Obama in 2003
Doug said...
"Obama wisely changed his mind about releasing them. That in itself differentiated himself from the inflexible and sometime stubbornness of George Bush. Obama has been persuaded by argument and logic. That is hopeful. Next."----
Panetta, the Military, CIA, and etc no doubt forcefully expressed their opinion.
I find it bizarre to credit him for taking a position that only a hateful, self-centered, immature and inexperienced jerk would take to start with, because he then reversed himself when he became convinced it would be harmful to his popularity ratings.
Like crediting someone who planned on raping a 14 year old child, but then thought better of it when he noticed a police car down the block, for acting like an upstanding moral agent.
Thu May 14, 07:31:00 AM EDT
Obama Says Debt Load 'Unsustainable'; Warns of skyrocketing interest rates...-
ReplyDeleteWill people really continue to buy this blatant nonsense and crass dishonesty?
Well al-Doug, we will be able to ride the Desert Debtor from LALA to Lost Wages.
ReplyDeleteIf the train hasn't been diverted to Chicago.
Cheer up, my man!
"How did Obama come to be President of The United States?"Looks to me like he kinda B.S.ed his way in.
ReplyDeleteA decent wage for a decent days work.Who can be against that?
In the many years I got zero from farming, that would sound pretty good.
But, I took up farming by myself, knowing it was a risk, and it was fun anyway, even though the pay was darned poor.
On a really good day in October I'd be able to pop a Chinese pheasant with the shotgun I'd carry in the tractor.
It was days like that that made it worth it.
He was elected by the same kind of voters who allow the insanity seen in Sacramento.
ReplyDeleteThe same kind of voters who repeatedly send Nancy Pelosi back to Congress.
As Rat often points out, the new majority, the new mainstream. A bloc forged from the masses of the outcome based generation. A creation of the teachers unions. Years in the making and now come to fruition.
Read 'em and weep.
The NEA schools in many ways more effective than techniques practiced by the Soviets.
ReplyDeleteBased always on the foundational principle that no matter how low scores sink, or how out of control classrooms become with teachers are in virtual shackles, all is well as long as parents keep buying the line that schools are broke, just ante up more taxes, AND organize a fundraiser for the Keikis.
...as the "gays" (transgenered, marriage facist hysterics, etc) put in place everything they solemnly swore would never happen 15 years ago.
Oh there you go again, Doug, with that slippery slope nonsense.
ReplyDeleteMy son goes to school with rich hippies, taught by middle class liberals, so he entertains himself by sitting in AP Comparative Politics and arguing the virtues of the police state with seventeen year old heiresses and one very dismayed forty-five year-old.
ReplyDeleteCan't say he doesn't have a sense of humor.
He argues with others? Where did he get that from? Certainly not his sweet mother! Nooooo way!
ReplyDeleteMost young people inclined to seriously engage the world of ideas do not do so until late adolescence/university. In my experience, almost everything that precedes this is memorization/regurgitation. Not without purpose, but with a different purpose altogether.
ReplyDeleteThose inclined to seriously engage the world of ideas, will not necessarily embrace yours even with the most careful, comprehensive, and well-meaning of educations.
Human beings are funny that way.
We are (in)famous arguers, we.
ReplyDeleteCIA Chart of who was briefed, what was said, and when. Pelosi says she could not have stopped waterboarding.
ReplyDeleteBut what if Pelosi and the other Democrats had objected?
Sen. Bond told me in a Friday interview that, “We know that when we object to planned activities by the CIA, they don’t do it.”
Pelosi didn’t stop the CIA by objecting. And neither did any of the other Democrats who were briefed at the time: then-SSCI Chairman Bob Graham (D-Fl), Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev), and Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV).
Soon to be famous.
ReplyDeleteFeinstein was on CNN, questioned by Blitzer.
ReplyDeleteFeinstein does her homework, knows her stuff. Believe it or not. What did she have to say about Pelosi?
1. In three decades and change, I've never known Pelosi to lie.
2. The briefings are flawed; we have proposed legislation to fix that.
The technical matter of the briefings themselves will be the issue, leaving all concerned with all limbs attached.
If the CIA is ever subjected to the extent of Congressional oversight that the DOD is, one might as well get rid of it.
And as I said when the daily howls WRT the former reached their fever pitch: Beware that which you might wish for.
Greg Morris [convicted swindler/allegedly insane attorney/defense counsel] trial update.
ReplyDeleteThe defense attorney who was fired by Morris, McGinnis, is now coaching defendant/counsel Morris.
The prosecutor complained to the judge today that McGinnis had twice walked behind him, once at least carrying a coke, and he asked for it to cease. Judge thought that was appropriate and told McGinnis to stop doing it. McGinnis said the judge was absolutely right. "It's just that I haven't been in court for thirty-five years, and simply forgot."
Morris questioned his son on the witness stand today, bringing tears. Probably genuine.
Trial may go to jury tomorrow.
All over MSNBC, a report that Mr Cheney, or someone in his office, ordered the waterboarding of an Iraqi POW, one that would have had knowledge of the aQ-Iraq linkage, if there had been any linkage.
ReplyDeleteThis fellow not being a terrorist, but an Iraqi government functionary, a legal Prisoner of War.
The talking head said it could well be indictable, as the victim was not an illegal enemy combatant.
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ReplyDeleteWhat a bunch of spineless wimps. Y'all rant about how it is necessary to Waterboard and such to protect the glorious nation yet you are afraid to admit that you do it. Embrace your inner torturer and release the pictures!!! Oppose Obama and join with Cheney to stand tall and proud embracing the deeds done. Let the light of truth shine bright!!
ReplyDeleteWell, it looks like there was no waterboarding of the Iraqi, just the suggestion that it be done.
ReplyDeleteNo harm, no foul.
Former NBC News investigative producer Robert Windrem reports that the vice president’s office suggested waterboarding an Iraqi prisoner who was suspected of knowing about a relationship between al Qaeda and Saddam.
Robert Windrem, who covered terrorism for NBC, reports exclusively in The Daily Beast that:
*Two U.S. intelligence officers confirm that Vice President Cheney’s office suggested waterboarding an Iraqi prisoner, a former intelligence official for Saddam Hussein, who was suspected to have knowledge of a Saddam-al Qaeda connection.
*The former chief of the Iraq Survey Group, Charles Duelfer, in charge of interrogations, tells The Daily Beast that he considered the request reprehensible.
Get ready for the light of truth and justice.
Psalm 90:10 says, “The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years , yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.”
ReplyDeleteThank God for small mercies.
How many more years could you take the bullshit?
ReplyDeleteYou dumb fuck, Ash:
ReplyDeleteObama himself argued that the abu pictures cost our soldiers lives.
He was right.
Remember some of the riots and deaths over the cartoons?
Cheney advocated the release of intel gained along with the methods used, not release of the pictures.
ReplyDeleteNo soldiers died over the cartoons. The enemy will quake in their boots with the simple knowledge of what awaits them in US hands. Release the pictures, let the enemy know what will befall him lest he not tell US what we want to know. Walk tall with Cheney and shine the light of truth upon our glorious deeds!!
ReplyDelete"a former intelligence official for Saddam Hussein...
ReplyDelete*The former chief of the Iraq Survey Group, Charles Duelfer, in charge of interrogations, tells The Daily Beast that he considered the request reprehensible."
Well crap, God himself is not as unimpeachable a source as Charles Dufus.
String him up!
Waterboarding a Saddam intel cheif,
Oh, the Humanity!
They are just animals, goat-fuckers, no? Terrrrooorrrists!!! They get what they deserve. I thought Y'all were for free speech!
ReplyDeleteEIRUS for US!
EIRUS for ALL!
Enhanced
Interrogations
aRe
US
EIRUS!!
You're FOS Ash.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Ash does not give a shit that an ATTACK ON Los Angeles was averted.
ReplyDeleteYou're a sick puppy, Ash.
Other lives were saved by the Intel, as well.
Terrorists are Ash.
ReplyDeleteFearlessly offering up innocent citizens for slaughter.
Seven years, nine months.
ReplyDeleteMore or less.
Funny all the stuff that wi"o" is wrapping his head around, making his list, checking it twice, that part of the plan was written and implemented forty years ago.
With regards US Expeditionary troops abroad, there are 85,000 in Europe, with over 56,000 in Germany.
As of March 31, 2008, U.S. Forces were stationed at more than 820 installations in at least 39 countries.[18] Some of the largest contingents are the 142,000 military personnel in Iraq, the 56,200 in Germany, the 33,122 in Japan, 26,339 in South Korea, 31,100 in Afghanistan and approximately 9,700 each in Italy and the United Kingdom. These numbers change frequently due to the regular recall and deployment of units.
Altogether, 84,488 military personnel are located in Europe, 154 in the former Soviet Union, 70,719 in East Asia and the Pacific, 7,850 in North Africa, the Near East, and South Asia, 2,727 are in sub-Saharan Africa with 2,043 in the Western Hemisphere excepting the United States itself. (wiki)
"Feinstein does her homework, knows her stuff. Believe it or not. What did she have to say about Pelosi?
ReplyDelete1. In three decades and change, I've never known Pelosi to lie.
"
---
Feinstein, who gave her Billionaire Hubby hundreds of millions in "Stimulus" projects.
Who lied her ass off wrt Jim Jones.
Reporters just have 5 versions of Pelosi's "truth," but, she did not lie, Di-Fi tells me so.
Version six point 0 will tie all the truths together in one coherent non-lie.
Wouldn't the photos better illustrate the methods used?
ReplyDeleteIsn't a picture worth a thousand words?
If we are going to be less secure, in the Homeland, we have the right to see why.
Let's see what this bruhaha is really all about. It is a war against vicous terrorists, or it is a police chase of violent criminals. Let's decide, again.
Let the Muslims riot, if they wish.
They are not rioting in in the US.
Those that would behead US already would, another photo won't mean diddly, to them.
No, we need a free, fair and honest debate as to just what we are willing to do, and how the US Standard on Torture has changed or should have changed, since 1948.
So we can chart a fully informed course forward.
Back to Rat's faultless "logic."
ReplyDeleteBought by none here, save Ash.
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ReplyDeleteWell, doug, "here" is not where the decision is made.
ReplyDeleteHardly ever is.
You favor uniformed debate, so that no minds can be changed?
Or no debate at all, wishing that it'd all just "go away".
Which it will not do.
Full disclosure or No disclosure, there can't be much else that will settle the debate.
As it is now, waterboarding is illegal and will remain that way. Without the debate, without the the light of truth and justice, the technique will be illegal, from here on out.
If Mr Cheney is right, that not using intensive techniques endangers US, then the law should be changed, or those that think the status que is enough, to state so wiyh their recorded vote in Congress.
Without the full and public debate, the indispensable tools of interrogation will be lost to US.
Those techniques may be lost with the dabate, but without it, it's guarenteed, they're gone.
rat:
ReplyDeleteFunny all the stuff that wi"o" is wrapping his head around, making his list, checking it twice, that part of the plan was written and implemented forty years ago.
I dont understand your point...
I am trying to "be prepared"
to be self responsible for the welfare of me and mine as much as reasonably possible without becoming a nutjob...
Everyone has a point of view, I'll go with Andy's over yours, no offense, but it's pretty close to his center of interest, expertise, and effort.
ReplyDelete---
Poison Photo-Drop-
President Obama’s decision to release photographs of prisoner abuse will imperil our nation and its defenders.
ANDREW C. McCARTHY
They are making that choice fully aware that it will cost lives. It is a sedulous Democrat talking-point, repeated most recently by Carl Levin, the Senate Armed Services chairman and a key Obama ally, that the revelations of prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib inspired new terrorist recruits, caused American combat casualties, and made the United States more vulnerable to terrorist attack. This has long been Obama’s own position. It is a charge he made throughout the 2008 campaign, and it is one he repeated just a month ago in his Strasbourg speech: “When we saw what happened in Abu Ghraib, that wasn’t good for our security — that was a recruitment tool for terrorism. Humiliating people is never a good strategy to battle terrorism.”
It was not by reading news reports about prisoner abuse that “we saw what happened at Abu Ghraib.” It was by viewing the graphic photos: the images broadcast incessantly throughout the world, used simultaneously by al-Qaeda and by the anti-war Left to condemn the United States military, the United States government, and the American people themselves for the aberrational depravity of an unrepresentative handful of rogue prison guards. Obama has always been very much a part of the anti-war Left. That’s why he can make the risible assertion that “humiliating people” was anyone’s “strategy to battle terrorism.” That is why he said at a CNN campaign forum last June that “Abu Ghraib is something that all of us should be ashamed for, even if you were supportive of a war.”
Obama doesn’t have the political nerve to end the war. But he is slowly (or, as he’d no doubt put it, pragmatically) strangling the war effort. A critical part of the antiwar project is to make Americans feel ashamed of defending ourselves, inducing us to accept the European view that actions taken in our defense — even those that have protected us from additional jihadist strikes — tarnish our image, stir our enemies, and put us in grave danger. Better to go back to seeing terrorism as a law-enforcement concern, this theory holds, and accept the occasional terrorist strike as a cost of managing, rather than fighting, this scourge.
What we lose in dead Americans, the argument goes, will be more than compensated for in increased international prestige — if not for the United States, at least for Barack Obama.
Discrediting the war effort itself is what the release of these photos is about.
Superb stage management of political theater, that's how Obama came to be President.
ReplyDeleteThat's how he remains ahead of the projected slippage in his popularity.
Replacing two stars with six, pickin' up the tempo.
About fuckin' time.
What's funny, wi"o" is not that you're wrapping your head around it.
ReplyDeleteNot that you're preparing for a wide range of scenarios, but that you see reason to take action, now.
While my clan came to that position forty years ago.
I see humor in that.
In the enthusiasm of newly converted.
Nothing disrespectful, just kind of a knowing chuckle.
If you venture far down that trail, you'll end up living on a rural route, not that there is anything wrong with that, either.
You dunbfuck, AshNo better opinion has been offered.
ReplyDeleteThe difference in the photos, doug, is that the Abu Ghraib photos were of a rouge group of soldiers using the Iraqi for erotic S&M foreplay.
ReplyDeleteThey were not implementing US policy. What they did was not authorized behaviour.
It is my understanding that the phoyos in question, now, are of sanctioned techniques. Taken by US Government photogs.
World of difference in perspective.
But there you have, the reason for informed debate.
Andy has no faith in the US electorate, neither do you.
Obama does, that's why he came to be, President.
You dunbfuck, Ash.--
ReplyDelete-- damn I hate Blogger.
We should be able to curse at Ash without a fuckup.
There, that puts Ash in his proper place.
ReplyDeleteA dumbfuckup.
Who wants to pull your plug, Rat.
Defend yourself againt this.
al-Doug
ReplyDeleteI apologize for some of my white bretheren.
They know not, neither do they conceive.
Yours,
al-bob
I'm getting a big boost about Pelosi being on the pisser pot.
ReplyDeleteWhat about you, Ash?
Pelosi is lying her smelly panties off, and the CIA is fighting back..
ReplyDeleteSo, is Obama now favoring release of the photos that he ordered the AG to resist releasing a few days ago?
ReplyDeleteI'm probably behind the curve...nothing new there.
My hunch as of yesterday was that the damning photos were perceived by the in-crowd to be anti-climactic and not rising to the level of horror required to keep the pot boiling, hence the effort to make the whole can of worms fade away. Nothing's changed my mind.
Like a local radio host, now departed to leaner venues, said on-air at the time of the AbuGrab farce, "Hell, I've done worse things to people I like."
Obvious to me the asshats in D.C. never faced the swarm of rabid D.I.'s greeting the bus at basic training bases, or went through a good Escape and Evasion exercise, field telephones hooked to captured trainees and all. The OpFor there had incentive, week end passes for captures and intel.
----
Ash. After reading your comments above, I'm left with only one response.
Go fuck yourself.
Think not linear:
ReplyDeletePresent actions are manuevers to distance Obama from disclosing the Pics, because the Pics WILL cause serious negative consequences.
SO, the pics WILL come out, the damage will be done, but BHO will be innocent.
As usual.
Will Seymour Herst be the one the dem agents leak the Pics to?
Dana Milbank?
Or will they simply "accidentally" become available for all to see, and the MSM to do their duty, which is to repeat the abu pic routine of plastering them prominently,
over
and
over
and
over
and
over
and
over...
etc
"Pelosi is lying her smelly panties off, and the CIA is fighting back..i"
ReplyDelete---
Hilarious that the all-knowing, pro-CIA, Trish, on the basis of words from Wolfie and (terminally corrupt) Di-Fi, contends that a rather large conspiracy in the CIA misled the ever-honest Madam Pelosi, and as Madam P said, Congress itself.
SHAME on the CIA!
My Ass.
Trish has her head up hers, but then, she and 'Rat love to take the superior position attitude-wise, even when they are largely blowing smoke.
(That's why the only half-way interesting barfights are between the two superior entities, all the rest being excruciatingly boring and difficult to bear,
...as you know so very well.)
...the Superiors browbeating the dhimmis, the dhimmis begging to have their opinions respected by the all-knowing entities.
ad-infinitum.
(one might well ask why we dhimmis volunteer so often)
Has anybody else done the arithmetic on waterboarding. Over six times daily for a month, wasn't it? Over 180 times? Maybe the victim broke from boredom.
ReplyDeleteA new torture.
Boredom.
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ReplyDelete