COLLECTIVE MADNESS


“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by "a network of small complicated rules" might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called 'hard despotism') in the sense that it is not obvious to the people."

Saturday, July 19, 2008

Israel Disgraced, the Samir Qantar Release

"The thing I need most now is privacy. In 2004, when I was supposed to be freed, I bought a house, 40 metres from the beach, in Beirut. The house is waiting. I want to be alone. I want to have my own key, so that I can come and go whenever I please, to drink coffee on the balcony, to smoke a cigarette, to go down and swim in the sea and go jet skiing." -Samir Qantar

Chen Kotes-Bar
The Guardian, Saturday July 19, 2008
'The girl screamed. I don't remember anything else'

Samir Qantar, feted as a hero of the resistance in his native Lebanon this week, was reviled as a child-murdering monster in Israel, which freed him in exchange for the bodies of two soldiers killed by Hizbullah in the raid that triggered the 2006 war. Over four years Chen Kotes-Bar, an Israeli journalist and daughter of an Auschwitz survivor, spoke to prisoner 562885 ... the man behind a brutal terrorist act that is seared into her country's consciousness. This is an account of their extraordinary conversations

Our meetings, which began in February 2004, took place in the prison library - just the two of us, unaccompanied. Qantar spoke to me in Hebrew. He brought tea and biscuits, and he chain-smoked. Over the 29 years he spent in Israeli jails, I was the first and only Jewish Israeli woman he met and spoke to face to face.

I told him about my father, who survived Auschwitz, and about my five-year-old son. Each time I wrap him in a towel after his bath, I told Qantar, I think of Danny Haran and his daughter Einat. About the terror attack in Nahariya.

The girl's death was a tragic incident, answered Qantar. He insisted that he had not killed her. What does it matter, I told him, you shot at them. If you had not landed on the beach at Nahariya in your rubber dinghy, Einat Haran would still be alive. He never expressed any remorse.

Qantar was born in the village of Abiya, on Mount Lebanon. "My father worked in Saudi Arabia as a chef for Albir Avila, the international hotel chain. He was a well-known chef, in high demand. He used to come home once every two months, always laden with gifts like clothes and perfumes.

"My mother is a homemaker with a very strong personality. When she decides something, that's it - you can never change her mind. My family is Druze, secular and well off. We are three brothers and five sisters. We have a beautiful house that overlooks Beirut, with a view of the airport from the balcony. Occasionally my father took me to Beirut. When I saw the refugee camps, I asked my father what they were. He explained to me, 'Son, those are Palestinians. The Israelis drove them out of their country, and they're not allowed to return."

At the age of 13, Qantar persuaded the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine to allow him to enlist. "Each afternoon at 5, a car would collect me and take me to the training camp. That's where I shot a gun for the first time - a Kalashnikov. It was fantastic."

Three years later, having spent 11 months in a Jordanian prison following a failed terror operation, Qantar was given leadership of a cell and assigned to attack Nahariya, an Israeli coastal town located about 10km south of Lebanon.

During that notoriously brutal attack, Qantar, then 16, dragged 32-year-old Danny Haran and his four-year-old daughter, Einat, from their apartment to the nearby beach. He killed Haran by shooting him in the back and then drowning him, while Einat watched. According to forensic evidence and eyewitness court testimony, Qantar then killed the girl by smashing her skull against the rocks with the butt of his rifle. Her mother, Smadar, hid with two-year-old Yael, but accidentally smothered her to death while trying to silence the toddler's cries. The Nahariya attack is considered the most brutal in Israel's history. It is seared on the collective Israeli consciousness.

"We set out on the rubber dinghy at 10pm on April 21 1979. The sea was stormy and it was cold. The journey to Nahariya took about four hours, because we travelled slowly to avoid making noise."

Upon landing on the beach in Nahariya, Qantar and his comrades followed instructions issued in Beirut - which included finding a police officer and killing him. They knocked on the door of a private house and called out in Arabic via the intercom, frightening the inhabitants into calling the police. They killed officer Eliyahu Shachar in a hail of bullets. Qantar boasts that he alone shot 30 bullets.

They continued to a nearby apartment building - planning, said Qantar, to abduct two or three people and take them back to Lebanon. "We walked up some stairs and I kicked open the door of an apartment," he recounted. "I told Majed [one of his co-attackers] to take the right, while I took the left. Majed opened the bedroom door and someone inside shot him twice in the forehead. He managed to say, 'They shot me,' before he fell.

"I doubled back, entered the bedroom and saw the man who shot Majed. He was an older guy, with a long nose. I pulled the trigger on my pistol that was equipped with a silencer, but nothing happened. I tried again, but still nothing. I tried using my Kalashnikov, but it was jammed. That guy was lucky.

"I yelled downstairs, 'Someone get up here.' Ali came up the stairs. I told him, 'Toss a grenade in there, I've gotta fix my weapon.' The explosion made everything go black. The guy in the bedroom disappeared. I was pretty sure he was dead, but I fired a few more shots just to make sure. Then we went downstairs. The stairwell was dark, but there was light under the door of one of the apartments. We broke in. That was the Haran family's apartment.

"Dan Haran was standing there, looking at us. The little girl was with him. When we arrived, he was sitting on the bed, as if he were waiting for someone. But as soon as we entered the bedroom, he stood up. He started talking to me in English. I didn't understand much; just a few words. He was trying to explain that I should not hurt him. I told my comrade in Arabic, 'Don't shoot.'

"I tried to calm him with gestures. I said to him, 'Come.' He started speaking to me in a mixture of Hebrew and English. He held his daughter tightly. The girl did not make a sound. She was wearing pyjamas. I tried to tell him to leave her there, but he did not understand. I tried telling him 'come.' But he did not want to come with me. I understood he was trying to give the police time to arrive. He was afraid.

"My comrade, Muhammad Ali, did not understand why we were waiting. I tried explaining to Haran again, using Arabic and hand gestures. He understood, but he was completely unwilling to come with me. I tried to separate him from the little girl. Then I heard shots outside. It was 2.45am. I said, 'He is delaying us.'

"I grabbed him in a hurry, with the girl in his arms. I said, 'Yalla, imshi ['Let's go, move it']. We left the building surrounding Haran, who was holding his daughter in his arms, and went to the beach. Haran kept halting and talking, trying to delay us. But we had to get to the boat. They were waiting for us in Lebanon.

"As we approached the rubber dinghy, we heard a lot of voices. Then shots were fired in our direction. We approached the boat from the rocks, and Ali took Danny on board. That's when they started to shoot at us really hard. I returned fire, but it wasn't enough. Ali and Danny got off the boat. I ordered everyone to take a position on the rocks and return fire. Danny was behind us. His daughter was near him. Haran waved at the soldiers and called out to them in Hebrew.

"They continued to fire heavily. I ducked down to put a fresh magazine into my rifle. Haran waved again, while they were still firing, and he was wounded.

"The little girl screamed. That was the first time we heard her. That's it. I don't remember anything else.

"The battle continued until around 5.30am. Ahmed was wounded in the forehead. Ali was killed. I took five bullets and lost a lot of blood. I was not focused.

"What happened to the girl? During the interrogation they told me, 'You must admit that you wounded the girl with your rifle.' I told them, 'Write whatever you want.' I did not see anything and I did not hear anything. It was total chaos there. I was focused on the goal. I don't mind admitting to things that I did. I don't want to admit to things that I did not do."

Samir Qantar's version of the events of April 22, which have been articulated here in his voice for the first time, is different from that of the security service personnel and Israeli civilians who were present.

According to the Israeli security services' reconstruction of the incident, officer Eliyahu Shachar was killed after he got out of his vehicle and fired two warning shots into the air. Qantar's cell responded with a massive burst of shots. A teenager who was sitting in the car, together with two more police officers, was wounded in the leg and ran to hide behind some bushes.

Also contradicting Qantar's testimony is that of Smadar Haran, Danny Haran's widow, who hid with Yael in a tiny crawlspace above the bedroom. She has no recollection of hearing Qantar trying to convince Danny to leave Einat behind. "It was a terrible and chaotic night, but I find it very difficult to believe that any such conversation took place," said Smadar.

Samir Qantar and Ahmed Alabras were wounded and captured at 5.30am. Mhanna Salim Al-Muayed was killed during the exchange of fire.

During his trial Qantar denied responsibility for the murder of the Haran family, despite the evidence of the pathologist, which proved that Einat Haran was killed by the force of a blunt instrument - most likely a rifle butt. The pathologist's report also showed that Einat's brain tissue was found on Qantar's rifle.

In November 1978 Qantar's trial began and lasted for three months. "I thought it was a circus," said Qantar. "There were 52 witnesses. I testified for 90 minutes, in Arabic. The sentence was handed down on January 29 1980. I got five life sentences plus 48 years inside. At the trial I heard for the first time the names of Eliyahu Shachar, Einat, Danny Haran and Smadar Haran, who survived."

"Smadar took me on as her personal project. She could not understand that it wasn't personal. I didn't come with Lebanon with a note that said 'Haran family.' I came as part of a conflict in which I was convinced I had to participate. I did what I did for my people, for my country. If I sit in jail for a hundred years, I will never change my opinions. This is what I believe.

"You are all banging your heads against the wall. You are playing a zero sum game, and both sides are losing. The solution is for the stronger side to compromise. You are the stronger side. You are the occupiers. If you don't compromise, things will not work out. Those are my opinions."

In July 2006, Hizbullah fighters attacked an Israeli patrol and kidnapped two reservist soldiers, Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev to use as bargaining chips to secure Qantar's release. In the ensuing month-long war, 1,100 Lebanese and more than 100 Israelis were killed. The remains of the two Israeli soldiers were this week handed over to Israel in a deal which saw Qantar's pardon and return to Lebanon.

"When the war began, I felt pride. Our people have finally begun to value human life, as you did once. I hoped the abducted soldiers were alive. I knew they were more valuable alive, and I wanted the price to be high. I heard the parents of the abducted soldiers speaking. Things like that lower the barriers. I knew that if they had released me in 2004, your soldiers would not have been abducted. There would not have been a war at all.

"You are responsible. You behaved with stupidity and arrogance. After the 2004 prisoner swap I told one of the guards at Nafha, 'There is going to be a war over me. Remember that.' I knew that there would be a deal and I would be released, that it was just a matter of time.

"What am I going to do now, after my release? I really don't know. I feel as if I am going to another world. I need to sit and digest my new situation. If I had been imprisoned at an older age, it wouldn't be so difficult. But I came to jail as a teenager.

"This is the first time I will experience life on the outside as an adult. I need to learn how to drive, to go to the bank, to buy things. I have never held money in my hand.

"The thing I need most now is privacy. In 2004, when I was supposed to be freed, I bought a house, 40 metres from the beach, in Beirut. The house is waiting. I want to be alone. I want to have my own key, so that I can come and go whenever I please, to drink coffee on the balcony, to smoke a cigarette, to go down and swim in the sea and go jet skiing."

· This article first appeared in Ma'ariv

176 comments:

  1. Did well, the fellow. Bought a house, 40m from the beach. Not bad. Didn't know Israeli prisons paid that well for lodging.

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  2. But Qantar is small fish. The big fish are the British imperialist swine. This is their doing and their work. With their deliberate 24/7 programing of incitement. BBC, Al-Jazeera, CNN, CBC, etc.

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  3. he lso got an college education in prison, a wife with monthly fuck visits...

    I hope sammy the "kunt" enjoys his new life...

    and mostly?

    I hope that he lives long enough to watch his family, his children and his country and cause all SELF destruct into a pile of shit.

    May Lebanon, the new rising start of the Arab Nazism Cult, BURN..

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  4. byw, LOVED his NAZI salute of the Hezbollah troops, and their NAZI salute back...

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  5. Is this the worst trade ever made?
    Maybe they should get Condumb to go represent them next time.
    Just to make things that much worse.
    Condumb and Olmert,
    ...go together like a horse and horses ass.

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  7. I heard Hugh Hewitt trying to explain to an Israeli why this trade would incentivise the terrorists to kill all captives. Hugh's word fell on deaf ears. To this man, nothing was more important than the proper gathering of the remains of the dead. Everything else was secondary in this man's mind. The most important thing is the proper, ceremonial handling of the remains. Never mind the living.

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  8. I bought a house, 40 metres from the beach, in Beirut. The house is waiting. I want to be alone. I want to have my own key, so that I can come and go whenever I please, to drink coffee on the balcony, to smoke a cigarette, to go down and swim in the sea and go jet skiing.

    Wonder where he got the money. Well, there he is folks, not that I'm suggesting anything. If I was that guy I wouldn't be advertising my street address.

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  10. To this man, nothing was more important than the proper gathering of the remains of the dead.

    Understand your point Whit, but maybe this is why Israel is the more cohesive society, a long term advantage.

    I wouldn't have done it, though, myself. I'd demand the living, and they better be in decent shape.

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  11. ONE Silver Lining out of this pile of crap...

    What does it say about the arab/islamic world?

    they welcomed this child murderer as a hero...

    NOTHING I could have said or done could have better illustrated the depths of depravity of the arab/islamic peoples.

    The entire world sees these celebrations coupled with high oil prices!

    Congrats to the death cult called the "sons of ishmael" shooting yourself in your goosestepping feet.

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  12. Hewitt is correct. Dead men tell no tales. Kill them, box them, store them. trade them.

    The fear of the mother smothering the little girl.

    This miserable cur saying the father did not do it right or listen to him. No one should have to endure such hell.

    Find him and kill him.

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  13. They had this fellow for a couple of decades, the Israeli did.

    Released him, they did, too.

    To play on the beach, get a little jet ski time logged in.

    So, if their judgement is so flawed, why let these same folks lead US to war with Iran?

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  14. From bobal's link:
    "Despite his crimes, Kuntar was welcomed back to Lebanon as a hero by the President, Prime Minister and Speaker of parliament. A public holiday was declared to mark the agreement and yellow Hezbollah flags were flown to leave no doubt about who was responsible for the exchange."

    Death cult.

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  15. "So, if their judgement is so flawed, why let these same folks lead US to war with Iran?"

    What do you mean, dr?

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  16. dr:
    So, if their judgement is so flawed, why let these same folks lead US to war with Iran?

    Israel should not lead the USA to war with the Iranians.

    Israel should deal with iran on it's own.

    Of course the BEST way for Israel to do that is of course with complete destruction of Iran's major cities, oil fields, power generating plants, water and sewage.

    I figure that Israel can launch an attack on Iran, Syria and Southern Lebanon using 20-30 nukes and solve the issue once and for all.

    Of course, the price of gasoline might leapt to 11-15 a gallon but that's an acceptable price to erase the most current islamic threat facing Israel.

    Who cares if the Islamic world then reacts and burns half of europe? after all they are already burning hundreds of cars a night in paris and that's acceptable...

    Once Israel nukes Iran, she can they start the cluster bombing of gaza... This of course might start an arab league boycott of all western nations, but who cares?

    Yes, Israel needs to fight it's own battles, since the truth? europe and america have no "dog in the fight"....

    I am so glad israel can now wage war without worrying about anyone but herself

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  17. I do not think so, whit, with regards the "death cult". It was the Israelis that were responsible for trading the living for the dead.

    There's your death cult.

    Lay the responsibility for his release where it belongs, with Israel, not HB.

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  18. Let us not forget that Saddam Hussein was giving a $25,000 stipend to the surviving family members of suicide killing cultists. The payments had wide support in the Arab world.

    There is an unreconcilable cycle of hate that is in the heart of human beings. Human beings will justify anything. Listen to the left or the most intelligent Islamist and wait for the "comma".

    " yes, but they did this first...."

    Tit-for-tat has not worked.

    Decapitation of leadership has not worked. Maybe retaliatory slaughter, Roman style is the only way.

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  19. dr: There's your death cult.

    Lay the responsibility for his release where it belongs, with Israel, not HB.

    Yes it's all Israeli's responsibility.

    If only Israel had just put a bullet in sammy the kunt's head when they had the chance.

    But that death cult called israel, allowed sammy the kunt an education, a wife and created a hero for his people to wage war to get back.

    Yep... If only the Israelis were more like the rest of the world...

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  20. I do not believe that Israel should attack Iran. If she does do it will not be in the proper disproportion to be effective. Precision bombing on selective targets will not accomplish the goal.

    A far wiser approach would be to assure Iran that any attack on Israel by agents of Iran will receive an immediate and far disproportionate nuclear response.

    A trade like the one made does not send a message that the Arab world takes seriously.

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  21. Sammy should have been shanked on his way to class... end of problem.

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  22. His last meal should have been a cyanide knish.

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  23. "Why would we let these people lead us to war?"

    That's the question Buchanan is asking about the British and WWII. In what world would one think that war with the NAZI was not inevitable? Especially by 1939?

    Since 1979 the Iranians have been shaking their fists at America and killing not only Jews but US citizens. Lately, Ahmadinejad has ratcheted up the insanity. Despite all this, the world has sought to defuse the situation and avoid armageddon. Bush allowed the Europeans to seek a peaceful settlement of the Iranian nuclear situation. That failure was years ago. It should be apparent to the world that the Mullahs will not be deterred from their demonic goals. Even now, in a possible last ditch effort, the Bush administration, casting all pride aside, seeks dialog with our avowed enemy.

    The question should be how long will we watch the madness? Will the world again say that we didn't try hard enough to avert the disaster? Should we let the insane establish and unleash a nuclear arsenal or should we recognize the threat and take action before it's too late.

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  24. Come on, dr.
    I agree the responsibility for the trade is on the Israelis. Just as they are responsible for allowing Olmert to stay in office. But the label of death cult belongs solely to the current incarnation of Jew haters.

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  25. whit...

    DR doesnt think Iran is a threat to anyone but the Joos....

    So why not let the Jooos fight their own battles...

    After all the arab/islamic world is making the bargin "let us finish what hitler started and the world will have peace"

    except for the small point that DR misses, israel is the canary in the mine..

    If israel was destroyed tomorrow iran would turn it's attention to anyone of a dozen other targets...

    already iran has taken syria, gaza & lebanon, not to mention sending hezbollah all over the globe.

    Iran is NOT israel's sole responsibility, but if the world (again) doesnt have the balls to stand up against the nazis then Israel will fight to the end...

    israel already expects to receive about 600,000 deaths from a major war with iran, syria, hamas, lebanon, but the kill rate of the arab world will be closer to 175,000,000

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  26. WiO said:
    "Of course the BEST way for Israel to do that is of course with complete destruction of Iran's major cities, oil fields, power generating plants, water and sewage."

    Whew! That's too much at this point.

    I think that most Iranians would like nothing more than to get rid of the Mullahs and their henchmen. WiO's solution could unleash the largest religious war in the history of mankind. A brutal world war which could result in the deaths of millions and a ban on all religion.

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  27. WiO said:
    "Of course the BEST way for Israel to do that is of course with complete destruction of Iran's major cities, oil fields, power generating plants, water and sewage."

    Whew! That's too much at this point.

    I think that most Iranians would like nothing more than to get rid of the Mullahs and their henchmen. WiO's solution could unleash the largest religious war in the history of mankind. A brutal world war which could result in the deaths of millions and a ban on all religion.

    But Israel doesn't have the ability to be surgical

    It needs to ensure the complete destruction of the persian/shia crescent in one fell nanosecond.

    As for the largest religious war, it's already started whit... we are just not fighting back yet.

    The goal of the Nazis (shias/arabs/persians) is the genocide of MILLIONS of jews.

    Personally? I could give a shit how many we have to KILL to stop this goal..

    Whit MY people have had MILLIONS be murdered by successive waves of shia, persias, romans, germans, spanish, brits and others so quite frankly it's time to play hard ball.

    nuke a few iranian, syrian, lebanese cities, destroy their ability for water, food and sewage, nothing THEY haven't been trying to do to Israel (or the Jews) since the Abraham knocked up the cleaning lady

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  28. I understand, WiO.

    Please God, help us all.

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  29. it's actually very easy to solve...

    one nuke taking out one major islamic site should do it...

    PROVE to the islamic world allah has deserted them

    NUKE the black rock...

    send a message

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  30. I would have put three rounds in the back of his head and one other of the douchebags five minutes before the exchange.

    Two dead tangos for two dead soldiers makes more sense.

    Would have sent a nice message too.

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  31. just in:

    Sheikh Naim Kassem, deputy secretary-general of Hizballah, said Saturday, July 19, that abductions of more Israeli soldiers may not be ruled out “in order to achieve the organization’s goals.” He declared that his pro-Iranian Shiite group remained at war with Israel.

    NUKE EM

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  32. Israel needs to give Olmert and Associates their "walking papers" and get ready for the next throw down. Iran and Hesbollah certainly are.

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  33. Here's an article I posted on the other thread yesterday, but since the subject is coming up again...didn't realize the writer was Jewish when I first looked at it. I think he's got it about as right as you can get it. Problem is Israel doesn't quite have the firepower without escalating. God help us is right.

    I found out yesterday too that Wolf Blitzer is Jewish(from Michael Savage). I wouldn't have guessed that.

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  34. So far, the religious war has been contained like forest fires popping up here and there. You might think our response has been one of half-steps and half-measures as I often do but isn't the slow patient war of attrition less costly than a World War?

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  35. Things are going to get costly when Iran gets an arsenal of nukes. We'd be better off electing McCain who at least might put the fear of God in some hearts.

    It's the damnable nuclear weapons that pushes the calculations to such horrendous possible results. A nuke--no better friend,(in the right hands) no worse enemy.(in the wrong hands)

    There is no getting rid of them though, not a realistic possiblity that I can see.

    We need a divine intervention. I'd settle for an alien one, maybe.

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  36. Here's a thought.

    What does Hesbollah think about the nuclear destruction of Israel? What do Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Saudi Arabia think? Are they willing to stand by and let Iran carry out such a deed? Do they think they could possibly escape unscathed? Don't they realize their worlds will changed in unimaginable ways? Are they willing to suffer the consequences or will they stand with us?

    If so, there may be hope. If not...

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  37. bobal said...
    Here's an article I posted on the other thread yesterday, but since the subject is coming up again...didn't realize the writer was Jewish when I first looked at it. I think he's got it about as right as you can get it. Problem is Israel doesn't quite have the firepower without escalating. God help us is right.

    I found out yesterday too that Wolf Blitzer is Jewish(from Michael Savage). I wouldn't have guessed that.

    Benny Morris is a far LEFT ISRAELI HISTORIAN. BUT in this case he is right.

    Israel will trash Iran if needed.

    As I have said many times before...

    look at the "loss" of the 2006 war in lebanon...

    Israel was SELECTIVE and TRIED not to harm civilians and yet caused 5 billion in damage, did kill 700 or so hezbollah (plus another 400 or so civilians) and wrecked southern lebanon for 30 years.

    all this for 2 kidnapped soldiers...

    If israel WISHED to harm civilians (like the iran & company try to do) it would not be hard for israel to do...

    It's time for a vulgar, crude kick in the ass of the body islamic...

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  38. I think your NYTimes link must have been in the back of my mind this morning, bob. I am going to post the article one post back just so we have it handy...

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  39. What does Hesbollah think about the nuclear destruction of Israel? What do Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Saudi Arabia think?

    They dream of israel being erased...

    The cannot fathom that Israel actually CAN erase them. They project...

    If they COULD they would destroy israel, and since israel doesnt DESTROY them, it must mean ISRAEL CANT.

    Can't wait for that dream to end...

    personally? I bomb the Answar dam, damascus, tehran, mecca & beirut, i'd take out every power plant, every water treatment, every port, oil field and leave the islamic death cult to enjoy what they have sowed

    read this:

    July 18, 2005

    Tancredo: If They Nuke Us, Bomb Mecca
    We at Jihad Watch think that there are many other ways to put pressure on jihadists short of this and that these other tactics should be tried first. We hope and pray that Muslims repudiate and renounce jihad ideology before it comes to this. From Fox News:

    DENVER — A Colorado congressman told a radio show host that the U.S. could "take out" Islamic holy sites if Muslim fundamentalist terrorists attacked the country with nuclear weapons.
    Rep. Tom Tancredo made his remarks Friday on WFLA-AM in Orlando, Fla. His spokesman stressed he was only speaking hypothetically.

    Talk show host Pat Campbell asked the Littleton Republican how the country should respond if terrorists struck several U.S. cities with nuclear weapons.

    "Well, what if you said something like — if this happens in the United States, and we determine that it is the result of extremist, fundamentalist Muslims, you know, you could take out their holy sites," Tancredo answered.

    "You're talking about bombing Mecca," Campbell said.

    "Yeah," Tancredo responded.

    The congressman later said he was "just throwing out some ideas" and that an "ultimate threat" might have to be met with an "ultimate response."

    Spokesman Will Adams said Sunday the four-term congressman doesn't support threatening holy Islamic sites but that Tancredo was grappling with the hypothetical situation of a terrorist strike deadlier than the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

    "We have an enemy with no uniform, no state, who looks like you and me and only emerges right before an attack. How do we go after someone like that?" Adams said.

    "What is near and dear to them? They're willing to sacrifice everything in this world for the next one. What is the pressure point that would deter them from their murderous impulses?" he said.

    Tancredo is known in the House for his tough stand on immigration and had a 100 percent rating last year from the American Conservative Union his votes and positions on issues...

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  40. bob, from the second amendment link:
    The results speak for themselves. All nine justices agreed that the Second Amendment established an individual right. But four dissenters offered an interpretation of that right so cramped as to render it a nullity.

    Four justices who twist the meaning whichever way they choose. With Justices like that, the Bill of Rights means nothing.

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  41. Well, things are safe here 2nd Amendment wise, and in Montana, probably Florida too from what I hear, and Texas etc etc.

    Even I agree MS-13 doesn't have the right to machine guns in LA. I can live with some restrictions. The thing is they found it was an individual right. I didn't realize all nine had found that. We might end up with a patch work of some restrictions, for awhile at least.

    I'm getting concerned about other stuff too. Freedom of speech, for one. And that ruling about 'takings'. And, it was the courts that ruled we have to educate illegal aliens, for instance. Long ago, I remember dad talking about it, the kids are here illegally, but if the moms and dads aren't deported, we got to educate the kids, as a matter of good social policy. I think that's still in effect. That was in California. Now they get into what marriage is, and who knows what.

    You know me, I think the judges have too much power. But, when they rule in your favor they are the best thing around. Some rulings seem really off the wall. Your lean-to is your castle in the National Forests here, for instance, according to one judge. Got to have that search warrent to search the lean-to. Which kind of makes me crack a smile. I wouldn't have thought that reasonable. Seems kind of temporary housing to me. :)

    Got to run. Nice discussion.

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  42. I like Brother D-Day's rounds of applause.

    ReplyDelete
  43. The death cult comes from your link to the Hewitt show, whit

    To this man, nothing was more important than the proper gathering of the remains of the dead. Everything else was secondary in this man's mind. The most important thing is the proper, ceremonial handling of the remains. Never mind the living.

    He, and Israel is absorbed by the dead, not the living. What more should be asked of a death cult?

    ReplyDelete
  44. As to the costliness comparison, long war vs short and decisive.

    The oil prices projected to be attained by striking Iran, four years ago, have been achieved, but the Mullahs still stand.

    So, it seems, the economic costs have escalated, while we are no closer to victory, nor even success. We are not even at war, as the US has no permanent enemies.

    ReplyDelete
  45. dr:

    There's your death cult.

    He, and Israel is absorbed by the dead, not the living. What more should be asked of a death cult?

    There's a couple comments so contemptible they're beneath response.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Whit:

    So far, the religious war has been contained like forest fires popping up here and there. You might think our response has been one of half-steps and half-measures as I often do but isn't the slow patient war of attrition less costly than a World War?

    Absent the Iranian nuclear threat, maybe. That 'maybe' is arguable. Factor in the Iranian mullahs with fission weapons, even lacking ballistic delivery capability, and the whole 'patient war of attrition' strategy is overcome by events. At that point, using your analogy, you will have a fire storm threatening the west that is beyond containment. Think third conjecture. Put a low yield Iranian bomb on a tramp freighter or trawler and cruise into the port of your choice. Homeland Security can't even provide enough radiation badges to border inspectors now. We're naked if terrorists get an Iranian bomb, but you know that.

    Regarding the modern rational Iranians you mentioned a couple posts back:

    There are plenty of modern, moderate people in Iran. Given enough time, perhaps the situation can be turned around.

    How much time is enough to wait for that to happen? We're at thirty years and counting.

    It's coming folks. Lessons of history ignored. Reliance on negotiation, sanctions, compromise and mediation continue as if their failures since 1939 never happened. The awakening won't occur until the West is jarred out of complacency by the unthinkable. Leave it to the Jews. It's their problem, right? Neocons contrived 9/11?

    There's one constant in this ugly scenario. Count on this: when the shit hits the fan, dr will blame it on Bush.

    ReplyDelete
  47. There's your death cult.

    He, and Israel is absorbed by the dead, not the living. What more should be asked of a death cult?

    There's a couple comments so contemptible they're beneath response.

    he's the Roman pat buchanan without the flair.

    ReplyDelete
  48. No one knew if those soldiers taken captive were alive or dead. The Red Cross was was denied access. Israel gambled that time was not on her soldiers' side and made the trade. Israel did right. Israel did the best she could for it's soldiers. Her soldiers know that. That's why only in Israel can the soldiers face 10 to 1 odds in tank battles and 100 to 1 odds in fighting personnel, hold the line and come on top.

    ReplyDelete
  49. The Red Cross was denied access.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Meanwhile in South Asia.
    The US and Pakistan remain allies in the international fight against terrorism but relations have been worsening. The US is accusing Pakistan of failing to rein in Taleban and al-Qaeda militants that take refuge in its border region and, as Barbara Plett reports, there is growing anger among Pakistanis towards the US.


    Pakistan's uneasy alliance with US

    ReplyDelete
  51. Israel did the best she could for her soldiers.

    ReplyDelete
  52. WiO,

    You're thinking about this all wrong. It's not the computer hardware that's at fault, it's the software program and software programmers. If I had one nuke, it would go off in London.

    ReplyDelete
  53. During the 1973 Yom Kippur War, Kahalani's 77th Armored Battalion almost single-handedly held the Golan Heights for Israel. His 77th Armored "Oz" (Courage) Battalion, with 12 Israeli tanks held off and defeated over 250 Syrian tanks.

    ==

    Sorry, that's not 10 to 1 odds. That's odds of 20 to 1.

    ReplyDelete
  54. History shows that much of the modern screw ups come from the British and French in the middle east...

    However I'd look backwards a little further...

    The Ottomans should be given "blame" and or "praise" as well...

    They gave us the concept of modern genocide...

    they gave us the arab islamic hoards of northern africa

    The Arabs? the deserve much blame as well, after all they are still pissed that they are the bastard child of abraham...

    and the french and brits?

    karma is destroying their countries now from the inside

    ReplyDelete
  55. Bobal: Got to have that search warrent to search the lean-to. Which kind of makes me crack a smile. I wouldn't have thought that reasonable. Seems kind of temporary housing to me.

    Back when they first put the spotted owl on the endangered species list, and the loggers were thrown out of work, I saw whole families living in tents in the woods up in Skamania County where I liked to go hiking in the Columbia River Gorge. Now with all the foreclosures, and rents higher than my mortgage, I expect to see this sort of thing again.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Caroline Glick:

    Beyond all that, a nuclear-armed Iran would directly threaten US territory in two ways. First, there is no reason not to think that Teheran would use Hizbullah cells in the US to detonate nuclear devices in US cities. Iran has already shown a willingness to use Hizbullah to carry out terror attacks in the West - most spectacularly in the 1994 bombing of the AMIA Jewish community center in Buenos Aires.

    Second, it is widely feared that Iran is developing the capacity to launch an electromagnetic pulse (or EMP) attack against the US mainland. An EMP attack is conducted by launching a nuclear bomb into the atmosphere above a country. It needn't actually hit the country. Simply by detonating a nuclear device at sufficiently high altitude, an EMP attack can destroy the electrical grids, communications systems and military-industrial foundations of a society. Such an attack would set the US back a hundred years.

    Fears of an EMP attack against the US were sparked last week by Iran's test of an advanced version of its Shihab-3 ballistic missile. The day of the missile test, William Graham, who heads a congressionally mandated commission on the EMP threat to the US, gave testimony on the issue to the House's Armed Services Committee. Graham explained that Iran has already conducted missile test from ships in the Caspian Sea. If it acquires nuclear weapons, it will apparently have the capacity to launch a nuclear warhead capable of carrying out an EMP attack against the US from a freighter in international waters off the US coast.


    israelmatzav

    ReplyDelete
  57. Emek Ha'bacha Battle:
    (The Valley Of Tears Battle)

    In the northern half of the front, there was the 7th brigade, and at the place of the main syrian effort, along the main road from Damascus to the Jordan valley, a huge Syrian force was stopped by the 77 tank battalion of Lt. Col. Avigdor Kahalani (Now Brig. Gen. Ret.) Kahalani's tanks, dug in high placed firing positions, destroyed hundreds of Syrian targets in about 48 hours of fierce fighting, massively outnumbered. the huge Syrian force kept advancing towards the smaller Israeli force, and at some point, at the peak of battle, Kahalani noticed that some of his tanks, afraid of being overrun by the approaching enemy, started retreating. Knowing that if the enemy force would capture the high hills line which his force held, they would quickly destroy all the retreating force. Since radio chat failed to persuade the tanks (some of them already with no more ammo. After many hours of firing) to stop retreating, Kahalani made an act of brave self-example, he called his tanks by radio again, and said "we are better than they are, let's storm them" and then moved his tank to the highest position, and there, fully exposed to the enemy force started firing directly at the approaching enemy tanks. This act of tremendous bravery and leadership, worked both ways. The Syrian force, which so far suffered heavy losses but knew that they're fighting an un-backed Israeli front line force, thought that an Israeli re-enforcement force has arrived and begins to take positions on top of the ridge, and the retreating tanks, returned and re-took their firing positions. Seeing "new" tanks firing from the ridge top. the Syrian force decided that it's time to retreat due to the heavy losses suffered so far. It was the "straw that broke the camel's back" and the Syrian force, the main invading force, started retreating, leaving about 300 burned tanks and armored vehicles behind. For these acts of bravery, leadership, and the tremendous fighting performance of his battalion, Lt. Col. Kahalani was also awarded the highest medal. Kahalani's gunner himself destroyed 17 Syrian tanks in this battle, one of them from range of 3 meters. however there was a problem with aiming. It was in the middle of the night, and the gunner just didn't see anything, Because the sights were filled with darkness, which was the Syrian tank. The gunner asked twice for range and directions, and was answered by Kahalani "CLOSE!!!", seeing that the gunner is not firing, Kahalani, who remembered being hit and suffering 60% skin burns when his tank was hit in the 1967 six days war, finally kicked the gunner's back and shouted "JUST FIRE!!!" (and was temporarily blinded by the flash of the close hit at the enemy's turret.)

    .
    .

    http://www.israelmilitary.net/showthread.php?p=9110

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  58. T: Back when they first put the spotted owl on the endangered species list, and the loggers were thrown out of work, I saw whole families living in tents in the woods up in Skamania County...

    Surely you exaggerate. Weren't they all supposed to find gainful employment carving souvenirs for the eco-tourists? Chainsaw carvings of bears alongside eagles flying on black velvet tapestries? Jars of homemade huckleberry jam. That's what we were told. I'm crushed.

    ReplyDelete
  59. 1973 Yom kippur War

    Syria: 1400 tanks backed by more than 1000 artillery pieces.
    Israel: 170 tanks and 70 artillery pieces.

    Now you know where the 10 to 1 odds came from.

    ReplyDelete
  60. There you have it!

    Iraq Leader Maliki Supports Obama's Withdrawal Plans

    In an interview with SPIEGEL, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Barack Obama's 16 timeframe for a withdrawal from Iraq is the right one.

    Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki supports US presidential candidate Barack Obama's plan to withdraw US troops from Iraq within 16 months. When asked in and interview with SPIEGEL when he thinks US troops should leave Iraq, Maliki responded "as soon as possible, as far as we are concerned." He then continued: "US presidential candidate Barack Obama talks about 16 months. That, we think, would be the right timeframe for a withdrawal, with the possibility of slight changes."

    ReplyDelete
  61. Ease up on DR:
    He was just trying to distract you guys.
    AND HE SUCCEEDED!
    You Dupes FORGOT TO BLAME THE ROMANS!
    ---
    "But it's also true that in 1985, the Italians had Abbas in their hands after U.S. fighter jets forced his plane to land in Sicily. And yet they let him go.

    So while I trust Berlusconi, who knows if a future Italian government might not again wash its hands of Abbas?
    "

    ReplyDelete
  62. And let us not forget:
    Romans are White People.
    The Reverend tells me so.

    ReplyDelete
  63. "The misfire comes at an odd time for Bush foreign policy, at a time when Obama's campaign alleges the president is moving closer toward Obama's recommendations about international relations -- sending more U.S. troops to Afghanistan, discussing a "general time horizon" for U.S. troop withdrawal and launching talks with Iran."
    ---
    What more could W and Condumb do to sabotage Big John?
    ---
    Reminiscent of firing Rummy AFTER the election.
    ---
    Losers.

    ReplyDelete
  64. The fellows just do not want to admit that dead jews are more valuable to the Israeli government than live ones.

    The past being more important to them than the future.

    But that was the thrust of whit's pointed post. And the point of the prisoners for bodies exchange.

    duece's choice of titles for the thread:
    Israel Disgraced, ...

    And the precedent that it sets.

    The dead are more important than the threats the exchange creates for the living.

    As mat, the selfproclaimed former Jew, has no empathy for the dead, at all. Those statements all the more telling, now.
    He left the death cult and joined the land of the living.


    As predicted, the Maliki coalition will endorse the Obama plan, and call it victory.
    As will Obama.

    Then the "Right" and the "Conservatives" will have to explain why the US is really a loser. How it has not won.

    Team43 had the window of opportunity to shape the message, it failed. Communication never being its' strong suite.

    Maverick suggested Obama visit Iraq, another misunderestimintation of his opponent.

    ReplyDelete
  65. "The fellows just do not want to admit that dead jews are more valuable to the Israeli government than live ones."


    Feels good?

    ReplyDelete
  66. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Doss not "feel" at all.

    It's not about feeelings
    it's about the reality.

    It's about cause and effect

    The lessons of Lebanon'06, that the Israel munitions are supplied by US using the "just in time" inventory control methods.

    The depth of the Israeli stockpiles, incountry, not enough for an offensive war, in Lebanon.

    ReplyDelete
  68. "Doss not "feel" at all."


    I know. The land of the living, eh. LOL.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Anyway, Israel did good. As to your asinine assertion,
    see my Sat Jul 19, 02:48:00 PM EDT

    ReplyDelete
  70. Murderers are pardoned and paroled, quite often.

    Prisoners are often exchanged, the US and Soviets often exchanged prisoners. The U2 pilot Gary Powers was one such swapee, for some Ruski spy.

    As much as it galls, the HB fellow is celebrating life, not death.

    The entire affair illustrates how the War on Terror has devolved into a police chase.

    If there really is a threat from an Iranian nuclear device, and Team43 has left our borders and ports open to infiltration and assualt ...

    Well then, where does the responsibility for such an inept defensive posture, in a Long War, find a home, but in the commander of the defense of the homeland.

    A stray Russian nuke or one of Dr Khan's Paki specials are greater and more likely threats than one from Iran.

    The EMP pulse, the size of the device needs to be in the mega kilo tonne range and centered at high altitude over the target area.

    While NYCity or DC, any coastal metropolitian area, could be threatened by an EMP assualt with current Korean or Pakistani technologies, the effects would be geographicly limited.

    Both by the short range of their rocketry and the small size of their fission warheads.

    ReplyDelete
  71. There you go ...
    "Israel did good!"

    Certainly a perspective I wouldn't share, but Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah certainly does.

    Guess it's what they call
    "WIN - WIN"

    ReplyDelete
  72. Politics - Schwarzenegger urges 'creative' revenue increases without tax hikes -

    Schwarzenegger's January proposal included some new revenue, though none as substantial as Hill proposed through ending tax breaks. The governor's budget proposed a new 1.25 percent fee on homeowners insurance, as well as an $11 increase in vehicle registration fees, neither of which the governor considers tax hikes.

    The Republican governor campaigned on a no-new-tax pledge during his 2006 re-election effort, but some Republicans have charged that raising fees or closing tax loopholes is the same as increasing taxes. Schwarzenegger insisted Tuesday that he remains an anti-tax advocate.

    "I am not a believer in raising taxes because you cannot raise your way out of this problem," he said.
    ---
    Democrats Propose Doubling Tax before it Exists!
    The rocketing cost of fighting California's wildfires has prompted Democratic lawmakers to double the homeowners insurance surcharge that Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger proposed earlier this year for disaster preparedness.

    Under the new proposal, homeowners in "high-risk areas" - which, between fires, floods and earthquakes, covers about 95 percent of the state - would have a 2.8 percent surcharge added to their policies.
    ---
    Former Mayor Jerry Brown's $118,000-a-year adviser, Jacques Barzaghi, got $13,500 from Oakland developer John Protopappas - whom Brown appointed to the Port Commission -
    for feng shui consulting on various Protopappas projects.

    Brown also defended Barzaghi, his friend and confidant, when Barzaghi was hit with a sexual harassment claim that eventually cost the city $50,000.

    It wasn't until Barzaghi's sixth wife frantically phoned 911 in a domestic violence spat - to which then-Police Chief Richard Word personally responded - that Brown finally cut his close friend loose in 2004.
    ---
    Meanwhile, in Los Angeles, Mayor Villar and Chief Bratton raised fees to hire 700 new policemen.
    Instead, they hired 300 and kept the change for other interests and activities.
    Each LA City Councilperson has TWENTY well-paid assistants.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Certainly not Maverick's message, duece.

    Nor Obama's.

    Does not seem to be Mr Olmert's, either.

    That Mr Maliki sees a 16 month withdrawal window as on the money, wonder where we're going?

    How does Maverick answer that, or does Mr Bush ignore it, for him?

    ReplyDelete
  74. Back when they first put the spotted owl on the endangered species list, and the loggers were thrown out of work, I saw whole families living in tents in the woods up in Skamania County where I liked to go hiking in the Columbia River Gorge.

    I can believe that, T. The judge responsible did apologize, before he died, not much consolation to the families involved.

    The search warrant decision for the National Forests--maybe the judge is 'right' for all I know. Seems odd to me though. What's temporary, what's permanent, does it matter?

    Does an illegal alien sitting in a boxcar have some protection against illegal searches and seizures?

    Society has got to function.

    ReplyDelete
  75. "The depth of the Israeli stockpiles, incountry, not enough for an offensive war, in Lebanon."


    An arc of conflict to keep the oil/dollar racket going and imperialists at their game. Now we know why the great opposition to Israel's barrier wall. LOL.

    ReplyDelete
  76. And let us not forget:
    Romans are White People.
    The Reverend tells me so.


    But don't forget the Romans weren't Italians, Doug, al-bob told you so.
    ---
    Yep, Obama scores with the Maliki comment. Beware, lest you get what you wish for Maliki.

    I read a long article yesterday though, plenty of Iraqis kinds hope, you know, that we hang around for awhile, it's just kind of hard to say so.

    ReplyDelete
  77. I wonder how many original Romans remain today. I bet none. Washed away by war and foreign invasions.

    ReplyDelete
  78. ahhh... but the rituals and language live on, in the Roman Cathlolic Church.

    So, mat, is it the cultural memory or the DNA track that defines a Roman?

    ReplyDelete
  79. Then there are more than a few, still about.
    In many ways, Rome was much like America, it took in all comers.
    From Africa, Spain, Gaul and Germany.

    As long as they assimulated.

    ReplyDelete
  80. No, both the Roman DNA and Culture is now long extinct.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Mat, according to the Aeneid they was all Trojans. Like the Irish. I don't believe any of this however. I think the Romans was just farmers that got on top for awhile.

    What's all this talk about nuking London?

    ReplyDelete
  82. "In many ways, Rome was much like America, it took in all comers."


    LOL. Yes, as took them as slaves. But the slaves turned their old masters into slaves. And then washed away their former masters into extinction.

    ReplyDelete
  83. You didn't know DNA went extinct, did you, 'Rat?
    ...live and learn!

    If we stopped logging to save the "endangered" Owl, what must we do to keep endangered DNA from going extinct?

    ReplyDelete
  84. Good than nobody fucked the slaves over there like they did here!

    ReplyDelete
  85. Maybe, Bob. We'll never know until we learn their face. One face, One People.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Roman culture and ritual live in the Roman Catholic Church. Every Sunday.

    The Roman Catholic Church is the world's largest Christian church and represents over half of all Christians and one-sixth of the world's population. It is made up of one Western church (the Latin Rite) and 22 Eastern Catholic churches, divided into 2,782 jurisdictional areas around the world.

    The genetic strain, back to Remus and Romulous, that could be gone, or not.

    ReplyDelete
  87. " I think the Romans was just farmers that got on top for awhile."
    ---
    You thot the ALL did it dogstyle w/little boys?

    ReplyDelete
  88. Doug,

    You might as well argue that the Arabs currently occupying Egypt are the original Egyptians. They're not. They know it, and the tiny Copt minority knows it.

    ReplyDelete
  89. "Roman culture and ritual live in the Roman Catholic Church. Every Sunday."

    LOL. Yeah.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Yeah, but the DNA didn't go extinct:
    Just got re-arranged.

    ReplyDelete
  91. "re-arranged"

    That's not how DNA works.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Everybody gets there turn on top.
    Just ask al-Bob.

    ReplyDelete
  93. Pharoah Mohammed Tutankhamun.

    ReplyDelete
  94. Traits get washed out. There's no DNA memory once past a certain limit.

    ReplyDelete
  95. "Everyone should have his or her turn on top."

    from "The Collected Sayings of al-Bob"

    ReplyDelete
  96. Bastian's Elementary Ideas remain.

    ReplyDelete
  97. As long as there is intermarriage, or cross class fucking, the majority of DNA carries on way past now.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Bob,

    The collective unconscious is not the same as the collective conscious.

    ReplyDelete
  99. People in San Francisco really have lost their minds. Can't they recall that free love is cheaper than the Purchased Variety

    I think San Francisco ought to be let go so it can become a city/state of its own. Then, in short time, it could be invaded, conquered, and put to work at some useful occupation.

    ReplyDelete
  100. "As long as there is intermarriage, or cross class fucking, the majority of DNA carries on way past now."


    That all depends of the population size. In the case of the Romans, nothing remains of the founding families. They've long ago disappeared due to war and massive population influx.

    ReplyDelete
  101. "nuking London"

    Don't want no nuke fallout in my neighborhood, that's all.

    ReplyDelete
  102. While NYCity or DC, any coastal metropolitian area, could be threatened by an EMP assualt with current Korean or Pakistani technologies, the effects would be geographicly limited.

    Four freighters. Four $8 wrist watches with calendars. Four 'short range' rockets. Four little warheads. Four cities. DC, NYC, LA, Seattle. Geographically limited. I'm safe I guess. No big deal. You win.

    ReplyDelete
  103. One, just one, one little nuclear weapon going off in the US would change all our lives forever.

    ReplyDelete
  104. A stray Russian nuke or one of Dr Khan's Paki specials are greater and more likely threats than one from Iran.

    Somebody needs to call DC and Israel. Tell 'em to take their heads out of their asses and just listen to DR. I would, but my dialup's tying up the phone.

    ReplyDelete
  105. "I think the Romans was just farmers that got on top for awhile."

    Sure, Bob, take all the credit.

    ReplyDelete
  106. Rasmussen Daily Tracking has it tied up today, when leaners are included.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Thanks, Mat! I gladly will:)

    ReplyDelete
  108. Did they include all the Weiners?

    ReplyDelete
  109. And, in news today from international currency markets, word arrived that Zimbabwe had introduced the new, long awaited $100 Billion Dollar Bank Note Worth 4 Oranges

    ReplyDelete
  110. Once-prosperous Zimbabwe has seen an unprecedented economic meltdown since it gained independence in 1980, with the official inflation rate now at 2.2 million percent.

    ReplyDelete
  111. You never addressed the concious vs the unconcious.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Youz laughing, Bob, but the net effect is no more Joos in Zimbabwe. Damn imperialist British and their schemes.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Collective unconscious = Bastian's Elementary Ideas.

    Collective conscious = Bastian's folk ideas.

    There.

    ReplyDelete
  114. Driving down to fetch the mail, radio man just told me they've begun drilling in ANWR. "Yea!" I said.
    Then he says, "But not for oil...environmentalists are drilling for core samples to study effects of global warming on ice." Or words to that effect.

    Betcha Bob coulda told 'em without drilling.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Sorry, Bob, but Joos have long blond hair and blue eyes. Ask Jesus.

    ReplyDelete
  116. Maybe they'll strike oil!

    I've changed my views somewhat on global warming, Linear, I've become something of a sceptic. Whit's point about how it's perfect for social contral has rung a bell with me. I'm all for changing away from oil though, to nuclear, and Mat's sun and wind, if we can.

    Rhodesia and Independence and War

    ReplyDelete
  117. Yes, we all know Jesus was Swedish, but the Lemba claim descent from yoos joos and, according to a book I read, actually have some DNA to back up the claim.

    ReplyDelete
  118. This is fascinating. But this doesn't sound good--
    The Lemba believe they are descended from an ancient group of Jews who were led out of Israel by a prophet named Buba.

    Damned Clintons always leading people astray.



    Lembas
    Mark G. Thomas, Tudor Parfitt, D. A. Weiss, Karl L. Skorecki, J. F. Wilson, M. le Roux, Neil Bradman, David B. Goldstein. "Y Chromosomes Traveling South: the Cohen Modal Haplotype and the Origins of the Lemba--the 'Black Jews of Southern Africa'." American Journal of Human Genetics 66:2 (February 2000): 674-686. (Mirror) The "Kohen modal haplotype" is found among a significant number of members of the Lemba tribe of Africa, which claims descent from Jews but is also descended from Black Africans (Bantus). The priestly Buba clan has the Kohen haplotype in a higher percentage than Ashkenazi priests do. Furthermore, the non-Buba Lemba have the highest percentage of the Kohen haplotype outside of the priestly caste, among populations tested to date - higher than Ashkenazim and Sephardim added together! (Familytreedna.com estimates that only about 3 percent of Jews who do not know whether they are Levites or Cohens have the Cohen gene). 9 percent of the Lembas have the Cohen gene. Excerpts from the abstract:

    "A previous study using Y-chromosome markers suggested both a Bantu and a Semitic contribution to the Lemba gene pool, a suggestion that is not inconsistent with Lemba oral tradition... To provide a more detailed picture of the Lemba paternal genetic heritage, we analyzed 399 Y chromosomes for six microsatellites and six biallelic markers in six populations (Lemba, Bantu, Yemeni-Hadramaut, Yemeni-Sena, Sephardic Jews, and Ashkenazic Jews). The high resolution afforded by the markers shows that Lemba Y chromosomes are clearly divided into Semitic and Bantu clades. Interestingly, one of the Lemba clans carries, at a very high frequency, a particular Y-chromosome type termed the 'Cohen modal haplotype,' which is known to be characteristic of the paternally inherited Jewish priesthood and is thought, more generally, to be a potential signature haplotype of Judaic origin."
    James R. Ross. Fragile Branches: Travels Through the Jewish Diaspora. New York: Riverhead Books, 2000. Excerpts from Ross's book:

    "The Lemba in southern Africa, who practice circumcision and do not eat pork, also claim their origins in Ancient Israel thousands of years ago. Anthropologists have concluded that the Lemba appropriated these practices when white missionaries taught them about the Hebrew Bible. Geneticists have found, however, that many Lemba men carry DNA sequences that are nearly unique to cohanim, Jewish priests believed to descend from Moses' brother, Aaron. The sequence is almost as common among the priestly clan of the Lemba as it is among Ashkenazi Jews who are believed to be cohanim." (excerpt from page 22)
    Johnjoe McFadden. "Written in the genes." The Guardian (March 31, 2003). Excerpt:

    "The Lemba are a tribe of Bantu-speaking black Africans who believe they are descended from Jews. ... Thompson's laboratory discovered that in their Y-chromosomes was a genetic marker found only among Jews. The Lemba tradition that a high priest named Buba led them out of Judaea may indeed be based on a real event. ... The Jewish gene in the Lemba tribe is found in only about 10% of the men, yet the whole tribe practices Jewish traditions."
    Dorothy C. Wertz. "Jewish ancestry for an African tribe: From Yemen to Zimbabwe." GeneLetter (November 1, 2000).

    Jon Entine. "Is good performance in sports determined by colour?." The Sunday Standard (Nairobi, Kenya, October 1, 2000). Excerpt:

    "...the Lemba tribe of southern Africa was recently shown to be genetically linked through the Y-chromosome to the Jewish population of Mesopotamia some 2,000 years ago. In key genetic ways, they are quite distant from many other Africans."
    Jon Entine. Taboo: Why Black Athletes Dominate Sports and Why We're Afraid to Talk About It. New York: Public Affairs, 2000. Excerpt from page 109:

    "The Lemba have clan names like Sadiqui and Hamisi that are clearly Semitic and have an enigmatic identity that traces their origins to an ancient Jewish community in what is now Yemen. Although scholars had long dismissed their claims as having been adopted from tales spun by missionaries, research now confirms that the black-skinned Lemba are genetic cousins of white Sephardic Jews. A team of geneticists has determined that many Lemba carry in their male chromosome a set of DNA sequences that is distinctive of the Jewish priests believe to be the descendants of Aaron, one of the twelve original Jewish tribes."
    Mark Schoofs. "Fossils in the Blood: Scientists Find Ancient DNA in Living Africans." The Village Voice (April 4-10, 2000). Excerpts:

    "For instance, Jenkins and Soodyall have studied the Lemba, a group of so-called Black Jews who claim to be a lost tribe of Israel, and found that many of them have genetic markers similar to those of Semitic people."
    Laurie Zoloth. "Yearning for the Long Lost Home: The Lemba and the Jewish Narrative of Genetic Return." Developing World Bioethics 3:2 (December 2003): 127-132. Abstract:

    "This commentary examines the relationship between genetics and Jewish identity. It focuses especially on the use of Y-chromosome testing to map the genealogies of the Lemba in southern Africa."
    Josephine Johnston. "Case Study: The Lemba." Developing World Bioethics 3:2 (December 2003): 109-111. Abstract:

    "The attempts of scholars and scientists to unravel the mystery of the ancestral origins of the Lemba are summarised, focusing on Tudor Parfitt's book, Journey to the Vanished City, and a study by an international group of genetic and social scientists. The impact of this research on identity questions is raised."
    Janine Lazarus, with Wendy Elliman and Julie Gruenbaum Fax. "At Israel's Doorstep in Africa." Hadassah Magazine 82:5 (January 2001). Excerpts:

    "Tests have shown that the Lemba possess the 'Kohen gene,' extremely rare among non-Jews, in a proportion similar to that of Jews... [T]here are now efforts - from the Lemba and from Jewish outreach groups - to expose them to Judaism... As much as they needed someone like Parfitt to study them, they may also need someone to champion their integration. That person may be Rufina Bernadetti Silva Mausenbaum, a descendant of Portuguese Crypto-Jews who made her way back to the Jewish fold. Living in Johannesburg, she is a representative of Kulanu, an America-based Jewish outreach organization..."
    John Murphy. "Jewish? Africans knew it all along." The Baltimore Sun (September 25, 2003). Excerpts:

    "For years the outside world dismissed the Lemba's claims as sheer fantasy. That changed in 1999, when geneticists from the United States, Great Britain and Israel discovered some backing for the claims. The researchers found that Lemba men carried a DNA signature on their Y chromosome that is believed unique to the relatively small number of Jews known as the Cohanim, who trace their ancestry to the priests of the ancient Jewish Temple and, ultimately, to Aaron, brother of Moses. ... After the discovery, Kulanu and other Jewish organizations ventured to Lemba villages to understand the Lemba's history and practices and introduce the Lemba to mainstream Jewish beliefs and practices. Some Lemba began learning Hebrew and visited Israel; some renounced Christian beliefs. Others recast their traditional Lemba ceremonies as counterparts to traditional Jewish holidays... Still, the community as a whole appears to be at a crossroads. Some Lemba consider themselves Jewish while continuing to embrace Christian services and African rituals. ... Still, he [Tudor Parfitt] cautions, the question of whether the Lemba are Jewish has not been answered conclusively: 'DNA itself doesn't make anybody Jewish. All it can do is say something about their ancestry.' ... 'It doesn't constitute proof,' Rabbi Norman Bernhard, former president of the Southern African Rabbinical Association and a recognized authority on Jewish-Lemba relations, says of the genetic evidence. 'It raises a possibility, even a probability.'"
    Dean H. Hamer. The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into our Genes (Doubleday, 2004). Excerpt from page 192:

    "There is one [non-Jewish] group, however, for whom DNA analysis has provided a direct link to the Jews of biblical times. These are the Lemba, a southern African tribe who inhabit present-day South Africa and Zimbabwe. ... The Lemba believe they are descended from an ancient group of Jews who were led out of Israel by a prophet named Buba."
    A. B. Spurdle and T. Jenkins. "The Origins of the Lemba 'Black Jews' of Southern Africa: Evidence from p12F2 and Other Y-Chromosome Markers." American Journal of Human Genetics 59 (1996): 1126-1133.

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  119. Right, bob. And how many of them are Lawyers and Bankers and Dentists?

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  120. "The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into our Genes"


    Bob, I always says youz is a Joo. Taking all the credit, that's just a small part of it.

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  121. You can count on the Clinton's to always lead people away from the Promised Land! :)

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  122. "The Lemba believe they are descended from an ancient group of Jews who were led out of Israel by a prophet named Buba."

    Well, there you have it.

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  123. Well, lineman, they Iranians do not have one warhead, yet.
    Let alone four.

    If the US Navy allows four tramp steamers that laid over in Iran to approach the UScoast, unimpeaded, it's not because we didn't warn 'em, is it?

    The entire US Navy, beaten by four tramp steamers, that's a scenario of little respect for US capacities and capabilities if ever there was one.

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  124. Here's an article about Afghanistan by that brave lad Rory Stewart, who walked alone across Afghanistan, and wrote the book I mentioned some time ago, "The Places In Between" which painted the bleakest of bleak outlooks on most of the people and 'culture' there.

    Nice not to have to actually buy Time, to read the articles.

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  125. The heroin from Afghanistan. Must be a land route thru the arctic pole.

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  126. I'll bet Ash and I could bring a warhead in on his sailboat, if we were willing to die trying. It's a big coastline. Bring it in to British Columbia, jeep it the rest of the way.

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  127. Don't want to be belittling the US Navy, beaten by illiterate jihadis. That's a scenario of little respect for US capacities and capabilities if ever there was one. Maybe the CIA can help.

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  128. Hey, Bob, how did Clinton spell his name? Was it Buba, or Baba?

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  129. Hey Mat:
    They got quite a bunch of Nukes planned.
    How could that be if we were right about costs?

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  130. William ali baba bubba Clinton, I think.

    He spent 1001 nights telling tales about sex and adventure in high places and low.

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  131. They still planning one in Idehoe, Bob?

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  132. Yes, but the last community informational meeting was disrupted by the environazis. I'm not sure just where it stands. I'm not sure just who is backing what. Got a mailing from Senator Wide Stance, mentioning some French company getting involved. When some info comes along that's reliable I'll post it.

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  133. How could that be if we were right about costs?

    Doug, 90% of the cost and liability is made up by the gov. And even then, they gots almost none that will bite.

    "The US nuclear boom really got going in 2005, when Bush signed a new energy bill granting generous loan guarantees and tax allowances to companies applying for approval of new reactors."

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  134. Clever Idea to Market Safe Clean Nuclear Power from a Listener

    Just a note to re-mention that in order to market Nuclear Power to
    the country and the world, we need to rename it Nu-Clear energy! We
    need to let everyone know that if we all get on board, we can
    completely clear the air from anything man made within 10 years.

    Further, we need to re-state that the French are using this
    technology, and how could they be wrong?

    Further, we should allow Al Gore to state to the world that he
    invented it (like he invented the internet ). And when people
    begin to state that this is the same as Nuclear Energy, we have the
    opportunity to boast of the terrific improvements we have made in
    safety and recycling in the last several years.

    Nu-Clear Energy will save the world! It comes from the same
    "molecules" (don't say atoms) that powers the world. Al Gore
    discovered this (pay him $100 Mil to shut up) and let's all get on
    with it. The key here is that when people start calling it the same,
    we have the opportunity to be outspoken about how it's now!

    Win, win.

    And, Everyone in Congress can save face!!

    KGO, Dr. Bill

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  135. Apple Feels 'Max Pain'

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/85691-apple-feels-max-pain?source=yahoo

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  136. ""The US nuclear boom really got going in 2005, when Bush signed a new energy bill granting generous loan guarantees and tax allowances to companies applying for approval of new reactors.""
    ---
    If they did that w/Solar, the outrage amongst "conservatives" would be second only to their hysterical outrage re:

    SQUIGGLY LIGHT BULBS!

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  137. We're all gonna die:
    Somebody broke their evil lightbulb.

    Doug Urbanski, an otherwise intelligent man, just related (on my recorded Miller show) checking out of a long time favorite hotel due to the horrible green emanations:

    "Like an Embalming Room"

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  138. We'd not be able to afford our 30cents/kw bill w/o them.

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  139. Nevertheless, a beneficial and largely unambiguous trend is clear. Wood dominated the global energy scene through the 18th century. Coal dominated the 19th century. Oil dominated the 20th century. Natural gas will be the dominant fuel of the 21st century. And that’s good news. Just don’t expect to read about it in the newspaper.

    The Decarbonization of the World

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  140. If the US Navy allows four tramp steamers that laid over in Iran to approach the UScoast, unimpeaded, it's not because we didn't warn 'em, is it?

    You got it Rat. We sure as hell warned 'em.

    -------------------

    From my forthcoming novel, dedicated to and inspired by the desert rat:

    Ten Kilo Class submarines converge on an Iranian sub base in the Persian Gulf. Three are Iranian owned, the remaining seven are rented by Iran through secret negotiations from sympathetic regimes: Libya, Algeria and Venezuela. Under cover of darkness, four of the Kilos are loaded one-at-a-time with externally mounted cylindrical cargo containers, pressurized and coated with anechoic tiles to duplicate the sonar resistance of the Kilos themselves. Once all missile carrying subs are loaded, the entire subpack slips through the US Navy picket line at the Straits of Hormuz, and disperses, going deep, slowing, running silently to attempt to evade any pursuing US hunter/killer subs.

    Eventually, weeks later, four tramps rendevous with four Kilos on a dark moonless night somewhere in the southern reaches of the Indian Ocean and the South Atlantic. Pretext for the rendevous, if discovered, is refueling. Subs' external cargoes are transferred. Kilos disappear, restored to original configurations. Rental boats return to owners, Persian boats return to Straits. Tramps make their rounds, picking up innocent cargo here and there: used bicycles, bananas, rubber, scrap metal, coconuts, containerized cargo. Tramps fuel up for a final time, and head for east and west coasts of US. Firing platforms
    erected, missiles are mounted in darkness, ready to fire from international waters off coasts of DC, NYC, LA and Seattle.

    -----------------

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  141. Nancy Pelosi and that Boxer bitch, they are horses asses.

    No drill, no spill, they say.

    Dr. Bill is quoting a study from UC that shows that drilling reduces seepage, which makes a lot of sense when you think about it. Pressure causes oil seepage under the water in some places, drilling reduces the pressure, and the seepage.

    This occurs all over the world, Dr. Bill says.

    And, the figures are big.

    Reduce oil spillage, drill now!!!

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  142. In my opinion, Dr. Bill Wattenburg ought to be required listening, K through 12, all across America.

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  143. By the way, Dr. Bill thinks, based on his discussions with others in the nuclear bomb making business, that the threat of a terrorist bomb of some kind is very real, and "your life will never be the same again."

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  144. Bob, I've been a fan of Dr Bill since the late 60's, but most of the time I can't get the damned KGO signal. How the hell do you pick him up in Idaho? There's a zone by the Tehachapi Loop over on the road between Bakersfield and Mojave I can get him. That night he noted more radioactivity is released from coal plants than nukes, and occasionally I'm driving north past the Bay area, but at home it's just static.

    He grew up in a family of loggers, as I recall. Loggers if you're lucky enough to get to know 'em, are some of the brightest folks around. The smart ones. The dumb ones didn't used to last.

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  145. It's scratchy, but starts coming in after the sun goes down, maybe 9 or 10 pm. I've gotten good at getting the dial just right, and positioning the radio. I'm thinking of buying a better radio. I like the guy, too.

    Yes, he has woods background, he's got some dozers on the fire lines right now, he said the other night.
    And yes, he's always talking about how much radioactivity coal spews out.

    Maybe they aim the KGO antennas kind of up the coast, and I get the outside edge of that.

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  146. Now he's asking all the truckers up and down the coast to tune in tomorrow night--pass the word on your CB's boys--and listen to his report on some cockamemie idea coming from the California Air Resoursces Board to retrofit all the diesel engines in the country. They've already decreased fuel mileage by about 10% on the rigs, he says, by their earlier mucking around.

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  147. Is he on every night, or only on weekends?

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  148. It varies. KGO website has a schedule. Since Bernie Ward went to prison, he's been on a little more.

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  149. Bob, on your "Forest Service gives up" post:

    Gist of the article is all too true. Around here there used to be at least six mills. All closed. Local logs now, mostly from private land, have to haul over 150 miles, stump to mill to the remaining single mill. Woods crews, and their skills, have disappeared. Before the fires at Lake Arrowhead above San Bernardino, a local outfit that does mostly firewood had moved down to help deal with the backlogged bug killed pine fuel problem around the cabins. I tried to get him to cut some bugkill on my place, but he was too busy. What salvage logs they cut had to haul out to and over Cajon Pass, across the Mojave, over Tehachipe Pass to Bakersfield, and up the valley to that same mill. What value's left after you haul logs that far?

    My daughter lived in South Lake Tahoe before the fire. I couldn't believe the litter buildup around the cabins, and why they didn't clean it up. She said a lot of it was due to the paranoia in the Tahoe Basin about soil disturbance and siltation of the lake. Sounded goofy then, tragic now. I bet they rake their yards now.

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  150. Lot of small mills are gone from around here too.

    Well, I got to catch a z or two. Night.

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  151. Ah yes, Bernie Ward. Used to get him instead of Dr Bill on the few times I could receive KGO. Lying, liberal scumbag. Nice that Wattenberg gets some air time. Did you know Bernie used to be a Catholic priest? Factor that.

    Good night, Bob.

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  152. Livermore Lab Says Barrier Will Stop Truck-Bombs - Simple design uses pipes, blocks, cable

    Sometimes Dr. Bill had a Great Notion.

    Article also mentions his instabridges used at Northridge and Coalinga.

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  153. S.F. Once Shielded Suspect
    Man accused of killing a man and his sons was once a teen criminal shielded from deportation.

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