The arguments made by the Democrats is that the "People" just want a health care bill. That argument simply stated is that the ends justify the means. Process deemed to be unimportant, means that the Constitution is deemed unimportant. That is the argument being made by the Democrats?
Break the Constitution on something as basic as how laws are to be made and you have law by fiat. It is counter-revolution. It is law without process. It is the destruction of individual rights to property and freedom. It is the taking from one to the benefit of another.
It opens hell. It can lead to who knows where. If Congress can skirt the Constitution on this bill and deemed it passed, ask yourself these questions:
- Can Congress deem an extension of their terms?
- If Congress can deem passed a bill about your health care, can they deem passed a bill increasing your taxes, taking your property or putting you in jail?
- Can Congress deem passed a bill giving citizenship to all illegal immigrants?
- Can Congress deem a Presidential Signature?
- Can they deem a Supreme Court Approval of a law that on the surface is unconstitutional or that a Court decision is illegal?
The answer to all these question is yes.
Let the Democrats think about this. Congress can break the Constitution, but when the do, they break the covenant between the governed and those chosen to lead, they open a door to anarchy.
Congress breaking that trust will break the obligations of citizens to that trust. Congress breaking that trust are breaking their oath and forfeiting their legitimacy to office. They are pretenders. They are dangerous to your freedom.
Citizens will have the right and duty to remove them, take them out, and take them out we will.
We will deem them to have passed.
Paul Tarver of MeridianTeaParty.com calls this 'slimy'.ReplyDelete
"This is a last gasp of that old monarchy that just did as they pleased," Tarver said. "And hopefully, enough people have their eyes on the game that they won't be able to get away with this."
The president is pushing Congress to pass the bill before the Easter break.
Health Care Bill
On the rare occasion I watch teevee news. Early yesterday evening was just such an occasion and I watched Blitzer and Co. for about twenty minutes. "Deem and pass" was the headliner and their Congressional correspondent indicated that Republicans employed the unsavory tactic any number of times. (Like, 35 from 05-06.) And this has been repeated any number of times since on the net, even noting that "deem and pass" legislation has stood up in court.ReplyDelete
This isn't, of course, going to make it go down any easier for opponents. Pointing it out is rather fuel for proponents.
By this time next week we'll have seen huge headlines about health care. These headlines will either read "Democrats do it!", followed by various Republicans and their apologists complaining that what the Dems did wasn't nice, or "Democrats -- losers again", followed by Republicans going bwahahaha.
And it's up to a handful of Democrats to decide which headlines we get. They're out of their minds if they don't choose door #1.
Rush said Slaughter took the Pubs to court.ReplyDelete
The question is, why wasn't the Dem/MSM all over the Pubs?
Must have been used on less controversial issues, or in some less controversial way.
I'd guess the entire country was not riled up against it as it is now against Obamacare.
Intrade fell 35 points, but now has bounced back 31 to 66.ReplyDelete
Any explanations, Rufus?
I'd guess the entire country was not riled up against it as it is now against Obamacare.ReplyDelete
Wed Mar 17, 06:50:00 AM EDT
Conyer's wife's got a taxpayer-funded lawyer to represent her.ReplyDelete
Poor John only makes 180 k plus...
Very cool morning music (boy does it bring back memories of two winters ago) and some leggy gals to go with it:ReplyDelete
I'm searching for cute squirrel videos.
Bennet's guy says 25 Dems joined the Pubs when they used reconciliation to get line item veto.ReplyDelete
Signed by Clinton.
I'm sorry, they are just not cute. It looks like a damn rat.ReplyDelete
‘Kill the Senate Bill,’ Said Author of Rule to Quietly Pass ItReplyDelete
When’s the last time we heard the name of House Rules Committee Chair Louise Slaughter around the Corner anyhow? Oh, that’s right, it was when she was calling for the House to kill the Senate bill at CNN.
Here’s what Slaughter said in an op-ed:...
I don't know much about InTrade other than that back during the general campaign season it was a good tracker.ReplyDelete
Personally I figure we're pretty damned close to actually passing the legislation because lefty Balloon Juice opened its first overnight thread in quite some time last night.
Everyone has their favorite indicators.
...but I wouldn't kill them, eitherReplyDelete
Have wonderful day. I hope you have sunshine today, Trish.
Squirrels, dear friend, are as Disney as God's creatures get.ReplyDelete
There's a wonderful little autobiographical book, The Coalwood Way, by Homer Hickam (author of October Sky and rocket scientist extraordinaire) with a sweet little squirrel subplot. His mother takes in a squirrel that attacks every other member of the household when she's not around. Mother's squirrel goes mysteriously missing and there is much concern, even among the traumatized. I won't spoil it for you, except to say that, possibly unlike dear host, no one took the squirrel out secretly in the middle of the night and shot it. Or ate it, rufus-like.
Could parachute-wearing bears sniff out Osama bin Laden?
That's one suggestion the Pentagon has received from someone who noted, quite correctly, that a bear's sense of smell is much more powerful than a bloodhound's.
"Overnight, Parachute some bears into areas [bin Laden] might be," the innovator wrote. "Attempt to train bears to take off parachutes after landing, or use parachutes that self-destruct after landing."
The bears-in-the-air idea, and scores of others, came from people who clicked on the "contact us" button on the Defense Department's Web site, which allows the general public to ask questions or make suggestions.
Not that the Pentagon needs any particular help in the idea department. Not long ago, for example, the agency spent $2 million to find out whether honey bees could be relied upon to sniff out roadside bombs.
Re: the underlying discussion on public health care.ReplyDelete
I just spoke to one of my employees in Costa Rica. Costa Rica has a fine public healthcare system paid for by taxing employers, administered by the government. It is fine by Latin American standards.
My employee's aunt has an open sore and irritation ion her breast, goes to the public hospital, waits five hours, sees a doctor and the doctor schedules the distraught woman for an MRI, in September.
There are also some fine private hospitals in Costa Rica, outside the government system and are pay for service.
At my urging, my employee is taking her aunt for a Monday morning examination with an MRI in the afternoon.
They have to "Vote" to "Deem" it passed, right?ReplyDelete
I don't know, Doug. I don't look at it hardly ever.ReplyDelete
I guess everybody's like me - Clueless.ReplyDelete
All very good points. And in addition, what if the republicans get in office and decide to "deem" everything back to normal, get rid of all the benifits that the Obama administration put in effect? There would be riots in the streets. The Democrats/Socialists would throw an absolute fit and say it was unconstitutional because no one voted on it.ReplyDelete
And if you say it fast, it sounds like Demon pass....just what it is.
Interesting bio Loriann, welcome!ReplyDelete
So, as trish tells us, the Republicans raped the Constitution 35 times with this "Deem and Pass" and not one word at the Elephant Bar that the Republic was in danger, that the Congress had shredded the Constitution.ReplyDelete
No, all was good, then.
The boys and girls in DC, fellas, they are one and the same. The real differences 'tween the Democrats and Republicans, none at all.
Yah, they all be a bit disingenuous, Rat.ReplyDelete
The fact is, I wouln't bet a plugged nickle on any of their numbers.
Ain't Democracy Grand? :)
Better'n "General Hospital, or "Days of our Lives," by far.
There is an island in the Pacific where descendents of British seamen mutineers developed a taste for young girls, related and not.ReplyDelete
That went onfor some time. As the years went by, it became worse. When it came to public attention, the miscreants were prosecuted and punished.
The same will occur to the molesters of the constitution.
As long as they do "Yays," and "Nays" on the "Deeming" Bill it's perfectly legal, and Constitutional.ReplyDelete
It's kind of the difference between Tomayto, and tomahto.
RBOB up over $2.31. That translates out to $3.01 at the pump in a couple of weeks (if that level holds.)ReplyDelete
At what level does it push us back into double-dip? Inquiring minds want to know.
From last weeks EIA Report:ReplyDelete
Total products supplied over the last four-week period has averaged 19.4
million barrels per day, up by 3.8 percent compared to the similar period last
year. Over the last four weeks, motor gasoline demand has averaged 8.9 million
barrels per day,
Also, distillate demand at 3.7 mbpd is something to watch.
An increase in these metrics and we're probably off to the races.
"So, as trish tells us, the Republicans raped the Constitution 35 times with this "Deem and Pass" and not one word at the Elephant Bar that the Republic was in danger, that the Congress had shredded the Constitution."ReplyDelete
Dear host is tribal.
The Bar a rather paradoxical creation.ReplyDelete
No "Echo Chamber," here.ReplyDelete
We own 7.7 Billion shares of Citi.ReplyDelete
Our "break-even" is $3.50/share.
Citi is selling for $4.10/share.
We're up about $4.6 Billion.
Obama, and the Congress might suck at "governing;" but, as "investors," they're Tops.
Dennis Kucenich to vote yes on healthcare.
All it took was a little plane-ride.
Oops, Demand growth in petroleum products stalled out. 19.3 bpd.ReplyDelete
So evidently "Deem and Pass" has been used by the GOP before and deemed legal by lower courts but not by the Supremes (otherwise we would have heard about it before).ReplyDelete
However, if HC passes in its current form it's highly likely to be challenged on constitutional grounds and eventually be reviewed by the SC. The individual mandate will be challenged for sure. And the unfunded mandate which drops millions of new people on state medicaid roles will likely be challenged by a coalition of states AGs. I'd assume the process issues will be included in one or more of these lawsuits.
The Dems are also struggling with the costs associated with the House bill. To use reconciliation, they have to come up with a few billion in cost saves over the next five years.
Wouldn't be as big a problem if they could have gotton the bill through using the normal process since the CBO projected big savings under the Senate bill. However, even under deem and pass, the savings under the Senate bill now become the ceiling or starting point from which the House reconciliation bill has to start from in order to measure their required savings.
Unfortunately, most of changes in the House increase costs.
It should be an interesting week.
I used to get depressed for a week or more when my teams got booted in the playoffs. No more. Life is too short.
Can't get too excited about HC right now. We probably won't know what is going to fly with this stuff for a year or more.
It'll cost us some money (although, not as much as many fear.)ReplyDelete
On the other hand, we're pulling most of our troops out of Iraq.
On the other hand, we're putting more troops into Afghanistan.
On the other hand, they won't be there long.
"It'll cost us some money (although, not as much as many fear.)"ReplyDelete
China & Everyone?
Pakiwonderland and India
Russia and Ossetia?
Arabs in general?
Arabs in Europe?
Bio Terror Attacks?
Bankruptcy of Munis & States pension funds?
WHITE Moslem (From within enemies for Allah)?
oh and lest we forget...
Jews building a block of flats....
When I say that, Q, I'm taking into consideration the amount we're already spending to treat these people in the "emergency" room after they get "really" sick.ReplyDelete
Illusions on Healthcare CostsReplyDelete
"How often, for example, have you heard the emergency-room argument? The uninsured, it's said, use emergency rooms for primary care. That's expensive and ineffective. Once they're insured, they'll have regular doctors. Care will improve; costs will decline. Everyone wins. Great argument. Unfortunately, it's untrue.
A study by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation found that the insured accounted for 83 percent of emergency-room visits, reflecting their share of the population. After Massachusetts adopted universal insurance, emergency-room use remained higher than the national average, an Urban Institute study found. More than two-fifths of visits represented non-emergencies. Of those, a majority of adult respondents to a survey said it was "more convenient" to go to the emergency room or they couldn't "get [a doctor's] appointment as soon as needed." If universal coverage makes appointments harder to get, emergency-room use may increase.
You probably think that insuring the uninsured will dramatically improve the nation's health. The uninsured don't get care or don't get it soon enough. With insurance, they won't be shortchanged; they'll be healthier. Simple.
Think again. I've written before that expanding health insurance would result, at best, in modest health gains. Studies of insurance's effects on health are hard to perform. Some find benefits; others don't. Medicare's introduction in 1966 produced no reduction in mortality; some studies of extensions of Medicaid for children didn't find gains. In the Atlantic recently, economics writer Megan McArdle examined the literature and emerged skeptical. Claims that the uninsured suffer tens of thousands of premature deaths are "open to question." Conceivably, the "lack of health insurance has no more impact on your health than lack of flood insurance," she writes."
With regard to your meme on how great Mass. H/C is, the state is currently dueling it out with NY to see which state's system is most expensive in the US. Regarding quality of care, if you can believe government statistics, it is rated just above the median. States like Minnesota, Wisconsin, North and South Dakota, even Michigan are rated higher.
But this is all small potatoes. What I was smiling at was the notion that costs would somehow come in less than they are now being predicted at. That ignores history and the nature of politicians.
The Dems had a problem with the Doc-Fix ($120 billion/year currently). So what did they do? They ignored it as if it wasn't there. Obama had to appease the unions so he moved the effective date on the Luxary Policy tax out to 2018 (when Obama and most of the current characters are dead or gone). Does anyone expect a future congress to allow a trillion dollar tax that they never voted on to be implemented. I could go on but you get the picture.
Hell, I would imagine that the CBO has already added in some "cost savings" for the emergancy room issue you mentioned.
Again, I say
"Washington -- The Detroit Three automakers on Wednesday urged Congress to take action to stop efforts by Japan and South Korea to shore up their currencies.ReplyDelete
"The automakers prodded Congress to "send a clear message to the governments of Japan and Korea: Do not intervene in currency markets."
"The group also sent a letter to the Japanese ambassador to the United States, Ichiro Fujisaki.
"American auto companies will consider intervention in foreign exchange rate markets by the Japanese government that weakens the yen as unfair competition directed at the American automotive market and American workers as the industry begins to recover from the economic recession," they wrote. "We will encourage our government to take strong and equivalent action in response to prevent harm to American jobs."
"An official at the Japanese embassy who handles auto issues didn't immediately return a request seeking comment.
"Korea and Japan remain the two most closed automotive markets, according to the Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development -- which ranks the pair 29th and 30th of 30 total countries. Import penetration in both countries' auto market is less than 4.5 percent. They argue it's primarily because of non-tariff barriers like currency valuations.
Here's another article on RomneyCare that was in the Wall Street Journal today.
Issues With RomneyCare
If I'm not wrong, the Prescription Drug Benefit is coming in less than expected.ReplyDelete
Leaving that aside, Q, what I meant was "total" cost to society.
Statistics are funny things. One of the first questions I would ask is How many "Dollars" are being billed in emergency rooms in Mass vs how many visits? There could be a Big difference.
BTW, you kind of made my point. Mass is Not any higher than NY.
Prescription drugs is irrelevant to the discussion. There Congress was spending money, money we didn't have, but still, spending money. That's something they do very well.ReplyDelete
Cutting costs. Now we're talking an entirely different thing as I think I pointed out above.
With regard to "making your point", I could have been wrong in my first post. If you read the second one on Romneycare you'll see they say it is the most expensive in the US. Beyond that point, what does it say that the finances of the entire US are now starting to resemble those of NY?
"Total Cost to Society"? Let me know how I get to that websight.
Nah, you were right the first time.ReplyDelete
It'll be alright, Q. It'll be expensive; but it'll be "worth it."
From what I can tell about the HC legislation is it pretty well only puts folks on insurance and does virtually nothing to address the runaway costs - that could prove to be very problematic in the long run.ReplyDelete
Rufus is totally full of shit in almost every comment.ReplyDelete
Yes, the Pubs have used RECONCILIATION many times.
Here, the Dems are mixing reconciliation with "Deeming" to pretend to pass 2 bills with one vote.
Constitution specifically prohibits that.
...then comes Rufus's bs about money.
WHAT ABOUT THE TEN TRILLION THAT WE HAVE NO IDEA WHERE OR TO WHO IT WENT TO RUFUS?
Do we get all that back, Mr. Socialist Running Dog?
Insurance companies will be put out of business by prexisting conditions and cost control Ash, then the Dems and Rufus get what they want:ReplyDelete
ie Socialised medicine.
We are all welfare recipients now.
Other Rufus bs:ReplyDelete
The emergency room savings:
Under Romneycare, MORE people are using ERs for non-emergency medicine.
Convenience, paid for by somebody else and their offspring.
TEN TRILLION? I have no idea what you're talking about.ReplyDelete
Okay, we're all gonna go broke.
I do not agree wth the proposed way of passing the Health Care Reform Bill by the Democrats as being suggested, yet if it was okay for the Republicans, why not the Democrats?ReplyDelete
The problem with the Health Care Reform Bill who will benefit from this? They claim 30 million will be eligible to get insurance and they will be reimbursed somewhat to those middle class that can't afford the extra $10 to $15 thousand a year and still the money will go to more insurance companies to cover the healthy. and if you have a pre-existing condition, you can get covered, yet you may not have a job, so the government still pays for the Medicaid or Medicare many poor are on and used as an excuse for high medical costs.
So, what is the gain to the people but adding more clients to the insurance companies?
"...Mr. Socialist Running Dog?"ReplyDelete
That's almost as bad as calling a guy a "pineapple doodoo head."
He cain't hep himself; he fell off his skateboard when he was young (he didn't land on his tail.)ReplyDelete
The reason we call him pineapple-head has nothin to do with him livin in Havaee. ;)
On Tuesday's Mark Levin Show: Mark announces that the Landmark Legal Foundation and he are prepared to fight this health care bill if it is passed via the Slaughter rule. They will challenge the constitutionality of the bill because you cannot have a law that is not voted on by Congress - as explicitly said in the Constitution. No previous Congress has ever said that it's passed a bill when it hasn't. The reason the politicians are lying and scheming as they try to get Obamacare passed, is because they realize the American people are against it on higher levels than ever before. Mark also discusses Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky's comments on healthcare and says she is a prime example of a politician that is out of touch with what is going on.ReplyDelete
So, What Is, are you going to blog a little of the conference for us this weekend? Do an Our Man At AIPAC kind of thing?ReplyDelete
It's your opportunity to drum up interest amongst a bunch of cranky SOBs. Were it me, I wouldn't let it go to waste.
MARK LEVIN 1st TO CALL OUT UNCONSTITUTIONAL SLAUGHTER RULEReplyDelete
Listen to Mark from Thursday March 11, 2010:
Meet the New "Kingmaker." Moqtada Al Sadr?!?ReplyDelete
One of the many assholes who got himself on the Do Not Kill list.ReplyDelete
COIN: It's A Beautiful Thing.ReplyDelete
ARTICLE: Kandahar slides into lawlessness as Taliban attacks force government to retreat, By Keith B. Richburg, New York Times, March 14, 2010
Kandahar heats up as the American surge nears. You get the sense of a serious set-piece in the works.
The special relevance to central rule attempting to extend itself from Kabul?
In Kandahar city, residents say, real power rests with Ahmed Wali Karzai, head of the council and the younger brother of Afghan President Hamid Karzai. Ahmed Karzai has been accused of vote rigging and involvement in the drug trade, allegations he has consistently denied.
Q: How do you know Hamid Karzai is one of the Bad Guys?ReplyDelete
A: He's still alive.
Some people are just too important to kill. Sadr made the list because of his dad. Seriously bad mojo killing the son.ReplyDelete
Karzai's dirty even by South Asia standards, and knee-deep through his clan network in the drug trade.
The Taliban has NOTHING on Karzai when it comes to that business.
He served his purposes very well in the beginning. He was the Indispensable Man.
Can't get rid of him. You can only work around him.
"then the Dems and Rufus get what they want:
ie Socialised medicine."
If only Americans were so lucky!
"Can't get rid of him. You can only work around him."
ahhh, the joys of the occupier. An it is good being the occupier because....????
An it is good being the occupier because....????ReplyDelete
Wed Mar 17, 09:28:00 PM EDT
Polo shirts and coffee mugs.
And as a technical but still significant point: We're no longer occupiers.ReplyDelete
Well, from a recovering "yellow dog Republican," I still say if you say it fast enough it describes the whole Obama administration.....Demon pass....health care is what woke me up and I will never vote according to the letter behind the name again.ReplyDelete
And ty Deuce....I'm new to blogging...as of January being the first time I started my first ever blog....I've lost family to politics. I'm not one to do anything part way. My country is at stake. Guess it's the Texas in me.
And a warm welcome to Chas!ReplyDelete