 10% of the population controls 80% of stock market wealth.

    Where things get entertaining is when Albert Edwards looks at the US tax system, and particularly its capital gains and dividend taxation components, and concludes "No wonder it has been so easy for the 1% to get richer and richer in the US. While some might explain higher inequality as the inevitable consequence of technological innovation and globalisation, for me distortions in the tax system are key to explaining the extreme levels of income inequality in the US." He continues: "Instead of backing off, things should have gone even further in my opinion to arrest the upward march of US inequality. In my opinion one of the greatest tax distortions and biggest incentives for tax avoidance would be eliminated by completely aligning all taxes on capital gains and dividend income with income tax."

    Where it gets downright amusing is that Edwards believes that his assessment regarding the reasons for US social inequality would engender a very violent reaction from "economic libertarian bloggers." To wit:

    I can hear the calls from the economic libertarian bloggers to hang, draw and quarter me (incidentally I used to drink at a pub of the same name just next to the Tower of London so I am fully acquainted with the practice). But before I am strung up as a heretic, consider the words of one of the most tax-reforming, right-wing UK Chancellors of the Exchequer of the 20th century.

    Nigel Lawson said in 1988: "In principle there is little economic difference between income and capital gains, and many people effectively have the option of choosing, to a significant extent, which they receive. Insofar as there is a difference, it is by no means clear why one should be taxed more heavily than the other."




    1. The system graduated with regard to the tax rate paid on the amounts earned ...
      but giving no preference in rate with regard to source of the income, labor or capital.

      Also eliminate the "Payroll" tax and incorporate it into a single Federal tax, rather than a cascading series of them

      Been saying that for years.

  41. .

    IMO, those who argue against the Occupy protests haven't a clue. Some here have even argued they can't be any good because 'Obama' says he supports them. My answer, Obama has said a lot of things. You can accept what he says or you can look at the reality. He is a tool of the 1% and it's the players on Wall Street that call the tune.


    In the final months of 2011, almost two years before the city of Detroit would shock America by declaring bankruptcy in the face of what it claimed were insurmountable pension costs, the state of Rhode Island took bold action to avert what it called its own looming pension crisis. Led by its newly elected treasurer, Gina Raimondo – an ostentatiously ambitious 42-year-old Rhodes scholar and former venture capitalist – the state declared war on public pensions, ramming through an ingenious new law slashing benefits of state employees with a speed and ferocity seldom before seen by any local government.

    Called the Rhode Island Retirement Security Act of 2011, her plan would later be hailed as the most comprehensive pension reform ever implemented. The rap was so convincing at first that the overwhelmed local burghers of her little petri-dish state didn't even know how to react. "She's Yale, Harvard, Oxford – she worked on Wall Street," says Paul Doughty, the current president of the Providence firefighters union. "Nobody wanted to be the first to raise his hand and admit he didn't know what the fuck she was talking about."


    What few people knew at the time was that Raimondo's "tool kit" wasn't just meant for local consumption. The dynamic young Rhodes scholar was allowing her state to be used as a test case for the rest of the country, at the behest of powerful out-of-state financiers with dreams of pushing pension reform down the throats of taxpayers and public workers from coast to coast. One of her key supporters was billionaire former Enron executive John Arnold – a dickishly ubiquitous young right-wing kingmaker with clear designs on becoming the next generation's Koch brothers, and who for years had been funding a nationwide campaign to slash benefits for public workers.

    Nor did anyone know that part of Raimondo's strategy for saving money involved handing more than $1 billion – 14 percent of the state fund – to hedge funds, including a trio of well-known New York-based funds: Dan Loeb's Third Point Capital was given $66 million, Ken Garschina's Mason Capital got $64 million and $70 million went to Paul Singer's Elliott Management. The funds now stood collectively to be paid tens of millions in fees every single year by the already overburdened taxpayers of her ostensibly flat-broke state. Felicitously, Loeb, Garschina and Singer serve on the board of the Manhattan Institute, a prominent conservative think tank with a history of supporting benefit-slashing reforms.



    1. .

      This is the third act in an improbable triple-fucking of ordinary people that Wall Street is seeking to pull off as a shocker epilogue to the crisis era. Five years ago this fall, an epidemic of fraud and thievery in the financial-services industry triggered the collapse of our economy. The resultant loss of tax revenue plunged states everywhere into spiraling fiscal crises, and local governments suffered huge losses in their retirement portfolios – remember, these public pension funds were some of the most frequently targeted suckers upon whom Wall Street dumped its fraud-riddled mortgage-backed securities in the pre-crash years.

      Today, the same Wall Street crowd that caused the crash is not merely rolling in money again but aggressively counterattacking on the public-relations front. The battle increasingly centers around public funds like state and municipal pensions. This war isn't just about money. Crucially, in ways invisible to most Americans, it's also about blame. In state after state, politicians are following the Rhode Island playbook, using scare tactics and lavishly funded PR campaigns to cast teachers, firefighters and cops – not bankers – as the budget-devouring boogeymen responsible for the mounting fiscal problems of America's states and cities.

      Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/looting-the-pension-funds-20130926#ixzz2gDxeBKCz
      Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

      To date the same guys who brought us the 2008 crash are doing better than ever and not one of them have spent a day in jail.


    2. Hear! Hear!

      The shouts were heard reverberating in chamber, the members on their feet, applauding wildly.

      One would have thought that Winston Churchill had risen from the dead, and accompanied by Ronald Reagan had convinced Elvis to reenter the building to do an encore!

    3. .

      Thank you. Thank you.

      However, the last post was still part of the same Rolling Stone article. It went over the word limit and forgot to italicize the last part on the split.


  42. In important news, Idaho 7, Temple 0

    1. Whoa, Idaho 7 Temple 3

    2. Whoa whoa Idaho 14 Temple 3

      This is starting to look bad, we may win.

    3. Things continue to break bad Idaho 17 Temple 3

    4. Idaho 23 Temple 17

      Too much excitement, fell asleep

    5. Idaho 26 Temple 17

      Six minutes left, things look bad now

  43. Idaho 26 Temple 24

    1. Idaho 26 Temple 24 Final

      My season is ruined :(