COLLECTIVE MADNESS


“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."

Thursday, July 03, 2008

Sieze the Moment in Colombia, Support Democracy in America



...She recalled how the day began, waking up at 4:30 a.m. and saying the rosary before being told by her guards that she and the other hostages were to be transferred to another location, where their detention was to continue.

"My heart broke because I did not want another transfer, another time, in captivity," she said.

But her guard, a woman, was unmoved and ordered Betancourt to cross a river to the pickup spot -- "very harsh, move, hurry up fast, as always," she said.

Soon, two white helicopters approached and several men approached the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia commanders who were overseeing their transfer, she said.

"They spoke with Commander Enrique and Cesar," she said of her captors. As she looked closer, she saw that the men from the helicopter were wearing shirts emblazoned with the likeness of Che Guevara, the Argentine hero of the Cuban revolution. "I thought, this is FARC," she said.

Placed in handcuffs, Betancourt got into the helicopter, still unaware of what was happening. "They closed the helicopter doors, the helicopter started flying and suddenly there was something happening," she said.

"Suddenly I saw the commander who, during four years, had been at the head of our team, who so many times was so cruel and humiliated me, and I saw him on the floor naked with bound eyes."
_________________________


Uribe pushes for peace after hostage release

Betancourt recalling freedom: "Helicopter almost fell because we started jumping"
Colombian military infiltrated FARC leadership, defense minister says»



BOGOTA, Colombia (CNN) -- Hours after a military operation that freed 15 hostages, Colombian President Alvaro Uribe on Wednesday night urged peace by calling on leftist rebels to release all hostages.

The Colombian military infiltrated the leftist Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia and deceived its members into giving up the hostages, including former Colombian presidential candidate Ingrid Betancourt, the country's defense ministry said.

The FARC, which has fought a long, complicated conflict with Colombia's government and right-wing paramilitary groups, has defended hostage-taking as a legitimate act of war and is believed to hold roughly 750 prisoners in the nation's remote jungles.

With Betancourt seated beside the podium from which he spoke, Uribe called the daring operation "an unbelievable military achievement and an honor to humanity."

No shots were fired in the operation.


The security forces who deceived the rebels "are entering the page of the heroes of humanity," Uribe said. Watch Uribe describe the operation to the nation »

Betancourt acknowledged she had been deceived by the mission.


Appearing healthy after being held hostage for six years in the jungle, she walked down from a Colombian military jet in Bogota hours earlier into the arms of her mother and later her husband.

"God carried out this miracle," she said. "This is a miracle because I know that all of you suffered with my family, my children, with me. This is a moment of pride for all of Colombia for such a perfect operation."

Along with Betancourt, three American contractors and 11 Colombian police and military were rescued in the operation. Late Wednesday, the Colombians were with their families and friends in Bogota, and the Americans -- Keith Stansell, Marc Gonsalves and Thomas Howes -- had arrived in the United States.

Betancourt was abducted February 23, 2002, after venturing into rebel territory in the south while campaigning for the Colombian presidency. Once one of Colombia's rising political stares, she was a reformer who fought Colombia's drug cartels as a congresswoman in the 1990s. Her platform called for a nation "free of corruption, violence and free of drugs." Watch Betancourt describe feeling guilty for being kidnapped »

Asked if she still wants to be president, Betancourt said, "If I continue with the dream to serve Colombia, yes, from the presidency, only God knows. At this moment, I just want to feel like another soldier, another soldier for Colombia, in the service of the fatherland."

She said she wanted to discuss her plans with her children and family before commiting to involvement in Colombian politics again, The Associated Press reported.

The former lawmaker said she had fallen gravely ill during her captivity, but that a nurse among the captors had diagnosed her illness and helped her recover.

She recalled how the day began, waking up at 4:30 a.m. and saying the rosary before being told by her guards that she and the other hostages were to be transferred to another location, where their detention was to continue.

"My heart broke because I did not want another transfer, another time, in captivity," she said.

But her guard, a woman, was unmoved and ordered Betancourt to cross a river to the pickup spot -- "very harsh, move, hurry up fast, as always," she said.

Soon, two white helicopters approached and several men approached the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia commanders who were overseeing their transfer, she said.

"They spoke with Commander Enrique and Cesar," she said of her captors. As she looked closer, she saw that the men from the helicopter were wearing shirts emblazoned with the likeness of Che Guevara, the Argentine hero of the Cuban revolution. "I thought, this is FARC," she said.

Placed in handcuffs, Betancourt got into the helicopter, still unaware of what was happening. "They closed the helicopter doors, the helicopter started flying and suddenly there was something happening," she said.

"Suddenly I saw the commander who, during four years, had been at the head of our team, who so many times was so cruel and humiliated me, and I saw him on the floor naked with bound eyes."

It was only then that the reality of liberation hit home.

"The chief of operations said, 'We are the national army, and you are all free,' and the helicopter almost fell because we started jumping, we screamed, we cried, we hugged. We couldn't believe it." Watch Betancourt call the operation 'perfect' »

Betancourt described the operation as "a miracle" and "a moment of pride" in Colombia.

Colombian Defense Minister Juan Manuel Santos joined the welcome, embracing Betancourt and others.

Earlier, he outlined the operation for the news media, saying the operation followed a length fact-finding effort to develop intelligence in the area.

The Colombian military had infiltrated the FARC leadership and arranged for the hostages to be taken to the south of the country, where they were to be picked up by two helicopters that the rebels believed were controlled by another group, Santos said. Two FARC rebels were also captured, he added.

The operation was "100 percent Colombian," he said.

Betancourt added that she hopes that FARC commanders would not punish the guards who were fooled. It was not their fault, she said; the operation was too perfect for them to detect the deceit.

Betancourt, who holds dual French-Colombian citizenship, said she would travel to France on Thursday to meet French President Nicolas Sarkozy, saying she probably is alive because of French efforts to secure her release, AP reported.

In a televised address after Betancourt's release, Sarkozy expressed happiness and thanks to the Colombian government and urged FARC members to "stop this absurd combat, this fight."

U.S. President Bush phoned Colombian President Alvaro Uribe to congratulate him on the operation.

William Brownfield, U.S. ambassador to Colombia », told CNN's "Larry King Live" that the two countries share intelligence but that the operation was "was overwhelmingly a Colombian operation."

Julio Cesar Betrago, a member of the national police who was kidnapped a decade ago and released with Betancourt, was overjoyed at being freed. "I want to thank our glorious army," he told reporters. "For me, it's like being born again."

The freed American hostages -- Stansell, Gonsalves and Howes -- arrived around midnight at Brook Army Medical Center in San Antonio, Texas aboard a U.S. military flight. They were working for Northrop Grumman Corp. as part of a U.S.-funded counternarcotics effort when their plane crashed in Colombia on February 13, 2003.

The rescue operation is the latest in a series of blows that has battered the FARC this year. Since March, three members of the rebel group's seven-member general secretariat have died or been killed, including the founder and leader of the rebels, Pedro Antonio Marin, also known as Manuel Marulanda Velez, and the group's second-in-command, Raul Reyes.

The military strike that killed Reyes led to the discovery of a treasure trove of intelligence from computers taken during a raid by Colombian military forces on a FARC camp inside Ecuador, a move that led President Rafael Correa to break diplomatic ties with Colombia.

The computers included reported links between Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez and the rebels.


Chavez has denied supporting the rebels and has changed his stance from calling for diplomatic recognition of them as legitimate combatants to calling for them to lay down their arms and end their military struggle.

In an interview with CNN en Espanol, Betancourt said she admires "what Chavez and Correa have done for all of us, but it is key that they support our democracy. In the same way they were elected in a democracy, they have to give the Colombians a chance to solve our problems by ourselves.



185 comments:

  1. Now McCain needs to go after Obama on this one and choke Obama on his political correctness to the hard left. Let me remind you of what Obama's position is on Colombia in April of this year:

    April 2, 2008, 10:29 am

    Obama Vows Opposition to Colombia Trade Deal
    Nick Timiraos reports from Philadelphia, Pa. on the presidential race.

    Sen. Barack Obama promised to stand firm in his opposition to the Colombia Free Trade Agreement on Wednesday–days after President Bush asked Congress to quickly pass the trade deal–in a speech to rally the union vote at the Pennsylvania AFL-CIO’s annual convention.

    The Illinois senator said he would oppose the Colombia Free Trade Agreement “because the violence against unions in Colombia would make a mockery of the very labor protections that we have insisted be included in these kinds of agreements.”

    Unions have lobbied hard against the measure in part because of concerns of the deaths of trade unionists in Colombia. Congress passed a similar free trade deal with Peru in December. Obama and rival Sen. Hillary Clinton supported the deal but were not present to vote on it.

    Obama told the union assembly that he was tired of unions “playing defense,” but he also looked to set himself apart from Clinton, who spoke before the convention yesterday and compared herself to the fictional Philadelphia fighter Rocky Balboa.
    “Let me tell you something, when it comes to finishing the fight, Rocky and I have a lot in common. I never quit. I never give up. And neither do the American people,” Clinton said Tuesday.

    Obama offered his own response this morning. “We all love Rocky. And last time I checked, I was the underdog in this state. So you know I like the Rocky story. But we got to remember that Rocky was a movie.”

    One point left unsaid by the candidates: Rocky lost."

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  2. Obama offered his own response this morning. “We all love Rocky. And last time I checked, I was the underdog in this state. So you know I like the Rocky story. But we got to remember that Rocky was a movie.”

    One point left unsaid by the candidates: Rocky lost."


    McCain is wearing himself out punching Obama in the arms a lot, while Obama is landing some roundhouse shots to the face.

    Some Republicans have also been baffled by McCain's campaign schedule, which appeared to be driven solely by fundraising. While Obama has focused on battleground states since clinching the nomination, McCain has spent a lot of time in money-rich states he is unlikely to win: California, New York, New Jersey and Massachusetts.

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  3. "Obama told the union assembly that he was tired of unions “playing defense,...”

    The young firebrand union organizer firin' up the crowd...

    His constituency - unions, trial lawyers, prochoice groups, enviros and the GLBT "community."

    An assorted group of minorities; the usual suspects. The question is whether these groups represent the main stream or the hard left of the Democrat party.

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  4. The question with regard to Colombia is will Obama's antipathy to the Free Trade Agreement translate to an antipathy toward helping them fight the drug war and FARC.

    When success in Colombia and Iraq seems to be so close at hand, will a President Obama suddenly disengage?

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  5. That's what I'm afraid of whit. All that effort, and the fate of it put in Obama's hands. I can't believe the country might actually do that.

    What a wonderful story that rescue story is! And that Betancourt, whom I know zero about, comes over as such a gracious person, asking FARC to go easy on her guards.

    If Mexico is on the verge of a revolution, as Rat says, and Chavez thrumping around, and Cuba still Castroite, Colombia seems very important. A successful Colombia, an example to be followed.

    Alas, I don't see McCain gathering many votes out of it as most people don't care, or if they do probably care the wrong way. I've been reading that Obama has made some inroads with the Catholic voters, though it's hard to see how, supporting infanticide. Other issues are higher on the list the article said, this year, for many Catholics.

    Karl Rove over at RCP, says the money advantage Obama has isn't as much as might be thought, the Republican National Committee outscoring the dems by a wide margin right now.

    Colombia is important. If it went the other way, with Venezuela, Cuba, maybe Mexico down the road, well, things would look tough for us.

    Somehow they inserted an order in there in the command chain for this transfer, and pulled it off. Ought to make a good movie one of these days, if done right. High drama, danger, good guys win, happy ending.

    When the election comes along, and news looks better in Iraq, then the gas prices soar, the economy trembles, part of the mortgage industry collapses, and even Starbucks closes. The gods seem ticked at the Republicans, or some of the gods do right now, but for what, and what do the gods have in mind? The gods may think our alleged hubris is deserving of nemesis, but they're wrong, we have been doing a lot of good around lately.

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  6. Obama is now the change candidate by virtue of being the Democrat. The challenges he now faces are: (1) Passing the "one of us" test--whether the concern is that he's a Sharpton-esque race-man, or a Muslim plant, or an anti-American radical, or whatever. (2) Proving he'll keep the country safe. McCain has to prevent Obama from clearing a minimal threshold; otherwise Obama wins.

    Against this backdrop, the typical-pol charge isn't just ineffective; it's counter-productive. Recall what McCain is alleging--that Obama will shift any position or abandon any principle if there's an advantage to be gained from it. Well, if someone is prepared to take any position to succeed politically, then he's probably not going to pursue some crazy out-of-the-mainstream policy, even if it's one he privately supports. He'll do what politicians always do, which is consult polls and follow public opinion. If Obama's biggest problem is that he's not typical enough, then the McCain campaign is helping him solve it.

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  7. hmph--Doug's picture of Greeny Dream of our Future in an earlier thread was Betancourt.

    Also, I was going to add, it doesn't appear Obama's campaign to register more black voters will help him much, being pretty much maxed out, and if not, it's in areas where it wouldn't make much difference anyway.

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  8. Had Hillary somehow managed to convince voters he was no different than any other calculating, self-serving politician--

    hehehe

    I like that from your article, T. A politician that fails to convince the voters that her opponent is just another calculating, self-serving politician like herself doesn't deserve to float, in this day and age.

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  9. So far, the rabid Kos Kids are the best reason to vote McCain. I really wish there was more than that.

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  10. "To all of you Colombians, for all of you French who have been with us, that accompanied us in the world, that helped us to remain alive, that helped the world to know what was going on: thank you,"

    Ingrid Betancourt, speaking on 2 July 2008 (source AFP)

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  12. The FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) was created in the 1960s as an armed Communist peasant army which was fighting for land reforms in Colombia. The movement now obtains most of its funding from kidnaps carried out for ransom and cocaine smuggling.

    He who uses cocaine, supports these scum. Obama admittedly used cocaine. I am sure his sixties era supporters were avid land reform fans. Today Obama is against free trade with Colombia because US labor unions object. (no change there).They use the excuse of labor leaders being killed in Colombia. They ignore the facts that labor unions in Colombia are controlled by the communists and have wide interests that go beyond the individual concerns of worker and employer.

    The best solution to reducing labor violence in Colombia is to enhance the power and standing of the middle class. Dogma will not allow the Democrats to do that.

    US labor unions control Obama and the Democrats and the old line patriotic anti-communist labor leaders are gone..

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  13. To be fair to her mat, No Americans would have been visible to her in the rescue effort. I can assume that US intelligence gathering and back-up logistical support stood behind the Colombian military and police.

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  16. If US agents helped save her ass and are celebrating her release, she should have been briefed on that fact, and thanked these US agents for their support.

    Thu Jul 03, 07:31:00 AM EDT

    WTF? NO.

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  17. Hey, he supports the downfall of GM.
    ...might as well be consistent.

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  18. Yeah, Al-Bob, you're the first one to note the picture, no-one noted the first post on the hostage affair on the other thread.
    Do people only read 'Rat and J's posts here?
    ;-)

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  19. "In an interview with CNN en Espanol, Betancourt said she admires "what Chavez and Correa have done for all of us"
    ---
    wtf is up w/THAT?

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  20. Success has many fathers,
    failure is an orphan.

    The Colombians did not credit US, we did.

    Colombian Defense Minister Juan Manuel Santos joined the welcome, embracing Betancourt and others.
    ...
    The operation was "100 percent Colombian," he said.


    But he must be lying, too.

    A small footprint country team, doing what 160,000 troops in Iraq and 16,000 troops in Afghanistan cannot do, work with the natives to achieve success, for and by those natives.

    FARC does seem to be collapsing, wonder who'll control the drug trade whn their leadership is gone?

    trish did mention that some of that country team had been in Panama, in the early 80s, bet they all speak Spanish, any takers?

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  21. When success in Colombia and Iraq seems to be so close at hand, will a President Obama suddenly disengage?

    Thu Jul 03, 04:36:00 AM EDT

    Let me tell you something. Obama is going to appoint a special envoy to the Americas. That envoy is going to be Bill Richardson. Richardson refers to the killing of FARC members and leaders as "assassinations." He is a fellow traveler with the nutjob next door. NOBODY down here is kidding themselves about what an Obama administration will mean.

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  22. Brownfield is absolutely candid. That operation was 100 percent Colombian.

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  23. Just as the prison in Afghanistan was 100% Afghani?

    Seems both of the scenarios outlined, last thread, are valid.

    It is good news, that the hostages were freed, the FARC commanders captured.

    If Richardson becomes the envoy, good thing the Colombians have internalized their fight and are not dependent upon US, for success.

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  24. You are one serious motherfucker, Rat.

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  25. Doug, Betancourt's politics are...Betancourt's politics.

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  26. Is the concept "need to know" gone or does everyone have to write a book and end up on Oprah? I have some friends who keep their mouths shut after thirty years and no one ever told them they had to do so.

    I find it a good practice in life.

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  27. ...a "serious motherfucker"...is that a good thing or a bad thing?

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  29. "Is the concept 'need to know' gone or does everyone have to write a book and end up on Oprah?"

    Trish wishes she could write a book.

    Brownfield actually addressed this yesterday. It was THE fear going into this.






    No. Serious motherfucker is not a good thing.

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  30. "Hey, he supports the downfall of GM."

    Better believe it. Maybe then we get some traction in getting an American auto company with some real engineering talents.

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  31. must be a generational thing, I knew a bad motherfucker was someone you wanted on your team, being somewhat nuanced...

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  32. What is the bet the Chinese are going to pour some very serious mutherfucking chemicals in that water:

    Beijing promises no algae blooms in Games waters
    03 Jul 2008 13:27:20 GMT
    Source: Reuters

    BEIJING, July 3 (Reuters) - Beijing on Thursday pledged that an embarrassing outbreak of algae that has invaded Olympic co-host city Qingdao's sailing venue would not be repeated in any of the capital's bodies of water.
    China has thrown 10,000 people and 1,200 vessels into the fight to clean up a huge algae bloom that has turned large swathes of Qingdao's offshore waters green and encroached on a third of Olympic sailing waters.
    Bi Xiaogang, deputy director of the Beijing Water Authority, said officials had studied and adopted measures to prevent algae outbreaks in preparation for the Games for a number of years.
    "I can responsibly say that all of the waters at Olympic venues will not develop algae outbreaks, during and after the Games," Bi said.

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  33. "I can responsibly say that all of the waters at Olympic venues will not develop algae outbreaks, during and after the Games," Bi said.

    There will still be algae blooms, but there just won't be any water. Hence no algae blooms in the "waters"

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  34. If YOU want him on your team, well, you have him.

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  35. *keeps mouth shut* and slowly removes fingers from keyboard...keeps one on scroll wheel though....other hand stays close to tumbler containing rum and ice.

    Deuce, are there any new Olympic playing fields upstream from the bloom?

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  37. Act


    But one other thing was on display in this instance: decisiveness. After the last preparations have been made and the final contingencies prepared for, there always remains the last bit of irreducible risk.

    Decisiveness, in the face of risk, missing in action in U.S.

    At every level of government - fear of liability grinds the wheels to a halt.

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  38. Bite me, slade.





    Jesus H. Christ, is there anyone willing to acknowledge and applaud without reservation this endeavor?

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  39. ahem....Let us not forget the Carter hostage rescue.

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  41. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  42. 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid

    Fuel Economy:
    40 Miles per Gallon (City)
    45 Miles per Gallon (Highway)

    Geez, maybe give this car a green car of the millennium award?

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  43. We had an 80's something Chevette w/a mitsubishi diesel, got 40 something mpg.

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  44. No batteries to buy and dispose of.

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  45. RWE said...

    During the Reagan Administration, the President was visiting a bakery in the Midwest when they took him aside and advised him that that they had identified that terrorists who had hijacked the cruise ship Achille Lauro and killed a wheelchair-bound American were about to board an airliner. Assets were in place to intercept the aircraft. Did the President want to give the Go order?

    There, among the pots and pans of the bakery, President Reagan though for a moment and then said “Yes.”

    Apparently the men there recalled Jimmy Carter, who was plugged into the command network for the attempted rescue of the American hostages in Iran. And before that, Richard Nixon, who was known to issue orders without informing the Joint Chiefs. And before that, Johnson, who bragged that “The Air Force can’t bomb an outhouse in Vietnam without my specific permission.”

    So they said “Okay Mr. President, we have to get you to a command center so that you can monitor this operation.”

    Reagan replied “Hey! I can’t fly an airplane or command a ship. Why do you need me? Let me know how it comes out.”

    Decisiveness, again. And Decisiveness about knowing when to keep your hands off, too.

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  46. Trish,
    ...uh, I posted it two or three threads back.
    Ignored by the EB litterati.

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  47. I'm with you Trish!

    Hey bar-mates I just got a line on a really good deal on fresh green superfood "supplements" from China....anybody want in? Progressive Yuppies and hippie chicks will eat this stuff up like the world is getting hotter.

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  48. The only thing wrong w/US automakers is 70's era Union Contracts.
    ...the kind the Messianic Change Agent wants to bring to all.

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  50. Doug,

    Go to a Honda dealership, sit in and drive a new Honda Accord, and then go and compare with anything at a GM or Ford dealership, and you'll understand the difference in engineering, not to speak of anything regards fuel economy.

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  51. The 2008 Malibu

    The new model has won critical praise from newspapers, magazines and other media outlets, with The New York Times referring to it as being "like a super Accord, but from GM" and Car and Driver magazine declaring, "Camry, Beware."

    It also garnered high praise from MotorTrend magazine, being rated higher than the Honda Accord in the magazine's 2008 Car of The Year competition.

    Kelly Blue Book has named it the "2008 best redesigned vehicle". [5] Initial sales results have been positive with the Malibu joining the Cadillac CTS and Buick Enclave on a list of GM vehicles whose sales have exceeded production.

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  52. Doug,

    They did a good job on the 2008 Malibu. It would have been a great car 10-20 years ago. But that's not where the market is at today. Not in Canada. Not in Latin America. Not in Europe. Not in Japan. Not in China. Not in India. And very soon not in the US.

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  53. The 2008 Chevy Malibu is a good effort, no doubt about that. But the 2008 Chevy Malibu is not better than the 2008 Honda Accord, not by a long shot. You don't believe me, go and check out both. I did. My girlfriend made me. Anyway, it will be a while before people trust GM cars for their reliability, and in the meantime the market space the Chevy Malibu competes in becomes that of a luxury car.

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  54. Sure thing Trish.

    If I thought it would do any good, I would.

    The Colombian rescue was a very smooth move. Rare and Well done.

    But you're right in a larger sense. It takes force of personality, not 4-page memos.

    So you go, girl.

    You go.

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  55. If it were all about me, of course, it wouldn't matter. Much.

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  56. "The Colombian rescue was a very smooth move."

    Wow.

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  57. I think you and sinless ought to go bowling.

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  58. Sinless will, of course, get to do that on his own.

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  59. Yeah. Wow. What fucking universe are you living in that an operation like that is simply a "smooth move"?

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  60. You know, Trish, your radar for psychological hypocrisy and manipulation is very keen.

    Having said that.

    Fuck off.

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  61. Maybe the same universe where Peak Oil is just a kerfluffle that will work itself out when the media finds another crisis.

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  62. I guess we can agree on that.

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  64. Humor at inappropriate times is not funny.**

    I deleted the comment.

    **which is why Jon Stewart is getting on my nerves.

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  65. Jesus H. Christ, is there anyone willing to acknowledge and applaud without reservation this endeavor?


    Ido, Trish, but I'm late now and gotta run.

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  67. Do not understand why you see a difference, trish.

    I was all complimentary of the Colombians and their operation.
    It was good.
    No shots fired.
    Couple of FARC headmen captured.

    But it was a 100% Colombian Op
    0% US involvement, or Mr Santos has the credibilty of Thad Cochran, Republican US Senator, simply a liar. As per Maverick McCain.

    Hate to think such a good op, was engineered by a Colombian liar.

    The same folk that claim credit for, "we", re: that Colombian op, deny any culpability in the Afghan prison break. Where 400 or so enemey combatants made an escape.
    There, with thousands more troops in place, "we" had nothing to do with it.

    Not with the physical security nor the lack of intel nor the training of the allied Afghani.

    Only claim credit for the collective when there is suuccess or victory, deny responsibilty for all failures.
    Plausable deniabilty is always engaged, along with a good case of CYA.

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  68. Funny it would come down to this, Rat.

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  69. Well, not really FUNNY, but you know what I mean.

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  70. The model in Colombia should have been replicated in Iraq and Afghanistan, but it was not.

    We went big, instead.
    We have, to date, failed to achieve US goals in either locale.

    Whereas we have, in Colombia.

    Fancy that.
    Where the US has achieved success, allowing the natives to stand alone, you wish to claim credit for active particpation.


    Where we are actively engaged, as in Afghanistan, with ground troops the set backs proliferate.
    US casualties mount.

    Which is what you always said to doug and I about ground troops into Pakistan. They were not suitable to the task.

    There in lays the lesson, but you've been hittin' the free booze a bit hard, lately, and just can't see the forest for the trees.

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  71. I don't bowl.

    I did hit six home runs in two games off the Brooking's softball team, however.

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  73. Mat:
    Your 9:44 comment is getting periously close to a line.

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  74. A little more civility is definitely in order. We don't want any free-for -alls destroying the bar, do we?

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  75. My daughter was threatened and nobody said shit.

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  76. Not a problem, Whit. I'll take those down.

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  77. Fuck, dear host welcomed him back.

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  78. Doug:
    I noticed your "Greenie of the Future link" Betancourt but I thought you had made a mistake of some sort. Didn't think it was worth saying anything about.

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  79. Who was that Trish?

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  80. I thought she said she had son.

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  81. And that the US gov doesn't pay her bills.

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  82. I have a son. He is probably one of the two greatest human beings on the face of the earth.

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  83. Iran is getting nervous. My sense is that they now understand that their bluff has been called.

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  84. What's so difficult about laying off negative personal stuff and sticking to politics. If I wanted drama I'd have joined a sorority.

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  85. Point was, Whit, first post on Hostage release was ignored.
    I want my place in the brawl recognized.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Sinless, I bet you wish you could join a sorority...:)

    ReplyDelete
  87. 'Rat, however gets the Burma Shave Award for Serial one-word posts.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Politics is personal, is it not?

    ReplyDelete
  89. Judging by his politics, I'd bet Ash drives a rainbow colored van, made of hemp, with peace signs all over the windows and windshield, but I don't feel the need to bring that up every week.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Politics is personal, but not all personal is politics.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Obama wants to keep Gates as Sec of Defense.

    ReplyDelete
  92. "The lesson is not to let your ego or grudges get in the way of hiring absolutely the best people." So he says.

    ReplyDelete
  93. Right,
    Neither he nor the adorable Michelle EVER do that.

    ReplyDelete
  94. Mat thinks a rainbow colored van, made of hemp, should be car of the year.

    ReplyDelete
  95. Off-topic: Trish, you ever get some of that patriotic ice cream they put out during lunch prior to July 4th?

    Good stuff. Altogether hard to imagine a better place to celebrate.

    ReplyDelete
  96. Michelle is probably one of the two greatest human beings on the face of the earth.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Yeah, the whole van thing, that was a joke.

    Just in case Ash's watching on his Cuban-made PC.

    ReplyDelete
  98. And whit, though I hear the pledgeship's much nicer, I think I would rather drive a stake through my heart, slowly.

    ReplyDelete
  99. Ashley is probably in Dubai trying to hustle an Arab oil tick into adding her to his collection.

    ReplyDelete
  100. I'm sorry, where are, you sinlless?

    ReplyDelete
  101. Sinless is Cutler!
    Now APOLOGIZE!

    ReplyDelete
  102. Sorry, thot I read "who"
    Time for coffee.

    ReplyDelete
  103. And you dare disagree with me.

    ReplyDelete
  104. It may have been a late night but you were not behind this.

    ReplyDelete
  105. I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

    ReplyDelete
  106. This is the weirdest damn thread yet.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Barkeep!
    Make Trish write in complete, understandable English, and Ban Cutler if he keeps imitating her.

    ReplyDelete
  108. I never said I had anything to do with Colombia, I said I enjoyed celebrating July 4th at the DIAC, and asked if you'd ever had the red, white, and blue ice cream they put out.

    ReplyDelete
  109. I said I had the first post on the subject, so am immune to criticism of not being a patriot like big John.

    ReplyDelete
  110. But, of course, Lesley is the Supreme Patriot.

    ReplyDelete
  111. But you did, cutler. You were against it.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Something tells me this is going to be another one of those times I have to defend myself from projections of things that weren't said.

    ReplyDelete
  113. As Obama continues to "grow" and "evolve" his positions naturally do, too.

    "I've always said that the pace of withdrawal would be dictated by the safety and security of our troops and the need to maintain stability. That assessment has not changed," he said. "And when I go to Iraq and have a chance to talk to some of the commanders on the ground, I'm sure I'll have more information and will continue to refine my policies." [snip]
    "My 16-month timeline, if you examine everything that I've said, was always premised on making sure that our troops were safe," he said. "I said that based on the information that we had received from our commanders that one to two brigades a month could be pulled out safely, from a logistical perspective. My guiding approach continues to be that we've got to make sure that our troops are safe and that Iraq is stable."

    He added, "I'm going to continue to gather information to find out whether those conditions still hold."


    Notice that when a fellow Republican, like Thad Cochran tells a tale that Maverick disapproves of, he strikes right back. Denying the incident ever happened, calls Cochran a liar by doing so.

    But let Wes Clark or Obama himself slap his ass, Maverick turns the other cheek.
    Maverick only fires on friendlies.

    ReplyDelete
  114. Well, you better get started.

    ReplyDelete
  115. "But let Wes Clark or Obama himself slap his ass, Maverick turns the other cheek.
    Maverick only fires on friendlies.
    "
    ---
    He's too old to change.
    Or mad.
    Or both.

    ReplyDelete
  116. cutler, you're the one who's emmbarassd.

    I wouldn't be. Christ, would I want that job if I were mortified by it?

    ReplyDelete
  117. I thinking of making "last call" on this thread. :o

    Deuce, we better get a trainload of cabs over here.

    ReplyDelete
  118. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  119. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  120. " I learned of the safehouse after some friends helped the chicken farmers pluck the birds, and they were paid in a sackful of chicken heads and chicken feet; they gave us some and we ate stewed chicken heads and feet for weeks. So when it got raided, we watched the roads.

    Even sitting in the hot, high grass was a great change from the warrens of the inner city, with their overhanging roofs and crazy streets. There had been a deal table in the poultry shed, and the story was that the guys had the trick of mixing seething water with instant coffee which bubbled up to produce a foam. Guests would be gulled into thinking they were being served coffee with milk. The impression lasted until you actually tried to drink it. Then the vision of coffee with milk passed, and there was only the deal table and the clucking of chickens.

    The raid in retrospect, was probably the work of a mole.
    "

    ReplyDelete
  121. Doug, just but out on this. It had to do with a half-joke on email.

    ReplyDelete
  122. The idea of confining it exclusively to e-mail comes to mind.

    ReplyDelete
  123. Touche, I guess I'll delete it and do so.

    ReplyDelete
  124. Well, looks like I wound up in the sorority house, after all.

    Where're my brownies?

    ReplyDelete
  125. Check email, btw, when you've got the time, Trish.

    ReplyDelete
  126. For the still lucid among us, here's a story about a hell of a mess in Florida.

    Buffet agrees to buy hurricane bonds.

    This is lunacy. Let one big hurricane hit Florida and that's all folks. The real estate market will never recover and good 'ol Florida will empty out as quickly as it filled.

    The problem is government led by dunderhead Charlie Crist, the populist. It has interfered in the market and now we're screwed.

    ReplyDelete
  127. A headline the other day said ins companies were raising rates due to Global Warming.

    ReplyDelete
  128. I heard on the radio that the evidence is mounting that global warming is anthropogenic. Also, "there is proof" global warming caused the midwestern floods by changing the flow of the jetstream.

    Of course, I never did hear the evidence. Only the BS.
    *******************
    If a big one hits Florida and Buffet forks out the 4 billion for the bonds, the interest will be nearly $24 million per month for 30 years.

    ReplyDelete
  129. Cauasation is the issue. These folks - if serious and confident about their science - should be able to explain it ...

    But so far ... it's just "evidence."

    As for the rest of it.

    Wow.

    Barkeep, Screw-you-drivers for everybody.

    ReplyDelete
  130. Make that Double Screw Yous.

    ReplyDelete
  131. Sad day at BlackRock Doug.

    A heart-rending rescue unpacked by what ...

    Bitter disputes about who supported what and who got credit.

    Rat is right in a sense.

    Western world is not executing.

    I think we will - Sleeping Dragons and such.

    But I wonder about the time frame.

    But I've been negative for about six months. It always turns around.

    Or not.

    ReplyDelete
  132. Consider yourself lucky you weren't Pvt. Eddie Slovik
    ---
    Lindy, Willow Run, and etc

    Henry Ford, who himself had been labeled anti-Semitic and pro-German, contacted Lindbergh and invited him to work at his Willow Run B-24 bomber factory. This time the aviator accepted Ford's offer. The B-24 was being refitted for mass production. Lindbergh worked on the redesign of the nose and the gun mount.

    Lindbergh and Col. Norman Schwarzkopf, head of New Jersey State Police, and father of Persian Gulf Commander 'Stormin Norman' Schwarzkopf. Schwarzkopf headed the investigation into the Lindbergh baby kidnapping.

    While working at the plant he was impressed by the high quality of work produced by the women workers and their high moral character, compared to some of the male employees. At its peak in 1943, the plant had 42,331 workers and by 1944, 650 B-24 bombers were rolling off the line every month.

    ---
    "Detroit thought so little of Lindy," Bullard concluded, "that it had the house he was born in torn down for urban renewal in 1973."

    His home on Maui is also now in pieces on a different property.
    The govt did not want to spend the small amount of money it would have taken to preserve it.

    ReplyDelete
  133. Martin said:

    You want some definitive analysis? Here it comes:http://www.economist.com/blogs/certainideasofeurope/2008/07/how_dare_the_colombians_rescue.cfmYes, Sarkozy freed her by suckong up to Chavez.This is waht we in Europe have to live with.

    ReplyDelete
  134. "How dare the Colombians rescue Ingrid Betancourt?"

    Man, that's as bad as Terrorita and all us a-holes combined!

    ReplyDelete
  135. And yet men routinely score higher than women on IQ tests.

    So I'm informed.

    ReplyDelete
  136. Obviously not based on empirical evidence.

    ReplyDelete
  137. "And yet men routinely score higher than women on IQ tests."
    ---
    Whaddaya expect out of a Nazi Symp?

    Of his tenure at Willow Run, Lindbergh later wrote,

    "I would have viewed the Willow Run bomber production line as a marvelous feat of engineering. I would have felt proud of even the small part I had in bringing it into being.

    Now, it seemed a terrible giant's womb, growling, clanging, giving birth to robots which were killing people by the thousands each day as they destroyed the culture of Europe....This was a temple of the god of science at which we moderns worshiped....Here I watched a steel door lift and an airplane roll outside; while, in reality, the walls of a cathedral fell and children died."

    ReplyDelete
  138. Man, Ash could pick up a few pointers reading Lindy.

    ReplyDelete
  139. Teresita,

    Thanks for the explanation on the Sonics. Sad.

    ReplyDelete
  140. What's the point Doug?

    Man's hubris to achieve a higher calling?

    By my reckoning humanity is either a century away from war-free existence or several hundreds of centuries away as we cycle through mistakes that fail to take (A Canticle for Leibowitz by Miller).

    Either we do it now or later.

    ReplyDelete
  141. I don't think fangs are Bob's environment.

    None of us with half a brain would still be here.

    Whit, my limo please.

    ReplyDelete
  142. Barkeep =

    a double screw-you for the road.

    ReplyDelete
  143. I just hope Bob wasn't listening to Jimbo Cramer:

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_nkZ3eHeXlc

    ReplyDelete
  144. Kudlow:

    "Sen. Obama is opposed to drilling. Opposed to nuclear. Opposed to coal. He and Harry Reid believe wind, solar, and ethanol are the answers. They’re not. It’s doubtful even at full development and commercialization that these alternative technologies will ever power more than 10 percent of our energy needs. We should go down this road as part of a full energy portfolio. But let’s not kid ourselves: These sources alone will never be sufficient."

    ==

    Larry,

    All I can do is shake my head:

    Ben-Eliezer proposes two-part renewable-energy plan for Negev
    Jul. 3, 2008
    Bloomberg ,
    THE JERUSALEM POST

    National Infrastructures Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer will ask the government to designate the Negev and Arava regions as preferred areas for renewable-energy development and approve a plan for general energy efficiency to reduce reliance on traditional sources of supply.

    "Israel must develop efficient and sustainable production systems that increase the use of renewable energy," Ben-Eliezer said in an e-mailed copy of a speech he gave Wednesday at a conference in Dimona.

    Israel plans to cut electricity consumption 20 percent by 2020 by improving efficiency. The government has set up a committee to recommend ways to reduce annual demand by about 16 million kilowatt-hours by the end of the next decade.

    Ben-Eliezer will ask the cabinet to approve the construction of one new solar station a year in the South for the next 20 years as part of a proposal that includes tax incentives, land accessibility and government aid for pilot projects, he said.

    Israel imports all its fossil fuel, with the exception of natural gas from reserves it has developed off the Mediterranean coast since 1999. While the country has nuclear research facilities, it doesn't have any atomic power plants.

    .
    .

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1214726196052&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

    ReplyDelete
  145. My first order reaction, Mat, is that this market just sucks.

    Green Monkey Dicks.

    I will listen to the clip tomorrow with ...

    a clearer mind.

    In the mean time, I will say this market just

    sucks.

    ReplyDelete
  146. The Israeli National Infrastructures Ministry has been working towards delivering 2,000 megawatts of renewable energy by the year 2020. Central to this promise has been a planned 250MW solar power station near Ashalim in the western Negev desert. The Israeli Government has officially called for tenders from energy companies with the understanding that the power plant will be Build-Operate-Transfer (BOT). This means that the winning bidder will build the power plant, operate it for the period of the licence and then transfer the full ownership back to the state once the licensing period is over.

    The tenders committee is hoping to complete the entire tender process by the fourth quarter of 2008. Israeli Minister of National Infrastructures Benjamin Ben-Eliezer has gone to great pains to emphasise that the project development tender is open to foreign as well as local companies.

    ==

    'By 2020, fuel oil and diesel won't be used in Israel'
    Nov. 26, 2007
    Ehud Zion Waldoks ,
    THE JERUSALEM POST

    National Infrastructures Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer (Labor) revealed on Monday that his ministry would push for the Negev to be declared a national priority area for creating alternative energy in the near future.

    "In the near future, we will propose a government decision to declare the Negev a national priority area for creating alternative energy, and I am considering declaring the Jerusalem area a national priority area for creating alternative energy as well. The issue is being discussed in a committee headed by the director-general of the National Infrastructures Ministry," Ben-Eliezer told the Knesset Internal Affairs and Environment Committee.

    "In less than 40 years, the oil will disappear and in 60 years the natural gas sources will also disappear. Therefore, renewable energy is at the top of our agenda. By 2020, fuel oil and diesel oil won't be used in Israel," he added.

    ReplyDelete
  147. 2,000 megawatts is enough power for 1,600,000 homes (or 6.4 million people).

    ReplyDelete
  148. In related news, Israel's Public Utilities Authority approved a plan Monday to buy electricity, at NIS 2.01 per kilowatt, from individuals and companies who install a photovoltaic (PV) solar panel system on their roofs. Israel thus joins a growing list of countries, including Germany, the US, Japan and Spain, that have approved such solar "feed-in tariffs".

    "Ex-VC" Tali Aben explains the economics of the feed-in tariff, observing that those who install solar PV systems are now set to reap a 14% internal rate of return on their investment over a 20 year period.

    ReplyDelete
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