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Friday, February 05, 2016

Christopher Hitchens on Abraham and Isaac Bible Fable


“Abraham and the wonderful meanings of his stories”  - Boobie


The huge global scale of female genital mutilation has been revealed in disturbing new statistics, which show at least 200 million girls and women alive today have undergone ritual cutting, half of them living in just three countries.
The latest worldwide figures, compiled by Unicef, include nearly 70 million more girls and women than estimated in 2014 because of a raft of new data collected in Indonesia, one of the countries where FGM is most prevalent despite the practice being banned since 2006.
In the analysis of 30 countries, published to mark the International Day of Zero Tolerance for FGM, statistics showed women in Indonesia, Egypt and Ethiopia account for half of all FGM victims worldwide. Somalia has the highest prevalence of women and girls who have been cut – 98% of the female population between the ages of 15 and 49.

60 comments:

  1. Not worth reading. Hitchens being a brain dead, and now fully dead, drunk.

    But, if you are concerned about your circumcision and feel it is giving you psychological problems, as definitely seems to be the case with some sufferers here, there is hope.

    Go to Foreskin Restoration Project.

    Start here with wiki:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreskin_restoration

    Their motto is:

    "A man without a full foreskin is a man without full thought"

    This is just an advertising slogan of course, and is not true at all, and sounds like something Quirk might have come up with in his advertising days, but it worked well, and there was a run on the Foreskin Clinic out in Detroit in the first months after it was started.

    Uncertain whether ObamaCare will pay for this but you might try and run it through the system.


    ReplyDelete
  2. Ah yes the uneducated commenting on Abraham once again.

    Distortions from the Torah.

    Deuce and Christopher both really lack the insight to comment on the topic. But don't feel bad Islam and Christianity are just as misinformed.

    It was not the "sacrifice" of Isaac, it was the OFFERING. And if you learn the story you will find that Abraham used a ram not his son.

    Of course, from the Jewish ORIGINAL perspective, this was the 1st and most powerful lesson of the Torah, DO NOT KILL your SON for G-d.

    Now of course the pagan world was FULL of this son sacrificing practice, and what the story tells us, IN CONTEXT of the time, is that the normal practice of human sacrifice had to STOP.

    Now Christianity distorted this message and reverted and used the concept to "sacrifice" jesus, a throwback to the ancient pagan worship....

    Islam? Has no problem in using it's kids as martyrs and celebrates their sacrifice as blessed...


    No the lesson of Abraham and Isaac and "the offering" is exactly what I said. DO NOT MURDER YOUR SON FOR G-d.

    But as deuce said:

    Deuce ☂Fri Feb 05, 12:04:00 AM EST
    Too bad someone didn’t take Abraham out and drown him.

    That would eliminate all arabs and palestinians from the planet too....

    ReplyDelete
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    1. .

      I think you interpretation is wrong. And before you say that is because I am uneducated remember that the question has been debated for thousands of years by educated people, biblical scholars, and philosophers such as Kierkegaard.

      My view, and many would agree, is it is meant as a lesson on faith. The lesson is that God is inscrutable. As puny humans we can't hope to understand God's morality. We must simply accept his will and obey. It is the same lesson we are taught in the story of Job. We might not understand God's will but we must obey it willingly.

      .

      Delete
    2. Many would agree with you and still be wrong.

      Of course the story is about faith, but that's only the 1st half. The Final Part is the clincher.

      Might I suggest humbly that YOURS and OTHERS interpretation of MY people's story is inaccurate and incomplete???


      you say....

      We might not understand God's will but we must obey it willingly.

      And YET Abraham DID NOT OBEY

      He used a ram INSTEAD of his human son.


      Once again. You lack the original POV.

      Time to go to school Quick you POV is rooted in inaccuracies

      Delete
  3. 100% of the women in my life, amounting to 20 or more, that I've asked have all said for that for fun and frolick and full blow nookie they like circumcised cocks way better than nature's model.

    Keep this in mind.

    And the Poet and Painter William Blake was always hammering on his theme of improving nature, not just accepting it as it is....

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why is it that I don't find it incredible that you, Bob, of all people, would ask each and every women you had in your life that question? You know, it is entirely consistent with what we know of you here that you actually would do such a thing.

      Delete
    2. There you have it. I suppose that in.cludes your niece

      Delete
  4. http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Iranian-general-6-militia-volunteers-killed-in-Syria-443992

    Another few Iranian meddlers killed in Syria....

    ReplyDelete
  5. Interesting that Deuce slams the "bible" or Hebrew scriptures.

    Why Deuce, do you not slam the Quran? For having a similar story???

    Of course their distorted story focuses on Ishmael not Isaac but the point is valid, why not contempt in your many threads about the Quran?????

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Because Abraham is the original font of the first axis of evil.

      Delete
    2. And yet you do not reference the Quran.

      Interesting. SO you admit the jews were in Hebron BEFORE the Arabs and Moslems.

      Good.

      Now let's discuss your double standards.

      Delete
  6. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Weakish "Establishment" Report

    Huge Household Report

    615,000 Jump in Employed

    Unemployment Rate drops to 4.9%

    Participation Rate rises to 62.7%

    Workweek Hours increase to 34.6

    Wages increase 0.5%

    ReplyDelete
  8. The PA is ISIL of the West bank

    Just hours after the deadly terrorist attack at Damascus Gate in Jerusalem in which Israeli border policewoman Hadar Cohen was murdered and four other Israelis were wounded, Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmud Abbas (Abu Mazen) met with the families of the terrorists, whom he called "martyrs," on Wednesday and vowed to help bring back their bodies and rebuild homes of terrorists that were demolished by the IDF.

    Slain policewoman, 19, hailed as heroine at her funeralMinister praises Hadar Cohen’s bravery during Jerusalem attack; ‘How much longer will we endure this senseless hatred?’ asks her sister

    Police said the 19-year-old, who was shot in the head by one of the Palestinian gunmen, managed to return fire before losing consciousness, helping to thwart a potentially worse attack by the three assailants.

    She was part of a three-person squad that spotted three Palestinians behaving in a suspicious manner and asked to see their identification papers. As one attacker withdrew his ID card, the others opened fire and pulled out knives to attack the officers. The three were shot dead by officers at the scene.

    The culture of palestinians is that of savages.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What is "Occupation"Fri Feb 05, 09:04:00 AM EST

      The PA is ISIL of the West bank

      ...


      blah blah blah. This is the same as every Tom Dick and Harry in the Middle East claiming that they are fighting "terrorists".

      Delete
    2. Ash,

      What do you call a culture that celebrates suicide bombers? A government that praises those who attempt to murder men women, babies, cops?

      Ash, really, I hope that these savages attack your loved ones one day.

      Delete
    3. AND I notice that Ash cannot actually make a retort about my comment which still stands.


      The PA is the ISIL of the West Bank.

      Delete
    4. ...Ash, really, I hope that these savages attack your loved ones one day.

      Maggot

      Delete
    5. If an Israeli had walked up to a Palestinian policeman at the border and shot him in the head?

      You'd be besides yourself.

      Delete
    6. Maybe that's what it will have to happen, the Jews will have to lower themselves to the savages around them. When Palestinians throw rocks at people's cars on the highway? Maybe Jews should do the same.

      When Hamas fires rockets at the civilians of Israel? Israel should shoot randomly without warning back at the gazans.

      Maybe some Israelis should walk into some palestinian schools and submachine gun some kids and teachers? After all Abbas just named as a nation hero a palestinian lady who DID JUST THAT.

      Well that's just a fantasy because the Jews of Israel are not savages...

      Delete
    7. Isn't that what the British said about the American revolutionary fighters - 'stand up, line up, march and fight light a man, don't hide behind the trees like the savages!"

      Delete
    8. The Israeli kill a Palestinian child every three days, on average.

      Payback is going to be a bitch.

      The Zionists have made their bed, soon they will get to die in it.
      Those Palestinians are coming of age, and the Israeli have radicalized 'em
      So get used to it, "O"rdure.

      Delete
  9. Hamas wanting another war with Israel.

    “The tunnels reach deep into the territory occupied in 1948,” said the Hamas official during the funeral for one of the fighters. “The [tunnels] reach [further] than Gaza.”

    Hamas Terror Tunnels Reach Deep Into Israel, Gaza Official Warns

    A senior Hamas official warned Wednesday that the Palestinian terrorist group’s efforts to rebuild the Gaza Strip’s terror tunnel grid are advancing rapidly, and that some tunnels dug under the border already run deep into Israeli territory.

    “Israeli technology will not be able to stop the resistance as long as Hamas exists,” Hamas official Mahmoud al-Zahar told Oman-based Alwatan News. “Even if Israel is able to uncover a tunnel, or two, or 10, they [the tunnels] run deep under Israel, beyond Gaza, into 1948 territory.”

    He added that regardless of the tunnel grid, Hamas had “other advanced measures” with which it could fight Israel. The Israeli military had destroyed Hamas’s terror tunnel network during Operation Protective Edge in the summer of 2014.


    So when the war starts? And Hamas attacks Israel?

    Let's be clear.

    Hamas like war more than fresh water.

    ReplyDelete
  10. .

    If Obama uses executive action to place a $10/barrel tax on the American oil industry (if such a thing is legal and possible, who the hell knows these days), it will IMO

    1. Kill the US oil industry
    2. Damage America's energy independence and security
    3. Do Saudi Arabia's job for it.

    .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. When oil was at 140 a barrel I suggested that the USA should put a minimum price tax on imported oil if the price dropped below $60. The idea was if the international price was 40? Then an import tariff of $20 would be collected and directed to support alternative energies.

      Of course the time to do that was when the price was sky high, now? Such a though would be insane and your points are dead on.

      Delete
    2. .

      Again IMO, this is merely political pap directed to his base. There is no way this would pass Congress now and regardless who takes the presidency and the senate this year, the House will remain with the GOP.

      Instead of offering up something that could happen like a gasoline tax increase, something that would piss off the public, he would rather offer up something that has no chance of passing but which would be popular with his base.

      He states the obvious, our infrastructure is falling apart but instead of offering up something practical he offers bubblegum and unicorns

      This is one of the reasons I continue to argue his stimulus program was so pitiful. Instead of using the money to improve our failing infrastructure he used the money for things like a cut in the FICA taxes, an insignificant amount on an individual basis which studies indicate went into savings rather than into the economy.

      More political grandstanding.

      IMO.

      .

      Delete
  11. SOUTHWEST ASIA, February 5, 2016 — U.S. and coalition military forces have continued to attack Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant terrorists in Syria and Iraq, Combined Joint Task Force Operation Inherent Resolve officials reported today.

    Officials reported details of the latest strikes, noting that assessments of results are based on initial reports.

    Strikes in Syria

    Attack, fighter and remotely piloted aircraft conducted nine strikes in Syria:

    -- Near Raqqah, a strike struck an ISIL staging area.

    -- Near Hawl, a strike struck an ISIL tactical unit and destroyed two ISIL fighting positions.

    -- Near Ayn Isa, a strike struck an ISIL tactical unit and destroyed an ISIL vehicle.

    -- Near Manbij, four strikes struck four separate ISIL tactical units and destroyed an ISIL building and two ISIL fighting positions.

    -- Near Mar’a, two strikes struck an ISIL tactical unit and destroyed an ISIL vehicle and an ISIL command and control node.

    Strikes in Iraq

    Bomber, fighter, ground attack and remotely piloted aircraft conducted 21 strikes in Iraq, coordinated with and in support of Iraq’s government:

    -- Near Fallujah, two strikes struck a large ISIL tactical unit and destroyed an ISIL mortar position.

    -- Near Habbaniyah, two strikes struck a large ISIL tactical unit and destroyed an ISIL rocket position, an ISIL fighting position and an ISIL boat.

    -- Near Kisik, a strike destroyed an ISIL bomb-making facility.

    -- Near Mosul, five strikes struck four separate ISIL tactical units and destroyed six ISIL fighting positions, six ISIL weapon caches, three ISIL assembly areas and an ISIL vehicle.

    -- Near Qayyarah, two strikes struck an ISIL tactical unit and destroyed three ISIL rocket positions, an ISIL weapons cache and two ISIL fighting positions.

    -- Near Ramadi, three strikes struck two separate ISIL tactical units and destroyed three ISIL staging areas, four ISIL weapon caches, an ISIL bed down location and an ISIL vehicle.

    -- Near Sinjar, two strikes struck two separate ISIL tactical units.

    -- Near Sultan Abdallah, three strikes struck an ISIL tactical unit and destroyed five ISIL assembly areas, an ISIL weapons cache and two ISIL command and control nodes.

    -- Near Tikrit, a strike destroyed an ISIL vehicle.

    DOD

    ReplyDelete
  12. .

    you say....

    We might not understand God's will but we must obey it willingly.

    And YET Abraham DID NOT OBEY

    He used a ram INSTEAD of his human son.



    The full text of Genesis 22 is here


    http://www.bartleby.com/108/01/22.html

    The money verses are...

    1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
    2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Mori'ah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
    3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him


    and

    7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
    8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
    9 ¶ And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar Jas. 2.21 upon the wood.
    10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
    11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
    12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son, from me.

    13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. Heb. 11.17-19


    and

    15 ¶ And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
    16 and said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son,
    17 that in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed Heb.
    6.13, 14 as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; Heb. 11.12 and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;


    I don't know how anyone can read these verses and conclude that Abraham refused to obey God. When he was ordered to kill his son he prepared the altar and raised the knife. The only reason he didn't kill him was because the angel stopped him. There is no doubt from the text that God was pleased. Seeing that Abraham was willing to go balls out to do God's will he rewarded him.


    Once again. You lack the original POV.

    Time to go to school Quick you POV is rooted in inaccuracies


    :o)

    You'll pardon me but in IMO it is you misreading the text in order to offer us some PC version of this story. Sounds like Chapter 4: The Bible from WiO's Alternate History of the World, the Universe, and Everything

    .


    ReplyDelete
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    1. You are reading from only 1/2 of the text.

      It's not your fault that you do not respect the jewish people or it's scriptures enough to read the entire passage in both the oral and written Torahs.

      Your mickey mouse translation does not explain shit.

      But either way, Abraham DID NOT kill his son.

      Thus he did not obey..

      Might I suggest you take a course on judaism before offering ideas about our stories?

      Delete
    2. Even in your PARTIAL reposting it shows that Abraham did not obey.

      And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

      Delete
  13. Well, getting back to the topic ...

    FGM i not an Islamic tradition, according to the top ranked pice in the Google search on the subject of "FGM Islam"

    One fundamental of the Islamic law is that what is not prohibited is allowed.

    This makes for a great deal of tolerance in the religious law.
    As a result of this tolerance many pre-Islamic practices were not immediately eradicated by Islam.

    When such practices came to be unpopular (or unfashionable) in future centuries, the tolerance of Islamic jurisprudence was mischaracterized by those inimical to Islam as "backward."

    It was as if someone from a genteel class of society were to condemn America's toleration for body piercing among its young people as proof of the "barbarism" of American law.

    It would be wise to remember that there is a great burden of proof that Islam puts upon those who wish to prohibit a practice, and that the requirement for such proof is a strength of the Islamic law. Toleration is a strength, not a weakness.

    In this discussion I shall refer to any form of permanent cutting the genitals as "genital mutilation." Some may feel this is prejudicing the case, since the words certainly sound pejorative. I think the term is fair, however, since the purpose of all the procedures under discussion–and the purpose of male circumcision and of the now commonly practiced forms of body piercing, including the piercing of the ears done by almost every Western female–is unquestionably to mutilate those parts of the body cut or pierced.

    The issue of interest, then, is not whether mutilation is involved but rather whether it is religiously (or morally) and/or medically desirable or contraindicated.

    Although there is no reference to circumcision at all in the Qur'an, there is a well-established tradition of male circumcision in Islam as a "sunnah" act. In the Abrahamic tradition this act is understood as a fulfillment of a covenant with God, but there are numerous health reasons for the practice.

    There is no mandate at all for female circumcision, however, neither in the Qur'an, the traditional reports (called hadith), nor medical theory.

    Although female circumcision is not mandated, one tradition of disputed authenticity permits (but does not encourage) the removal of a minuscule segment of skin from the female prepuce, provided no harm is done:

    A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina [Madîna]. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said to her:
    'Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband.'–Sunan Abu Dawûd, Book 41, #5251.

    One does not want to make too much of this tradition, as it is classified as "weak" by Abu Dawud (the compiler) himself.

    Nonetheless, it clearly forbids severity in circumcision and bases such limitation on both the potential to harm the woman and the potential to make her less desirable to her husband.

    Yet, despite the restriction against severity, the Prophet did not here prohibit circumcision completely.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies

    1. Permitting such a ritual constitutes an act of tolerance by Islamic law for pre-Islamic practices, and may be overruled by the Islamic prohibition against harmful acts.

      Consider, for example, that Islamic law protects a woman's right to sexual enjoyment, as demonstrated by the fact that a woman has the right to divorce on the grounds that her husband does not provide sexual satisfaction. It follows that Islamic law prohibits clitorodectomy (partial or complete removal of the clitoris) or infibulation (excision of part or all of the external genitalia and stitching/narrowing of the vaginal opening), or any genital mutilation which impairs the woman's ability to enjoy sexual relations. Such prohibitions are consistent with the hadithic warning against severity in female circumcision.

      If the Islamic law does not mandate female genital mutilation and tolerates only the most mild form of circumcision (and that only if it produces no adverse effects in the child), then how does it come about that so many people from certain countries with large Muslim populations insist that savage acts which exceed these limits are not only permitted, but required by Islamic law?

      The answer becomes obvious when one realizes that Christians from many of these countries also insist that the tradition is mandated by their religion as well.

      People often confuse traditions rooted in local culture with religious requirements.



      FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION: AN ISLAMIC PERSPECTIVE

      by Imad-ad-Dean Ahmad, Ph.D.

      Minaret of Freedom Institute

      http://www.minaret.org/fgm-pamphlet.htm

      Delete
  14. .

    You are reading from only 1/2 of the text.

    Bull. I gave you a link which shows the entirety of Genesis 22. All you had to do is click on the link to see it all.

    It's not your fault that you do not respect the jewish people or it's scriptures enough to read the entire passage in both the oral and written Torahs.

    I read the entire passage. I put up the sections addressing the subject of our discussion.
    Admittedly, I am no Jew but I find it hard to understand how I can 'read' an 'oral' Torah. Also, with regard respecting the Jewish people, at least I respect them enough to capitalize the word Jewish.


    But either way, Abraham DID NOT kill his son.

    Thus he did not obey..


    Christ, WiO, are you that stupid? He was ready to kill his son. He had the knife in his hand. The intent was there. He would have killed him EXCEPT that God intervened and stopped him and ORDERED him NOT TO KILL HIS SON. After that, had he actually gone ahead and killed his son he would ACTUALLY have been DISOBEYING God. I know its a long passage but anyone who can read ought to be able to get its meaning.

    Might I suggest you take a course on judaism before offering ideas about our stories?

    If I ever do, it sure as hell won't be wherever you took yours. Might I suggest you take a reading comprehension class.

    Even in your PARTIAL reposting it shows that Abraham did not obey.

    Fuck you and your PARTIAL reposting. If you weren't so damn lazy all you had to do is click on the link I provided. Only, a moron or an illiterate, after reading Genesis 22 would argue that Moses didn't obey the dictates of God.

    Where do you come up with this stuff?

    .




    ReplyDelete
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    1. "A heathen who studies the Torah deserves death … it is our inheritance, not theirs … he is as guilty as one who violates a bethrothed maiden."

      Glancing at the Jewish Encyclopedia section on "Gentiles" we see that Rabbi Simon ben Yohai's edict is: "The best among the Gentiles deserves to be killed."


      The Talmudic authority which holds that Gentile property is like unclaimed land in the desert is the Talmud Book of Baba Bathra, Folio 54b, there cited. The passage actually appears on page 222 of the Soncino edition: "Rab Judah said in the name of Samuel: The property of a heathen is on the same footing as desert land; whoever first occupies it acquires ownership."

      Delete

    2. ... "desert land; whoever first occupies it acquires ownership."


      Ecept for in Zionist Isael

      The Israeli government has, to a large extent, continued the Ottoman legal system in regard to land ownership. 

      Thus, today the vast proportion of land within the State of Israel (roughly 93%) is owned and managed either by the Israel Lands Administration (ILA) or the JNF.  This figure includes much of such extensive regions as the Negev and the Judean Wilderness (near the Dead Sea), which are sparsely populated. 

      Jewish settlements in the State of Israel usually are located on lands that are owned by the ILA or the JNF and that have been consigned to each settlement through long-term leases. 

      Less than 7% of the land in the State of Israel is privately owned.

      http://elearning.la.psu.edu/jst060/lesson_2/land-ownership

      Delete
  15. The next source discuses Egypt ...

    Female Genital Mutilation occurs in non-Muslim societies in Africa and is practiced by Christians, Muslims and Animists alike.

    In Egypt, where perhaps 97 percent of girls suffer genital mutilation, both Christian Copts and Muslims are complicit. Thus, it has long been concluded to be a cultural practice, not connected to religion.

    However, on the village level, those who commit the practice offer a mix of cultural and religious reasons for the practice. Christians and Muslims alike believe that circumcision of girls prevents them from vice and makes them more attractive for future husbands; mothers fear that their daughters can’t get married if they have not been cut.


    http://www.stopfgmmideast.org/background/islam-or-culture/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies

    1. While there is no mention of FGM in the Quran, a Hadith (saying about the life of the prophet) recounts a debate between Muhammed and Um Habibah (or Um ‘Atiyyah). This woman, known as an exciser of female slaves, was one of a group of women who had immigrated with Muhammed. Having seen her, Muhammad asked her if she kept practicing her profession. She answered affirmatively, adding: “unless it is forbidden, and you order me to stop doing it.” Muhammed replied: “Yes, it is allowed. Come closer so I can teach you: if you cut, do not overdo it, because it brings more radiance to the face, and it is more pleasant for the husband.”[2]

      Most clerics use this hadith to say circumcision is recommended, but not obligatory for women. But some say it is obligatory. While others who take a position against FGM call this hadith weak in relation to the “do no harm” principle of Islam or interpret the intention of the prophet differently.

      An often heard interpretation is: “Islam condones the sunna circumcision … What is forbidden in Islam is the pharaonic circumcision,” like Sheikh Omer from Ethiopia explained in an interview with IRIN. Others, such as the late rector of Al-Azhar University, Sheikh Gad al-Haq, said that since the Prophet did not ban female circumcision, it was permissible and, at the very least, could not be banned.

      In Egypt this position has long been overturned by Al-Azhar Sheikhs. Today, the Grand Mufti of Egypt Ali Gomar says: “The practice must be stopped in support of one of the highest values of Islam, namely to do no harm to another – in accordance with the commandment of the Prophet Mohammed “Accept no harm and do no harm to another.” This is echoed by many other Islamic scholars who have released Fatwas against FGM, however, the mainstream opinion still seems to by what the Grand Mufti of Oman Ahmed Al Khalili replied when asked for an opinion by an activist: “Even though its not an operation you must perform on women, we can’t describe it as a crime against women or as a violation of women’s rights.”

      Delete
  16. QuirkFri Feb 05, 03:40:00 PM EST
    .

    You are reading from only 1/2 of the text.

    Bull. I gave you a link which shows the entirety of Genesis 22. All you had to do is click on the link to see it all.

    It's not your fault that you do not respect the jewish people or it's scriptures enough to read the entire passage in both the oral and written Torahs.

    I read the entire passage. I put up the sections addressing the subject of our discussion.
    Admittedly, I am no Jew but I find it hard to understand how I can 'read' an 'oral' Torah. Also, with regard respecting the Jewish people, at least I respect them enough to capitalize the word Jewish.


    Except you are dismissive to what you do not understand.

    Go and learn.

    Don't be so arrogant. It doesn't become you.

    You can learn a lot if you put your snide, know it all ego aside.

    Yes there is an Oral Torah, and yes you can study it and it is written down.

    But you might want to take a class on it.

    And no, you don't KNOW shit about what is the Torah. Written and Oral

    Your mickey mouse Reader's digest VERSION of the Jewish Scriptures is enough to make you dangerous but not a scholar.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. .

      This story is a little long but not unduly so. The link I put up outlines the story as reported in the King James Bible. It is in English. Unless you are saying the translation to English is incorrect or alternatively that the entire Torah was written in code and actually means the exact opposite of what it says, I can only conclude that you are nutz.

      .

      Delete
  17. quirk the illiterate says:

    Christ, WiO, are you that stupid? He was ready to kill his son. He had the knife in his hand. The intent was there. He would have killed him EXCEPT that God intervened and stopped him and ORDERED him NOT TO KILL HIS SON. After that, had he actually gone ahead and killed his son he would ACTUALLY have been DISOBEYING God. I know its a long passage but anyone who can read ought to be able to get its meaning.

    1. CHRIST has NOTHING to do with it...

    2. He did NOT kill his son. He killed a RAM.

    GO and learn then come back and argue the topic with intelligence.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. .

      2. He did NOT kill his son. He killed a RAM.

      This is entirely irrelevant to the question of whether Abraham disobeyed God's command

      1. First, God ordered him to sacrifice his son. He had the knife in his hand and was ready to obey by killing Isaac when God told him to stop, that he had seen enough to know Abraham was ready to obey his order. The intent was there. There is no doubt Abraham was ready to obey God's command.

      2. Then, based on what he had seen, God reversed himself and issues a SUPERSEDING order telling Abraham not to sacrifice his son. Naturally, Abraham was perfectly willing to obey this second order also.

      Its crazy to argue that at any point in this story Abraham was disobeying the latest commands he had received from God.

      .

      Delete
    2. wow making it up as you go?

      go back and read your previous post.....


      "My view, and many would agree, is it is meant as a lesson on faith. The lesson is that God is inscrutable. As puny humans we can't hope to understand God's morality. We must simply accept his will and obey. It is the same lesson we are taught in the story of Job. We might not understand God's will but we must obey it willingly."

      You sir are a moron.

      You read lines from the translated written Torah and claim to know?

      Again, go and learn. then come back and have an intelligent conversation..



      Delete
  18. Quirk, the Scholar states: If I ever do, it sure as hell won't be wherever you took yours. Might I suggest you take a reading comprehension class.



    Might I suggest you learn about Torah and what it is before commenting on it?

    You sound really quite stupid.

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    1. .

      I don't need to 'learn about Torah' in order to read and understand simple English.

      .

      Delete
    2. QuirkFri Feb 05, 05:43:00 PM EST
      .

      I don't need to 'learn about Torah' in order to read and understand simple English.



      Torah is written in Hebrew and Aramaic.

      You read a reader's digest version and profess to understand...

      You are a nitwit

      Delete
  19. Quirk, once again.

    2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Mori'ah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.


    Abraham DID not KILL his son, he offered up a RAM instead.

    Embrace the fact that you are not all knowledgable.

    Go and learn.

    Then come back and talk.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. .

      You, sir, are an idiot.

      The fact that there was a ram available either through serendipity or the hand of God and that Abraham sacrificed it either out of gratitude or simply as an act of worship is after the fact and irrelevant to the decision making process. The text clearly states that God's promises to Abraham were based on the fact that Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son.

      10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
      11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
      12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son, from me.


      The fact that Abraham was given two conflicting orders from God and was willing to obey them both in the order they were given seems to elude you. To argue that Abraham disobeyed God's orders is absurd.

      While the implications of this story can be argued about, the actual facts as stated in Genesis 22 are very simple and decipherable to anyone who has passed a high school English Composition class.

      One doesn't have to be all knowledgeable to know when one is dealing with a guy who is not the sharpest tool in the box.

      .

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    2. .

      Your being Jewish would normally lend you the presumption of authority when it comes to the Jewish holy book; however, when you offer up that black is actually white you forfeit that presumption.

      .

      Delete
    3. Your arrogance speaks volume of your lack of character.

      Rather than simply do some googling and learn something you stoop to insults.

      Says quite a bit about you

      Delete
    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    5. .

      In fact, I have googled. And my initial statement stands,

      I think you interpretation is wrong. And before you say that is because I am uneducated remember that the question has been debated for thousands of years by educated people, biblical scholars, and philosophers such as Kierkegaard.

      My view, and many would agree, is it is meant as a lesson on faith. The lesson is that God is inscrutable. As puny humans we can't hope to understand God's morality. We must simply accept his will and obey. It is the same lesson we are taught in the story of Job. We might not understand God's will but we must obey it willingly.


      Mine was a simple statement indicating disagreement with your view and indicating that there have been numerous takes on the story throughout the millennia ranging from my view that it was a test of faith, to yours of disobedience, to it being a punishment, to Abraham actually killing his son.

      You talk of my arrogance?

      What of your pomposity and condescension?

      Once again. You lack the original POV.

      Time to go to school Quick you POV is rooted in inaccuracies


      :o)

      My take on the story seems to be shared with a good many Jewish commentators. Given you performance here on numerous occasions on numerous subjects it is unlikely I would take your view over theirs.

      .

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  20. Yesterday "O"rdure proved he could not write English, today he proves he cannot read it, either.

    He does have an English comprehension problem, no doubt about it.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Jack "I have killed children" Hawkins, your comments are quite amusing. After all you are the one that uses out of context, disinformation and down right lies to express yourself, regardless of your English skills.

      Delete
    2. It be interesting for you to show us,, "O"rdure, the disinformation and down right lies ...

      But, we all know you cannot.

      Delete
  21. QuirkFri Feb 05, 05:40:00 PM EST
    .

    You, sir, are an idiot.



    Once again you are an arrogant old prick.

    rather than expand your mind you must prove your correctness and you don't even have a clue what you are talking about.

    Go and learn, do some investigation and stop making a fool out of yourself.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Go back to your 'medical' practice of reversing circumcisions, Quirk.

      Delete
  22. I knew this thread would degenerate into one of the dumbest ever.

    It's an etiological legend about turning away from child sacrifice, which was practiced by the neighbors.

    It can be seen as also more than that, but that's basic.



    Man, that Deuce sure takes that circumcision stuff seriously.....

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Every time anyone is foolish enough to pop a bottle cap with Hitch you're in for an evening of bull shit.


      Excellent things happened today.

      Cheers !

      Delete
    2. To me, story of Abraham and Isaac doesn't sound like the J writer. It sounds like a tale told around the camp fires.

      The story of high humor of Abraham bargaining with THE RULER OF ALL THAT IS to save a few folks in Sodom and Gemorra sounds like the J writer, but that's just me.


      Some really really really wonderful things happened today !

      I'm not wasting any more time reading the bullshit of Ash, Quirk, rat'sass and Deuce.

      Off the topic here......


      Cheers Cheers Cheers !!!

      Delete