What Really Happened in the Waco Motorcycle Gang Massacre?
Defendants and eyewitnesses complain of unjust mass arrests; lawyer tells Reason 'it was mainly the police shooting at sitting ducks'
Waco police (including a SWAT team) and officers from the state Department of Public Safety–who were all already on the scene, aware of the potential for trouble–swung into action, nipped the violent chaos in the bud, and put 177 violent criminals behind bars on charges of "engaging in organized criminal activity." Bail was uniformly, and understandably, set at $1 million.
So went the story as told at the time by the Waco police. But in the ensuing month the behavior of law enforcement that day has come increasingly into question.
First of all, the gathering was not just some premeditated bloody biker party with no legitimate intent. It was a meeting of a group called the Confederation of Clubs and Independents, a multi-biker-club confab dedicated to political chatter of interest to bikers. As Clay Conrad, a Houston lawyer whose firm is representing one arrested couple, William and Morgan English, pointed out in an interview, the gathering "was not a one-off, this was a frequent occurrence. These meetings would happen every couple of months [around Texas], and there has never been significant violence before. I believe at worse this would have been one murder if the police hadn't gone in and started shooting everyone in sight."
Conrad's spin is significantly different than that of the police. But it has been matched by numerous reports from other eyewitnesses, and people who have talked to eyewitnesses. The lawyer grants that the mayhem was launched by a conflict between members of the Cossacks and Bandidos biker gangs, in which one biker pulled a gun on another and started shooting. But that initial attack, Conrad insists, involved "no more than three rounds total of small arms fire, according to military vets on the scene who heard and knew how to recognize what guns sound like. All the rest of the fire came from police hardware. We believe that autopsies are going to show that at least six of the dead were shot by police, maybe all nine, and that the 18 wounded were shot by police."
William English, in an account circulated by his lawyer, said "I heard two pops that sounded like small caliber gunfire. Following that, I heard several bursts of assault weapon shots. I recognized the sound because I carried one of those weapons for six years as a Marine. That's all the gunfire I heard. Then the police started screaming 'Get down!'"
English told CNN that it was crazy to believe, as the police have claimed, that nearly everyone present was part of a criminal biker conspiracy preparing for violence. "Do you think I would want to take my wife to some place I know there was going to be shooting?" he asked. "Do you think I would want to be in a place where there was a shooting? I was in combat. I don't want to be shot at anymore."
English and his wife are members of a group called Distorted Motorcycle Club, and were there, he told local TV station KCEN, to participate in a "meeting of the Confederation of Clubs and Independents to talk about legislation for Motorcycle Awareness month." He noted in the interview that "part of your 300 weapons" that the police crowed about confiscating on the scene included his pocket knife.
English isn't alone in his assessment of what went down that day. A former Marine, Michael Devoll, told the local news station WFAA that he was just pulling into the Twin Peaks lot in a truck when he heard "a few rounds of handgun fire and then, I would say, an overbearing suppressing fire of M-4 rounds." Devoll characterized the ensuing melee as being mostly defined by a "barrage" of police rifle fire. "It was the most unorganized, unprofessional thing I've ever been a part of," he said.
The Associated Press reported, in the pages of the New York Times, that "several witnesses — at least three of them veterans with weapons training — told The Associated Press that the sound of rapid-fire rifle shots dominated," and that "Six witnesses interviewed by the AP describe a melee that began with a few pistol shots but was dominated by what sounded like short bursts of automatic gunfire." A named Navy vet, Steve Cochran, told the A.P. that "I heard one pistol shot. All the rest of the shots I heard were assault rifles," including sound-suppressed but audible rounds. The A.P. reporters who viewed some restaurant surveillance video say they saw only one verifiable shot fired by a biker, though they could only see the restaurant and patio, not the parking lot.
Conrad's partner, Paul Looney, had a more nuanced view today based on what he's pieced together from his clients, other eyewitnesses, and other lawyers representing other people arrested at the scene. He's not sure that all the shooting but for the first two or three shots was from police, but says as for the bikers, "I think that when it's all said and done there are four people with criminal liability and one of those people is dead"—that is, that at least one of the bikers shooting was himself shot dead.
Looney scoffs at the cookie-cutter document the police produced for every single arrested person, none of which provided any specific evidence that the arresting officer had seen them do any specific criminal act, besides being on the scene when some person or persons started shooting, and the police swept in to do some more shooting.
Waco Police spokesman Patrick Swanton claims that more biker guns were fired than police guns. The Waco police's most recent summation of the incident, from Chief Brent Stroman last week, asserts that only three officers fired at all, discharging just 12 shots. Forty-four total shell casings were reportedly found on scene, and Stroman categorically denied that his men fired "indiscriminately into the crowd." His most recent weapons-on-the-scene count is 475, including 151 firearms. The police impounded 130 motorcycles and 91 other vehicles, and so far have returned 52 of the motorcycles and 47 of the other vehicles. The police claim they found weapons buried on the grounds, and that somehow even at this late date the number of weapons on scene might still go up.
The constant harping on weapons found on the scene is clearly part of a public relations campaign to make citizens think that any amount of police firepower on the crowd of bikers was justified. But even after taking into account that law enforcement is counting things like pocket knives and wallet chains as weapons, the police have done nothing so far to prove publicly that possessing even the more potent weapons was a crime, or that those arrested were seen brandishing or using them. This is Texas, and these are (largely) guys in motorcycle clubs. Possessing weapons is not evidence of a crime, or even criminal intent.
The original $1 million bond for all 177 arrested is nearly impossible for most people to meet, even with a bail bondsman taking only 10 percent. Even the presiding judge said out loud that the large bail was designed to "send a message." Fortunately, once lawyers got involved, some sanity was applied to the proceedings. As of today, 142 have gotten out on bonds ranging from $25 thousand to the original million they all faced. As Associated Press discovered, 115 of these people pinned as being part of organized criminal gangs had no criminal record at all.
Even if, as the lawyers I've spoken to predict, the vast majority of those arrested eventually end up released unindicted, without specific proof of their intent or participation in any crime at the scene, that doesn't make the police's actions harmless. Imagine how your work life, family life, and home life, would be affected by being suddenly without warning locked away for weeks. Jobs, custody, relationships can all be lost. You've been marked in a manner not easily washed away.
At least one of the arrested, Matthew Clendennen, is suing the police officers involved and the city of Waco and McClennan County, essentially for false imprisonment. Clendennen, in a phone interview, says he was so late to the event and things were so chaotic he can't personally speak authoritatively to the question of who was shooting and when or why. He says that though he "rides with the Scimitars" and was aware of the political meeting aspect, "my main purpose was to hang out with friends."
Clendennen is suing because he feels damaged by the police. "They drug my name through the mud from a professional standpoint. I was born and raised in Waco and owned and operate a business in Waco and my business is based off of my reputation, and the initial report...the mugshot, all that stuff drug my name through the mud," he said. Clendennen can't yet testify that it's lost him any of his landscaping business, but "we survive off of people Googling my name, and to see all those reports [about his arrest] online?"
More painfully for Clendennen, while in jail "my ex-wife served me with a petition" to restrict his custodial arrangement with his son to supervised visits, and filed a restraining order, leaving him, thanks to the arrest, "in the middle of a legal battle" and unable to be alone with his son or to discuss his civil or criminal cases with him.
Clinton Broden, Clendennen's lawyer, said this week that he's in communication with other lawyers involved, and as far as they know no grand jury has yet indicted any of those arrested that day. If arrested without indictment in Texas, Broden says, you are entitled to a probable-cause hearing known as an examining trial, and Clendennen won't be getting his until August 10.
"People who don't make bond," says Conrad, English's lawyer, will sit in jail until at least August. "That is obscene. It's destroying people's lives to make some political point about not wanting bike clubs in Waco." While none of Conrad's clients are yet suing the police, Conrad can imagine a class action suit eventually arising. Conrad predicts a slow trickle of "no true bill" decisions, and the releasing of prisoners, with police hoping the public eventually loses interest in the story.
The notion that the police might have been at least partially in the wrong in the shooting incident, and almost entirely in the wrong in arresting so many people, has spread throughout the Waco community, leading to a June 7 "Waco Freedom Ride" biker rally in defense of the arrested that drew around 500 people, though those out on bond were not permitted by the conditions of their release to take part.
"Everyone involved in this wants the other side of the story out there," Conrad says. "There has been a false narrative put out by police of this huge biker melee and it isn't reality. Someone pulled a gun on somebody else and fired two or three shots. There was not this army of people shooting at each other. That never happened. It was mainly the police shooting at sitting ducks, or running ducks."
Sgt. Patrick Swanton of the Waco police told CNN in early June that "we won’t respond to allegations made by people in jail for probable cause, and the justice system is working the way it should." At this point, any possibly incontrovertible truth is buried in a morass of "cop said/suspect said." Sgt. Swanton did not return a call for comment or clarification as of posting; if I hear from him later, will update.
But the Waco police and the county court system have it within their power to settle most lingering doubts about whether the police did the right thing that day in Waco, chiefly by making actual evidence-citing indictments, and by releasing objectively verifiable information (including any video, which Chief Stroman said on June 12 was sent to the FBI for analysis, though there may well be recordings on some of the many confiscated cell phones the government wants to search) about how the dead were killed and the wounded were wounded. Chief Stroman says that federal ATF is handling the ballistics investigation into exactly what sort of weapons were used. But in general, rather than being more open, Waco police are doing the opposite: When Yahoo! News made a Texas Public Record Act request about the incident, the organization was mostly stonewalled and given a haphazard collection of redacted documents.
Clendennen's lawyer Broden maintains that "it doesn’t seem normal at all" that the police have revealed no hard facts about the sources of the mayhem. "Obviously they have access to preliminary information about the type and caliber of bullets and weapons that killed and wounded those people. I don't know why they have not released it."
>>English and his wife are members of a group called Distorted Motorcycle Club, and were there, he told local TV station KCEN, to participate in a "meeting of the Confederation of Clubs and Independents to talk about legislation for Motorcycle Awareness month."<<
ReplyDeleteThat's what really pisses me off. Here all these two wheeled junkies and drunks are fighting for community recognition of their good deeds and having a prayerful peace pow wow and all of a sudden the atmosphere is filled with lead projectiles, and they get the blame.
Meanwhile, Freddie Grey, may we all remember this punky pusher with compassion, had opiates and marijuana in his system upon entering the hospital, according to the hospital report. His lengthy rap sheet was admitted to the hospital along with Freddie, and the drugs in is system.
All the Police in our imperialistic overbearing country are goddamned dirty rotten stinking fascist nazi killing machines.
If it weren't for the Police, blessed peace would finally break out in Philly, Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore and all across the great squalor of the inner cities of the northeast US of A.
When are people going to finally wake up ?
So what if Freddie had been peddling heroin to kids, what's the big deal ?
DeleteJeezsch
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DeleteWhen are people going to finally wake up ?
I've heard the folks out in Ideeho sleep late.
Just saying.
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Quirk, you were deep undercover for the event, working for WXYZ out of Detroit, were you not ?
DeleteI've heard rumor you were drinking Vodka in the Bar when the first melee began.
What really happened ?
My dad was a lawyer, and I was taught never to believe public statements made by lawyers for the accused.
My dad said once, "Robert, these fucking lawyers all lie like hell when it suits them."
When he had something important to say to me, he always began with Robert.
Otherwise, he called me Leftie.
Quirk rides a Harley low slung he calls The Penetrator, Low and Fast.
DeleteHe was also armed for the event with: The Penetrator
The Penetrator is a melee weapon constructed from a metre-long dildo attached to a handle of a Baseball Bat. The physics emulate a jelly dildo when attacking or running.
http://saintsrow.wikia.com/The_Penetrator
And a 12 gauge double barreled sawed off shot gun hidden in his pants.
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DeleteYour familiarity with the odd manipulation of dildos is arrestive while completely unsurprising.
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Jihad Watch
ReplyDeleteExposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts
Obama Administration says Iran’s chants of “Death to America” are “not helpful,” but won’t have impact on nuke talks
June 23, 2015 1:22 pm By Robert Spencer
Video
Of course. Why should they? Just because they want to destroy us doesn’t mean that they won’t sit down and come to a mutually beneficial negotiated settlement with us, does it? Does it?
New Islamic State video shows them killing people in revolting new ways
Islamic State destroys Muslim shrine as part of "Elimination of Polytheist Landmarks" initiative
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/06/obama-administration-says-irans-chants-of-death-to-america-are-not-helpful-but-wont-have-impact-on-nuke-talks
G'Nite and Sleep Tight !
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DeleteNew Islamic State video shows them killing people in revolting new ways
Is there any thing but 'revolting' ways to kill anyone?
Farmington had his first execution scheduled in late 2013 via lethal injection. At that time, his body did not react to the sodium thiopental, which is the first in a series of three drugs given to someone being executed. Sodium thiopental is designed to render a person unconscious before they inject bromide, which causes paralysis, and finally potassium chloride, which induces cardiac arrest.
Dr. Robert Liston was the medical examiner on staff for the state prison during Farmington’s first execution.
“I have never seen anything like it in all my years as a medical doctor.” Said Liston. “Sodium thiopental is not something someone can generally be ‘immune’ to, but Farmington’s body did not react. The drug should have hit him within 30 seconds. We waited over ten minutes, then dosed him again. Nothing.”
Doctors and prison staff had no choice but to postpone the execution, and the governor granted temporary reprieve for Farmington, giving him another six months on death row, while he awaited his second execution date.
Last week, the prison again tried to execute Farmington, this time via electric chair.
“Farmington chose to not go through lethal injection a second time, and opted for electrocution.” Said Goldsmith. “We hadn’t fired up ol’ sparky since 2007, but it was his choice and we honored it.”
Prison officials were stunned when, for a second time, Farmington was spared death, this time when the electric chair failed to operate.
“We threw those switches, and on the third flip, you’re supposed to see sparks fly, but we saw nothing.” Said Goldsmith. “We got Farmington out of the chair, hooked everything back up, fired it up, and it worked like a charm. We didn’t even try putting him back in again.”
http://empirenews.net/death-row-inmate-survives-execution-released-from-prison/
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The corrupt racists and bullies aren't going to like the 21st Century.
ReplyDeleteI hope you are right.
DeleteIt's time the Islamoids got theirs, particularly the Iranians and the Saudis.
Is Pope Francis evil, befuddled, or an idiot, or some combination ?
ReplyDeleteCommie Pope
June 24, 2015 by Matthew Vadum
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2015/matthew-vadum/commie-pope/
It's time to face it.
DeletePope Francis is bonkers.
Please don't attach your idiot comments to my posts.
DeleteThat should read:
Delete"Please don't attach your comments to my idiot posts."
Matthew Vadum, another right wing sliming asshole. Good source.
DeletePlease don't call me a racist.
ReplyDeleteBlacks in the USA will never, or only long from now, give up playing the race card. Even though we are one of the least racism societies on earth.
As a group they have trouble competing. Even with affirmative action. It is self inflicted. It is culture.
They would rather say they are discriminated against by whitey.
Culture is hard to change. It's mostly up to them. They have made great progress in South Carolina. What a difference between South Carolina, of all places, and Baltimore.....
Self inflicted with the encouragement and enabling of the Democratic Party, USA.
DeleteI didn't call "you" anything.
DeleteDon't bother me, and I won't bother you.
You don't bother me.
DeleteYou're a chuckle.
Makes my morning sometimes.
I promise not to stalk you, and haven't.
DeleteI know what that's like.
I hardly ever comment on your economic rambles.
You don't know what you are talking about, but then nobody else knows anything about the economy, either.
WASHINGTON -- A year after it first announced a major minimum wage hike in its U.S. stores, Ikea said Wednesday that it plans to implement another nationwide raise to its wage floor next year, bringing the average store's starting pay to nearly $12 per hour.
ReplyDeleteUnder the system that the ready-to-assemble furniture maker first established in January, the starting wage for any given store in the U.S. reflects the cost of living in that particular area as determined by the MIT Living Wage Calculator, which takes into account the local cost of rent, food, transportation and the like. After the second round of raises, which is slated for this coming January, all of the company's U.S. stores will be paying at least $10 per hour, and the average minimum wage across all locations will be $11.87 -- a 10.3 percent increase over the previous year, according to the company.
Rob Olson, chief financial officer for Ikea U.S., told The Huffington Post that the company is already reaping dividends from its decision to hike the wage floor and to factor in the local cost of living in doing so.
"We're very pleased so far," Olson said.
So what types of benefits has Ikea seen?
For one, less turnover. Although it's only been six months since the raises went into effect, Olson said Ikea is on pace to reduce turnover by 5 percent or better this fiscal year. Holding onto employees longer means the company is spending less on recruiting and training new replacements.
Ikea is also attracting more qualified job seekers to work at its stores, according to Olson. Pay for retail sales workers in the U.S. is generally very low, with an average industry wage of just $12.38 per hour, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. But Ikea's average store wage is heading north of $15. After its living wage announcement last year, the company opened two new locations -- one in Merriam, Kansas, and another in Miami -- and the higher wages (and attendant publicity) likely helped the company lure more candidates.
Delete"At both of those stores, the applicant pool was fantastic," Olson said.
Ikea is just one of a number of major retailers, including Gap and Walmart, that have moved to boost their minimum wages in the past two years. But Ikea may have implemented its raises in the most unique manner, thanks to its reliance on the MIT Living Wage Calculator. For comparison, at the College Park, Maryland, store, in the Washington, D.C., suburbs, the minimum wage will be $14.54 next year, while at the store in Pittsburgh, it will be $10.
The recent raises implemented by retailers aren't all about benevolence. Although these decisions are partly a response to calls for higher wages for the working poor -- particularly due to the success of the Fight for $15 labor movement -- they're also calculated business decisions made in an improving labor market. As the economy recovers and unemployment falls, retailers have to compete to attract talent in a way they didn't need to during the recession and sluggish recovery.
Quoting the company's stated vision, Olson said the wage raises are meant to "create a better everyday life for the many people" -- the many people, in this case, being Ikea's employees.
But at the same time, he noted, "it makes strong business sense."
Ikea
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ReplyDeleteI find it interesting (and disturbing) that the country now seems fixated on the minimum wage. Not that I am in any way against a higher minimum wage. The workers that qualify for minimum wage deserve every penny they can get. However, the percentage of workers earning minimum wage in this country is small, anywhere from 2% to 5% depending on how they are measured (as percent of all workers, hourly workers, etc.). They tend to be young for fr the most part and many hold these jobs as second or third sources of income.
The press increased minimum wages are getting seems to give the impressing that minimum wages will somehow act as the catalyst for lifting all boats when t comes to wages in this country. IMO, while beneficial to those receiving the increased wages, they will have little effect on raising overall wages in this country.
What is disturbing is that now we wax poetic about a rising minimum wage whereas back in the 60's and 70's it was union wage increases we were talking about, changes in the top end of the wage scale, changes that actually moved the needle on the average wage in this country.
IMO, that is a sad commentary on the progress or lack of it made by the average worker in this country over the past 30 years. More troubling is that it may represent a new normal and presage worse to come.
I have to admit that over the past 10-15 years I have become more and more conspiracy minded. I now wonder if all the press the minimum wage is getting is all part of a huge PR campaign to condition us for what's coming.
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This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteAlways remember, there's a set of handcuffs out there, and a jail cell too, with your name on them.
DeleteJust keep that always in mind.
Play it safe.
Run low, slow and silent.
Work the shadows.
Don't even confide in the wife............
Bobby Jindal is announcing his run for the Republican nomination.
ReplyDeleteHe's a good guy.
What a talent pool the Republicans have this year !
Meanwhile latest poll has The Donald trailing The Bush by only three points, 14% to 11%.
Judicial Watch is a good group -
ReplyDeleteJune 24, 2015
Judicial Watch sues for Secret Service records on costs for Bill Clinton's travel to Orgy Island
By Thomas Lifson
One of the most shameful episodes in Bill Clinton’s life is his buddying up with Jeffrey Epstein, hedge fund billionaire and proprietor of a private Island, Little Saint James, where underage girls served as sex slaves. And given his history with Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey, Monica Lewinski, Gennifer Flowers, and many others we have never heard of, that is saying a lot.
The New York Post has reported:
According to Virginia Roberts, who claims to have been one of Epstein’s many teenage sex slaves, Clinton also visited Epstein’s private Caribbean retreat, known as “Orgy Island.”
“I remember asking Jeffrey, ‘What’s Bill Clinton doing here?’” Roberts said in 2011. The former president, she added, was accompanied by four young girls during his stay — two of whom were among Epstein’s regular sex partners. “And [Jeffrey] laughed it off and said, ‘Well, he owes me a favor.’ He never told me what favors they were.”
In fairness, after Epstein signed a plea agreement that made him a registered Tier 1 sex offender and served 13 months in jail, Bill Clinton dropped him from his circle of friends.
Judicial Watch announced yesterday that it is suing under the Freedom of Information Act to obtain access to Secret Service records of all expenses,
…incurred to provide “security and or/other services” to former President Bill Clinton during his trips to the Caribbean island of convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein (Judicial Watch v. U.S. Department of Homeland Security (No. 1:15-cv-00915)).
As the head of JW notes:
“If there is nothing to hide in the Epstein scandal, then why is the Obama administration breaking federal transparency law rather than giving us information about his travels? That we’ve now had to go to federal court to try to get this Secret Service information speaks volumes,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “Beginning with his misuse of state troopers when he was an Arkansas governor, Bill Clinton has a long record of abusing his taxpayer-funded security details to facilitate and cover-up his illicit sexual activities.”
His wife, Hillary, served as First Enabler, helping cover up “bimbo eruptions” and benefitting from public sympathy as the betrayed woman.
The American people deserve to know how much of their hard-earned tax funds have been spent to enable Bill Clinton’s visit to Orgy Island.
Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/06/judicial_watch_sues_for_secret_service_records_on_costs_for_bill_clintons_travel_to_orgy_island.html#ixzz3dzvHcF3E
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook
Growth’s Secret Weapon: The Poor and the Middle Class: The gap between the rich and the poor is at its widest in decades in advanced countries, and inequality is also rising in major emerging markets... It is becoming increasingly clear that these developments have profound economic implications.
ReplyDeleteEarlier IMF work has shown that income inequality is bad for growth and its sustainability. Our new research shows that income distribution itself—not just the level of income inequality—matters for growth.
Specifically, we find that making the rich richer by one percentage point lowers GDP growth in a country over the next five years by 0.08 percentage points—whereas making the poor and the middle class one percentage point richer can raise GDP growth by as much as 0.38 percentage points... Put simply, boosting the incomes of the poor and the middle class can help raise growth prospects for all.
One possible explanation is that the poor and the middle class tend to consume a higher fraction of their income than the rich. ... What this means is that the poor and the middle class are key engines of growth. But with inequality on the rise, those engines are stalling.
Over the longer run, persistent inequality means that the the poor and the middle class have fewer opportunities to get educated, enhance their skills, and pursue their entrepreneurial dreams. As a result, labor productivity and growth suffer. ...
Economist's View
As we wait for King v Burwell – just how far are Republicans on the court willing to destroy the institution’s reputation on behalf of their party? – one question I found myself wondering about was how much of its original goal Obamacare has achieved. We know that the number of uninsured has dropped sharply; we also know that there are still a lot of uninsured. So how are we doing?
ReplyDeleteThere are three issues that, I find, most reporting on the program’s progress tend to ignore. The first is that the ACA was never intended to cover everyone – undocumented immigrants aren’t eligible, yet account for several percent of the population. Second, because signup isn’t automatic, there will always be some leakage, some eligible people who fall through the cracks. Finally, of course, a large number of states are refusing to expand Medicaid and in general trying to obstruct the law.
So it seems to me that to evaluate the program we should (a) look at states that have implemented the law as it was intended to work and (b) compare with a realistic benchmark. For the latter, I’d suggest Massachusetts, where Romneycare has been in operation for almost a decade – and which still has 5 percent of adults age 18-64 uninsured, probably about half undocumented immigrants and half eligible residents falling through the cracks.
How is Obamacare doing relative to that benchmark in its second year of operation? The answer is, pretty well. In Medicare expansion states, it’s already around 80 percent of the way there:
Excellent Chart
And notice that this been achieved while the deficit has been shrinking and we’ve been having the best job growth since the 1990s. Folks, this program works; not perfectly, but every single claim by its opponents — it won’t reduce the number of uninsured, it will cause soaring rates, it will explode the deficit, it will kill jobs — has been proved false.
Excellent Chart
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DeleteYou had me until the last.
It won't reduce the number of uninsured?
No one ever said that. In fact, they argued the opposite. In the beginning proponents of the program argued Obamacare would allow 49 million million uninsured people to get insurance. Then it was 30 million. Who knows what they are saying now? Opponents merely argued that bringing that many people on board would cost too much, that there would be a shortage of doctors, etc.
Likewise, it is good to remember the number of people who are not eligible for Obomacare subsidies because they are not working by choice or because it is forced on them.
It will cause soaring rates?
Still too early to tell. One year doesn't make a trend. We will get a better idea in a few months when 2016 rates are finalized. The first year insurance companies were all bidding to get in the game. They had little info on who or how many people would be signing up or what their costs would be. Now, after a year they have a better idea and can judge what part of the population has signed up and how much they are using the insurance. They can exit unprofitable markets or raise rates (if allowed). It will likely be a few years before we see the full effect of Obamacare on rates. We should also make sure to distinguish between 'overall insurance costs' and 'insurance rates', two things often conflated by both sides to try to make their points. When speaking of coverage costs we also have to distinguish between those on Obamacare and those not as usage by the former could be affected by the high deductible and co-pays on many of the policies.
It will explode the deficit?
Obama claimed that Obamacare would save the typical American family $2,500 per year in insurance costs. When we first talked of Obamacare, the costs was estimated to be just under $1 trillion over 10 years. Later estimates (since the costs were delayed a few years) almost doubled that estimate. Even, later estimates lowered the projected costs. The gruberized seem to somehow consider reductions from the original estimate as 'savings'. They forget about the $700 million pulled from Medicare. And (swear to god) Obama has actually bragged at the number of people he has put on Medicaid.
Some of the gruberized still seem to believe that their is no real costs associated with all of the subsidies the government is paying out.
The following list may be dated since I couldn't find a date on it: however, it provides and easy to follow summary of the $500 billion in new taxes that were included in the initial calculation for Obamacare.
http://www.icanbenefit.com/obamacare-means-sweeping-new-taxes-american-public
The list doesn't include the hundreds of $ billions associated with the 'Doc-Fix' which would have provided revenue but now been absorbed through congressional decree. Expect the same thing to happen with the 'Cadilac Tax'.
There is no free lunch. As for the deficit, hell, we can always write another chit.
It will kill jobs?
Don't remember that. However, that would take and extended debate. Here is an article (rather long, as is the Atlantic's wont) that goes into the trends in employment in the US.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/07/world-without-work/395294/
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DeleteThere is no Free Lunch: The Continuing Saga of Obamacare
Obamacare program costs $50,000 in taxpayer money for every American who gets health insurance, says bombshell budget report
- Stunning figure comes from Congressional Budget Office report that revised cost estimates for the next 10 years
- Government will spend $1.993 TRILLION over a decade and take in $643 BILLION in new taxes, penalties and fees related to Obamacare
- The $1.35 trillion net cost will result in 'between 24 million and 27 million' fewer Americans being uninsured – a $50,000 price tag per person at best
- The law will still leave 'between 29 million and 31 million' nonelderly Americans without medical insurance
- Numbers assume Obamacare insurance exchange enrollment will double between now and 2025
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2927348/Obamacare-program-costs-50-000-American-gets-health-insurance-says-bombshell-budget-report.html#ixzz3e0sUS96t
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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DeleteThe number comes from figures buried in a 15-page section of the nonpartisan organization's new ten-year budget outlook.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2927348/Obamacare-program-costs-50-000-American-gets-health-insurance-says-bombshell-budget-report.html#ixzz3e0uDjOdi
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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DeleteOffsetting that massive outlay will be $643 billion in new taxes, penalties and fees related to the Obamacare law.
That revenue includes quickly escalating penalties – or 'taxes,' as the U.S. Supreme Court described them – on people who resist Washington's command to buy medical insurance.
It also includes income from a controversial medical device tax, which some Republicans predict will be eliminated in the next two years.
If they're right, Obamacare's per-person cost would be even higher.
President Barack Obama pledged to members of Congress in 2009, as his signature insurance overhaul law was being hotly debated, that 'the plan I'm proposing will cost around $900 billion over 10 years.'
It would be a significant discount if the White House could return to that number today
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2927348/Obamacare-program-costs-50-000-American-gets-health-insurance-says-bombshell-budget-report.html#ixzz3e0uetVMe
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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DeleteYet, this is what we get from the Grubers and the Gruberized in the liberal media
Right-Wing Media Won't Tell You That The CBO's New Obamacare Cost Estimates Are Lower Than Expected
http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/01/27/right-wing-media-wont-tell-you-that-the-cbos-ne/202280
Lower than expected? This is the same bull that every pol, every Congressman, every Senator, every presidential staff uses every day. You project spending $2 trillion, cut that number by $200 million, and pat yourself on the back for saving the taxpayers $200 million. You are still spending $1.8 trillion you dumb shits.
Then to emphasize their point more, out of a 10 year budget they pick the 4 years that help them try to make their point better.
And the sheeple and the gruberized not their heads and bleat, "Sweet man. What a deal. Good job, Brownie."
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In U.S., Homegrown Radicals Are More Deadly Than Jihadis
ReplyDeleteBy SCOTT SHANE
Counter to public perception, nearly twice as many people have been killed on American soil since Sept. 11, 2001, by white supremacists and other non-Muslim extremists than by radical Muslims, according to a research group.
nytimes.com
must be the white culture, eh bob?
DeleteSorry, I know the guy is a goof, but this stuff is funny:
ReplyDelete"Idaho BobWed Jun 24, 07:54:00 AM EDT
Please don't call me a racist.
Blacks in the USA will never, or only long from now, give up playing the race card. Even though we are one of the least racism societies on earth.
As a group they have trouble competing. Even with affirmative action. It is self inflicted. It is culture. "
It is funny watching you try to think Bob.
another headline from nytimes.com
ReplyDelete"Despite Killings, Clergy Balk at Idea of Tighter Security
By LAURIE GOODSTEIN 11:59 AM ET
The massacre last week in Charleston, S.C., has heightened anxiety among clergy members and the faithful, forcing black churches in particular to grapple with their vulnerability."
Speaking of culture - what kind of culture creates church goers who have to worry about security with one solution being the usual mantra of 'duh, if only they had guns of their own'?
Bob, that's culture, your schtick, right?
C'mon, Ash, as an intellectual and the son of an educator, you know full well blacks are having trouble competing. Many are having trouble graduating from junior high school, much less high school.
ReplyDeleteSo are you saying they are innately inferior ?
Or are they hamstrung by their inner city 'culture' ?
What does your daddy tell you is the correct answer, Ash ?
The one, the other, some combination, what ?
In your world, Bob, there is Black Culture, White Culture and Islamic Culture. Does that about cover it? Oh right, you've parsed things out nice and fine and got Hispanic Culture in there as well. You go Bob!
DeleteWhat is the answer, Ash ?
DeleteWhy do Asians and Jews, to name two other groups, not need affirmative action and do so well ?
Are they just 'brighter', or is it something about the culture of these two groups, their emphasis on family, excellence, obeying the law, aversion to drugs, etc - their 'culture' - that leads them to success ?
As a noted intellectual in your own right, and as the son of an educator, you must have formed some opinion on these matters, Ash.
Please share.
Fuck, Bob, give your head a shake - Not all Asians share the same culture, nor all Jews. You are, by definition, a racist.
DeleteFuck, Ash, give your head a shake, not all blacks share the same culture.....
DeleteYou dumbfuck, it's a perfectly good question and you are just trying to evade it.
Cause the answer is soooooo obvious, even you know what the correct answer is, and you don't wanna face it.
Now answer honestly, forthrightly, or go play with yourself.
What's the question you are asking? Is it a binary one Nature vs Nurture?
DeleteIf you've got an answer to a question give it but don't fantasize about me answering questions formulated by you.
Why are blacks in our inner northeastern cities so fucked up ?
DeleteThat is what I am asking.
The blacks of the church in Charleston, South Carolina seem entirely different.
Why ?
I can't make it any simpler for you, Ash.
Struggle with it.
"Ash, the fault is in ourselves, and not in our stars"
Shamelessly stolen, modified, and adapted from Shakespeare...........
. .......... . ......
>>If you've got an answer to a question give it but don't fantasize about me answering questions formulated by you.<<
Bwabwabwahahaha....
Now THERE is the perfect "answer", the ultimate dodge............
You have succeeded again !
My mood lightens.
The belly shakes.
I hear myself laughing right out loud.....!
Only Ash could come up with such a creative cop out.
bwabwahahahaha
I won't expect an answer from you Ash.......
I never really did.
bwbwabwa....
Your questions are foolish ole Bob and you sure are desperately in need of answers. I hope you achieve some form of wisdom in your Alice in Wonderland adventure. But I hold little hope you will succeed.
DeleteAnd RUFUS, you old hog wallowed Beam drinking grease ball, I suggest those churched black folks in Charleston, South Carolina handled that situation PERFECTLY.
DeleteYou are perpetually bitching about Christianity, about which you know zero, and hooting and rooting about concerning it.
Taking off from William James, it's the 'fruits for life' that count, it's a pragmatic judgement.
That which brings forth life, more live, nurtures life......that's good.
There wasn't a thoughtless, hateful, revenge seeking, blame it all on whitey comment among all those members of that black church.
That is a true reason to be hopeful.
They blamed the right guy, and only him, blacks and whites came together, they tried to make something positive out of it.
I'd be happy to sing and pray with these folks any time, regardless that my interpretation of things might be quite different underneath.
It's the fruits for life that count in this world.
And those folks got that !
You are just totally rambling now, Noble Ash.
DeleteAnswer, or give it up.
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DeleteWhile I hate to do it, Ash, in this case I have to agree with O'bumble, I think. I say I think because as usual his response is filled with left turns and non-sequiturs (common amongst the elderly as they cope with encroaching senility) that make it difficult to decipher his exact meaning.
You, Ash, IMO suffer from being on the cutting edge of liberal thinking. Perhaps it is because your father was an academic. Perhaps, it is because you were raised in Canada a country overshadowed by the US but still trying to hang on desperately to its own cultural identity. At any rate, your reflect the changing face of liberalism.
For years, the left took pride in hyphenated Americanism, Black-Americans, Native-Americans, Spanish-Americans, etc. Got a minority? Simply name it and hyphenate it. Stress the unique cultural characteristics of every group that must be preserved.
This was great for identifying these groups as victims and creating legal 'remedies' for them groups, forced integration, hate crime legislation, quotas, set-asides, subsidies, incentives, grants, etc. However, now that that trend has pretty much run its course and in some areas even been reversed, its time for a u-turn.
Now the new strategy seems to be to eliminate all of these differences. To eliminate gender bigotry (as defined by the left naturally) you simply eliminate gender. We see it new mandated middle-school/high school curriculum that includes 'Spectrum' classes, those that teach there is not just two genders but a whole spectrum of choices, male, female, neither. both, a combination, whatever you like. Likewise, now there is a push to eliminate all discussion based on differences by race or ethnicity. Now, if you offer up any negative on a particular unique culture (other than white which may take a while, perhaps a long long while) you are ipso facto racist.
.
.
DeleteIt is simply how the left rolls. Undoubtedly, effective over time in changing attitudes for good or evil but intellectually wanting.
.
Lordy, left and right are how you class folk is it Quirk? You certainly pinned a lot of opinions on me there that I didn't know I had.
DeleteYou and your pal BooB should carry on with his scintillating assessments of culture as defined by race.
.
DeleteYes, it is how I class folk, Ash. It is widely used way, a shorthand way if you like, of comparing people based on the opinions they express. Liberal and conservative are used similarly. As are hawk and dove. Though these broad categories are often divided into sub-categories to narrow down the comparisons, social conservative or fiscal hawk for instance.
You certainly pinned a lot of opinions on me there that I didn't know I had.
Thank you. But I am only doing my job.
.
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DeleteYou and your pal BooB should carry on with his scintillating assessments of culture as defined by race.
?
I was merely commenting on your inability or unwillingness to answer Bob's questions on a subject you yourself raised.
...scintillating assessments of culture as defined by race.
Culture defined by race?
Sorry, I guess I missed that.
.
Yeah, you missed it. You are displaying a comprehension level equal to bob's. Here let me post, again, his brilliance:
Delete"Idaho BobWed Jun 24, 07:54:00 AM EDT
Please don't call me a racist.
Blacks in the USA will never, or only long from now, give up playing the race card. Even though we are one of the least racism societies on earth.
As a group they have trouble competing. Even with affirmative action. It is self inflicted. It is culture. "
Now, quirk, be a good boy and help b00bie with his questions.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Delete.
DeleteThe questions weren't directed to me, Ash, they were directed to you. It is up to you to explain it to Obumble.
There are a number of points made in the post you re-posted. Answer for him and explain where he is being racist.
Blacks in the USA will never, or only long from now, give up playing the race card.
Do blacks play the race card? Did they ever? Are they now? If the former, is it racist to point that out? What about the blacks who speak for the black community? Do they play the race card? If not, point it out to the boy.
Even though we are one of the least racism societies on earth.
Slightly faulty English to be sure, especially for an English major, still if you believe the statement to be untrue simply go to Google and point out the statistics for him.
As a group they trouble competing. Even with affirmative action.
Again, should be simple. If you feel the statement is wrong, simply provide some evidence showing where he is wrong. Should be easy.
It is self inflicted. It is culture.
This is an opinion, Obumble's opinion. If you believe the statement is incorrect provide some evidence to argue that. If you believe the opinion in and of itself reflects racism, specifically state that along with the reasons why.
Now, going back over Obumble's history here you might more easily make your case; but, what we are talking about today is specifically 'culture'. You need to do a little more than merely shouting 'racist'.
That's what some liberals would instinctively do.
:o)
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"Do blacks play the race card? "
DeleteNeed I say more? By DEFINITION that makes it "racist" if you accept that "black" is a racial signifier.
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DeleteVery good, Ash.
Need I say more?
Of course, the post you re-posted had a lot of elements. You merely answered the first question. The post that actually started the whole line of questioning centered on 'culture' and you haven't got to that one yet.
.
You think this is a good line if you've inquiry do you?
Delete"As a group they have trouble competing. Even with affirmative action. It is self inflicted. It is culture.
They would rather say they are discriminated against by whitey.
Culture is hard to change. It's mostly up to them. They have made great progress in South Carolina. What a difference between South Carolina, of all places, and Baltimore....."
Your tinfoil hat, Quirk, appears to be over heating your brain and causing cognitive damage where a community responding to a single guy shooting up a church differs from another communities response to police brutality is a head scratcher for you.
OGF says her Egyptian friend wouldn't live in Egypt or Israel, considering both places too dangerous.
ReplyDeleteSo that doesn't help one way or the other with my Thought Experiment.
Too busy today to urge it further forward, but am working on it in a way.
There is never enough time for we Protestant Work Ethic types......
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ReplyDeleteReason #17 for why the US should not be in the ME.
Between Turkey’s suspicion of the Kurds and Sunni Arab governments’ suspicion of the Shiite militias, it’s reasonable to wonder just how long the uncomfortable anti-ISIS coalition can hang together. With U.S. officials now openly discussing the possibility that Iraq may not survive this conflict as a unified country, it seems quite likely that more conflicts over land and resources will emerge if and when ISIS is ever defeated.
For one more example of the conflicts that are emerging, consider the case of the Druze Israelis, who are heavily represented in the country’s military and police, who have been attacking IDF ambulances carrying wounded Syrian rebels in Northern Israel in recent days over reports of attacks on Druze villages in Syria. A few months ago, it seemed like one silver lining of the ISIS war might have been that previously antagonistic groups in the Middle East were uniting against a common enemy. Instead, the fight appears to be worsening some long-running tensions that many didn’t even realize existed.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/23/the_strange_coalitions_of_unlikely_allies_in_the_war_against_isis_are_coming.html
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By the way, the Czar 'Liberator' Alex II freed the serfs, not the slaves.
ReplyDeleteIf you are ever given the choice between being a serf, or a slave, by all means choose to be a serf.
Casino Time !
Cheers
Here in the America of the United States we never had serfdom.
DeleteHappily, just the opposite.....endless horizons of land for born free farmers.
Zippady doo Dah...
DeleteNot that I know what zippity do da is supposed to signify in this context, but zip to you as well.
DeleteThe reason I mentioned the Czar Alex II was to point out the vast differences between Russia and the USA in those days.
We simply did not have an autocrat here who had the writ and the grit to simply out law slavery, and free the slaves.
Millions of compassionate Americans struggled to end slavery here, a movement started by the religious in New England, and, finally, it took a Civil War to do it.
All real Americans wished the slaves not to languish in slavery any longer. Only the frozen hearts thought, well, let them languish, maybe someday someway it will just go away.
Hey folks, I've finally got the low down on this Juan Cole character that Deuce is always using as an authority on everything.
ReplyDeleteIt isn't pretty, but here it is -
Juan Cole blames Charleston race murders on Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller
June 24, 2015 7:32 pm By Robert Spencer 25 Comments
juancoleUniversity of Michigan professor Juan Cole reveals how uninterested in truth and rational analysis the academic Left and the purveyors of the “Islamophobia” myth really are with this vile little blood libel. It was an imaginative attempt to validate the Left’s obsessive insistence that opposition to jihad terror is “racism,” but to say it founders on the facts is to understate the case.
First, Cole tries to breathe new life into the tired Breivik meme, claiming that “Islamophobes” “helped whip Norwegian white supremacist and terrorist Anders Brevik [sic] into a homocidal [sic] fever pitch.” That Breivik was a lone psychopath and not the vanguard of an army of “right-wing terrorists” stirred up by Pamela Geller and me is a keen disappointment to Cole and his comrades, and so in their need for bogeymen they have no alternative other than to keeping trotting him out, hoping that their readers won’t notice that he was singular, and years ago, and that he himself criticized me and the others who are supposed to have incited him to homicidal rage for being “to [sic] scared to propagate a conservative revolution and armed resistance.” In other words, he hated us for rejecting violence, which we’re supposed to have goaded him to commit.
Anyway, even more devastating for Cole is the fact that the murderous psychopath in Charleston, Dylann Storm Roof, in his own insane “manifesto” never once mentions me, or Pamela Geller, or Geert Wilders, or Daniel Pipes, or Islam, or Muslims. But that doesn’t stop Juan Cole. It is clear that Cole and his ilk so hate and fear us now that no leap of logic, no abandonment of rationality, is too great if it affords them a new chance to demonize us.
And why this venomous hatred? What about Pamela Geller and me moves Juan Cole to such a towering rage that he will make himself look like an idiot to defame us? Here is a clue: Juan Cole is on the Board of the National Iranian American Council (NIAC), which has been established in court as a front group lobbying for the Islamic regime in Iran. Said Michael Rubin: “Jamal Abdi, NIAC’s policy director, now appears to push aside any pretense that NIAC is something other than Iran’s lobby. Speaking at the forthcoming ‘Expose AIPAC’ conference, Abdi is featured on the ‘Training: Constituent Lobbying for Iran’ panel. Oops.” According to the Daily Caller: “Iranian state-run media have referred to the National Iranian-American Council (NIAC) since at least 2006 as ‘Iran’s lobby’ in the U.S.” Iranian freedom activist Hassan Daioleslam “documented over a two-year period that NIAC is a front group lobbying on behalf of the Iranian regime.” NIAC had to pay him nearly $200,000 in legal fees after they sued him for defamation over his accusation that they were a front group for the mullahs, and lost.
Yet Juan Cole remains on their Board.
Note also his fixation on the fact that Geller and Pipes are Jewish.
“European Islamophobic Networks influenced Roof to Kill in Charleston,” by Juan Cole, Informed Comment, June 21, 2015:
DeleteThe Muslim-hatred of the Geert Wilders and Marine LePens in Europe, for which Daniel Pipes, and Pamela Geller, and the whole Islamophobic network are cheerleaders and enablers, was a key influence on Dylann Roof, according to his manifesto. These same hatemongers helped whip Norwegian white supremacist and terrorist Anders Brevik [sic] into a homocidal [sic] fever pitch in July of 2011, when he killed 77 Norwegians for allegedly being soft on Muslims….
Where would he have found allegations that white Europeans are being victimized by immigrants? Here is what I wrote about Anders Breivik:
“Breivik’s passions were whipped up, according to his diary, by reading anti-Muslim hatemongers such as Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller and Daniel Pipes (whose “Campus Watch” is an Israeli settler-oriented attempt to deny tenure to American academics critical of Israel’s oppression of the stateless Palestinians, and to harass more senior professors with character assassination).”
It was apparently similar writings and web sites that made Roof “completely racially aware.”
Unhinged millionaires and bigoted gadflies have a network funded by tens of millions of dollars. It is aimed at disenfranchising Muslim Europeans and Muslim-Americans and putting them under social pressure.
Ironically, some groups connected to the Islamophic Network are, like Geller and Pipes, Jewish. But their anti-immigrant, anti-Arab and anti-Muslim rhetoric backfired on them in Roof’s case, since he went on heartily to hate Jews, as well. Many American Jews, he held, are pro-African-American, and so he abhorred them, as well….
Or maybe Roof is an enemy of everything people like Pamela Geller stand for. But a compromised academic such as Juan Cole would never admit that.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/06/juan-cole-blames-charleston-race-murders-on-robert-spencer-and-pamela-geller
Juan Cole is nuts, and needs counseling.
Juan Cole is on the Board of the National Iranian American Council (NIAC), which has been established in court as a front group lobbying for the Islamic regime in Iran
DeleteWhy am I not surprised ?
The National Iranian American Council (NIAC) is far better on its worse day for US interests than AIPAC which has been established as a front group lobbying for the Zionist regime in Israel.
DeleteHeh
DeleteShakes head
Rubs eyes
Laughs and sighs inwardly
Heh
I should have known it
Heh
Juan Cole is and Iranian Agent
Hey Quirk, did you pick up on that ?
Juan Cole is an Iranian Agent !!
an
DeleteSun is up.
Time to head off to work.
Cheers !!
(We are supposed to hit 100 degrees here today - do your work before noon)
CNBC - Top State for Business: Minnesota
ReplyDeleteCoding will be taught in ALL Arkansas High Schools next year.
ReplyDeleteMore good numbers this morning. Personal Income, and Spending, are, both, running about 6% annualized this quarter, with inflation running at approx. 1.8%.
ReplyDeleteAnd, Jobless Claims continue to be very low at 271,000 last week.
Bloomberg
Obamacare Wins 6-3
DeleteAh yes, the sock puppet Rufus spins the legacy of Obama…
DeleteNothing changes.
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DeleteI think this decision was expected by most people especially given Robert's leadership of the court.
Roberts didn't want Obamacare gutted on his watch. Obama and the Dems naturally wanted it upheld. The GOP is breathing a sigh of relief since if the decision had gone the other way they wouldn't have known whether to shit or go blind. There was no Plan B from either side. Another decision would have left millions including a couple of my relatives in dire straits.
That being said, IMO, this decision can only be called judicial activism. Especially, given John Roberts words in the opinion he wrote,
"Congress passed the Affordable Care Act to improve health insurance markets, not to destroy them. If at all possible, we must interpret the Act in a way that is consistent with the former, and avoids the latter,"
Roberts offers us his opinion of the intent for everything in the Act. He assumes that the wording was a careless error, that in fact the people who wrote it that way never meant it that way, that we have to go not by what they say but by what they thought. In my opinion, that is a hell of a way to run a railroad or in this case a court.
Given ol' John's propensity to do 'a little interpetin' when it suits him, I have to agree with Scalia, at least to a degree, when he says Obamacare should now be called SCOTUScare.
I have always been of the opinion the Court should rule on the law as it is written. If there are mistakes in the law as written it can easily be corrected, in this case, with a one line sentence as the president has said.
On the issue of the contested wording itself, having been through the whole Gruber affair, it's my opinion that the wording is exactly what the writers of the bill had in mind. It was an attempt by the writers to seduce the states into setting up their own exchanges thus relieving the FEDS of the trouble and cost of managing the exchanges (ala Medicaid) while still maintaining control over the entire program. That Congress didn't read the bill, or that they read it and didn't understand it, or that they read and understood perfectly what it said, is irrelevant. They can't later say, 'do what I think not what I say.' The same applies to the Court one degree removed.
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well said!
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDeuce ☂Thu Jun 25, 06:05:00 AM EDT
ReplyDeleteThe National Iranian American Council (NIAC) is far better on its worse day for US interests than AIPAC which has been established as a front group lobbying for the Zionist regime in Israel.
Your comment shows the depth of your ignorance about AIPAC. Your characterization of Israel and it's founding Zionist principles as a "zionist regime" is blatantly racist.
But that's par for the course at the Elephant Blog Bar where Hamas and Iranian terror are promoted as democracy.
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ReplyDeleteThe author of the following article offers us a (dare I say it?)...gulp...thought experimentas he posits the following question,
Who is Currently the Most Dangerous Threat to America?
The Grand Dilemma: What Is the Most Dangerous Threat to America?.
He goes on to say that in his opinion the four biggest threats facing us today are Russia, China, Iran, and Isis in that order. He also gives his reasons for prioritizing them that way. He indicates that
What can Washington do in these circumstances? Ideally, it would prioritize all four security concerns equally. But while it must pay some attention to all four of them, Washington will inevitably focus on what it sees as the biggest threat or threats at any given moment.
He then cautions,
In dealing with multiple security challenges, American foreign policymakers will constantly have to think about how policies intended to deal with any one of them will strengthen or weaken the others. While they will understandably seek to reduce all of the security concerns that America faces, they will need to be wary that the seemingly easier task of undermining a lesser threat does not counterproductively strengthen a greater one.
The author lists the threats by their danger level as Russia, China, Iran and ISIS.
In considering his four, I would only argue that if Iran is amongst them, then we would have to add Saudi Arabia to the mix. My five would be
China, Russia, ISIS, Saudi Arabia, Iran.
The arguments over the prioritization is the fun part. The next step is developing a strategy for addressing each of these threats. That is the hard part.
.
Did I mention that OGF's Egyptian Princess girl friend would not live anywhere in the mid east ?
DeleteShe opts for the safety of the USA, and the dignity provided to women here.
When the Thought Experiment is finally published here, you will not be allowed to opt out by naming, say, Idaho, or Vegas, or, the gods forbid, Detroit.
I know I have been somewhat remiss, but I'm heavy into country/western once again....
But just you wait !
WSJ/NBC Poll
ReplyDeleteClinton 48 - Bush 40
Clinton 50 - Rubio 40
Clinton 51 - Walker 37
article
Bet the farm on it !!
DeleteMight as well. If you lose you won't pay up anyway.
Never let it be said, even whispered here, that Quirk can't make perfectly good sense when he puts his mind to it.
ReplyDeleteHis:
QuirkThu Jun 25, 12:40:00 PM EDT
above is ample evidence enough of this.
All too often however he's in a quagmire, mixing his Vodka drinks and puffing his Havana cigar, and dreaming of far away islands in the sea, palm trees, beautiful disrobed young ladies on the sand and in the surf, all yearning for his slow hand.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LpnL-RLJrc
"Migrants desperate for work are an embarrassing reproach to the EU
ReplyDeleteLONDON — Special to The Globe and Mail
Published Thursday, Jun. 25, 2015 11:19AM EDT
As if they didn’t have enough on their plates, the European leaders gathered at the Brussels summit are being asked to take on more financial liabilities. These are bigger commitments than an extra spoonful of Greek debt. Each leader will be expected to provide homes for tens of thousands of migrants, mainly Africans, who have arrived in Italy and Greece in leaky boats after a perilous journey across the Mediterranean.
The EU leaders cannot look away; images of the rescue by navy vessels off the Sicilian coast of the pathetic and forlorn appear nightly on TV. Over the past week, Britain has found itself on the front line as migrants at the Channel ports fight to gain access to U.K.-bound trucks. A hideous squatter camp in Calais, known as the jungle, has become home to thousands of illegal immigrants – Somalis, Eritreans, Sudanese, Nigerians, Syrians and Afghans – hoping to steal, bribe or bully a ride across the Channel. When interviewed, the migrants express an urgent desire to get to Britain, which they perceive to be an El Dorado of jobs, welfare and free housing.
It’s a myth, of course, although those who make it to the United Kingdom find work more easily than they would in the crisis-ridden, sclerotic and overregulated economies of southern Europe. Yet even if the migrants are mistaken, they are challenging some of the delusions of Brussels policy-makers. These would-be Europeans are just another unforeseen consequence of globalization and can hardly be blamed if they are prepared to move across continents to seek the comparative advantage of sheltering under a broken welfare umbrella, supported for the time being by an overvalued European currency.
..."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economic-insight/desperate-migrants-an-embarrassing-reproach-to-eu/article25108427/
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ReplyDeleteThough I have never ask for it, I have received a couple responses to an e-mail I sent to my congressional rep castigating the 'fast-track' authority just granted to Obama. In his responses he tried to put lipstick on a pick in describing the deal and pointing out the safeguards built into the deal by Congress.
My response was, effectively, Bull Titty!
I pointed out that Congress' abdication of responsibility on trade extends for the next 10 years and will also cover additional trade deals like TPIP.
The dystopia continues to grow.
.
.
DeleteI lost seven more brain cells last night.
s/b...lipstick on a pig...
and
the fast track authority covers the next 6 years not 10.
.
If it's a bad treaty Congress can vote it down.
Delete.
DeleteDo you really think that will happen?
The Obama administration has been negotiating these treaties for the last 6 years in secret. The GOP leadership is for it and they went to great lengths to get the 'fast track' legislation passed so as to preclude any amendment to correct objectionable language, including using procedural tricks and punishing rogue GOP reps who voted against it the first time around.
Likewise, the Dems put up a good fight try to stop Obama from steamrolling these deals through without amendment. However, now with only a yes or no vote to choose from and the GOP united behind it, how many Dems will choose to embarrass their president on a deal they can't win?
No, I will be very surprised if this doesn't pass even if it requires leasing out rooms in the West Wing to reps from Apple and BP
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Who Would Have Guessed That It Was The Lying Assed Cops That Did The Shooting And Killing As Waco Twin Peaks Biker Rally?
ReplyDeleteHmmm....well, around here, only Deuce is sufficiently disconnected from reality to have guessed such a thing.
Quirk knows better, I know better, WiO knows better, probably even Ash knows better but then one never knows about Ash.........only Rufus and Deuce are disconnected enough from reality to buy into such horse shit.
DeleteHeat is on here.
DeleteCasino is cool.
later
Cheers !
But first, Reason # 109 why Turkey should be out of NATO, and Israel, Kurdistan, and India should be in NATO -
DeleteTurkey Chooses ISIS Over the Kurds
24 June 2015
Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is furious that the Kurds in Syria are advancing against ISIS.
Ponder the ramifications of that sentence.
Turkey is a member of NATO. On paper, at least, it’s one of America’s greatest allies. ISIS, meanwhile, is the world’s most deranged army of psychopaths. Even Al Qaeda disowns it. The Kurds, though, are America’s most reliable allies in the Middle East alongside the Israelis.
So our nominal ally thinks it’s a problem when one of our real allies makes gains against the most vicious terrorist army on the planet.
We’ve been arguing amongst ourselves here in America about which is worse, the Syrian-Iranian-Hezbollah axis or ISIS. I can make a case either way. Iran is the world’s biggest state sponsor of terrorism, but ISIS is more barbaric than any of Iran’s proxies. ISIS is more likely to kill Americans in America, but it may not be possible to defeat them until after the Syrian-Iranian-Hezbollah axis is defanged because a substantial percentage of the Middle East’s Sunni Arabs see it as the only thing standing between them and Iranian overlordship.
There’s no obvious answer. We can have a healthy, reasonable, civil debate about how to proceed.
In Turkey, however, the conversation is different. The question over there is whether ISIS or the Kurds are the lesser of evils.
Twenty five percent of Turkey’s population is Kurdish, and Erdogan—like most of his ethnic Turkish countrymen—are terrified that Turkey may lose a huge swath of its territory if Syrian Kurdistan liberates itself alongside Iraqi Kurdistan. Turkish Kurdistan could very well be the next domino.
They are not crazy to fear this.
But they’re reacting by treating as ISIS the lesser of evils. If ISIS can keep the Kurds down, Turkey’s territorial integrity is more secure.
“ISIS commanders told us to fear nothing at all,” a former ISIS communications technician told Newsweek, “because there was full cooperation with the Turks and they reassured us that nothing will happen…ISIS saw the Turkish army as its ally especially when it came to attacking the Kurds in Syria. The Kurds were the common enemy for both ISIS and Turkey.”.......
http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/michael-j-totten/turkey-chooses-isis-over-kurds
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DeleteDon't include me in your bull.
There were enough people involved and enough witnesses that most of this will eventually be cleared up. If the police were in the right, it will eventually come out (and you can count on at least one biker being found guilty of something serious). If the police were in the wrong they should be sued (although even if they are some of the bikers are likely to be scapegoated). And it doesn't have to be an either/or outcome.
Wait for it to play out.
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DeleteAs for Turkey, they are definitely a piss-poor ally for sure but when YOU condemn them for favoring ISIS over the Kurds you betray your own hypocrisy.
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DeleteWhat the hell does that mean ?
What in the hell are you talking about ?
Sonbitch.
I don't support the ISIS, I was just pointing out how stupid our Generals R and ratass were being to think they could be gotten rid of so easily. Some generals we got at this bar.
I've argued for an independent Kurdistan all the way through.
Have you been drinking ?
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As for the biker melee, if these bikers were such peaceful fellows, why were they all armed up ?
At the Boy Scout jamborees I attended we weren't armed up, nor were we drinking nor doing drugs.
Some of you people are a laugh a minute.
How many hundreds of thousands of dollars did they pay Bristol Palin to give speeches about "abstinence?"
ReplyDeleteShe's pregnant. :)
DeleteDid her mama not tell her that birth control is free under Obamacare? :)
DeleteDaily Wrap-up:
ReplyDelete1. I didn’t think the Supreme Court would dare overturn Obamacare. They Didn’t. The Supreme Court myth is that it plays as an arbiter. It is a political animal as any other in Washington. Nothing new there.
2. Netanyahu threatening to attack Iran. Nothing new there.
3. Sarah Palin’s single daughter pregnant for the second time. Obviously, nothing new there.
4. Aipac, the unregistered foreign lobby, the Israeli US Congressional minder on all matters of interest to the Zionist State of Israel announces it will do its best to persuade (read intimidate) so called US lawmakers to challenge a U.S. president’s foreign policy. Nothing new there.
Foreign direct investment (FDI) in Israel dropped by almost 50% last year in comparison to the year before as the country continues to feel the effects of last summer's Gaza conflict, a new UN report has revealed.
ReplyDeleteThe report, published by the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD), shows that only €5.7bn was invested into the country in 2014 in comparison with €10.5bn in 2013, a decrease of €4.8bn, or 46%. Israel’s FDI in other countries also decreased by 15%, from €4.2bn in 2013 to €3.5bn last year.
Sweet
Israel has suspended talks with the US over defense aid to the Jewish State. The freeze will remain at least until nuclear negotiations between Iran and the P5+1 group have ended. It comes amid increased tensions between the White House and Tel Aviv.
ReplyDeleteThe decision was made following a meeting between senior representatives from Israel's Defense Ministry, Foreign Ministry, and Prime Minister's Office, Arutz Sheva reported.
The freeze will allow Israel to present a new request for defense resources after a deal with Iran has been finalized, according to a senior defense official who confirmed the report.
Oh dear, we may be getting our annual shakedown from our erstwhile ally and friend, The Jewish State of Israel.
Nothing new there.
The horror and threat of it all: We have to wait to negotiate how much money must be diverted from US domestic needs for alms to Israel. Maybe they will want less. Only joking. Nothing new there.
ReplyDeleteAnother shocking revelation - The fair City of Waco doesn’t want the video of the police shooting at Twin Peaks released
ReplyDeleteThe city of Waco is seeking to quash a subpoena issued to the former Waco Twin Peaks franchise holder for video of the May 17 shootout that left nine bikers dead and 20 wounded.
Dallas attorney Clint Broden, who represents Matthew Alan Clendennen, a member of the Scimitars Motorcycle Club, obtained a subpoena after speaking with Patrick Keating, a Dallas attorney who represents the Twin Peaks franchisee.
Broden said he sought the video to help him prepare for an Aug. 10 examining trial set in Clendennen’s case in McLennan County Justice of the Peace W.H. “Pete” Peterson’s court.
The subpoena for the video was issued on Monday. On Thursday, Assistant City Attorney Judith Benton filed a motion asking 54th State District Judge Matt Johnson to throw out the subpoena, saying that Broden was trying to “circumvent the criminal discovery rules by seeking records in a criminal case from a non-party.”
“It is troubling that the city of Waco would go to such lengths to suppress this video,” Broden said in a release Thursday. “The Waco police have repeatedly given the public contradictory information about the events at Twin Peaks and have said that the video will support its current version of the facts, yet they have now taken this extraordinary measure to interfere with the subpoena process.”
You would think the City of Waco would want the World to see the heroism of their police force in action, would you not?
DeleteAll should take their hats off to my friend Dale.
ReplyDeleteHe lead the way to the other world via Obama/VA Care.
A Pioneer was good old Dale.
He got no care at all, and in the end didn't care.
We need Quirk to answer this question:
ReplyDeleteWhy is a gang of bikers called a biker gang ?
It's discriminatory, I tell ya !
Quirk ??
A Gunfight, Not a Riot: What Happened in Waco
by Kevin D. Williamson May 19, 2015 12:00 PM @kevinNR
The shootout between members of rival outlaw motorcycle gangs in Waco has brought out a great deal of stupidity on the left — too much stupidity to catalogue, in fact. But let us look at a few lowlights. Making the comparison with Baltimore, many on the left — Salon’s Jenny Kutner, to take an example — demanded to know why the media did not describe the events in Waco as a “riot.” The answer, obviously enough, is that the event in Waco was not a riot — it did not represent a general state of civil disorder, there were no mobs targeting property for destruction, etc. What happened in Waco was accurately described — in the New York Times, the Waco Tribune, USA Today, and many other outlets — as a gunfight. Also chaos, biker gang shooting, the work of very dangerous, hostile criminal biker gangs, and, in case that is not strong enough for your taste, something akin to a war zone. What happened in Baltimore was not a gunfight. (It might have been a gunfight if it had been attempted in or around Waco.) Which is not to say that bikers are never involved in riots: The modern outlaw biker mythology is very much rooted in a riot in Hollister, Calif., known in the history books as — can you guess? — the “Hollister riot,” during which such forerunners of the modern motorcycle gang as the Pissed Off Bastards of Bloomington and the Market Street Commandos treated Hollister as though it were Baltimore. There is a great deal of mythology surrounding motorcycle gangs, but the (almost certainly apocryphal) story is that after the Hollister riot, a spokesman for American Motorcycle Association insisted that 99 percent of all motorcycle enthusiasts were decent, law-abiding people — hence the adopting of the “1%” iconography by the outlaws. RELATED: Why the Left Won’t Call Rioters ‘Thugs’? Others demanded to know why the hoodlums in Waco were not referred to as “thugs” — people on the left were very upset that President Obama, in a rare moment of clarity, described the Baltimore thugs as “thugs.” (((((((((Hunter S. Thompson repeatedly describes the Hells Angels as “thugs” — “stinking, hairy thugs,” “drunken motorcycle thugs,” etc. — in his famous book on the gang, but that was a long time ago.)))))))) Does the word “thug” have particular racial connotations in 2015? Maybe — somebody ask Tupac’s tattoo artist. Sally Kohn, exhibiting the fine discernment for which she is justly famous, demanded to know why a gang of bikers was referred to as a . . . biker gang.
Nobody in Waco gave any press conferences about the need to understand the legitimate rage of the poor white peckerwood dumbass class. “Oh, look,” came the predictably snarky chorus, “white-on-white crime!” Some of the outlaw motorcycle gangs are all-white (de facto or de jure) but the Bandidos, one of the main gangs involved in the Waco gunfight, is not one of them, unless we insist on the “white Hispanic” terminology invented for George Zimmerman. Mark Thompson, during a particularly dopey episode of his Make It Plain program on Sirius XM, demanded: “You ever heard of a black motorcycle gang?” Well, yes: One of the first outlaw gangs was the East Bay Dragons, who were tight with the Black Panthers back in the 1960s. (See Soul on Bikes for an exhaustive account of the black gangs roughly contemporary with the Hells Angels et al.) Thompson was on both sides of the issue, wondering why the law-enforcement response in Waco wasn’t stronger than it was — why no National Guard? — and then answered his own question with a conspiracy theory: White gangs (or white Hispanic gangs) serve no nefarious purpose, while black gangs are tolerated because they serve the “same purpose as the police: killing innocent black people.” That is, the fellow with a national broadcast on Sirius XM insists, part of the “genocide program” directed at black Americans. That is what passes for analysis on the left. (Full disclosure and all: I’ve served as a guest host on another Sirius XM station in the past.) ADVERTISING RELATED: No, Calling the Baltimore Rioters ‘Thugs’ Does Not Make You Racist ADVERTISEMENT Of course there is a good reason that the National Guard wasn’t called out in Waco: It wasn’t needed. The Waco police did not follow the lead of the Baltimore police; the mayor of Waco did not follow the lead of the mayor of Baltimore and declare an outlaw-biker free-fire zone. Instead, the police swooped in, arrested the better part of 200 people, started booking them, and peace was restored. And nobody in Waco gave any press conferences about the need to understand the legitimate rage of the poor white peckerwood dumbass class. RELATED: What Are Baltimore’s Rioters Trying to ‘Communicate’? Being a motorcycle enthusiast myself, I’ve come across a few of these guys over the years. Just as living the low life in eastern Kentucky is a great deal less glamorous than on Justified, actual outlaw bikers are a less charismatic lot than on Sons of Anarchy. (It’s almost as though television fiction were intended to entertain rather than to inform!) And they show up in the strangest places: During my newspaper days in Philadelphia, a local 1%er potentate living in a multimillion-dollar Main Line home kept us very much entertained with a plot (thankfully unsuccessful) to murder his wife with a harpoon gun, because don’t we all have harpoon guns lying around? Our friends on the left insist that law enforcement treats white people with kid gloves — if only there were some obvious counterexample from the Waco area. But the progressives are right, to some extent, that people romanticize motorcycle gangs, and that this is unhealthy. America’s most stridently progressive mayor, Bill de Blasio, ought to do something about that: The Hells Angels, the epitome of the 1% motorcycle gang, operates openly in New York City — their establishment is located at 77 East Third Street, and there’s a sign on the door, lest their presence be overlooked. (Weird thing: If you go to Google’s street view, there’s a gap in the blue line showing you where to drop your homunculus right in front of the Hells Angels’ clubhouse. Coincidence?) The people at Twin Peaks corporate are mortified that one of their franchises became a biker hangout — how much more mortified should the good people of the Lower East Side be? — Kevin D. Williamson is roving correspondent at National Review.
DeleteRead more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/418578/gunfight-not-riot-what-happened-waco-kevin-d-williamson
And nobody in Waco gave any press conferences about the need to understand the legitimate rage of the poor white peckerwood dumbass class.
DeleteThis is the very class to which I was summarily assigned by Miss T back in the day - the poor white peckerwood dumbass class.
:)
I have been proud of that designation ever since.
I think it fits Rufus much better, but I am proud of it anyway.
DeleteIt's far better than being an urban crazy ass from Philly or Detroit, that much is certain.
I'd bet my sweet little bippy (what is a bippy, I just heard that phrase somewhere) that if the walled Deuce Compound in Philly or the store front of Quirk's Advertising Agency on Mean Street in Detroit were surrounding by a gang of bikers, that is, a biker gang, the first thing these two urban sophisticates would do is CALL THE POLICE.
Delete.
ReplyDeleteWhy is a gang of bikers called a biker gang ?
Better watch it, Obumble, I understand they don't like to be called gangs. They prefer 'clubs'.
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ReplyDelete...the first thing these two urban sophisticates would do is CALL THE POLICE.
Why in the world would a bunch of bikers want to surround and attack either Deuce or me? It's not like we (I guess I shouldn't speak for Deuce) hang out in biker bars. Likewise, I have no plans to encroach on their territory when it comes to drugs or prostitution. And were I to encounter a 6'5', 280 pound biker wearing his colors it is highly unlikely I would be insulting him.
No, if anyone were going to get surrounded and attacked by bikers, I suspect it would probably be you for calling them a biker gang. They prefer the term 'biker club'.
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Likewise, I have no plans to encroach on their territory when it comes to drugs or prostitution.
DeleteWell, I am glad to hear this.......as long as you continue to just work your own territory between Mean Street and Quagmire Avenue in Detroit, you should be OK.
But wait, what are these biker "Clubs" doing in the drug and prostitution business in the first place ?
DeleteI know how you got into it, but I thought these "Clubs" just motored around the country looking at the scenery, stopping occasionally to do a good deed to some needy grandma.
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DeleteI know how you got into it, but I thought these "Clubs" just motored around the country looking at the scenery, stopping occasionally to do a good deed to some needy grandma..
Well, that's because you are an ill-informed English major from Hicksville, Idaho.
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These biker gangs have helped hundreds, nay, thousands, of grandmas out this way.
DeleteAlways helping them cross streets, cooking meals for them -the biker gangs famous Meals on Two Wheels Initiative - lawn mowing, home repair, medical marijuana, the list is endless.
I can't speak to the situation in Detroit.
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ReplyDeleteWhat in the hell are you talking about ?
I thought it would be obvious. I called you a hypocrite. You post an article critical of Turkey that says
So our nominal ally [Turkey] thinks it’s a problem when one of our real allies makes gains against the most vicious terrorist army on the planet.
And based on this, you say Turkey should be kicked out of NATO and replaced by Israel. You ignore the fact that the very same statement could be made of Israel.
Israel's previous ambassador said so, said that Israel given a choice would prefer ISIS before the Assad regime. The Israeli Druze who are well represented in the IDF are attacking IDF ambulances now for carrying wounded Syrian militants for treatment in Israeli hospitals. Their reason? They are doing it because those same militants are attacking the Druze in Syria. Both Turkey and Israel consider Assad a bigger treat to their countries than ISIS (to my mind a misjudgment). WiO (and I assume you) agree with that analysis.
The problem is the US, our country, is at war with ISIS. We are also at war with al-Queda, the al-Nusra Front, and other militant groups operating primarily in southern Syria. Israel and Turkey are both helping enemies f the US during a time of war. To my mind that makes them both piss poor allies. You see that in Turkey. You ignore it in Israel.
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If one is under attack by all manner of Shia and Sunna terror groups and regimes it does not seem illogical to me to prioritized the situation, and prefer one group over another as being more important and/or easier to deal with at a certain time.
ReplyDeleteWe did the very same thing in regards to German and Russia.
I thought you were accusing me of supporting ISIS, when all I've said is the current methods of trying to deal with ISIS are doomed to fail.
Now we hear talk of a new 'lily pad strategy' but this is also doomed to fail.
ISIS is not that big a group to deal with but we are using the wrong airplanes.
Instead of the fighter/bomber and drones we should be using the B-52s.
This of course brings howls of 'not fair', 'too brutal', etc......
I even opened the subject of sending US troops into Syria to separate the warring parties - this was two hundred thousand dead ago - but you objected vehemently.
You deal with it then.
And yes, if you were an Israeli it is entirely possible you too would prefer to deal with one group over another at a certain point in time.
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DeleteLord, you are dense.
You talk around the point. In the future, don't talk about kicking Turkey out of NATO in favor of Israel. They are both looking out for themselves even if that means they are acting against US interests. Two of a kind.
Reason #15 why the US should have nothing to do with the ME.
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DeleteThere is nothing there we need, no one there we need.
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DeleteAnd yes, if you were an Israeli it is entirely possible you too would prefer to deal with one group over another at a certain point in time.
But I am not in Israel. I have no plans of being in Israel. I am a US citizen. The only interests that concern me are those of the US.
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