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Monday, June 27, 2011

TSA SCUM - Update 4

95 Year old cancer-stricken Grandmother, in a wheelchair, patted down by the TSA VOPOS and then forced to remove her diaper.

The TSA released a statement Sunday defending its agents' actions at the Northwest Florida Regional Airport and answered in true Orwellian fashion:

"While every person and item must be screened before entering the secure boarding area, TSA works with passengers to resolve security alarms in a respectful and sensitive manner," the federal agency said. "We have reviewed the circumstances involving this screening and determined that our officers acted professionally and according to proper procedure."


  1. Put someone in a government uniform, some loser who could not get a job somewhere else, some brainless diversity addled fucktard just following orders and you get this complete outrage. Thank you George Bush.

  2. The issue dominating the special session of the Legislature boils down to this: Should agents of the government, under the guise of national security, have widespread authority to deprive people of their liberty and dignity by subjecting them to abusive and humiliating screening?


    Lawmakers are considering two separate pieces of legislation, of course. One would create criminal penalties for an overzealous TSA airport screener who subjects a traveler to a humiliating pat-down.


    Supporters of the "anti-groping" bill invoke the Fourth Amendment prohibition against unreasonable searches, arguing that lawmakers must halt the "tyranny" practiced by the TSA. Their descriptions of real-life airport searches are an Orwellian nightmare, with sexual overtones.

    Thriving in Legislature

  3. Deuce, move to Idaho County, Idaho, that's the place for you.

    You wouldn't like however their attitude bout the elk and wolves.

    But the fishing is good if you know what you are doing and the women are fine if you stay true.

    Otherwise it's BANG and what dad and the other lawyers used to an "Idaho County Divorce"



  4. used to call...


  5. boob, he could not even find a link to support his prattle

    He could argue the facts, argue the law, when neither works he attacks me.

    Like a spoiled, petulant lawyer.

  6. Stay out of the airports and off the planes.

    Boycotts can work.

  7. One of New Zealand's top surgeons has operated on an ailing emperor penguin found on a beach near Wellington, some 3,000 kilometres from its Antarctic home.


    The emperor penguin is the largest species of the distinctive waddling creature and can grow up to 1.15 metres tall.

    The reason for Happy Feet's appearance in New Zealand remains a mystery, although experts say emperor penguins take to the open sea during the Antarctic summer and this one may have simply wandered further than most.

    Lost Penguin

  8. We are not even talking about the same goddamned thing, rat.

    You don't even understand what 'Jesus' wrote upon the ground.

    It's dust in the wind for you, pal.

    But The Lord God slowly brings up the laggards.

    walt whitman


  9. I know exactly what I'm talking about. The discussion, boob, centered upon the US being a "Christian Nation".

    I asked gag what type of Christianity, that of the Galilee or Constantinople.

    He asked for a clarification, which I supplied.

    There is, according to you, no single definition of Christianity, never has been. As folks were fighting about, since before Jesus was even considered for the position of Christ, in the whirled according to boob.

    So if there is no consensus as to what Christianity is, how could the US possibly be a "Christian Nation"?

    The links and snippets I posted all are to that point. There is no single "Christian" standard, as you say.

    The Christianity of the Individual or Christianity of the State?

    There is a big difference between the Christianity of Galilee and Constantinople.

    They are not one and the same.
    As you agreed.

    You are chuck full of petulance.

  10. In catholic life they have the distinction between the irremediably ignorant and the just plane ignorant.

    rat you fall into the first category.


  11. I am talking about myth meaning and metaphor and you are blowing smoke out your stupid ass about some historical remembrance.


  12. I had the most marvelous experience last night --it came to me in dream and I know now that the Book of Revelation by the seer from Patmos was not written by Jesus but some other dude and I, an older Protestant, had though the entire bible was written by Jesus.

    I think the instigator of this dream was a seer from shithole arizona a man with a PhD in desert scat.


  13. The discussion, boobie, was not about myth, but the impact of religion on politics.

    If you had a brain, you'd be dangerous.

  14. Rat, I am away from the computer alot these days, so forgive me for my delayed responses.

    "Saul/Paul of Constantinople told the converts that Christ did not require them to follow the Torah. That they did not need to circumcise, nor eat kosher.

    Jesus of Galilee kept the Torah sacred.

    Major difference.

    Followers of Jesus, of Galilee, had to be Jewish.

    Not so for those converted by Saul/Paul.

    Saul being an agent of the Romans, Jesus being a revolutionary against them."

    Your comments about Jesus and Paul
    are absurd.

    Paul and Jesus were in lockstep with their teaching. There is no difference. Paul, but the way, was from Tarsus, not Constaninpole.

    Read Matthew 28 16-20, and then tell me again you had to be Jewish to follow Jesus.

    Paul was not an agent for the Romans. Where did you get that?

    He was also not against the Torah. However, after Christ's resurection and studying Christ's teachings, he taught that following the Torah or doing works, was not enough, because no man can be completely sinless.
    That works will not get you to Heaven but faith and righteousness will. Jesus chastized the Jews in his Sermon on the Mount on this very thing. Chastizing them for being so religious and legalistic. Read it if you like: Matthew 5, 6, 7. Circumcision and eating Kosher foods are works.

    Paul's teachings in a nutshell were all about imitating Christ. Read Philipians, 2 1-11. Lockstep.

    Jesus was not a revolutionary against anyone, and Paul was not an agent of anyone but Christ.

  15. Afghanistan blames Pakistan for deadly rocket attacks; Pakistan denies

    This leaves US with just a few options.

    1. The Afghan Government is lying, those artillery attacks did not occur. Which is doubtful.

    2. The Taliban have heavy artillery and rocket capabilities.

    3. The Pakistani are lying, again.

  16. Saul/Paul was the head of the persecution of the Jesus movement, for the Romans. He received his "revelation" on the road to Damascus, to further persecute James, brother of Jesus, who was the chief of the Christians, at the time.

    Paul — Roman Agent or Informer?
    From the data sets of the Dead Sea scrolls.

  17. The only Saulus mentioned in Josephus was an agent who came to Jerusalem to divide the Jews. He caused some disturbances in the temple itself. While not making a direct connection to the Saul of the Bible his mission was the same, to divide the Jews, Acts 23:7. That Saul/Paul was a Roman agent is impossible to prove, but there is plenty of circumstantial evidence remaining in the novella of Luke called Acts. Saul/Paul was a Roman citizen. He was given very special treatment from his arrest/rescue to his eventual domicile in Rome, living unhindered, where we lose track of him. No one with any experience of military occupation or even police procedures would ever believe the Roman Centurion who apprehended Saul/Paul would allow his prisoner to address a rioting crowd and in a foreign language! And the escort’s size and the night-flight, Acts 23:23, are inexplicable if he were not someone of importance to the Romans who was to be preserved at all cost. His stay in Caesarea was comfortable, and he had frequent conversations with the major political players of the times. Both he and Josephus knew Herod Agrippa. Did Saul/Paul do earlier what Josephus did later, collaborate with the Romans?

    The Flavian Testament

  18. Saul, also known as Paul, Paulus, and Saint Paul the Apostle, (AD 3—67) is widely considered to be central to the early development and spread of Christianity, particularly westward from Judea. Many Christians view him as an important interpreter of the teachings of Jesus. Paul is described in the New Testament as a Hellenized Jew and Roman citizen from Tarsus (in present-day Turkey). He was a persistent persecutor of early Christians, almost all of whom were Jewish. Then came his "Road to Damascus" experience, which brought about his conversion to faith in Jesus as the Messiah.
    Due to his body of work and his undoubted influence on the development of Christianity, many modern scholars consider Paul to be the founder of Christianity. They deem Paul's modifications of Jesus' teachings and addition of important new doctrines as instrumental in establishing Christianity as a distinct religion, rather than a sect of Judaism, as Christianity was first known. ...

    Paul of Tarsus

    Constantinople, gag, is used as a general reference to the Roman Empire.

    It had not been established at the time of Jesus, Saul and James the Just.

  19. They deem Paul's modifications of Jesus' teachings and addition of important new doctrines as instrumental in establishing Christianity as a distinct religion, rather than a sect of Judaism, as Christianity was first known. ...

  20. Jesus chose Paul to further his teachings purposely because he was a Roman citizen. Jesus knew Paul would get a pass from the Romans and would not be killed like many other followers of Jesus who were spreading his good news at the time.

    True enough, Paul was murderous and spiteful prior to being struck blind on the road to Damascus. It is believed that he may have even been present at the Crucifiction. He seeked Rome's permission to find any and all followers of Christ to be imprisoned and killed.

    God chose him specifically for this task because of his background. His encounter with the resurected Christ on the road to Damascus softened his heart and revealed the Truth to him.

    "Saul/Paul was the head of the persecution of the Jesus movement, for the Romans. He received his "revelation" on the road to Damascus, to further persecute James, brother of Jesus, who was the chief of the Christians, at the time."

    That doesnt even make sense.

    James was not the chief of the Christians (what ever that means) at that time or any other time.

    The Truth is in the Bible, Rat,not in the Dead Sea Scrolls or on Google.

    Have you even bothered to read Acts as stated in your post? The division and arguement Paul caused in the Temple was all about Jesus being the Christ. The Sadduces did not believe in the resurection. The Pharisees acknowledged it. The Sadduces wanted Pau imprisoned, the Pharisees defended him. That was the arguement. He wasn't 007 for the Romans.

    Read the Bible if you want the Truth.

    By the way, calling him Saul/Paul does not offend me.

  21. .

    Paul — Roman Agent or Informer?
    From the data sets of the Dead Sea scrolls.

    Jesus rat you are truly losing it. What's the next conspiracy theory website you are going to cite?

    The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception? Good lord.

    Using documents written in 200 BCE as the basis for calling Paul of Tarsus a Roman agent? Good lord.

    Saul was a tax collector, obviously someone of importance in the Roman bureaucracy. More importantly, he was a Roman citizen with all the rights and privileges that entailed.

    Some of those rights included the right to stand trial and defend oneself, he had the right of appeal, he couldn't be tortured or whipped and the only way he could get the death sentance was for treason, and if accused of treason, he had the right to be tried in Rome. No wonder the Tribune backed off when he learned Paul was a citizen. He was worried about his ass.

    The article you cite is filled with quotes like "There is only one possible explanation..." No, there's not, except possibly to those naive enough to believe everything they read in google.


  22. James the Just, brother of Jesus, certainly took over the Jesus Movement, Christianity, after the death of Jesus.

    That is beyond debate.

    That Jesus nor James allowed for the rejection of Mosaic law, as did Saul/Paul, undeniable.

    The Christianity of Jesus of Galilee and that of Saul/Paul were not the same.

    Believe what you want.

    But in your view, is the US an Eastern Orthodox Christian Nation or a Latter Day Saints Christian Nation?

    Or is it a Roman Catholic Christian Nation?

  23. .

    Sorry gag.

    I was writing mine while you where posting yours.

    With regard to your comment on the Pharisees, Paul's family was of the Pharisees. Hard to say how Paul's family got their Roman citizenship. His father was a merchant and could have purchased it or it could have been earned by a previous relative for some prior military service. Regardless, he was a Roman citizen.


  24. A few links to the scholarly study that supports your view, gag, would be appreciated.

  25. Or should we take it on faith to be a fact?

  26. But that Saul/Paul was not in "lock step" with Jesus on the applicability of Mosaic law to Christians seems clear enough.

  27. But in your view, is the US an Eastern Orthodox Christian Nation or a Latter Day Saints Christian Nation?

    Your own statements bring into question your initial supposition about Israel. Is Israel an Orthodox Jewish nation, or a Conservative Jewish nation, a Reform Jewish nation, a Kabbalistic Jewish nation, ...

    Should I go on?

    Many assert that the teachings of Jesus were influenced by the Essenes, a group persecuted for their radical beliefs. Did Jesus really represent mainstream Jewish thought?

    No rat. This is just one more attempt by you to make something out of nothing.


  28. Israel is a Europeon colony in the Islamic Arc. One that uses religion to justify its' existence.

    I'd say that it encompasses most facets of Judaism, but "o" can tell us about that.

    The discussion, Q, goes to the idea that the US is a Christian Nation founded upon Christian principles.

    Christian Principles, as articulated by Jesus and James are based upon Mosaic law. As articulated by Saul/Paul Christianity is not bound by Mosaic law. The Saul/Paul version has, in the modern parlance, "grown" from its' more conservative roots.

    Not the same religion.

    No more than the Christianity of Roman Catholicism is the same as the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints.

    Neither being the same as the Christianity of Martin Luther.

  29. James the Just, brother of Jesus, certainly took over the Jesus Movement, Christianity, after the death of Jesus.

    more nonsense

    But what makes some sense is my fine daughter being able to get up this morning her left leg still hurting and wanting the DEBIT CARD and asking po ol dad what he'd like from the grocery store so I tell her nothing really I have a pack of smokes and she says

    "I want to do what I can"

    "I'm here for a purpose"


    I point my right finger at her, right between the eyes, that sacred spot, and say


    The world --there is always a world --was created for the benefit of those ripe for liberation, that IS the purpose of existence.


  30. All of the modern Christian religions differing greatly from that practiced by Jesus, in Galilee.

  31. When Saul returned to Israel, boobie, to participate in the Council of Jerusalem", he reported there to James and Peter.
    As described in Acts.

    'teaching all the Jews living among the gentiles to forsake Moses, and that you tell them not to circumcise their children or observe the customs'.(Acts 21, 21)

    Reference why this is "nonsense".

    You cannot argue with the facts, so as normal you attack the plaintiff. Like a petulant lawyer.

  32. We know more about Jack and Jacque Kennedy or Lyndon Johnson than we do about Jesus.

    We KNOW for instance that Jack Kennedy got his brains blown out by a shooter in Dallas, Texas.

    I am telling you that what we are talking about is the making of myth, from a creative source of some kind, and we are not talking history here.


  33. The more modern question:

    Has the jury found Blagojevich guilty, or not?

  34. Deuce -

    please provide me a hat tip for introducing the term "fucktard".

  35. It certainly is history, boob.

    Roman history.
    The history of "Western Civilization"
    The history of the United States.

    Religious history.

    The Roman Empire, Judaism and Christianity are not myths.

    They are the basis of the modern whirled, as we know it.

    Part of the History of Empire and its modern ramifications.

  36. desert rat said...
    Israel is a Europeon colony in the Islamic Arc. One that uses religion to justify its' existence.



    but not worth arguing with the Rat about it.

    As for the Islamic Arc?

    That is something interesting... Since it now reaches 1/2 across the globe and is expanding on an hourly basis and now actually does encompass the a European "colony" (called Europe)

  37. .

    The discussion, Q, goes to the idea that the US is a Christian Nation founded upon Christian principles.

    Christian Principles, as articulated by Jesus and James are based upon Mosaic law. As articulated by Saul/Paul Christianity is not bound by Mosaic law. The Saul/Paul version has, in the modern parlance, "grown" from its' more conservative roots.

    You continue to ignore the evolution of religion both in toto and specifically here in the U.S.

    The US was founded on Christian principles, primarily those of the Protestant denominations. You look at the words and ideals written into the Constitution and assume they represent the fact at the time they were written.

    You mention the 7th Day Adventists when in fact they are a 19th Century construct. You mention Roman Catholics as if they were welcomed throughout the US with open arms. Try telling that to those who suffered under the 'Know Nothing Party' in the 1800's or from the KKK. Religious freedom evolved here much as the policy on slavery.

    The discussion, Q, goes to the idea that the US is a Christian Nation founded upon Christian principles.

    Christian Principles, as articulated by Jesus and James are based upon Mosaic law.

    You once again make the leap from statement one to statement two. Christ never called himself a Christian but rather the fulfillment of Jewish prophecy. And 'Christian' was merely a name for the followers of Christ. You take the fact that there was disagreement within the early church and assume that if one version was right the other wasn't truly Christian.

    Once again a simplistic view.

    What is the Talmud but centuries of Jewish thought on various laws and other subjects compiled over millenium and in some cases varying substantially from author to author?

    Are you saying some of the authors weren't really Jewish?


  38. "Many assert that the teachings of Jesus were influenced by the Essenes"

    Well, no, not if you believe what Jesus said about himself in the Bible. Jesus was influenced 100% by his Heavenly Father, no one else.

    Here's your link, Rat: THE BIBLE

    You should read Act 21 again, Paul is being accused of telling people to turn from the Torah, not as how you claim.

    You still have not stated anything in the Bible that says Paul was not in lockstep with everything Jesus taught.

  39. duh

    let us try to think
    Ernest Hemingway had a CONTRACT with who was it Scribners I think to publish A Farewell To Arms.

    In our society it is illegal to publish A Farewell To Arms under the name billy shakespeare.

    Not so in the ancient world.

    We have no idea who "wrote" the Book of James.

    None really.

    Luke, whoever that was, proly wrote most of the stuff that goes under his name.

    Who wrote the Book of Revelation?????

    Well thank the Good Lord we now know from rat it wasn't Jesus.

    He being dead at the time.


    And if I have to read any more biblical scholarshit by rat I think I'll be dead soon too.


  40. Not, Q, that one or the other modern religion is not "truly" Christian, but that the Christianity of the modern whirled is not the religion that Jesus and his followers in Galilee adhered to.

    That there is great diversity amongst the followers of modern Christianity and that the claim the US is a Christian Nation is baseless due to that diversity.

    While none of the modern Christian churches can draw a direct lineage to Jesus and his disciples in Galilee.

    The Romans won.

  41. gag tells us

    Paul is being accused of telling people to turn from the Torah

    Which is true.
    Jesus never told anyone to turn from the Torah.

    Paul did, breaking step with what Jesus preached.

    As written in Acts, as we both referenced.

  42. "You don't professionalize until you federalize."

    -Tom Daschle

  43. Your lack of references to Jesus advocating his followers to abandon Mosaic law, as did Saul/Paul, is not conducive to changing my mind on the matter.

    Far from it, actually.

  44. Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

    Deuce -

    please provide me a hat tip for introducing the term "fucktard".

    Mon Jun 27, 12:57:00 PM EDT

    I second that motion if I still have any standing here at all.


  45. I guess if Mitt Romney is elected President, well, we'll be living in a Mormon Nation.

    Some consider the Later Day Saints to be Christian, others not so much.

    Perspective as well as perceptions differ on just what it means, to be a Christian in the modern whirled.

    As it did, it seems, amongst the early Christians, too.

  46. "All of the modern Christian religions differing greatly from that practiced by Jesus, in Galilee."

    With all due respect, Rat, your approach to this whole issue has you confused.

    Jesus is the Son of God, and while on earth (sent to Earth by God to establish a new covenant between God and man). He was a practicing Jewish Rabbi who studied and taught the Torah. Christianity in the true sense of the word, which is the following and belief of Jesus and his teachings, didnt exist. The origin of Christianity happened at the cross and at the resurection, shortly after Jesus said his last words, "it is finished." (I would put that in red letters if I knew how :-)). Those 3 words are as important as anything Jesus ever said. Among other things, those three words mean Jesus had delivered the new convenant between God and man, at God's instructions, that through faith in his sacrificed Son (the Lamb of God, get it?), one can receive the Grace of God and everlasting life. For Jew and Gentile alike, all one has to do is believe in Him and have faith. This does not go against the Torah, but adds to it, which is what Paul taught.

    As far as organized Christian denominations screwing it all up? Amen to that.

    Paul + Jesus = Lockstep.

  47. He was accused Rat, it was gossip, his statements were misinterpreted, similar to the way you have.

    Rat says, "don't confuse me with the facts, I have made my mind up, I googled it."

  48. That is the Roman version of the activity, gag.

    No doubt of that.

    History is written by the winners.

  49. Robert Byrd dead, Blago verdict in.

  50. He went down, down, down in a burning ring of fire.

  51. God you are stupid with your history is written by the winners this 'history' was first written be some of the biggest losers ever but i give up you are invincibly ignorant


  52. The Romans, boobie, are still running Christianity, what with the largest Christian sect in the whirled headquartered there.

    Their priests doing their job better than the Legions ever did.

    The Romans learning, long ago, that the military option is not a long term winner.
    Not when winning "Hearts and Minds" is the objective.

  53. Reportedly there are a billion folks, faithful to the Roman Catholic Church.

  54. Sounds like the "winners", to me.

  55. Sigh... Sonia Belle's blog is no more.

  56. The Romans edited The Book.

    Bible is Latin, for book, you know.

  57. The Romans choose the content of the Bible, propagated it across Europe, America, Asia and Africa and have in the process developed a billion faithful, across the whirled.

    Does not sound like losers.

  58. The Catholics are moving, to PA.

    READING, Pa. — Reading High School marked a milestone this month: a graduation ceremony with its first Hispanic valedictorian. Noe Cabello is unlikely to be the last.

    The Hispanic population of this historically white city shaped by English and German ancestry — along with the surrounding Lehigh Valley— has skyrocketed in the past decade, echoing a national trend highlighted by the 2010 Census.

    Reading, now 58% Hispanic, is the latest harbinger for a more diverse America in regions where Hispanic migration has been a relatively recent development.

    "If you look at the Census data from 2000 and now 2010, you can see that there's this phenomenon of Latinos moving to parts of the United States where there hasn't been Latinos before," says Stanton Wortham, a University of Pennsylvania researcher who specializes in linguistics and immigrant studies.

  59. heh the ancient Romans brought Christianity to America. bwaaahhhaaaa

    They'd only been dead for 15 hundred years.

    Claus helped a little in bringing Christianity out here, but not much, concentrating on the farming

    The spread of Christianity is a long lon g story, and interesting too

    Religion should never be treated by fools.


  60. Lola Clyde's father who was minister to the Niimipuu brought some Christianity but it didn't really take hold as they all have pickups and casino money now.

    If she were still alive I'd ask her if she was an ancient Roman though I think the answer would be no cause I don't recall any swords and shield an stuff out at the farm place where I spent so many years in my youth. There were many Nez Perce around the place though, sitting very quietly as they used to do.


  61. READING, Pa. — Reading High School marked a milestone this month: a graduation ceremony with its first Hispanic valedictorian. Noe Cabello is unlikely to be the last.

    White Pennsylvanians have fled from almost every city of any size. They left primarily because of black crime and the Hispanics filled in the gap left by the whites. On the margin, the Hispanics seem to be a step-up from the boys in the hood.

    The fact of life is that it is next to impossible to find any place on the planet that improves when blacks arrive in numbers that exceed a minority. People go out to ethnic neighborhoods for Chinese food, Indian food, Italian food, but I cannot remember anyone saying let's spend a nice evening in North Philadelphia and check out an Afro-American restaurant. There is no nice black area in Philadelphia or any other city in Pennsylvania.. It is just impolite to mention it.

  62. South and Central America, boobie.

    The Catholics from Iberia, you know.

    That you fail to realize the impact of Catholics in America, another indication of your ignorance of the whirled, beyond Idaho alfalfa fields.

    Roman Catholics, boobie, they're called that, for a reason.

  63. America is an entire hemisphere, boobie, not just 49 States in North America.

  64. Two Republicans, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor of Virginia and Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl of Arizona, last week left bipartisan discussions led by Biden, saying they would not stomach an increase in taxes on the wealthy.

    Biden, speaking at the Ohio Democratic Party dinner over the weekend, said, "we're never going to solve our debt problem if we ask only those who are struggling in this economy to bear the burden and let the most fortunate among us off the hook."

    He said it "borders on being immoral" for Republicans to want to prevent ending tax breaks for the wealthy.

  65. Roman Catholics, boobie, they're called that, for a reason.

    Honest to God you are a total IDIOT!!!!

    You've obviously got plenty of time, enroll in DUKE THEOLOGY SCHOOL!!!!!

    NOW!!!! Before it is TOO LATE!!!!! Timetimetimeyouknowamodeofourperceptions


  66. Pope John Paul II, helped take down the Soviets, a lot less than 1500 years ago.

    Made a big impact in liberating Poland, from the Communists, too, yes he did.

    He was a Roman Catholic, through and through. A master of the games Empires play.

  67. Read some non-fiction, boobie.
    A little geography would help you, a lot.

  68. And if I'd said that deuce I'd have been called a racist.

    Here we are negotiating with the Athletic Department to have them somehow guarantee the rents, fix the damages, turn the water back on, pick up the garbage.....

    They all got nice cars.

    That's the truth from here, right now.

    On the other hand I've known so many wonderful blacks here over the years I can't even begin to count them.

    And, who the hell in their right mind wants to live in white Appalasia?


  69. The poll offered bleak news for former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, who came in a distant sixth despite having campaigned heavily in the state for months.

    In addition, a Rasmussen Reports poll taken shortly after the June 13 debate for Republican candidates showed Bachmann rising to 19 percent, in second place behind Romney's 33 percent. And a Public Policy Polling survey taken June 16-19 also showed Bachmann surging into a tie for second place with Sarah Palin, who has not announced a presidential bid.

    In addition to Romney, Pawlenty, and Cain, Bachmann joins the ranks of other declared Republican candidates including former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman, Texas Rep. Ron Paul and former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum.

  70. People want freedom of thought and religion ratto and American perseverance had a lot to do with it.

    John Paul II was a wonderful man.


  71. Of course he was, boobie.

    But he was the titular head of the current incarnation of the Holy Roman Empire.

    Which did not die 1500 years ago, either.

    What's in a name, anyway?

  72. You should try a history book, too.








  74. You're losing it, boobie.

    But then again, that's nothing new.

  75. It's not about history you ignoramus.

    It is about meaning.

    g'nite and my daughter is here with some photos of her accident.

    That car was squished, like Squishy of old memory.

    She is truly lucky to be 'alive' if that is an advantage.


  76. No, boobie, it is all about history.

    It is about power politics in history and how it effects the present.

    To deny that the past effects the present, well, you are an alfalfa farmer.

    The eal meaning, politicians use religion, always have, always will.

    Like politicos claiming the US is a Christian Nation, while being unable to quantify that Christianity, historically.

    Jesus will be returning, to Missouri, you know.
    Mitt Romney believes it.
    He read it in the Book of Mormon, now he takes it on faith.

    Makes it true, at least for those that are believers, in the divinity of Jesus and his corps of Later Day Saints.

  77. Either he, or Mr Huntsman, they'll carry Nevada in the primary, Utah, too.

    Religion is their key, to that.

    Religion and politics, they go hand and hand.

    Always have.

  78. Hope your daughter does as well, in recovery, as your wife did, from her terminal illness.

    Back in the day.

  79. I am sorry you are offended by the truth. The numbers speak for themselves: Only 14% of the public school students in Philadelphia are white despite the white population of the city being nearly 50%. Now is that because the white people are all racists?

    I feel sorry for the decent black people that are stuck with what government and society has allowed to happen. Turning a blind eye to it will not change it. It is the Democrats that force blacks to stay in the government schools and those schools are a nightmare.

    Strawberry Mansion School is 98 percent black and located in the heart of North Philadelphia. Bok in South Philadelphia 83%; Communications Technology in Southwest Philadelphia 98% and The High School of the Future in West Philadelphia 95% and those schools are far from the worst Phildelphia has to offer. Why did the whites leave, because they all were in the Klan?. Why is that? Lead paint, not enough food, not enough welfare? Did all the Jews who left Philadelphia leave because they hated black people? Why did they all leave, because they hated their homes? Think.

  80. Sounds like people voted with their feet.

    A lot like what this fellow thinks is cause and effect:

    Wealthy Are on Strike Against Obama

  81. I know it but it is damned hard to say.

    Melody said "They are all lazy."

    That's not the truth, but we could start by cleaning up our TV.

    I have no idea what to do about inner Detroit or Philly.

    I am trying to work with them here.


  82. Explain it to me: Mormonism
    Here are 10 facts about Mormonism.

    Well, I put up 4 of them, if interested in the other 6, click the link.

    1. The official name of the Mormon church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

    2. Mormons consider themselves Christian but their beliefs and practices differ from traditional Christianity in key ways, including belief in sacred texts outside the Bible and practices like posthumous proxy baptism and wearing special undergarments.

    3. There are about 14 million Mormons today, with more than half living outside the United States.

    4. The Mormon religion was founded in upstate New York in 1830, when Joseph Smith published a translation of writings he said he found and translated from Egyptian-style hieroglyphics into English. That's the Book of Mormon, which believers say consists of writings produced by ancient American civilizations.


  83. Here is what happened in West Philadelphia last Thursday. Of course you don't happen to notice anything in particular about the crowd do you? That is in a town called Darby. You may not be familiar with Darby and the white racists that fled it. The first society formed in Darby township was an abolition society organized in 1830. It was the site of an annual meeting of the Pennsylvania State Anti-Slavery Society at Philadelphia.

    Darby was settled by Swedes in the mid 17th century and later by Quakers, two group notorious for racial bias. Many homes in Darby were opened to the underground railroad. Those homes were not owned by Klan members. Darby is still 50% white, but in what direction do you think it is going and why? Lead in the paint or a history of white bigots?

  84. Three Libyan ministers, including foreign minister Abdelati Obeidi, were in Tunisia for negotiations "with several foreign parties," Tunisia's official TAP news agency reported, without further details.

    A senior official representing Libya's rebels said that they were expecting to receive an offer from Khadafy "very soon" that could end the four-month war, AFP reported.

    Heavy fighting was reported in the Nafusa Mountains, southwest of Tripoli, centered on Bir al Ghanam, a strategic point on the road to the Libyan capital.

  85. Let me be clear, I will say what I think and do so. If you are offended by truth, too bad on you. When you catch me in a lie, flag it.

  86. 14 million Christians that believe Jesus came to America, after he rose from the dead and left Jerusalem.

    It's in their book.
    They believe it's history, too.

  87. Upper Darby is still one of the safest areas around Philadelphia. Large numbers of blacks go to Upper Darby to shop because merchants to the east in real heavy black areas have long since bailed. They did not leave because they hate money.

  88. According to Mormon theology, Jesus is the literal son of god and his goddess wife. He was born through physical sexual relations with Mary. Brigham Young taught that Jesus was not born with any involvement of the Holy Spirit.

  89. According to Mormon theology, Jesus was born in Jerusalem (Book of Mormon, Alma 7:9,10) and is of the Tribe of Benjamin. The city of Jerusalem (Jebusi) belonged to the tribe of Benjamin (Joshua 18:21-28)

  90. According to Mormon theology, Jesus was a polygamist (Journal of Discourses, Volume 4, page 259).

  91. The Mind's self understanding is all there is....but why waste the 'time'.


  92. .

    Ah, moved on to the Mormons I see rat.

    So that you know my criticism of your arguments isn’t based on the religious concepts being discussed but rather on what I consider your rather shallow thinking, your use of specific sources, and the quality of the sources you use to make your arguments, let me say that I am agnostic.

    Unlike Gag who appears to believe that the Bible is literal truth (an assumption on my part) or Bob who thinks all of life is myth, I, despite the fact that archeology has proven that many of the places and people were real, believe the Bible is allegory and myth (not a derogative term) that discusses abstract principles and ideas in story.

    Let’s start with your sources. People have criticized you for using Google. That is unfair in one sense because Google is a great resource if used properly. However, on a subject like religion where everyone has his own opinion, confining yourself to the first few Google pages of references restricts you to the most popular entries. And in today’s world of the conspiracy theory, the Dan Brown and reality TV crowds, and the people that sit around all day watching the Casey Anthony trial, it limits your perspective. On religion, there are thousands of entries on most subjects, most of them by conservative, orthodox scholars. However, there are also plenty by more liberal critics too that offer alternatives to the mainstream views.

    But let’s look at your sources.
    I’ve already discussed Paul – Agent or Informer that offers a criticism of Paul based on the Dead Sea scrolls so I won’t go into that again. But what about The Flavian Testament by C.N. Carrington. Who is C. N. Carrington? Hard to tell, since I couldn’t find many references in Google. Most I did find was from C.N. Carrington – Arts. Couldn’t find anything about C. N. Carrington – Arts either. I also couldn’t find a book called The Flavian Testament that has been published other than the Google reference you posted. Looks like C. N. Carrington may have put it up himself.

    Did find one reference that compared C. N. Carrington to others like George Atwell (Ceasar’s Messiah – The Roman conspiracy to Invent Jesus) who argue that there was no real Jesus. That the story of Jesus was the story of Titus and his campaign through Galilee and destruction of Jerusalem. Or another author that argued the Story of Jesus was really the story of Julius Ceasar.

    Then there is your reference to Saul of Tarsus on Wikja. Didn’t know what WIkja was. Still not sure. From what I can see, it appears anyone can go there and set up their own web page and post anything they like. There didn’t seem to be any reference to the guy who wrote the article. Not exactly what I would call authoritive.


  93. .

    But let’s take one of your more serious references, that of Bart D. Ehrman.

    According to his bio in Wikipedia, he is a well qualified biblical scholar. He has written about twenty books. He started out as a fervent born again, fundamentalist Christian. However, the more he got involved with biblical literature, the more concerned he became about what he viewed as particular discrepancies in the texts. Eventually, he became an agnostic after struggling with the philosophical problems of evil and suffering.

    [I would note that new converts to a particular faith are usually the most ardent proselytizers for their new faith. In some cases the opposite is also true. People who had invested much in their faith and then lost it often are the most vocal critics of what they lost. Just my opinion.]

    At any rate, his views appear to be outside the mainstream of today’s religious thought. He has argued that instead of those who have been termed “heretics” for tampering with the texts that it was in fact the orthodox establishment that tampered with the texts. That is not to say he is wrong only (as I pointed out before) you should be looking further in order to make a balanced judgment.

    If you do, you will find many of the same arguments leveled against Ehrman that I have leveled against you.

    Much of the evidence Ehrman offers is superficial. He states we do not have the original texts and if God really provided the Bible to man he would have found some miraculous way of preserving the originals. He ignores the fact that the originals of many (most?) ancient documents do not exist; yet through secondary sources and references, scholars are able to closely (not 100%) duplicate what the documents actually said. And in the case of the Bible, we are blessed with a surfeit of this secondary info.

    Ehrman makes a big deal about stating that there were no professional scribes in the ancient world and therefore we can assume that the “amateur” scribes made a mess of the translation. The content of the Dead Sea scrolls written 1000 years before previous documents that have been found put a lie to that assertion.

    Ehrman also says that Jesus may have led his followers astray by faulty interpretation of the Bible; yet, in many of the cases cited by Ehrman, Jesus’ words are merely and expansion on the words in the Bible.

    Finally, Ehrman says because there are many interpretations of who Jesus was and what he actually said, we really don’t know much about Jesus. I would suggest there are many who would argue with this conclusion.

    The fact is, with all the minutiae Ehrman talks about there is nothing there that discredits the main tenets of the Christian faith.

    I mentioned Ehrman has written about 20 books. Critics say many of them rehash the same territory. Further they complain that they lack any type of extensive bibliography but instead reference other works by Ehrman.
    I am not saying Ehrman is wrong on some of his conclusions, only that there are plenty of equally qualified scholars who disagree with the guy.

  94. believe the Bible is allegory and myth (not a derogative term) that discusses abstract principles and ideas in story.

    That is exactly what I believe.


  95. .

    Now some comments on some of your statements.

    First on accuracy.

    The "New Testament" not being the work of Jesus or James, but of the Roman Emperor Constantine.


    Why boob, you've told us that the Bible is just literature.

    Open to editing and revision.

    Emperor Constantine certainly had that done.

    Or the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, the Gospel of Judas and other Agnostic Gospels would have made the cut, at the First Council of Nicaea.

    The First Council of Nicaea exemplified the raw power of Constantine to shape Christianity.

    That Christianity was profoundly changed after that power was exercised, historical fact.


    The canon wasn't discussed at the First Council of Nicene and it wasn't finaly codified until around 400 A.D. Secondly, much of the canon, about 20 books I believe, had been acceptd as authentic for years primarily because it was believed that they were written by either the apostles or someone so close to the apostles that their words were divinely inspired. The balance of the books included were by a consensus of Church fathers and experts not by Constantine despite what your "sources" might say.

    With regard to Constantine's importance to the Council of Nicea that is legitimate. After all, he did call it; however, he did so at the suggestion of a synod of bishops who were concerned about the Arian heresy and the effect it was having on Church unity.

    Where you go wrong is in emphasizing his participation in the Council. Constantine was no scholar and likely had little appreciation for the various theological concepts being discussed. What he was was a politician and what he wanted was unity thin the Church and within the empire.

    His one demand of the Council was come up with a consensus set of beliefs (which they did) and anyone that doesn't accept those beliefs will be excommunicated (which they were).

    You talk of the date of Easter being changed (as a poke in the eye of the Jews). Nonsense. Many Christians has been celebrating Easter on Sunday for years. The reasons it was changed although not complicated would take an entire post to explain but it was mainly because of the unpredictibility of the Jewish calendar which made it difficult to know when Easter would fall.


  96. .

    On consistency.

    That Jesus nor James allowed for the rejection of Mosaic law, as did Saul/Paul, undeniable.

    Funny that you should say that given the faith you put in Mr. Ehrman as a source since he says the opposite.

    On questionable assumptions.

    The Romans edited the book

    In one sense meaningless, if what you are talking about is the Roman world since everyone involved and effected was Roman at that time.

    But from your other posts, I think you mean the Roman Catholics.

    The Romans choose the content of the Bible, propagated it across Europe, America, Asia and Africa and have in the process developed a billion faithful, across the whirled.

    At the time, the Church was more ecumenical and it was bishops, both east and west, that determined the Canon. Of course, the Pope as Bishop of Rome and considered first among equals also had to buy into it.

    While none of the modern Christian churches can draw a direct lineage to Jesus and his disciples in Galilee.

    Again wrong. The Roman Catholic Church claims direct lineage through Peter, the Rock.


  97. .

    On superficial thinking

    That there is great diversity amongst the followers of modern Christianity and that the claim the US is a Christian Nation is baseless due to that diversity.

    This is basically because you just don't get it rat. The date assigned for Christmas and Easter mean nothing. They just honor the fact that Christ was born of virgin birth, that he died on the cross for our sins, and on the third day rose from the dead.

    The death and resurrection of Christ are the central tenants of Christian faith, Everything else, arguments over one biblical passage or another, an inconsistency here or there spread over millennia just aren't that important.

    It is faith in that central idea that would make this a Christian nation.


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