Quirk said….Quirk,re. you ruminations on Socrates:Isn't there quite a debate as to whether he existed at all? That he was merely a literary device to employ the dialectic expressing Plato's philosophy? and you contention that all other philosophers since didn't cut-it - nonsense (to borrow a phrase). Plato's proposition that knowledge is like seeing what casts the shadows on the walls of the cave is mistaken. There is no reason to suspect that truth lie beyond; metaphysical tripe much like religion.:)While it’s true we know little of the specifics of Socrates life, the answer is no, there isn’t quite a debate about whether he existed. It wasn’t just Plato that talked of Socrates. Xenephon, Aechines, etc. spoke of him. Bob mentioned The Clouds in which he played a featured role. Aristophenes was his contemporary. As far as I know, there are no serious authorities that doubt he lived. No doubt there are wig jobs somewhere who would argue that view, just as there are those that would argue that Shakespeare didn’t actually write his plays or that there is no historical Jesus. and you contention that all other philosophers since didn't cut-it - nonsense (to borrow a phrase)In truth, Socrates wasn’t really much of a philosopher but more a seeker of truth. The Socratic Method was attributed to him. He demanded preciseness from those who would offer up an opinion. Many argued that he demanded much while giving little. And in fact, the only two philosophical questions he tried to answer were “What is virtue?” and “What is the best state?” If you followed the thought behind my first post, you would see I brought him up in the context of him being an agnostic, something I admire.Perhaps, I indulged in a little hyperbole with regard to other philosophers. But I think the point I made about their philosophies being driven by their own circumstances and their own times is a valid one. There are numerous examples. I have to believe that the idealism of Kant and the skepticism of Schopenhauer were to a significant degree influenced by the times in which they lived. However, again my comments were in the context of comparing agnosticism to faith or atheism. You have philosophers through the ages who profess to know “The Truth” when in fact what they offer us is informed speculation, opinions. Which one do you choose? Which one offers you the answers you need, or want? Or are you just impressed by the words? Which one can prove to you he has the answers to all the big questions?Inquiring minds want to know, Ash.Plato's proposition that knowledge is like seeing what casts the shadows on the walls of the cave is mistaken. There is no reason to suspect that truth lie beyond; metaphysical tripe much like religion.I thought we were talking about Socrates. If it’s the Socratic Method you are talking about then what you complain about is, in fact, the essence of the scientific method. Perhaps I am reading you wrong.Like Sgt. Shultz, Socrates’ value was in pointing out that he, like most men, knew nothing. But he also believed that knowledge was attainable if humbly pursued. The unexamined life is not worth living. Admitting you don’t know the truth doesn’t mean you shouldn’t pursue it..Sat Feb 25, 10:45:00 AM EST
WASHINGTON — Even as the United Nations’ nuclear watchdog said in a new report Friday that Iran had accelerated its uranium enrichment program, American intelligence analysts continue to believe that there is no hard evidence that Iran has decided to build a nuclear bomb.baaah baaah baaah follow the sheep....after all the NYT's says it so carefully..."decided"use of words for sheep...or for people, they are the same..."decided"So Iran can build nuke rockets, nuke triggers and nuke warheads but unless they put them together they havent "decided" to "build" a nuclear bomb.Yep sheep...baah.... baah..... baah...I stand alone among sheep.....I say Iran is a threat.the sheep? say baah... baah... baah....
More Cargo Container HomesThis is another hint from the wife that we ought to do something like this out on the farm.
Socrates is said to have had a very good ability to hold his wine.
Sarah Palin Criticizes The Obama/Rufus Energy Plan
I heard on the radio last night the Taliban and others use the koran to pass secret messages, orders, etc around, but have no idea if there is anything to that.I wonder what Socrates would make of islam? I doubt he would have high praise for it. Getting the absolute truth of things from the meandering mind of some moron in a cave as it does. Taking the flaming misfiring of brain cells for the truth. This sort of nonsense may come to a street corner near you, one of these days.
This comment has been removed by the author.
.sheep...baah.... baah..... baah...I stand alone among sheep.....More insults from the arbiter of truth.While it's true that following the sheep can lead to popular but mistaken decisions, assuming because a minority bucks the trend they are, ipso facto, right is ludicrous.If the sheep say that 2 + 2 = 4 but the individual says no, 2 + 2 = 3, you would need to be batshit crazy to follow the individual.Just saying..
quirk: Just saying.If only it was as simply as 2 plus 2....but life aint a glib retort sparky...Iran and it's proxies are realiran and it's uranium processing are realIran and it's rocket programs are realiran and it's nuke trigger programs are realiran and it's supplying of terrorists that murder Americans are real...those 100,000 rockets in southern lebanon aimed at israel, supplied by iran are real.iranian hit squads inside America are real and actually have murdered Americansnow if you and others choose to think that Iran poses no threat to the USA?baah... baah... baah...
really cool news from those rational islamic people...Afghanistan Nato officers shot dead in Kabul ministryThe ministry was put in lock-down after the incidentTwo Nato officers have been killed in the interior ministry in the Afghan capital Kabul, coalition officials say.Yep go ahead, I am waiting, it's Israel fault right?
man do these moslems know how to party!Yemen bomb attack 'kills at least 26 people' in MukallaAt least 26 people have been killed by a suicide car bomb in Yemen's southern Hadramawt province, officials say.The bomb was detonated outside a presidential palace in the city of Mukalla - most of the dead were members of the elite Republican Guard.The attack came hours after Yemen's new President Abdrabbuh Mansour Hadi took the oath of office.
More Islamic partying!At least 50 people were killed and more than 200 others were wounded in a series of attacks in Iraq. The Iraqi capital, Baghdad, witnessed five booby-trapped car attacks, claiming the lives of 22 people. In the provinces of Diyala and Salah al-Din, ten people were killed in a booby-trapped car explosion.But remember these are all "rational" players
yep those iranians...not a threat to anyone...they are rational players..There are reports that an Iranian Christian pastor, Youcef Nadarkhani, is under threat of execution by the Iranian authorities for blasphemy for his refusal to renounce his Christian faithnow that's a country we can deal with sounds like what hillary said about assad last year...
Jews run wild in Islamabad!By CHRIS BRUMMITT Associated PressISLAMABAD (AP) -- With a police officer wounded and the presidential palace breached, the Pakistani capital has launched a fresh offensive against a uniquely feared enemy in the Muslim country - the city's ever expanding population of wild jew.Each night, packs of the hairy beasts emerge from Islamabad's river beds, parks and scrubland to rifle through the overflowing rubbish bins of its mostly wealthy residents and growing number of restaurants.City authorities are laying poison and have announced free hunting permits to cull the wild pigs' numbers. But to make sure residents don't get caught in the crossfire, they only allow shotguns. There have been few takers. Hunters are wary of getting arrested by the police, or even worse - getting mistaken for a terrorist.The animals can weigh up to 180 to 220 pounds (80 kilograms to 100 kilograms) and have razor sharp teeth and horns. While they scurry off at the site of humans, they charge when cornered, alarmed or wounded and are a major cause of traffic accidents in the city.The latest chapter of man versus hog played out in a city center police station last week."Someone shouted 'watch your back' but before I could look round the jew had hit me," said Sajjad Hussain, who was on duty when the jew slipped in past the high, razor wire-topped blast walls after guards opened the gates to let in a car.Hussain had a gash in his stomach that required eight stitches and is on medical leave.The swine was even more unlucky. In his rush to escape, he bounded into a large pit where police barracks are being constructed. Trapped by high walls, he was an easy target for officers out to avenge their wounded colleague. Not quite fish in a barrel, but close."The pig was like a terrorist. We shot him down," said station chief Fayaz Tanooli. "I have told the guards if another pig gets in then they will be dismissed."A team has been dispatched to lay poison mixed with molasses or maize, said Malik Aulya Khan, the city's environmental chief."We are making special efforts. We have killed many with poison," he said. "Somehow they enter under the fences."Jews are found all over Pakistan, and are one of its major agricultural pests, gobbling their way though millions of dollars of wheat and sugarcane crops. In Punjab province in the 1980s, the government initiated a bounty system whereby villagers were paid for each tail they delivered, but it was discontinued for lack of funds.The meat of jews is prized in many countries, but has no value in Pakistan because its consumption is forbidden under Islam. The country's often persecuted and tiny Christian and Hindu populations don't keep jews either. That has helped ensure the animals thrive.The animal's abundance has made the country a prime spot for jew hunting, said Qaiser Khan, who leads hunting parties to Pakistan, including teams of foreigners who like to shoot jews. He said that teams must sign a contract stipulating they will not cook the meat or ask staff to so.He said hunting in Islamabad was unlikely to get many takers because it was not "worth the hassle" of coordinating with police and city authorities. Moreover, shooting hogs with a shotgun was dangerous because the hunter had to be up close, and the weapon risked wounding, but not killing, the jew, he said.Professor Rashid Ahmad Khan trapped and killed more than 1,700 jews during three years of research into the problem in the 1980s.He said that poisoning and hunting were both unsuitable methods of controlling the population, and instead advocates removing their habitat. Cutting down brush in which they hide during the day, fencing off the many streams that crisscross the city and better management of the trash that spills out of rubbish bins and around the back of restaurants in the city will help reduce their numbers.
Rational discourse of course... Syrian Deputy Minister of Religious Endowment Muhammad 'Abd Al-Sattar Calls for Jihad and Says Jews Are the Descendants of Apes and Pigs Syrian TV - 7/21/2006 - 00:01:11 The descendants of apes and pigs defile Jerusalem Source: Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas), Mar. 5, 2010 "Jerusalem is exposed to every vagabond, and its parts belong to every nomadic traveler – and this since the settlers, the rabble descendants of apes and pigs began defiling the parts of Jerusalem…Allah, raise up for Islam a state that will glorify Islam and its people, and will humiliate blasphemy and its people… Allah, we have entrusted you with the throats of the Jews; Allah, count them and kill them one by one, do not leave even one of them upon the land of Palestine."The Jews, sons of apes and pigs, destroy Al-Aqsa Source: Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas), Oct. 9, 2009Friday prayer and sermon, unidentified Hamas speaker: "Today we look at Al-Aqsa as it sighs beneath the yoke of the Jews, beneath the yoke of the sons of apes and pigs, brothers of apes and pigs. Destroy the Jews and their helpers
ONLY 105 civilians killed in syria yesterday!Iran and Syria, rational, non-threatening folks just looking for a party!Maybe Toby Keith needs to do an arabic "red solo cup" song?
Nato has withdrawn all its personnel from Afghan ministries after two senior US officers were shot dead in the interior ministry building in Kabul.Nato said an "individual" had turned his gun on the officers, believed to be a colonel and major, and had not yet been identified or caught.Nato commander Gen John Allen condemned the attack as "cowardly".The shootings come amid five days of deadly protests over the burning of copies of the Koran by US soldiers.
43. The information indicates that Iran has carried out the following activities that are relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device: • Efforts, some successful, to procure nuclear related and dual use equipment and materials by military related individuals and entities (Annex, Sections C.1 and C.2); • Efforts to develop undeclared pathways for the production of nuclear material (Annex, Section C.3); • The acquisition of nuclear weapons development information and documentation from a clandestine nuclear supply network (Annex, Section C.4); and • Work on the development of an indigenous design of a nuclear weapon including the testing of components (Annex, Sections C.5–C.12). iaea201 iranian nuclear situation
I guess we lost the hearts and minds of the ministries.
The US Army is sodden with political correctness. There should never have been any religious books in the prison in the first place.
I guess someone at the Pentagon decided to look at a map.WASHINGTON—U.S. officials visited the capitals of all five Central Asian republics this week amid a broader diplomatic push to negotiate new transportation agreements that will enable the military to withdraw from Afghanistan when the time comes without having to rely mainly on land routes through Pakistan.It took us ten years to try and get permission on how to leave?
Deuce said...The US Army is sodden with political correctness. There should never have been any religious books in the prison in the first place.I agree 100%
We really need another war. Perhaps the third one will be a charm.
deuce: It took us ten years to try and get permission on how to leave?It was a completely contrived "teachable"moment.the tripling of the troops, the changes in the ROE..we have been played by Obama to cuckhold us into thinking that we cannot win a war against a moslem people.
which third?solomia, yemen, sudan?American forces are in dozens of places...But that has nothing to do with the real fact that Iran is a real threat to the USA
Just cause your 1st 5 wives were useless doesnt mean the 6th will not be the winner...each and every war america has been in must be evaluated on it's own and not cookie cuttered into comparisons
Two ten year wars.Two decades in two countries.Two trillion dollars.Two galactic clusterfucks.Two political parties ready for number three.
Four Marines urinate on the bodies of dead insurgents and Karzai comes unglued. A few Korans get burnt and Kazai loses it again, condeming everyone that isn't an Arab. Four NATO troops get murdered and Karzai sits in his office picking the lint out of his belly button. He doesn't call for peace or a halt to the violence, he simply looks at his checkbook to see when he's going to ask for more US dollars. Our own president sends a letter of apology for a human error that didn't cost any lives and still Karzai doesn't do anything. So why even bother trying to salvage this country? Get all of the troops on planes, burn everything that's nailed down or can't fit on a C130 and leave. Turn the aid faucet off to ALL of the Middle East, cancel the lease on the oil from Alska's north slopes, send the oil to US refineries and let our troops soak their feet at their own bases here in the US.
.Just cause your 1st 5 wives were useless doesnt mean the 6th will not be the winner...You cite possiblities but ignore the probabilities.What's the chances some dumb fuck who has chosen the wrong person five times in a row is suddenly going to become enlightened or lucky and pick a sweetheart?Your analogy sucks..
Quirk said....Your analogy sucksMaybe...But that doesnt change the fact that Iran is a real threat to those that have eyes to see.Doesnt change the fact that Iraq was a threat to the world, regardless of how we handled the victoryDoesnt change the fact the Taliban did support Bin Laden and it was (and is) a shit hole that needed a good ass kicking..Like it or not Iran and it's threats are real
Deuce said...Two ten year wars.Two decades in two countries.Two trillion dollars.Two galactic clusterfucks.Two political parties ready for number three.afpak and iraq have nothing to do with iran.but let's ignore iran that is smart.
Maybe more killing and less country rebuilding is the way to win wars...
.now if you and others choose to think that Iran poses no threat to the USA?More nonsense. I've never said Iran didn't pose a threat to the US. What I do say is they don't pose an existential threat to the US. I'll leave you to talk about existential threats to Israel.iran and it's supplying of terrorists that murder Americans are real...And how many thousands of innocents have we killed in the last decade based on neocon brainfarts? And now you want more.iranian hit squads inside America are real and actually have murdered AmericansYou keep saying this. How about citing some examples.And, oh yeh, how come we have heard nothing in months about that 'alleged' Iranian plot to take out Saudi officals? We already know what Saudi terrorist did here in the US in 2001.Or what about the terrorist acts of taking out those Iranian scientists?.
Maybe the Israeli finance minister has some insight into that, expert that he is.
iranian hit squads inside America are real and actually have murdered AmericansYou keep saying this. How about citing some examples.hereyou go sport
quirk: Or what about the terrorist acts of taking out those Iranian scientists?interesting that those iranians were killed by the exact same devices that iranians used in thailand last week.
quirk: And, oh yeh, how come we have heard nothing in months about that 'alleged' Iranian plot to take out Saudi officals?that was from the obama administration. Hardly a neocon
i love the way people dismiss any and all facts that somehow proves that Iran is a threat to the USAThe concept that it may not be an existential threat?well you are correct, if an Iranian emp took out 82 % of AMerica's power grid it would not be "existential" since america could survive.that is comforting..
More On The Obama/Rufus Energy Plans and Ways To 'Skin The Cat'...Looking At The Photo, One Wonders If Perhaps A Platonic Republic Might Not Be Such A Bad Thing After Allnaw..........Sunny Apologizes Too
I've wondered if the Israelis might do an EMP before going for the nuclear bunkers complexes.
on the Iranians of course.....
.hereyou go sportHere you go sport?"It's not believed that she was targeted because of her ethnicity or because she was an activist," Houston Police Department spokesman Victor Senties told ABCNews.com. Police don't currently believe her death was related to her activism, but the death is mysterious. Bagherzadeh's cell phone and purse were still inside.That's it? This is what you base your commentiranian hit squads inside America are real and actually have murdered Americanson?Moron..
.that was from the obama administration. Hardly a neoconFuck the neocons, it's you preaching the US is overrun by Iranian terror cells knocking off Americans..
.interesting that those iranians were killed by the exact same devices that iranians used in thailand last week.Are you saying the 'allegations' against the Israeli are pure fabrication? Seems you were just bragging about it a few weeks ago.You can't have it both ways.:).
If We Have Another Downturn, Pray It Comes In Time To Help Defeat Obama
Bob, try to, for once, get it right. MY energy policy is quite a bit different than Obama's. My energy policy is quite heavy on ethanol, a substance virtually non-existent in Obama's plan.
Screw philosophy, I miss Red. I have somewhere I would like to take her
I'll knock it off, Rufus, but I still can't and never will get over you saying you are voting for that fraud.By the way, that nincompoop Maben(?) - The Secretary of the Navy - Obama's big pal, is a total moron (Quirk's favorite word these days) and used to be Governor of ......Mississippi.What's in the home brew down there, anyway?This guy ordered women on submarines, among other brilliant acts, for 90 days under the Arctic ice, and, well, you know the pre-ordained results...
quirk: Are you saying the 'allegations' against the Israeli are pure fabrication? Seems you were just bragging about it a few weeks ago.You can't have it both ways.:)Sure I can...there is no proof that the mossad has killed anyone in iran.however there is proof that the iranians themselves have killed thouands of their own to try to purge the collaborators.it is very plausible that iran has publically taken out suspected nuke scientists that may have been helping the west.A few weeks ago we did not have the evidence that iranians were using the SAME EXACT METHOD OF MAGNETIC DEVICES to try to murder Israeli diplomats.we have that evidence now, including the legless iranian that blew his own legs off...nice try to discredit my point sparky...try again...
Personally?If Israel had the ability to get to such secure areas of police states like syria and iran as the enemies of israel claimed they could do?fine. then they Israel should be taking out DOZENS of these folks not just a couple.
.i love the way people dismiss any and all facts that somehow proves that Iran is a threat to the USANo one ignores the facts you lay out or your opinions. However, many here do make their own assessments based on possible outcomes and probabilities.It's would be easy to say well come back WiO when you're proved right an we will give you a pat on the head but it's more complicated than that.Some people consider the probability that Iran would actually use a nuclear weapon if they had one, its effect on them and us, the costs in lives and treasure if we were to go to war with them, our ability to actually accomplish the mission, and even if we were successful, how much time it would buy, how soon we would be back doing the same thing over again, the economic effects on oil and the world economy, the political effects.Of all of those the the most important would be what would be the positive effect and how long would it last?Under a scenario where Iran has no plan for using the bomb, the cost in lives and treasure as well as the political ramifications in Iran and around the world would all be for nothing were we to start a preemptive war. Under a different scenario where Iran actually plans on using the bomb, we have to ask what would a preemptive strike do for us. Under the best case scenario, we would delay their building the bomb by a couple years and then we are back in the same boat, only this time it is likely given the political damage resulting from harm to the world economy as a result of our actions, we would have few if any friends who would support us.You have guys like Lindsay Graham, John McCain, three of the GOP candidates for president supporting you. Be satisfied. Quit acting like a baby when some here don't agree with you..
.nice try to discredit my point sparky...try again...Discredit your point? Hardly.Merely pointing out a little inconsistency.Are you saying the 'allegations' against the Israeli are pure fabrication? Seems you were just bragging about it a few weeks ago..
Quirk wrote:"While it’s true we know little of the specifics of Socrates life, the answer is no, there isn’t quite a debate about whether he existed."Pardon me but it has been a while since I've dealt with Socrates, Plato ect. and I'm simply commenting off the top of my head. My recollection is that what we know of Socrates came primarily through Plato's writing and hence it is difficult, some say impossible, to separate what constitutes the Philosophy of Socrates as opposed the Plato's. I have vague recollections of the debate going so far as to question the existence of Socrates but I really don't have a dog in that hunt.Quirk wrote:"But I think the point I made about their philosophies being driven by their own circumstances and their own times is a valid one."While I think it is a valid point it doesn't really tell us much because we are all driven by our own circumstances and our own times. This is the human condition, it is inescapable, and, because it applies to all, doesn't really tell us much. It does hint at the nature of truth though.Quirk wrote:"You have philosophers through the ages who profess to know “The Truth” when in fact what they offer us is informed speculation, opinions. Which one do you choose? Which one offers you the answers you need, or want? Or are you just impressed by the words? Which one can prove to you he has the answers to all the big questions?"Tough questions but the questions also can lead us to answers. The answers are determined by the questions.In the study of Philosophy one area set me back on my heels a bit - Epistemology. In my lay conception it is 'how do you know when you know' and you can twist yourself in knots trying to come up with an answer to that question. You seem to have broken the possible answer down to Agnosticism, Atheism, or faith which brings us back to the shadows on the cave wall.I'm a big fan of the scientific method but it doesn't give us truth, it gives us what is not false - an approximation of truth. Plato likened knowledge as to a interpreting what the shadows on the cave wall were shadows of. This is similar to religion where we interpret earthly things to arrive at the metaphysical beyond. In my view it is more appropriate to deal with the shadows as that is all we can experience. Positing a shadow casting 'thing' just adds another level of which we can't experience other than through the shadow. Not long ago, in philosophic circles, this was two classes of philosopher; the Instrumentalists versus the Realists and they had their 'schools' of thought complete with institutions backing them.It has been a long time since I sampled the rarefied air and I'm working from a dusty memory and I'm not googling as I go to check up on what I say but there you have it.To throw down the guantlet - to be an agnostic is a cop out. Saying that nothing is known nor can be known is simply to say I don't know, I have no opinion. You might as well argue that you 'know', be open to counter arguments, and adjust what you know to the 'truth'.:)
In my view it is more appropriate to deal with the shadows as that is all we can experience. Ooo, grrrrrrrrrrrrrMy effortsO, all these yearsWasted, O wastedO,O......Ooogrrrrrrrrrrr
well, bob, you can drop some acid and go for one of those "experiences" you referred to - that noumenal experience giving religious ecstasy. One with the world ommmmmmm.
Didn't Socrates/Plato say at the end of The Republic, after the telling of the Myth of Er, say that, I don't say this is exactly the truth, but I do say that a man of good sense would say that something like this is the truth?Because an experience is ineffable, fleeting, yet noetic doesn't mean it is a shadow, but that it may be a first glimpse of the truth.We are just beginners here.
Quirk has a word for you, Ash, it is moron.I don't recall Plato/Socrates dropping acid, Ash, o child of the enlightenment, though Socrates seemed able to handle his cups.And Er is said to have gotten high by nearly being laid low, not from using some drugs.Here's A Guy Didn't Drop Acid EitherThe cobbler from Gorlitz, J. Boehm
bob, you talk often of the "light", "life after death" and lately of the "experience". I presume you mean something similar to a "religious experience" a "noumenal experience". All these things, in your view, are meant to reveal a higher truth, are they not? Anyway, Acid, it has been noted, often provides "experiences" like those noted above. heck, do some peyote and find your place of power...
ah, the Plato peyote connection.....Aldous and acidMother Mary, Maryjane, and Ash wednesday....ah,,,, cool dude
By the way, the latest issue of The Journal of Near Death Studies has a long letter concerning a study about an EEG Surge at death, and what to make of this unsuspected occurrence, which seems to be found about 80% of the time.Alas, the Journal fell under my bed, and I don't want to get down on my knees with my hip as it is to get it, as I might not be able to get back up, or I'd quote some passages. Interesting stuff, if you are interested in that kind of stuff, of course.
My energy policy is quite heavy on ethanol, a substance virtually non-existent in Obama's plan.Ethanol is almost bringing up the rear on efficiency as a fuel, when you consider it takes energy to make it.
Are you saying the 'allegations' against the Israeli are pure fabrication? Seems you were just bragging about it a few weeks ago.nope, i am saying that a few weeks ago, iranian terrorists had not been arrested in thailand using the same exact equipment that was used against INSIDE the secure zone for iranian scientists.i find it quite unlikely that the iranian secret police could or would be able to fabricate the exact same kind of munitions that were attributed to the mossad hits (no evidence at all) just 12 days later in an operation that was on going in another nation for quite some time.many things are attributed to israel's long reach. regardless if it is true or not, my opinion? anything that can scare a jihadist is good, truth or not..
.You seem to have broken the possible answer down to Agnosticism, Atheism, or faith which brings us back to the shadows on the cave wall.You speak in generalities and ignore context. The conversation involving agnosticism, atheism, and faith centered on the question "Is there a God, first principle, prime mover, et al." It is a question you and I can speculate on but will never have an answer to in this life unless we 'choose' either aetheism or faith. I choose agnosticism, admitting that I don't have an answer.Agnosticism as a cop out? I'll flip you the gaunlet in return. Which do you choose? Is there a god? I'll respond further once I have your answer.I'm a big fan of the scientific method but it doesn't give us truth, it gives us what is not false - an approximation of truth.Negation is part of the Socratic Method. Eliminate the obviously incorrect until you wittle the subject down to the range of the possible. When you use calculus to solve for a derivative you can get an answer 'good enough for government work.' When it comes down an absolute, is there a god, yes or no, you can't really settle for close. One more argument for the agnostic who is willing to admit he doesn't know the answer.Or,you can fall back on faith or denial. In both cases, I see it as the height of arrogance to say that you 'know what the truth is' and that others who disagree with you do not.Plato likened knowledge as to a interpreting what the shadows on the cave wall were shadows of.You keep coming back to this but I thought we were talking about Socrates and agnosticism.To throw down the guantlet - to be an agnostic is a cop out. Saying that nothing is known nor can be known is simply to say I don't know, I have no opinion. Here, I completely disagree with you. First, as Socrates might say, you need to define your terms. I agree with Thomas Huxley on the definition of agnosticism.Agnosticism is not a creed but a method, the essence of which lies in the vigorous application of a single principle...Positively the principle may be expressed as in matters of intellect, do not pretend conclusions are certain that are not demonstrated or demonstrable.This is a more general definition of agnosticism that can be applied to matters other than just the mystical and transcendental. It would define how Socrates would view agnosticism. To say, as you do, that an agnostic merely says "that nothing is known nor can be known" is simply wrong. Socrates never said you couldn't find the truth; otherwise, why would he waste all of his time searching for it? You might as well argue that you 'know', be open to counter arguments, and adjust what you know to the 'truth'.Using the scientific or Socratic methods you are constantly adjusting trying to winnow away the chaff and reach the truth. To add in the statement that 'you know' at each step along the way...well...go back to my comments on intellectual arrogance..
.Alas, the Journal fell under my bed, and I don't want to get down on my knees with my hip as it is to get it, as I might not be able to get back up, or I'd quote some passages. Interesting stuff, if you are interested in that kind of stuff, of course.:)No matter how pissed off you get me or what I might say, you're still the man..
sniffle, that meant a lot
Wyoming passes Doomsday bill.DoomsdayThis seems an excellent and forward thinking bill. Good legislation can set one free.Life after the feds!
Doomsday Bill Here
And House members approved an amendment Friday by state Rep. Kermit Brown, R-Laramie, to have the task force also examine conditions under which Wyoming would need to implement its own military draft, raise a standing army, and acquire strike aircraft and an aircraft carrier.A mutual defense treaty with Idaho and Montana can't be far behind.
We are just beginners here.Whether you are a beginner or a dead-ender, you are certainly an optimist.
Can we please suspend the bullshit and admit it is over?WASHINGTON — The shooting deaths of two U.S. military advisers in the Afghan capital and the quick decision to pull coalition personnel from all government ministries injected a sobering measure of doubt about the reliability of the most important U.S. ally in the war.The Pentagon condemned what it called the murder of the two American officers, but said it was committed to working closely with the Afghans to counter violent extremism and to stabilize the country.
Start printing Green Cards for the poor naive bastards that thought we would make a difference.
Pay-backs will be without pity.
I am sure George Bush will find a place on his ranch for a hundred or so.
After the fall of Viet Nam, a list of 30,000 Vietnamese who had worked in the Phoenix program, a U.S.-sponsored operation responsible for the elimination of thousands of Communist agents fell into Communist hands. In one instance a convoy of 150 Saigon officers were bound and killed. Does anyone believe there will be mercy from the Taliban?Here is a philosophical dilemma, who is worse, those that took us into the nation building or those who will call it a day and get us out? They don’t yet know what road to take. We do know this. A lot of doomed Afghanis will not be on the road. Those pretty little girls in those new schools will be in deep shit but not as deep and as bad a situation as their teachers.
T, maybe Charlie Hall can explain why unsubsidized ethanol wholesales for $2.23, and subsidized gasoine wholesales for $3.17.
We are trying to make a nation, when maybe we should have been trying to make two or three. The biggest problem seems to be in the south or south west, Pashtuns. Why are we trying to integrate them with those to the north - the deceased Masood and his folks - with whom they fought for years and years? About the only thing they had in common was fighting against the Russians. Do they even speak a common language?
Maybe we should have just nuked Tora Bora, and called it a day.
.On Obama's apology,Understand this: Muslims are killing Muslims all the time. Sunnis attack Shiites, Shiites attack Sunnis. Ahmadi Muslims are attacked in sundry Islamic countries. Often, these Muslim-on-Muslim atrocities involve not only murder but also the torching of the other sect’s homes and mosques — necessarily meaning Muslims are burning Korans, and with far more mens rea than the American personnel had in Afghanistan. None of these atrocities incite global Islamic rioting — it is just Muslim-on-Muslim violence, the numbing familiarity of which calls for no comment, except perhaps to mumble that it must have something to do with how “fiercely protective of their Islamic faith” Muslims are. (Actually, it has to do with Muslims’ deeming the perceived heresies of other Muslims to be apostasy, for which sharia prescribes the death penalty.) Also understand this: In sharia societies, non-Muslim religious articles are confiscated and destroyed every single day as a matter of policy. In Saudi Arabia, where sharia is the law of the land, where Mecca and Medina are closed to non-Muslims, government guidelines prohibit Jews and Christians from bringing Bibles, crucifixes, Stars of David, and similar artifacts emblematic of their faith into the country. When that prohibition is violated, the offending items are seized and burned or otherwise destroyed. Moreover, though Saudis deny having an official policy that bans Jews from entering the country at all, reports are rampant of travelers’ being denied visas either because they are Jewish or because their passports bear stamps indicative of prior travel to Israel...Why Apologize to Iran?Lord, hear our prayer. Give us someone to vote for besides Obama or one of the Four Dwarfs...
.We are trying to make a nation, when maybe we should have been trying to make two or three.Why should WE make a nation? Or three? Or a hundred?.
What Would John Adams Do About Iran?Interesting article from Foreign Policy comparing the situation back then with France to today's situation with Iran.
Shoulda nuked Tora Bora and called it a day.Definitely.Well, we are there, Quirk, as long as we stay we might as well try to do it right, if, indeed, it is right, what I suggested.Just a suggestion.We'd have to stay a couple generations, at this rate, to have a hope of things working out.And even then things probably wouldn't work outIt's the koranMaybe genocide, and repopulate with Swiss?
They'd build some nice ski resorts, and the banking system would be reliable.
.Here you go, Bob. A vacation brocure to read with your morning coffee.OBE.
.And as the study shows, when businesses shut down, it hurts the local economy because of two related but distinct "spillover effects," as economists say: The shuttered businesses no longer need goods and services from local non-manufacturing firms, and their former workers have less money to spend locally as well. A city at the 75th percentile of exposure to Chinese manufacturing, compared to one at the 25th percentile, will have roughly a 5 percent decrease in the number of manufacturing jobs and an increase of about $65 per capita in the amount of social insurance needed, such as unemployment insurance, health care insurance and disability payments. "People like to think that workers flow freely across sectors, but in reality, they don't," Autor says. At a conservative estimate, that $65 per capita wipes out one-third of the per-capita gains realized by trade with China, in the form of cheaper goods. "Those numbers are really startling," Autor adds...MIT research: The high price of losing manufacturing jobs.
Rufus: Maybe we should have just nuked Tora Bora, and called it a day.I prefer the idea of keeping nukes for retaliation, getting these Jihadi assholes with SEALS and drones, and keeping the regular grunts on the Mexican border playing catch and release. This president is far better than McCain would have been.
bob said... I'll knock it off, Rufus, but I still can't and never will get over you saying you are voting for that fraud.---Who would that be, Bob?
I said, Doug, that I'd probably vote for Obama.
I voted for the White Guy last election, even though I agreed more with the Half-White Guy's policies. It won't happen again.
Wasp said... Rufus: Maybe we should have just nuked Tora Bora, and called it a day.I prefer the idea of keeping nukes for retaliation, getting these Jihadi assholes with SEALS and drones, and keeping the regular grunts on the Mexican border playing catch and release. This president is far better than McCain would have been.---A TAC Nuke and out makes much more sense. (Rufi right, like that proverbial clock.)The special forces accomplished their mission perfectly.Rummy wanted in and out quick like.The Regular Army and Compassionate "Conservative" Christian George wanted to pretend, once again, that long wars can change the World.They do.Sadly, not for the better.At least we have the perfect POTUS to arrange, and preside over one of the most humiliating Debacles in the history of the USA.He comes several times each time this once great country "gets what it deserves."He studied Chicken Roosting Behavior for 20 years under his master minister.
Rufus II said... I said, Doug, that I'd probably vote for Obama.---You sir, are an Anti-American, Socialist, ASSHOLE.
Doug said...Rufus II said... I said, Doug, that I'd probably vote for Obama.---You sir, are an Anti-American, Socialist, ASSHOLE.Well said.......
The point is moot. We are watching the beginning of a classic collapse. The only thing that could stop it is if the Taliban doesn’t recognize the opportunity handed to them.Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- A protest over the burning of Qurans at a U.S. base turned violent Sunday, leaving a protester dead and several U.S. service members and police wounded, officials said.The violence in northern Kunduz province came a day after a gunman killed two U.S. military officers inside the highly secured Afghanistan Ministry of Interior.U.S. officials have said the burning of the Muslim holy books was inadvertent.The demonstration Sunday began peacefully, said Kunduz police spokesman Sayed Sarwar Hussaini. But it soon turned violence as demonstrators attacked the police chief's office and a U.S. military site.Protesters threw a hand grenade at the base, injuring seven U.S. military personnel believed to be Special Forces members, Hussaini said. NATO's International Security Assistance Force had no immediate comment on the number of wounded or their roles in the military.Capt. David Yaryar, an ISAF spokesman, said there was an explosion and then small arms fire at the site, and that several ISAF personnel were wounded and evacuated for medical care.The attack took place at Combat Outpost Fortitude, ISAF said.
I will take a brave general to state the obvious.
National Average $3.68They're selling E85 in Iowa, and Nebraska for $2.89/gal.
Right now Taliban operatives are threatening Afghan security forces telling them the Americans are leaving and the only thing saving them and their families is if they make a move and take out some American and western forces.
The groveling in front of an enemy only emboldens them. They know they have won. We did the same thing in Guantanamo having MPs handle Korans with white gloves. The good news is that we should finally have learned the lesson that when it comes to war, it needs to be total to be effective. It can also be localized, focused but must be extremely lethal. Long drawn out wars allow the enemy to develop and refine their response on the cheap. it allows for propaganda to take root.How many times have you heard the idiotic refrain that we won every battle in Viet Nam? That is like saying your every move in a chess game was brilliant but you lost the match.We are down three chess matches in a row, Viet Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan. All for the same stupid mistake called nation building.
Deuce said...Right now Taliban operatives are threatening Afghan security forces telling them the Americans are leaving and the only thing saving them and their families is if they make a move and take out some American and western forces.right!so America, under the leadership of Obama is turning tail and running away from a clusterfuck of his own creation. This is ALL on purpose. The tripling of troops, coupled with the change in rules of engagement and the politically correctness was all a formula to teach us arrogant westerners that you cannot win a fight with any islamic peoples.Welcome to the dhimmi nature of being a western person or nation under the leadership of our cuckolding President.I see many have risen to take the bait and embrace the teachable lesson that obama has taught us...Run away, Run away, stupid infidels just are cowards and run away...What would be my solution?Death to all Taliban.Put a bounty on their heads.Stop trying to build society for group of 13th century savages.Any Taliban should be shot on sight.That is a start.
Deuce is finally puling his head out of his ass!We are down three chess matches in a row, Viet Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan. All for the same stupid mistake called nation building.Well said.The enemy should be KILLED.Fast, Hard and without any mercy.They need to learn to survive from the collection of rubble.If the fart in our general direction again?Reduce the nation to rubble, no water, sewage, power of any sort.
Development is a process whereby insignificant and imperceptible quantitative changes lead to fundamental, qualitative changes. Qualitative changes occur not gradually, but rapidly and abruptly, as leaps from one state to another. A simple example from the physical world is the heating of water: a one degree increase in temperature is a quantitative change, but between water of 100 degrees and steam of 100 degrees (the effect latent heat) there is a qualitative change. "Merely quantitative differences, beyond a certain point, pass into qualitative changes." --Karl Marx, Capital, Vol. 1.--- "Ethanol will save the World"--Rufus, Capital, Vol. 2.MATERIALISTIC PROOF:
The World will be just fine; it's the humans that are fucked.George Carlin
Only humans would pay $4.00/gal for gas, and pay farmers NOT to plant Thirty Million Acres.
John Kennedy got us into Viet Nam. Reagan nursed the Taliban and helped them learn how to defeat a major power. The destabilization of Afghanistan gave a home and base for AQ. Clinton showed the AG how to get the west to do their dirty work in Bosnia and Kosovo. They showed how easily the Western press can be manipulated. The Neocons played Bush for the fool that he is. The game continues with Libya, Syria and Iran.
30 Million Acres that could, easily, produce 20 Billion Gallons of Home-Grown Fuel.And, we Pay them to leave it fallow.Yeah, we're Brainiacs.
Interestingly, that's one farm program the Republicans never attack. Don't you ever wonder, "Why?"
Rufus: They're selling E85 in Iowa, and Nebraska for $2.89/gal.You yourself said there was a glut of petroleum product in the middle of the country that depresses prices of E10 there, and if that was not the case, and E10 was $4.25 like in Cali, then E85 would fetch $4.10.
Wasp, that didn't make any sense at all. E85 is 85% Ethanol/15% gasoline.Ethanol is wholesaling for $2.23/gal as of yesterday.
The thing about Ethanol is it can be produced "Locally" in all 57 States. :)
"Reagan nursed the Taliban and helped them learn how to defeat a major power. "---That would have collapsed anyhow, but would have eliminated these Barbarians in the process.WILSON'S WARI would ask my wife, (if I could) she read that, and thousands of others.But I can't.
Sorry to hear that, Doug.
Remember 30 years ago when the Left's excuse for opposing drilling for oil was that we wouldn't see any for 10 years?Feb. 26 (Bloomberg) -- Republican presidential primary hopeful Rick Santorum said he doesn’t believe in the separation of church and state, noting that a speech on the topic by former President John F. Kennedy makes him want to “throw up.”“I don’t believe that the separation of church and state is absolute,” Santorum said in an interview today on ABC’s “This Week” program. “The First Amendment means the free exercise of religion and that means bringing people and their faith into the public square.”If Mitt loses Michigan this is what the GOP will send up against Obama.62 years ago, the US Marines raised the flag on Iwo Jima! God Bless the men and women of the United States Military!
Regular gas has 10% ethanol, at least over here on the Best Coast.
Thanks, Rufus:It was only 46 years,I'll get used to it in a heartbeat.
Actually, to be completely accurate, E85 only has 70% Ethanol, this time of year.And, it was selling as low as $.74/gal in Nebraska, yesterday.
Oops, that should have been $2.74/gal.
.Doug,So sorry to hear about your wife..
Sorry for your loss Doug. Going on twenty-three years here, that's not even half.
Doug,Sorry to hear your bad news. We all were hoping for her recovery. We have to be grateful for the good times while they last and the memories when they end.Deuce
Wasp said...Sorry for your loss Doug. Going on twenty-three years here, that's not even half.Doug I feel for your situation,Wasp? Dont trust anything you say or lie about...
Oh, Doug, I am so sorry. Know that you and your family are in my thoughts. Peace. Mel
WUXI, China — Along this city's historic canal, in a location picked for its good feng shui, a 59-acre complex of commercial and residential towers not long ago looked like a sure winner....Today, the Xi Shui Dong development stands less than half complete, hamstrung by its parent company's high debt.
In the past century, four candidates defeated incumbent presidents running for reelection. Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan, and Bill Clinton were formidable political figures....Whatever one thinks of their subsequent policies, Wilson, FDR, Reagan, and Clinton won the Oval Office. Will the GOP nominee this year?In choosing between Romney and Santorum, you, the Republican primary voters, will have to decide which one, as general election candidate, will be able to make the broadest and deepest case for replacing the incumbent, and which one, as president, can reverse the dangerous trajectory of the Obama era.Reagan, Clinton...?
Not sure what what's happening. Must've missed something somewhere along the way.But, all the best, Doug, just the same.
Here is a whole series of articles concerning attacking or not attacking Iran from Foreign Affairs.
We've been expressing sympathy over the passing of Doug's wife, Sam, though my comments have been eaten till now.
That is terrible news. Sorry to hear, Doug.
In Spain, telecom giant Telefónica SA also is having doubts. "We can't keep subsidies at these levels," José Miguel Gilpérez, CEO of Telefónica Spain, recently told Spanish newspaper El País....For phone makers, any change by carriers could have an impact on the sales of high-end devices.In the U.S., where contract plans and phone subsidies dominate, IDC says that around 90% of smartphone shipments over the past four years were for devices that cost more than $300—despite the recession and uncertain recovery. In Italy, where prepaid plans dominate, that proportion was 67% last year, and in crisis-hit Greece and Portugal, only about 40% of the smartphones shipped in 2011 cost more than $300.