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Sunday, March 18, 2012

Let’s Not Confuse AIPAC and Netanyahu with Facts.



Mossad 'agrees with US' on Iran nuclear goals
(AFP) – 4 hours ago


WASHINGTON — Israel's intelligence service Mossad agrees with US assessments there is no hard evidence that Iran has decided to build a nuclear bomb, even though Israeli leaders have talked about Tehran's plans to acquire nuclear weapons, The New York Times reported.


"Their people ask very hard questions, but Mossad does not disagree with the US on the weapons program," the newspaper quoted an unnamed former senior US intelligence official as saying.


"There is not a lot of dispute between the US and Israeli intelligence communities on the facts," the former official said.


The Times reported last month that the latest assessments by US spy agencies are broadly consistent with a 2007 intelligence finding that concluded that Iran had abandoned its nuclear weapons program.


According to Saturday's report, US spy agencies have spent years trying to track Iranian efforts to enrich uranium and develop missile technology, and they are watching for any move toward weaponization.


While the National Security Agency eavesdrops on telephone conversations of Iranian officials and conducts other forms of electronic surveillance, the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency analyzes radar imagery and digital images of nuclear sites, the paper noted.


Outside analysts believe high-tech drones prowl over secret Iranian installations, The Times pointed out.


Meanwhile, clandestine ground sensors, which can detect electromagnetic signals or radioactive emissions that could be linked to covert nuclear activity, are placed near suspect Iranian facilities, according to the report.


The United States also relies heavily on information gathered by inspectors with the International Atomic Energy Agency who visit some of Iran's nuclear-related facilities, The Times said.

126 comments:

  1. Who you gonna believe, Katie Couric, Ann Coulter or Lauren Lyster?

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  2. Is there anything more corrupting than Air Force One?

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  3. I prayed a few months ago and a Bush caught on fire. I Would never tell a whole lot of people where the place is. But to this day I Am pretty sure a God or something exists. It still kind of wierds me out.

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  4. BUT to be honest I didn't actually believe it until now.

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  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  6. Ruf feel asleep on the way home, after picking up his heroin, ecstasy, oxy, and crack at the corner store.

    If he lives, he'll probably check in later today.

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  7. Ruf's been picked up by the ambulance. He's OK. Breathing. Had a copy of The New York Times under his arm, which helped cushion his fall. He was cursing the Jews.

    He had been to Doyle's, after picking up his supplies at the pharmacy.

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  8. WASHINGTON — Israel's intelligence service Mossad agrees with US assessments there is no hard evidence that Iran has decided to build a nuclear bomb, even though Israeli leaders have talked about Tehran's plans to acquire nuclear weapons, The New York Times reported.



    The NYT's?

    they have been the paper of record..

    they predicted that north korea, pakistan were getting nukes?

    oh yeah, they along with the CIA, NSA never saw that coming.

    the track record of the NYtimes and American intelligence is somewhat terrible.

    and let us not forget Iraq and wmd's

    So parse the words, slime aipac and bib...

    you folks are full of crap.

    Iran is on a path, like it or not.

    whether they decide to put together the warheads with the missiles with the fuel aint the issue.

    they are building the nuke warheads, they are making the nuke bomb and they are making the icbms.

    oh and they are funding, supporting and paying for terror across the world.

    they are calling for the genocide of Israel, the death of America and the destruction of the west.

    ignore Iran at your own peril

    but if you thing that what the Mossad actually thinks is being printed in the NY times?

    your smoking some serious shit..

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  9. Watch the video. Identify one sentence that is wrong. It is not in America’s interest.

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  10. Think of what we missed

    Meghan McCain, MSNBC contributor and political pundit, gave a relatively revealing interview to Playboy this month.

    "I'm not private about anything," the daughter of Arizona Sen. John McCain told the magazine. "I love sex and I love men.”

    McCain said that had her father won the 2008 election, the White House would certainly be a different place with her in it.

    "You would have the craziest first daughter ever, who'd be making ridiculous headlines and hurting the administration every step of the way," she said. "That aside, I think Dad would have made an incredible president. The recession wouldn't have been as bad as it is now. We wouldn't be pulling troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq. I think morale in the military and in the country at large would be higher, and we'd be much further on the road to recovery.”

    The day before the 2008 election, McCain said, she "almost overdosed on Xanax."

    While McCain supports same-sex marriage, she's not gay. "I'm strickly dickly," she said, adding: "It might simplify my life if I were gay, but no. ... For me, it's an issue of civil rights. Who people want to sleep with and who they want to love should not have anything to do with government politics at all. And if you see me in a gay bar, it's only because they play the best music and my gay friends like to dance. Gay guys love me. It's the big boobs and blond hair.”


    With Mc Cain we would already be at war with Iran.

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  11. In an emotional meeting with relatives of the shooting victims, Karzai said the villagers’ accounts of the massacre were widely different from the scenario depicted by U.S. military officials. The relatives and villagers insisted that it was impossible for one gunmen to kill nine children, four men and three women in three houses of two villages near a U.S. combat outpost in southern Afghanistan.

    Karzai pointed to one of the villagers from Panjwai district of Kandahar province and said:

    "In his family, in four rooms people were killed — children and women were killed — and then they were all brought together in one room and then set on fire. That, one man cannot do."

    Karzai said the delegation he sent to Kandahar province to investigate the shootings did not receive the expected cooperation from the United States. He said many questions remained about what occurred, and he would be raising the questions with the U.S. military "very loudly."

    The U.S. military had no comment on Karzai’s remarks.

    The Afghan leader stressed that he wants a good relationship with the international community, but that it was becoming increasingly difficult in light of airstrikes that miss their targets, leaving civilians dead and raising opposition to night operations where troops raid homes looking for insurgents.

    "This has been going on for too long," he said at the presidential palace. "You have heard me before. It is by all means the end of the rope here. ... This form of activity, this behavior cannot be tolerated. It is past, past, past the time."

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  12. Among the former military commentators, journalists and Afghan politicians who believe that up to 20 US troops were involved is apparently President Karzai himself who has had the opportunity of hearing about the testimony of witnesses to the incident. Unsurprisingly he has said that the US army in Afghanistan is not cooperating with the Afghan investigation on the issue.

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  13. Mr. Karzai should demand that the "US get out, now!"

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  14. How's that Medicare working out for you, Bob?

    Had to face down any "Death Panels," yet?

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  15. Someone wants a world war with Iran, and they're gonna get it.

    They have the Battleship Maine, the Gulf of Ton Kin, and the WMD's as ideas for the next casus belli.

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  16. Hey it's St Paddy's Day another excuse for some violence, let's pick up some guns and shoot some stuff up!!

    Yea, yea the 99%........yea, yea, yea

    xxxxxx

    Mossad has it exactly right. There is no nuclear bomb program, there in peaceful Iran, which can't even project force beyond its own borders, rockets from Gaza into Israel notwithstanding, thanks to Iron Dome. We all know this. And Mossad has made sure there is no bomb program, because they use magnetic car bombs to blow up every Iranian nuclear scientist working on the program which doesn't exist that they can find. No program. Any more. No scientists, no program, comprende?

    Allah Bless The New York Times.

    I get most of my news from Sunny TV. She knows there is no bomb program. If there were, she would have said so by now, but, she has not said so. There is not even a missile program to put bombs on missiles. Or, rather, to put missiles under bombs.

    US spy agencies have spent years trying to track Iranian efforts to enrich uranium and develop missile technology

    See there?

    We've spent years in this effort tracking Iranian efforts, and for what?

    It is not a missile base they have been talking to Chavez about, but an amusement park. They are going to shoot little missiles up into the sky to entertain the kids.

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  17. I had to face down Big Nurse out at the Rest Home over my Naproxeum Sodium, Ruf. I got ticked off and left, with my wife's help, when the old bitch confiscated my pill bottle.
    I haven't had to face the death panels yet, obviously, or I wouldn't be writing, but I noticed some movement in Congress trying to get rid of the damn authorizing language.

    Say, you got any smack and ludes for me this morning? I feel a little, ah er, nervous or something.

    xxxx

    Hey it's St Paddy's Day another excuse for some violence, let's pick up some guns and shoot some stuff up!!

    Yea, yea the 99%........yea, yea, yea

    xxxxxx

    Mossad has it exactly right. There is no nuclear bomb program, there in peaceful Iran, which can't even project force beyond its own borders, rockets from Gaza into Israel notwithstanding, thanks to Iron Dome. We all know this. And Mossad has made sure there is no bomb program, because they use magnetic car bombs to blow up every Iranian nuclear scientist working on the program which doesn't exist that they can find. No program. Any more. No scientists, no program, comprende?

    Allah Bless The New York Times.

    I get most of my news from Sunny TV. She knows there is no bomb program. If there were, she would have said so by now, but, she has not said so. There is not even a missile program to put bombs on missiles. Or, rather, to put missiles under bombs.

    US spy agencies have spent years trying to track Iranian efforts to enrich uranium and develop missile technology

    See there?

    We've spent years in this effort tracking Iranian efforts, and for what?

    It is not a missile base they have been talking to Chavez about, but an amusement park. They are going to shoot little missiles up into the sky to entertain the kids.

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  18. Republicans rail against the "waste, fraud, and abuse" in Medicare, and then try to kill any attempts, such as this panel, to alleviate same.

    Republicans are just phony shits. What they really want is to do away with all social safety nets, including medicare. Nothing less will make them happy.

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  19. Then, the pubs beat the "drums of war," and beat on Obama when oil prices rise as a result.

    And, you swallow it all; hook, line, and sinker.

    Ye Gad.

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  20. All these ME wars end the same way and with the same results. We reduce our security and endanger our real nation interests, not those made up for us in foreign capitals and by their US agents.

    US citizens in these countries pay the price.

    We are no safer and the level of hatred towards us only increases. We provide the recruiting tools for those who hate us. They don’t hate us for our freedom. They hate us because we are always screwing around in places where we have no business. I know what the people of Pennsylvania would do if some foreign power was always meddling in our affairs, threatening us and always siding against us. It would not be pretty.

    The target of choice in an asymmetric world are soft and defenseless. Here is some poor bastard that paid the price for the insanity:

    Two gunmen on a motorcycle have shot dead an American teacher working at a language institute in a central Yemeni city, according to the region's provincial governor.

    Hamoud al-Sufi said the teacher had been shot in his car in Taez city on Sunday morning. He did not have details on who the killers might be, and said an investigation had begun.

    Much of Yemen saw a collapse of central state authority during the year-long uprising against the longtime leader Ali Abdullah Saleh, who stepped down as president last month.

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  21. Obama is no better. He is just another shitbird political self-aggrandizer bought and paid for by his masters.

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  22. Never said he was, Deuce; never said he was.

    It's just that I agree with his team of crooks more, right now, than I do with the Republican team of crooks.

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  23. But, and I hate to say this, I'm afraid that no matter which team of charlatans are in the White House, we're screwed.

    I really, really don't like what I see coming down the lane.

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  24. That's why I can't ever stay angry at Ruf for very long - he is clear eyed when it comes to crookery.

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  25. The crapper scrapper got caught.

    They ought to throw the book at him.

    Taking the plumbing from the crapper like that and selling it for scrap.

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  26. Against all odds, the assholes in the Administration might actually be able to cut off some of Iran's 2 1/2 million bbl/day oil exports.

    If they are able to, we aren't going to like it.

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  27. I'm reminded of the time when Edwards, who I believe was under indictment (he later went to prison for corruption,) was being challenged by David Duke for Gov of Louisiana.

    Bumper stickers started appearing all over the place that read:

    Vote for the Crook; It's Important.

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  28. Edwards Was re-elected. And, as I said, he did eventually go to prison.

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  29. The Neocon tax should increase from $20 per tank to the $35-40 range. Let’s see which politician, if any, has the temerity to mention it in front of his minders.

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  30. would have more time for putting banksters in jail.

    This is the emerging narrative: the rise of Christianity as a contextual answer to the current decline into domestic and international instability. It is a nasty knee-jerk pendulum-swing reaction to the results of "60 years of godless socialism introduced by FDR." Two examples.

    1. USA was financially drained by two pivotal events of first decade of the new millennium - 2001 (DR being more right than wrong about the Muslim objectives) and 2008. The Republican answer is to gut "entitlement" programs because the socialist government "forced" the private sector banking industry to engage in risky investment behavior. Christianity comes in through the front door with the suggestion that foreign policy should be conditioned on Christian affiliation in order to form a defensive block of allied Christian states in the ME. Christianity comes in through the back door on this one by alleging that the entitlement "culture" filled the void left by abandoning God.

    2. It is more than coincidence that the first highly publicized assault on the entitlement culture came through women's reproductive rights. Birth control pills. Half of America woke up wondering WTF??? The agenda to push Christianity front and center entered through the front door on this one with a brass band and singing angels. The single subtlety behind the resulting slut-fest was abortion, as Krauthammer astutely observed. (Others have suggested it is my underlying issue which it is not - I actually missed it until absorbing the attitude from the conservative space and ultimately Krauthammer.)

    Listening to that little puke Ralph Reed crow about his political clout, after being cited in the Abramoff scandal, is one of several reminders that religion as an organ of politics is little more than an exercise in tolerance of hypocrisy. Christian first. Citizen second. Republicans needs to be careful with this. So do the rest of us.

    So the Rush incident was all about "freedom of religion?" I am glad to hear that the Republicans still understand the concept.

    I'm done with that subject for awhile. People forget that it's one thing to dive deep into the philosophy of government vs god as an arbiter of human morality. It's something else to put fraudsters in jail. Until we learn how to put the powerful and the connected into a 6'x10' jail cell, the pulpit fist pounding served hot with spittled expletives will serve as little more than entertaining distractions to a population that will eventually be pushed into a more serious confrontational mode, otherwise known as revolution. The critical way forward is not through god's law, but man's law.

    ...

    RE: internet. PM is monitored - no doubt in my mind. In fact they might have as many people behind the screen as they do in front. Which is why I wonder about the real-world traction available to some of the more wacko thematic narratives that are emerging. It explains the Santorum campaign. It also explains this.

    Ann

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  31. What they really want is to do away with all social safety nets, including medicare.

    Exactly. I would go further and say that's *all* they really want. The rest is filler. To paraphrase Rufus, at least the Dems occasionally *want* something for their constituents. It happens.

    I really, really don't like what I see coming down the lane.

    Onward Christian Soldiers.

    Ann

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  32. The young lady turned M. Scheuer into a quivering puddle of jello.

    That interview reminded me of Germaine Greer and Bill Buckley.

    Ann

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  33. THAT young lady could turn a lot of us into a quivering puddle of jello. :)

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  34. Given my druthers, I think I'd come back as the son of a Saudi Prince.

    5 butt-ups a day?

    Hell, I'd do Twenty-five butt-ups to be that lucky.

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  35. That old saudi king must pinch himself every morning. No one can be that lucky.

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  36. Fareed Zakaria:

    “About once every 25 years, a new generation discovers the horrors of the bomb and the paradoxes of deterrence, and begins looking for a way out. But there are only so many times that one can present the apocalypse . . . so many beguiling alternatives to pursue and discard. Inevitably, the debate grinds to a halt pretty much where it began: affirming, while deploring, the necessity of relying on the balance of terror to preserve the peace.” That was Charles Krauthammer, writing in the New Republic in 1984. “Deterrence, like old age, is intolerable, until one considers the alternative,” he explained.

    Yet today it is the right that has decided that deterrence is a lie. Krauthammer, the Heritage Foundation, the American Enterprise Institute and others denounce containment and deterrence and would lead us instead to a policy that culminates in a preventive war. It is the right’s version of the nuclear freeze — a simple solution that actually doesn’t solve anything. Strikes on Iran would probably delay its program a few years while driving up domestic support for the government in Tehran and providing it with a much stronger rationale for pursuing nuclear weapons. Yet sophisticated conservatives insist that this route is preferable to deterrence.

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  37. Is Iran a Rational Actor?

    Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey are facing increasing hostility from the right wing for their views, backed by IAEA reports and U.S. Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, that sanctions and diplomacy are effective tools in preventing Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon.

    I'm going to guess that Obama might go down in history as a better pure-play politician than FDR. I further guess that the military will hold firm at nyet while the politicians do what they do for public consumption, which, in this case, means pressuring Netanyahu to chill.

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  38. It's perplexing. Everyone worries about Iran being able to block the Straits of Hormuz, and overlooks the fact that the loss of Iran's 2.5 Million bbl/day, alone, will create untold havoc upon the West.

    Somehow, all the best and brightest have convinced themselves that Saudi Arabia can make up for Iran's lost production. It's total nonsense.

    After a complicated accounting process it boils down to: Saudi Arabia can (possibly) make up for about 0.8 million bbl/day of lost Iranian production.

    That means we'll be 1.7 Million bbl/day short of where we are at present.

    I have no idea what that will translate to in "Dollars at the Pump;" but it will be a whole buncha lot.

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  39. It's perplexing.

    Two suggestions.

    It's a Republican campaign tactic. The ODS is worse than BDS.

    It gives the oil industry an advantage in the competition with alternatives. Perfect setting in a "we need jobs" economy. Saw the thinking with Keystone. Unemployment is their best friend.

    A third possibility is a third-front war will require a draft that will mop up the unemployed youth.

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  40. Ann Coulter today added to the chatter about a white knight riding in to swipe the GOP nomination at a brokered convention—and the Mitt Romney supporter is none too pleased about the prospect, reports Politico . "It looks like we can throw Jeb Bush's hat into the ring, along with Sarah Palin, as hoping to be chosen as the nominee after a contested convention," she said, adding that Bush "would be the worst of all candidates," "embarrassing," and bluntly concluding that "we don't need another Bush." She did, however, appear to agree with Bush's assessment of the focus on hard-right social issues, saying, "We shouldn't be prattling nonstop about contraception in the middle of an economic meltdown."

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  41. Speaking of bushes,

    Jenny, next time you flip your cigarette to pray, put it out first. :)

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  42. We don't need crazy, praying women burning down the country.

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  43. From bob's link to The Conservative Case Against Decriminalization:

    “Numerous studies find an association between cannabis use and psychosis.[4]”

    And war, and life in general. The "it's bad for you" argument won't work with marijuana.

    Are the addictive and dangerous aspects of these drugs sufficient reason to ban their recreational use?

    It's a balanced - not an absolute solution. Neither Kant nor Aristotle got caught in the crossfire of an AK-47 gangland shootout. When the banning threatens public security and well-being more than over-the-counter availability, any "fix" will have to be more "granular" than yea or nay to all of it.


    As a point of order, government-sponsored health care is scary. There is a slim chance that it might "work" but the reality is that the private sector was never going to "self correct" and, secondly, the corruption that destroyed Medicare was out of reach from any mitigating institutional intervention, what we are calling "too big to fix."

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  44. Benny Shanon, professor of cognitive psychology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem wrote a paper, "Biblical Entheogens: a Speculative Hypothesis", in the philosophy journal Time and Mind, which suggests Moses may have been under the influence of a hallucinogenic substance when he witnessed the burning bush.[24][25] In the abstract, Shanon states that entheogens found in arid regions of the Sinai peninsula and in the south of Israel (i.e. Negev) were commonly used for religious purposes by the Israelites though he says "I have no direct proof of this interpretation," and "such proof cannot be expected."[24][25] The plants he suggests may have caused the vision are Peganum harmala,[24] used by the Bedouin people in present times but not identified with any plant mentioned in the Bible,[25] and acacia, mentioned frequently in the Bible, and also used in traditional Bedouin and Arab medicine.[24][25] The effects of certain species of acacia are comparable to the effects of ayahuasca, which can cause users to "see music".

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  45. jenny kind of reminds me of the Tilda Swinton character in "Julia."

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  46. I've been reading the Elephant Bar for a while now but today all I can say is "OMG!"

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  47. Looks like Congress can't stop the NSA from monitoring every nook and cranny of our lives after all. In an explosive feature in Wired, James Bamford reveals that the National Security Agency has revived a program called "Total Information Awareness," which aims to collect and sift through every electronic communication around the world. Yep, that includes those made by Americans—even though Congress passed legislation in 2003 to stop "TIA" from spying on US citizens.

    Three covert sources tell Bamford that the NSA's planned information center in Utah will use a network of satellites to monitor every email, break any encryption, and eavesdrop on any phone call—even land-line calls. “We are, like, that far from a turnkey totalitarian state,” a source tells Bamford.

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  48. .

    This is the emerging narrative: the rise of Christianity as a contextual answer to the current decline into domestic and international instability. It is a nasty knee-jerk pendulum-swing reaction to the results of "60 years of godless socialism introduced by FDR." Two examples...et al...


    :)

    First, we have the rat ragging on the Jews.

    Then we have WiO ragging on the Muslims.

    Now, we have ann dissing the Christians.

    To round this thing out, I guess I will need to spill the beans on this whole Rosicrucian "secret knowledge" thing.

    Bob, you got any dirt on those damn Druids?

    .

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  49. Haven't marijuana seeds been found in ancient Egyption sarcophagii?

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  50. I did have a thought:

    I never thought I would see the day when Republicans and Christians would be more frightening than Muslim terrorists and Iranian Mullahs.

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  51. Now, we have ann dissing the Christians.

    Not even remotely. I want religious faith out of politics and out of my personal life. I will discover my own spiritual path, and my government will continue to support my freedom to do so.

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  52. I never thought I would see the day ...

    It's called nipping it in the bud.

    (You should spend some quality time in the conservative blog space if you already don't. I'm not making this stuff up.)

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  53. And I most assuredly did not invent the idea of a "Christian theocracy" as the single and inevitable end-state of "true" conservative governance. That came from the Mensa Big Brains.

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  54. .

    Not even remotely. I want religious faith out of politics and out of my personal life. I will discover my own spiritual path, and my government will continue to support my freedom to do so.


    Very libertarian and very utopian. You define 'your' rights and expect the government to protect them; yet, you ignore the rights of others that are guaranteed by the Constitution. In a democratic society, it just doesn't work that way.

    (You should spend some quality time in the conservative blog space if you already don't. I'm not making this stuff up.)


    This is usually the only blog I visit or have time for. I find that the newspapers I read plus Real Clear Politics/World/Religion/Science/Markets provides me with the diversity of opinion I need. However, I did visit the blog stream over at BC that you suggested as proof of your premise. Surprisingly, my take on it was much different than yours.

    What I did notice, again surprisingly, was there were no comments there from Anonoymous, ann, or anyone that sounded like you. I say suprising since given you obvious passion on this subject I would have thought you would have been in the middle of the conversation. But perhaps, I didn't recognize you under one of your other aliases.

    .

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  55. Rufus: Republicans are just phony shits. What they really want is to do away with all social safety nets, including medicare. Nothing less will make them happy.

    Social safety nets and the right to free Internet porn were never written into the Constitution.

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  56. And the idea of conditioning foreign alliances based on Christian affiliation as a means of forming defensive coalitions is not mine either. More Mensa brainstorming.

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  57. Rufus: It's perplexing. Everyone worries about Iran being able to block the Straits of Hormuz, and overlooks the fact that the loss of Iran's 2.5 Million bbl/day, alone, will create untold havoc upon the West.

    Sure, just like the untold havoc the Libya War created when they took that oil off the table. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

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  58. I have to go now which is good because my impression of your engagement style is unseemly and inappropriate to post in greater detail in a public forum.

    1. Separation of church and state rests on constitutional legal precedent. I am not "defining" anything.

    2. I will not argue with anyone who read the Fragile Future comments and remarked as you just did, except to observe that the comments included a sprinkling of rational participants. They were outnumbered by the "women denying god's destiny" posters. I know from experience that such debates become exercises in semantic sophistry faster than you can say "chew the bark off my big fat log." Better things to do.

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  59. The government must be less intrusive so the Christians have a void to fill. Is sort of the snake oil that's being peddled.

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  60. And it's not passion. It is revulsion.

    Abortion is a difficult subject that I do not debate, other than to state support for the current level of decision-making. My response to the subject is purely clinical. The passion belongs with the individual.

    The suggestion of a Christian theocracy is revolting to me. I might elect to participate in such a debate but the theme was (mercifully) upstaged by abortion and "women in denial of god's will."

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  61. .

    1. Separation of church and state rests on constitutional legal precedent. I am not "defining" anything


    The exact argument those opposed to Obama's healthcare rulings are making.

    Perhaps it is better you leave the conversation. We wouldn't want you to appear unseemly. I suppose that is the reason you didn't jump in to assist those 'rational participants' at the BC with their arguments.

    Just as well, I had anticipated a rather lengthy debate on this subject, but I really need to get ready to take my wife to dinner.

    Have a good day.

    .

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  62. .

    Lordy, and she is back again.

    I thought you had left.


    No problem, I will catch you the next time around. As I recall, you said you were done with the subject yesterday. Then today, "I'm done with that subject for awhile." A few minutes ago, "I have to go now..."

    I'll catch you the next time around.


    .

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  63. Uh, T, Obama and the IEA took 60 Million Barrels out of "Strategic" Reserves; you can't do that with regularity.

    And, Gas prices are at $3.83/gal, nationally, and steadily rising.

    Oh, and Europe has joined Japan in Recession. Who do you suppose might be next?

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  64. As for internet porn, I'm absolutely certain that there's a "free speech" amendment in The Constitution.

    And, the Supreme Court has ruled that porn is protected as free speech.

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  65. Also, I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the Constitution about "nation-building" in Mideast countries,

    And I'm absolutely positive that the Constitution give Congress the power to Declare War (not the President - of the U.S. OR Israel.

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  66. Getting a little bitchy/whiney are we, Q?

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  67. Nothing should scare one worse than the assumption of power by the religious story-tellers.

    It has never, ever, in any culture, had a happy ending.

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  68. Except with the Cherokee, of course; they kicked the "story-tellers" out.

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  69. .

    Getting a little bitchy/whiney are we, Q?


    Don't be silly, Rufus. In general, I agree with most of ann's positions.

    On the other hand, you know my positions on religion, the GOP, and right wing blogs. This is not a defense of any of them.

    You may or may not know my position on abortion. But the question is does the government have the right to force religiously affiliated organizations to provide contraception and abortion services to those who work for them.

    The country is divided on the answer. The perfect subject for a debate.

    However, while that may be what sparked the conversation, with
    ann, that conversation has morphed into Christians (evidently just Christians that are part of the GOP) trying to take control of women's reproductive rights, turn the US into a theocracy, and use Christianity as the basis for US foreign policy.

    I've challenged her on all of these including the original premise, her conclusions, and the proofs she offers.

    For instance, she put up portions of two polls as proof yesterday; yet if you look at the totality of those polls, rather than the pieces she put up, they say the opposite of what she is trying to prove.

    She sent the blog to the BC for proof of her positions. There were 112 posts on the stream. I didn't find any 'proof' for her positions. The reason? She draws broad conclusions from minimal evidence and then gets pissed off when she gets questioned on them.

    She takes her ball and goes home. It's not surprising that she offered up no posts in support of her conclusions over at the BC. I suspect she would be laughed out of the place.

    It's good to see you coming to the defense of a lady though. Very noble.

    .

    .

    ReplyDelete
  70. I don't think the lady needs "my" defense, Q. :)

    ReplyDelete
  71. The exact argument those opposed to Obama's healthcare rulings are making.

    Which they conveniently forget when the subject turns to abortion, or "god's plan for women" or the optimal form of a "true" conservative government, or building strategic foreign policy alignments in the ME.

    ...

    I had some more but I think I'm going to take the high road for awhile to give you a chance to stabilize.

    ReplyDelete
  72. However, having said that, these:

    "Christians (evidently just Christians that are part of the GOP) trying to take control of women's reproductive rights, turn the US into a theocracy, and use Christianity as the basis for US foreign policy."


    are the very things that scare Me to death when I see a Santorum surge.

    I don't take it lightly. Hard times (which I'm afraid we're in for,) and a charismatic "religious" leader can lead to some scary outcomes.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Sun Mar 18, 04:54:00 PM EDT
    Rufus II said...

    Nothing should scare one worse than the assumption of power by the religious story-tellers.

    It has never, ever, in any culture, had a happy ending.

    Sun Mar 18, 05:14:00 PM EDT


    Folks, this is the kind of totally illiterate Cherokee shit I so love Rufus Johnny Come Lately for - no one but ol' Ruf could come up with southern snake shit like this.

    One feels humbled - and exceedingly fortunate - to have been blessed with the chance to experience it: the totally meaningless.

    It is like seeing that comet that comes by only every five thousand years, or something, it is so rare.

    ReplyDelete
  74. The Inquisition comes immediately to mind.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Bob, you got any dirt on those damn Druids?

    Last I read here somebody said they was real nice, held parties in the moonlight and chased the nubiles about, and tooted flutes.

    William Blake had 'em depopulatin' northern Europe through human sacrifice so I don't know where the truth lives.

    It's been rumored as a nasty little secret of Europe, not much talked about in polite circles like the EB.

    xxxx


    Rufus II said...

    Nothing should scare one worse than the assumption of power by the religious story-tellers.

    It has never, ever, in any culture, had a happy ending.

    Sun Mar 18, 05:14:00 PM EDT


    Folks, this is the kind of totally illiterate Cherokee shit I so love Rufus Johnny Come Lately for - no one but ol' Ruf could come up with southern snake shit like this.

    One feels humbled - and exceedingly fortunate - to have been blessed with the chance to experience it: the totally meaningless.

    It is like seeing that comet that comes by only every five thousand years, or something, it is so rare.

    ReplyDelete
  76. that conversation has morphed into Christians...

    No. Morphing never implied. Projection on your part. I cited separate threads that suggested a common conclusion. And I am not about to slog back through the sites to find the salient discussions.

    And oh my. "You've challenged and your opponent has failed." "She takes her ball and goes home." "Laughed out of the place."

    Your serious academic rebuttal is little more than a kiddie psychologist framing all forms of conflict resolution in a parent-child context in order to leverage pretension into the substance of argumentation.

    Which is very telling.

    I participated for a considerable time @BC until the thematic narratives started to "turn." I then stopped. I am still appalled at the religious radicalism that emerged. YMMV.


    (Since I anticipate the obligatory "look! a flying squirrel" diversion, my errand was cut short. Not that it's any of your business.)

    ReplyDelete
  77. China has an estimated 25 trillion cubic meters of potentially recoverable shale-gas reserves, the largest in any country, according to local media reports, citing the Ministry of Land and Resources.

    ...

    Total, which already has a refining joint venture in Dalian in northeastern China, hopes the Guangdong project could lead to greater access in China.

    ...

    It also hopes to extend its chain of filling stations into southern China through that project, building on a network of 300 it has already set up, and another 300 planned in a venture with another Chinese company, Sinochem Group.

    ReplyDelete
  78. It’s not from this year’s campaign but from 2008, when Obamacare did not yet exist. Here’s an exchange from the debate among Republican candidates at St. Anselm College in New Hampshire on January 5 that year:

    * * *

    Charlie Gibson: Governor Romney’s system has mandates in Massachusetts, although you backed away from mandates on a national basis.

    Mitt Romney: No, no, I like mandates. The mandates work.

    Fred Thompson: I beg your pardon? I didn’t know you were going to admit that. You like mandates.

    Romney: Let me—let me—oh, absolutely. Let me tell you what kind of mandates I like, Fred, which is this. If it weren’t .  .  .

    Thompson: The ones you come up with.

    (Laughter)

    Romney: Here’s my view: If somebody—if somebody can afford insurance and decides not to buy it, and then they get sick, they ought to pay their own way, as opposed to expect the government to pay their way. And that’s an American principle.

    ReplyDelete
  79. The creator of Red Bull, who became one of the world's richest men thanks to the success of the fizzy, caffeine-laden drink, died yesterday in Bangkok of natural causes. Chaleo Yoovidhya was 89.

    ...

    Showing no lack of energy himself, he married twice, and had 11 children, five from his first wife and six from his second. Today, Mr Yoovidhya's family will start a week-long series of traditional Buddhist rites at a monastery west of Bangkok.

    ReplyDelete
  80. ...a charismatic "religious" leader can lead to some scary outcomes.

    Exactly. And the "nuance" here is that the "space" between religion and charisma is very, very thin.

    OTOH, people of all faith should feel free to worship their personal god without punitive consequence. One role of government is to protect that right (which makes this Christian foreign alliance block ludicrous.)

    Politicizing religion - from either side - makes that harder to do.

    Which is why the Republicans are toying with a dangerous game if they don't exert some control over Ralph Reed and his crew.

    ReplyDelete
  81. 'Love is when you tell a guy you like his shirt, then he wears it every day.'

    Noelle - age 7

    ReplyDelete
  82. Article 6

    Article Six of the United States Constitution provides that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States". Prior to the adoption of the Bill of Rights, this was the only mention of religion in the Constitution.

    [edit] The First Amendment

    The first amendment to the US Constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" The two parts, known as the "establishment clause" and the "free exercise clause" respectively, form the textual basis for the Supreme Court's interpretations of the "separation of church and state" doctrine.

    ReplyDelete
  83. Mr. Browne, his attorney, has suggested in several interviews that Staff Sgt. Bales may have been deployed too often. After three stints in Iraq, he has said the family thought the Middle East deployments were finished.

    ...

    But others disagree with that complaint, and even some who knew him said they didn't think the massacre was a result of U.S. military policies and deployments. "What he did is not systemic; he was a lone actor," said Mr. Hall, the retired captain, commenting on the allegations.

    "The media is painting this as 'too many deployments,' [but] he broke several orders, first drinking and then shooting women and children."

    ReplyDelete
  84. What's Article II Section I mean, Lawyer Rufus?

    Counselor Rufus?

    Justice Rufus?

    ReplyDelete
  85. I don't really know what article 2 section 1 means, bob.

    Because it doesn't define the phrase "natural born citizen."

    ReplyDelete
  86. What, after all, is the alternative? Peace talks have scant prospect of success given that the Taliban are now betting—perhaps rightly—that they can simply wait us out.

    The likely result of a precipitous American pullout, which would trigger an equally hasty exit by our NATO allies, would be a major Taliban offensive in the east and south that would aim to take back Kandahar, Marja, and other population centers that have been secured at considerable cost over the past few years. The Afghan security forces would be likely to splinter along ethnic lines, and the entire country could well be plunged into a civil war as it was in the 1990s, when Kabul was regularly on the receiving end of artillery bombardments.

    We know how that conflict played out, with the rise of Taliban rule and the creation of sanctuaries for al Qaeda. There is no need to risk a repeat of such a calamity, when, simply by sticking with current plans and commitments, we have a decent chance to secure our vital interests in Afghanistan.

    ReplyDelete
  87. We have no "vital interests" in Afghanistan, and it's costing us, probably, close to a Hundred Billion Dollars/Yr to pursue these "non" vital interests.

    ReplyDelete
  88. .

    Ann: 1. Separation of church and state rests on constitutional legal precedent. I am not "defining" anything

    Quirk: The exact argument those opposed to Obama's healthcare rulings are making.

    Ann: Which they conveniently forget when the subject turns to abortion, or "god's plan for women" or the optimal form of a "true" conservative government, or building strategic foreign policy alignments in the ME...



    You prove my point, though I see you left the word Christian out of this rebuttal.

    "Conveniently forget?"

    Abortion: As far as I know, the current discussion is not about denying women their legal right to an abortion. The question is over forcing religious organizations to pay for or give any impression they support contraception and/or abortion if in fact those institutions morally object to it.

    You seem to be saying it is every women's 'right' to expect payment for those services regardless of who they choose to work for. I don't see that right in the Constitution. I do; however, see the prominence of the First Amendment demanding the separation of Church and State.


    "God's Plan for Women?": I assume this has either something to do with Rick Santorum or a blog comment from the BC. My question to you would be what makes your plan for women any better than one of these? For that matter, what is your plan for women? You've complained a lot but been pretty vague on specifics.

    Example: On the ABC News poll you quoted from yesterday, you fail to post the first line from it,

    Thirty years after Roe vs. Wade, public support for legal abortion is highly conditional: In some cases, such as to save the woman's life, it's overwhelming; but in others — notably, solely to terminate an unwanted pregnancy — most Americans oppose the procedure.

    You say "I don't debate abortion". Yet, you sure do complain a lot about the subject.

    Until you get around to telling us what it is you believe, I'll have to assume you are in the minority, at least, as far as the poll you yourself brought up.

    On a general question, "should abortion be allowed in all or most cases" a majority, 57% say yes. However, if the same question is asked in a more detailed way, things shift. You see most of the positive support centers around the health of the mother or cases of rape or incest.

    From the same poll,

    It should be illegal

    To End Unwanted Pregnancy 57%
    D&X/Partial-Birth Abortions 69%
    Pregnancy is 6 Months+ 86%

    On your last two, "optimal form of a "true" conservative government" and "building strategic foreign policy alignments in the ME" it would be helpful if you were to define exactly what you mean by each. On the first, I assume it's the theocracy meme you mentioned earlier. I object primarily on the basis that you take a small subset (one blog comment as far as I can tell and project it upon the GOP and the 'conservative' (although I would prefer right-wing) blogosphere as a whole. I assume the second is the same though it is hard to understand what Christian nations or for that mater Christians they are talking about in the ME.


    ...

    I had some more but I think I'm going to take the high road for awhile to give you a chance to stabilize.



    Amusing.

    That high road can get a little uncomfortable, However, you did stay on it for about 19 minutes as I look at your follow-up post.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  89. Mark Steyn Wonders How Anyone Can Take Obama Seriously

    xxxxxx

    That's not a bad answer Rufus, but it misses the point that everybody knew what it meant back then, as even my generation did, thirty years ago, and, that they didn't think it needed defining.

    They knew that they were not thinking of just a citizen, when they used the phrase, because it was a big deal in their minds, not wanting a half Englishman to be the Commander in Chief, for the obvious reasons, and that they talked about those reasons in letters to one another, they used it just that once, in that place. You don't have to be a NBC to be a Senator for instance.

    So, you answer fails.

    And, you, actually, couldn't give a flying fuck if your boy is a constitutional fraud.

    Religion, and constitutions, are not for children.

    ReplyDelete
  90. .

    Your serious academic rebuttal is little more than a kiddie psychologist framing all forms of conflict resolution in a parent-child context in order to leverage pretension into the substance of argumentation.


    Not to disappoint, more diversion, the old red herring.

    Yesterday, I offered to have a discussion with you on a whole list of subjects that you've brought up over the past couple of days.

    You have declined, stating that I am a prick, you don't like the way I argue, that I am pretensious, that you don't like bickering, that you want to stick to the high road and avoid conflict, you don't want to fight, all the time avoiding discussion.

    What you seem to want is to put up a monologue and have the rest of us nod.

    I can see why you left the BC.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  91. Here is why, folks, ObamaRufus are DOOMED in the coming elections, no matter who the Republican nominee is -

    That New York Times/CBS poll found that a whopping 80 percent of Americans said they are not better off financially than they were four years ago. That sounds about right to me. But Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid called that number "so meaningless," which says volumes. No one likes to say that they aren't better off—everyone wants to be moving up the ladder in life—and for 80 percent to admit something like that is not "meaningless."

    from a dreaded AT article

    ReplyDelete
  92. Rufus: Uh, T, Obama and the IEA took 60 Million Barrels out of "Strategic" Reserves; you can't do that with regularity.

    Can't, or won't? Seems to me they can do it at least twenty more times. Fill when prices are low, empty when prices are high, that's an old market adage.

    ReplyDelete
  93. You're wound up a little tight Q. I'm going to let it give a rest back to you.

    ReplyDelete
  94. .

    You're wound up a little tight Q. I'm going to let it give a rest back to you.


    :)

    Not a problem.

    Since I think I see the MO, I won't bother trying to engage you. Feel free to expound. I won't intrude.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  95. Q's always got his knickers in a twist about something but it's Ash I am worried about I think his GPS device may have failed and he is lost in a rough somewhere. Either that or shot a 3 boogers and is ashamed to be in public.

    ReplyDelete
  96. Ann came, she saw, she conquered.


    Q's always got his knickers in a twist about something but it's Ash I am worried about I think his GPS device may have failed and he is lost in a rough somewhere. Either that or shot a 3 boogers and is ashamed to be in public.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Malik al-Abdeh is one of hundreds of British Syrians who have watched the state killings of protesters in their homeland with horror over the past year.

    ...

    Even here, however, talk of the Arab Spring is kept to a minimum between strangers. "People get frustrated when they hear something they don't like," says Sami Ali as he grills a kebab.

    Having spent his teenage years in a civil defence team during the Lebanese civil war in the 1980s, collecting bodies from the street and keeping his people supplied with bread and water, he knows not to get carried away by the excitement of revolutions. "There is an old saying," he tells me.

    "Crazy people start revolutions, heroes die in them, and cowards rule afterwards."

    ReplyDelete
  98. As one of the comments says, this provides a good and needed baseline on just who is dangerous here in the armed to the teeth state - Republicans, or Democrats?

    Farmers? Or, Professors?

    ReplyDelete
  99. When they get Clinkingbeard in the clink they'll give her a shrink and a shave


    When they get
    Clinkingbeard
    In the clink
    They'll give her a shave
    And a shrink

    ReplyDelete
  100. .

    Ann came, she saw, she conquered.


    Your right, Bob.

    You can't debate someone who won't debate. You can't challenge someone's views when they refuse to defend them. You can't converse with someone who's comback is 'your a bad boy and I don't like how you play.'

    You may have noticed it wasn't only me. She assumed the same MO with Anono-2 yesterday.

    She talks well, not always logically, but well. Your a poet. Enjoy the monologues.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  101. .

    Chalkingbeard?

    Is that Swedish, Bob?

    Sounds like something out of the Lords of the Rings. Good name for a dwarf warrior perhaps.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  102. A poet? Where did you get that strange idea. I just wish....

    Ash is off in a dark rough somewhere, intuitively I think.....15th fairway....I'm worried....

    ReplyDelete
  103. Clankingarmorclinkingsplitredbeard - that's Swedish

    ReplyDelete
  104. .

    Ash is off in a dark rough somewhere


    Things could be worse.


    .

    ReplyDelete
  105. Apple Inc. AAPL +0.00% shareholders are about to get an answer to one of their most pressing questions: What will the technology giant do with its roughly $100 billion in cash?

    ...

    If Apple initiates a dividend, it would join a large number of cash-rich tech companies that have yielded to investor demand for dividends over the years, including Microsoft Corp., MSFT -0.76% Cisco Systems Inc. CSCO +0.60% and Oracle Corp. ORCL -1.06% While some have done so as their growth rates matured and opportunities for investment diminished, investors still expect Apple to grow quickly but want it to return cash to shareholders, because it is generating significantly more than it needs.

    ReplyDelete
  106. .

    John Paul II's Last Words: "Pope Sled"

    >

    ReplyDelete
  107. .

    John Paul II's Last Words: "Pope's Dead"

    >

    Some damn fool said the Pope was so sick he didn't have any last words.

    Now, think about that.

    xxxx


    Midway on my round's journey
    Between the 12th and 15th holes
    I found myself in a dark woods
    A dark rough somewhere
    I know not where
    A place of no place
    The right road lost
    Only a six iron to hand


    Ash, described in The Divine Golf Match, before entering into the infernal divot.

    ReplyDelete
  108. You will rejoice to hear that no disaster has accompanied the commencement of an enterprise which you have regarded with such evil forebodings.

    ReplyDelete
  109. We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold.

    You will rejoice to hear that no disaster has accompanied the commencement of an enterprise which you have regarded with such evil forebodings.

    George is my name; my deeds have been heard of in Tower Hall, and my childhood has been chronicled in the Journal of Experimental Psychology.

    There was a hand in the darkness, and it held a knife.

    For a long time, I went to bed early.

    There was no possibility of taking a walk that day.

    In the late summer of that year we lived in a house in a village that looked across the river and the plain to the mountains.

    ReplyDelete
  110. WH


    If you can't get just two of the first lines in first line game,

    Your bedded hair, like life in excrements, start up and stand on end.

    our bard, but O, what play?

    ReplyDelete
  111. To repeat for those who tend to get chatty:

    Which is why the Republicans are toying with a dangerous game if they don't exert some control over Ralph Reed and his crew.

    Last thing the country needs is to trade in 60 years of "godless socialism" for a half century of burning bushes.

    Petulance is not a policy position.

    Ann

    ReplyDelete
  112. Ritualistic Recap: Not two rounds in, two accusations flew. First, the outsider was banished under humiliating circumstances, and second it was "suspected" that the real issue was abortion and not all this religion shit, both assumptions reached after heroically mastering the self discipline to slog through muddled and rambling exposition. Revealing projections both. That is not debate. That is Oscar Wilde as a blog artiste.

    ReplyDelete
  113. .

    Anonymous said...
    Ritualistic Recap: ... et al...



    When one offers an opinion on a blog, it's possible that the opinion will be challenged. If it's just opinions, that's likely the end of it.

    When one offers proofs to support those opinions, those proofs will probably and most likely be challenged. When they are challenged, IMO, you would expect those offering the proofs to defend them.

    Instead, what we got over three days is the one offering those initial proofs getting in a tiff when his/her proofs are challenged, storming off stating the argument is over, then coming back a few minutes later, restating his/her initial aruguments in slightly different words, ignoring the objections to those arguments completely, calling her antagonists names, and declaring that is his/her last words on the subject. It is a pattern we see often these days with ideologues on any particular subject.

    You've repeated the pattern numerous times over the last three days starting with Anon-2 and ending with me.

    As I stated, I'm a bit tired of this game. You appear a bit too fragile for it. I suggest you go play with others here who appreciate your facility with words and ignore the substance.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  114. .

    John Paul II's Last Words: "Pope's Dead"


    Ignoring the obvious temporal conflict in your statement, Bob, I would observe that you read too much and should take in a movie once in a while.

    I was over at the The Onion last night and noticed the twitter feed "John Paul II's Last Words: "Pope Sled". For some reason (it being 1:00 am may have had something to do with it), I found the comment and its conjunction with the scene from Citizen Cane involving "Rosebud" to be hilarious. But that's just me.

    .

    ReplyDelete
  115. It's much simpler than that. You are rude, unpleasant, nasty, snippy, and anally fixated - all signs of an abusive personality, and having very little to do with "fragility" - and nothing at all to do with reasoned debate

    Ann

    ReplyDelete
  116. .

    It's much simpler than that. You are rude, unpleasant, nasty, snippy, and anally fixated - all signs of an abusive personality, and having very little to do with "fragility" - and nothing at all to do with reasoned debate


    Ad hominem attacks, the last refuge of those unable to defend their positions.

    Reasoned debate?

    Heck, I would have settled for any kind of 'debate' from you.

    You appear to be getting a little rattled, ann. I would suggest you apply a cold compress to your forehead and take a short nap.

    .

    ReplyDelete