Today, in the Daily Telegraph, he tells a story that is tough to read. It is a recollection of an event that took place after the taking of Baghdad and the collapse of civil government in Iraq.
It is disturbing. It is damning. The consequences are being felt today, and will be for a long, long time.
Is Johnson correct? Was it that obvious and that simple? Is Sanchez correct in the previous post? These questions will be answered and someone will have some explaining to do. It will not be the US Military either.
His column ends with this:
..."And what we had failed to see in advance was that almost from the outset the Iraqis would blame us – and not just the insurgents – for every distress they experienced.. I remember the quiet day we lost the war in Iraq
It is now commonplace for people like me, who supported the war, to say that we "did the right thing" but that it had mysteriously "turned out wrong". This is intellectually vacuous. It is like saying British strategy for July 1, 1916 was perfect, but let down by faulty execution. The thing was a disaster from the moment we invaded, and it wasn't poor old Rumsfeld's fault for failing to send in enough troops, or failing to do more "planning" for the post-war. No quantity of troops could have prevented this catastrophe; and the dreadful thing is that I think Saddam knew it.
A couple of years ago I had a chilling conversation with a very senior British general who was then intimately involved in our efforts in Iraq.
The trouble was, he said, that Saddam had thought it all through. He knew he hadn't a hope against the Pentagon, so he had a three-stage strategy. First he instructed his army not to put up much resistance to the Patton-like thrusts of the US army. Then, when Baghdad had fallen, he encouraged his soldiers to melt away to their homes and keep their weapons. The third stage, said this British general, was the one we had been embroiled in ever since: a guerrilla war, spiced with sectarian violence, to become gradually more intense until it became no longer possible for the allies to remain in Iraq.
And was he right in his analysis, this British general? Look at the place now. If Saddam had somehow managed to elude capture and stay in that hideyhole, people might now say he was on the verge of a sensational victory. Last time I was in Basra I was able to go for a run past the Shatt-al-Arab canal. You'd need a death-wish to do that today, and even in the massively fortified British compound the risk to life is so great that the Foreign Office has pulled most personnel back to the airport.
Of course we must resist the great national sport of wallowing in our own failures. Of course it is still true that some good will ultimately come, just as some good comes from all disasters. But we must be honest and accept that the price has been far too high, and that General Dannatt is right to say that our presence is making things worse.
As long as we are there, the terrorists know that they can maximise the damage to Bush and Blair by blowing up our troops, and so we incite the very violence we are trying to quell. We need to plan for withdrawal, and we need to understand why, why, why we were so mad as to attack Iraq without working out the consequences. That is why I want an inquiry. I want to interrogate our Government, and above all I want to hear from the Americans.
I want to find that tall, quiet American spook, and get him to explain to a parliamentary committee exactly why he thought there would be people in that Iraqi government building. And I bet most British soldiers would be interested to know the answer." - Boris Johnson, Daily Telegraph
" We destroyed the Baathist state, without realising that nothing would supplant it. The result was that salaries went unpaid, electricity was not generated, sanitation was not provided, and all the disorder was gradually and expertly fomented until it was quite beyond our control. "
ReplyDelete---
Ah, but we brought idealistic young Republican College Students to manage the joint from the Green Zone.
Such Heady Days those were:
Acting out the fantasy of being greeted as White Knights.
And the article does not even address the additional insult of allowing Iran and Syria free reign to foment violence and murder our troops.
Slippin into darkness
ReplyDeleteTake my mind beyond the dreams
I was slippin into darkness
Take my mind beyond the dreams
Where I talk to my brother, oh, oh, oh
Who never said their name
Slippin into darkness
When I heard my mother say
I was slippin into darkness
When I heard my mother say
(Hey, whatd she say, whatd she say)
You been slippin into darkness, oh, oh, oh
Pretty soon you're gonna pay
oh, oh, oh, oh
WAR, circa 1973
Now the NYT Article you don't want to read:Military Charts Movement of Conflict in Iraq Toward Chaos
Slipp'in into Darkness
Boris Johnson? Is that the chap that is constantly making fun of?
ReplyDeleteI read last nights previous post moments ago andgained some amusement from a dicussion about post war Japan vs. the Iraqi situation.
ReplyDeleteThe one huge salient,huge,enormous one was never mentioned (unless my bifocals missed it).
Japan was gone,only the name remained. Bombed into the stone age.Atom bombed twice. Firebombed a dozen times. THEY WERE TOTALLY AND UTTERLY DEFEATED.
We never did that in Iraq. We don't do that anymore period. That's why we keep losing..It really is that simple. You defeat the enemy until his civilization is gone along with his will to resist.
Beneficence and magnanimity follow TOTAL VICTORY they do not coincide with it.
Until we learn this very basic law of war we will not win anything substantial again.
whit,
ReplyDeletere: Somebody somewhere better grow some.
I'm afraid that's quite impossible. Worse yet, the transplant team has gone missing. Worst of all, the American elite has surprisingly few eligible donors - "some" are not to be had at any price.
WASHINGTON, Oct. 30 — A classified briefing prepared two weeks ago by the United States Central Command portrays Iraq as edging toward chaos, in a chart that the military is using as a barometer of civil conflict.
ReplyDeleteEnlarge This Image
CENTCOM CHART
United States Central Command
A slide titled “Iraq: Indications and Warnings of Civil Conflict” lists factors that are destabilizing Iraq.
A one-page slide shown at the Oct. 18 briefing provides a rare glimpse into how the military command that oversees the war is trying to track its trajectory, particularly in terms of sectarian fighting.
The slide includes a color-coded bar chart that is used to illustrate an “Index of Civil Conflict.” It shows a sharp escalation in sectarian violence since the bombing of a Shiite shrine in Samarra in February, and tracks a further worsening this month despite a concerted American push to tamp down the violence in Baghdad.
In fashioning the index, the military is weighing factors like the ineffectual Iraqi police and the dwindling influence of moderate religious and political figures, rather than more traditional military measures such as the enemy’s fighting strength and the control of territory.
The conclusions the Central Command has drawn from these trends are not encouraging, according to a copy of the slide that was obtained by The New York Times. The slide shows Iraq as moving sharply away from “peace,” an ideal on the far left side of the chart, to a point much closer to the right side of the spectrum, a red zone marked “chaos.” As depicted in the command’s chart, the needle has been moving steadily toward the far right of the chart.
Is there anyone out there that does not believe, "Islam Is the problem"?
ReplyDeleteBy Parisa Hafezi
TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran's Revolutionary Guards fired missiles carrying cluster warheads to shouts of "God is the Greatest" at the start of 10 days of military maneuvers on Thursday, state television reported.
Tehran had said the maneuvers, which will include drills in the Gulf and Sea of Oman, were to show off "defensive strength." Days earlier, navies led by the United States practiced blocking the transport of weapons of mass destruction in the Gulf.
rufus,
ReplyDeleteto answer your question from yesterday:
Salafism (Arabic: سلفي "predecessors" or "early generations"), is an orthodox movement in Sunni Islam ascribing its understanding and practice to the Salaf. Salafi Muslims are named by outsiders as Wahhabi, but prefer the term 'Salafi' as an attempt to portray themselves as true Muslims and not a sect. Salafis insist that their beliefs are pure Islam as practiced during the time of Muhammad
So, no, Salfai are not Saudi nationals by definition, but Wahabbist Sunni. Transnationals.
Boy oh boy.
ReplyDeleteThe whole of BC has caught up to lil ole me... & habu.
Funny stuff. They posters that remain have realized that there ain't no War.
That reocon fellow keeps asking how to define Victory.
That the Iraqi Government is the Shia Militias seems to have finally sunken in.
There are even those that say that we should be engaged in a Regional War, that Iran and Sria must be on the target list. How funny.
Still holding out hope for a US escalation of violence in the area of operations. Funny stuff, not.
We gotta lay down the law, as if we were the Law. Where in reality Catch and Release is the Law of the Land. The historical precedent.
Seen this all before, it's 1973 redux
I supported this war, but the deteriorating situation is starting to convince me that we can’t win. Those of us who hoped that the Iraqis could achieve democracy were wrong — and their failure has implications for the entire region.
ReplyDeleteBy Ralph Peters
On Tuesday, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki obeyed Muqtada al-Sadr's command to withdraw U.S. troops from Baghdad's Sadr City. He halted a vital U.S. military operation. It was the third time in less than a month that al-Maliki had sided with the anti-American cleric against our forces.
President Bush insists that we have no conflicts with the al-Maliki government. The president isn't telling the truth — or he himself doesn't support our military's efforts. He can't have it both ways. Bush appears increasingly desperate just to get through the upcoming elections.
Read the rest, if you wish Ralph Peters in USA Today
ReplyDeleteThis chaos wasn't inevitable. While in Iraq late last winter, I remained soberly hopeful. Since then, the strength of will of our opponents — their readiness to pay any price and go to any length to win — has eclipsed our own. The valor of our enemies never surpassed that of our troops, but it far exceeded the fair-weather courage of the Bush administration.
ReplyDelete"WE WERE ALL CONFUSED"..DAH YEAH,LIKE WELCOME TO THE CLUB
ReplyDeleteEx-chief of U.S. forces in Iraq says military forced him to retire
McALLEN, Texas - Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, who served a tumultuous year as commander of all U.S. forces in Iraq, retired from the Army on Wednesday, calling his career a casualty of the Abu Ghraib prison scandal.
“That’s the key reason, the sole reason, that I was forced to retire,” Sanchez said for a story in Thursday’s editions of The (McAllen) Monitor. “I was essentially not offered another position in either a three-star or four-star command.”
Sanchez had been a candidate to become the next commander of U.S. Southern Command but was passed over after the prisoner abuse scandal exploded into an international controversy. He was criticized by some for not doing more to avoid mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners.
An Army spokeswoman declined comment early Thursday.
Sanchez, 55, served for 33 years. As commander of the Army’s 5th Corps in 2003, he issued three memos authorizing harsher interrogation techniques such as stress positions, sleep deprivation and dogs at Abu Ghraib — but only with written authorization.
'We were all confused'
The changing policies confounded Col. Thomas M. Pappas, an intelligence officer who assumed the prison’s management in late 2003.
“We were all confused at one time or another,” Pappas testified in June at the court-martial of an Army dog handler.
'We were all confused'
ReplyDeleteWe did not understand the Mission
ReplyDeleteThe Warning Order was clear
The Op Order was f**ked up
'We were all confused'
But some of US saw the light sooner than others
They were confused because it makes no sense. Rough coercion and aggressive interrogation is not torture except for the touchy-feely-innerchild-assholes we have become.
ReplyDeleteguess I better get in touch with my inner-grammar "except to"
ReplyDeleteSister Anastatia would not be happy.
ReplyDeleteAgain, Mr Peters
ReplyDeleteIraq could have turned out differently. It didn't. And we must be honest about it. We owe that much to our troops. They don't face the mere forfeiture of a few congressional seats but the loss of their lives. Our military is now being employed for political purposes. It's unworthy of our nation.
From the Ralph Peters article cited by DR.
ReplyDelete" We'll still be the greatest power on earth, indispensable to other regional states — such as the Persian Gulf states and Saudi Arabia — that are terrified of Iran's growing might."
Like they're gonna trust us? Come on.
Our next big hurtle is to keep them from siding with the Soviets and the Chicoms who are on a roll in Iran. If I was in their shoes I'd be dialing Putin's number...now.
2164..please don't start working on your inner grammar ... I can't take the pressure and neither can our poor military men and women.
ReplyDeleteTrish,
ReplyDeleteI agree with a this caveat. Should we get nuked or dirty bombed in several cities in a simultaneous attack we will revert and destroy. Our public will demand it. If retaliation under those circumstances does not occur we will have civil war in this country because of failure to defend it.
If the currently constituted government under the circumstances outlined fails, anarchy will prevail, since it is the governments raison d'être to protect it's citizens and soverignty.
guess I better get in touch with my inner-grammar "except to"
ReplyDeleteI trust your inner grammar is nothing like Grammar Pelosi.
Here's another choice ditty from my 8:11 CENTCOM CHART post.
ReplyDeleteA spokesman for the Central Command declined to comment on the index or other information in the slide. “We don’t comment on secret material,” the spokesman said.
Hey, uh ,fella, it may be "secret" to you guys but guess what..THE ENTIRE FRIGG'N WORLD KNOWS.
Trish's observation that our Presidents now ser themselves as Presidents of the International Community is so, so righteous. Nice piece of thinking.
Is there anyone out there that does not believe, "Islam Is the problem"?
ReplyDeleteIslam sux, especially for womenfolk, but I'm not seeing problems in the Republic of Turkey. the Republic of Indonesia, Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, or Dearborn, Michigan. The problem isn't Islam, the problem is a diseased religion with the shell of Islam but the rotten inner core of a suicide cult. It goes back to the 1983 bombing of the marines in Beirut, which WORKED because Reagan pulled out. No one wants to point the finger at the Sacred Gipper because he was so good at getting us into red ink, just like Bush 43.
Just four workers in Kansas City, MO manufacture 35,000 fraudulent voter registrations. The four worked for ACRON, which is supporting McCaskill, oddly enough. An investigation is now underway in St. Louis.
ReplyDeleteDemocrats R Us
Virtual voters
DR,
ReplyDeletere: regional war = Iran & Syria
DR, that implies the Franco-American UNSC Resolution 1701 is a mistake. Surely not.
Mohammad, Mr. Putin on line one...
ReplyDeleteRussia, China Won't Back Iran Sanctions
NO SANCTIONS
Deuce,
ReplyDeletere: Rough coercion and aggressive interrogation is not torture except for the touchy-feely-innerchild-assholes we have
That is most of the administration, Deuce, except for the Vice-President, who told it like it is last week. Tony Snow then made a fool of himself speaking for a Vice-President who didn't want or need Mr. Snow's protection.
re: habu of trish
ReplyDelete"Nice piece of thinking."
I agree.
2164th said...
ReplyDeleteIs there anyone out there that does not believe, "Islam Is the problem"?
It isn't Islam per se that is the problem but the religious, the righteous. Look to our own invocations of GOD, everywhere. God Bless America, God Bless our troops, God this God that, no wonder so many have died in religions name throughout history. geeez, watching the world series and we get F18 flybys's and God Bless America sung at every 7th inning break. Kill, kill, kill, 'cause God is on OUR side....
Habu, don't you see the irony in your fear of a dirty bomb going off in a US city driving you to advocate going nuclear first? Naw, probably not but man you've got your panties all in a knot.
Ash,
ReplyDeleteHave a nice day.
and God bless you Habu...
ReplyDeletehabu,
ReplyDeleteWhat is the probability of any of those World Series fans volunteering for martyrdom? Baseball doesn't have that effect; Islam does.
As written earlier of Roman Catholics but equally applicable to Christians generally:
I’ll start worrying about Christians when they begin killing their women for the sake of “honor”, based on the Bible.
I’ll start worrying about Christians when they begin the genital mutilation of their women, based on the accepted interpretation of the Bible.
I’ll start worrying about Christians when they begin glorifying and supporting murder-suicide bombers, based on the Bible.
Mein Kampf was the bible of German fascism. The Koran is the bible of Islamic fascism. Neither Mein Kampf nor the Koran have any parallel within Christianity.
allen, US christians are doing a heck of alot of killing in Iraq. Is it only bad killing if you take yourself with it or can killing via remote control be just as bad? Its good 'cause you live to kill another day, right?
ReplyDeleteAsh, there is no prohibition against Christians killing their enemies. The British Monarch is also head of the Anglican Christian Church and "Defender of the Faith". They are not words for debating class.It is regrettable that you have difficulty making that distinction.
ReplyDeleteMein Kampf was the bible of German fascism. The Koran is the bible of Islamic fascism. Neither Mein Kampf nor the Koran have any parallel within Christianity.
ReplyDeleteThis does not compute, allen. The Koran is the bible of non-fascist Muslims too.
2164th, the righteous rears its ugly head. Our killing is good, because, why, they are the enemy, god is on our side? We are killing in Iraq because....please help me here. The Iraqis knocked over the WTC? We want them to convert to our form or government? Saddam is gone yet we continue. We have gone there to engage in killing...why, 'cause of Islam??? Habu is sounding all righteous, so is Desert Rat. Kill, kill, kill, its war, God is on our side. Is that it?
ReplyDeleteteresita,
ReplyDeleteSorry to be so non-PC, but one cannot be a Muslim without being a fascist.
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ReplyDeleteNo, ash, you miss understand.
ReplyDeleteIn a War, you do kill, kill, kill.
Then the War ends.
Now we do not kill anywhere near the kind of the scale required to end the War. So instead we get endless low intensity violence, instead of a short term conclusion to the conflict.
The Goals of the US are not attained. If the Goals are not worthy of the cost, well then do not go to war. But then again, the War was brought to US.
If it were up to me we'd leave Iraq, but it is not. What we are doing there now is immoral, IMO, because there is no desire to end the conflict through historicly proven means.
The idea that the status que with Mohammedan fascists is acceptable is not acceptable at all.
Using Ramadi as an example, the Isurgency lives in the belly of the residents. The only way to defeat the Insurgency is to beat the people. That we choose not to, guarentees defeat, for US.
Beat some of 'em now, or kill 'em all, later.
That's the choice.
redaktør,
ReplyDeleteYou may misunderstand some of us. We do not oppose Muslims killing Muslims; indeed, many here welcome that. What we oppose is the Bush administration's interference in the cleansing. An example is the State Department's construction of a $1 billion embassy in Baghdad. Those people are delusional!
As for me, I'm all for moving as much of our operation as humanly possible into Kurdistan, while turning a blind-eye to the Shia v Sunni feud. Civil wars can be very therapeutic.
re: Ash
Ash is a ray of sunshine. ;-)
aye Desert Rat but therein lies the problem, we are not really at war. In a war you've got to have an enemy to fight, and enemy we can define, locate and kill. In Iraq we don't have such a thing. As the glorius leader stated, we are have no problem with the Iraqi people it is Saddam, and now with Iran, it isn't the Iranian people, but the mullahs and their elected president. Do you really want to flip it, declare war on all Iraqis, all Iranians? Then bomb 'em all decimating the bunch? To what ends? It certainly won't stop Islamic radicalism as the current approach isn't either.
ReplyDeleteteresita,
ReplyDeletere: equivalency
We have had this conversation before. Muslims are enjoined the Koran to conquer the world and, in the process, convert the willing, while enslaving and murdering the unwilling. Muslims take the Koran seriously, as their history makes clear.
Now, I will not speak for Christians, but as to Judaism, I have asked you before to find some parallel to the bellicosity of Islam. Since you have not, I gather you cannot. And you cannot because the Tanakh does not require Jews to conquer the world, converting, enslaving, and murdering along the way.
I say again, good Nazis took Mein Kampf as revealed truth through the secular prophet Adolf Hitler. Muslims take the Koran as the revelation of divine truth through the religious prophet Mohammed. One could not be a Nazi and ignore Mein Kampf. One cannot be a Muslim and ignore the Koran.
To be completely fair, one cannot be a practicing Orthodox Jew while ignoring the Tanakh, but that is another matter entirely.
DR,
ReplyDeleteDo you think much would be gained by putting into play some number of air assets to decapitate Islamic leadership, globally? For instance, the Iranian leadership meets regularly above ground.
Now, I'm not asking if think it will happen.
allen,
ReplyDeleteNo. The idea that by picking off an occasional rosebud, we'll kill the bush is nonsensical.
The Israeli are on the third and most accomplished Hezbollah leader, after killing the first two. Killing the leaders just gets you new leaders.
The people of the Society have to remove the cancer themselves, or suffer the consequence.
To date there is not a precedent of consequence that will influence a Societies actions.
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ReplyDeleteDR,
ReplyDeleteYou misunderstand, I am most certainly not talking about "picking off an occasional rosebud."
I am suggesting a massive, simultaneous international coup.
When was the last mass killing of Jews within Israel, DR?
No, again.
ReplyDeleteIf the US Capital were attacked, during the State of the Union, killing the majority of the government, the US would not fold up.
Neither would Iran.
War or retreat,
those are the options.
Masada?
Ash,
ReplyDeleteHave a nice day.
Adolf Hitler committed suicide (?) on 30 April 1945. German commands began surrendering on 4 May 1945.
ReplyDeleteYes, the removal of a leader can have profound effects.
Oh, when Stalin died, the internal conditions of the CCCP improved markedly.
When the Israelis kill a Muslim leader, the organization must reach DOWN to find another. With each step DOWN trust, cohesion, and effectiveness are eroded.
DR,
ReplyDeletere: If the US Capital were attacked, during the State of the Union, killing the majority of the government, the US would not fold up.
You know this, how?
Cause you, habu, doug, buddy and I would still be alive.
ReplyDeleteThe Governor of AZ would still be alive. As would most of the other Governors. The Army would still be standing.
General Casey would still be alive
Jr would still be alive.
The Country is more, much more than the Government.
Hell, even Rudy Guliani would still be alive.
“‘You have a different culture; you're a different people,’ Mr. Barzani said. ‘With America's mentality and approach and regulations, we cannot win like this. There must be decisive action so the government can enforce the law and restore its prestige.’"
ReplyDeleteClaiming "the existing strategy is not effective," Mr. Barzani sees little changing “until the U.S. permits the Iraqi government to rid itself of the ‘terrorists, chauvinists and extremists’"…
A conversation with the president of Iraq's most successful region.
Sorry to be so non-PC, but one cannot be a Muslim without being a fascist.
ReplyDeleteMichael Jackson is a fascist? Omar Sharif is a fascist? Weird Al Yankovic and Malcolm X are fascists?
Good to see that people like Mr. Barzani are starting to take responsibility. Now the US needs to get out of the way.
ReplyDeleteI'm gonna wait -- after the baptism. I've decided to be Godfather to Connie's baby. And then I'll meet with Don Barzani -- and Tattaglia -- all of the heads of the Five Families.
teresita,
ReplyDeleteOne who submits to Islam and the teachings of the Koran given by Allah to the Prophet is a fascist. When one submits, one takes the whole construct.
Admittedly, when you place before me the name of such an exemplar of virtue as Michael Jackson, I must take stock of my conceit.
Lest you think me facetious, within the relatively liberal strictures of Islam pertaining to males, Michael Jackson's serial pederasty is acceptable behavior. So, in that sense he is virtuous and a model Muslim.
Teresita, I am willing to reconsider the use of “fascist” if you can provide a better description of a movement set on conquering the world, accompanied by coerced conversion and the attendant enslavement and murder of resisters.
I don't give a rat's ass if Barzani is a capo di tutti capi, so long as he is our capo di tutti capi. In fact, I much prefer dealing with a non-idealogue.
ReplyDeleteTeresita, I am willing to reconsider the use of “fascist” if you can provide a better description of a movement set on conquering the world, accompanied by coerced conversion and the attendant enslavement and murder of resisters..
ReplyDeleteBush believes the way to win the war on terror is to make the undemocratic world adopt democracy cold turkey, like going straight from Torquemada to the Founding Fathers with no intervening Rennaissance. He rammed democracy down the Afghani's throat in 2002 and he's ramming it down the Iraqi's throat now. Those who resist (Sunni insurgents) are either killed on the spot or taken into custody in Gitmo.
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ReplyDelete"Adolf Hitler committed suicide (?) on 30 April 1945. German commands began surrendering on 4 May 1945."
ReplyDeleteHitler was a man with a movement.
We're dealing with a movement with men. Killing UBL isn't going to end it, though it will kill a good organizer.
You need to kill everyone of these people and those that shelter them.
cutler said...,
ReplyDeleteI have no problem with taking out as many Muslims as necessary to establish order. That being the case, it seems logical to begin with the low hanging fruit, i.e. the konwn leadership.