“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."

Sunday, November 04, 2012

Far Out: Stars may burn out and die, but their light goes on forever. All the light ever produced by stars is still circulating through the universe

Astronomers measure cosmic ‘fog,’ estimate space between stars

By Thomas H. Maugh II
November 1, 2012, 1:30 p.m.

Stars may burn out and die, but their light goes on forever. All the light ever produced by stars is still circulating through the universe, a phenomenon known as extragalactic background light or EBL. This light is a kind of cosmic "fog" that dims light from distant stars passing through it, much like the beams from a lighthouse are dimmed by real fog. Now, for the first time, astronomers have been able to measure the sum total of EBL and to calculate the spacing of stars in the cosmos. They reported Thursday in the journal Science that the average density of stars in the universe is about 1.4 per 100 billion cubic light-years. That means that the average distance between stars is about 4,150 light-years.
To measure EBL, astronomers needed a kind of galactic signpost to allow them to determine how much light from distant stars is being lost. As their measuring marks, a team headed by Marco Ajello of Stanford University chose blazars -- galaxies emitting large amounts of gamma-radiation. Blazars are characterized by massive black holes at the center of the galaxies. As matter falls into the black hole, some of it is accelerated outward at nearly the speed of light. In the gamma-ray spectrum, these beams of light are especially bright and their sources are called blazars. The highest-energy gamma rays tend to pass through the EBL more efficiently that light in the visible spectrum.
Over the last four years, NASA's Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope has been examining the entire universe looking for, among other things, blazars. The satellite has so far identified more than 1,000 of the brilliant objects. Ajello and his team examined 150 blazars that emit gamma-rays of very high energy -- greater than 3 billion electron volts, or more than a billion times the energy of visible light. The team calculated the amount of gamma-radiation emanating from blazars ranging in age from 4 billion years to 11.2 billion years.
Some of the gamma-rays traveling through space strike photons in the EBL. These collisions form an electron-positron pair, destroying the gamma-radiation. By measuring the attenuation of gamma radiation, the team was able to produce the best estimate of total EBL obtained so far, allowing them to calculate the average star density.
The universe is known to be 13.7 billion years old. During the first 400 million years or so, the universe was composed primarily of pure hydrogen and helium gas and was essentially dark, according to team member Volker Bromm of the University of Texas at Austin. The universe then underwent a very rapid transition to star formation, with those first stars having masses ranging from 10 to 100 times that of our sun. That is when most of the heavy elements in the universe were created, he said. The peak of star formation occurred when the universe was about 3 billion years old, and star formation has been declining ever since.
By measuring EBL, Bromm said, Fermi is providing a shadow image of the first stars. Astronomers hope to see them directly when the powerful James Webb Space Telescope is launched in 2018.
.Out there in the dark, what new discoveries await us?


  1. Extragalactic background light or EBL. What a lovely thought.

  2. There really is eternity. Every moment of existence exists somewhere. We are all EBL somewhere.

  3. This comment has been removed by the author.

  4. Tat tvam asi.

    What's new?

    The Center of The Earth.

    Which is you.

    Harney Peak, South Dakota.

  5. I will post d'Souza's explaination of the very best argument in western philosophy, the whole line of argument going from Berkeley through Hume and Kant and into Schopenhauer. You, dear reader, are it.

    Happy surprise,

    Now, make something of it.

    "The dove flies through the darkness, and the darkness always recedes, and that darkness is the being of God."

    There is no end.

  6. This comment has been removed by the author.

  7. This place peoples, as it should, and with agony, and slowly.

    "The gentle finger of the Lord brings up the laggards."


    (but don't tell this to Ruf)


  8. I have heard what the talkers were talking, the talk of the beginning and the end,
    But I do not talk of the beginning or the end.

    There was never any more inception than there is now,
    Nor any more youth or age than there is now,
    And will never be any more perfection than there is now,
    Nor any more heaven or hell than there is now.

    Urge and urge and urge,
    Always the procreant urge of the world.

    Out of the dimness opposite equals advance, always substance and increase, always sex,
    Always a knit of identity, always distinction, always a breed of life.

    To elaborate is no avail, learn'd and unlearn'd feel that it is so.

    Sure as the most certain sure, plumb in the uprights, well entretied, braced in the beams,
    Stout as a horse, affectionate, haughty, electrical,
    I and this mystery here we stand.

    Clear and sweet is my soul, and clear and sweet is all that is not my soul.
    Lack one lacks both, and the unseen is proved by the seen,
    Till that becomes unseen and receives proof in its turn.

    Showing the best and dividing it from the worst age vexes age,
    Knowing the perfect fitness and equanimity of things, while they discuss I am silent, and
    go bathe and admire myself.

    Welcome is every organ and attribute of me, and of any man hearty and clean,
    Not an inch nor a particle of an inch is vile, and none shall be less familiar than the rest.

    I am satisfied–I see, dance, laugh, sing;
    As the hugging and loving bed-fellow sleeps at my side through the night, and withdraws
    at the peep of the day with stealthy tread,
    Leaving me baskets cover'd with white towels swelling the house with their plenty,
    Shall I postpone my acceptation and realization and scream at my eyes,
    That they turn from gazing after and down the road,
    And forthwith cipher and show me to a cent,
    Exactly the value of one and exactly the value of two, and which is ahead?

  9. Sure as the most certain sure, plumb in the uprights, well entretied, braced in the beams,
    Stout as a horse, affectionate, haughty, electrical,
    I and this mystery here we stand.

  10. This comment has been removed by the author.


  11. This beginning and end crap is just a bunch of Catholic/Protestant/Jewish popular hogwash.

    Where the Tree of Life was divided from the Tree of Good and Evil.

    Big big mistake.

  12. Replies
    1. CBS News:
      Home to that Newswoman who was the only MSM employee to actively follow and report on Fast and Furious.

      (thrown out as red meat to see who's first to come to the defense of Fast and Furious.
      ...or blame it all on Bush)

    2. "1:00 a.m. (7 p.m. ET): The first of two unmanned U.S. Predator drones, which already had been flying over eastern Libya, is diverted to Benghazi, as reported by CBS News' Sharyl Attkisson and David Martin on Oct. 15."


      Sharyl Attkisson, the Fast and Furious lady, can't trust THAT b.... it contradicts some of the concocted shit in the previous thread.

      Can't have that...
      Mere fact vs high quality BS.

    3. There are simply too many facts in that link, Quirk...

      I suggest you delete it forthwith.

    4. New documents reveal events leading up to Benghazi attack

      "As special security teams for Libya were reduced in the months before the attack, the U.S. diplomats increasingly relied on the local Libyan security and the police force for protection.

      The commander of the U.S. military security team that left Benghazi a month before the attack told me relying on the Libyans was risky business because they were often found to be affiliated with the enemy.


      Top Flight work by the Commander in Chief and Sec of State Fatass.
      Definitely deserving of re-election for the good of the Nation, according to two unimpeachable "resources" here.

    5. maltedmilkballs says:

      We have gone from a video, a little info out and the next lie from our government, a little more info and another lie, some more info and the next lie, e-mails got out and the next lie. Can not wait for the next bit of info to hear how the lie will change. When this is done;
      Hilary's political career/dreams are finished.
      Ambassador Rice should get a head start updating her resume.
      Our CIA director is about to be toast. Whitehouse will toss him under the bus.
      The whitehouse press spokesman is already a laughing stock.
      The European command is going to see a major shake up.
      Our sec of defence is up to his eyeballs in this cover up. Bye-Bye

      As my grand father used to tell me, "when I see cow pies in the barn yard, don't need a picture to tell me the cows have been there".

  13. So sad to see all the Brain Cycles wasted in the previous thread by Bob and Quirk, always followed by some yet more outlandish BS concocted by Rufasshole or Deserter Rat.

    Just for kicks, tho, I'll throw this in to see what they come up with.
    My bets on the Rodent coming up with the most demeaning defamation of a heroic warrior who sacrificed his life, trying to save others.

    Rufus may be more inventive, but does not seem to share the same intense desire to defame departed heros.

    If there were no assets nearby, did the Seal just paint those mortars with his laser for shits and giggles?

  14. Like Rummy says, (assuming the audience to be reasonable, not some agenda driven madmen like you know who... and who.) you can look at a map with Italy hanging down there, and North Africa, not exactly like Benghazi is on the South Pole, reachable only part of the year, and that only with considerable effort and special equipment.

  15. My theory on the Rodent used to be that he was pussywhipped, but now he seems so filled with bile and venom for all that is good and right, that he's lost all desire for Pussy... I remain puzzeled and sickened.


    That's easy, as we all know:


    1. and he (and fat fingers) are on the downlow with Obama.

  16. Listen Doug, get with the program:

    Those four Americans were working. They were at their workplace or at least close enough for government work. There was violence. WORKPLACE VIOLENCE. This may rise to be an interest for OSHA. You can bet the farm that the most serious thing here is that the consulate never posted the OSHA posters. After close investigation by Holder’ s DOJ and review by Obama, if he has the time, the entire Benghazi affair will be shown to have less workplace violence than numerous West Virginia coal mines, some probably owned by Bain Capital.

    Now get your head out of your ass, move forward and get your revenge against Romney.

    1. Excellent! If it were on Facebook I would like it. :)

    2. What's not to like?
      I bask in the Glory, even tho i like, don't know what a facebook like is from Shinola.
      ...or a Tweet from a Twit.

    3. Shinola was immortalized in colloquial English by the phrase You don't know shit from Shinola which first became widely popular during World War II.[3]

      In the film comedy The Jerk, the character Navin R. Johnson played by Steve Martin is tested by "Daddy" Richard Ward (actor) on whether he knows the difference between shit and Shinola before leaving home.

      Dolly Parton wrote the song "You don't know love from Shinola" for her 2008 Backwoods Barbie album.


    4. shit

      230 up, 90 down

      "Shit" may just be the most powerful word in the English
      language. You can be shit faced, shit out of luck, or have shit for brains. With a little effort, you can get your shit together, find a place for your shit or decide to shit or get off the pot. You can smoke shit, buy shit, sell shit, lose shit, find shit, forget shit, and tell others to eat shit and die. Some people know their shit while others can't tell the difference between shit and shineola. There are lucky shits, dumb shits, crazy shits, and sweet shits. There is bull shit, horse shit and chicken shit. You can throw shit, sling shit, catch shit, or duck when shit hits the fan. You can give a shit or serve shit on a shingle. You can find yourself in deep shit or be happier than a pig in shit. Some days are colder than shit, some days are hotter than shit, and some days are just plain shitty. Some music sounds like shit, things can look like shit, and there are times when you feel like shit. You can have too much shit, not enough shit, the right shit, the wrong shit or a lot of weird shit. You can carry shit, have a mountain of shit, or find yourself up shit creek without a paddle. Sometimes everything you touch turns to shit and other times you
      swim in a sea of shit and come out smelling like a rose. When you stop to consider all the facts, it's the basic building block of creation.

      Do you really need an example after all that shit? I didn't think so.

    5. looks like Doug followed little pellets down a rabbit trail.



    On June 6 of this year, a bomb planted at the U.S. compound in Benghazi ripped a 12-foot-wide hole in the outer wall.

    On June 11, the British ambassador’s motorcade was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade, wounding a medic and doctor. The next day, the ambassador was gone and the British Benghazi post was closed.

    At the same time, the Red Cross, after a second attack, shut down and fled the city.

    “When that occurred,” says Lt. Col. Andrew Wood, who headed the military security team in Tripoli, “we were the last flag flying in Benghazi; we were the last thing on their target list to remove.”

    On Aug. 15, at the U.S. compound in Benghazi, an emergency meeting was convened to discuss the 10 Islamist militias and their training camps in the area, among them al-Qaida and Ansar al-Sharia.

    On Aug. 16, a cable went to the State Department describing the imminent danger, saying the compound could not defend itself against a “coordinated attack.”

    The cable was sent to Hillary Clinton — and signed by Ambassador Chris Stevens.

    On Sept. 11, Ambassador Stevens died in a coordinated attack on the Benghazi compound by elements of Ansar al-Sharia and al-Qaida.


    1. Pat does not call the compound a Consulate.

      He understands that worrd have meaning and are not always iinterchangeable.

      Fancy that.

  18. {…}

    Catherine Herridge of Fox News, who unearthed the Aug. 16 cable, calls it the “smoking gun.”

    Yet, on Oct. 11, Joe Biden, during the vice presidential debate, asserted, “We weren’t told they wanted more security there.”

    While House spokesman Jay Carney said Biden’s “we” applied only to Biden, Obama and the White House. As the National Security Council is part of the White House, Carney was saying the NSC was in the dark over the Aug. 16 cable that had warned about the exact attack that occurred.

    What else have we lately learned?

    The State Department was following the Benghazi assault in real time.

    Three emails came from the compound that night. The first described the attack; the second came as the firing stopped; the third reported that Ansar al-Sharia was claiming credit.

    From an Oct. 26 report by Jennifer Griffin, also of Fox News, we now know there were two drones over Benghazi the night of Sept. 11 capable of sending pictures to U.S. commanders within reach of Benghazi, and to the CIA, Pentagon and White House.

    We also know that ex-SEAL Ty Woods, in the CIA safe house a mile away, was denied permission to go to the rescue of the compound, and that he disobeyed orders, went and brought back the body of diplomat Sean Smith.

    After the attack on the compound, the battle shifted to the safe house — for four more hours. Another ex-SEAL, Glen Doherty, made it to Benghazi from Tripoli. Seven hours after the initial assault that killed Ambassador Stevens and Smith, Doherty and Woods were still returning fire, when, having been abandoned on the orders of someone higher up, they were killed by a direct mortar hit.

    Due to stonewalling and the complicity of the Big Media in ignoring or downplaying the Benghazi story during the last weeks of the campaign, the Obamaites may get past the post on Nov. 6 without being called to account.

    But the truth is coming out, and an accounting is coming. For the character, competence and credibility of Obama’s entire national security team have been called into question.

    Hillary Clinton said she takes full responsibility for any security failure by her department at the Benghazi compound. But what does that mean? Did she see the Aug. 16 secret cable sent to her by Stevens describing his perilous situation? Was she oblivious to the battle in her department over security in Benghazi?

    This failure that occurred in her shop and on her watch, that Stevens warned about in his Aug. 16 cable, resulted in his death and the most successful terrorist attack on this country since 9/11.

    Why has Hillary not explained her inaction — or stepped down?

    The CIA has issued a terse statement saying it gave no order to anyone not to try to rescue the ambassador or not to move forces to aid Doherty and Woods, who died because no help came.

    Who, then, did refuse to send help? Who did give the orders to “stand down”?

    The president says he is keeping Americans informed as we learn the truth. But is that still credible?

    When did Obama learn that State was following the Benghazi attack in real time, that camera-carrying drones were over the city that night, that a seven-hour battle was fought, that desperate cries for help were being turned down.

    The CIA had to know all this. Did Tom Donilon of the NSC not know it? Did he not tell the president?

    Five days after Benghazi, Susan Rice went on five national TV shows to say the attack was a spontaneous protest over an anti-Muslim video.

    Did the president not know she was talking nonsense? Could he himself have still been clueless about what went on in Benghazi?


  19. Due to stonewalling and the complicity of the Big Media in ignoring or downplaying the Benghazi story during the last weeks of the campaign, the Obamaites may get past the post on Nov. 6 without being called to account.

    Obama, the obvious man for the job, worthy of four more years.

    1. What Rufus, fat fingers and others don't seem to understand is that Benghazi is the straw that broke the camels back. It's not about the timeline or the fog of war or covert ops so much as it is the administration's sophomoric obfuscations and deceit. We want to know why they thought they needed to blame it on a movie trailer. We want to know if they really thought they could get away with it. We want to know if they thought we are really that stupid. We want to know if they are really that stupid.

  20. "Did the president not know she was talking nonsense? "

    Ms Rice is Black.
    Is Mr 2164th white rice guy calling the Rice Kettle Wrong?
    WORKPLACE VIOLENCE is one thing.

    Outright RACISM?
    Beyond the Pale.

    1. I think you are suffering from orbital decay.

  21. NEW YORK - Falling temperatures on Sunday put more people at risk in a region already battling gasoline shortages, stubborn power outages and spasms of lawlessness in the wake of Superstorm Sandy.

    With overnight temperatures in the 30s and nearly a million people still without power in the area, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg was reluctant to plunge back into Friday's controversy over the last-minute cancellation of the New York City Marathon. While disappointed runners were planning to stage impromptu races of their own, Bloomberg put off questions about the marathon at a Saturday briefing and focused on what he said were more pressing matters.

  22. OppositionresearchSun Nov 04, 09:30:00 AM EST


    Gas Lines, Gouging, and Hurricane Sandy: Keeping Prices Low Means Nobody Gets Fuel - YouTube

    It always works this way in countries that adopt Big Government and Socialism.
    In the end, everyone ends up pretending to work for the government, and, the governement ends up pretending to pay a "living wage". Shared misery as ALL GET POORER AND POORER AND POORER.

    WAKE UP! Vote for people who will encourage the private sector and shrink government.

    REMEMBER, "wages" paid to government employees must eventually be collected in higher taxes, and, immediately must be financed by new borrowings - from China, from Japan, from whoever until our line of credit is cancelled because we become deadbeat borrowers.At that point, WE ALL (Black/White, Union/Non-Union...) END UP on "THE BOULEVARD OF BROKEN DREAMS"!

  23. Impressive?

    20,000-Plus Turn Out for Obama Rally with Katy Perry in Milwaukee

    1. .

      If Katy Perry were there I might have gone too.


  24. OSHA, at a Consulate that was not a Consulate at all.
    Comic. Relief, to be sure.

    There are so many varied stories, the truth is lost in the purple haze.

    An attack upon the US Consulate in Benghazi never happened, as theere was no US Consulate in Benghazi.
    Anyone that claims there was, misinformed, spreading propaganda or just plain lyin'.

    The fingers are 'big', anon, not fat. Length and girth well in proportion.
    Keybord is oh, so, tiny.
    Kinda like your intellect.

    1. heh, tell that to the dead.

    2. "An attack upon the US Consulate in Benghazi never happened"

      But, but, I got buttfucked by the muzzie, and am now in the other world, saith the newly dead.

    3. I'd never trust Obama again, saith the newly dead.

      Getting buttfucked by the muzzie is unpleasant, saith the newly dead.

    4. .

      You continue to embarrass yourself rat, writing off the deaths of four Americans as inconsequential and insulting the only heroes in this fiasco.

      Nothing to see here. Move along.



    5. I do not 'write them off', Q.

      I put them in their proper perspecctive.

      5he CIA gunsels did what they do. As doug said, the one that brought a laser to a gun fight, either not to bright or looking for fun and games. Not on the correct wave length. Shits and giggles.

      I place more stock in the intervention that did not occur, than in thinking thirty Marines should have invaded Libya.

    6. .

      As has been noted before, all we have is obfuscation from the administration so no one knows the exact details of what happened in Benghazi or what assets were available; therefore, I have to take you comment about shits and giggles with a grain of salt.

      What we do know is that a couple of these guys went to the aid of their fellow Americans rather than staying in a defensive position waiting for the fight to come to them.

      Had they chosen to stay put, I would have had no criticism of them at all, might even have thought it was the smart thing to do. The fact that they didn't and instead went to the aid of the others who were under attack makes me proud of them.

      I've criticized various levels of the military, the CIA, and State here before. In toto, they represent the vast spread of differences in people throughout the US with their all the faults and prejudices we see in the general public. However, I also recognize that when push comes to shove a good portion if not most of them are willing to put their lives on the line for duty and to help their buddies and the fellow Americans they vowed to protect.

      To my mind, when you see those unselfish acts you don't sit around in your lounge chair calling them cowboys, you applaud them.


    7. my bad, "fat head" would be more appropriate.

    8. Well, Q, you deplore the Predator strikes in Afpakistan, so you cannot think they'd have played well in Libya, no?

      Armed intervention by US military, to what end?
      The Ambassador was alreadyy dead.
      Were thirty Marines or a Delta Force contingent going to save the day. Or repeat 'Blackhawk Down'?

      My bet is on the latter.

      As to the other concerns, US forein policy has been consistent for the past twelve years. Muddled and confused.
      I see a Saudi influence as one of the primary causes. Especially when mixed with Israeli input. Both tend to muddy the water.

      If the CIA gunslingers were insubordinate in their actions, as reported by Sean Hennity, then they were not heros. Not at all.

    9. .

      Well, Q, you deplore the Predator strikes in Afpakistan, so you cannot think they'd have played well in Libya, no?

      Another red herring. The drones were reportedly unarmed, there to monitor the situation only. With regard to other uses of the drones, if you can't see the difference between using the drones and any collateral damage they cause in an offensive way and using those same drones to defend our people who are under attack, IMO, you have a problem.

      Armed intervention by US military, to what end?
      The Ambassador was alreadyy dead

      What about the other 30 people in the compound?

      Were thirty Marines or a Delta Force contingent going to save the day. Or repeat 'Blackhawk Down'?

      I have no idea. However, that concern didn't seem to bother the CIA head of station who sent about a dozen agents along with a couple of military and some of the friendlies on a rescue mission to the compound.

      Likewise, I (nor you) know what assets were available for a rescue mission. As I mentioned yesterday, the FAST units aren't really trained for rescue operations. If anything they should have been sent in before the attack when help was requested by those on the ground. Maybe there was no way to get assets on the ground on time. However, my problem with your take is that you seem to believe the people actually on the ground there shouldn't have been taking any action. Obviously, the CIA head of station didn't agree with you.

      As to the other concerns, US forein policy has been consistent for the past twelve years. Muddled and confused.
      I see a Saudi influence as one of the primary causes. Especially when mixed with Israeli input. Both tend to muddy the water.

      I agree US ME policy has been muddled for a dozen years, probably for a lot longer than that. That being said, the Obama administration has taken it to a whole new level of ineptitude. That relations with the Saudis and the Israelis muddy the water no doubt. However, putting the lives of Americans at risk in an attempt to garner favor with people who don't respect you or to cover past failures is a wasted effort. The ROE's established by the present bunch are laughable.

      If the CIA gunslingers were insubordinate in their actions, as reported by Sean Hennity, then they were not heros. Not at all.

      This is the stupid statement that started our little brouhaha in the first place. First, there are still questions as to whether the agents were told to 'stand down' but assume it is true. The CIA aren't military. If they are insubordinate, you fire them. You don't court martial them. If you did fire them for doing what they thought was right, going to the aid of fellow Americans who were under attack, you would be laughed out of your job and they would be quickly re-hired, that is, if they weren't hired the next day by State or any of dozens of private security firms.

      Despite your jaded cynicism, these guys were heroes.

      This whole clusterfuck was the result of

      1. Obama's Libyan war and the negatives that followed
      2. Failure to support Americans on the ground in Libya with proper security whether to

      a. either support the false impression that everything is rosy in newly liberated Libya, or

      b. to ameliorate relations with our new best buddies in the ME.

      The CIA agents? Merely, reacting as best they could to a shit situation.

      The rest of this farce a pooly executed cover-up by a bunch of amatuers.


    10. Obama nor the US fought a war in Libya. The Libyians did.
      A tribal conflict that is still in flux.
      The thirty civilians were long gone from the compound six hours after the fight began and the CIA employee was tagging the mortar crew.

      The CIA employee did not break contact, intead he was attempting to escalate the fire fight, after the primary damage was done, the death of our Ambassador, was fait accompli.

      The primay question, should the US put troops on the ground in Libya. The answer was, is and should remain a resounding ...


    11. .

      Obama nor the US fought a war in Libya. The Libyians did.

      Damn, I gots to get me some of them toads, rat.


    12. .

      The thirty civilians were long gone from the compound six hours after the fight began and the CIA employee was tagging the mortar crew.

      If you go by the timeline laid out by CBS, the attack on the compound started about 9:00 pm local time and 30 Americans plus security personell were still located at the annex waiting to move to the airport.

      1:30 a.m. (7:30 p.m. ET): A U.S. security team from Embassy Tripoli lands in Benghazi and learn that the ambassador is missing. They try to arrange for transportation into town, with the goal of locating Stevens.

      4:07 a.m. (10:07 p.m. ET): Secretary Clinton issues a statement acknowledging the death of one State Dept. officer.

      5:00 a.m. (11:00 p.m.): A second U.S. Predator drone arrives, per CBS News' Attkisson and Martin.

      5:15 a.m. (11:15 p.m. ET): The U.S. Regional Security Office in Tripoli gets a phone call from an Arabic-speaking source who says a Westerner has been found in Benghazi and is perhaps at a hospital. It's believed to be Ambassador Stevens. Transfer to airport is arranged.

      At around the same time, the additional security team finds transportation from the airport under the escort of the Libyan Shield, another local militia, but decides to head to the annex after learning that Stevens was almost certainly dead. Just after their arrival, the annex takes mortar fire, sustaining three direct hits. The precision of the attacks indicates a level of sophistication and coordination.

      Former U.S. Navy SEALs Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty are killed in the mortar assault, which lasts just 11 minutes before dissipating; a DS agent and annex security member are severely wounded.

      After the mortar attack, about 30 Americans evacuate the annex and head to the airport, with the assistance of the Libyan security convoy.

      Ambassador Stevens is confirmed dead later that morning, as Americans see his body at the airport

      The plane is too small for all of the Americans, so the first flight out takes U.S. diplomats and civilians to Tripoli, leaving behind security staff and bodies.


    13. .

      If you go by the timeline laid out by CBS, the attack on the compound started about 9:00 pm local time and (about 8 hours later) 30 Americans plus security personell were still located at the annex waiting to move to the airport.


    14. The annex, Q, was not the compound.

      It was from the annex that Mr D was laser painting the mortar crew. Providing them with the targetin spefics they needed to hit the annex.

      The US people from the compound were safe, until. The CIA made the annex a forward air control position with no planes in the air.

      A typical cluster fuck, especially with civilians playing Army.

      The primary question remains ...

      Should the US expand the Libyan conflict by pjutti.g troops on the ground?

      You seem to vote YES
      Me, I vote no.

      Even thirty US lives are not worth another sandbox war

      )earn the Lebenon Lesson.
      Mr Reagan did

    15. .

      The annex was 1 mile away from the compound and that was where the first quick reaction force came from in support of the people at the compound and that's where the survivors of the compound were taken.

      The group returning to the annex were attacked with rifle fire and grenades on their way back and arrived with a couple tires blown on their armored vehicle. After a second force out of Tripoli arrived at the annex from the airport, the annex was attacked by the terrorists with RPG's and mortar.

      How you can say the people in the annex were safe is beyond me.

      The primary question remains ...

      Should the US expand the Libyan conflict by pjutti.g troops on the ground?

      No. That's not the primary question. The primary question came up when you accused the CIA agents of being derilict in their duty by going to the aid of fellow Americans. I say that is bullshit.

      A secondary question beyond that primary question is what was an appropriate response to the attack by our government and should US troops have been involved. You say no. I say I don't know. Since the CIA was able to fight off the terrorists themselves and get the civilian workers out of there it is kind of a moot question at this point.

      What I do say is that the ultimate reason for the attack was precipitated by US policy on the part of the Obama administration regarding the Libyan war and that FUBAR was compounded by policy and judgement mistakes by the administration regarding security there.


    16. .

      Lest you think I am trying to avoid the issue you raised of US troops in Libya, let me go on.

      First, Lebanon. Good lord, rat, get serious. We are talking a rescue mission not an occupation or a peace keeping mission.

      That being said, under a more limited scenario, had things gone worse, had the CIA not been able to manage things, had more Americans died rather than the unlucky few, I might have looked at it differently. How many times have we heard that we are involved in this existential war on terror? How many times has the WOT been used as an excuse for restricting constitutional rights and expanding the powers of the state? How many thousands of troops have been killed or maimed in the the name of the WOT? How many innocents have been killed in the name of the WOT? How many countries have been invaded in the name of the WOT? How many refugees have been created in the name of the WOT? What hasn't been justified in the name of the WOT?

      US facilities in Libya were attacked by...gosh...terrorists. If we are involved in an actual WOT, shouldn't we take out the terrorists that are attacking us? I have admitted that I don't know what resources were available, what men or other assets could have been brought to bear in time to take down the terrorists. However, if it were possible, I would have had no problem with using troops.

      The first reaction I'm sure is what about the chance of even more deaths. If you are concerned about that don't put people in situations where they are left hanging in the wind and at the mercy of the terrorists you helped create in the first place. Then there will be no need for rescue missions.

      The second objection is that it might upset the Libyan government. I have mixed feelings about this. The current Libyan government seems to want to cooperate with the US. Whether that is because we are the only thing propping them up or just how long the cooperation will last is anyones guess but right now they seem to be on our side. Unfortunately, they are weak. They are powerless to do what is required of any legitimate government, protect foreign legations on their soil. If they can't do it, I say either we do it or we get out.

      Trying not to hurt feelings in the ME will be are undoing. No one there likes us and unless we give them reason no one there will respect us.

      It's better to be viewed as a powerful prick than an emasculated paper tiger.

      The admistration has said that Ghadaffi was acting as a terrorist in attacking his own people. It said we had to act to protect Libyan citizens for humanitarian reasons. He brought our most advanced technology to the party to do just that. Can anyone deny that he has a more primary role in protecting the lives of US citizens that work for him?


    17. The US has invaded two counties in the WOT, oraq a.d Afpakistan.

      The others we are involved with, like Yemen, hnave invited US in.

  25. PA POLL JOLT: O 47% R 47%

    Go Pennsylvania!

    1. Realclear Politics Avg. Pa

      Obama +4.1

      PPP Obama +6

    2. Ruf, your guess is as good as mine, perhaps better, about how this sucker is going to come out.

      I am crossing my fingers and hoping for no rioting in the streets.

    3. The Super-Mathematicians give Romney an approx. 1 in 5 chance of winning.

      I have been beat Many times by much longer odds than that.

      So, yeah, we'll see.


    Thank you for voting!
    Commander-in-chief unaware bayonets are still standard issue 4.77% (183 votes)

    "I want fuel efficient cars and long-lasting batteries and wind turbines manufactured here in China!" 5.47% (210 votes)

    "We should have one Secretary of Business" 15.47% (594 votes)

    "We leave noboby behind" 50.61% (1,943 votes)

    Tells Hurricane Sandy victims to go to the Internet for updates 23.68% (909 votes)

    Total Votes: 3,839

    Cast your vote now, Rufus, the poll may still be open!

  27. I just got done reading this book -

    Why Does The World Exist?

    After struggling with physics, and metaphysical problems such as how can something come out of nothing, and other such sophomoric stuff, at the end he finally tells a good tale about the death of his mother. He begins to get somewhere, just begins....

    It's a start.

  28. I have heard what the talkers were talking, the talk of the beginning and the end,
    But I do not talk of the beginning or the end.

    There was never any more inception than there is now,
    Nor any more youth or age than there is now,
    And will never be any more perfection than there is now,
    Nor any more heaven or hell than there is now.

    O Walt, I love you so much. And I think of you walking those hospital wards, tending the injured and the dying....

    O Walt Walt Walt!

  29. When Walt says in Song of Myself o let it out then, speak, what he is saying is he has the boon, it came to him, like a Prince waking Sleeping Beauty, see The Hero With A Thousand Faces, an expansion of consciousness, on this topic see Cosmic Consciousness, Bucke, because a a rise in consciousness is always in myth depicted as coming from the outside, overwhelming, and it is no longer Walt speaking.

  30. He is our great American poet.

  31. November 4, 2012
    A President without Shame
    By Clarice Feldman

    Speaking at a photo op about the Sandy hurricane disaster, President Obama said:

    "In times of crisis, "we pull together, we leave nobody behind, we make sure we respond as a nation," Obama said, reprising one of his 2012 campaign themes.

    "Whenever an American is in need, all of us stand together in providing the help that is necessary," he added."

    Not only "leave nobody behind", but "providing the help that is necessary."

    It was an amazingly audacious lie, prompting Grady Gibbs to post on Facebook, "The Brazilians have the perfect expression for this. There's no exact translation for 'sim vergonha,' but it means 'having no shame or pride.'"

    Maybe he thought no one had caught on to the way this administration had failed Ambassador Stevens and those trapped in Benghazi, but three women journalists, at least (Fox's Jennifer Griffin and Catherine Herridge and CBS's Sharyl Attkisson ), have not forgotten those acts of incompetence, treachery and mendacity. They are being helped by countless whistleblowers that share our outrage. And it is obvious even more are coming forward every day fueled by the anger we all share at this failure to "stand together, providing the help that is necessary".

    Read more:

    American Thinker is really a wonderful web site.


  32. Syria: Last Christian in Homs killed

    "Mansour reportedly said that nothing would induce him to leave his home, adding that, if he met the rebels, 'He would remind them about the Ten Commandments and the Holy Scriptures.'"

    "Syria: Last Christian in Homs Killed," from ANSAmed, October 31 (thanks to Insubria):

    (ANSAmed) - Vatican City - The last Christian who was in the centre of Homs was killed, after the civilian population was evacuated due to widespread fighting.

    According to the Vatican's Fides news agency, 84-year-old Elias Mansour, a Greek-Orthodox Christian did not want to leave his home on Wadi Sayeh street - even though he knew his life was in danger - because he had to take care of his handicapped son, Adnane.

    The Wadi Sayeh area, inhabited by both Christians and Sunni Muslims, is still at the centre of clashes between the army and rebel troops. The rebels have barricaded themselves in the areas of Khalidiyeh, Bab Houd, Bustan diwan, Hamidiyeh and the streets of Wadi Sayeh and Ouret al shayyah, surrounded by regular army forces. A Greek-Orthodox priest told Fides that Elias Mansour was killed yesterday. In the days preceding his murder, Mansour reportedly said that nothing would induce him to leave his home, adding that, if he met the rebels, "He would remind them about the Ten Commandments and the Holy Scriptures." The funeral will be celebrated today in an Orthodox church. Meanwhile, an Orthodox priest is trying to track down his disabled son, his fate remains unknown. According to Fides, the convent of the Jesuits in the Hamidiyeh area was also hit during ongoing fighting. The structure has undergone minor damage but no victims have been reported. The Jesuits and the displaced people who are sheltering within said that they have experienced moments of fear, but are unharmed. (ANSAmed).

    Posted by Robert on November 3, 2012 4:25 AM | 5 Comments | Digg this | Email | FaceBook | Twitter | Print | Tweet

    Robert Spencer and Pam Geller are wonderful people. They have received so many deaths threats one loses count. If you are into prayer, pray for those two wonderful lovely people.

  33. Amazing. I just watched a video of George Will saying Romney is going to win Minnesota because of a marriage amendment on the ballot there.

    Either George is smoking dope or I am, and I am not, or at least don't remember it if I have.

    That panel of experts had it five thinking Obama would win, and just one or two thinking Romney will win.

    It is time again to attend a democratic convention...

    “The members who composed it were, seven-eighths of them, office-holders, office-seekers, pimps, malignants, conspirators, murderers, fancy-men, custom-house clerks,contractors, kept-editors, spaniels well-train’d to carry and fetch, jobbers, infidels, disunionists, terrorists, mail-riflers, slave-catchers, pushers of slavery, creatures of the President, creatures of would-be Presidents, spies, blowers, electioneerers, bawlers, bribers, compromisers, lobbyers, sponges, ruined sports, expell’d gamblers, policy-backers, monte-dealers, duelists, carriers of conceal’d weapons, deaf’ men, pimpled men, scarr’d inside with vile disease, gaudy outside with gold chains made from the people’s money and harlot’s money twisted together; crawling, serpentine men, the lousy combings and born freedom-sellers of the earth.”

    Walt Whitman in attendance

  34. What this country needs is a good king.


  35. Too many chiefs, too few braves.

    Chief Plenty Coups

  36. Time again as well to watch Bob Hope clip describing Rufus -

  37. I guess I should also mention that Walt, in another mood, said the democrats have the more compassionate economic argument, but the Republicans were much the better people.

    He also said that the Lord must love the poor, as he makes so many of them.

  38. I particularly like this -

    kept-editors, spaniels well-train’d to carry and fetch

    which is exactly what our press has become.

  39. Here is an ad that targets World Rufus -

    Did you catch the lie at about 45 seconds?

    Home • The FactCheck Wire • Another Abortion Falsehood from Obama’s ‘Truth Team’
    Another Abortion Falsehood from Obama’s ‘Truth Team’
    Posted on August 23, 2012
    Bookmark and Share

    The Obama campaign is falsely accusing the Republican Party’s platform of calling for banning abortions even in cases of rape or incest. That’s not true. The 2012 platform is silent on exceptions — leaving that decision up to Congress and the states — just as it was in 2008 and in previous presidential election years.

    To make matters worse, the latest falsehood comes from the president’s “Truth Team.” An Aug. 20 posting on the “Truth Team’s” site repeats a bogus claim that Mitt Romney would “ban abortion even in cases of rape or incest,” adding (our emphasis): “He also supports the Republican Party platform, which includes a Human Life Amendment that bans abortion without those exceptions.”

    The fact is, as we’ve noted again and again in response to false Obama TV ads, Romney has consistently said — as far back as 2005 — that he would allow abortions in cases of rape, incest or to save the life of the mother. (Before then, he supported a legal right to abortion generally, but switched his position to opposing abortion, with the usual exceptions.)

    Banning abortion in cases of rape or incest is deeply unpopular with the public. A 2011 Gallup Poll showed, for example, that even persons who described themselves as “pro-life” favor exceptions for rape or incest by a wide margin. Gallup found that 59 percent of those abortion foes favored those exceptions, as did 91 percent of those who described themselves as “pro-choice.” But political expediency is no excuse for falsifying an opponent’s position.

    1. Rufus assured me a few threads back that indeed, the GOP was for banning abortions even in the case of rape, so it must be true.

    2. It's the GOP position as per their House Bill in 2011. No exceptions

      It is in their Personhood Amendment.

      Youu should learn the history of those you endorse, boobie.

    3. Well then,,,, youuu should suppport it crapppppper faat fingar after taking the jos to task like you did

      My post was concerning Romney's position on abortion.

    4. All this talk about abortion, serious as it is, is really beside the point. It is just a political arguing point.

      We have abortion in the United States. If the Supreme Court should ever over rule their former ruling, it goes back to the states. Then the whole argument begins again.

      It is a maddening and impossible argument. Yes, women have rights. But then again, yes, a fetus, to some people, ought to have rights as well.

      I do not know how you end this argument.

      Use birth control.

      I admire Sarah Palin's attitude to the issue, but I see the other side as well.

      Let us recall, Obama voted to kill children that survived abortions.

      To me, this is going way way too far, to vote to kill a newly born American citizen.

      The mother, at that point, has no say in it at all, having abandoned her child, for whatever reason, perhaps a good and understandable one, because that child is now an American citizen.

    5. Fat finger always call names.

      He should stop.

      Bob responds, calls fat finger big crapper.

      Not good in teepee.

      Chief Plenty Coups

    6. It is a simple, verifiable fact that Romney, as Governor of Massachusetts, VETOED a bill that would make have allowed hospitals to administer a drug to RAPE VICTIMS that would have aborted any pregnancy resulting from the rape.

      Forget, "Rufus said,"

      Google it yourself.

    7. Once you declare a "fertilized egg" a "Person" virtually all birth control methods, INCLUDING THE BIRTH CONTROL PILL, become ILLEGAL.

  40. The current democratic party is the 'looney bin fringe', come to take your freedoms away.

    If they ever regain some better sense, put up some honest candidates, not this lying Hillary and Obama type of human crap, I might even vote for them again.

    After all, I voted once for Frank Church. It may have been a mistake, but I love the wilderness. And Frank warned us in no uncertain terms of Quirk's dreaded coming of the American Police State.

    Romney/Ryan 2012


    1. Who was the entertainment headliner?

      John Rich?

    2. Doug has the answer. That is correct. They came out to see some real hope. Not a lying son of a bitch. Not Jesus, but just Mitt, a Mormon with some real world experience, and no off the wall promises, like taming the seas, and shit.

    3. Mitt is an entertainer, no doubt.

      A lo of flash, no substance or depth.

      RomneyCare and his Running away from it, the perfect example

    4. He said, I can't tame the seas, but I think I can make things a little better.

      By Christ, that is all I am asking.

      Let's give this guy a chance.

      I have been around Mormons my entire life. I feel safe around them, for what that is worth.

      Rufus can guffaw in his coon skin cap about magic underwear, but I would rather live in Salt Lake City than Misssissippi.

      And I have been to both.

    5. Mitt is an entertainer, no doubt.

      O my God, you have missed B-HO on The View!!!!!!!!

    6. One is compelled to add, you are entertaining as hell, yourself.

    7. He plays his audience like a fiddle

      They don't even remember his hits from the past.
      The market has no memory.

      Not for his gun taxes, RomneyCare. Tax avoidence and job exporting.

      No, Romney's audience jjust hear his current play list and thinks he's got the tbeat.

    8. Anyone remember the enormous crowds George McGovern drew?

    9. You might win, Rufus!

      You may get what you want, a perfect asshole and fool in the White House, and you are too dumb to see it.

  42. I know I am getting older now.

    Back in my day, I would have been shocked to have seen a political ad of a vagina right in my face.

    A political ad of a vagina, and another political ad of a first time voter that suggests how cool it would be to get humped first time by B-HO.

    My aunt would have turned the tv off.

    Thankfully, I have my books, my daughter, my wife, my son, and what is left of my mind, and my property.

    1. Not in that order. There is a hierarchy of value.

    2. .

      Damn, Bob.

      All this time and I never knew you had a son.


  43. WASHINGTON -- Once again, Florida and its problems at the polls are at the center of an election.

    Early voting is supposed to make it easier for people to carry out their constitutional right. Tuesdays are notoriously inconvenient to take off work, so many states have given voters the option of turning out on weekends or other weekdays in the run-up to Election Day.

    But in Florida this year, it has been a nightmare for voters, who have faced record wait times, long lines in the sun and a Republican governor, Rick Scott, who has refused to budge and extend early voting hours.

    "People are getting out to vote. That's what's very good," said Scott.

    People are getting out to vote -- but many of them are having to wait in line for three or four hours to do so. One contributor to DailyKos claimed it took 9 hours to vote. In Miami-Dade on Saturday, people who had gotten in line by 7:00 p.m. were allowed to vote; the last person wasn't checked in until 1 a.m., meaning it took some individuals six hours to cast a ballot.

    "We're looking at an election meltdown that is eerily similar to 2000, minus the hanging chads," said Dan Smith, a political science professor at the University of Florida.

    Heroic Vote Suppression Efforts by the Republicans

  44. I know deep down democracy is not going to work. We have put three generations into it now, trying to make a society of some better sense, and not this of the Nez Perce coming back from a war party, a war party!, with the skins of the dead about their necks, but rather a society of laws, of decency, where you cannot harm the other. A society of higher education, a university, and what do I see, a vagina in my face, and a political ad for Obama saying how cool, o how cool, it would be to get fucked first time by The One.

  45. Chaos ensued at Miami-Dade Elections headquarters Sunday when officials closed the doors early on nearly 200 people who had been promised an extra four-hour period to vote -- then reopened an hour later with more staff.

    "Let us vote! Let us vote!" chanted those who refused to leave the line when doors first closed. College student Blake Yagman told The Huffington Post he was next to vote when officials decided they couldn't serve those who showed up.

    "I was there for about three and a half hours," said Yagman, who added that because he is severely hypoglycemic he spent several hours throwing up after standing in the sun for so long. He said he had already tried to vote three times earlier this week, at two different Miami locations.

    "Each of the lines was about four to five hours," he told HuffPost. "It took my mom eight and a half hours to vote at Aventura."

    Let Us Vote, Let Us Vote

  46. Ohio, not to be outdone,

    Still, this is about getting your votes in, and some people have other places to be. Teresa, an older black woman at the front of the line, said she'd been waiting for more than two hours to cast her vote.

    "I'm not amused," she said.

    Still, Teresa said she appreciated that volunteers were handing out food. "Coffee, pizza, chips and all that stuff," she said.

    A little further back, Julia Chen, in her early 40s, said she wasn't surprised by the long wait.

    "Everybody's lives are different than they were before. Everybody's schedules are different ... I have to work until 6 on Tuesday," Chen said. "I don't want to rush."

    Chen, who lives in the suburbs, said she also didn't mind the wait. For one thing, she said, she got to know the people next to her in line.

    "When you first show up, you're like, 'holy shit,'" she said, but when you get up front, "You're like 'yay!'"

    Indeed, the line can be breathtaking at first sight. Starting from the tail end, it runs for about a block, then around the corner for another two blocks, and then around the corner for about half a block.

    "Jesus," one woman said as she walked up with a little girl.

    "Tell me again why we're here?" another woman said to her friend.

    Greg, a retiree who was leaving the scene as HuffPost arrived, said it was absolutely worth his two-plus hour wait to vote. He was smoking a cigarette to celebrate.

    "If I die tomorrow, at least my vote counts today," he said.


  47. When your party is the one trying to suppress the vote, you might be in the wrong party.

  48. There have been massive lines this weekend in the key swing states of Florida and Ohio, with some voters waiting six hours or more to cast their ballot.

    This is not an accident. In Ohio, after attempting to cancel weekend early voting all together, Secretary of State Jon Husted (R) drastically rolled back early voting hours.

    In Florida, Gov. Rick Scott (R) reduced the number of early voting days from 14 to 8.

    Here is the result:

    An Afghan Veteran said, I didn't mind fighting for my Country, but I resent having to fight for my Right To Vote.

    1. We are looking more, and more, like a third-world country.

  49. I still believe we have some very serious long-term issues, but this guy makes a good case for a few pretty good quarters coming up.


    His segment comes up after the cute video of of Bloomberg's extremely cute "signer."

  50. Replies
    1. Let us now, we of good spirit, pray heartedly and most forcefully, for the healing of Ruf's declining mind, O Lord, hear our prayer! O hear our Prayer, O Lord, for our wayward fellow, our dear brother, Rufus, most loved, he of the good intent, Hear Our Prayer, O Lord. For Rufus, he of the great and wayward compassion, Hear Our Prayer, O Lord.

      We beseech thee.

      Hear Our Prayer!

  51. Thank the ever living Christ that there is more to life than politics --

    The full moon was shining upon the broad sea;
    I sang to the one star that look'd down at me;
    I sang to the white horse that graz'd on the quay,--
    As I walk'd down by the high sea-wall.
    But my lips they,
    My lips they,
    Said never a word,
    As I moped by the high sea-wall.

    The curlew's slow night song came on the water.
    That tremble of sweet notes set my heart astir,
    As I walk'd beside her, the O'Connell's daughter,
    I knew that I did love her.
    But my lips they,
    My lips they,
    Said never a word,
    As we walk'd by the high sea-wall.

    The full moon has fallen, the night wind is down
    And I lie here thinking in bleak Bofin town.
    I lie here and thinking, "I am not alone."
    For here close beside me is O'Connell's daughter,
    And my lips they, my lips they,
    Say many a many a word,
    As we embrace by the high sea-wall.
    O! my lips they, my lips they,
    say many a word,
    As we kiss by the high sea-wall.

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