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Friday, February 03, 2012

Tell Netanyahu that if he goes to war with Iran, he goes alone.

Is Israel preparing to attack Iran?

By David Ignatius, Published: February 2

BRUSSELS WAPO

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta has a lot on his mind these days, from cutting the defense budget to managing the drawdown of U.S. forces in Afghanistan. But his biggest worry is the growing possibility that Israel will attack Iran over the next few months.

Panetta believes there is a strong likelihood that Israel will strike Iran in April, May or June — before Iran enters what Israelis described as a “zone of immunity” to commence building a nuclear bomb. Very soon, the Israelis fear, the Iranians will have stored enough enriched uranium in deep underground facilities to make a weapon — and only the United States could then stop them militarily.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu doesn’t want to leave the fate of Israel dependent on American action, which would be triggered by intelligence that Iran is building a bomb, which it hasn’t done yet.

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak may have signaled the prospect of an Israeli attack soon when he asked last month to postpone a planned U.S.-Israel military exercise that would culminate in a live-fire phase in May. Barak apologized that Israel couldn’t devote the resources to the annual exercise this spring.

President Obama and Panetta are said to have cautioned the Israelis that the United States opposes an attack, believing that it would derail an increasingly successful international economic sanctions program and other non-military efforts to stop Iran from crossing the threshold. But the White House hasn’t yet decided precisely how the United States would respond if the Israelis do attack.

The Obama administration is conducting intense discussions about what an Israeli attack would mean for the United States: whether Iran would target U.S. ships in the region or try to close the Strait of Hormuz; and what effect the conflict and a likely spike in oil prices would have on the fragile global economy.

The administration appears to favor staying out of the conflict unless Iran hits U.S. assets, which would trigger a strong U.S. response.

This U.S. policy — signaling that Israel is acting on its own — might open a breach like the one in 1956, when President Dwight Eisenhower condemned an Israeli-European attack on the Suez Canal. Complicating matters is the 2012 presidential campaign, which has Republicans candidates clamoring for stronger U.S. support of Israel.

Administration officials caution that Tehran shouldn’t misunderstand: The United States has a 60-year commitment to Israeli security, and if Israel’s population centers were hit, the United States could feel obligated to come to Israel’s defense.

Israelis are said to believe that a military strike could be limited and contained. They would bomb the uranium-enrichment facility at Natanz and other targets; an attack on the buried enrichment facility at Qom would be harder from the air. Iranians would retaliate, but Israelis doubt that the action would be an overwhelming barrage, with rockets from Hezbollah forces in Lebanon. One Israeli estimate is that the Jewish state might have to absorb 500 casualties.

Israelis point to Syria’s lack of response to an Israeli attack on a nuclear reactor there in 2007. Iranians might show similar restraint, because of fear the regime would be endangered by all-out war. Some Israelis have also likened a strike on Iran to the 1976 hostage-rescue raid on Entebbe, Uganda, which was followed by a change of regime in that country.

Israeli leaders are said to accept, and even welcome, the prospect of going it alone and demonstrating their resolve at a time when their security is undermined by the Arab Spring.

“You stay to the side, and let us do it,” one Israeli official is said to have advised the United States. A “short-war” scenario assumes five days or so of limited Israeli strikes, followed by a U.N.-brokered cease-fire. The Israelis are said to recognize that damage to the nuclear program might be modest, requiring another strike in a few years.

U.S. officials see two possible ways to dissuade the Israelis from such an attack: Tehran could finally open serious negotiations for a formula to verifiably guarantee that its nuclear program will remain a civilian one; or the United States could step up its covert actions to degrade the program so much that Israelis would decide that military action wasn’t necessary.

U.S. officials don’t think that Netanyahu has made a final decision to attack, and they note that top Israeli intelligence officials remain skeptical of the project. But senior Americans doubt that the Israelis are bluffing. They’re worrying about the guns of spring — and the unintended consequences.

davidignatius@washpost.com

265 comments:

  1. I thought yesterday was ground hog day!

    ReplyDelete
  2. you are always on my mind, you are always on my mind,,,,

    ReplyDelete
  3. If I forget you, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget its skill!

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  4. President Barack Obama approved new sanctions against Iran a week ago, targeting the central bank and its ability to sell oil abroad.

    The US has delayed implementing the sanctions for at least six months, worried about sending the price of oil higher at a time when the global economy is
    struggling.





    So let's SAY we are going to implement sanctions but really do nothing...
     again..  just let the clock run out...



    Like
    Charlie Brown, the Football and Lucy...

    ReplyDelete
  5. January 2 2012 at 01:10am
    By Parisa Hafezi
    Comment on this story

    Reuters
    Iran's Navy commander Habibollah Sayyari (centre) points while standing on a naval ship during the Velayat-90 war games near the Strait of Hormuz. Iran test-fired a new medium-range missile, designed to evade radars, on Sunday during the last days of its naval drill in the Gulf, the official IRNA news agency reported.
    Tehran - Iran announced a nuclear fuel breakthrough and test-fired a new radar-evading medium-range missile in the Gulf on Sunday, moves that could further antagonise the West at a time when Tehran is trying to avert harsh new sanctions on its oil industry.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Iran and Venezuela are feverishly building ICBM bases on the Paraguana Peninsula, a thumbnail shaped spit of arid land around a thousand square miles in size, 250 miles northwest of Caracas. These bases are designed to house missiles with nuclear tipped warheads capable of reaching large portions of the United States.

    Doesnt sound like Bibi's issue to me...

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  7. Days ago, Germany’s Die Welt published an investigative report on a secret agreement between Venezuela and Iran for a joint medium-range missile base on Venezuelan soil. The 1,100 word article by columnist Clemens Wergin, outlines not only the location of the base, but offers details on its design and strategic purpose, which will not only pose a threat to the United States, but to Venezuela’s Latin American adversaries, including Colombia.

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  8. it's ok, obama's got your back...


    Jan. 31 (Bloomberg) -- Iran is stepping up its support for international terrorism and its intelligence operations against the U.S., the Director of National Intelligence told Congress.

    “The 2011 plot to assassinate the Saudi ambassador to the United States shows that some Iranian officials -- probably including Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei -- have changed their calculus and are now more willing to conduct an attack in the United States in response to real or perceived actions that threaten the regime,” James Clapper said in a statement today to the Senate Intelligence Committee.

    Iran’s willingness to sponsor attacks against the U.S. at home or abroad “probably will be shaped by Tehran’s evaluation of the costs it bears for the plot against the ambassador as well as Iranian leaders’ perceptions of U.S. threats against the regime,” he said in an opening statement to the committee’s annual threat-assessment hearing.

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  9. Not to worry! Obama sent a letter!

    TEHRAN, Iran — An Iranian lawmaker claimed Wednesday that President Barack Obama called for direct talks with Iran in a secret letter to the Islamic Republic's supreme leader that also warned Tehran against closing the strategic Strait of Hormuz.

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  10. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey told Israeli leaders Jan. 20 that the United States would not participate in a war against Iran begun by Israel without prior agreement from Washington, according to accounts from well-placed senior military officers.

    Dempsey’s warning, conveyed to both Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak, represents the strongest move yet by President Barack Obama to deter an Israeli attack and ensure that the United States is not caught up in a regional conflagration with Iran.
    ...
    The message carried by Dempsey was the first explicit statement to the Netanyahu government that the United States would not defend Israel if it attacked Iran unilaterally. But Defense Secretary Leon Panetta had given a clear hint in an interview on “Face the Nation” Jan. 8 that the Obama administration would not help defend Israel in a war against Iran that Israel had initiated.

    Asked how the United States would react if Israel were to launch a unilateral attack on Iran, Panetta first emphasized the need for a coordinated policy toward Iran with Israel. But when host Bob Schieffer repeated the question, Panetta said,
    “If the Israelis made that decision, we would have to be prepared to protect our forces in that situation. And that’s what we’d be concerned about.”

    ReplyDelete
  11. Earlier this month, in “Iran, Russia Replace Dollar With Rial, Ruble in Trade,” Bloomberg reported:

    “Iran and Russia replaced the U.S. dollar with their national currencies in bilateral trade . . . . The proposal to switch to the ruble and the rial was raised by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev at a meeting with his Iranian counterpart, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad . . . . Iran has replaced the dollar in its oil trade with India, China and Japan.”

    This announcement constitutes a body blow to the dollar. Insofar as China, Japan, India and Russia (the 2nd, 3rd, 9th and 11th largest economies in the world) are beginning to trade in their own currencies and without the intervening “aid” of US dollars, the dollar is clearly being stripped of its status as World Reserve Currency and “petro-dollar”. Without that status, the extrinsic support for the dollar’s value must fade and the dollar will be increasingly subject to inflation and devaluation.

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  12. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey also told Israeli leaders Jan. 20 that the United States would not participate in a war against Iran begun by Israel without prior agreement from Washington, according to accounts from well-placed senior military officers.

    Then the Chairman started to cry saying how the American President was attempting to destroy America and begged Israel to do the work of world, again.

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  13. Obama really hates America, wants to see it cuckholded.

    The Chairman went on to grovel at the Israeli's feet pleading with him to understand that Obama was a President for only 10 more months.

    The Chairman was quoted as saying "Iran is not Israel's problem, but right now? America is useless"

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  14. Here's a great target...

    VIENNA — Diplomats on Monday confirmed a report that Iran has begun uranium enrichment at an underground bunker and said the news is particularly worrying because the site is being used to make material that can be upgraded more quickly for use in a nuclear weapon than the nation's main enriched stockpile.
    The diplomats said that centrifuges at the Fordo site near Iran's holy city of Qom are churning out uranium enriched to 20 percent. That level is higher than the 3.5 percent being made at Iran's main enrichment plant and can be turned into fissile warhead material faster and with less work.


    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/71236.html#ixzz1lJlLCjo7

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  15. Here is an excellent map of all the most important iranian nuke sites.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11927720

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  16. Arak - Heavy water plant

    Iran is building a reactor at Arak, where it already has a heavy-water production plant
    The existence of a heavy water facility near the town of Arak first emerged with the publication of satellite images by the US-based Institute for Science and International Security in December 2002.

    Heavy water is used to moderate the nuclear fission chain reaction either in a certain type of reactor - albeit not the type that Iran is currently building - or produce plutonium for use in a nuclear bomb.

    In August 2010, the IAEA visited the IR-40 heavy water reactor site at Arak. It said the facility was still being built but some major equipment had been installed. Iran told the IAEA the operation of the reactor was planned to start by the end of 2013.

    The IAEA said that based on satellite imagery, the heavy water production plant appeared to be in operation, but had not had access to it to confirm such reports.

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  17. Bushehr - Nuclear power station

    The reactor building at Bushehr was built with Russian help
    Iran's nuclear programme began in 1974 with plans to build a nuclear power station at Bushehr with German assistance.

    The project was abandoned because of the Islamic revolution five years later, but revived in the 1990s when Tehran signed an agreement with Russia to resume work at the site.

    Moscow delayed completion on the project while the UN Security Council debated and then passed resolutions aimed at stopping uranium enrichment in Iran.

    In December 2007, Moscow started delivering the canisters of enriched uranium the plant needs.

    Earlier in the same month, a US intelligence report said Iran was not currently running a military nuclear programme.

    There are two pressurised water reactors at the site.

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  18. Gachin - Uranium mine

    Yellowcake is used in the preparation of fuel for nuclear reactors
    In December 2010, Iran said it had delivered its first domestically produced uranium ore concentrate, or yellowcake, to a plant that can make it ready for enrichment.

    Iran's nuclear chief Ali Akbar Salehi said the first batch of yellowcake had been sent from Gachin mine sent to a conversion facility at Isfahan.

    Mining operations started at the Gachin in 2004.

    Iran was believed to be running low on its stock of yellowcake, originally imported from South Africa in the 1970s.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Isfahan - Uranium conversion plant

    Iran is building a plant at a nuclear research facility to convert yellowcake into three forms:

    Hexafluoride gas - used in gas centrifuges
    Uranium oxide - used to fuel reactors, albeit not the type Iran is constructing
    Metal - often used in the cores of nuclear bombs. The IAEA is concerned about the metal's use, as Iran's reactors do not require it as fuel.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Natanz - Uranium enrichment plant

    Iran is planning new facilities at Natanz
    Iran resumed uranium enrichment work at Natanz in July 2004, after a halt during negotiations with leading European powers over its programme.

    It announced in September 2007 that it had installed 3,000 centrifuges, the machines that do the enrichment. In 2010, Iran told the IAEA Natanz would be the venue for new enrichment facilities - construction of which would start around March 2011.

    This is the facility at the heart of Iran's dispute with the United Nations Security Council.

    The Council is concerned because the technology used for producing fuel for nuclear power can be used to enrich the uranium to a much higher level to produce a nuclear explosion.

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  21. Parchin
    One area at Parchin has been identified as a suspected nuclear weapons development facility.

    The overall complex is one of Iran's leading munitions centres - for the research, development and production of ammunition, rockets and high explosives. A limited inspection carried out by the IAEA in 2005 found no proof of any nuclear weapons activity at Parchin.

    But according to information from an IAEA report in November 2011, it is believed the site has also been used for testing high explosives that could be used in nuclear weapons.

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  22. Qom - Uranium enrichment plant

    IAEA says work started on Qom site earlier than Iran suggests
    In January 2012, Iran said it had begun uranium enrichment at the heavily fortified site of Fordo near the holy city of Qom.

    It had revealed the existence of the facility, about 30km (20 miles) north of the city, in September 2009.

    Iran initially informed the IAEA that it was constructing the plant to produce uranium enriched up to 5% - commonly used in nuclear power production.

    In June 2011, Iran told the IAEA that it was planning to produce uranium enriched up to 20% at Fordo - and would subsequently stop 20% fuel production at Natanz.

    ReplyDelete
  23. That was a basic list.

    There are more sites, including several in syria that have gone under the radar.

    If Israel does the world's job again, it will also take out the syrian sites as well.

    "Home Satellite Image Shows Syrian Site Functionally Related to Al Kibar Reactor
    ISIS Reports
    Satellite Image Shows Syrian Site Functionally Related to Al Kibar Reactor

    by David Albright and Paul Brannan

    December 1, 2010

    Download PDF
    The Sueddeutsche Zeitung has reported the names of three cities in Syria which are near sites suspected of being functionally related to a destroyed covert reactor construction project. These suspect sites are located near Masyaf, the village of Marj as-Sultan near Damascus, and Iskandariyah (see figure 1).

    ISIS has learned that the site seen in Figure 2 is the suspect site located near Masyaf. This site is located approximately six kilometers northeast of Masyaf city center 1 in Syria (see figures 3 and 4), and appears to be comprised of storage buildings. Aside from what could be a line of berms or trenches (see figure 5), the site does not appear to have many security measures visible in commercial satellite imagery. The entire site, however, is situated in a ravine between two hills and buildings at the site are located along the base of the hills—a common method for providing general protection and isolation. This could indicate that the site is a military depot/storage facility. Hundreds of items can also be seen stored in rows out in the open (see figures 6 and 7). It is unclear what these items are.

    Syria was secretly building a reactor in the Dair Alzour region along the Euphrates River with assistance from North Korean trading companies. After acquiring incriminating ground photographs taken inside the reactor building, Israeli jets bombed the facility in a pre-dawn raid in September of 2007. In April of 2008, member states provided information on the reactor project to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) as well as the locations of three other sites in Syria suspected of being functionally related to the reactor. ISIS has learned that there is an additional site that the IAEA is interested in visiting, bringing the total to four sites. The IAEA has repeatedly asked Syria for access to these sites, but Syria has so far refused.

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  24. Despite fresh EU sanctions against Iran's oil exports, China has shown interest in Iran's oil with hiring at least two supertankers to ship oil from the country.


    Clarkson Research Services Ltd., a unit of the world's largest shipbroker, announced the two supertankers were booked to carry about 2 million barrels of crude from Iran's Khark Island to China.

    Qi Lian San, a large crude carrier anchored near Singapore, was booked to load 270,000 tons of crude at Khark Island from Feb. 3 to Feb. 5 and carry the cargo to China, Clarkson said.

    The Chinese oil trader, Zhuhai Zhenrong Co., also booked an unidentified ship owned by the National Iranian Tanker Co. to load 265,000 tons of crude in Khark Island on Jan. 29 and sail to the Chinese port city of Ningbo.

    Two other ships, Davar and Hoda, which called at an Iranian oil terminal, are heading for China, Bloomberg reported.

    Ship-tracking data show Davar is sailing to Ningbo after leaving Iran's Soroush terminal on Jan. 11, and Hoda is bound for Shui Dong. The National Iranian Tanker Co. owns both very large carriers.

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  25. ... the 2006 Lebanon War debacle continues to haunt the thinking of IDF leaders. In that war, it became clear that the IDF had not been ready to handle Hezbollah rocket attacks adequately, and the prestige of the Israeli military suffered a serious blow.

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  26. A bipartisan US policy group wants to provide Israel with 200 additional bunker-buster bombs to increase the credibility of a military strike aimed at thwarting Iran's nuclear program.
    The proposal is part of a report issued today by the Bipartisan Policy Center's National Security Project, a non-profit research group in Washington.
    The group, led by former Democratic Senator Charles Robb of Virginia and retired General Charles Wald, a former deputy commander of US European Command, called for providing Israel 200 GBU-31 bunker-buster bombs and two or three KC-135 aerial refueling tankers. Israel already has about a dozen of the tankers needed to enable Israeli warplanes to strike targets in Iran, according to the report.


    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-push-to-give-israel-smart-bombs-for-iran-attack-20120202-1qub7.html#ixzz1lJprQ47T

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  27. The recent exchange of fire between the IDF and Lebanese Armed Forces troops is a reminder that Israel’s northern border has been relatively quiet these last five years, or ever since the 2006 war that Israel fought with Hezbollah. Five years ago, on July 12, a Hezbollah ambush set off the 34-day conflict that has loomed large over the region ever since. In the war’s immediate aftermath, many outside observers hailed Hezbollah as the winner.

    However, five years later our understanding of the war is different. Israel, despite its many blunders—political, diplomatic, and military—and despite the sacrifice of 121 soldiers and the loss of 44 civilians, comes out looking much better than it did back then. Deterrence has been re-established and in spite of operations against Hezbollah targets, like the 2008 assassination of Imad Mughniyeh in Damascus, attributed to Israel, the border is quieter than ever. The five-year anniversary provides an opportunity to reexamine the conflict, and what others may learn from it, including American officials.

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  28. Deterrence has been re-established

    Hezbollah was pounded.

    Southern Lebanon is still a shithole

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  29. Despite EU sanctions ...

    The EU sanctions were designed, by US, to increase China's ability to buy Iranian crude at discount.

    That is moving forward, as planned.

    Will we see how the Chinese respond if their ships are attacked by the "Pirates of the Mediterranean"?

    China 'has up to 3,000 nuclear weapons hidden in tunnels', three-year study of secret documents reveals

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  30. Israel Defense Forces:
    121 killed
    (including 2 captured soldiers)
    628 wounded

    600 Hezbollah militia killed

    Wounded:
    1,500
    Captured: 4 fighters
    Amal militia: 17 dead
    LCP militia: 12 dead
    PFLP-GC militia: 2 dead
    Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps: 9 dead
    Lebanese Army and Police Forces: 43 dead

    Israeli civilians:
    44 dead[24][25]
    33 seriously wounded
    68 moderately wounded
    1,388 lightly wounded[26]

    Lebanese civilians:
    1,191[27] dead
    4,409 wounded[27]


    Sure sounds like the side that STARTED the war, the Arabs, got their asses kicked......

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  31. So, now you are saying that deterrence and MAD does work with Islamic radicals?

    ReplyDelete
  32. Welcome aboard!

    Glad you agree that deterrence DOES work, even when ineptly applied!

    ReplyDelete
  33. desert rat said...
    Despite EU sanctions ...

    The EU sanctions were designed, by US, to increase China's ability to buy Iranian crude at discount.

    That is moving forward, as planned.

    Will we see how the Chinese respond if their ships are attacked by the "Pirates of the Mediterranean"?


    Are you referring to the Palestinians Herr Rodent? Or the Somoli's?

    Israel has NEVER attacked an oil tanker in it's history

    Or maybe Iran sinks them, they have a history of sinking tankers....

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  34. Start a war, get your ass kicked...

    That is a concept that little countries would do well to absorb.

    ReplyDelete
  35. desert rat said...
    So, now you are saying that deterrence and MAD does work with Islamic radicals?


    No, i am saying that Israel did not lose the war you claim it lost.

    The reason the border is quiet is that Hezbollah got it's ass kicked.

    It will try again as soon as it thinks it is able.

    I suggest cluster bombs and napalm, no warning and the burning of any and all hezbollah arms depots, regardless if in residential areas or not.

    I believe in the deterrence theory that when hezbolllah is dead they will be deterred,

    ReplyDelete
  36. desert rat said...
    Start a war, get your ass kicked...

    That is a concept that little countries would do well to absorb.



    And big stupid ones as well...

    ReplyDelete
  37. I've never claimed Israel lost the battle in Lebanon, jut that they did not win it.

    Hezbollah, as you say, is still there. So they did not lose.

    Hezbollah is better armed now, than they were then. So they did not lose.

    Hezbollah more influential in Lebanon now, than they were then.
    They did not lose.

    Neither did Israel.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Israel just proved they could not project military power, well, beyond its borders.

    That that military solution failed.

    Or Hezbollah would have been destroyed, and they were not.

    Just as will occur with military action against Iran.

    The consequences are unknown, but there will be many that are unintended and not initially favorable to US interests.

    ReplyDelete
  39. desert rat said...
    I've never claimed Israel lost the battle in Lebanon, jut that they did not win it.

    Hezbollah, as you say, is still there. So they did not lose.

    Hezbollah is better armed now, than they were then. So they did not lose.

    Hezbollah more influential in Lebanon now, than they were then.
    They did not lose.




    Hezbollah is stronger now, thanks to Iran, Russia and Syria.

    Hezbollah is now an official part of Lebanese government, thanks to it's brutal take over and American support.

    When the next war comes, and it will, there will be many more legal targets for destruction.

    THe Lebanese government is now targeted .

    Winning?

    Losing?

    all nonsense.

    In the end, Hezbollah will be dealt with, just as Hamas will be dealt with.

    Both are still are around and some argue stronger.

    Strength is relative.

    When new actions and wars are fought, they are not fought from years past measure.

    Israel has gone thru the fire of hypocrisy a the UN, the fake friends and now knows what it must do for it's own survival.

    Operation Cast Lead part 2 will not be part 2, but will be a completely different hammer like application.

    The same goes for Hezbollah.

    1 in 4 homes in southern lebanon is an actual rocket or ammo depot, they will not be spared this time.

    There will not be weeks wasted dropping leaflets warning southern lebanese to flee.

    There will be no cell phone calls telling them to get out.

    Israel has learned many lessons.

    So dont come a crying about disportional force again, Israel will be fighting to win.

    Your screeches about "firecrackers' "homemade rockets" "innocent civilians" will be ignored.

    Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran (and others) are spoiling for a fight. I am sorry your relatives will be killed, maimed or made homeless but too bad.

    ReplyDelete
  40. desert rat said...
    Israel just proved they could not project military power, well, beyond its borders.

    That that military solution failed.




    Nonsense. But keep telling yourself that....



    ERat: Or Hezbollah would have been destroyed, and they were not.


    Not to worry, Israel will use more explosives next time, please keep your screeches down this time, not like last time when you complained how excessive the IDF was....



    Rat:Just as will occur with military action against Iran.

    The consequences are unknown, but there will be many that are unintended and not initially favorable to US interests.




    Maybe., maybe not.

    Who knows?

    Maybe Obama attacks in October to try to win reelection?

    Maybe the French, Brits and Israel attack?

    Maybe something we dont know happens....

    ReplyDelete
  41. The Israeli admit they cannot stop the Iranian nuclear program with military strikes. That they can only delay the inevitable, by a couple of years.

    They "think" they can limit the scale and scope of a war with Iran, after they start it.

    What if the Iranians buy nuclear weapons, after being attacked, rather than building their own capability.

    The NorKs will sell, the Pakistani who can tell?

    How about from a Russian General, breaking bad?

    ReplyDelete
  42. But I can promise you something fur sur...

    Any islamic aggression against israel?

    will be paid back 10 fold...

    so deterrence may not work, killing enough of them does....

    ReplyDelete
  43. desert rat said...
    The Israeli admit they cannot stop the Iranian nuclear program with military strikes. That they can only delay the inevitable, by a couple of years.

    They "think" they can limit the scale and scope of a war with Iran, after they start it.

    What if the Iranians buy nuclear weapons, after being attacked, rather than building their own capability.

    The NorKs will sell, the Pakistani who can tell?

    How about from a Russian General, breaking bad?





    You actually make a reasonable point, All the more reason to advocate a governmental change in Iran.

    Time to redraw the Islamic national map.

    Free Kurdistan.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Iran has been at war with America since 1978

    Iran has murdered thousands of American Gi's

    But let's not call a spade a spade. Lets just point our appeasing finger at Israel and warn them not to protect themselves as we in America refuse to do.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Bibi Netanyahu wants the US to pander to his paranoid fantasy that Iran is going to attack Israel. Unfortunately, the same fools that dragged us through two useless ten year wars think a third war would just about do the trick.

    Romney, has already announced that his first move in office on Air Force One will be to check in with a trip to Israel.

    Obama should tell Netanyahu, not on his watch, not no, hell no!

    If Obama has the courage and the wisdom to end the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq after having eliminated bin Laden and successfully forces Israel to go it alone, he will have demonstrated to me his responsibilities to the first country that should matter to a US president, The United States.

    ReplyDelete
  46. It is the news. The obsession is with Netanyahu and his wet dream that he can drag the US into a war with Iran. Each day there is another hint and foreshadowing of what is planned. Today the story is top line at Drudge. The subject of keeping the US out of an unnecessary war does not bore me.

    As usual, you do a chaffing run thinking that carpet bombing will hide the fact that you cannot muster a single convincing argument.

    ReplyDelete
  47. DEUCE: If Obama has the courage and the wisdom to end the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq after having eliminated bin Laden and successfully forces Israel to go it alone, he will have demonstrated to me his responsibilities to the first country that should matter to a US president, The United States.


    Get your asshole stretched Deuce. If you think that obama is doing anything good for America.


    You just dont understand that Iran is gunning for America.

    Your lack of vision, not mine.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Deuce said...
    It is the news. The obsession is with Netanyahu and his wet dream that he can drag the US into a war with Iran.



    It aint Bibi's wet dream.

    Iran is at war with the USA, has been for 30 years.

    You just dont want to see the American's without limbs...

    You ignore Iranian IED's, terror, proxy wars at your own leisure.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Deuce said...
    Bibi Netanyahu wants the US to pander to his paranoid fantasy that Iran is going to attack Israel.



    Are you on crack?

    Really?

    Do you not listen to the Iranians?

    Do you not read what Iran DOES?

    The reason Israel is surrounded by 100,000 rockets is IRAN

    You show your own bias by dismissing it as "paranoid fantasy"...

    Just how many terrorist attacks, murders, deaths, rockets, open announcement does it take for you to get the message?

    iran is open and honest about it's plans.

    It hold RALLIES in Iran about a world without Israel and America. Do you think it's fiction?????

    You are deluded, naive and or willfully ignorant.

    But keep blaming Israel and bibi for everything...

    twit

    ReplyDelete
  50. Deuce: The subject of keeping the US out of an unnecessary war does not bore me.

    In March 1980, the NSA intercepted conversations between Ed Koch and Menachim Begin, who was advising the mayor on the best way to help Ted Kennedy defeat the President, because Carter threatened to cut off all aid to Israel two years prior when the IDF launched Operation Litani and killed two thousand people in southern Lebanon, many of them civilians, and refused to obey a UN resolution to withdraw.

    ReplyDelete
  51. deuce: The subject of keeping the US out of an unnecessary war does not bore me.


    What is a necessary war?

    Does Iran threaten America?

    Dont think so, tell us why....

    ReplyDelete
  52. Deuce: If Obama has the courage and the wisdom to end the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq after having eliminated bin Laden and successfully forces Israel to go it alone, he will have demonstrated to me his responsibilities to the first country that should matter to a US president, The United States.

    When Leon Panetta announced the draw down of US forces in Asscrackistan would happen in 2013, that went a long way toward rehabilitating the Obama Administration in my mind. I will have to do some serious thinking when it's time to choose between Obama and Romney.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Deuce, it's clear...

    You hate Israel, all she stands for. You despise the fact she exists.

    Sorry.

    If only Israel would just commit suicide, your view of the world would improve.

    those pesky Jews that refuse to just die..

    Yep we have seen it before. and you are going right down the path...

    Isolationist America.

    Peace in our time...

    If only we didnt bother the islamists...

    It's the Jews fault...

    Been there before.

    But your views are clear to some of us...

    ReplyDelete
  54. wasp: When Leon Panetta announced the draw down of US forces in Asscrackistan would happen in 2013, that went a long way toward rehabilitating the Obama Administration in my mind.




    Sure, triple the troops in afghanistan, change the ROE so that it would be impossible to win a war, then withdraw as hero in chief...

    you have been played.

    ReplyDelete
  55. duece cant handle the chemo anymore so he is now willing to let the cancer take its course. He just wants to do his bucket list and “go sky diving and rocky mountain climbing”. Good for him, bad for future generations who’ll have to live with nuked missiles pointing at them from places like Venezuela and near offshore locations controlled by mullatic fanatics. Love of country means don’t touch my 401k and if you love your moolah love the mullah.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Deuce: Bibi Netanyahu wants the US to pander to his paranoid fantasy that Iran is going to attack Israel. Unfortunately, the same fools that dragged us through two useless ten year wars think a third war would just about do the trick.

    Israel sold TOW and Hawk missiles to Tehran during Iran-Contra, and now WiO is complaining that some of those are pointed back at Israel. Go figure.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Leading from behind...

    An America that can do nothing...

    Let the hounds of hell run wild...

    Peace in our time...


    "My good friends, for the second time in our recent history, we have returned from Asia bringing peace with honour.
    I believe it is peace for our time...
    Go home and get a nice quiet sleep."

    ReplyDelete
  58. the Perpetual Lady of Lies says: Israel sold TOW and Hawk missiles to Tehran during Iran-Contra, and now WiO is complaining that some of those are pointed back at Israel. Go figure.


    once again you lack skills in understanding reality.

    It aint TOW and Hawk missiles from 20 years ago that are the issue.

    But you know that...

    You are just still trying to reclaim a place now that we all know you are full of shit.

    ReplyDelete
  59. GARETH PORTER: ... the 2006 Lebanon War debacle continues to haunt the thinking of IDF leaders. In that war, it became clear that the IDF had not been ready to handle Hezbollah rocket attacks adequately, and the prestige of the Israeli military suffered a serious blow.

    They'll trade a thousand terrorists for one Israeli grunt. Countries that are serious about waging war hold memorial services for those individuals in their forces who are imprisoned and treat them as if they were already dead.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Anonymous said...
    duece cant handle the chemo anymore so he is now willing to let the cancer take its course. He just wants to do his bucket list and “go sky diving and rocky mountain climbing”. Good for him, bad for future generations who’ll have to live with nuked missiles pointing at them from places like Venezuela and near offshore locations controlled by mullatic fanatics. Love of country means don’t touch my 401k and if you love your moolah love the mullah.



    well said

    ReplyDelete
  61. Iran has completed the development of a nuclear weapon and is only waiting for a sign from Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei to start assembling its first nuclear bomb, said Israeli Military Intelligence Chief Maj. Gen. Aviv Kochavi on Thursday, February 2. By the end of 2012 or early 2013 Iran may have a single nuclear bomb, he said, but by 2015 the figure would jump to four or five. Deputy Prime Minister Moshe Yaalon: None of Iran's nuclear installations are immune from attack.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Wasp said...
    GARETH PORTER: ... the 2006 Lebanon War debacle continues to haunt the thinking of IDF leaders. In that war, it became clear that the IDF had not been ready to handle Hezbollah rocket attacks adequately, and the prestige of the Israeli military suffered a serious blow.

    They'll trade a thousand terrorists for one Israeli grunt. Countries that are serious about waging war hold memorial services for those individuals in their forces who are imprisoned and treat them as if they were already dead.




    Jealous?

    ReplyDelete
  63. They'll trade a thousand terrorists for one Israeli grunt. Countries that are serious about waging war hold memorial services for those individuals in their forces who are imprisoned and treat them as if they were already dead.



    Jealous?

    nope. "it's" just trying to educate people on the seven deadly sins through example.

    ReplyDelete
  64. TEHRAN - Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said Friday that Iran would support any nation that wants to confront Israel. "I have no fear of saying that we will back and help any nation or group that wants to confront and fight against the Zionist regime (Israel)," he said.

    He also stated that the Islamic Republic would not yield to international pressure to abandon its nuclear course, threatening retaliation for sanctions aimed at Iran's oil exports.

    Related:
    'Iran successfully launches satellite into orbit'
    'UK's Clegg concerned over int'l conflict with Iran'
    Khamenei's defiant speech to mark the anniversary of the 1979 Islamic Revolution was the first direct response to tighter sanctions imposed by the West in recent weeks to force Tehran to abandon a nuclear program it says has purely peaceful ends.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Ms T aka Teresita aka Zena aka WASP: nope. "it's" just trying to educate people on the seven deadly sins through example.


    Living the sins?

    Is pretending to be a lesbian catholic with an active sexual partner part of that?

    ReplyDelete
  66. Now the Israel hating Ms T, Wasp, Teresita takes aim at Israel for trading terrorists for Gilad Shalit.



    "They'll trade a thousand terrorists for one Israeli grunt. Countries that are serious about waging war hold memorial services for those individuals in their forces who are imprisoned and treat them as if they were already dead."



    Sorry Israel is not "tuff" enough" for you....

    Maybe someday you or one of your loved ones will be held captive by some islamic group we can then give the government your advise then

    ReplyDelete
  67. That's a form of mental masturbation, WiO holding a conversation with himself, alternating as WiO and "anonymous", and a good way to fill up the thread with Zionist spam.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Unemployment rate falls to 8.3%; fifth straight monthly decline.

    Gets into the sevens by September, Obama will win.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Wasp said...
    That's a form of mental masturbation, WiO holding a conversation with himself, alternating as WiO and "anonymous", and a good way to fill up the thread with Zionist spam.


    wrongo ms t, aka wasp, aka zena, aka teresita,

    it wasnt me..

    but rat did post today under several names.

    not unlike you do..

    ReplyDelete
  70. No chemo, no hating Israel. I did say that I absolutely loath Bibi N., and the US politicians that put US interests second to any other country. Try and wrap your brain around this, if I can’t stand self-serving US politicians, that does nor mean I hate my own country.

    Get over it.

    ReplyDelete
  71. “way to fill up the thread with Zionist spam”

    Looks like “it’s” Wrath is showing. Sloth, “check”, Wrath, Pride, Lust, Envy” check! I wonder what kind of entity would espouse the 7 sins, via living example, then claim a moral high ground?
    Starts with “D”.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Deuce said...
    No chemo, no hating Israel. I did say that I absolutely loath Bibi N., and the US politicians that put US interests second to any other country. Try and wrap your brain around this, if I can’t stand self-serving US politicians, that does nor mean I hate my own country.

    Get over it.



    I dont think you hate America.

    I think you are confused.

    Bibi doesnt hold power of America. America holds power over Israel.

    Iran is already at war with the USA, you just dont want to admit it.

    Didnt know anything about chemo.

    ReplyDelete
  73. My 1st 24 posts on this thread mentioned Israel once, and Jerusalem ONCE.

    Hardly "zionist" spam..

    ReplyDelete
  74. Fri Feb 03, 08:54:00 AM EST is disgusting.

    ReplyDelete
  75. MS T is now posting as Anon...

    I guess Ms T, Zena, Teresita, WASP are not enough personalities for her..

    Anonymous said...
    “way to fill up the thread with Zionist spam”
    Looks like “it’s” Wrath is showing. Sloth, “check”, Wrath, Pride, Lust, Envy” check! I wonder what kind of entity would espouse the 7 sins, via living example, then claim a moral high ground?
    Starts with “D”.


    I wouldn't know about the 7 deadly sins...

    but I googled it....

    The 7 Deadly Sins, also known as the Capital Vices or Cardinal Sins, is a classification of objectionable vices that have been used since early Christian times to educate and instruct followers concerning fallen humanity's tendency to sin.


    Yep Christian stuff....

    And where does being a lesbian catholic fit in to that...

    ReplyDelete
  76. If I had 24 emails for Viagra, I'd call that Spam, even if they only mentioned penis "once".

    ReplyDelete
  77. Γαστριμαργία (gastrimargia) gluttony.

    not me, not ms t

    Πορνεία (porneia) prostitution, fornication.

    not me, certainly ms t...

    Φιλαργυρία (philargyria) avarice.
    Ὑπερηφανία (hyperēphania) hubris - in the Philokalia, this term is rendered as self-esteem.
    Λύπη (lypē) sadness - in the Philokalia, this term is rendered as envy, sadness at another's good fortune.

    not me, yep, this fits Ms T

    Ὀργή (orgē) wrath.

    I got wrath, but so does ms t

    Κενοδοξία (kenodoxia) boasting.

    Not I, but Ms t boasts and boasted about her cushy government job, how she defrauded the government out of benefits for her lesbian lover when it was illegal

    Ἀκηδία (akēdia) acedia - in the Philokalia, this term is rendered as dejection.

    not I... I accept the fact that there are those among us that reject me, I take it as a badge of honor. Now Ms T? He/she/it is dejected cause now that she/he/it has outed them selfs as a liar no one takes he/she/it seriously...

    ReplyDelete
  78. The Republicans will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

    They will alienate the 10% of their Party that want Small Government to the point they'll support the quirky Doctor.
    As Mr Romney advocates for an increase of 100,000 troops.

    They will alienate the 20% of their Party that will not vote for a Mormon.

    Although three of four Americans say they would support a presidential candidate who is an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, the Gallup Poll finds that 22% say they would not.

    That figure has not changed much since Gallup started measuring opinion on this subject in 1967.

    One difference comes by party: While 27% of Democrats say they would not support a Mormon for president, that figure is 20% for Republicans.


    The Jewish bloc votes at least 70% for Obama.
    The Black bloc assured 95% for Obama.

    Obama wins reelection.

    ReplyDelete
  79. The Republicans will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

    They will alienate the 10% of their Party that want Small Government to the point they'll support the quirky Doctor.
    As Mr Romney advocates for an increase of 100,000 troops.

    They will alienate the 20% of their Party that will not vote for a Mormon.

    Although three of four Americans say they would support a presidential candidate who is an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, the Gallup Poll finds that 22% say they would not.

    That figure has not changed much since Gallup started measuring opinion on this subject in 1967.

    One difference comes by party: While 27% of Democrats say they would not support a Mormon for president, that figure is 20% for Republicans.


    The Jewish bloc votes at least 70% for Obama.
    The Black bloc assured 95% for Obama.

    Obama wins reelection.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Wasp said...
    If I had 24 emails for Viagra, I'd call that Spam, even if they only mentioned penis "once".



    But are you now claiming to have a penis?????

    1st you were a lesbian woman, then a straight woman, now you are saying you have a dick? or just that you are one?

    ReplyDelete
  81. I am so confused....

    Ms T, aka Teresita, aka WASP, aka ZENA aka Anon...


    Is it a he, a she? or a transgendered neutered thing?

    IS he/she/it married?

    Is he/she/it actually work for the US government?

    Did he/she/it have cancer?

    the confusion just continues...

    He/she/it is so obsessed with quoting scripture and hating Israel....

    I think I have the correct Torah passage to descript the situation.

    From the Book of Schmaltz (Bavel edition, from the Aramaic)


    BOS 11.4 14.55

    " When one appears within your mist that is advocating the sexual abomination that you are so quickly to embrace, thy judgement is cemented in afterlife. 7 Evidently some people are confused and are trying to pervert the Laws of Moishe. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a Law other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a Law other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

    ReplyDelete
  82. For more than three years, liberals have blamed Obama's crappy economy on Bush. One day of decent news, and *POOF* Obama owns it!

    ReplyDelete
  83. Anonobob: Good for him, bad for future generations who’ll have to live with nuked missiles pointing at them from places like Venezuela and near offshore locations controlled by mullatic fanatics.

    If the SEALS can reach out and touch Osama bin Laden, they can get Hugo and the Mullahs.

    ReplyDelete
  84. If anybody is preaching to you a Law other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

    Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

    ReplyDelete
  85. I'm not posting as anything other than bob, T.


    As I've always understood the deadly sins I think the general consensus is that Pride is the Queen over all the others. Another way of saying it is that all the others have an element of pride in them.

    What's Pride but egotism?

    ReplyDelete
  86. Wasp said...
    If anybody is preaching to you a Law other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

    Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.




    glad taht shit doesnt apply to me...

    but it applies to you...

    are lesbian catholic pretenders still part of the body of christ?

    ReplyDelete
  87. The Travelers' Guide to Hell says that
    Pride is ruled by the celestial sign of the Sun.

    It is "the mother of all sins... the thin line between righteousness and self-righteousness."

    A difficult row to hoe, the line between righteousness and self-righteousness!

    ReplyDelete
  88. I'm not posting as anything other than bob, T.

    Desert Rat said Teresita posted as WiO, and Quirk said it didn't surprise him, even though she adamantly asserted she never did any such thing. So who gives a shit who posts as who?

    ReplyDelete
  89. Sounds like a midsummer's night's dream to me.

    To Attack Iran

    They always say Bibi makes the choice but I have read there are 12 or 14 folks that actually vote on the matter.

    What the truth is of this I don't know.

    ReplyDelete
  90. I never said Ms T posted as the Story of "o".

    I said that at one point, years ago, Ms T posted as me. Complete with sign-on and avatar.

    So, really, who cares who posts, rather the important thing is the content of the post.

    Whit checked the IP addresses, as I recall. It does not matter much.

    ReplyDelete
  91. There are over 300 target points in the Iranian's nuclear program.
    Many fewer in Israel.

    The Chinese may well consider an attack upon their oil supply an existential threat to their economy and, thus, their political regime's survival.

    Wonder what those Chinese would do, to secure their own survival.

    ReplyDelete
  92. heh heh, it's scientific now!

    "Study links low intelligence with right-wing beliefs

    ...

    Lead researcher Gordon Hodson told LiveScience that the results of the study indicate a vicious cycle, in which people with low intelligence are drawn to socially conservative ideologies. In turn, those ideologies can contribute to prejudices.

    “Socially conservative ideologies tend to offer structure and order,” he said, explaining why those with lower intelligence may gravitate toward the right. “Unfortunately, many of these features can contribute to prejudice.”

    The researchers found that people with lower intelligence also tended to have less contact with other races and groups, which, Dr. Hodson said, supports previous research that determined interacting with other groups is mentally challenging and cognitively draining.

    ..."

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/study-links-low-intelligence-with-right-wing-beliefs/article2325323/

    ReplyDelete
  93. A birther, global warming denier...

    ... we've got you pegged boobie


    :)

    ReplyDelete
  94. The Chinese may well consider an attack upon their oil supply an existential threat to their economy and, thus, their political regime's survival.

    Wonder what those Chinese would do, to secure their own survival.



    valid point, but Iran's oil supply might be taken off the market for a few months, but would not be destroyed.

    More likely the Chinese would or could land troops there to protect it for themselves. Just like they are doing in Nigeria now.

    ReplyDelete
  95. The Chinese, with upwards of 3,000 warheads, would trump the Israeli nuclear threat.

    There is no missile defense applicable to the Chinese ICBM threat emanating from Sichuan province. See Map

    The Chinese CAN launch and land a monkey, safely.

    There would be no applicable retaliatory strikes that the Chinese could not absorb, per their own Maoist doctrine.

    Here's MAO quote about nuclear weapons being paper tigers against China.

    He said this in 1950 to the Indian leader when he asked him if he was afraid that America would nuke China if China entered the Korean war.

    ``The atomic bomb is nothing to be afraid of. China has millions of people. It cannot be bombed out of existence. If someone else can drop an atomic bomb, I can too. The death of 10 or 20 million people is nothing to be afraid of...``


    While China could absorb whatever retaliation the Israeli could mount, from their three German submarines...

    Israel could not absorb even three tactical nuclear strikes launched from China.

    The US would stand by.
    Watching its hegemony fade away.

    ReplyDelete
  96. desert rat said...
    There are over 300 target points in the Iranian's nuclear program.
    Many fewer in Israel.



    China would be fool hardy to try to nuke Israel.

    More than likely China would set up a proxy to do their dirty work...

    Oh yeah, North korea, Iran, Syria, Pakistan?

    ReplyDelete
  97. dr: Israel could not absorb even three tactical nuclear strikes launched from China.

    The US would stand by.
    Watching its hegemony fade away.



    That is your wet dream....

    But aint going to happen.

    More variables exist that you do not acknowledge.

    But in your "final solution" wet dream, anything is possible.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Golfing must be bad for the brains.

    Borner, not birther, borner Ash.


    O how many times ....


    :)

    ReplyDelete
  99. The limited strikes the Israeli could launch against Iran would preclude the Iranian regime falling. Indeed, it would strengthen the regime. Radicalizing the population.

    The Chinese have limited naval capability to land a military force, but have an ample nuclear arsenal to eliminate the threat to their economic survival.

    That threat not coming from Iran, but those that attack it.

    The US would have to provide tacit approval of an armed occupation of Iran, by China, but after a nuclear strike, there would still be no Chinese military presence in the Middle East.

    ReplyDelete
  100. Whole thing is a nightmare, isn't it.

    ReplyDelete
  101. The idea that 6 million Europeon colonists could threaten the economic security of China, and the Chinese will just roll over...

    That is no dream, dry or otherwise.

    Here you are, "o" projecting your cultural values upon the Chinese.

    Foolish ignorance, exemplified.

    ReplyDelete
  102. Some “anon" poster said I was on chemo. He probably meant Wasp. Not important. I am not.

    My biggest health problem at this time is that I need another coffee and for some reason have been craving a Murray’s bagel with white fish and a cucumber.

    ReplyDelete
  103. The median estimate of Chinese losses in Korea, 500,000 KIA.

    ReplyDelete
  104. desert rat said...
    The idea that 6 million Europeon colonists could threaten the economic security of China, and the Chinese will just roll over...

    That is no dream, dry or otherwise.

    Here you are, "o" projecting your cultural values upon the Chinese.

    Foolish ignorance, exemplified.




    the fact that you call israel a "european colony" says it all Herr rat...



    like it or not...

    Israel is...

    dont like it?

    get used to it...

    Try to now invoke China as Israel's new enemy?

    Nonsense.

    ReplyDelete
  105. China is not the enemy of Israel, unless Israel becomes an existential threat to the survival of the regime, in China.

    Which Israel could do, if it attacked Iran.

    Just one of the consequences that is easily foreseeable, but unintended and those ignored by the war mongers.

    What would the Chinese do, to ensure their own survival?

    Why would the Chinese respect those that threatened the political stability in their country?

    Why else do they have those 3,000 nuclear weapons?

    ReplyDelete
  106. Bibi may finesse Mittens into a war in Iran, but the O'man ain't coming.

    Go get'em, O'man.

    ReplyDelete
  107. The Chinese would be good trading partners, for the Israeli, it Israel does not threaten the Chinese economy with military action against the Chinese energy infrastructure.

    Of which Iran is an integral part.

    ReplyDelete
  108. desert rat said...
    China is not the enemy of Israel, unless Israel becomes an existential threat to the survival of the regime, in China.

    Which Israel could do, if it attacked Iran.




    Pure nonsense.

    ReplyDelete
  109. If the Israeli want to attack Iran...

    Giddy up go!

    Alone.

    ReplyDelete
  110. Rufus II said...
    Bibi may finesse Mittens into a war in Iran, but the O'man ain't coming.

    Go get'em, O'man.


    Dont wet yourself when Obama attacks Iran

    He will do it to when re-election.

    Then you will be praising him...

    ReplyDelete
  111. Just think of the consequences that Israel can face...

    Alone.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Obama will be pissed if Bibi does something that doesnt HELp his re-election plans...

    ReplyDelete
  113. desert rat said...
    Just think of the consequences that Israel can face...

    Alone.



    I think Rat is getting excited about a newly invented force against Israel.

    To bad its all bullshit..

    China wants israeli weapons and technology far more than iranian oil...

    Sorry charlie, wrong again...

    ReplyDelete
  114. desert rat said...
    The limited strikes the Israeli could launch against Iran would preclude the Iranian regime falling. Indeed, it would strengthen the regime. Radicalizing the population.



    You speak like you actually think you have a clue!

    Clueless in AZ should be your handle

    ReplyDelete
  115. Now rat speaks for 1.4 billion chinese.

    He also speaks for 1.2 billion moslems

    and dont forget the 330 million Americans he speaks for...


    wow...

    ReplyDelete
  116. Rat also says I do not have a clue of Israel , Judaism or their history...

    He also speaks for Judaism.

    WOW...

    ReplyDelete
  117. I've never claimed to speak for anyone, let alone Judaism.

    I let Jews do that, for themselves.
    They tend to write prolifically.

    ReplyDelete
  118. But you, "o" speak for no one but yourself.

    The State of Israel calls Herod "Great", if you demur from that, tasty proof that you're standing alone.

    ReplyDelete
  119. " Radicalizing the population."

    Maybe we should help Iran with their nuclear ambitions, it will pacify the population.

    ReplyDelete
  120. That was the "Plan", tosh.2.

    Back in the day.

    In 1976 Chief of Staff Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld persuaded President Gerald Ford to approve offering Iran nuclear reprocessing facilities. Cheney and Rumsfeld stated that Iran needed a nuclear program to meet future energy requirements which is what Iranian officials are saying today.

    ////

    Ford's team endorsed Iranian plans to build a massive nuclear energy industry, but also worked hard to complete a multibillion-dollar deal that would have given Tehran control of large quantities of plutonium and enriched uranium -- the two pathways to a nuclear bomb.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3983-2005Mar26.html

    Eisenhower's Cold War America and the Shah's monarchical Iran then signed their first civil nuclear agreement in 1957. Over the next two decades, right up to the Islamic revolution, the U.S. provided Iran not only technical assistance and training but also its first experimental nuclear reactor, enriched uranium and plutonium with the fissile isotopes. The Shah was never required to furnish any guarantees, not even a verbal commitment, that Iran would not use this technology for the development of nuclear weapons. Even so, and not anticipating the Islamic revolution, the Ford administration approved in the mid-1970s the sale to Iran of up to eight nuclear reactors (with fuel) and then cleared the sale of lasers with known capability for uranium enrichment.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=%20AH20060129&articleId=1844

    ReplyDelete
  121. Regimes come and go

    The people, eternal.

    ReplyDelete



  122. Iran to emerge as the virtual lynchpin in the making, over the next decade or so, of what China and Russia have come to regard as an absolutely indispensable Asian Energy Security Grid, for breaking Western control of the world's energy supplies and securing the great industrial revolution of Asia.

    ReplyDelete



  123. President Gerald R. Ford signed a directive in 1976 offering Tehran the chance to buy and operate a U.S.-built reprocessing facility for extracting plutonium from nuclear reactor fuel. The deal was for a complete "nuclear fuel cycle" -- reactors powered by and regenerating fissile materials on a self-sustaining basis.

    ReplyDelete



  124. In 1975, as secretary of state, Kissinger signed and circulated National Security Decision Memorandum 292, titled "U.S.-Iran Nuclear Cooperation," which laid out the administration's negotiating strategy for the sale of nuclear energy equipment projected to bring U.S. corporations more than $6 billion in revenue. At the time, Iran was pumping as much as 6 million barrels of oil a day, compared with an average of about 4 million barrels daily today.

    The shah, who referred to oil as "noble fuel," said it was too valuable to waste on daily energy needs. The Ford strategy paper said the "introduction of nuclear power will both provide for the growing needs of Iran's economy and free remaining oil reserves for export or conversion to petrochemicals."


    Regimes change, but the basic needs of the country remain.

    ReplyDelete
  125. "That was the "Plan", tosh.2.

    Back in the day."

    Gee. what's changed since 1976?

    ReplyDelete
  126. Neither the energy needs nor the people of Iran.

    ReplyDelete
  127. "duece cant handle the chemo anymore so he is now willing to let the cancer take its course. He just wants to do his bucket list and “go sky diving and rocky mountain climbing”.

    It was an analogy, cancer being radical islams quest and distribution of nukes

    ReplyDelete
  128. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  129. The NPT has not changed, since 1976.

    Nor the signatories right to the full fuel cycle.

    ReplyDelete
  130. "Neither the energy needs nor the people of Iran."

    Oh, it's just for energy.

    Thanks for clearing that up.

    ReplyDelete
  131. One has to prove, to the Russians and Chinese, that the Iranians are in violation of the NPT.

    Which has not been done.
    Doubt that it can be.

    ReplyDelete
  132. Let's just assume that the regime has only peaceful intentions.

    ReplyDelete
  133. Force the US to choose 'tween China and Israel....

    Doubt that the US interests in Israel prevail against those of the Russell & Company political progeny.

    Commerce is king.

    ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  134. Assume whatever you want.

    The Russians and Chinese, they operate under a different set of assumptions.

    Pose the appearance of an existential threat to China, they'll spend 500,000 KIA to force a stalemate.
    They have before.

    How many foreigners would they sacrifice, to survive and thrive?

    ReplyDelete
  135. China nukes Israel, Obama stands with Walmart.

    Complicated world.

    ReplyDelete
  136. Walmart is the largest employer in the United States and in Mexico.

    It's all about jobs, you know.

    Especially for Liberals concerned with private profit and public subsidy.

    You know, commerce.

    ReplyDelete
  137. Deuce -
    U worry too much. Iran cannot project force beyond its borders (at least according to ur bartenders). Why don't u old men get ur dumb shot stories straight.

    ReplyDelete
  138. I want to be greeter on Wal-Mart on the Moon and get away from earthlings.

    ReplyDelete
  139. GM is again the top manufacturer of automobiles, in all the whirled, only because of its subsidy in China.

    GM’s two largest markets last year were China, where GM and its partners sold more than 2.5 million vehicles, a 8.3% increase from the prior year, and the U.S, where GM also sold 2.5 million, a 13% gain.

    Commerce.

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  140. The most powerful nation will stand aside for annihilation, to keep prices low.

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  141. GM ...

    Is that still ...

    ... Government Motors?

    ReplyDelete
  142. "I want to be greeter on Wal-Mart on the Moon and get away from earthlings."

    No need to go to the moon, Bob.

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  143. Which US cities should the US put at risk of sacrifice, so that some in Israel can feel less fearful of Iran?

    You would advocate a tit for tat military exchange with China, by the US, if they protected their interests in Iran, from Israeli aggression?

    Or a sanctions regime against China, when that was deemed an unacceptable solution with regards Iran.

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  144. Well, there is always Yellowpine.

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  145. .

    And the great circle jerk continues at the EB.

    What do you think Bob, time for another epic poem?

    .

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  146. Which US cities should the US put at risk of sacrifice?


    Phoenix, of course, going to be Phoenix, building the launching pads now.

    LA maybe. Vegas.

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  147. The unintended consequences only occur if the Israeli jump.

    They have the reins.

    Nothing happens if they ride steady, only if they spur the horse will it begin to buck.

    Who knows what happens, then.

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  148. Time for some horoscopes.

    Music by Melody.

    Golfing tips by Ash.

    Methods of upstream casting.

    Nap.

    ReplyDelete
  149. I get it now.

    Israelis attack Iran's nukes, NYC gets nuked by the Chinese.

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  150. The Chinese, boobie, can strike any city in the country. Seattle, New York, Chi-town.

    That is a capability they've had for years. They're going to the moon, you know.

    The Iranians, they can get a satellite up, but cannot get it down, intact. They cannot get a monkey into sub-orbital flight and land it safely.

    The Chinese can and have.

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  151. "Who knows what happens, then."

    UN issues condemnations, Muslim leaders publicly condemn Israel (while thanking them privately).

    Iran sputters with rage. US flags burn in the streets of Tehran

    That's about it. Same old shit.


    Iran is not a sleeping giant.

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  152. Only if the US attacks China, in retaliation for China protecting itself from Israeli aggression against its energy infrastructure and economy and political stability.

    No one dies, if Israel does nothing.

    Not even Israelis.

    But if Israel jumps, who knows.

    Escalating retaliations.
    Used to be a major fear, amongst those in charge of US security.

    Why we should discount that threat now?

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  153. Americans won't care, as long as there is no threat to legal abortion.

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  154. If that is that happens, tosh.2, then the Iranians will not have been deterred.

    Indeed they will become more motivated to obtain the forbidden weapon systems from outside sources.

    From the same place they bought the missiles.

    The Chinese could even supply them, if China did not want to be up front about their involvement.

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  155. .

    Good ideas Bobbo, but I'll leave it to you, Melody, and Ash to keep things going until I get back. I think I'll retire to Blackhawk Island for a while to see if the muse visits.

    I'll leave this miasma of comic book heroes and ultimate RISK players to you while I compose. I see a new friend has joined their circle.

    Heck, maybe their medication will have kicked in by the time I get back.

    .

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  156. Rat, your argument is essentially:

    There is nothing we can do but nothing".

    ReplyDelete
  157. The Mullahs bring the world to its knees without firing a single shot.

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  158. "The most powerful nation will stand aside for annihilation, to keep prices low."

    aint too far from the truth these days.

    ReplyDelete
  159. The muslims of Iran haven't brought anyone to their knees - they are simply developing nuclear power.

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  160. No, tosh.2, my position now, as it has been:

    Sanctions and Sabotage are Sufficient



    All that has to be accomplished with regards Iran is regime change.

    Back to the future, 1976 redux.

    There is no need for military action. In fact military action will strengthen the current regime, in Iran.

    Just because most all of the tools in our box are hammers, does not mean that all the challenges are nails.

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  161. "The muslims of Iran haven't brought anyone to their knees..."

    Except desert Rat...

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  162. "Sanctions and Sabotage are Sufficient"

    A few bunker-busters in the right place is very effective sabotage.

    ReplyDelete
  163. It seems the Israelis are the ones most quaking in their boots.

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  164. "All that has to be accomplished with regards Iran is regime change."

    That's worked so well lately.

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  165. "It seems the Israelis are the ones most quaking in their boots."


    I suspect were you in their boots, amigo, you'd be a little concerned.

    ReplyDelete
  166. "Just because most all of the tools in our box are hammers, does not mean that all the challenges are nails."

    Hammers work well on walnuts.

    ReplyDelete
  167. The Simple Fact:

    Iran Will have Nukes.


    No use starting a war over something that is inevitable.

    ReplyDelete
  168. MAD works for one simple reason,

    The Leaders, and Elites die along with everyone else.

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  169. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  170. Rufus II said...
    The Simple Fact:

    Iran Will have Nukes.


    No use starting a war over something that is inevitable.



    Dumber words have never been spoken.

    Now that is being a coward.

    No sense fighting a war BEFORE they have really really lethal weapons.

    What a dumbshit

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  171. Regime change, it has worked in Turkey, Lebanon, Libya, Yemen, Egypt, Tunisia, Iraq and Afghanistan it is underway in Syria, Pakistan and Bahrain.

    With unrest growing in the Shiite areas of Saudi Arabia.

    This according to Dubai Police Chief Dahi Khalfan Tamim is the result of US policy success.

    Stay the Course!

    ReplyDelete
  172. desert rat said...
    But you, "o" speak for no one but yourself.

    The State of Israel calls Herod "Great", if you demur from that, tasty proof that you're standing alone.



    you called him the "historically "Great" king Herod.

    That shows you know nothing.

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  173. Ash said...
    It seems the Israelis are the ones most quaking in their boots.



    Tell you what ash, you kill off 80% of your population and then be threatened with genocide and see how you react.

    ReplyDelete
  174. desert rat said...
    Only if the US attacks China, in retaliation for China protecting itself from Israeli aggression against its energy infrastructure and economy and political stability.

    No one dies, if Israel does nothing.

    Not even Israelis.




    nonsense,

    instead of 100,000 rockets confronting israel, israel have 500,000 rockets and a nuclear iran.


    rat, rufus, deuce, ms T?

    appeasing cowards.

    ReplyDelete
  175. I fought for MY country, Wio. Have you picked up the rifle for yours?

    ReplyDelete
  176. What is "Occupation" wrote that only the Rat would describe Herod as great.

    He lied when he said it, he lies when he repeats the lie.

    The State of Israel calls Herod the Great.

    As does the Naked Archeologist.

    What is "Occupation" is a coward and liar. A pussy that by any other name, still smells like rotting gefilte fish.

    ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  177. What is "Occupation" said...
    Ash said...
    It seems the Israelis are the ones most quaking in their boots.



    Tell you what ash, you kill off 80% of your population and then be threatened with genocide and see how you react.

    ---

    Don't forget getting terminated or kicked out of every country in the ME, and being "unwelcome" throughout much of Europe for many years since WWII.

    Christians now receive almost equal lack of sympathy for being terminated or kicked out throughout the ME which US policy has "liberated."

    ReplyDelete
  178. Every day is groundhog day at the EB in terms of ignoring those FACTS.

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  179. Those may be facts, Doug; but, attacking Iran isn't going to make any of that go away.

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  180. Well, doug, we must recall what Daniel Pipes wrote, regarding the religion of the Assad regime, in Syria.

    by far the greatest affinity is with Christianity. 'Alawi religious ceremonies involve bread and wine; indeed, wine drinking has a sacred role in 'Alawism, for it represents God. The religion holds 'Ali, the fourth caliph, to be the (Jesus-like) incarnation of divinity. It has a holy trinity, consisting of Muhammad, 'Ali, and Salman al-Farisi, a freed slave of Muhammad's. 'Alawis celebrate many Christian festivals, including Christmas, New Year's, Epiphany, Easter, Pentecost, and Palm Sunday. They honor many Christian saints: St. Catherine, St. Barbara, St. George, St. John the Baptist, St. John Chrysostom, and St. Mary Magdalene. The Arabic equivalents of such Christian personal names as Gabriel, John, Matthew, Catherine, and Helen, are in common use. And 'Alawis tend to show more friendliness to Christians than to Muslims.

    Yet the Israeli and US want regime change, in Syria, bowing to the cause of the Muslim Brotherhood.

    Let's not forget just who is spinning the bull shit with regards religion and misinformation.

    Assad's Syria, the most anti-Islamic regime in Arabia, next to Israel, of course.

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  181. And, I don't appreciate being called a pussy by punk kids that have never fired a shot, or had a shot fired at them, in anger.

    ReplyDelete
  182. Nobody cares what you appreciate or if u fired a rifle or not.

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  183. Couldn't sign that one, could you, you little batshit-crazy twerp?

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  184. Feeling froggy old man?

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  185. What are you saying Doug? Are you saying we should go to war to make them more 'liberal' over there?

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  186. Actually POTUS stated that the U.S. leaves all options on the table to prevent a nuclear armed Iran.

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  187. Interesting that our resident, levant-loving, looney-tunes wants American kids to die in Israel's War in Iran, while he comfortably sells candy in Ohio.


    Forgive me if I'm not so enthused.

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  188. All options are on the table but the POTUS would make a big error if he chose the attack/war option.

    ReplyDelete
  189. I was born froggy, as evidenced by my 214.


    Some just shoot off their mouths, and try to get others to fight their wars.

    ReplyDelete
  190. If Israel attacks Iran and Iran attacks the U.S.
    Well, that's Iran declaring war on the U.S.

    And I don't give a shit what some old man in MS has to say.

    ReplyDelete
  191. Rufus II said...
    Interesting that our resident, levant-loving, looney-tunes wants American kids to die in Israel's War in Iran, while he comfortably sells candy in Ohio.



    Fuck you.

    Iran has been murdering OUR BOYS for 30 years. If you are too pussy whipped to see it that aint my issue.

    And just because you are comfortable in MS fucking goats for a living again, aint my issue.

    I actually give a shit about American lives.

    You on the otherhand could care less if we LOSE a city to an Iranian nuke.

    fucking inbred nitwit.

    ReplyDelete
  192. It ain't going to work. Obammie's already communicated to the Mullahs that he wants nothing to do with the Israeli nonsense.

    ReplyDelete
  193. Rufus II said...
    And, I don't appreciate being called a pussy by punk kids that have never fired a shot, or had a shot fired at them, in anger.


    I'll call you a pussy appeasing coward.

    ReplyDelete
  194. The fix is in on this one, and Bibi's on his own.

    ReplyDelete