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Sunday, April 15, 2012

Anatomy of a Massacre




Stars and Stripes Logo

Confusion reigned in aftermath of Afghanistan massacre, even as spin had begun


NAJIBAN, Afghanistan — One month after Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales allegedly went on a killing spree here in southern Afghanistan, the saying that “the first casualty of war is truth” continues to hold true in the deaths of eight adults and nine children in the villages of Najiban and Alkozai.
In the days following the attack, in the Panjway district of Kandahar province, confusion reigned as villagers, local officials and officials from the U.S.-led coalition sorted through the grim details of the killings. The conflicting accounts of what happened in the early hours of March 11 are still being pieced together as Bales — whom U.S. officials have called the sole suspect — sits in a U.S. military prison at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., awaiting his first court appearance.
What’s clear, however, is that the narrative in Afghanistan of the most devastating civilian massacre of the decade-long U.S.-led war was shaped by several Afghan leaders who tried to exploit the massacre for political purposes. It’s also clear that a severe trust deficit mars the presence of U.S. forces in an area that American officials not long ago described as under control, and which they view as crucial to Afghanistan’s long-term stability.
Many local and international journalists faced challenges in their search for the truth behind the killings. In the fog of information — and with Afghan leaders including President Hamid Karzai under public pressure to respond to the tragedy — there was not just confusion but spin, disinformation and outright lies.
For reporters in Kandahar, news about the killings started trickling in shortly after sunrise that day. “Come quickly,” they were told. “There’s been a massacre.” They grabbed their notebooks and cameras, scrambled for their cars, and headed for Panjway.
Near the district center, a convoy carrying two senior Afghan officials — Haji Agha Lalai, the head of Kandahar’s provincial council, and Asadullah Khalid, Afghanistan’s minister of tribal and border affairs and formerly governor of Kandahar province — linked up with reporters. Their vehicles roared along a paved road that winds its way past fields and farms, flanked in places by hills and mountains. Soldiers and policemen stood to attention outside the many checkpoints and bases that punctuate the landscape.
Turning onto a dusty road, they came to the small but heavily fortified joint U.S.-Afghan base known as Camp Belambay. A crowd of local villagers sat nearby while Afghan soldiers stood guard at the main gate, nervously cradling their assault rifles.
The officials were ushered inside along with Afghan journalists who’d reached the scene. The dead, who had been shot and in some cases stabbed, lay shrouded in blankets just outside the base.
Khalid called President Karzai to report the news. “Are the media there?” Karzai asked him, according to two Afghan journalists who witnessed the phone call. “Make sure the media know. Make sure they see everything.”


A few journalists were taken the short distance to a nearby house at Najiban, where at least 11 of the victims were shot and stabbed. The mood inside was tense. On the way they passed a massive hole in the road. Villagers and Afghan officials have told reporters that this was the site of a homemade bomb blast that struck a U.S. armored vehicle a day or two prior to the slaughter.
They have also said that, prior to the killings, U.S. military personnel had threatened Najiban residents with retaliation for the bomb attack. U.S. officials later said they had no record of either incident.
“We don’t have any indication that … the attack that’s being described occurred, and certainly no evidence that there were any threats of retaliation by U.S. soldiers,” said a Pentagon spokesman, Navy Capt. John Kirby.
The discrepancy between the villagers’ claim and the response of the U.S. military is just one of many examples of confusion and disagreement that surround the killings.
According to the Afghan journalist, who works for an international news agency, Kandahar’s governor, Tooryalai Wesa, originally told local journalists that there were no casualties. Just as inaccurate was a Taliban spokesman’s claim that 50 villagers had been killed.
Meanwhile, Afghan government officials in Kandahar warned local journalists against reporting a high number of casualties.
“Sometimes (Afghan) officials downplay incidents,” the journalist said, “but we still report the truth.”
By the morning of Day Two, the numbers had settled at 16 killed and five wounded — U.S. officials would later charge Bales with 17 murders — but the motive behind the attack was far from clear.
“Why did this happen?” an elder from Panjway asked Agha Lalai in a meeting with villagers at his sprawling Kandahar compound. Agha Lalai couldn’t furnish a compelling answer.
“He was drunk,” an Afghan army colonel said of the killer. Few looked convinced.
As elders took turns to speak that morning there were varying accounts of the shooting spree. Some said they’d been told only one attacker was involved. Others said they’d heard that there were multiple attackers. One suggested that the shooter was a Republican trying to damage President Barack Obama’s re-election chances.
There was silence.
Earlier that day, Shah Wali Karzai — one of President Karzai’s brothers and a prominent local figure — seemed distressed but philosophical about the attack.
“You know, there are extremists in every country,” Shah Wali, a soft-spoken man who once lived in the U.S., told McClatchy Newspapers at his home. “There are also Afghans who are killing foreign troops in Afghanistan.”
He added: “We have to look at the bigger picture — fighting terrorism in Afghanistan. It would be a tragedy if the foreign forces left.”
On Day Three, it was obvious not everyone agreed with this sentiment. In Najiban, Shah Wali Karzai, his brother Qayum, Agha Lalai and Khalid led an official delegation to a memorial service for the victims. After prayers for the deceased, the delegation members rose one by one to speak in the courtyard of a mosque. Villagers who had gathered interrupted them frequently and vociferously.
“We don’t want these Americans here,” said one local, as U.S. helicopters thundered nearby and jets roared overhead. “We don’t want this base.”
Moments later, as the dignitaries left the mosque, gunfire and explosions erupted. “Taliban?” asked one reporter, as villagers and security men scrambled for cover. “Yes,” said a soldier. “Taliban.”
Some of the villagers have insisted that no Taliban are present in the area, and in January Maj. Gen. James Terry, then the commander of coalition forces in the area, told reporters that after intense operations against the Taliban, “we now control the decisive terrain that the insurgents have owned up until this point,” including Panjway.
But those claims seemed to evaporate in the lengthy firefight that ensued after the memorial ceremony. One Afghan soldier was killed and four others wounded.
Perhaps the most perplexing aspect of the massacre was the claims by some villagers that a large number of U.S. soldiers took part in the killings. Some have claimed — without evidence — that more than 15 servicemen were involved.
Dutch journalist Bette Dam, who spent a week in Kandahar investigating the killings, told McClatchy that “most of these accounts were coming from people who weren’t actually there or from people who were in the area but didn’t actually see the attack.”
One of the people Dam spoke to who said he’d witnessed the attack admitted his mind was “confused.” Another, a woman from Najiban who said her husband was murdered in front of her by a single U.S. soldier, claimed also to have seen a group of Americans outside the house in the dark.
Dam said she did not believe the people she spoke to were intentionally misleading her or had been pressured to give false accounts. Instead, she thinks the locals genuinely believe that there were multiple attackers because they’re so accustomed to night raids on their homes by groups of soldiers.
“One villager told me that every house in that area has been searched (by groups of soldiers) more than once,” said Dam.
Such is the antagonism and distrust toward U.S. forces that an Afghan soldier based at Belambay who reportedly told investigators he’d seen only one U.S. soldier leave the base that night was described as “brainwashed” by some local members of Parliament who backed the theory of multiple attackers.
A high-ranking Afghan army officer told McClatchy that Afghan investigators have seen a U.S. surveillance video that shows a single soldier leaving and returning to the base alone on the night of the killings. But skeptical Afghans have claimed the video could have been faked.
Given that level of distrust, perhaps no amount of evidence could have convinced skeptics that there was only one attacker.
Some Afghan officials appeared to be guided by political considerations in allowing the “multiple attacker” theory to gain traction. Meeting in the presidential palace with relatives of the victims five days after the killings, Karzai openly questioned the U.S. account of a lone gunman. Pointing to one relative, he said: “In his family, in four rooms people were killed — children and women were killed — and then they were all brought together in one room and then set on fire. That, one man cannot do.”
Yet the testimony Karzai relied on was from the same Panjway residents whom McClatchy and others had interviewed — people who had lost relatives but not witnessed the killings firsthand.
An even more incendiary allegation came from a delegation of Afghan parliamentarians who conducted their own inquiry. They said they had found that not only 15 to 20 U.S. soldiers had been involved, but that some of the deceased women had been sexually assaulted.
A group of relatives of the dead issued a press statement vehemently denying the claim and accusing the lawmakers of making it up for political advantage. The lawmakers subsequently appeared to drop the claim.
Karzai’s chief investigator, Gen. Sher Mohammad Karimi, the Afghan army chief — who had previously told an Australian TV news program that he believed the killer had one or two accomplices — told McClatchy that he had heard testimony from survivors that only one man was involved. Karimi said that this testimony was clear and consistent, and he conceded that a highly trained soldier could have committed the murders alone.
The people of Najiban and Alkozai may never accept this. They’ve told politicians and reporters that they have years of negative experiences with the U.S. military. They say that repeated night raids in particular have left them alienated, angry and afraid.
Karimi said that even if Bales is convicted as the lone attacker when he faces a court-martial in the U.S., the relatives of the Panjway victims might still suspect a cover-up.
“And even if he’s executed, people will say, ‘No, the U.S. is lying, they’re cheating us. He should be tried here (in Afghanistan).’ So, you cannot please (these) people.”
Stephenson, a McClatchy Newspapers special correspondent, was the first Western journalist to reach the scene of the massacre at Najiban, Afghanistan.

126 comments:

  1. On March 16, 1968, Charlie Company, 11th Brigade, Americal Division entered the Vietnamese village of My Lai. It was a "search and destroy" mission that degenerated into the massacre of over 300 apparently unarmed civilians including women, children, and the elderly.

    In the aftermath of the My Lai massacre, only one person, 2nd Lt. William Calley, was ever convicted of a crime. Despite 22 counts of murder and an initial life sentence, Calley only served three and a half years of house arrest.

    After being issued a dishonorable discharge, Calley entered the insurance business.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Crop insurance?

      I say that not to hit at Rufus, because I know he is a good mam.

      I am still really pissed at being called a coward and a draft dodger by Rufus.

      Delete
  2. We had business in Afghanistan to settle a score with AQ and their Taliban hosts. We had a score to settle with the Saudis and the Pakis.
    It should have taken six months and then we should have left with a promise to return as often as necessary. Instead we attacked Iraq and spent ten years accomplishing little of lasting value.

    The damage has been done. We need to leave. We need to mind our own business and if someone is foolish enough to make us their business, give them hell and come home.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Why don't we just use our big assets like the B-52 and pummel the assholes.

    Do you think I like reading about our dead, day after day?

    ReplyDelete
  4. Oh wait a minute, wasn't Rufus the total dumb shit that wanted to sell heroin and coke and crack to our sixteen year olds?

    I had forgotten that.

    ReplyDelete
  5. That is what the moron from Mississippi said, let us just sell killer shit to the kids.

    Just exactly what any good father or mother would wish to do.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Rufus the dumb fuck said, sell coke, heroin and cocaine to the kids.

    Rufus is the dumbest fuck that has ever been on the internet.

    ReplyDelete
  7. The first comment should be followed by the last.

    The correct reading is " Rufus the dumb fuck said..."

    ReplyDelete
  8. This is the Rufus that fell dead drunk off the bar stool, and joined the Marines and went to 'Nam' and killed people he didn't even know.

    ReplyDelete
  9. OMG, can you believe it? It wasn’t NATO at all but mostly the US that did most of the attacking in Libya. Why Hiilary and Peace Prize Lauriate Barack didn’t lie to us did they?


    WASHINGTON — Despite widespread praise in Western capitals for NATO’s leadership of the air campaign in Libya, a confidential NATO assessment paints a sobering portrait of the alliance’s ability to carry out such campaigns without significant support from the United States.

    The report concluded that the allies struggled to share crucial target information, lacked specialized planners and analysts, and overly relied on the United States for reconnaissance and refueling aircraft.

    The findings undercut the idea that the intervention was a model operation and that NATO could effectively carry out a more complicated campaign in Syria without relying disproportionately on the United States military. Even with the American help in Libya, NATO had only about 40 percent of the aircraft needed to intercept electronic communications, a shortage that hindered the operation’s effectiveness, the report said.

    Mounting an operation in Syria would pose a bigger challenge than the seven-month campaign that drove Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi of Libya from power, American officials said. Syria has a more capable military as well as a formidable array of sophisticated Russian-made air defenses that Pentagon officials say would take weeks of airstrikes to destroy.

    Also, the Syrian opposition is more disjointed and dispersed than Libya’s, making allied efforts to coordinate with the rebels more difficult, a senior NATO official said.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. .

      American support?

      After two to three weeks, there were reports that NATO was running out of ammo. Who do you think had to keep them supplied?

      NATO is a joke, a front organization. Without the US there would be no NATO. It is a political tool used by the US as cover to justify its foreign policy decisions. We do the same with the UN when we can.

      The latest I've seen is that since the US is striking out getting the UN to support action in Syria, they are looking at NATO to provide the political cover. It will be the same in Iran if it comes to that.

      When Obama said the Libyan war was needed for 'humanitarian' reasons you knew the BS was starting to flow. That he (they) were disingenuous about our part in the war is hardly surprising.

      .

      Delete
  10. Back in 1991, a coalition of international troops led by the United States and put together chiefly by President George H.W. Bush attacked Iraq in response to that country's invasion and occupation of Kuwait. One of the goals of the operation was to liberate Kuwait and hem in Saddam Hussein and Iraq.

    The active part of the war lasted a total of about 210 days; following the expulsion of Iraqi troops from Kuwait, allied forces moved into Iraq and quickly took control of the country, or at least of its international ambitions. After a cease-fire, coalition troops (mostly American) maintained no-fly zones, and more, and that seemed to be that (not exactly). Kuwait was free to get on with its life free of Iraqi interference.


    The first President Bush justified the move against Iraq by saying, "If history teaches us anything, it is that we must resist aggression or it will destroy our freedoms."

    Here's the latest news from Kuwait, the country we rescued:

    Kuwaiti lawmakers voted in favour of a legal amendment on Thursday which could make insulting God and the Prophet Mohammad punishable by death, after a case of suspected blasphemy on Twitter caused an uproar in the Gulf Arab state.

    Members of Parliament must vote on the proposal again in a second session and it would need the approval of the country’s ruler before becoming law.

    The amendment was backed by 46 votes, while four opposed it and others abstained. Those in favour included all 15 members of the cabinet.

    Blasphemy is illegal in Kuwait under a 1961 publications law and at present carries a jail term, the length of which depends on the severity of the comments and their perceived effect on society, lawyers say.

    Islamist MPs proposed toughening the law last month after authorities arrested a Kuwaiti man they said had defamed the Prophet, his companions and his wife on the Twitter messaging site.

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  11. It is really gratifying to know that we accomplish so many wonderful things for democracy and freedom with all our glorious forays into the ME. It just keeps getting better and better.

    God bless America and death to the infidels.

    We have protected the Prophet Mohammed from slander and those that sully allah, in all his glory, will be put to death for the audacity of thought and the perfidy of expression.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Yasser Arafat knnew the plan... Stab or small pistol shot one jew a day. Terrorize them. Do not kill more than one at a time, one a day as to not allow the Israelis the excuse for a major military action.

    Arafat actually instructed his murderers to target Jewish women, that way they got the bonus of killing off the child producers.


    In afpak? drip, drip, drip, kill one US soldier a day, every day, one here, one there, not enough to provoke a major response...

    But in Afpak the Taliban has a friend, his name? Obama.

    Obama has changed the Rules of Engagement to such a point that US troops cannot easily kill the enemy.

    so the drip, drip, drip goes on, and the US troops get squeezed everyday

    I's amazing that there are not MORE outbursts by US troops.

    AMerica needs to have a clear mission in Afpak,

    However Obama USE of Afpak is and was to be a teachable moment, that America should never try to defeat a moslem nation/people and that the use of US military force cannot win a war.

    He has accomplished his mission, CUCKHOLD AMERICA

    ReplyDelete
  13. Those children in the videos, those recounting being shot and witnesses to the murder of their families by a US soldier sure had a teachable moment.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Moron politicians instigate these actions without any proper understanding of what should, or must be done to deal with the problem, or the will to use the force necessary to get it done. The military is sent in without the resources, or freedom of action required and often without any definite objective. The people on the scene do the best they can, within these constraints, but without a specific goal, the means and freedom to do what it takes to reach the goal, their effort is largely wasted. With a few exceptions, this has been the history of American military actions, since the bombing of Nagasaki.

    ReplyDelete
  15. So Biden gets 21000 a year rent from the secret service so they can protect him.

    Have you seen The Obama and Biden tax returns and their charitable donations?

    Bleeding heart tight wads

    ReplyDelete
  16. You know, I've been doing some serious thinking.

    Let's face it.

    The war on bank robberies just hasn't worked.

    Why, there was a bank robbery on 21st Street just 3 days ago.

    Legalized bank robberies!

    bobbo

    ReplyDelete
  17. You know, I am so tired of Christian 'pastors'.

    They suck off the yearning for something more by the people.

    Outlaw Christian 'pastors'.

    I think I'll have a drink now, to get the day off to a good start.

    bobbo

    ReplyDelete
  18. You know, I am so tired of Christian 'pastors'.

    They suck off the yearning for something more by the people.

    Outlaw Christian 'pastors'.

    I think I'll have a drink now, to get the day off to a good start.

    bobbo


    The war on bank robberies just hasn't worked.

    Why there was a bank robbery just three day ago on 21st Street.

    Legalize bank robberies.

    I am going down to the pharmacy now to buy some H.

    When they open.

    We have won the 'war on drugs'.

    If I don't call you back, I'm dead in my bath tub, like Whitney.

    bobbo

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. .

      Is that Preparation "H"?

      As for that drink, sounds like you had enough.

      .

      Delete
  19. .

    The Spanish Civil War


    PRESTON BEGINS by showing us just what class war, that bogey of American political rhetoric, actually looks like. The lesson of interwar Europe is that there is no political magic in the untamed marketplace. From Poland’s Galicia in the east to Spain’s Galicia in the west, conditions of radical inequality conspired with weak state institutions to turn the energy of capitalism against democracy by generating support for the far Left and the far Right, especially during the Great Depression. In what were still predominantly agrarian societies, only land reform might have taught peasant majorities that they had something to gain from voting and paying taxes. Without it, peasants would support anarchists or communists who promised them relief from the state’s apparently senseless demands, while landholders consolidated their economic power in an antidemocratic reaction. In Spain, the rich sought and found ideologies to mask their interests and champions to protect them. In the 1920s, the dictator Miguel Primo de Rivera reassured the owners of estates by condemning reformers as alien to the nation. In his view, anyone who supported any sort of change in the countryside was a communist, and communists were not proper Spaniards.


    It all sounds kind of familiar.


    Religion and Politics, What could Possibly Go Wrong

    .

    ReplyDelete
  20. Me an' Trayvon, we roughed up the old man down the street we got twenty dollars we goin' to the pharmacy we be suckin' on the pipe this a.m.

    bobboYou know, I am so tired of Christian 'pastors'.

    They suck off the yearning for something more by the people.

    Outlaw Christian 'pastors'.

    I think I'll have a drink now, to get the day off to a good start.

    bobbo


    The war on bank robberies just hasn't worked.

    Why there was a bank robbery just three day ago on 21st Street.

    Legalize bank robberies.

    I am going down to the pharmacy now to buy some H.

    When they open.

    We have won the 'war on drugs'.

    If I don't call you back, I'm dead in my bath tub, like Whitney.

    bobbo

    ReplyDelete
  21. Fuck the Spanish rich.

    Long live death!

    Slogan of the Spanish anarchists.

    Me an' Trayvon, we roughed up the old man down the street we got twenty dollars we goin' to the pharmacy we be suckin' on the pipe this a.m.

    bobboYou know, I am so tired of Christian 'pastors'.

    They suck off the yearning for something more by the people.

    Outlaw Christian 'pastors'.

    I think I'll have a drink now, to get the day off to a good start.

    bobbo


    The war on bank robberies just hasn't worked.

    Why there was a bank robbery just three day ago on 21st Street.

    Legalize bank robberies.

    I am going down to the pharmacy now to buy some H.

    When they open.

    We have won the 'war on drugs'.

    If I don't call you back, I'm dead in my bath tub, like Whitney.

    bobbo

    ReplyDelete
  22. You know, I am so tired of Christian 'pastors'.

    Amen Brother

    You know, I am so tired of Christian 'pastors'.

    Amen Brother

    ReplyDelete
  23. General Roja was one of the few that went against the military in the Spanish Civil War.

    He survived and at the end of it he went to some S. American country.

    Fuck the Spanish rich.

    Long live death!

    Slogan of the Spanish anarchists.

    Me an' Trayvon, we roughed up the old man down the street we got twenty dollars we goin' to the pharmacy we be suckin' on the pipe this a.m.

    bobboYou know, I am so tired of Christian 'pastors'.

    They suck off the yearning for something more by the people.

    Outlaw Christian 'pastors'.

    I think I'll have a drink now, to get the day off to a good start.

    bobbo


    The war on bank robberies just hasn't worked.

    Why there was a bank robbery just three day ago on 21st Street.

    Legalize bank robberies.

    I am going down to the pharmacy now to buy some H.

    When they open.

    We have won the 'war on drugs'.

    If I don't call you back, I'm dead in my bath tub, like Whitney.

    bobbo

    ReplyDelete
  24. Christian pastors are actually the best and few people keeping the glue going that is holding our society together.

    Rufus is an idiot.

    But, I have said that already.

    I am going back to bed.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Out o curiosity, anyone here willing to make the case that Guernica (Picasso) is a masterpiece?

    Or just the over-rated scribbling of an old man who lost his crack pipe? (If I got my hip slang correct.)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Much of great avant-garde art is shocking. It is meant to be. People assume that art should be conservative, pastoral, contemplative, etc. and seem threatened when it shocks or offends the senses. However, all art should be emotional or it is merely decorative, pleasant wall paper, to be felt more than noticed. New and shocking things can be conveyed successfully in art. Many artists, as they grow in age and confidence reduce their work to a visual shorthand. Look at the early work of most great artists and it is usually far more conservative and safe than their later work. Guernica, love it or hate it is a materpiece. It is not meant to be pretty. The American Civil War was the first and early hint at where modern and mechanized warfare was going. The slaughter factories ratched the violence up during WWI and the Germans saw an opportunity to expand the use of new technology in the Spanish Civil War and did so in 1936. Picasso was commisioned to do a work for the Spanish Pavillion for the World Trade Fair in 1937. World Trade fairs are quaint by today’s standards but were centerpieces for technology and futuristic views of the world. Guernica was Picasso’s ironic look at the abuse of technology in modern warfare. Put it in the same context as “Slaughterhouse five, but much more angry and raw. Of course, the conservatives hated it.

      If you want to learn more about the subject, there was a great PBS series and a book called “The Shock of the New”. Try it.

      Delete
    2. Never understood that context. I could never elicit a finely tuned enough response to tell if the objection was esthetic or ideological.

      Delete
    3. "How can anyone in his right mind like that crap!?!?"


      I was sort of shocked.

      Delete
    4. The term “abstract art” is confusing. People equate it with work that makes no sense.

      Delete
    5. All great artists have painted shit pieces of work. Almost all of it has been thankfully over-painted or trashed. I have seen some unfortunate wrecks that should have been trashed, often in art museums.

      Delete
    6. I said (or should have) semi-abstract rendering - in statuary and wall hanging art. If anyone asked my opinion, Jackson Pollock was a fraud and Andy Warhal was over-rated. Most of the semi-abstract work that appeals to me is commercial.

      Delete
    7. Rger that on Pollock and double you on Andy Warhall.

      Delete
  26. Bob
    Kindly lighten up on your Rufus tirade. It's boring. Thank you in advance

    ReplyDelete
  27. My "Christian pastor" informed me that I was a worthless little shit who didn't deserve god's mercy but he was going to give it to me anyway because he was that good. The quality of mercy might not be strained in the Christian church but it seems diluted. I never looked back. Not once.

    ReplyDelete
  28. It is so cool and popular today to attack and criticize Christians and Evangelicals. Have at it. But whatever you do, not under any circumstances utter or type the word "nigger."

    ReplyDelete
  29. I mean the good Christian pastors, and not the ones like 'Rev.' Wright, who just tries to stir up hatred.

    And lives in fancy digs while doing it.

    ReplyDelete
  30. You don't get to "Choose" your race, Gag. That's why racial slurs are so wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  31. That was 40 years ago. Wasn't popular then.

    Nigger.

    I believe that's what the boyz in da hood call each other.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Max
    Your Christian pastor lied to you. Or at least was severely misguided in his theology. I am sorry you were exposed to his ignorance.

    ReplyDelete
  33. I am sorry you have had a bad experience, Maxine.

    I mean that.

    When I was out at Good Sam, Pastor Braun came by, hobbling in like he did, an older guy, like me, to share our sorrows.

    We prayed, unashamedly, for some of the members, and for ourselves too.

    God Bless we even held hands!

    Can you believe it! I hardly could.

    :)

    He did not, nor would he ever, say I was damned if I did not see things just his way.

    It is people like that I wish to stand up for, and with.

    bobbo

    ReplyDelete
  34. I wish to add, everyone is welcome in our church.

    Everyone!

    We are just a 'Christian community' trying to help one another
    .

    I am sorry you have had a bad experience, Maxine.

    I mean that.

    When I was out at Good Sam, Pastor Braun came by, hobbling in like he did, an older guy, like me, to share our sorrows.

    We prayed, unashamedly, for some of the members, and for ourselves too.

    God Bless we even held hands!

    Can you believe it! I hardly could.

    :)

    He did not, nor would he ever, say I was damned if I did not see things just his way.

    It is people like that I wish to stand up for, and with.

    bobbo

    ReplyDelete
  35. I thought Bob's race rhetoric had been interpreted as satire - heavy-handed, but satire.

    Re the pastor thing

    I should have said "words to that effect." I am traumatized and emotionally crippled, but not from that. It's the metaphor part of religion that leads many into temptation. I will lend a thoughtful ear to the metaphorical message of Christian belief but I have no use for (a) literal interpretations that lead to (b) requests for money and (c) proclamations of the One True Faith and (d) demands for political parity in government institutions.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Picasso seems to be trying to define his role and his power as an artist in the face of political power and violence. But far from being a mere political painting, Guernica should be seen as Picasso’s comment on what art can actually contribute towards the self-assertion that liberates every human being and protects the individual against overwhelming forces such as political crime, war, and death.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. .

      ...art can actually contribute towards the self-assertion that liberates every human being and protects the individual against overwhelming forces such as political crime, war, and death.


      If that's what you're looking for, I'll take Goya.


      .

      Delete
    2. Or Edvard Munch:

      I was walking along a path with two friends – the sun was setting – suddenly the sky turned blood red – I paused, feeling exhausted, and leaned on the fence – there was blood and tongues of fire above the blue-black fjord and the city – my friends walked on, and I stood there trembling with anxiety – and I sensed an infinite scream passing through nature.

      Delete
  37. There is a subtext in conservative thought that hates abstract art. Raise the subject and the response is near immediate almost knee-jerk. Even Guernica is not immune. As if the mere act of abstraction is a metaphor for something ... bad.

    ReplyDelete
  38. .

    The more I read about the Florida "Stand Your Ground" law as well as the legal definition of 2nd degree murder, the more I think Bob may get his wish and Zimmerman be freed. It is a goofy law and worded such that in most cases it appears the only ones in jeapardy of being sued are the police and the local government.

    I am surprised it hasn't been challenged in the Supreme Court as it appears in some instances to go against the Florida constitution. It encompasses 'three strikes your out' but in the opposite direction. Zimmerman will have about three opportunities for this thing to get thrown out. And at the end of it, unlike all other murder cases, if he is found innocent on criminal charges he can't be sued civilly even though he is the one who initiated this whole incident.

    Zimmerman, IMO, is a friggin moron; however, he will likely walk.

    It's nutz.

    .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. and Tayvon was a thug in training...

      IMO....

      Maybe if ZImmerman had sued the day after the shooting the family of Trayvon for medical expenses, battery & negligent parenting things would have been different.

      From now on, ALL victims of gang/youth robberies should file charges against the perp even if he or she is dead.

      Delete
  39. He told The Associated Press in a phone call that the insurgent group had planned the assault for two months to show the extent of their power after being called "weak" by NATO forces.

    "We are strong and we can attack anywhere we want," he said, adding that the assault was in advance of the insurgency's spring offensive, which would be announced soon.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/15/afghanistan-taliban-kabul-coordinated-attacks-2012_n_1426497.html

    What's there to say??

    ReplyDelete
  40. He told The Associated Press in a phone call that the insurgent group had planned the assault for two months to show the extent of their power after being called "weak" by NATO forces.

    "We are strong and we can attack anywhere we want," he said, adding that the assault was in advance of the insurgency's spring offensive, which would be announced soon.

    Link

    ReplyDelete
  41. He told The Associated Press in a phone call that the insurgent group had planned the assault for two months to show the extent of their power after being called "weak" by NATO forces.

    "We are strong and we can attack anywhere we want," he said, adding that the assault was in advance of the insurgency's spring offensive, which would be announced soon.

    ReplyDelete
  42. When government rules from the fringes:

    This decision makes a large example, and the most significant thus far, of the way an expansionist foreign policy based on coercion and violence has returned on us and come to haunt Americans. We have a right-wing practice of foreign policy that is reliably backed by the party of wars and prisons, and a left-wing theory of universal treatment that is backed by the party of speech codes and cultural sensitivity. Conquer them in order to improve them, says the first party. Be sure to treat everyone the same, replies the second -- for surely we are no better than the countries we occupy. The safety we secure by arms abroad we must likewise enforce on ourselves at home.

    Foreign policy has come home in the form of pepper spray, Tasers, and wiretaps. But there is a practice closer to the Florence case. A mass experiment in the reduction of political self-respect occurs and is reinforced every day, in every airport in the country, in the body scans and pat-downs performed by the TSA. Some of the latter work is necessary, of course, while a strip search of a man with a parking ticket is not necessary. Still, the common experience and the exceptional one are clearly related. The government wore people down and achieved acceptance of the first practice, and that prepared the way for official endorsement of the second. Once again, a political and moral aberration has been redescribed and turned into an approved policy.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-bromwich/strip-search-nation_b_1419252.html

    ReplyDelete
  43. The Authoritarian Catechism

    1. There are good people and bad people.

    2. A designated function of the police and prison officials is to determine who is good and who is bad.

    3. If you are arrested, it may safely be assumed that you are one of the bad.

    4. If, at the time of arrest or afterward, you protest your innocence loudly, or speak with indocility to an officer of the law, you have committed an offense graver than many crimes on the books.

    5. Breaches of politeness toward authorities form a legitimate part of a record stored up for future use regarding the conduct of all Americans.

    6. Authorities must keep such a record because Americans, through our tacit consent to laws passed or changed since 2001, have affirmed that we think nothing more important than our safety.

    7. The duty to keep America safe, and to "protect" all Americans, outweighs the duty to see that existing laws under the Constitution are faithfully executed. Apparent violation of an existing law by a designated authority, so long as it can be seen as consistent with the higher duty of the maintenance of safety, is itself a sufficient reason for a change of law to accommodate the violation.

    8. When not already effected by Congress, such changes will be executed by the Supreme Court.

    9. There is a proper trade-off between unalienable rights and collective safety, just as there is a trade-off between the moral commandment not to commit injustice and the human desire to live as long and comfortable a life as we possibly can.

    10. Whenever safety and comfort require that injustice be done to individuals, injustice is tolerable and should be supported by other Americans.

    11. For an accused person, there is a correct and an incorrect posture.

    12. The incorrect posture is to be indignant at things done to you, such as the imposition of unnecessary force or humiliation. The correct posture is to be grateful to authority for the things that have not yet been done.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. is that yours?

      Why are Americans so docile and put up with this? I have been told on this blog that if I didn’t like the methods of the TSA, forgo travel by air.

      Delete
    2. No - from the preceding link. (I'm a "librarian" - not a creative bone in my body sorry to say.)

      But good question. I remember that was DR said that. I'm disagreeing.

      Delete
    3. Den Mother. May the Rat RIP.

      Delete
    4. let the dead, gone and vaporized stay that way.

      Delete
    5. .

      Why are Americans so docile and put up with this? I have been told on this blog that if I didn’t like the methods of the TSA, forgo travel by air.


      A lot of weird rumblings come out of Idaho.


      Some have suggested it is the water.


      .

      Delete
    6. .

      It is amusing that those who scream we must protect the 'rights' of every piss-ass country in the world are so willing to give up thei own rights in this country.

      The same dicks who indignately call people pussies for not supporting acts of war against authoritarian regimes around the world think rights abuse here is necessary in order to 'protect' their asses.

      The irony is palpable.

      .

      Delete
    7. After taking an FBI / WMD outreach workshop on Thursday, I now think twice about the methods of the TSA.

      I guess hearing and seeing it first hand makes a big difference for me.

      Delete
  44. ***********************************************

    The US has learned a lot about security from Israel. Strip searches are common entering and exiting Israel.
    http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/childabuse.html
    "While organizations that focus on Israel-Palestine have long been aware that Israeli border officials regularly strip-search men and women, If Americans Knew appears to be the first organization that has specifically investigated the situation. In the course of its investigation on searches of women, If Americans Knew was astonished to learn that Israeli officials have also been strip-searching girls as young as seven and below.

    According to interviews with women in the United States, Israel, the West Bank and Gaza, Israeli border officials periodically force Christian and Muslim females of all ages to remove their clothing and submit to searches. In some cases the children are then “felt” by Israeli officials.

    Sometimes mothers and children are strip-searched together, at other times little girls are taken from their parents and strip-searched alone. Women are required to remove sanitary napkins, sometimes with small daughters at their side. Sometimes women are strip searched in the presence of their young sons."

    **********************************************

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What a biased load of crap....

      Strip searches are common entering and exiting Israel.

      Common? What is a "common"?

      How many hundreds of thousands are not strip searched.

      "if Americans knew"? is a bullshit organization.

      IF Americans KNEW that Palestinians HIDE bombs up the asses and vaginas of their women, put explosives in their bras, in the diapers of their babies maybe they would not GIVE A SHIT..

      Or maybe Americans KNOW what kind of savages Israel is dealing with.

      If Americans KNEW that suicide bombers come in all shapes and ages from the mutant population called "palestine" maybe they would applaud Israel's vigilance.

      MOST of the searches described are from Arab check points that are for Arabs seeking to enter Israel and yes they HAVE Israeli women that do searches of the arab women.

      No one FORCES Arabs to travel into another nation, maybe if the searches are so terrible? Those arabs that seek the destruction of the state of Israel can CHOOSE not to visit...

      Delete
  45. Juan Cole on Iran policy:

    What that demonstrated was simple enough: ruling cliques with ownership of a valuable industry like petroleum can cushion themselves from the worst effects of an international boycott, even if they pass the costs on to a helpless public. In fact, crippling the economy tends to send the middle class into a spiral of downward mobility, leaving its members with ever fewer resources to resist an authoritarian government. The decline of Iran’s once-vigorous Green protest movement of 2009 is probably connected to this, as is a growing sense that Iran is now under foreign siege, and Iranians should rally around in support of the nation.

    Strikingly, there was a strong voter turnout for the recent parliamentary elections where candidates close to Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei dominated the results. Iran’s politics, never very free, have nevertheless sometimes produced surprises and feisty movements, but these days are moving in a decidedly conservative and nationalistic direction. Only a few years ago, a majority of Iranians disapproved of the idea of having an atomic bomb. Now, according to a recent Gallup poll, more support the militarization of the nuclear program than oppose it.

    Link

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. .

      Iran has been moving to a more authoritarian models for the past couple years. The last elections there not only indicated the waning of the Green Movement but also showed Khamenei's dominance over both Ahmadinejad and Rafsanjani.

      .

      Delete
    2. Too many Khamenei's.

      I take it the current Khamenei is unrelated to the 1979 Khomeini. I never noticed the difference in spelling and always assumed a blood relationship. Also didn't know Rafsanjani was an ayatollah.

      Khamenei has issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons.

      Delete
    3. Well we had two Ghandi’s and one went nuclear, the other a pacifist. Where is your sense of humor?

      Delete
  46. But does a law like Florida's controversial 2005 statute "Stand Your Ground" -- which removes a person's duty to retreat from an assailant and allows the use of deadly force in any place the person has a right to be -- go so far as to authorize vigilante justice?

    Should "Stand your Ground" laws be repealed?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. .

      Don't know the specifics of all of them. However, Florida's should be repealed or modified.

      .

      Delete
  47. That law should not be even relevent to Zimmerman. Like it or not, he was standing in as a proxy police authority figure. Thats is where the problem is. He probably identified himself in the role as an authority figure and the brother wasn’t buying it.

    “Stop I am the law.”

    “Fuck you asshole. You aint shit.”...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You dont KNOW that as fact...

      He could have JUST as likely thought, Hmm there is a fat old white guy I can rob...

      This is why the story that is coming out that Tryvon circled around and attacked Zimmerman..

      What we DO know? One 6 foot 2 thug wannabe self described "nigga" is dead.

      I wonder will the parents melt his gold grills down and sell them for cash?

      They might need the cash for all the lawsuits for all the victims that Trayvon has beat down now that he is ID'd

      No sympathy for Trayvon...

      Maybe the Thug-wannabe community will learn not to fuck with fat white guys...

      we are armed.

      Delete
    2. let's have an autopsy results released to the public, was Trayvon on crack, coke or meth?

      Delete
  48. Zimmerman never should have been packing. Bill Cosby is right - no guns for the community patrol.

    Totally different outcome.

    Zimmerman would have had a bad headache.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. how the fuck do you know that?

      simpletons.

      Delete
    2. Without guns they both would have been alive since neither seems to have been equipped with the hard-bodied James Bond killer bod. Both would have had headaches - over the lawsuits.

      Delete
  49. I carry when necessary, but for my benefit only. I would avoid confrontation. I have no problem crossing the street or shifting to reverse.Trapped inside my car or in an alley, I would stand my ground because I had no other choice. The law strikes me as a tad too beligerent and leads to indiscretion.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. how do you know zimmerman wasnt attacked?

      calling 911 and looking for a street address and speaking to the cops telling them he wanted to meet them aint confronting anyone..

      Delete
  50. It don't work.

    My daughter got raped.

    She is now armed, and she can kill.

    If the threat were ever to arise again, she will pull the trigger.

    Little Smith and Wesson, pink style, even things up.

    ReplyDelete
  51. When I found out that she had been raped, and she didn't tell me for nearly a month, fearing I guess that I might kill the bastard, when I found out, we all went to concealed carry class.

    You should do it too.

    The hell with ass holes like Trayvon.

    The simple fact of a gated community says one hell of a lot about things.

    From Campbell, I know the first 'gated communities' were in the mid east, for protection from the fellaheen, the dung burners.

    bobbo

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Pink Smith and Wesson.

      Every young girl should have one.

      Evens things up.

      When I found out that she had been raped, and she didn't tell me for nearly a month, fearing I guess that I might kill the bastard, when I found out, we all went to concealed carry class.

      You should do it too.

      The hell with ass holes like Trayvon.

      The simple fact of a gated community says one hell of a lot about things.

      From Campbell, I know the first 'gated communities' were in the mid east, for protection from the fellaheen, the dung burners.

      bobbo

      Delete
  52. Something like 27 states have similar laws.

    There must have been a signal event leading to the removal of "duty to retreat," and not necessarily in FL, but I've not seen it described anywhere. Could be a story behind these laws. Or not.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. .

      No signal event, merely the NRA. To them, no gun law is acceptable.


      ,

      Delete
  53. Individuals fine, with hoops re training etc but community patrol, no.

    ReplyDelete
  54. That General in the Spanish Civil War was Rojo, not
    Roja.

    If you wish to read some really good stuff about the Spanish Civil War, Hemingway is good about that.

    He was trying to make some money, but his newspaper writing were very good about that.

    bobbo

    ReplyDelete
  55. The best book I have read about the Spanish Civil War is by Hugh Thomas "The Spanish Civil War".

    That is where I got my knowledge about General Rojo.

    From that, and reading Hem's messages from Madrid.

    That General in the Spanish Civil War was Rojo, not
    Roja.

    If you wish to read some really good stuff about the Spanish Civil War, Hemingway is good about that.

    He was trying to make some money, but his newspaper writing were very good about that.

    bobbo

    ReplyDelete
  56. So, who should Romney pick for VP?

    You all know my pick, that white skinned goddess from Wasila.

    Oh wait, she already has been there, done that.

    What about that black skinned guy from Florida?

    He would be good.

    Can they win?

    Yes!

    A Lutheran voting for a Mormon and a black?

    Think of it!!!

    ReplyDelete
  57. Bill Cosby argues that the Trayvon Martin debate should focus on guns rather than race, the AP reports. In an interview on CNN's "State of the Union" today, Cosby said that accusing George Zimmerman of racism solves nothing. "What is solved by saying, 'He’s a racist? That’s why he shot the boy.'" To Cosby, the real reason Zimmerman shot Martin is "this," he said, sticking out a finger like a gun barrel.

    "What is he doing with it, and who taught him and told him how to behave with this" weapon are important questions, said Cosby. He argued that the US must get guns off the streets, and teach people to exhaust all other alternatives before pulling the trigger.

    ReplyDelete
  58. "There is no reason to believe yet that we will make all the progress we want to make," said a senior American diplomat who took part in the talks. "This is a very difficult process.…It takes time to do these very complex things."

    ...

    Leading American lawmakers on Sunday countered that Congress would intensify sanctions if Tehran didn't immediately freeze its production of nuclear fuel.

    "We should not mistake positive diplomatic dialogue for compliance with U.N. Security Council resolutions," said a spokesman for Sen. Mark Kirk (R., Ill.), who has led congressional efforts to pressure Iran's finances. "The Senate should move forward with new bipartisan sanctions unless the Iranian government halts all uranium enrichment activities."

    ReplyDelete
  59. There's a profile of the late Andrew Breitbart in the New York Times "Sunday Styles" section by reporter David Carr. Carr's a talented and fair journalist, by Times standards, and the piece is mostly fair enough.

    ...

    If I'm wrong, David Carr is free to step forward to take responsibility for this parenthesis—and to defend it. If I'm right, we have here a striking example of the Times's irresponsibility and mean-spiritedness.


    Andrew Breitbart

    ReplyDelete
  60. Imtiaz Gul, an author and head of the Centre for Research and Security Studies, an Islamabad-based think-tank, said the incident was a huge embarrassment that demanded a full investigation. He said it appeared that the militants had received inside information about the location of their jailed colleagues.

    "This is unprecedented in the history of Pakistan. It's a huge embarrassment for the entire security apparatus," he said.

    "Militants always have the element of surprise on their side. But this also shows the lack of communication between the civilian and military bodies.

    ReplyDelete
  61. I remember how
    When I was a young man
    And the wind
    Swayed the trees
    I remember how
    My first love
    Clipped my toenails
    And popped a zit off my back
    An old man now
    I love the wind through the trees
    I am thankful when
    My wife clips my toenails
    And if there was a zit
    On my shoulder
    She would pop that
    Women!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Pardon me for being forward, but for a man who can go toe-to-toe with Quirk in creative exposition, zit-popping is decidedly sub-par imagery.

      Delete
  62. In the grand, effluvia-soaked tradition of Hollywood Babylon, Scotty Bowers' recent memoir, Full Service: My Adventures in Hollywood and the Secret Sex Lives of the Stars, lets it all hang out when it comes to exposing screen giants' erotic excesses.

    ...

    Here's his take on a love that back in the '40s dare not speak its name:

    The only thing that made them a little different than straight men is the fact that they enjoyed having sex with other men as well as with women. And, quite frankly, I saw absolutely nothing wrong with that.

    ...

    Again and again, Bowers' comes back to a basic message of tolerance for anything that's peaceful.

    I was simply providing a service to those who wanted it and, as recorded history has shown, throughout the ages there has always been a need for good, old-fashioned, high-quality sex. As I’ve said before, I don’t think there is anything wrong with that.

    ReplyDelete
  63. RE boys in the hood

    One last observation before dropping it, and don't know how common the knowledge is, but take a wild guess at the 'initiation rites' for the gals. The gang mentality is loathsome and destructive of individual aspiration as well as societal stability.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. for palestinians it's to murder a jew...

      for the gangbangers? sex with the group and a punch down by the older sistas

      Delete
  64. I remember how
    When I was a young man
    And the wind
    Swayed the trees
    I remember how
    My first love
    Clipped my toenails
    And popped a zit off my back
    An old man now
    I love the wind through the trees
    I am thankful when
    My wife clips my toenails
    And if there was a zit
    On my shoulder
    She would pop that
    Women!

    This could be improved upon, as no doubt our critic from Detroit would feel free to do, and the improvement might give the ladies some more stuff in life than clipping toenails, on the other hand, it is very human, and gives them their true due.

    Which is everything, which is what the poem is about.

    bobbo

    ReplyDelete
  65. Cosby stating guns should be taken of the streets is as lame as calling Zimmerman a racist. He offers no solution or how to. I am afraid guns will aways be part of the culture of this country. If we want to stop speeding and auto fatalities, should we stop making it easy to buy cars?

    ReplyDelete
  66. Cosby stating guns should be taken of the streets...

    Cosby's original public statement was that guns should be removed from pseudo-LEO groups like community watches, consistent with the rules for such groups, and I agree. He said nothing about individual gun ownership or carry and conceal.

    His most recent message is that the Martin shooting is not about race but about guns. I agree.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Cosby also believed in Tawana Brawley but carrying a gun takes a lot of discipline. Zimmerman may not have had it. Neither did Bales.

      Delete
    2. Here's the incendiary version. The Martin-Zimmerman case is blown out of proportion. Neither was a particular paragon of much of anything except average looking for trouble. Which still holds for the species as a general rule, except in this country we have guns.

      Bales, the subject of the thread, is a different and more disturbing event for obvious reasons. Training and discipline are required for military and all formal law enforcement groups.

      And the world is not perfect. May I get off now? The Martin-Zimmerman type killings will likely continue for a long time. Bill Cosby is correct to argue personal responsibility (I note he doesn't have a patent on pomposity in this country or this world or just about any space one cares to define.) But the Bales case requires more. In the fool's game of prioritizing death as a function of situational events, the Bales case exists somewhere well above Martin-Zimmerman.

      Delete
  67. "Today's discussions…were almost exclusively on the nuclear issue," said the U.S. official.

    Since the January 2011 meeting, the U.S. and EU have dramatically increased economic sanctions on Iran. Their actions have caused Iran's currency, the rial, to lose more than 50% of its value against the dollar over the past 12 months.

    Tehran, which currently has a frosty relationship with Turkey due to differences over the conflict in Syria, has voiced a preference to hold future talks in a friendly capital such as Baghdad. U.S. and European officials said Saturday that they willing to meet with Iraq provided Iran continues to show a willingness to negotiate.

    ReplyDelete
  68. What happened between the Barney fife Zimmerman and the gangbanger wannabe trayvon is not the problem. Cosby seems to be in denial about the alarming rate his on race is killing each other with unregistered guns. A much much bigger issue and the elephant in the room the black community including our wonderful president refuses to acknowledge

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. .

      Got to call you on this one Gag. I find Cosby to be a pompous ass at times and not all that funny even back when he was funny: but he's been called out by many blacks for his repeated calls for them to accept more responsibility for there actions. He gives speeches on a regular basis telling them to stop blaming others and look in the mirror.

      A simple google search on Cosby-responsibility-blacks should turn up a number of examples.

      .

      Delete
  69. 'takes a lot of discipline'

    Sometime maybe, but when you are getting raped in downtown Lewiston by an old drunk you shouldn't and couldn't care about 'discipline'

    Just pull the trigger on that Lady Smith.

    ReplyDelete
  70. 'takes a lot of discipline'

    Sometime maybe, but when you are getting raped in downtown Lewiston by an old drunk you shouldn't and couldn't care about 'discipline'

    Just pull the trigger on that Lady Smith

    bobbo

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. .

      Bob, you constantly miss (or ignore) the point. Zimmerman wasn't some guy walking to his car in a mall parking lot who gets surprised by some thug and accosted. He was tracking Martin through the neighborhood. He had no reason to do it. He had already reported Martin to the police and been told to back off. If Zimmerman had done his job as member of the 'neighborhood watch' and stopped at that Martin wouldn't be dead. Given that scenario, only a moron would try to blame this on Martin or excuse Zimmerman.

      Zimmerman may walk because of the way the Florida law is written but it doesn't do anything to reduce Zimmerman's responsibility in starting the whole incident.

      I rarely carry but if I lived in Florida I would all the time even while walking the dog through the neighborhood just because of assholes like Zimmerman.

      The last thing I need while I'm walking through the neighborhood is some jerk coming up to me and asking what I'm doing there.

      I assume you can imagine what I would say to the guy.

      .

      Delete
  71. Obama has his excuses. State and local governments are supposedly at fault for not hiring more.

    ...

    The president doesn’t realize how lucky he is. There have been twice as many dropouts from the economy as jobs added since he became president.

    Were the dropouts counted as unemployed, the jobless rate would be well above 11 percent. And Obama would be hard put to come up with an excuse.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. Oh, you meant to reply to Bob.

      Delete
  72. Quirk, I think your affirmations will come out at a trial.

    I don't know the truth of any of it.

    The defense attorney will make his case.

    The prosecutor will try to hang Zimmermann.

    I am glad I am not in Zimmermann's shoes.

    They are not good shoes to be wearing.

    I have armed up my two women, and I am glad I have.

    I have told them, pull the trigger.

    They will, I think.

    They have a right to walk the street unmolested.

    If I ever get back to Ohio, which is going to happen soon, though I'm not really in favor of the idea, but like the idea of the trip, I am going to buy a therapy horse or a therapy dog, or both.

    Both.

    Two German Sheps.

    I won't be living in a gated community, I wouldn't like that much, but the idea is becoming more attractive.

    :) bobbo

    ReplyDelete
  73. Two German Sheps

    and a horse :)

    Quirk, I think your affirmations will come out at a trial.

    I don't know the truth of any of it.

    The defense attorney will make his case.

    The prosecutor will try to hang Zimmermann.

    I am glad I am not in Zimmermann's shoes.

    They are not good shoes to be wearing.

    I have armed up my two women, and I am glad I have.

    I have told them, pull the trigger.

    They will, I think.

    They have a right to walk the street unmolested.

    If I ever get back to Ohio, which is going to happen soon, though I'm not really in favor of the idea, but like the idea of the trip, I am going to buy a therapy horse or a therapy dog, or both.

    Both.

    Two German Sheps.

    I won't be living in a gated community, I wouldn't like that much, but the idea is becoming more attractive.

    :) bobbo

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And so she writes me back, unable to actually deny it, and says, that is not romantic, about picking zits, trying to change the subject, and says we had veal, and so I write her back, her tummy full of veal, and say, but then you said "Oh, there is another one!"

      She loved to pick my zits.

      :)

      Delete
    2. I made a major error, which I am angry for Quirk not picking up on --
      the poem should end with 'too'

      and then the word

      'WOMEN'!

      Delete
  74. Do you see O Quirk what my poem is about?

    As you are the only one here that would get it.

    It is about women, our giver of life.

    From whom we get everything.

    Such as they are.

    I have tried to put in there about the trees moving.

    Which is the theme of my little work.

    It is spirit, moving, from the women.

    They have given us everything

    ReplyDelete
  75. .

    I 'get it' Bob. And I wouldn't say your imagery is sub-par but merely not aesthetically pleasing, TO ME. But that is just me. Viewing art in any form is subjective and I'm a simple guy.

    Max brought up Guerera. I didn't know what it was until I looked it up. Supposedly a masterpiece yet I was not unduly impressed. Again, the appreciation of art is subjective. In general, I am not much taken by either modern art or impressionism. This despite the fact that I find some individual pieces in these genre interesting, even aesthetically pleasing. However, why should I need someone to explain to me the 'meaning' of the horse or the light bulb in Guerera when I can look at Goya's The Disasters of War series and see the meaning painted in stark reality?

    Naw, I'm an old guy Bob. Give me the the beauty, innocence, and memories of things past encapsulated in The Nut Gatherers. In a poem, give me some allusion,some memory,even some sex. But that's just me. I guess I'm a romantic (but definately not an art critic though I have played one on TV).

    .

    .

    ReplyDelete