In Afghan War, Officer Becomes a Whistle-Blower
By SCOTT SHANE
Published: February 5,
WASHINGTON — On his second yearlong deployment to Afghanistan, Lt. Col. Daniel L. Davis traveled 9,000 miles, patrolled with American troops in eight provinces and returned in October of last year with a fervent conviction that the war was going disastrously and that senior military leaders had not leveled with the American public.
Since enlisting in the Army in 1985, he said, he had repeatedly seen top commanders falsely dress up a dismal situation. But this time, he would not let it rest. So he consulted with his pastor at McLean Bible Church in Virginia, where he sings in the choir. He watched his favorite movie, “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington,” one more time, drawing inspiration from Jimmy Stewart’s role as the extraordinary ordinary man who takes on a corrupt establishment.And then, late last month, Colonel Davis, 48, began an unusual one-man campaign of military truth-telling. He wrote two reports, one unclassified and the other classified, summarizing his observations on the candor gap with respect to Afghanistan. He briefed four members of Congress and a dozen staff members, spoke with a reporter for The New York Times, sent his reports to the Defense Department’s inspector general — and only then informed his chain of command that he had done so.“How many more men must die in support of a mission that is not succeeding?“ Colonel Davis asks in an article summarizing his views titled “Truth, Lies and Afghanistan: How Military Leaders Have Let Us Down.” It was published online Sunday in The Armed Forces Journal, the nation’s oldest independent periodical on military affairs. “No one expects our leaders to always have a successful plan,” he says in the article. “But we do expect — and the men who do the living, fighting and dying deserve — to have our leaders tell us the truth about what’s going on.”Colonel Davis says his experience has caused him to doubt reports of progress in the war from numerous military leaders, including David H. Petraeus, who commanded the troops in Afghanistan before becoming the director of the Central Intelligence Agency in June.Last March, for example, Mr. Petraeus, then an Army general, testified before the Senate that the Taliban’s momentum had been “arrested in much of the country” and that progress was “significant,” though fragile, and “on the right azimuth” to allow Afghan forces to take the lead in combat by the end of 2014.Colonel Davis fiercely disputes such assertions and says few of the troops believe them. At the same time, he is acutely aware of the chasm in stature that separates him from those he is criticizing, and he has no illusions about the impact his public stance may have on his career.“I’m going to get nuked,” he said in an interview last month.But his bosses’ initial response has been restrained. They told him that while they disagreed with him, he would not face “adverse action,” he said.Col. James E. Hutton, chief of media relations for the Army, declined to comment specifically about Colonel Davis, but he rejected the idea that military leaders had been anything but truthful about Afghanistan.“We are a values-based organization, and the integrity of what we publish and what we say is something we take very seriously,” he said.A spokeswoman for Mr. Petraeus, Jennifer Youngblood of the C.I.A., said he “has demonstrated that he speaks truth to power in each of his leadership positions over the past several years. His record should stand on its own, as should LTC Davis’ analysis.”If the official reaction to Colonel Davis’s campaign has been subdued, it may be partly because he has recruited a few supporters among the war skeptics on Capitol Hill.“For Colonel Davis to go out on a limb and help us to understand what’s happening on the ground, I have the greatest admiration for him,” said Representative Walter B. Jones, Republican of North Carolina, who has met with Colonel Davis twice and read his reports.Senator Jeff Merkley, Democrat of Oregon, one of four senators who met with Colonel Davis despite what he called “a lot of resistance from the Pentagon,” said the colonel was a valuable witness because his extensive travels and midlevel rank gave him access to a wide range of soldiers.Moreover, Colonel Davis’s doubts about reports of progress in the war are widely shared, if not usually voiced in public by officers on duty. Just last week, Senator Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California and chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said at a hearing that she was “concerned by what appears to be a disparity” between public testimony about progress in Afghanistan and “the bleaker description” in a classified National Intelligence Estimate produced in December, which was described in news reports as “sobering” and “dire.”Those words would also describe Colonel Davis’s account of what he saw in Afghanistan, the latest assignment in a military career that has included clashes with some commanders, but glowing evaluations from others. (“His maturity, tenacity and judgment can be counted on in even the hardest of situations, and his devotion to mission accomplishment is unmatched by his peers,” says an evaluation from May that concludes that he has “unlimited potential.”)
He served in Germany and fought in the first Iraq war before joining the Reserve and working civilian jobs, including a year as a member of the Senate staff.After the Sept. 11 attacks, he returned to active duty, serving a tour in Iraq as well as the two in Afghanistan and spending 15 months working on Future Combat Systems, an ambitious Army program to produce high-tech vehicles linked to drones and sensors. On that program, too, he said, commanders kept promising success despite ample evidence of trouble. The program was shut down in 2009 after an investment of billions of dollars.In his recent tour in Afghanistan, Colonel Davis represented the Army’s Rapid Equipping Force, created to bypass a cumbersome bureaucracy to make sure the troops quickly get the gear they need.He spoke with about 250 soldiers, from 19-year-old privates to division commanders, as well as Afghan security officials and civilians, he said. From the Americans, he heard contempt for the perceived cowardice and double-dealing of their Afghan counterparts. From Afghans, he learned of unofficial nonaggression pacts between Afghanistan’s security forces and Taliban fighters.When he was in rugged Kunar Province, an Afghan police officer visiting his parents was kidnapped by the Taliban and killed. “That was in visual range of an American base,” he said. “Their influence didn’t even reach as far as they could see.”Some of the soldiers he interviewed were later killed, a fact that shook him and that he mentions in videos he shot in Afghanistan and later posted on YouTube. At home, he pored over the statements of military leaders, including General Petraeus. He found them at odds with what he had seen, with classified intelligence reports and with casualty statistics.“You can spin all kinds of stuff,” Colonel Davis said. “But you can’t spin the fact that more men are getting blown up every year.”Colonel Davis can come across as strident, labeling as lies what others might call wishful thinking. Matthew M. Aid, a historian who examines Afghanistan in his new book “Intel Wars,” says that while there is a “yawning gap” between Pentagon statements and intelligence assessments, “it’s oversimplified to say the top brass are out-and-out lying. They are just too close to the subject.”But Martin L. Cook, who teaches military ethics at the Naval War College, says Colonel Davis has identified a hazard that is intrinsic to military culture, in which a can-do optimism can be at odds with the strictest candor when a mission is failing.“You’ve trained people to try to be successful even when half their buddies are dead and they’re almost out of ammo,” he said. “It’s very hard for them to say, ‘can’t do.’ ”Mr. Cook said it was rare for an officer of Colonel Davis’s modest rank to “decide that he knows better” and to go to Congress and the news media.“It may be an act of moral courage,” he said. “But he’s gone outside channels, and he’s taking his chances on what happens to him.”
He served in Germany and fought in the first Iraq war before joining the Reserve and working civilian jobs, including a year as a member of the Senate staff.
"Hearts and minds." I wonder who coined that one?
ReplyDeleteI know.
It is no coincidence that the light colonel served two years as a private. He was probably disgusted about what he would have to do and who he would have to be to become a full bird.
ReplyDeleteThey spun General P's failed policy in Iraq into a "success".
ReplyDeleteThe insurgency was never defeated, just co-opted. When the pay window closed, the root causes of the insurgents remained.
Averaging 11 deaths a day, now, after General P spoke "truth to power" and got promoted.
Then the Federals replicated the failed Iraqi policies, in Afpakistan. Where they are equally "successful".
The heroin flows towards Russia.
Which is the goal.
$1.5 billion USD in "trade" that destabilizes Mr Putin's regime.
"The present situation in Syria is extremely complicated. To naively back one side, while attacking the other side, might look like bringing about a favorable turn, but is actually just laying up trouble ahead," the ruling Communist Party's official newspaper People's Daily said in a signed editorial.
ReplyDeleteThe editor of another party newspaper, the outspoken Global Times, was even more pointed in his criticism of the West, suggesting the veto was at least partly inspired by a desire to snub Washington — despite the Foreign Ministry's denials.
"They have to be clearly aware of the fact that they are not the ruler of this planet. ... They can create another excuse to do their hegemony. China and Russia are not interested in standing on their side," Hu Xijin wrote on his microblog.
Conflicting assessments of how well or how bad things are going don't bother me in the least because Afghanistan doesn't matter. I have no problem whatsoever with leaving Afghanistan today. Come on, Obama, let's get the hell out of here.
ReplyDeleteBrought to you by the same insane assholes that gave us Vietnam.
ReplyDeleteA handful of troops in a goat farm roughly the size of Texas. Some of those people think they're still fighting the Russians.
ReplyDeleteFucking insanity.
It is insane, but not as it is absurd.
ReplyDeleteYou have helicopters bringing down hell onto dirt poor peasants in an area with no law.
Evidently, the US Army does not like the second amendment
They see something sinister in a pile of old weapons in the one place on earth where you really need personal armaments, the bigger caliber the better.
A bunch of guys that never got further than high school geography in the tenth grade are sitting down with the peasants as if they were in the UN. The are suppossed to convince the Afghans not to notice the choppers just wasted half a dozen of their kids.
The mud huts must have been ransacked by the troops to find the weapons. The Afghans are looking at the Americans thinking, “You ignorant assholes missed the best weapons, you won’t miss them as soon as you get out of here.”
The one universal law in every part of the world without law is blood revenge.
Those American troops got chopped up and killed because they were sent there by a bunch of ignorant assholes that slept through tenth grade geography class.
Why do we assume the assholes in high school who wore their letter sweaters can rule the world?
ReplyDeleteNo wonder that the troop’s candidate of choice is Ron Paul.
ReplyDeleteHe was probably disgusted about what he would have to do and who he would have to be to become a full bird.
ReplyDeleteCaptain Willard said in the Army you need wings to fly above the bullshit.
Deuce: Those American troops got chopped up and killed because they were sent there by a bunch of ignorant assholes that slept through tenth grade geography class.
ReplyDeleteIf McCain/Palin won, we'd be nation-building in there until the 22nd Century. I'm starting to think Obama isn't the total disaster we all thought he was.
Keep telling yourself that it's the government's fault.
ReplyDeleteI see it diffently.
The destruction of our country is happening within and has nothing to do with our government.
example 1
example 2
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ReplyDeleteAbbas to Lead as Fatah and Hamas Agree to Unity Deal
Netanyahu says the deal will crush any chance for a peace deal between Israel and the Palestineans. He says Abbas can have peace between them and Isreal or between them and Hamas but not both.
The deal between Fatah and Hamas can be problematic on a number of levels but to suggest it would affect peace between Israel and the Palestineans is laughable. There will be no peace between the two any time soon under any circumstance.
The "Peace Talks"? Pure propaganda, pure kabuki, pure trinkets for the natives. That Obama bought into it a year ago damaged him, his administration, and the world's view of America.
Once more Hillary looked inept and George Mitchell got fed up and quit.
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ReplyDeleteKeep telling yourself that it's the government's fault.
I see it diffently.
The destruction of our country is happening within and has nothing to do with our government.
Damn, and I thought it was 9/11 that got us into Afghanistan and nation building that kept us there.
Thanks for the insight anon.
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Quirk said...
ReplyDelete.
Abbas to Lead as Fatah and Hamas Agree to Unity Deal
Netanyahu says the deal will crush any chance for a peace deal between Israel and the Palestineans. He says Abbas can have peace between them and Isreal or between them and Hamas but not both.
The deal between Fatah and Hamas can be problematic on a number of levels but to suggest it would affect peace between Israel and the Palestineans is laughable. There will be no peace between the two any time soon under any circumstance.
once again the stupid weigh in....
Abbas could have had a state on 98% of all demanded lands, he could have had a land swap for the remaining 2%, he could have had 1/2 of jerusalem.
all was offered and turned down.
By JOINING hamas that demands a genocidal end to Israel it ensures no deal will be made.
But then again, abbas has not stood for an election in years he doesnt represent anyone.
No peace deal with an arab side that demands a palestinian state and a solution to refugees that demands that 7 million arabs flood israel.
Peace could be attained if the arabs sought a state to build on.
But peace will not come with the precondition that the jews slit their throats.
Again there is a circumstance that could lead to peace. The arab acceptance of the Jewish state of Israel for the Jews and the Arab state of Palestine for the arabs.
Good news...
ReplyDeleteIranian generals in damascus helping murder syrian civilians...
obama finally implements more sanctions against iran.
ReplyDeleteonly took 3 years!
great news...
ReplyDeleteegypt deaths after soccer game deaths continue
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ReplyDeleteAbbas could have had a state on 98% of all demanded lands, he could have had a land swap for the remaining 2%, he could have had 1/2 of jerusalem.
Pure bullshit.
It's been kabuki since day one.
All either side has ever done is talk. Offering land is one thing. Tying it to other terms that will not be accepted is another thing entirely. Merely buying time while settlements are built, walls are built, critical infrastructure is walled in.
And I am not laying all the blame on Israel. The PA has done the exact same thing in different ways.
Count on it there is unlikely to be a peace deal through agreement in our lifetime. The only way it will come about is if in some way it is forced.
As for stupid, go back and read some of the statements you have made over the last few days. I won't embarrass you by bringing them up.
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ah, Quirk, embarass him for it is entertaining to see him hoisted on his own petard.
ReplyDeleteHow many more men must die in support of a mission that is not succeeding?“ an Honest Lt. Colonel
ReplyDeletethat was and is the lesson that Obama sought from the increase in troops in afpak and the changes in the rules of engagement.
it's all been planned and many folks have swallowed his lesson hook line and sinker.
Quirk said...
ReplyDelete.
Abbas could have had a state on 98% of all demanded lands, he could have had a land swap for the remaining 2%, he could have had 1/2 of jerusalem.
Pure bullshit.
It's been kabuki since day one.
All either side has ever done is talk. Offering land is one thing. Tying it to other terms that will not be accepted is another thing entirely. Merely buying time while settlements are built, walls are built, critical infrastructure is walled in.
And I am not laying all the blame on Israel. The PA has done the exact same thing in different ways.
Count on it there is unlikely to be a peace deal through agreement in our lifetime. The only way it will come about is if in some way it is forced.
As for stupid, go back and read some of the statements you have made over the last few days. I won't embarrass you by bringing them up.
Your opinion of what i say that you consider stupid?
could not care less...
but you do not speak with any knowledge of this issue.
you are as you like to say, full of shit.
your ignorance is astounding.
but your knowledge aint the issue.
The arabs COULD have had a state 5 times. Starting in 1948...
Settlements aint the issue.
The arabs could have established a state in palestine ANY time from 1948 -1967 without one "settlement"
you ignore history...
you ignore camp david
you ignore facts.
There is no real issue of settlements.
The issue is simple, the arab refusal to accept a jewish state of Israel.
period.
simple.
Ash said...
ReplyDeleteah, Quirk, embarass him for it is entertaining to see him hoisted on his own petard.
go for it quirk, please include your retarded counter points that Vanna White could have spelled...
this is quick's response to my points...
ReplyDelete"nope"
"stupid"
"forget it"
"that's dumb"
"that's stupid"
"you're a moron"
no real depth, no insight, no commentary...
just ad hominem attacks.
so quirk, inquiring minds are waiting, take my points and actually think about them and write a real rebuttal without stooping to personal attacks.
ReplyDeletego fur it sparkie...
lordy, WiO requesting folk not stoop to ad hominem attacks, priceless.
ReplyDeleteWiO, how about that "Right of Return" you obliquely refer to - do you think it is a bad principle in international law or only bad when it negatively affects issues pertaining to Israel?
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ReplyDeleteThe issue is simple, the arab refusal to accept a jewish state of Israel.
You rant and rave of my lack of understanding yet you prove my point with your very words. A Jewish State of Israel, the Zionist dream. While the Arabs have said they will accept the state of Israel, they will not accept Zionism.
As I said, talk of peace is a dream under the current leadership of the PA and of Israel. This talk of "Peace Talks" pure Kabuki for the masses.
And since you brought up the subject of Zionism, let's discuss it.
The other day Ash brought up the subject and you avoided it as with so many other subjects you seem to find uncomfortable.
For his info, I posted an article by an ardent Zionist, Caroline Glick. You took exception to my interpretation of what she was saying in the article. So I asked you for some clarification on how you felt about the comments she was making about the obligations of Jewish Americans.
You declined to give me an answer of any sort.
You sit her all day long accusing people of lying but in addition to lies of commission there are also lies of omission.
I have pointed out you are an unapologetic apologist for Israel. People here on both sides of the arguments daily criticize what they object to with US policy. You are one of the biggest critic here. Yet when it comes to Israel, I have yet to see you offer one negative, not of the country, not of the policies, not of the current administration.
You rant when others point out that you appear to be an 'Israel Firster'. So I will allow you to clarify your position one again. In her article, Caroline Glick posited that at times Israeli national interests will vary or be at odds with those of the US. She further stated that Zionism demands that American Jews when a choice must be made have to come down on the side of Israel is they are true Zionists. She further states that being anti-Zionist is in reality being anti-Semitic.
Your words above point out the fact that you are a Zionist. Fine. No issue there. However, I once again ask do you agree with Glick's opinion on which country you must offer 'first allegiance' to when national interests collide?
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Ash said...
ReplyDeletelordy, WiO requesting folk not stoop to ad hominem attacks, priceless.
WiO, how about that "Right of Return" you obliquely refer to - do you think it is a bad principle in international law or only bad when it negatively affects issues pertaining to Israel?
Good question Ash.
The UN resolution spoke of "refugees"
IF you wish to use that question as a barometer let's us do do.
There were MORE Jewish refugees ethnically cleansed fro their historic homes in the islamic world than palestinians.
The value of their holdings was 8 fold the value that the palestinian arabs left in Israel. (not talking unused state lands)
If you wish to talk refugees, talk ALL refugees for a solution.
The interesting point?
Israel today has a vibrant population of 20% arab citizens, the arab world has 21 nations that are almost 100% judenfree.
The solution to the issue demands equality.
SInce it is not safe, nor would it ever be for the Jews to return to thier historic homes within the current occupied lands of the arab world, then the solution needs to be applied to the arab refugees.
The UN created the possibility of 2 states.
The jews accepted the idea the arabs rejected it 5 times.
So if you were to be FAIR about the issue and count Jewish refugees and their offspring as the same as palestinian refugees and their offspring go for it.
But if you only want to look to "arab" refugees as the issue then no I do not accept one standard for Israel and no standards for anyone else.
Quirk said...
ReplyDelete.
The issue is simple, the arab refusal to accept a jewish state of Israel.
You rant and rave of my lack of understanding yet you prove my point with your very words. A Jewish State of Israel, the Zionist dream. While the Arabs have said they will accept the state of Israel, they will not accept Zionism.
As I said, talk of peace is a dream under the current leadership of the PA and of Israel. This talk of "Peace Talks" pure Kabuki for the masses.
And since you brought up the subject of Zionism, let's discuss it.
The other day Ash brought up the subject and you avoided it as with so many other subjects you seem to find uncomfortable.
For his info, I posted an article by an ardent Zionist, Caroline Glick. You took exception to my interpretation of what she was saying in the article. So I asked you for some clarification on how you felt about the comments she was making about the obligations of Jewish Americans.
You declined to give me an answer of any sort.
You sit her all day long accusing people of lying but in addition to lies of commission there are also lies of omission.
I have pointed out you are an unapologetic apologist for Israel. People here on both sides of the arguments daily criticize what they object to with US policy. You are one of the biggest critic here. Yet when it comes to Israel, I have yet to see you offer one negative, not of the country, not of the policies, not of the current administration.
You rant when others point out that you appear to be an 'Israel Firster'. So I will allow you to clarify your position one again. In her article, Caroline Glick posited that at times Israeli national interests will vary or be at odds with those of the US. She further stated that Zionism demands that American Jews when a choice must be made have to come down on the side of Israel is they are true Zionists. She further states that being anti-Zionist is in reality being anti-Semitic.
Your words above point out the fact that you are a Zionist. Fine. No issue there. However, I once again ask do you agree with Glick's opinion on which country you must offer 'first allegiance' to when national interests collide?
I will not write a book.
ask a simple question, your question
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ReplyDeleteWho is your first allegiance to WiO, Israel or the Us?
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WiO wrote:
ReplyDelete"There were MORE Jewish refugees ethnically cleansed fro their historic homes in the islamic world than palestinians."
So, it is your position then that Israel should allow for the repatriation of the Palestinian refugees and their descendants as long as the Arabs do the same for Jewish refugees?
Interesting that you accept the "Right of Return" contrary to current Israeli policy.
In Nevada, Ron Paul won the area around Nellis Air Force Base.
ReplyDeleteQuirk said...
ReplyDelete.
Who is your first allegiance to WiO, Israel or the Us?
I am an American citizen. My allegiance is to my nation.
Your asking that question says a lot about your own pov.
I hope you will now ask that of all citizens of the USA no matter where they come from or the causes they support. Otherwise it is proof that you hold "jews" to a different standard.
ash: So, it is your position then that Israel should allow for the repatriation of the Palestinian refugees and their descendants as long as the Arabs do the same for Jewish refugees?
ReplyDeleteNo, my position is that SINCE the arab world has MADE IT IMPOSSIBLE for the fair resolution of the issue based on the UN own position that the flooding of Israel with arab refugees (and for the 1st time in history their offspring).
The arabs screwed the pooch.
In 1948 Israel broadcasted requests to the arab world to return.
In 1973 after the 1967 was the arab rejected the return of the west bank, gaza with the famous 3 no's
"adopting the dictum of no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel and no negotiations with Israel, the Arab states appeared to have slammed the door on any progress towards peace."
Thus the arab world must live with the results of it's actions.
You cannot go back in time.
Arab refugees that call themselves "palestinian" may settle in territory called palestine, and just as th Abbas has called for No JEW to live in any palestinian liberated land, no Jews shall be allowed to live in the new state of Palestine.
Jewish refugees go to Israel
Palestinian refugees go to Palestine.
Borders to be determined later.
My personal feelings?
Arab towns that border the palestinian/israeli border should be given to "palestine", population and infrstructure included. No need for Israel to force Israeli arabs to remain citizens of Israel. Nor is it right to drive them from their homes.
I advocate the moving of the borders to accommodate those major concentrations of arabs to have the very freedom of living in Palestine.
OT:
ReplyDeleteWI"O"
What does the Torah say about the Ten Lost Tribes?
They were captured by Syria, right?
Dougman said...
ReplyDeleteOT:
WI"O"
What does the Torah say about the Ten Lost Tribes?
They were captured by Syria, right?
no, they were dispersed as water poured into the sea...
they intermarried and gave up all identification with being jews.
thus poured into the sea.
never to be separate again.
Thank you
ReplyDeleteNice metaphor.
ReplyDeleteNice metaphor.
ReplyDeleteExcept that the Northern Tribes didn't give up being Jews. What an ignorant thing to say, particularly by one who claims to be a Jew. The Jews are what's left of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, the Kohanim (Cohens, sons of Aaron), and the Levites, from the Southern Kingdom.
In 720 Sargon II occupied all of Israel (Northern Kingdom) and deported the people to the east, where they soon lost their identity forever as separate tribes through intermarriage with the Medeans. This was a deliberate policy of the Assyrians.
Wasp said...
ReplyDeleteNice metaphor.
Except that the Northern Tribes didn't give up being Jews. What an ignorant thing to say, particularly by one who claims to be a Jew.
Go fuck yourself
ON A SLOW DAY MIGHT AS WELL THROW SOME DIRT ON RON PAUL
ReplyDeleteRevisionist history. To witness a Jew claiming that the Northern tribes lost their Jewishness by intermarriage is like listening to a Southern Baptist claim that the 1611 Authorized Version is the only true Bible because it's written in King James English just like Jesus talked.
ReplyDelete.
ReplyDeleteYour asking that question says a lot about your own pov.
I hope you will now ask that of all citizens of the USA no matter where they come from or the causes they support. Otherwise it is proof that you hold "jews" to a different standard.
More nonsense.
I did not ask the question in a vacuum. I have said you are an apologist for Israel. You have not denied it.
In the past you have accused me of not knowing history. I learned my history from youth through my twenties here and it was during a time when Rosa Parks didn't get more space in the books than George Washington. I lived through the Cuban missile crisis, Vietnam, the Cold War, and the Camp David Accords.
You may have a different view of events. I have seen some of the sources you have listed. Hell, half the Muslims in the world are radicalized by Saudi Arabia's rewrites of the Koran that they hand out free. But when you say the US has fucked over Israel for decades and ignore everytime it has supported her, when you say the US failed to come to Israel's aid in matters where it declared itself opposed to them and that Israel's actions were against the interests of the US, when you defend Israeli false flag operations that were clearly against US interest, and when you say that Israel was justified in bombing a ship of their US ally and then lying about it, yeh, I guess I feel justified in asking the question.
I have supported your stance that Israel is often singled out here while her enemies are not. But not this time.
This is not about Israel, it is about you.
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Whether one's religion/culture or one's nation should be the more primary concern in one's life has been answered differently by the thumpers and the wavers.
ReplyDeleteBut what to do when one's religion/culture or one's nation or both go really bad? There is always that third way - walk away from either or both, till they come to their senses again.
It is in this interim when the stream fishing is the best.
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ReplyDeleteIt is in this interim when the stream fishing is the best.
Probably good advise, Bob.
This is a blog. It allows one to vent, but nothing said here is going to change a damn thing (except maybe for some of the stuff Mel or Sam come up with).
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ReplyDeleteAfter some brief initial work, I kind of dropped the ball on my saga. I should get back to it.
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Just as the Jews of North America will soon be assimilated into the homogenous culture that prevails there.
ReplyDeleteRabbi Arian's Ruminations
"American Jews, too," he writes, "are products of their broader environment. Like their surrounding culture, they are radically individualistic, believing that the source of authentic identity, of religious authority and of life decisions, lies within the individual. Where Israelis are profoundly Eastern in the overarching structure of their Jewishness, Americans understand identity in radically individualistic and essentially American ways."
There is an old joke that says there are two types of people in the world; those who say there are two types of people in the world, and those who do not. But what Haviv is saying -- and I think he is right -- is that for Israelis as a rule there are indeed two types of people in the world; "us" and "them". They tend to see identity mostly as innate, given, fixed, and collective. This is because most Israelis have roots tracing back to Muslim, Orthodox Christian, or Catholic countries which see identity in this way. You are born into a tribe and you identify with that tribe. To do anything else is an act of betrayal.
The American Jewish view of identity is radically different. Frankly, it has more to do with the fact that we are Americans than that we are Jews.
In America, and in other countries shaped by the Protestant reformation, identity is not a given, it is chosen. According to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, just over 40 percent of Americans currently belong to a different religious group than the one in which they were raised.
jeez, I'd forgotten about that saga. Something about a big pow wow or something. Is there going to be any danger work involved, or just mental combat? Love interest?
ReplyDeleteLove interest?
Travel, sailing?
Love interest?
Hem ruined For Whom The Bell Tolls by sticking that nonsense about Maria in there, but it wouldn't make a good movie without it.
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ReplyDeleteI will try to keep your interests in mind; however, your thoughts on the Maria aspect seem a little uncertain.
Are you looking to turn this into a movie or not?
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Q. Why do Mormons believe Native Americans are a lost tribe of Jews?
ReplyDeleteA. Generations of Mormons grew up with the notion that American Indians are descended from a lost tribe from the House of Israel, offspring of a Book of Mormon figure named Lehi, who left Jerusalem and sailed to the Americas around 600 B.C.
For faithful members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Lehi's story is neither fable nor parable. It is truth. Historical fact. Every bit as real as the Pilgrims dropping anchor at Plymouth Rock in 1620.
...
As Mormon doctrine holds, Lehi's children split into two warring groups after arriving in the New World -- the kind-hearted, white-skinned Nephites and the marauding, brown-skinned Lamanites.
The Lamanites, Mormons believe, ultimately exterminated the Nephites in the 5th century A.D., and their offspring today are among the people the rest of the world commonly refers to as American Indians.
Because of that, Mormons believe American Indians have a special place in their church. It is a constant theme for their missionary efforts in South America and the Pacific Islands, and Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley even uses the story of Lehi to inspire converts at temple dedications abroad.
"It has been a very interesting thing to see the descendants of Father Lehi in the congregations that have gathered in the temple," Hinckley said at an August 1999 temple dedication in Ecuador. "So very many of these people have the blood of Lehi in their veins, and it is just an intriguing thing to see their tremendous response and their tremendous interest."
Mr Romney is a believer in the Mormon doctrines. Donating millions of dollars to their cause of proselytization around the globe.
If I'm involved, I want to suck all the cash out of it as possible. And soon, too, at my stage of life.
ReplyDeleteSomething like a world wide net movie, if there is such a thing, is what I would suggest.
ReplyDeleteI hold that Kennewick Man is Lehi.
ReplyDeleteAnd for his next amazing feat of mental prowess, the smartest Jew on the EB will tell us that South Carolina lost their Yankee-ness when they fired on Fort Sumter.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Brigham Young:
ReplyDelete"There is a curse on these aborigines of our country who roam the plains, and are so wild that you cannot tame them.
They are of the House of Israel; they once had the Gospel delivered to them, they had the oracles of truth; Jesus came and administered to them after his resurrection, and they received and delighted in the Gospel until the fourth generation when they turned away and became so wicked that God cursed them with this dark and benighted and loathsome condition."
[Quoted from Discourses of Brigham Young, compiled by John A. Widtsoe, pages 122, 123.]
Creative Destruction
ReplyDeleteIsrael and Iran on the eve of destruction in a new six day war.
The idea that the Jews were lost like drops of water in the sea is ludicrous. Beyond that it is a blasphemy of the highest order. Both the Tribe of Manasseh and the Tribe of Ephraim migrated from Jerusalem to America. Even as did part of the Tribe of Judah after the fall of Jerusalem in 600BCE.
ReplyDeleteSo it is written.
Brig Young and old old old man Romney come over together.
ReplyDeleteCan't argue with what is written.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThe idea that the Jews were lost like drops of water in the sea is ludicrous. Beyond that it is a blasphemy of the highest order. Both the Tribe of Manasseh and the Tribe of Ephraim migrated from Jerusalem to America. Even as did part of the Tribe of Judah after the fall of Jerusalem in 600BCE.
So it is written.
lol....
now that's funny...
Brig Young and old old old man Romney come over together. Met Lehi on the shore.....
ReplyDeleteLet the spiritually illiterate suppose what they may, it was the Jewish denial and rejection of the Holy One of Israel, whom their fathers worshiped in the beauty of holiness, that has made them a hiss and a byword in all nations and that has taken millions of their fair sons and daughters to untimely graves
ReplyDeleteBruce Redd McConkie member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.
quirk:
ReplyDeleteThis is not about Israel, it is about you.
then my answer to you?
Go fuck yourself...
from me to you, American to American...
Go fuck yourself...
You are one self obsessed nitwit.
If it's not about israel?
and it's your dislike of ME?
I can deal with that....
It's your right to dislike me...
enjoy but when you speak with hatred and bias against Israel?
it shows what a shit you are...
you are not a shit for disliking me...
you have every right to dislike me and I you.
vat udder nosense
ReplyDeleteBruce Redd McConkie member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.
ReplyDeletevat udder nosense
Bob better hope his old lady doesn't see what he's typing about the CoJCoLDS.
ReplyDeleteIsrael and Iran on the eve of destruction in a new six day war.
ReplyDeleteThe similarities are there. Israel struck out at Egypt's air force in a Pearl Harbor type operation for closing a Strait the Israelis hadn't used for the previous two years anyway.
Not nonsense it is the revealed word. Direct from God to the ear of his Apostle.
ReplyDeleteSo the Apostle wrote and so Mr Romney proselytized on his Mission to France.
"The recent surge in violence, including bombings in Damascus on Dec. 23 and Jan. 6, has raised serious concerns that our embassy is not sufficiently protected from armed attack," the State Department said in a statement Monday.
ReplyDelete...
The State Department said Ambassador Ford and all remaining American officials safely departed Syria over the weekend.
The career U.S. diplomat had been attacked on at least two occasions by Syrian mobs loyal to President Assad in recent months. The ambassador had also faced a number of death threats, U.S. officials said.
If Mr Obama's being in the congregation of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's Trinity Unity Church is a viable political issue. Then Mr Romney being a Bishop in the Latter Day Saints certainly is germane to the election campaign.
ReplyDeleteIf the sermons of Rev. Jeremiah Wright had an effect upon Barack Obama, the writings of the Apostles of the Saints certainly have had an effect on Mitt Romney.
Mr Obama never proselytized for Rev Wright. Mr Romney did both as a Missionary and then a Bishop in the Church of Latter Day Saints.
Mr Obama being a Christian on Sunday. Mr Romney living by the Promise of Moroni, every day of his life.
The Promise itself is an issue.
"And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost." [Moroni 10:4]
Q. Who is the Holy Ghost?
ReplyDeleteA. The Holy Ghost is a member of the Godhead, along with God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ.
The Holy Ghost is one in purpose with the Father and the Son, but is a separate being. Through Joseph Smith, the Lord revealed:
The Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us. [Doctrine and Covenants 130:22]
The special mission of the Holy Ghost is to testify of the Father and the Son, to reveal the truth, to comfort us, and to sanctify us. He is a divine guide and teacher.
A final point: vote. The Romney-Gingrich slugfest of negativity seems to have produced a low turnout in Florida and Nevada. But the choice before you remains no less important than it was before all the negative ads started airing.
ReplyDeleteIndeed, you who will vote tomorrow have a chance to get us beyond the unseemly spectacle of the last couple of weeks. You can put Romney on a likely path to the nomination.
Or you can create the possibility of a serious and constructive Romney vs. Santorum race.
Romney vs. Santorum?
China's vote, meanwhile, appeared to find supporters and detractors in roughly equal numbers on China's popular Twitter-like microblogging site Sina Weibo, where "Syria" was among the top 10 most-searched terms late Sunday night.
ReplyDeleteIn an unscientific user-generated poll that had attracted roughly 2,000 votes by Sunday night, 47% said they supported China and Russia vetoing the resolution while 44% said they opposed it. The rest where undecided.
Among those who supported the vote, many expressed satisfaction that China had decided to stand up to the rest of the Security Council rather than simply abstain from voting.
On this day in 2001, Israel elected Ariel Sharon as prime minister. He defeated Ehud Barak and served until 2006 as Israel's 11th prime minister.
ReplyDeleteAs Russia and the United States prepare for their respective presidential elections, tensions between the countries are growing. The central point of contention is U.S. ballistic missile defense (BMD) plans.
ReplyDelete...
Moscow and Washington have been in a standoff over myriad issues ever since Russia began to roll back Western influence in its periphery and assert its own power. Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, the United States got involved in the region intending to create a cordon around Russia to prevent it from ever becoming a global threat again.
...
Tensions between Moscow and Washington can be attributed to one primary issue: ballistic missile defense (BMD). The United States' BMD systems are scheduled to become operational in Romania in 2015 and in Poland in 2018.
Tensions To The Limit?
Manure Joke
ReplyDeleteWasp said...
ReplyDeleteIsrael and Iran on the eve of destruction in a new six day war.
The similarities are there. Israel struck out at Egypt's air force in a Pearl Harbor type operation for closing a Strait the Israelis hadn't used for the previous two years anyway.
Spoken like the revisionist you are....
GO and move to Gaza, they deserve people like you.
Riverside Store
ReplyDeleteLet Christian women now turn them to the letters of the Apostle --
ReplyDeleteand harken unto 1 Timothy 2: 8-15
8 I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing
9 I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,
10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
15 But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
shssss, quiet (if you subvert the subvert you are back to the status quo ante) ssshhss
subvert the subverter dammit
ReplyDeleteIndonesia intends to reshape its economy from one primarily based on low value-added sectors, such as raw material exports, to a more modern economy as a processor and refiner of its natural resources with higher domestic consumption not reliant on government subsidies. Attracting foreign direct investment (FDI) is one of the primary means for funding this transition.
ReplyDelete...
Indonesian Deputy Energy Minister Widjajono Partowidagdo said in an interview with Reuters on Jan. 31 that Jakarta was considering raising the price of subsidized fuel by as much as 44 percent in 2012. Partowidagdo added that the issue would be discussed by the parliament, which, along with the country's president, must approve any price change before it goes into effect.
...
Possessing energy reserves estimated at 4.2 billion barrels of oil and 3.1 trillion cubic meters of natural gas, Indonesia was a net energy exporter for much of the 20th century. But because of booming demand caused by the growth of a large middle class, Indonesia in 2004 became a net energy importer -- both for crude and refined oil products.
Subsidy Problem
Subvert the dominant paradigm!!!
ReplyDeleteOccupy everything!!
Women and children to the ramparts!!
Revolution, revolution, revolution!!
.
ReplyDeleteIt's your right to dislike me...
enjoy but when you speak with hatred and bias against Israel?
it shows what a shit you are...
Don't flatter yourself.
I don't dislike you. And I don't hate or even dislike Israel. I have defended it often here though you may have not noticed. More often than most. And I don't dislike Jews in general.
I don't look at Israeli Jews as Jews but as Israelis, that's all. As such, they have a right to determine what actions are in the best interest of their country. As long as those actions are not directly against America I figure it's up to them to do what they have to do and we will have to deal with any repercussion it may cause us. I've said that a number of times here.
I would expect most Americans would expect the same in return from Israel.
Likewise, I don't look as American Jews as Jews but as Americans not that I interface with many since I've retired.
My problem is not with you as a Jew or an American or as a man, it is with your views on the relationship between the US and Israel. Merely my opinion but I find them one-sided and unrealistic.
If I thought you were representative of Jews in the US I might be a little concerned. I don't. Perhaps you are right when you say I am naive.
Given some of the ideas that you have expressed here, I might be a little troubled by the fact that you are actively lobbying the US government and are on speaking terms with generals. But as you said, that is every American's right.
Now, if I were to hear some leaked rumor of the US developing a death ray to take out a rock, I would probably be scared shitless, but I don't see that happening.
No, I don't dislike you. I merely consider you an outlier, an anomoly.
I can even understand your anger and frustration if what you have told us about your experiances is true. However, when you continue to blame all the evils that have been visited on Israel over the last 60 years on the US, Obama, and most of the people at this bar, I'll probably call you on it.
As you said, you have every right to dislike me. I can live with that.
.
WASP to the back of the church!!
ReplyDeleteWASP remain silent!!
WASP obey, and give birth!!
CATHOLIC LEAGUE POISED TO GO TO WAR WITH OBAMA OVER MANDATORY BIRTH CONTROL PAYMENTS
ReplyDeleteWell, good! About time somebody took a stand.
Sam: The Romney-Gingrich slugfest of negativity seems to have produced a low turnout in Florida and Nevada.
ReplyDeleteIt's a circular firing squad. Rick Santorum has convinced me not to vote for Ron Paul. And Ron Paul has convinced me not to vote for Newt Gingrich. And Newt Gingrich has convinced me not to vote for Mitt Romney. And Mitt Romney has convinced me not to vote for Rick Santorum.
:) pretty good, Wasp.
ReplyDeleteThe following is an internal Stratfor document listing significant meetings and events planned for the next week. Stratfor analysts use this document to stay informed of the activities and travel of world leaders and to guide their areas of focus for the week.
ReplyDeleteEUROPE
Feb. 6: The Italian Parliament is expected to vote on a new round of fiscal measures.
Feb. 6: French airline workers are expected to begin a three-day strike.
Feb. 6: French President Nicolas Sarkozy and German Chancellor Angela Merkel are expected to hold a joint Cabinet session focusing on the eurozone crisis.
FORMER SOVIET UNION
Unspecified date: South Korean chief nuclear envoy Lim Sung Nam will visit Russia.
Feb. 7: The first round of negotiations on visa facilitation between Azerbaijan and the European Union is expected to occur.
Feb. 7-8: Turkish military chief Gen. Necdet Ozel will pay a two-day official visit to Azerbaijan to discuss the current state and prospects of bilateral military relations between the countries.
...
MIDDLE EAST/NORTH AFRICA
Unspecified date: South Korean President Lee Myung Bak will pay a weeklong visit to Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates.
Feb. 6: Pakistani Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani will visit Qatar. Gilani will sign two memorandums of understanding on national highway construction and hydropower generation projects.
Feb. 7: Run-off elections are scheduled for the Egyptian parliament's upper house.
Geopolitical Calendar
THE KILLING OF CHRISTIANS WORLDWIDE CONTINUES
ReplyDeleteOnly days after threatening to nationalize the country's banking industry, Caracas announced a new measure that will require private banks to purchase government bonds. With Venezuela's October presidential election on the horizon, Chavez aims to use this law and another recent requirement on consumer pricing -- combined with the threat of nationalization -- to force businesses to aid his populist initiatives.
ReplyDelete...
According to Chavez, the private banking sector holds deposits worth 200 billion bolivars (approximately $46.5 billion) that should instead be used to benefit the Venezuelan people. This confrontation followed a report issued by the Superintendency of Banks that private bankers have seen profits nearly doubled in 2011 from 2010 levels on currency trades and low interest rates to depositors.
...
For Chavez, the next nine months leading up to Venezuela's October presidential elections make up a critical window for demonstrating that his political and economic models are still benefiting the Venezuelan people, despite increasing concerns about ongoing economic instability. Caracas has already increased spending by 42 percent since January 2011, and high spending levels will likely continue as the government relies on populist initiatives to raise support for Chavez and his United Socialist Party of Venezuela.
Private Sector
At the Senior Citizens Centre they had a contest the other day. I
ReplyDeletelost by one point: The question was: Where do women mostly have
curly hair? Apparently the correct answer was Africa! Who knew?
God made pubic hairs curly so you wouldn't poke your eye out.
ReplyDeleteIn the past I’ve compiled a list of all the bishops speaking out on a particular controversial issue (for instance, over Notre Dame’s invitation to President Obama) — here are the bishops who have spoken out against the Obama/HHS mandate.
ReplyDeleteObama/HHS Mandate
Kucinich said these tax revenues would be used to fund alternative transportation programs when oil-and-gas prices spike.
ReplyDelete...
Specifically, he said the money would be used to fund a tax credit on the purchase of fuel-efficient cars and set up a grant program for mass transit programs when oil-and-gas prices are high.
The bill does not estimate the size of these grants or the amount of money that might be collected through the tax.
Company Profits
The latest in Italian cruise shoes.
ReplyDelete101 Today
ReplyDeleteBiden also visited the recurring Obama theme of fairness in his Florida address.
ReplyDelete...
“They look around and they think there’s a big chunk of society out there that isn’t in on the game.”
Biden vowed that this administration will “stay four more years and we are going to make a difference.”
GM Is Alive
THE CATHOLIC BISHOPS ARE ANGRY
ReplyDeleteMay they hammer Obama from now until November.
Sam, your Italian cruise shoes are a big hit amongst my contacts.
ReplyDeleteand Israel militarily cooperating. How historically beautiful. Someone in Hell has a bigger headache than usual
ReplyDeleteAnother German Nuke Capable Sub For Israel
#6
I believe I read somewhere that the Israelis earlier on didn't really want subs but a German chancellor basically forced the subs on them, like, big reduction in price.
One of the issues causing -- and prolonging -- Russia's current political instability is the complete breakdown of the Kremlin's power clans.
ReplyDelete...
Though there are countless small groups and loyalties among those in the Kremlin, Putin's system can be divided essentially into two clans -- the siloviki and the civiliki. Two very ambitious (and at times ruthless) men ran these clans: Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin, who ran the siloviki, and Vladislav Surkov, who ran the civiliki and was recently demoted from first deputy chief of staff. Each man controlled large portions of government bureaucracy, state companies and critical instruments of control throughout Russia.
...
The siloviki clan primarily consists of security hawks and former operatives with the KGB (now known as the Federal Security Service, or FSB) -- like Putin. The siloviki primarily fall under the control of Sechin, who played a major role in centralizing the Russian economy and ousting foreign influence over the past decade.
Kremlin Clans
I believe I read somewhere that the Israelis earlier on didn't really want subs but a German chancellor basically forced the subs on them, like, big reduction in price.
ReplyDeleteVe Germans haff our vays to force der Juden to buy our U-boats, you see. Ve know der Juden cannot resist a bargain.
The "Christians" that Bob complains are being massacred across the Middle East are standing by Assad. Any port in a storm I guess. Hope that works out for them.
ReplyDeleteAssad is a member of a Christian sect. Which is how Daniel Pipes describes the Alawi.
ReplyDeleteRead that right here at the Elephant Bar through a link.
http://www.danielpipes.org/191/the-alawi-capture-of-power-in-syria
Some 'Alawi doctrines appear to derive from Phoenician paganism, Mazdakism and Manicheanism. But by far the greatest affinity is with Christianity. 'Alawi religious ceremonies involve bread and wine; indeed, wine drinking has a sacred role in 'Alawism, for it represents God. The religion holds 'Ali, the fourth caliph, to be the (Jesus-like) incarnation of divinity. It has a holy trinity, consisting of Muhammad, 'Ali, and Salman al-Farisi, a freed slave of Muhammad's. 'Alawis celebrate many Christian festivals, including Christmas, New Year's, Epiphany, Easter, Pentecost, and Palm Sunday. They honor many Christian saints: St. Catherine, St. Barbara, St. George, St. John the Baptist, St. John Chrysostom, and St. Mary Magdalene. The Arabic equivalents of such Christian personal names as Gabriel, John, Matthew, Catherine, and Helen, are in common use. And 'Alawis tend to show more friendliness to Christians than to Muslims.
For these reasons, many observers - missionaries especially - have suspected the 'Alawis of a secret Christian proclivity.
Rice exporters said Iranian buyers had defaulted on payment for 200,000 tonnes of rice from their top supplier India...
ReplyDeleteHey, maybe the Iranian people can get their calories from enriched uranium. Let them eat yellowcake.
If the Mormons whose Godhead is an explicit rejection of monotheism are considered Christians then so too should be the Alawi.
ReplyDeleteNewt Gingrich makes the case that Mitt Romney has attacked Christianity.
ReplyDelete"The Obama administration has just launched an attack on Christianity ...
The Romneycare does the same thing. Romneycare has tax-paid abortions. Romneycare put Planned Parenthood, the largest abortion provider in America, in the bill. No right to life group's in the bill. Planned Parenthood is. Romney himself approved taking away a conscience clause from Catholic hospitals."
Massachusetts law mandated that the health care law cover abortion.
A law signed by Mr Romney.
.
ReplyDeleteIt's looney season.
Karl Rove and the GOP diss Clint Eastwood's It's Halftime in America; the Dems love it.
DOP Diss While Dems Delight
Jay Leno adds perspective, "Yeh, it's halftime in America; but the problem is China has the ball and we are 15 trillion points behind.
.
GM is partnered with the largest auto manufacturer in China. Making GM the largest auto manufacturer in the world.
ReplyDeleteChina may have the ball, but only because we sold it to them.
Was Khrushchev correct about Communism and Capitalism?
"We will hang you ... and you will sell us the rope."
US GDP - $14.58 Trillion US dollars at current prices - 2010
ReplyDeleteSource: World Bank,
China GDP - $5.88 Trillion US dollars at current prices - 2010
Source: World Bank
Looks like the US is ahead, by $9 Trillion Dollar.
Per capita GDP
US - $47,184 current US Dollars - 2010
Source: World Bank,
China - $4,393 current US dollars - 2010
Source: World Bank
Jay Leno is a foolish court jester.
Leno's talking about 15 trillion in debt, fool.
ReplyDeletePer capita the US is ahead by a factor of 10.
ReplyDeleteTake the court jester to heart.
Be afraid, be very afraid.
Print the script.
ReplyDeleteThe Chinese have lent the US 3 times their GDP. Taken worthless paper in exchange for real goods.
Who is the fool?
The US is the global master of currency manipulation.
ReplyDeleteBe afraid if you want to be.
Or listen to Deuce when he complains that savings have been decimated by the currency manipulation of the Federal Reserve. It has been done to the Chinese on a grand scale.
Hey, court jester, could you send me a pile of that worthless cash please?
ReplyDelete.
ReplyDeleteChina may have the ball, but only because we sold it to them.
I decry the effects of globalization as much as any. But I'm not sure what you do about. Likely, a change in US tax policy would help. Developing an industrial and trade policy like most of the countries in the world is a necessity. However, it wouldn't have helped with GM.
China feels it is in the cat bird's seat because of the size of its market and for the potential profit to be derived there. To play there you have to pay. Usually through technology transfer, establishing local content facilities, and ownership rules..
Extortion? Sure, but legal extortion. Many companies also face illegal extortion through piracy of intellectual property, companies carrying two sets of books, government intrusion, and bribes. Unfortunately, many businesses go along.
Maximizing short-term profits appears to be the reason d'etre of the multinationals today. People used to be the last thing that were cut. Today they are the first.
However, with GM China, it was a little different. When China decided to open up an assembly plant in Shanghai with foreign partners, every auto company in the world was trying to be the one picked. VW already dominated the Chinese market. All of the Japanese companies were vying for it. Ford was there and like all the others putting in JV's to meet local content requirements.
GM was awarded the business. If they hadn't been, there likely wouldn't be a GM today.
It's a shit world for many right now. But to consider an American multinational 'us' right now under current rules is somewhat simplistic. They operate by their own rules. When most of their profits come from foreign sources and there is no problem moving even more there, why should they show any loyalty to the U.S.?
.
The truth, not the foolish jester's number:
ReplyDeleteThe largest foreign holder of U.S. debt is China, which owns more about $1.2 trillion in bills, notes and bonds, according to the Treasury.
A far cry from 15 trillion
A pittance in the real world.
$4.6 trillion, is owned by the federal government in trust funds, for Social Security and other programs such as retirement accounts, according to the U.S. Department of Treasury.
Not a debt, at all. Just an accounting fraud perpetrated upon the ignorant taxpayers of the US.
Be afraid.
The truth, the Chinese have lent US 30% of their GDP.
ReplyDeleteWe owe them less than 9% of ours.
Who is the fool, to have bought that paper?
I agree with Rat. China has bigger fish to fry than trying to manipulate US Debt. The US has bigger fish to fry than worrying about it.
ReplyDeleteAnother political football.
You, ash, are not to big to fail so you get no access to the free money.
ReplyDeleteSorry.
Well I guess I'll just have to wait for it trickle down my way then...
ReplyDelete:(