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Sunday, June 12, 2011

Netanyahu Beating the War Drums on Iran

Believes each dead Israeli is equivalent to 70 dead Americans

In April of this year the New York Times ran a story By DAVID E. SANGER and THOM SHANKER:
Gates Says U.S. Lacks a Policy to Thwart Iran

:Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates has warned in a secret three-page memorandum to top White House officials that the United States does not have an effective long-range policy for dealing with Iran’s steady progress toward nuclear capability, according to government officials familiar with the document.

That caught my attention because it was an obvious intentional leak designed to focus public opinion on the so-called "existential threat" of a nuclear Iran to Israel. The fanciful threat is ended, of course, by a pre-emptive US attack against Iran. Such an attack is the desired outcome of certain Israeli politicians and their minions in the US Congress (of which there are many). Such a reckless and needless attack against Iran would be the ruin of the US and could not come at a worse time given our existing wars and terrible financial troubles.

Many in Israel and the US are trying to make Iran a US problem. Iran is in many ways a problem for the US but Iran is not a threat to the US. If Israel believes that Iran is an existential threat, that is their problem. Israel is a nuclear power, armed to the teeth with an arsenal that could destroy Iran and every potential ally of Iran. Israeli paranoia should not lead to US folly. There is no US interest served by slavishly following Israel into a such a needless calamity.

If you do not think that this is going on, you are not paying attention. Benjamin Netanyahu is a dangerous demagogue and no friend to the US. Israeli problems are not solved by the US being dragged into another Middle Eastern war.

Middle East
Jun 10, 2011 ASIA TIMES

False bells on Iran's nuclear program
By Kaveh L Afrasiabi

Confusion over an assessment of Iran's nuclear program by the Rand Corporation in the past week perfectly illustrates the quagmire that anyone has to contend with when sifting through bias on media reports.

When the Republican-leaning New York Post says history may well mark United States President Barack Obama "as the leader who let Iran get the bomb - and so doomed the Middle East to a new Dark Age", it based its assertion on a report it attributed to Rand Corporation analyst Gregory Jones.
"Using the latest data from the International Atomic Energy Agency, he recently concluded that, if Iran's centrifuges continue to produce enriched uranium at current capacity, the regime will have 90% of the 20 kilograms it needs to produce a nuclear weapon within two months - certainly by summer's end," the Post said in an opinion piece. [1]
The Post report was at least an accurate reflection of Jones'

calculations in a report dated June 2, but inaccurately reported that it was published by the Rand Corporation, when it was in fact from the Non-proliferation Policy Education Center. [2] Jones has written for Rand, but his last report for the non-profit policy and research think-tank was published in 2009.

Yet the New York Post was not alone. A deluge of commentaries took it at face value that Rand was alleging with iron-clad certainty that Iran was "two months away from making nuclear bombs". Media sources who attributed the report to Rand included Israel's Ynetnews, the Daily Mail in the United Kingdom, the Weekly Standard and American Thinker, the latter under the headline, "RAND Corp: Iran 8 weeks from the Bomb". [3]

The Rand Corporation's own report, Iran's Nuclear Future: Critical US Policy Choices, financed by the US Air Force and published on June 7, contained no such timetable and is about policy alternatives for the United States and urges greater engagement. [4]

The study's lead author Lynn E Davis, a senior political scientist at Rand, summed up the report in a statement saying, "The challenge for the United States is to influence how the Iranian leadership pursues [national security] interests, for they could provide reasons for acquiring nuclear weapons."

For all it is worth, the Rand report failed to mention that the US intelligence community has yet to revise its December 2009 finding that Iran as of early 2003 has stopped its nuclear weapon program. Nor does it mention that the IAEA despite its expressed concerns about the "possible military dimension" of Iran's nuclear activities has repeatedly stated that after extensive inspections it has found "no evidence of diversion of declared nuclear material".

Close scrutiny of the study shows repeated references to "considerable uncertainties" regarding Iran's nuclear program and, on page 14, it states categorically that "Iran is likely in the near to medium term to strive to stay within the bounds of international norms and laws established by the NPT [nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty], while continuing with uranium enrichment and warhead experimentation."

This is hardly an affirmation of an Iranian march toward nuclear weapons, unless the scope of outside inspections of Iran's nuclear activities by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) is considered irrelevant. The IAEA's surveillance cameras at Tehran's enrichment facility in Natanz can easily detect any diversion of nuclear material.

A report by investigative journalist Seymour Hersh titled "Iran And The Bomb - How Real is the Nuclear Threat?" and published in the June 6 issue of The New Yorker magazine quotes former IAEA director general Mohammad ElBaradei as saying he didn't see "a shred of evidence" in 12 years in charge to suggest Iran is building nuclear-weapons facilities and using enriched materials.

"I don’t believe Iran is a clear and present danger. All I see is the hype about the threat posed by Iran," ElBaradei, a likely candidate for future Egyptian president, told Hersh in the interview. An abstract of Hersh's piece says:
There’s a large body of evidence, however, including some of America’s most highly classified intelligence assessments, suggesting that the U.S. could be in danger of repeating a mistake similar to the one made with Saddam Hussein’s Iraq eight years ago - allowing anxieties about the policies of a tyrannical regime to distort our estimates of the state’s military capacities and intentions. The two most recent National Intelligence Estimates (N.I.E.s) on Iranian nuclear progress have stated that there is no conclusive evidence that Iran has made any effort to build the bomb since 2003.

Yet Iran is heavily invested in nuclear technology. In the past four years, it has tripled the number of centrifuges in operation at its main enrichment facility at Natanz, which is buried deep underground.

International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspectors have expressed frustration with Iran’s level of cooperation, but have been unable to find any evidence suggesting that enriched uranium has been diverted to an illicit weapons program. [5]
Such frustration was in evidence on Monday when Yukiya Amano, ElBaradei's successor at the global nuclear watchdog, told the IAEA board the agency had acquired new "information related to possible past or current undisclosed nuclear related activities that seem to point to the existence of possible military dimensions to Iran's nuclear program".

The disclosure of new information came as Iran announced it would enrich nuclear fuel at an underground facility whose function had been secret until 2009, boosting its production of enriched uranium in spite of UN sanctions over its refusal to halt the enrichment program, according to a report in the Wall Street Journal.

It is ironic, albeit understandable from the prism of the US Air Force, which is in competition with other branches of the US military and has a vested interest in promoting itself by getting ahead in the "war-games", that the Rand report on Iran's nuclear program pays scant attention to the actual program and, instead, focuses on various potential scenarios and the policy implications for the US, Israel, and Iran's neighbors in Persian Gulf.

Although maintaining that "different future Iranian nuclear postures are possible", it nonetheless takes for granted Iran's evolution of a nuclear weapons program that allegedly could be either "virtual", ie fully developed short of building the actual bombs", or "ambiguous" or "declared". The reason for the multiple authors' collective certainty that Iran is acquiring a nuclear weapon capability is that "Iran's national security interest could be served by nuclear weapons".

Not so, and in fact the Rand study itself provides several clues that contradict its abstract generalization on Iran's national security interests, such as the implication of Iran's Arab neighbors being spurred to emulate Iran and build their own bombs and thus hurl the oil region into a costly nuclear arms race, to US playing nuclear shield for the supposedly vulnerable Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) states indefinitely, etc. As the authors concede, "expanded US conventional activities could be counterproductive" and "heighten Iranian threat perception."

In addition to a distorted understanding of Iran's national security interests and priorities, the report also has a distorted view of how Iran's neighbors view the Iranian nuclear threat, claiming that none of the Gulf Cooperation States (GCC) states support "an approach that seeks to reduce the threat posed to Iran".

In fact, the myth of a monolithic GCC bloc with a unified voice on Iran needs debunking, and following the report's own line of argument, the GCC states should logically support a more congenial security environment with reduced risks for Iran that could, in turn, keep Iran's nuclear potential just that; potential rather than actual.

Interestingly, the Rand report's release coincided with a Washington conference on the changing Middle East and future of US-Iran relations on Tuesday, featuring the former head of US Central Command, Admiral James Fallon, who told the audience that there was very little chance of any US and or Israeli strike on Iran and that the US and Iran should pursue the path of comprehensive dialogue and engagement in light of their shared concerns in the region.

Unfortunately, instead of giving coverage to such voices of reason, the US media and others opted to give prominent and erroneous billing of alarming new information about Iran's nuclear program; yet another example of Chomskyan "manufacturing consent".


  1. I think it more likely they already have the material for a bomb and are trying to perfect their delivery system.

    I see the article quotes El Baredei, at which point my interest waned.


  2. A bomb does them no good against Israel except as a chess piece and a deterrent. It is useless as an offensive weapon as Israel has over one hundred and fifty nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them. Do the math.

    As far as Ahmadinejad being an enemy and a religious fanatic, he has plenty of company in the ME, but Ahmadinejad is also a clever, ruthless politician. He is a rational player and is in no hurry to die. None of them are, but most of them are just fine getting others to die.

  3. Egypt is melting down and we are foolishly expanding in Libya and now threatening involvement with Syria.

    We had a strategic bulwark against Iran, but we hanged him. His dying words were cursing his Persian enemy. The Iraq that we liberated from Saddam was to have been happy to repay us in oil, so the Neocons said. The Neocons estimates and predictions were off by a trillion dollars. We have 20,000 Americans dead and wounded and is the Middle East safer?

    If we listen to Netanyahu and his claque, the ME is more dangerous than ever and all it will take is another American war, this time against Iran, to fix it all.

    Sure it will, or as the departed Red once said, "what could possibly go wrong?"

  4. Iran's goal is the destruction of the west.

    israel is the small satan and the USA is the Great Satan.

    Israel is being thrown under the bus by the USA and the world. As for defending it'sself?

    It world want to sanction Israel for BUILDING homes let alone nuking Iran.

    Face the truth folks.....

    Iran is going NUKE. This will cause a crazy nuke race in the ME and in the end if we are lucky? Most of the Sunni and Shitte world will nuke it each other. So what if 1/3 of the world goes up in a mushroom cloud?

    Forget oil...

    Forget "stability", America will be alive. It will survive.

    Of course an Iranian bomb will ensure that the Iran/Pakistan/North Korea/syria axis will continue to sow chaos. (funding and supplied by russia and china)

    Yep time to let the nuke genie out of the bottle..

    I just wonder what America's response to an EMP over the eastcoast will be? Will America apologize? Send new aid to the Iranians?

    Keep trying to say that Iran is Israel's problem and not the WORLD's?

    You are living in denial.

  5. Yep it's Bibi drumming the drum...

    The Fordo installation as recorded in 2009
    Iranhas struck another blow in its nuclear offensive against the world. Tuesday, June 7, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad termed Iran's nuclear program "a train with no brakes or reverse gear" after Tehran announced the deployment of submarines in the Red Sea. Wednesday, Iran's vice president and atomic chief Fereydoon Abbasi Davani said Iran's 20-percent uranium enrichment work would be transferred from Natanz to Fordo this summer. Purification capacity would be tripled, he said, by improved centrifuges.
    DEBKAfile's military sources report that this move further shortens Iran's road to weapons grade uranium of 90 percent.
    Last November, Abbasi Davani escaped an attempt of his life in northern Tehran, for which Iran held Israel responsible.
    Fordo is a well-guarded underground facility situated near the military installations surrounding the holy city of Qom and protected by air defense missile batteries. It was burrowed deep into the side of a mountain. These features make the facility all but invulnerable to an American or Israel air strike.
    The very name Fordo is a red flag for US President Barack Obama.
    In Pittsburgh on Sept. 25, 2009, Obama appeared before the world media, flanked by the British prime minister of the day, George Brown, and French President Nicolas Sarkozy, to reveal the existence of the surreptitious Iranian enrichment facility at Fordo. He gaveTehran two weeks to open up the facility to full International Atomic Energy Agency inspectionand disclose the plans for the site, failing which Washington, London and Paris would pursue joint action against the Islamic Republic.
    The answer Iran gave was that the US president's allegations were baseless and the nuclear watchdog inspectors were welcome.
    The UN inspectors arrived at the Fordo subterranean facility a month later and returned to Vienna to report they found nothing – neither centrifuges for enrichment nor nuclear materials. Two more UN inspections produced the same result.
    Iran's announcement Wednesday demonstrates that in 2009, it made a fool of Western leaders, especially President Obama, and tricked the international atomic agency inspectors.Enrichment uranium to 20 percent meanwhile takes Iran another big step towards attaining the fuel for a nuclear weapon.
    Three years ago, Obama accused Tehran of concealment and deceit. Today, the Iranians no longer bother to conceal the true function of the Fordo facility - or even that 3,000 advanced centrifuges will be working there when the plant reaches full capacity.
    Iran's rulers feel they can be afford to be barefaced about their activities because they are certain that neither the US nor Israel with take military action against the Fordo plant. They do not find the condemnation of world powers or the nuclear watchdog too burdensome to live with.

  6. Yep more DRUM beating by the Jew....

    'The day after Iran's first nuclear test is a normal day'
    A bizarre article on a Revolutionary Guard website breaks a taboo by anticipating the impact of an Iranian bomb

    Any mention of an Iranian nuclear weapon is taboo in the Islamic Republic, which insists that its nuclear programme is entirely for peaceful, civil purposes. So it is remarkable, to say the least, that an article has appeared on the Gerdab website, run by Iran's Revolutionary Guards, anticipating the day after Iran's first test of a nuclear warhead. Here is a translation of the text:

    The day after Iran's first nuclear test is a normal day.
    The day after Islamic Republic of Iran's first nuclear test will be an ordinary day for us Iranians but in the eyes of some of us there will be a new sparkle.
    It's a good day. It's seven in the morning. The sun is not fully up yet but everywhere is bright. In the northern hemisphere many countries are beginning the day...
    The day before, probably in central deserts of Iran, where once Americans and some other Western countries wanted to bury their nuclear waste, an underground nuclear explosion has taken place. The strength of the explosion was not so great as to cause severe damage to the region nor so weak that Iranian scientists face any problems in running their tests.
    Today is a normal day like any other. Like 90% of the year, there is news about Iran, and these are the headlines which can be seen on foreign news sites:
    Reuters: Iran detonated its nuclear bomb
    CNN: Iran detonated nuclear bomb
    Al-Jazeera: The second Islamic nuclear bomb was tested
    Al-Arabia: The Shia nuclear bomb was tested
    Yahoo! News: Nuclear explosion in Iran
    Jerusalem Post: Mullahs obtained nuclear weapon
    Washington Post: Nuclear explosion in Iran, Shock and despair in Tel Aviv
    Meanwhile, the domestic media will offer many congratulations to the Hidden Imam and the Supreme Leader:
    Keyhan: Iran's first nuclear bomb was tested
    Jomhoori-e-eslami: Iran successfully carried out a nuclear test
    Iran: By order of the president, Iran's 100% homemade nuclear bomb was tested
    Ettela'at: Iran's much anticipated nuclear bomb exploded

    This strange, hypothetical, article, which first appeared on April 24, hammers home again and again the message that an Iranian nuclear test will not lead to disaster. On the contrary, life will go as before except that Iranians will feel better about themselves.

    The news commotion will not knock life in Iran off balance. Civil servants will punch in at work on time as always, while some will be late as always. ...The day after the Islamic Republic of Iran's first nuclear test will be an ordinary day for us Iranians but in the eyes of some of us there will be a new sparkle. A sparkle of national pride and strength.

    This has the look of a kite being flown, but for whom? It could be intended to get Iranians used to the idea of a nuclear test, and less fearful of international reaction. It could be a gesture of defiance to the world by hardline elements - according to independent experts, Gerdab is run by the Revolutionary Guards' cyber defence command, which is presumably still smarting from the Stuxnet attack. Opposition websites describe it as an enforcement tool for the regime, identifying and threatening independent bloggers inside Iran.
    The article comes during a period when Tehran's official stance is particularly defiant and assertive, announcing today that it will triple its production of 20% enriched uranium and shift it to the underground Fordow site, near Qom.

    yep blame the jews...

  7. More of Israel drum beating...

    Iran announced today (March 17) that it has launched a new rocket and space capsule designed to carry a monkey into orbit, according to the country's state-run news agency.

    According to Iran's official Islamic Republic News Agency, the country launched the capsule on a Kavoshgar-4 ("Explorer" in Farsi) rocket Tuesday (March 15). The IRNA report stated that "data and images" from the capsule were expected to be sent from orbit 120 kilometers (75 miles) above the Earth, Reuters reported.

    The launch marks a major step forward for Iran's fledgling space program, and a worrying sign for foreign nations fearing that Iran's space goals are aimed at developing space weapons.

    It's easy blame the jews....

  8. Yep it's the jews fault....

    Iran's president has unveiled new "third-generation" centrifuges that its nuclear chief says can enrich uranium much faster than current technology.
    The centrifuges would have separation power six times that of the first generation, Ali Akbar Salehi said in a speech marking National Nuclear Day.
    Uranium enrichment is the central concern of Western nations negotiating with Iran over its nuclear programme.
    The new technology could shorten the time it takes to build a nuclear bomb.

    drum beat. drum beat....

    fucking morons...

  9. Nuclear weapons are strategic defensive weapons. There has never been the use of a tactical nuclear weapon. No nuclear power has ever been attacked by another nuclear power.

    Israel has 150 nuclear weapons. Iraq would not have attacked Iran if Iran had nuclear weapons. Pakistan and India have equivalent nuclear stockpiles. Pakistan and India despise each other. It is highly unlikely that either power will launch a nuclear attack on the other.

    Iran is a rational adversary and an enemy that is also a rising power. Israel can attack Iran at its peril. That is Israel's decision and if Israel does attack Iran, then the consequences belong to Israel. There is no practical way that Israel or Israel and the US can stop Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons at a cost tolerable to the US.

    Let the tough talking Netanyahu fight his battles in his own name and don't do the US any favors.

  10. More Bibi Drumbeating...

    Death to America' Day: How Iran Trained Its Young to Protest

    Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1934584,00.html#ixzz1P46e8ILW

  11. Deuce: Iran is a rational adversary

    Excuse me while i change my pants....

  12. You have no concept of what a rational adversary is. Just because you do not understand an enemy's reason, does not mean that he does not have one. Netanyahu knows that the Iranian State is a rational player on the Global political stage and an enemy of Israel, but Netanyahu is a shrewd and ruthless politician and knows that if he can involve the US, he can achieve his short term goals. He is willing to risk US assets to do that.

    If your hysteria and strident irrationality is shared by most Israelis, you and Israel have some serious problems, but they are not US problems.

    The US problem is that we are strung out on our oil addiction and up to our eyes in involvement in the Middle East. We need to let things settle down and get out. That would be in US interests. Israel is capable of defending itself but knows that it cannot attack Iran and get away with it by itself.

    The US does not need to get involved and sucked into another Middle East War. Countries like India, China and Brazil are getting rich while the US wastes what assets it has left fighting endless wars in the Middle East. The nonsense has to stop.

    Ironically, Iran has established diplomatic and trade relations in Latin America. Iran is benefitting from Latin American trade while assisting the US in getting deeper and deeper into one troubled part of the Middle East after another. Iran has strengthened its ties with Russia and China. That sounds rational to me from an Iranian point of view.

  13. Deuce said...
    You have no concept of what a rational adversary is.

    I know Iran is not "rational" in any western definition.

    You can huff and puff and try to explain how Iran is rational but your "rational" attempts to explain just shows how you really do not understand the Iranian islamic mindset...

    No use in trying to open your mind...

    Just blame Bibi for beating the war drums...

    It's easier for you I understand...

  14. Deuce: If your hysteria and strident irrationality is shared by most Israelis, you and Israel have some serious problems, but they are not US problems.

    US Problems?

    I dont think you have a clue...

    I think you are being irrational.

    Cant see the forest for the trees....

    Just have the USA "get out" of the ME and all will be ok....

    Just what kind of weed are you smokin? Please send some....

    Israel is the canary in the mine...

    America is the mine....

    If israel were wiped off the planet tomorrow?

    NOTHING would change....

    The USA is the Great Satan, think I am the "hysterical" one?


    denial aint just a river in egypt.....

    Iran is rational as you say...

    It has NO problem causing a world war as it "rationally" benefits" it's goals...

    iran "rationally" wants to start riots and rebellion across the sunni world, that's rational.

    Iran chooses to build nukes rather than feed it's people, that's rational....

    Iran chooses to arm with hundreds of thousands of rockets enemies of Israel to cause genocide, that's rational

    Kill the Jews is rational, hitler was rational as well...

    Iran has no problem loosing 3/4 of it's population in a nuclear exchange, as it knows that there are 1.2 BILLION moslems still left... That's rational...

    Iran has no problem destroying the middle east if it would kill a few hundred thousand jews...


    Yep mass murder is rational...

    I just dont get it....


    So maybe Israel should be "rational" nuke every arab and moslem nation on the planet?

    That would solve the problem...

    Rational, as you would say...

    On nice nuke in each major city of the arab and islamic world (notice i said islamic, got to nuke pakistan, maylasia and indonesia too)

    Israel (you say has 150 nukes) so that would give Israel 150 cool to nuke targets)


  15. Let's have a "rational" talk about Iran....

    If Israel used 13 of it's nukes on Iran, 1 on Lebanon, 2 on Egypt (aswan dam of course), one on damascus, 5 on arabia (got to nuke the black rock of course) what would happen the day after?



    Since Israel stlll would have 130 or so nukes left...

    And face facts Nato cant even beat libya!!!

    thanks deuce, you have opened my eyes...

    It's time for Israel to be rational, nuke the pricks asap.

    To hell with the world.

  16. We're within a gnat's ass-hair of going tits-up in the United States.

    We don't have the time, or money, to waste on a bunch of religious crazies in the ME. Of any stripe.

  17. .

    Iran has no problem loosing 3/4 of it's population in a nuclear exchange, as it knows that there are 1.2 BILLION moslems still left... That's rational...

    Now that is an irrational statement.


  18. I have had enough after Iraq. We don't need more young working class Americans getting maimed and killed while the American elites take a pass on military service. We have heard all the bullshit from Lyndon Johnson and ever other American President through to Barack Obama. Enough is enough.

  19. I agree; and, it was good to hear Gates tell NATO "whose cow ate the cabbage," yesterday, also.

  20. Quirk said...

    Iran has no problem loosing 3/4 of it's population in a nuclear exchange, as it knows that there are 1.2 BILLION moslems still left... That's rational...

    Now that is an irrational statement.

    Nasser once said of Israel, We could throw 5 million people at Israel and it they all were killed? So what we still have 55 million left....

    To use western standards of life and value and apply them to the current islamists is irrational

  21. We have 40,000,000 Million Americans Unemployed, or Underemployed. 30,000,000 + don't have adequate medical care, and 45,000,000 are on Food Stamps.

    We're sliding back into recession, and 20% never really escaped the first one.

    It's time for the United States to Prioritize.

  22. Deuce said...
    I have had enough after Iraq. We don't need more young working class Americans getting maimed and killed while the American elites take a pass on military service. We have heard all the bullshit from Lyndon Johnson and ever other American President through to Barack Obama. Enough is enough.

    OK, simpleton... Let's do it your way..

    America needs to come home from everywhere...

    Good luck with international trade....

    Good luck with America standing for anything...

    As for Iraq leave... As for Afgahnistan? From the day obama increased the troops there and changed the roe it was a plan to make america tire of war...

    obama has succeeded in his plan to cuckold america...

    AMerica the weak, America the scared, America the cant do anything for anyone but herself...

    Obama's America....

    There is no reason to sacrifice American youth on treasure for stupid fights. But there are fights worth fighting.

    Is Libya worth it?

    Will Yemen be worth it?

    Where will America, under Obama, go to war next?

    If Iran goes nuke, will AMerica have any interests in keeping the oil flowing from the ME?

    And just who has been keeping the USA on OIL for all these decades?

    Not Israel..

    OIL is the root of the Islamic problem and it's NOT just Israel's problem. Isolationist mentality will not stop Iranian and Arabian islamists....

    wake up

  23. Rufus II said...
    We have 40,000,000 Million Americans Unemployed, or Underemployed. 30,000,000 + don't have adequate medical care, and 45,000,000 are on Food Stamps.

    We're sliding back into recession, and 20% never really escaped the first one.

    It's time for the United States to Prioritize.


    Nato costs 110 billion a year.

    South Korea? Japan? 130 bases in 80 nations across the world...

    Pull back..

    Create a nice vacuum...

    The world will descend into total anarchy...

    But that's what you want...

    America 1st and only...

    No funding of even allies?

    Nope, cut it all off....

    Flat earthers....

  24. America 1st and Only

    Now, you're catching on.

  25. We spent a Trillion Dollars in Iraq, Protecting the Oil Supply.

    Iraq voted with iran and Venezuela to keep the supply down, and the price High at the recently concluded OPEC Meeting.

    We could have spent less than half that money and been completely Off Foreign Oil by now.

    Our Vice President goes to Israel, and they embarrass him by beginning construction on some new apartments in the no-build zone while he is there.

    Netanyahou comes to the U.S. and gets in a public pissing match with our President.

    Piss on the whole bunch. We don't have time for this nonsense.

  26. Rufus: Our Vice President goes to Israel, and they embarrass him by beginning construction on some new apartments in the no-build zone while he is there.

    You really dont know anything about what you type do you?

    "No-build" zone?

    Just where do you get this nonsense from?


    This bar is turning into a john birch society....

  27. I think Obama is intelligent enough to be President and smart enough to not get taken in by Netanyahu the way Bush got taken by the Neocons, AIPAC and the American Zionists. Things could be worse.

    The GOP Goddess Palin would be worse.

  28. Indeed, the only thing that scares me about Sarah Palin is that she might actually believe that "Friend, and Ally" stuff.

  29. We gav'em $3 Billion, and asked them not to build there.

    They took the Three Billion, and gave us the finger.

    That would happen exactly once in My White House.

  30. Poor Bibi, he cannot be a "real" thug, not unless he gets Mr Obama to back his play.

    The status que across the Islamic Arc is crashing.
    The power structure that allowed their radicals to attack the US is under stress.

    Good thing, that.

    The Israeli have sided with the Sunni against the Shiite, while it was the Sunni that attacked US.

    Since the Iranian Shits had nothing to do, with the attacks on the US, they'll just have to wait.

  31. Rufus II said...
    We gav'em $3 Billion, and asked them not to build there.

    They took the Three Billion, and gave us the finger.

    That would happen exactly once in My White House.

    We gave them 3 billion, which they turn around and SPEND in AMERICA.

    We gave 6 billion to pakistan and asked them to stop helping people MURDER americans and they gave us the finger...

    We gave Egypt tens of billions and they refused to extradite a MURDERER of American citizens, they gave us the finger...

    Rufus, your standards suck...

    One standard for Israel and none for anyone else?

    America asks Israel not to allow construction in a Jerusalem Suburb and your pissed?

    One standard for all...

  32. Cedarford said... Desert Rat said...

    ah more jew haters come out from under their rocks...


  33. This is what's possible when we put our mind to it: California Produced 105 Gigawatt/hrs of Electricity from Renewables, Yesterday.

    And, that doesn't include Hydro, or Imported Wind, and Hydro.

    Maybe, a fourth of their electricity came from coal, and nat gas yesterday.

    We could be doing this with biofuels. Today.

  34. Between Wind, and Ethanol, Iowa is within a tisch of being a "Net" energy Exporter. Actually, I think they have some domestic coal. If they do, then they are probably a net energy exporter, Now.

    All this, w/o an oil, or gas well in the state that I'm aware of.

  35. The first to conflate Israel and Jews, the Story of "o".

    Unable to quantify the Iranian military threat, to the US, "o" drops to the lowest common denominator of his frequent screeds, religion.

  36. desert rat said...
    The first to conflate Israel and Jews, the Story of "o".

    Ah the self confessed murderer speaks...

    Nothing new here...

    The same porn references... the same nonsense...

    Rat, the Israel hating, Jew hating, zionist hating self appointed cliff claven of the bar...

    To any that read this?

    Please understand that Rat has a history of thousands of points bashing all things Israel, zionism and Jews.

    He is a self confessed murderer. He murdered people in Central America as part of a "wet ops" or so he has claimed.

    Now he is an expert on all subjects under the sun...

  37. Now I will expect the Rat and his rodent offspring to launch into a laundry list of the evils of Israel...

    Pollard, Liberty Ship, illegal settlements, murder of innocents...

    yep same shit, different thread...

  38. Go away, wio. You're just making shit up, now.

  39. Funnier and funnier.

    First our farmer from Idaho had his mental melt down, now the Story of "o" is having his own version of fanciful flights of delusion.

  40. The Story of "o" provides the litany of Israeli failings.

  41. eh, Bob's getting better (even if he does have a problem evaluating horseflesh.) :)

  42. And, recognizing the difference between a rainstorm, and a "day at the beach. :)

    Kind of a strange shortcoming for a farmer, though. :)

  43. .

    Nasser once said of Israel, We could throw 5 million people at Israel and it they all were killed? So what we still have 55 million left....

    Talk is cheap especially when it's geared to whack-jobs. And you'll notice he said "if they were all killed." Saying and doing are a lot different when the doing results in your body being transformed into a wall painting by a nuclear blast.

    These people might be dicks; they might be willing to pay others to kill themselves; but they are not going to commit suicide.

    I've supported a lot of what you said here on Israel over the past week or so WiO but now you are going off the deep end. I've suspected for some time that your interests lie more with Israel than with America. I may be wrong but it just appears that way.

    You talk about "America the Weak". Shit it's those spouting the neocon bullshit you now espouse that have made us weak, financially and militarily. Fucking morons demanding that US citizens give up their basic rights under the constitution so that dicks like Bush and Obama can make the world 'safe for democracy'.

    You say the Islamist are willing to sacrifice their people. What have our leaders been doing with our people over the past ten years?


  44. Rufus II said...
    Go away, wio. You're just making shit up, now.

    Havent made anything...

    Rat and Cedarford have a history of being anti-semites.

    Rat has bragged about his murder of "non-civilians" in Central AMerica.

    ANd you have ONE standard for Israel and no standards for anyone else.

    As for "making things up" try learning about Biden and housing in Jewish suburbs 1st before making things up...

    as for going away?

    most likely i will...

    Thank G-d the vast numbers of Americans think DIFFERENTLY about Israel than you, deuce, rat and cedarford.

    It's a fact, America stands with Israel, they get it...

    you 4 don't...

    I pity you....


  45. Quirk said...

    I've supported a lot of what you said here on Israel over the past week or so WiO but now you are going off the deep end. I've suspected for some time that your interests lie more with Israel than with America. I may be wrong but it just appears that way.

    it was called Sarcasm quick...

    SARCASM. Sarcasm is “a sharp, bitter, or cutting expression or remark; a bitter jibe or taunt.”

    DO I really advocate the nuking of every Islamic city?


    Do I think America is on purpose being weakened by Obama, YES....

    Do I think that Rat & cedarford are scum?


    Do I think Rufus is Amoral and cares about nothing but himself?


    Iran is the world's problem, this entire thread is scapegoating Israel (again)

    The war drums are beating by the Iranians and I do not think that the Iranians or the Arabs give a lick about losing a few MILLION in a war that could kill a few hundred thousand jews.

    They not rational.

    Nasser was not a 2 bit player and TRIED and failed to destroy Israel and it's people several times, cost him the sinai TWICE.

    The Iran iraq war saw the iranians throw HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of KIDS as human mine sweepers...

    Not rational from a western pov...

  46. My children, and wife.


    My Country




    way, way, way down the list


  47. Quirk: You talk about "America the Weak". Shit it's those spouting the neocon bullshit you now espouse that have made us weak, financially and militarily. Fucking morons demanding that US citizens give up their basic rights under the constitution so that dicks like Bush and Obama can make the world 'safe for democracy'.

    The only thing I have been spouting is that AMerica needs to get off OIL and bankrupt our enemies.

    I have been saying that for 4 decades...

    I would not waste ONE American life for yemen, iran, iraq or afganistan.

    The changing of the rules of engagement is criminal.

    To put our sons and daughters at war and NOT allow them to shoot back is terrible.

    But the war in the middle east was not started by the neo-cons.

    The moslems started it all in 1783.

  48. Rufus II said...
    My children, and wife.


    My Country




    way, way, way down the list


    Trust me Rufus, no one really wants or cares about your support of Israel.

    It's rather your constant attacking Israel and ignoring MANY MANY more that do AMerica real damage and you are silent...

    One standard for Israel and no standards for anyone else....

    Maybe if you bashed the real enemies of AMerica MORE and stopped inventing or repeating lies of the anti-semites you'd have any credibility.

  49. It is refreshing to read an honest assessment and debate about what could be a tragedy for Israel and a danger to the United States.

    This article captures the mood of more Israelis than you think. Keep up the good work.


    Israel government 'reckless and irresponsible' says ex-Mossad chief
    Meir Dagan attacks Binyamin Netanyahu for aggression towards Iran, and for failing to make any progress with the Palestinians

    Conal Urquhart in Jerusalem
    guardian.co.uk, Friday 3 June 2011 18.01 BST

    …"The former head of Israel's spy service has launched an unprecedented attack on the country's current government, describing it as "irresponsible and reckless", and has praised Arab attempts to reach an Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement.

    Meir Dagan stepped down as the head of Mossad six months ago but has gone on the offensive in a series of briefings with journalists and public appearances because he feels that Israel's security is being mismanaged by Binyamin Netanyahu, the prime minister, and Ehud Barak, the defence minister.

    One newspaper quotes him as saying that he, as head of Mossad, Yuval Diskin, the head of Sin Bet – the internal security agency, and Gabi Ashkenazi, the head of the army, could prevent Netanyahu and Barak from making mistakes but all three have left their positions and have been replaced by men chosen by the current government.

    "I decided to speak because when I was in office, Diskin, Ashkenazi and I could block any dangerous adventure. Now I am afraid that there is no one to stop Bibi [Netanyahu] and Barak," said Dagan.



  50. We're building hospitals in Afghanistan while 30,000,000+ Americans don't have adequate Medical Care.

    We have 50,000 young Americans guarding Iraq's Oil Fields (while they raise prices beyond what those soldiers' parents, and friends can pay,) when they could be home building ethanol refineries.

    We're giving tens of billions of dollars, every year, to countries like Egypt, and Pakistan (and, even China,) while 45 Million Americans are on Food Stamps.

    Now, some would have us get involved in a "religious" war between Iran, and Israel. Bullshit, time to go.

  51. Oh my…thanks Anon. I had no idea what a dangerous Jew-hating Israeli-basher, Mossad Chief, Meir Dagan was.

  52. Those are astonishing quotes, Anon.

    Truly enlightening. And, Scary as hell, also.

  53. Let's hope that enough "Americans without hyphens" get it and let Congress know that we have had enough.

  54. I promise you, Deuce, we're going to "get it."

    Just, maybe, not in the way you mean. :0

  55. The question is: How many years of "getting it" will it take before we "Get It?"

  56. as for going away?

    most likely i will...


    I'd much sooner rufus, who is always asking people to "go away", go away himself, than you. And I like rufus.

    The Great Imam Himself Khomeini when he got back from exile in Paris said so what if Iran burns we are muslims not Persians and it's little to sacrifice to the cause of turning the world islamic.
    Rational? Jesus! I think not. The argument about deterrence can't be won until after the fact so might as well not get hot about it but with minds like these I think we should have bombed Iran long ago.

    Obama is a military genius. Best since Eisenhower. Without a clue, and with out losing one American, he has succeeded in dividing and weakening a muzzie country. Anything that weakens or divides a muzzie country or islam itself should be our guiding star. We probably should have divided Iraq into three. And Afghanistan into at least two.

    Obama 2012!


    Rufus you do know Palin is against ethanol subsidies don't you? A mistake on her part, election wise.


  57. It is the consensus of the RFA (renewable fuels Assoc,) ACE (American Coalition for Ethanol,) Growth Energy, and the ethanol supporters in the Senate (Grassley, et al,) that it's time to start winding down the corn ethanol subsidies (in fact, they were reduced a year, ago, from $0.51/gal to $0.46/gal.)

    Those subsidies have done their job. A new industry, that LOWERED Gasoline prices by, at least, $0.89/gal last year, and created tens of thousands of American jobs has taken hold, and no longer needs taxpayer support.

    Many of us would like to see some help for "cellulosic" ethanol survive for awhile, but that's looking unlikely.

    So, no, that stance puts her squarely in the mainstream of conservative thought, with no apparent downside.

    Even Pawlenty, the world's largest ethanol supporter went to Iowa, and said the same thing.

  58. Remember, only about 2% of the population of Iowa are "farmers."

    Farming is about 3% of Iowa's ecoomy. Manufacturing is over 20%.

    "Insurance, and Business Services" are a larger component of Iowa's GDP than Farming.

  59. Pawlenty, and the ethanol supporters are using the term "phase out."

    That's different than McNuts going to Iowa in '08 and hammering them in the face with "Do Away With."

    McCain was trying to KILL the ethanol industry (as Coburn is, today.) Pawlenty, and, to some extent, Palin, I think, are saying, "okay, the industry is maturing, let's start taking away the tit."

    Big Dif.

  60. Tyrants always claim that they will suffer along with their people, regardless of the cost.

    Hitler killed himself in his burrow and Saddam was hiding in a hole with his stash of chocolate bars when he was captured.

    Both looked pretty spiffy in the day when they wore very fancy uniforms and received tribute from parades of soldiers and followers often brandishing guns and swords.

    It is nonsense that ordinary people unfortunate enough to be captured by these thugs don't mind going down with them or for them. To think or say otherwise shows blinded ignorance or a true racial bias.

  61. The killers always claim that those they killed thought life was cheap.

  62. (CNN) -- You know that great television commercial you saw, from the peanut-butter company that wants the world to know how much American troops in Afghanistan love eating their product?

    And the heartwarming magazine advertisement from the chewing-gum manufacturer that pointed out how many millions of packs of its gum were enjoyed by the U.S. soldiers who fought in Iraq?

    What? You don't remember those ads? You don't think they exist?

    You're right. Which is precisely the point.
    The two wars in which the United States became engaged after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, have often felt as if they have little to do with the daily lives of civilians at home. People in the nation's cities and towns carry on with their business; the volunteers in the military fight. Life on the home front goes on.

    It's rare to find an advertisement that makes a direct point of linking a company or manufacturer with America's wars.

  63. Let's face it; all most people ever want is for Somebody to keep the damned train on the tracks while we're busy trying to make a living.

  64. This might prove "amazing" to Non-Los Angelinos: Los Angeles Oil Production

  65. A guy reads some Sarah Palin emails: To Arianna Huffington: Dear Arianna, I'm afraid I won't have time to meet with you. Not this year. Not for the next 200 years. MIGHT I SUGGEST TINA FEY.

    To the attorney-general: Do your job. It doesn't matter if they're Democrat, or Republican. If they're corrupt, let's put them away.

    I think I'm starting to swoon.

  66. Rufus, you're falling in love, all the signs are there. This winter, you'll be standing out in the snow for that woman, like I was, and you'll be willing to take a bullet for her, as a bodyguard. She's got ya.


  67. Uh, ixnay on the ulletbay, igbay oybay.

    Vote for? Maybe.

    There's a difference betweeen "wanting in their pants," and wanting'em to be President. I'm still thinking about that one.

  68. Right now, I'd probably still vote for Romney.

  69. E-Mail From Mat

    Will be taken as God's Very Truth by vegetarians everywhere.

    I bet I've eaten maybe 6,000 chickens in my life and my liver function is 100% and all my recent blood work was normal. But, maybe it caused my prostate enlargement.

    I thought you'd gotten eaten by the bears in that wilderness area RV camping park.


  70. Iran threatens Israel with "destruction in 11 days"
    A strange and ominous report from a German publication.

    Here is my rough translation of "'Zerstörung in elf Tagen': Iran bedroht Israel," by Ulrich W. Sahm in n-tv.de, May 3 (thanks to The Total Collapse):

    Iran has for the first time announced the destruction of Israel with a concrete goal. Israeli television showed an interview with the Iranian chief of staff General Attalah Salihi. He announced the "destruction of Israel within eleven days."
    The Arabia expert Oded Granot explained: "Never have we heard so clear and open an announcement from Iran." President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has again and again announced the destruction of Israel in a general manner and as a political goal, but never so concretely and with a date, as did Salihi. Granot has not discovered why the destruction of Israel should happen in eleven days....

  71. I'll raise your religious nut job:

    Florida Pastor

    I also will predict that in one years ,we all will be dead.

  72. :)

    Oh, Man, What a Wonderful Website. How did you find That little jewel?

    I KNEW this was coming; I could just feel it:

    Pike did most of his work in his home in Little Rock, Arkansas.

    That explains bill, and the Hill, right? :)

    Great, great find. :)

  73. From this Pastor’s assessment its obvious he is uneducated and a racist with a missing brain. It is not Islam that is the major enemy, it is the Jesuit Order, Masons 33rd degree; 13 Illuminati families, and Political Zionist who are fake Jews living in Israel. Muslims are certainly an enemy of Christianity; but the CIA uses Muslim extremist to foment this war. The real enemy is the New Age Movement or the Universalist Movement, Calvinism, and the rest of the religions that are based on the Masonic/Luciferian order.

    That almost sounds as if it came from the mentation of rat, who once even went so far in his conspiracy mongering to speculate as to how the third building at the World Trade Center was brought down with planted explosives.


  74. I predict that in one hundred years we'll all be dead.