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Friday, February 24, 2012

Who is paying the price for Iranian sanctions?

The media has picked up a new refrain and it goes that the Iranian threat is causing oil and gasoline prices to go up. Those increasing prices will add more misery to the home economy of a huge percentage of the US population but they are not being caused by the Iranian threat. Gasoline prices are going up because of US and European economic threats and action against Iran.


According to the following article, 25% of the US population pays half their income on housing costs. This is further indication of the  terrible condition of the US housing market. Add to this misery, increasing energy prices and  the economic situation worsens for US households.  


You cannot listen to any talk radio program without hearing some cheery voice telling you how to make money on the opportunities offered by the foreclosure mess. The same so called right-wing radio is calling for more  misery  by demanding more US military action against Iran and that misery will fall on the bottom half of US households.


I would argue that right-wing values should be those that fight for nationalist objectives on doing what is best for the USA and the economic security of US households, the basic guardians of family values.


Let ’s at least tell the truth: Oil prices are not going up because of Iranian threats. Oil prices are going up because of western actions against the Iranian economy. The aggression is against Iran and not the other way around. The lower half of US households, as usual are those that will pay the price for the stupidity of their rulers and masters. 


_____________________


More households spend half of pay on housing
Renters hit hardest, with rent costs rising as income falls

By Amy Hoak, MarketWatch

CHICAGO (MarketWatch) — With rent and other housing costs rising and incomes falling, a growing share of working households are spending more than half of their income on housing, according to a new report from the Center for Housing Policy.

In 2010, about 24% of U.S. households paid more than half of their income on housing costs, compared with about 22% in 2008, the report said.

In its report, the Center, which is the research arm of the National Housing Conference, a nonprofit affordable-housing advocate, used U.S. Census data from 2008 to 2010 on housing costs and income.

For homeowners, housing costs included first and second mortgage payments, property taxes, insurance, homeowner association fees and utilities. For renters, housing costs included rent and utility costs.

Renters were hit particularly hard in recent years, as incomes decreased and rents rose. Incomes among renters fell 4%, while renters’ housing costs rose 4%, the report said.

“More and more people are interested in renting,” said Laura Williams, research associate at the Center for Housing Policy and author of the report, in a news release. “Some prefer it because it allows them to be more mobile in a tough job market. Others are postponing purchasing a home or facing difficulties obtaining a mortgage.”

Supply of rental properties is tight, and adding new inventory takes a while: There’s a long lead time between the when demand is identified and product materializes. In the meantime, the rental market has tightened, and rents went up as vacancy rates fell, Williams said.

But homeowners are also struggling: While housing costs fell about 2% for them during the two years, household incomes fell more than twice as much, mainly due to the decrease in the median number of hours worked each week. Homeowners’ income fell 5% during the period, according to the report.

“One of the big underlying points of the study is that sometimes the broader trends we see in the market aren’t reflected in the real-life experience of the individual,” said Jeffrey Lubell, executive director of the Center, in a phone interview.

“In the market, we’ve seen a decline in home prices and people think that housing is affordable,” he said, although a look at the income data shows that isn’t the case. Many working homeowners have had to deal with layoffs or reduced hours, he said.

There also has been a drop in working households overall, according to the report. There were 45.1 million working households in 2010 — about half of those homeowners and half renters — down almost 5% from 47.3 million in 2008. A “working household” is one in which a member worked at least 20 hours a week and had household income of no more than 120% of the median income for the area.

California was the state with the highest share — 34% — of working households who spend more than half of their income on housing.

California was followed by Florida, where 33% of households spend more than half of their income on housing; New Jersey, 32%; Hawaii, 30%; and Nevada, 29%.

The metro areas with the highest share of households spending more than half of income on housing, in order: Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach; Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana; San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos; Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, Calif.; and New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island.

97 comments:

  1. If Iran is a threat to Israel, then Israel should be left alone and let Israelis decide what is and what is not a threat to their country. Iran would be insane to attack Israel but if Iran did such a stupid thing, Israel would punish Iran in a way that would destroy Iran.

    Our continued meddling in affairs that do not concern us makes things worse for the regular American families and I would argue for the average Israeli family as well.

    The world does not need our help in all matters at all times. Why is that so hard to understand?

    We always hear about the value of less government and its interference in our lives. That is the US government, the same government that sees the necessity to interfere in the business of other countries.

    Let’s practice what we preach and quit fucking with everyone here and abroad.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Line of the day....

    " The aggression is against Iran and not the other way around. "

    Maybe they should hold up signs at their "death to America" rallies?

    Or maybe they could stencil that on the 100,000 hezbollah rockets?

    Or even better yet they could write that on the 18,000 centrifuges that are spinning enriched bomb quality uranium?

    Yep it's all America's fault..

    Those peaceful Iranians want nothing but to be left alone....


    I wonder how does sand in the mouth cause your head is in the sand taste?

    ReplyDelete
  3. If Iran is a threat to USA and we ignore it?


    we are one stupid people

    ReplyDelete
  4. Iran aint ONLY Israel's issue and to think that is nonsense.

    It's the world's

    But if America wants to withdraw and be the isolationist nation that some want?

    help yourselves.

    you are inviting the world into chaos

    ReplyDelete
  5. I wonder when Iran hits the USA from a mobil missile platform in the middle of the atlantic with a emp will those same people be screaming for the head of our leaders for not "predicting" such an outcome.


    Iran is on the path to have nukes.

    In 2006 it had the ability to launch an icbm

    They can already hit a range of almost 2000 miles with conventional rockets.

    If you do not think they wish to squash the sunni control of the oil supply? you are dreaming.

    ignore Iran at your own peril.

    I guess the thousands of Americans limbless, wounded and or killed by Iranian IED's tell you nothing...

    I guess Iranian meddling in the Americas with drug cartels and gangs mean nothing to you...

    I guess Iranian support for Hezbollah, Hamas and Syria is not an American issue?

    I guess that Iranian hit squads IN AMERICA means nothing to you...

    I guess when the mullah chant "death to America" they really dont mean it...

    I guess that murderous actions from iran towards America since 1978 doesnt mean anything...

    ReplyDelete
  6. I've guessed they already have a bomb or three myself.

    So if Israel wipes Iran off the face of the earth no one is going to complain?

    Iran with the bomb, can Saudi Arabia be far behind? What about Egypt? And others? This spinning top is going to topple over, sooner or later.


    Dingo Baby Lady Back In News

    I remember when this happened. Movie was made out of the incident. Latest evidence on dingo behavior is that a wild dog could well have made off with the baby.

    ReplyDelete
  7. The wife of Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan, an Iranian nuclear scientist who was assassinated in Tehran in January, said Tuesday that her husband "sought the annihilation of the Zionist regime wholeheartedly," according to Iran's semi-official Fars news agency.

    "Mostafa's ultimate goal was the annihilation of Israel," the agency quoted Fatemeh Bolouri Kashani as saying Tuesday.

    Bolouri Kashani also underlined that her spouse "loved any resistance figure in his life who was willing to fight the Zionist regime and supported the rights of the oppressed Palestinian nation."

    ReplyDelete
  8. :) I posted about that scientist, under the idea we should not turn to the scientists concerning ethical behavior, as one of the anonomii had suggested.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Iran aint just after the destruction of Israel

    Israel is the canary in the mines.

    to think otherwise is either willful ignorance or amazing case of being naive.

    which is it?

    Iran a nation that uses mass rape, killing of civilians, murder of diplomats and supports actual terrorism against civilians of those it oppresses is not a rational actor...

    Iran a nation that actually has cut the water supply to millions of it's OWN citizens to create death in areas with the wrong minority.

    Maybe instead of posts about how Iran is really not the issue, you'd do something to look into Iran.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Iran is going to be a problem whether israel is part of the issue or not...

    ReplyDelete
  11. The only problem with Iran is they're going to run out of oil some day.

    Instead of listening to the internal political speeches, it would behoove us to look at what they actually "Do."

    And, if you observe their actions, you will notice that they are, actually, very conservative vis a vis "not biting off more than they can chew."

    Those old Mullahs haven't reached the Zenith of Iranian Politics, and become Billionaires in the process, because they want to be wiped out in the flash of an Israeli Nuke.

    ReplyDelete
  12. And, it doesn't matter, anyway. If Iran wants nukes, Iran will have nukes. There is absolutely no way on earth of keeping a nation the size and complexity of Iran from developing a nuclear weapon if they desire one.

    You can Invade them, and Occupy them for awhile, but you can't do it Forever.

    Didn't "Pakistan" teach us anything?

    ReplyDelete
  13. WiO: we are one stupid people

    WiO speaks only for himself and his tribe.

    $14M grant for development of algae for fuel. Son of Solyndra. How long til the whack job environuts claim algae is endangered?

    By the way, thanks taxpayers! Solyndra employees are getting bonuses. For what?

    Photographs attached to the iStar court filing provide an inside look at Solyndra’s stripped-down facility after the company hauled away whatever equipment might fetch money at auction.

    In one picture, two large blue drums are filled with a black substance with no secure lids and covered instead with clear plastic wrap. Another photograph shows a yellow drum about the size of a large garbage can containing a yellow-brown gooey substance.

    Yet another picture shows a large machine with a metallic tube coming from the top and another tube from the side. Both tubes display the words “lead exhaust.” A smaller sign on the front of the machine says “toxic” next to what appears to be a small skull and crossbones. A large structure outside the facility has the words “Argon Refrigerated Liquid” on its side.

    ----
    Sharia In America: Muslim Judge dismisses case after lecturing victim for insulting prophet Muhammad

    ReplyDelete
  14. No, Wio is right on this one. We Are the stupidest beings in the Universe.

    Well, the oil companies have played us for the stone, rube-ass hicks that we truly are.

    We will, later in the year, have E85 selling for $2.40/gal, and Unleaded selling for $4.00/gal, and there's not an ethanol-optimized car in sight.

    We're drilling 18,000 feet below a mile of water, and cracking rocks to get the last little drabs of oil out of the ground,

    and paying landowners Not to Plant 30,000,000 acres.

    This, in spite of the fact that the X-Prize, and Indycar/Nascar Drivers have proven that, with the technology in place, we can get as many miles per gallon with ethanol as with gasoline (and with more power.)

    ReplyDelete
  15. Wasp said...
    WiO: we are one stupid people

    WiO speaks only for himself and his tribe.



    How to respond to that?

    Well...

    Think of this...

    Ms T, aka Teresita, aka ZENA, aka Wasp, pretended to be a lesbian for years...

    and this blog was so stupid to believe her or anything she said...

    In this case?

    I wasnt stupid, i knew you were full of shit the moment you started posting...

    ReplyDelete
  16. Rufus, you keep saying demand for gas is down, and it will only go down more as 1) prices rise with the Iran premium and 2) people trade in their 11 year old hoopties for new cars with better mileage. On the freeway I can get my 2010 Focus up to 42 MPG.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Dont wantiran to go nuke?

    Make oil meaningless.

    Convert the truck and bus fleet to natural gas.

    Set up 10,000 cellulose refineries in every county of the USA

    give tax credits for geo-thermal energy and for solar panel ON BUSINESSES rooftops. (that will not help the oil issue but it will relieve strain on the electric grid and reduce the gasoline needed to dig and move coal)

    there are many things we could do if we were motivated and not so stupid.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Wasp said...
    Rufus, you keep saying demand for gas is down, and it will only go down more as 1) prices rise with the Iran premium and 2) people trade in their 11 year old hoopties for new cars with better mileage. On the freeway I can get my 2010 Focus up to 42 MPG.



    no wonder you are a government employee, dumber than a rock....

    ReplyDelete
  19. WiO never responds to anyone's objections to his assertions even remotely related to the topic of the day, he just hits F11 and a Emacs macro or Python script automatically posts kilobytes of stuff to this blog about me lying about my preferences for salad dressing, fruits, colors, dog breeds, bed partners, and operating systems. And he thinks other people give a shit.

    ReplyDelete
  20. T, demand is falling, HERE.

    However, Demand is Surging in Asia, and in the oil-exporting countries, themselves.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Wasp said...
    WiO never responds to anyone's objections to his assertions even remotely related to the topic of the day, he just hits F11 and a Emacs macro or Python script automatically posts kilobytes of stuff to this blog about me lying about my preferences for salad dressing, fruits, colors, dog breeds, bed partners, and operating systems. And he thinks other people give a shit.



    wow... such nonsense

    Your lying was about your pretend lesbian status.

    not you dog breed, fruits, colors et al...

    you are one skanky lying twit.

    but the fact?

    You admitted you pulled everyone's chain for YEARS about being a lesbian

    NOT I...

    you are the admitted liar.

    maybe you should get a tattoo in your forehead?

    ReplyDelete
  22. Ex: 18 Million cars were sold in China, alone, in 2011.

    Now, China is a little different than the U.S. We scrap about 13 Million units/yr. When the Chinese build 18 Million, they probably don't scrap a half a million.

    ReplyDelete
  23. China's automobile sales plunged 26.4 percent year-on-year to 1.39 million units in January this year due to lack of demand...

    ReplyDelete
  24. That's a 16.68 Million/Yr rate.

    That said, China does seem to be slowing down a bit. Not surprising, of course, with the no. 1 customer in recession, and their no. 2 customer moving mighty slow.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Wasp said.... And he thinks other people give a shit.


    People should KNOW what a liar you are.

    So when you make verbal attacks against me when none were aimed at you?

    Wasp said...
    WiO: we are one stupid people

    WiO speaks only for himself and his tribe.


    You were not spoken about... You were not the subject... You were in no way involved in my comment.

    But YOU took it upon yourself to launch an insult...

    So?

    I will post again, that you are a self confessed liar and have actually no credibility no matter how many new personas you invent...

    ReplyDelete
  26. All indications are that the regime values its own survival above all. This likely fuels its drive to obtain a nuclear weapon, which it may see as a guarantee against external foes.

    That about describes Israel, France, China, Uk, Russia and the US.

    To the extent the regime defines its interests parochially rather than as national interests, it may also discount the economic suffering of the Iranian people except to the extent it leads to political turmoil.

    How about the national interests and the economic suffering of the US public, facing economic hardship, caused by US political operatives trying to bring Iran to its knees?

    Thus, to be perceived as truly "costly" by the regime, any sanctions or other measures imposed or threatened by the U.S. and our allies must place at risk the regime's interests, including its prospects for survival. What's more, they must threaten those interests so much that the regime is willing to sacrifice something it apparently values greatly -- a nuclear weapon.

    If the US faced a hostile foreign power, that was trying to wreck our banking system, disrupt our trade and surrounded us with every type of hostile military machinery known to mankind what would we do?

    What did we do when the Russians put military assets 90 miles from our borders?

    ReplyDelete
  27. What do we do category - what are we going to do when Iran puts missile bases in Venezuela?

    Aren't they working to do that now?

    ReplyDelete
  28. I've got the whole thing figured out - from energy supplies to Iran to China. All we got to do is hit 'Lotto' every time we play.

    ReplyDelete
  29. A couple of days ago, Israeli Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz told CNBC that Iran was “two to three years” away from slamming a missile into New York, Boston or Washington. Total nonsense. I hope Steinitz is better at finance than military prognostication.

    The Netanyahu regime is hyping Iranian missile threat so the US public will consider the Iranian threat urgent and real. Netanyahu was not too pleased to hear Gen. Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs say it was bullshit. What responsible knowledgable American military analyst believes such crap? The US does not need military advice from Israel’s finance minister.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury during President Reagan’s first term. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal. He has held numerous academic appointments, including the William E. Simon Chair, Center for Strategic and International Studies, Georgetown University, and Senior Research Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University.

    Washington has made tremendous preparations for a military assault on Iran. There is speculation that Washington has called off its two longest running wars–Iraq and Afghanistan–in order to deploy forces against Iran.

    Two of Washington’s fleets have been assigned to the Persian Gulf along with NATO warships. Missiles have been spread amongst Washington’s Oil Emirate and Middle Eastern puppet states. US troops have been deployed in Israel and Kuwait.

    Washington has presented Israel a gift from the hard-pressed american taxpayers of an expensive missile defense system, money spent for Israel when millions of unassisted americans have lost their homes. As no one expects Iran to attack Israel, except in retaliation for an Israeli attack on Iran, the purpose of the missile defense system is to protect Israel from an Iranian response to Israeli aggression against Iran.

    Juan Cole has posted on his blog a map showing 44 US military bases surrounding Iran.

    In addition to the massive military preparations, there is the propaganda war against Iran that has been ongoing since 1979 when Washington’s puppet, the Shah of Iran, was overthrown by the Iranian revolution. Iran is surrounded, but Washington and Israeli propaganda portray Iran as a threatening aggressor nation. In fact, the aggressors are the Washington and Tel Aviv governments which constantly threaten Iran with military attack.

    Neocon warmongers, such as David Goldman, compare the Iranian president to Hitler and declare that only war can stop him.

    Washington’s top military officials have created the impression that an act of Israeli aggression against Iran is a done deal. On February 2 the Washington Post reported that Pentagon chief Leon Panetta believes that Israel is likely to attack Iran in two to four months.

    Also on February 2, Gareth Porter reported that General Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, informed the Israeli government that the US would not join Israel’s aggression against Iran unless Washington had given prior approval for the attack.

    Porter interprets Dempsey’s warning as a strong move by President Obama to deter an attack that would involve Washington in a regional conflagration with Iran. A different way to read Dempsey’s warning is that Obama wants to hold off on attacking Iran until polls show him losing the presidential election. It has generally been the case that the patriotic electorate does not turn out a president who is at war.


    {…}

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  31. {…}
    On February 5, President Obama canceled Dempsey’s warning to Israel when Obama declared that he was in “lockstep” with the Israeli government. Obama is in lockstep with Israel despite the fact that Obama told NBC that “we don’t see any evidence that they [Iran] have those intentions [attacks on the US] or capabilities.” By being in lockstep with Israel and simultaneously calling for a “diplomatic solution,” Obama appeased both the Israel Lobby and Democratic peace groups, thus upping his vote.

    As I wrote previously, this spring is a prime time for attacking Iran, because there is a good chance that Russia will be in turmoil because of its March election. The Russian opposition to Putin is financed by Washington and encouraged by Washington’s statements, especially those of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Whether Putin wins or there is an indecisive result and a run-off election, Washington’s money will put tens of thousands of Russians into the streets, just as Washington’s money created the “Green Revolution” in Iran to protest the presidential elections there.

    On February 4 the former left-wing British newspaper, The Guardian, reported a pre-election protest by 120,000 anti-Putin demonstrators marching in Moscow and demanding “fair elections.” In other words, Washington already has its minions declaring that a win by Putin in March can only signify a stolen election. The problem for Obama is that this spring is too early to tell whether his re-election is threatened by a Republican candidate. Going to war prematurely, especially if the result is a stiff rise in oil prices, is not an aid to re-election.

    The willingness of peoples around the world to be Washington’s puppets instead of loyal citizens of their own countries is why the West has been able to dominate the world during the modern era. There seems to be an infinite supply of foreign leaders who prefer Washington’s money and favor to loyalty to their own countries’ interests.


    {…}

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  32. {…}

    As Karl Marx said, money turns everything into a commodity that can be bought and sold. All other values are defeated–honor, integrity, truth, justice, loyalty, even blood kin. Nothing remains but filthy lucre. Money certainly turned UK prime minister Tony Blair into a political commodity.

    The power of money was brought home to me many years ago. My Ph.D. dissertation chairman found himself in the Nixon administration as Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security affairs. He asked if I would go to Vietnam to administer the aid programs. I was flattered that he thought I had the strength of character to stand up to the corruption that usually defeats the purpose of aid programs, but I declined the assignment.

    The conversation was one I will never forget. Warren Nutter was an intelligent person of integrity. He thought regardless of whether the war was necessary that we had been led into it by deception. He thought democracy could not live with deception, and he objected to government officials who were not honest with the American people. Nutter’s position was that a democratic government had to rely on persuasion, not on trickery. Otherwise, the outcomes were not democratic.

    As Nutter saw it, we were in a war, and we had involved the South Vietnamese. Therefore, we had obligations to them. If we proved to be feckless, the consequence would be to undermine commitments we had made to other countries in our effort
    to contain the Soviet Empire. The Soviet Union, unlike the “terrorist threat” had the potential of being a real threat. People who have come of age after the collapse of the Soviet Union don’t understand the cold war era.

    In the course of the conversation I asked how Washington got so many other governments to do its bidding. He answered, “Money.”

    I asked, “You mean foreign aid?”

    He said, “No, bags of money. We buy the leaders.”

    He didn’t approve of it, but there was nothing he could do about it.

    Purchasing the leadership of their enemies or of potential threats was the Roman way. Timothy H. Parsons in his book, The Rule of Empires, describes the Romans as “deft practitioners of soft power.” Rome preferred to rule the conquered and the potentially hostile through “semiautonomous client kings which the Senate euphemistically termed ‘friends of the Roman people.’ Romans helped cooperative monarchs remain in power with direct payments of coins and material goods. Acceptance of these subsidies signified that an ally deferred to imperial authority, and the Romans interpreted any defiance of their will as an overt revolt. They also intervened freely in local succession disputes to replace unsuitable clients.”

    This is the way Washington rules. Washington’s way of ruling other countries is why there is no “Egyptian Spring,” but a military dictatorship as a replacement for Washington’s discarded puppet Hosni Mubarak, and why European puppet states are fighting Washington’s wars of hegemony in the Middle East, North Africa and Central Asia.

    Washington’s National Endowment for Democracy funds non-governmental organizations (NGOs) that interfere in the internal affairs of other countries. It is through the operations of NGOs that Washington added the former Soviet Republic of Georgia to Washington’s empire, along with the Baltic States, and Eastern European countries.

    Because of the hostility of many Russians to their Soviet past, Russia is vulnerable to Washington’s machinations.

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  33. You can never prove a negative.

    You can't be certain an aquatic monkepotamus doesn't exist until you check every star system in the universe, starting at Arcturus.

    ReplyDelete
  34. As Karl Marx said, money turns everything into a commodity that can be bought and sold. All other values are defeated–honor, integrity, truth, justice, loyalty, even blood kin. Nothing remains but filthy lucre.

    :)

    Blood is thicker than water, but money is thicker than blood.

    I've learned that much in my life.

    (though, it isn't always true, just sometimes)

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  35. Question -

    Why is Ron Paul running ads in Michigan against Rick Santorum when Paul isn't on the ballot there?

    ReplyDelete
  36. Around here, one can never prove T is not gay, even though she says she isn't.

    :)

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  37. Deuce said...
    A couple of days ago, Israeli Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz told CNBC that Iran was “two to three years” away from slamming a missile into New York, Boston or Washington. Total nonsense. I hope Steinitz is better at finance than military prognostication.


    they had icbm abilities in 2006

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  38. deuce: The Netanyahu regime is hyping Iranian missile threat so the US public will consider the Iranian threat urgent and real.


    That your opinion.

    My opinion?

    the threat is real..

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  39. You can never prove a negative.

    So the negative side to a battery isn't actually a negative. It's just the lack of positive?

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  40. In the end?

    Israel will not gamble on the lives of it's citizens when clear and present danger exists in Iran.

    If America is too ignorant or blind to see the threat?

    well America is a big country, does it really matter if one or two cities are nuked? Apparently not to those on this blog.

    to suggest that a "free missile" system given to Israel is somehow keeping Americans out of their homes?

    now that takes the cake...

    utterly ignorant.

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  41. Amazing the armchair generals that learn what they learn by what is said on sunday morning news shows...

    AMAZING...

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  42. Again, I have no problem with Israel doing what it believes to be in its national interest and defense and within its military capabilities. Yuval Steinitz would know best if Israel can afford the price on its own.

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  43. Thousands of enraged Afghans have taken to the streets for a fourth day, after US soldiers inadvertently set fire to copies of the Koran.

    In the deadliest day of unrest so far, at least 12 people died across the country, as mobs charged at US bases and diplomatic missions.

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  44. This is remarkable that the top commander in Afghanistan has to implore US troops not to take revenge on Afghans for the killing of two US troops. Does not that in itself tell you the mission is over?


    KABUL, Afghanistan — The top U.S. commander in Afghanistan called on his troops to resist any urge to avenge the death of two American soldiers killed in riots over the burning of Qurans at a U.S. base, even as renewed protests Friday claimed at least seven lives.

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  45. Better start returning to defensible bases and fast.

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  46. All the Taliban has to do now is fire up a few crowds on some isolated bases and goad NTO troops to attack the crowds. What a mess.

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  47. Dougman, I don't think that baking soda did much for my aches and pains. I gave it a good try.

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  48. Yeah, my wife gave up on that too.

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  49. Iran is a threat to the USA

    Ignore it at your own peril

    Trust me when I tell you there are PLENTY of US Military advisors that agree with me.

    Listening to CNN and the nightly news for real POV's about the situation?

    Mental MASTURBATION.

    ReplyDelete
  50. .

    Richard Dawkins Allows "I Can't Be Certain God Does Not Exist"


    heh



    I know little of Richard Dawkins other than that on this subject he sounds quite rational.

    Atheism is merely a religion (theology, philosophy, belief system) like all the rest. It, like most of the religions of the world, share the conceit and arrogance to believe it alone owns the ‘truth’ and all countervailing beliefs are in error. And this about an issue it will never be able to prove one way or another in this life. The other religions, blind in their arrogance, follow suit.

    I made the point before that when confronted with this question that has no answer, faith is preferable to outright denial. It can offer comfort and solace when confronting an unknowable future. That said, you still have to recognize the difference between faith and logic.

    Though some here have ridiculed agnosticism, in a universe thought to be filled with dark matter and dark energy, and particles at the blurry flux level of quantum physics can exist at an infinite number of places at one time, where photons exhibit the characteristics of both waves and particles randomly, who can honestly (and logically) say they know what happened at the precise moment it all came into being? I contend no one unless their belief is ultimately based on faith.

    Some here like to quote philosophers as if that appeal to authority offers some validity to their arguments. Pure bullshit most of it. Farts in the winds. Most, the product of the philosopher’s circumstances and times, a mere reflection of an ever changing environment, with some of the more notable theories concocted by people who eventually went insane.

    In my opinion, the only philosopher worth his salt was Socrates, a humble man who would not accept the pompous musings these poseurs threw around, a man who sought first principles, and a man who demanded that you define your terms. He was an agnostic and proud of the fact. “Only one thing I know and that is that I know nothing.” He did not claim to have wisdom but merely to seek it. True philosophy is based in doubt. It’s only when we question our own beliefs that we can find some semblance of truth.

    In that context, Dawkins sounds like a reasonable guy to me.

    .

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  51. What I know of Dawkins is he always seemed so cock sure in the past. Isn't he the guy that calls all the atheists the brights and all the rest of us suckers the dims.

    I have read all you said Quirk, and ah have considered it well, and all ah'd add is, I think there are a class of experiences that are determinative to those who have them, and, to them, all this faith talk is merely silly, for schoolboys.

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  52. ....but when I breathe with the birds
    The burning lake becomes a forest pool
    The spirit of wrath
    Becomes the spirit of blessing
    And the dead begin from their dark to
    sing in my sleep
    What's dark to us is light to them

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  53. .

    What I know of Dawkins is he always seemed so cock sure in the past.


    In youth, we think we are immortal.

    With age comes wisdom? Or is it faith? Or just a hedging of our bets as we view the fast approaching transcendence?

    .

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  54. With age comes the enthusiasm of a second childhood?

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  55. .

    I think there are a class of experiences that are determinative to those who have them, and, to them, all this faith talk is merely silly, for schoolboys.




    As Socrates would say, define your terms. What are these experiances? How are they determinative to you? What insights have they provided? More importantly, what proofs?

    In what sense is the faith talk merely silly? Be specific.

    Inquiring minds want to know.

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  56. Black Elk used to get on the floor, and play with the kids, saying, "They have just come from the mystery that I am soon to go to. I can learn from them."

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  57. .

    Black Elk used to get on the floor, and play with the kids, saying, "They have just come from the mystery that I am soon to go to. I can learn from them."



    More diversion. More obfuscation. As Socrates would be too polite to say, more bullshit.

    Just answer the questions you raised in your previous post.

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  58. In that play of whatsitsname by the poet whatshisname Socrates was depicted as a clown.

    We don't even know what the old boy was like, really

    I imagine him as something like Quirk, humorous, a little given to concupiscence, and drink, and a big fan of ice hockey and horoscopes.

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  59. .

    In that play of whatsitsname by the poet whatshisname Socrates was depicted as a clown.

    We don't even know what the old boy was like, really

    I imagine him as something like Quirk, humorous, a little given to concupiscence, and drink, and a big fan of ice hockey and horoscopes.



    That's it? Nothing on those determinative experiances? Nothing on the insights they have provided you? Nothing on why the talk of faith is for silly schoolboys?

    You should be a little more circumspect in speaking of clowns my friend. You prove yourself to be one every time you start out with this puffery and then when questioned show there is no substance to back it up, merely the idle musings of a pompous jester. Yor missed your calling. Your forte is the stage. Most of your musings are like those of an actor of which one of your favorites might have said were by one "that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, And then is heard no more. It is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing." Our Bob.

    As far as Aristophenes was concerned, his satire was good natured enough. He spent a lot of time with Socrates; and Socrates didn't seem to mind the joking at his expense. He recommended The Clouds to Dionysius.

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  61. WiO: Iran is a threat to the USA

    It's just not working out for you here in the Home of the Brave, pal. A rat is a threat to an eagle too, might steal one of her eggs. But an eagle can bring down fearsome retribution from the skies, which is why it's the rat, not the eagle, has to keep looking up.

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  62. There you have it from wasp.

    Iran is not a threat - comparable to a scurrying rat. Can't even project force outside her borders.
    Such is the level of expertise at the bar.

    Next.

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  63. Why are there even sanctions on Iran?
    Can't project force outside its borders.
    Read it here.

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  64. Deuce - where'd you get that missile expertise you possess? U one one of those rocket scientists at Redstone?

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  65. That's it? Nothing on those determinative experiances? Nothing on the insights they have provided you? Nothing on why the talk of faith is for silly schoolboys?


    Go read William James.

    I don't claim experiences, I just read about them

    Don't forget your T. Aguinas.

    Aristophanes, that was the dude.

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  66. You in a bad mood, or something, today, Quirk?

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  67. That should cheer you up. Take the edge off that irritability.

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  68. Here Quirk, Ineffability and Noetic Quality

    XVI & XVII

    Varieties of Religious Experience

    William James

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  69. Wasp said...
    WiO: Iran is a threat to the USA

    It's just not working out for you here in the Home of the Brave, pal. A rat is a threat to an eagle too, might steal one of her eggs. But an eagle can bring down fearsome retribution from the skies, which is why it's the rat, not the eagle, has to keep looking up.



    Now that's just a load of shit...

    Iran could strike the USA with 3 emp's knocking us on our asses like no one's business.

    Who told me that?

    Newt Gingrich and Robert James Woolsey

    They told ME this 3 years ago.

    Last I checked they as sources beat the shit out of anyone you folks ever talk to that could even have a clue.

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  70. Who told me that?

    Newt Gingrich and Robert James Woolsey


    Did Newt tell you that when he was sitting on a couch with Nazi Pelosi telling us we needed cap and trade?


    “I think if you have mandatory carbon caps combined with a trading system, much like we did with sulfur, and if you have a tax-incentive program for investing in the solutions, that there’s a package there that’s very, very good. And frankly, it’s something I would strongly support.”

    Newt was for the Libya no fly zone before he was against it, and the only intervening factor was that Obama did what he was calling for and stood to reap the political benefit.

    Newt called for Barney Frank to be jailed for taking money from Freddy Mac.

    Newt: "If you want to put people in jail, I want to second what Michele said, you ought to start with Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. And let's look at the politicians who created the environment, the politicians who profited from the environment and the politicians who put this country in trouble."

    Charlie Rose, moderator: "Clearly, you're not saying they should go to jail?"

    Gingrich: "Well, in Chris Dodd's case, go back to look at the Countryside deals. In Barney Frank's case, go back and look at the lobbyist who was close to Freddie Mac."


    If this is who told you Iran can EMP the US, you're more gullible than I thought.

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  71. For the record, Iran can put a coffee can with some Radio Shack parts in orbit. Not a nuke. They don't have the throw weight.

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  72. Wasp said...

    nonsense, nonsense, nonsense...

    yada, yada, yada,

    and ends with..

    "If this is who told you Iran can EMP the US, you're more gullible than I thought."


    Interesting response.

    Ignores the issue.

    Ignores James Woosley

    Ignores Iranian abilities.

    Ignores the idea that Iran doesnt NEED an ICBM to do an emp

    Ignores everything to try to sound smart.

    Except that you aint. You are a low grade governmental employee with no actual military analysis ability.

    I have heard from MANY uniformed specialists and NSA people that think differently than you, a nobody with no curriculum vitae of any value.

    I have been lobbying Congress for 14 years about Iran. You have been creating lesbian love affairs of your mind...

    You and your opinions are meaningless.

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  73. .

    You in a bad mood, or something, today, Quirk?


    Actually, I am in a very good mood. I have decided to enter the NaNoWriMo writing challenge in November (a 50,000 word novel completed in 30 days). Sounds like a challenge. I have a couple of ideas and am currently trying to run up outlines to see where they take me.

    No, if I appear irritable, it's because I'm tired of you, and others here, who object to some point made (not necessarily by me),then offer up some flowery words, and when questioned show that there is nothing really there.

    You can't just throw words out there and expect that no one will question you on them.

    I don't claim experiences, I just read about them

    But surely you get something from this, otherwise, why comment at all? I asked you what were these determinative experiances? What insights did you gain from them (or from reading about them if you would)? What about them prompted you to question what I wrote?

    I ask not as a challenge or as some kind of a contest but merely as the basis for a discussion. Without it your words and your post are meaningless.

    And if you do decide to answer, I only ask that you keep to the subject at hand.

    The subject at hand was Dawkins avowed agnosticism, its validity, and its worth relative to other believe systems centered in either faith or atheism, or if you want to expand it it exponentially to 'ultimate truth' if you feel qualified to prove the concept through logic or objective science as opposed to one of the other belief systems already mentioned.

    Hint: Poetic feelings will not progress this conversation very far.


    .

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  74. Wasp said...
    For the record, Iran can put a coffee can with some Radio Shack parts in orbit. Not a nuke. They don't have the throw weight.



    In February 2009, Iran elevated itself to an exclusive group of nations by launching its first satellite, the Omid, into low earth orbit. It did so by means of its own liquid-fuel, two-stage space rocket. U.S. officials admitted "grave concern" over the achievement and cautioned that the capabilities necessary for the space launch could be applied toward developing long-range ballistic missiles. Just ten months later, Iran again demonstrated how rapidly its rocketry had progressed by test-firing an advanced version of the Sejil-2, Iran’s mobile two-stage, solid-fuel, surface-to-surface ballistic missile. The missile’s range (2,000-2,500 km) brings within reach Israel and other countries in the Middle East, southern Russia, and southern Europe.

    The space launch and missile test showed that Iranian engineers have now mastered staging -- a challenging technology necessary for developing longer-range missiles. The Sejil-2's use of solid fuel also demonstrates an advance that contributes to greater mobility and shorter launch times.

    once again wasp? you are full of shit.

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  75. .

    Watch The Jazz Fest Here Through The Weekend

    I do like jazz.


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  76. 4. Passivity. -- Although the oncoming of mystical states may be facilitated by preliminary voluntary operations, as by fixing the attention, or going through certain bodily performances, or in other ways which manuals of mysticism prescribe; yet when the characteristic sort of consciousness once has set in, the mystic feels as if his own will were in abeyance, and indeed sometimes as if he were grasped and held by a superior power.

    This is why in myth the coming of spirit is regarded as male, the receiving human vessel as female. Awake, Briar Rose, says the Prince. And you can find this in Roethke, and Whitman, two noted American examples.

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  77. OK, Quirk, good fortune with your novel. Could I be your agent west of the Rockies?

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  78. Don't forget the love interest, you have no chance for a ribbon without that. Put in some lively descriptions of that barbershop where the conversation turns to the mob, put in some middle eastern intrigue, some wood chippers, and a little fly fishing, and a saving heroic act right at the end.

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  79. Or just take one day of Drudge headlines and weave it into a saga.

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  80. Put in a culture bringing figure to make sense of the headlines, and set society on the good red road!

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  81. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  82. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  83. In February 2009, Iran elevated itself to an exclusive group of nations by launching its first satellite, the Omid, into low earth orbit.

    Dimensions: 40 cm * 40 cm * 40 cm Weight: 27 kg

    Translated into Amurrican, that's a cube 16 inches on a side, weighing a mere sixty pounds.

    Iran hasn't even tested their first Little Boy, let alone contemplated miniturizing it to fit in their little 60 lb cube.

    Little Boy was 10,000 pounds, ten feet long and two feet wide.

    That's why I mean when I say Iran doesn't have the throw weight. In fine, I'm going to sleep well tonight.

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  84. Wasp said...
    For the record, Iran can put a coffee can with some Radio Shack parts in orbit. Not a nuke. They don't have the throw weight.

    you do this all the time...

    focus on ONE possibility and exclude all others.

    you talk about ww2 American technology...

    you cant wrap that twisted brain around the idea that Iran can use a mobil platform on a ship in the Gulf of Mexico?

    Payloads for those rockets are far larger than 60 pounds.

    but you cannot think outside of the box you design to prove me wrong.

    this is why you are a low grade government employee. you have no ability to think.

    iran is a threat, you are an ass.

    both are true.

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  85. Shahab 6
    Country: Iran
    Associated Country: North Korea
    Class: ICBM or SLV
    Payload: Single warhead
    Warhead: Nuclear
    Propulsion: Multi-stage liquid/solid
    Range: 6000+ km
    Status: Development
    Details
    Assuming that the project exists, the Shahab 6 is the longer range of the new class of Iranian missiles being developed in conjunction with North Korea. Similar to the Shahab 5, the Shahab 6 is based on technology from the North Korean Taep'o dong 2, which in turn is based on Chinese technology. Some reports indicate that this missile designation has been in the planning and development stage since 1997, though the lack of testing and forthcoming information in recent years suggest that Iran is still in the early planning/testing stages.1


    The Shahab 6 is a two or three-stage liquid/solid fuel rocket. The missile uses most of the same systems as the Shahab 5, but economies in weight and payload are expected to increase the range. The missile is intended to carry one single warhead with a substantial yield, most likely in the area of 500-1,000 kg. As a result of its inaccuracy (see Shahab 5 entry), the missile's utility it probably restricted to attacking population centers and spreading radiation rather than hitting military targets. Thus, the Shahab 6 is more likely a blackmail/terrorist weapon than a military asset. Significant reports indicate that the Shahab 5 and Shahab 6 have the possibility of being developed into satellite launch vehicles (SLV). Little is known about the Shahab 5 project and even less is known about Shahab 6. Sources indicate that the project has been classified as Kosar.2

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  86. Assuming that the project exists, the Shahab 6 is the longer range of the new class of Iranian missiles

    Assuming the project exists, the Ali Baba IV is the Iranian device which permits assassins of the Revolutionary Guard to instantly teleport to any point in the United States or Israel through solid steel or rock.

    Boo.

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  87. Boo!

    According to Santorum when we heard him here, there is an odd type of 'Mexican' that speaks Spanish with an Iranian accent that's showed up occasionally along the border but maybe he was just pulling our leg or maybe they've alibababoogiedback to Iran already.

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  88. Mighta been Mossad agents playing at being Iranian Mexicans to stir us up, too, you never know, right kiddo?

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  89. Wasp said...
    Assuming that the project exists, the Shahab 6 is the longer range of the new class of Iranian missiles

    Assuming the project exists, the Ali Baba IV is the Iranian device which permits assassins of the Revolutionary Guard to instantly teleport to any point in the United States or Israel through solid steel or rock.

    Boo.



    this is why you are a governmental lacky

    no brains nor can you see anything that is not right in front of your eyes.

    you are way over paid by us....

    not to worry, you can create your next persona/lie tomorrow...

    boo right back at you worthless

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  90. You are assuming something there, WiO. You are assuming she actually does work for the government.

    I think she is a cowgirl out of Winnemucca, Nevada.

    She's said she works on torpedoes....and airplanes.

    How can you do both?

    I think she is a farrier....and barn hand.

    Good work, if you can get it.

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  91. The latest report by United Nations experts disclosed a 42 per cent rise in the number of operational centrifuges enriching uranium inside the Natanz facility in the last four months.

    Work inside a second, previously secret enrichment plant has also been stepped up, with 698 centrifuges operating inside the Fordow installation near Qom, a 69 per cent increase on the number recorded during the last inspection in October.


    The Iranians Are Busy, Busy, Busy

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