Turkey accused of colluding with Isis to oppose Syrian Kurds and Assad following surprise release of 49 hostages
Mystery surrounds the surprise release of 49 Turkish diplomats and their families held captive for three months by Isis. The Turkish government is denying any deal with the hostage-takers, making it unclear why Isis, notorious for its cruelty and ruthlessness, should hand over its Turkish prisoners on Saturday without a quid pro quo.
Hailed in Ankara as a triumph for Turkey, the freeing of the diplomats seized when Mosul fell to Isis on 10 June raises fresh questions about the relationship between the Turkish government and Isis. The Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan says the release is the result of a covert operation by Turkish intelligence that must remain a secret.
He added on Sunday that “there are things we cannot talk about. To run the state is not like running a grocery store. We have to protect our sensitive issues; if you don’t there would be a price to pay.” Turkey denies that a ransom was paid or promises made to Isis.
The freeing of the hostages comes at the same moment as 70,000 Syrian Kurds have fled across the border into Turkey to escape an Isis offensive against the enclave of Kobani, also known as Ayn al-Arab, which has seen the capture of many villages.
The assault on Kobani is energising Kurds throughout the region with 3,000 fighters from the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) based in Iraq’s Qandil mountains reported to be crossing from Iraq into Syria and heading for Kobani.
The Turkish security forces closed the border for a period on Sunday after clashes between them and the refugees. They fired tear gas and water after stopping Kurds taking aid to Kobani according to one account, or because stones were thrown at them as they pushed back crowds of Kurdish onlookers, according to another. Most of those crossing are women, children and the elderly, with men of military age staying behind to fight.
Many Kurds are expressing bitterness towards the Turkish government, claiming that it is colluding with Isis to destroy the independent enclaves of the Syrian Kurds, who number 2.5 million, along the Turkish border. The pro-Kurdish Amed news agency asks “if Isis [is] the paramilitary wing of the of the neo-Ottomanism project of Turkey in the Middle East?” The Turkish government vehemently denies any collaboration with Isis.
Nevertheless, the strange circumstances of both the capture of the 49 Turks and their release shows that Ankara has a different and more intimate relationship with Isis than other countries. Pro-Isis Turkish websites say that the Turks were released on the direct orders of “the caliph” Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.
They had been moved to Raqqa, the Syrian headquarters of Isis from Mosul, and both men and women were well-dressed and appeared to have suffered little harm from their imprisonment. This is in sharp contrast to the treatment of Alan Henning, the British taxi driver seized when taking aid to Syria, and of the journalists who have been ritually murdered by Isis.
A number of factors do not quite add up: at the time the diplomats and their families were seized in June it was reported that they had asked Ankara if they could leave Mosul, but their request was refused. It was later reported by a pro-government newspaper that the Consul-General in Mosul, Ozturk Yilmaz, had been told by Ankara to leave, but had not done so. Former Turkish diplomats say that disobedience to his government’s instructions by a senior envoy on such a serious matter is inconceivable.
Critics of Mr Erdogan and his Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu say that since the first uprising against President Bashar al-Assad in 2011 they have made a series of misjudgements about developments in Syria and how Turkey should respond to them.
Having failed to persuade Bashar al-Assad to make changes, they assumed he would be overthrown by the rebels. They made little effort to distinguish jihadi rebels crossing the 560 mile long Syrian-Turkish border from the others. Some 12,000 foreign jihadis, many destined to become suicide bombers, entered Syria and Iraq from Turkey.
Only at the end of 2013, under pressure from the US, did Turkey begin to increase border security making it more difficult for foreign or Turkish jihadis to pass through, though it is still possible. A Kurdish news agency reports that three Isis members, two from Belgium and one from France, were detained by the Syrian Kurdish militia at the weekend as they crossed into Syria from Turkey.
The hostages had no idea they were going to be freed until they got a telephone call from Mr Davutoglu. While treated better than other hostages, they were still put under pressure, being forced to watch videos of other captives being beheaded “to break their morale” according to Mr Yilmaz. He said that Isis did not torture people though it threatened to do so: “The only thing they do is to kill them.”
The Turkish government may not be collaborating with Isis at this moment, but Isis has benefited from Turkey’s tolerant attitude towards the jihadi movements. As with other anti-Assad governments, Ankara has claimed that there is a difference between the “moderate” rebels of the Free Syrian Army and the al-Qaeda-type movements that does not really exist on the ground inside Syria.
‘The Jihadis Return: Isis and the New Sunni Uprising’ by Patrick Cockburn, published by OR Books, is available at orbooks.com
It is always a safe bet to assume the worst when it involves Turkey.
ReplyDelete.
ReplyDeleteFrom Meet The Press
TODD: But is that what the Free Syrian Army wants to do? I thought the Free Syrian Army was trying to fight Assad, that they've been fighting side by side in some cases with ISIS. Do they know that's why we're training them?
POWER: They do. But, may I add, the training also will service these troops in the same struggle that they've been in since the beginning of this conflict against the Assad regime. Let me note, the Free Syrian Army and other moderate forces have been fighting ISIL since December. They have pushed ISIL out of strategic areas. The reason that they've lost -- the moderate opposition -- have lost territory over time is that they have been fighting ISIL and taking the fight to ISIL on the one hand and then also fighting a regime that is backed by Hezbollah, Iran, Russia, etc. So, we think with an infusion of support, these fighters, who have actually held their own against this wide array of actors fighting on all fronts, will be in a much stronger position, both to go after ISIL and to put pressure on the regime so we can get back to the negotiating table for a political solution.
I will only point out that to date the US is the only country talking about air attacks in Syria. So far neither the UN nor any of our allies have signed on to the attacks. And some countries, Russia included, have warned against them.
.
.
ReplyDeleteROBERT GATES: I think that destroying ISIS is a very ambitious mission. I think our goal actually ought to be, first, to just set ourselves the objective of pushing ISIS back out of Iraq, getting them out of there, denying them a place where they can have a permanent foothold, if you will, where they might be able to carry out plotting against the United States. And we also have to keep in mind there are other groups out there that are threatening us as well. Al-Nusra, al-Qaeda's still with us. So, there are multiple terrorist groups. I think destroying -- we've been at war with al-Qaeda for 13 years. We haven't destroyed it yet. We've changed it. We've certainly degraded it in the Afghan-Pakistani area, but all you have to do is look around the world, particularly in Africa and the Middle East to see that it's still around. So, I think destroying probably is ambitious, at least in the foreseeable future. But it is a realistic objective to try and push them out of Iraq and deny them a permanent foothold someplace.
.
Yep.
Delete.
ReplyDeleteGeorge Carville
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/09/21/carville_does_any_sane_person_think_were_not_going_to_be_bombing_muslims_13_years_from_now.html
STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, to -- to quote Reinhold Niebuhr, "Is there a grace in doing nothing here?"
(LAUGHTER)
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Ouch.
Look, 13 years ago this October, we started bombing Muslims in the Middle East.
VANDEN HEUVEL: Um-hmm.
CARVILLE: We're still bombing them.
Does any sane person think that 13 years from now, we're not going to still be bombing them?
Of course we are. And if you listen to what Secretary Gates said, we're -- and maybe we have to be. Maybe there is no alternative to -- other than bombing people, but we're getting in the middle of four -- count them -- four civil wars here.
And our Congress is too cowardly to pass a resolution. We're brave enough to send Air Force fighters in to -- that -- that may get shot down. I think this thing needs to be --
.
ISIS is just Sunni Iraq.
ReplyDeleteMiss T, Bob, and Joe Biden had it right.
Let it fall into three parts.
We support the Kurds.
I have asked J to escort me to Mumbai.
I am awaiting a reply.
I think she will say 'yes'.
J - I did not get the photo.
DeleteI am wondering if you will escort me to Mubai when my Niece gets married,
as I am certain now she is going to do?
I don't see how I can get there and back by myself, and you know airlines.
Thanks, bob
It is better, let one admit, than sitting on one's ass in Detroit, or hunting pheasants.
I thought you had a wife?
DeleteDa ho is a fraud, Ash.
DeleteHe has no sign-on. No access to the legitimate account.
She doesn't like to fly, Ash.
DeleteYou sure put crapper down the other day.
That was fun reading.
Thanks.
Islamic State (Isis) has called on insurgents in Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula to press ahead with attacks against the country’s security forces and continue beheadings – an announcement likely to deepen concerns over ties between the militant groups.
ReplyDelete“Rig the roads with explosives for them. Attack their bases. Raid their homes. Cut off their heads. Do not let them feel secure,” Isis spokesman Abu Muhammad al-Adnani said in a statement released online on Monday.
On Sunday, Egyptian militant group Ajnad Misr – or Soldiers of Egypt – claimed responsibility for a bomb blast in a busy downtown Cairo street near the foreign ministry that killed two senior police officers and wounded several other officers.
Ajnad Misr, which has claimed responsibility for previous attacks on police, said in a statement posted on its Twitter account and on a militant website that it had used an explosive device on “officers of the criminal apparatus” as part of its campaign against security forces.
It said the attacks would not stop until “the ruling tyrants fall and God’s sharia is established”.
Similar attacks have intensified since the overthrow of Egypt’s Islamist president, Mohammed Morsi, more than a year ago.
This thing of ours is getting very close to being a WWIII. The last thing we need is that irresponsible creep Netanyahu starting fires that he is incapable of putting out.
ReplyDeleteThe US needs allies where it can find them, allies that can help obtain a common objective. The objective of Netanyahu is more destabilization. On this blog we regularly see the true face of those that cheer on the wars and violence between various factions of Islam. There can be no more obvious indication of the detrimental affect that Israel has on US foreign policy. I defy anyone to show where Israel has had a positive impact on stated US goals of achieving stability in the ME:
Last Friday, 43 veteran and reserve members of Israel's secretive spy organization, Unit 8200, claimed they'd been directed to spy on Palestinians for coercion purposes.
The group signed an open letter of protest to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and to the head of the Israeli army, accusing the spy agency of targeting innocent Palestinians and collecting data for political purposes, not national security.
Dubbed the "refusniks," the veterans declared that they had a "moral duty" to no longer "take part in the state's actions against Palestinians."
The source of much of the Israeli data may be the U.S. National Security Agency.
Author and journalist James Bamford interviewed NSA leaker Edward Snowden in Moscow this summer. Bamford tells NPR's Arun Rath that Snowden was eager to discuss documents that show a U.S. agreement to routinely share information with Israel and Unit 8200.
The information includes the content and metadata of phone calls and emails from Palestinian-Americans living in the U.S., in an agreement reached in 2009, according to The Guardian.
The agreement calls for the material to be "raw" or unredacted, meaning names and personal information have not been taken out — "which is extremely unusual," Bamford says. "They don't even do that with their closest partners, like the British."
It's not clear if information from the NSA was used in the operations the 43 veterans are blowing the whistle on, but Unit 8200 veterans say Israeli spies search intelligence for sexual orientation, infidelity and other indiscretions that could be used against Palestinians living in the Mideast.
Unit 8200 is "using that to blackmail, basically, to coerce innocent Palestinians into working for Israel," Bamford says. According to the veterans' letter, "A lot of it was simply being used for political reasons. It was given to politicians for their individual use. They felt that they were involved in political operations as opposed to defense operations."
Israeli backlash against the 43 veterans has been sharp. The defense minister has called their actions "criminal," and The Guardian reports Netanyahu accused them of "baseless slander" which "should be condemned."
Two hundred other members of Unit 8200 signed a counter-letter defending the agency.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteIsrael starting fires?? Fuck, the US blindly stumbling in flinging bombs to and fro is starting plenty of bad ass fires.
DeleteTurkey, and Israel for that matter, exist in the region and thus have skin in the game
Both Israel and Turkey work for US, Ash.
DeleteThey are what is referred to as 'proxies'.
Both cash the checks Uncle Sam writes.
If either was not acting in accordance with US wishes, why, Uncle Sam would quit writing the checks.
Delete“Sometimes you can see things happen right in front of your eyes and still jump to the wrong conclusions.”
― Jodi Picoult
Often happens with rat, Jodi.
DeleteThe number of Syrian refugees who have fled to Turkey in the past four days escaping the advancing militants from the Islamic State group now totals approximately 130,000, Turkey’s deputy prime minister Numan Kurtulmus said Monday.
ReplyDeleteKurtulmus warned that the number could rise further but insisted that Turkey was ready to react to, “the worst case scenario”.
Syrian Kurds were leaving the area around Ain al-Arab, or Kobane, as the town is known in Kurdish, which is under attack by IS forces.
Until now, Kobane, the third biggest Kurdish population centre in Syria, had been relatively safe and had taken in 200,000 people displaced from elsewhere in Syria.
Since Tuesday night, jihadist fighters have been advancing toward the town, hoping to seize it to secure their control over a large swath of Syria's border with Turkey. The group has moved quickly, seizing at least 60 villages around the town.
The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based monitoring group, said 18 Islamist fighters were killed in clashes overnight.
On Saturday, the Observatory said 300 Kurdish fighters had entered Syria from Turkey to reinforce the Syrian Kurdish People's Protection Units (YPG) that are fighting the militants.
"The IS (Islamic State group) came to our village and threatened everyone. They bombed our village and destroyed all the houses. They beheaded those who chose to stay,” said Mohammed Isa, 43, who left his hometown with his family of seven.
France 24
Obviously, if the US cannot coordinate with Assad to attack ISIS, the US has no 'real' interest in attacking ISIS.
ReplyDeleteWe are being played, in a Kabuki theatrical performance of global proportions.
“One of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror. ”
― George W. Bush
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' apparent shift to inviting international pressure on Israel, rather than relying solely on so far unsuccessful U.S. mediation, is poised to strain ties with Washington.
ReplyDeleteAbbas adviser Nabil Abu Rdeneh said the Palestinian leader would present a new strategy in a speech to the U.N. General Assembly on Friday. Abbas is expected would ask the U.N. Security Council to issue a binding resolution, with a specific date for ending Israel's occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and east Jerusalem.
Captured by Israel in 1967, the territories were recognized by the U.N. General Assembly in 2012 as making up a state of Palestine. In the event of a likely U.S. veto at the Security Council, Abbas would seek membership in dozens of international institutions and agencies, including the International Criminal Court.
Abbas is to meet with U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry on Tuesday. The U.S. has urged Abbas not to turn to the Security Council, but has not offered an alternative, said a Palestinian official, speaking on condition of anonymity.
AP reports, for the first time in history, China has docked a Navy Destroyer in the Southern Iranian port of Bandar-Abbas – right across the Straits of Hormuz from US stronghold of Bahrain and UAE.
ReplyDeleteWhy not? They gotta have "liberty," too.
DeleteWhat a surprise.
ReplyDeleteFirst rat says we are being played.
ReplyDeleteThen he says we are calling all the shots by passing out checks.
rat is crazy as hell
Farmer RobMon Sep 22, 06:41:00 AM EDT
DeleteIf either was not acting in accordance with US wishes, why, Uncle Sam would quit writing the checks.
Farmer RobMon Sep 22, 06:36:00 AM EDT
We are being played, in a Kabuki theatrical performance of global proportions.
....................
rat is lulu.
.
DeleteIsrael prefers al-Qeada, which is ISIS, in Syria.
DeleteIsrael’s Ambassador to the United States Michael Oren told the Jerusalem Post that Israel so wanted Assad out and his Iranian backers weakened, that Israel would accept al-Qaeda operatives taking power in Syria.
“We always wanted Bashar Assad to go, we always preferred the bad guys who weren’t backed by Iran to the bad guys who were backed by Iran.”
Even if the other “bad guys” were affiliated with al-Qaeda.
“We understand that they are pretty bad guys,” Oren said in the interview.
http://www.jpost.com/Syria-Crisis/Oren-Jerusalem-has-wanted-Assad-ousted-since-the-outbreak-of-the-Syrian-civil-war-326328
The people of the US are being played, by the Zionists in the US government, Obama, Biden, etc.
DeleteThey are being played by the Saudi and the Israeli, the Allies in Abraham.
The Israeli and the Turks are doing what the US government wants them to do, not what the people of the US want done.
That there is a disconnect between the desires of the people and the government, clear.
Jobs exported overseas, tax breaks for multinational corporations ... 85 wars of choice.
That da ho Bob believes that Barack Obama personifies the United States of America, shows just how low da ho has fallen
Deletedig dig dig
Deleteshovel shovel shovel
I don't have the courage to read this........
ReplyDeleteLOIS LERNER: 'I didn't do anything wrong'...
Says she's not worse than Jeffrey Dahmer........................drudge
That da ho Bob believes that Barack Obama personifies the United States of America, shows just how low da ho Bob has fallen
DeleteNow it is He da ho Bob that is telling US that Mr Obama is a "Truth Teller", and a paragon of virtue and honesty.
DeleteAll so he can disagree with "The Rat".
A character that does not post, often.
Where has Bob said that Obama is a paragon of virtue?
DeleteWhy should Bob disagree with rat?
rat disagrees with himself.
rat is lulu
Simply put, Whore, your new found icon, Ash, posted a missive that put desert rat on the record, in 2005, stating that the US should support the locals that share its interests. Not become directly involved in the conflicts.
DeleteThen Ash tells the reader that because the US did so much more than desert rat had advocated for, that doing less would not have been more productive. That doing the opposite of what was being called for, somehow invalidates the concept of doing what was advised.
Now, da Whore wants to tell US that the people of the United States are not being played, by Mr Obama and his cohort. That Mr Obama is telling the people of the US the truth. That ISIS is a global threat to the US, under the AUMF of 14SEP 2001.
He da ho Bob tells us that the continued subsidies the US government supplies to Israel and Turkey does not make those two countries US proxies. That the US sends them the money, supplies the Turks with nuclear weapons, without any strings attached.
Shovel, Shovel, He da ho Bob is burying himself.
You are stut stut stuttering, lulu.
ReplyDeleteThat's because you are on my corner, you ho.
DeleteYou are in Phoenix, lulurat.
DeleteI am a little south of Coeur D' Alene. Prostitution is illegal in Idaho and I obey the law.
And, I am happy to be a couple thousand miles away from you.
I do wish we could get some of your rain.
We have had a long dry spell.
The farmers need it to get the crops up and growing.
Ron Paul: Israel created HAMAS
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteISIS™ Drives Texas-made Toyota Trucks Apparently Modified for U.S. Special Forces
This you have to see to believe: the now iconic white Toyota trucks we see ISIS™ driving around look scarily familiar to ones purchased here in the states and outfitted by special forces which puts to rest the notion that ISIS™ simply ran up to a dealership in Iraq and made off with 30 or so vehicles.
They aren’t even SOLD in Iraq and certainly not with these modifications. At least not as an entire fleet.
...
When you combine this latest discovery with the fact that “ISIS” has 1. U.S. military small arms 2. U.S. military Humvees 3. U.S. military artillery 4. U.S. citizens running their online social media campaigns 5. John McCain met with destabilization campaign terrorists in Syria including someone from the newly formed “ISIS” in March of 2013… what conclusion would a reasonable person come to?
1. U.S. military small arms
Delete2. U.S. military Humvees
3. U.S. military artillery
4. U.S. citizens running their online social media campaigns
5. John McCain met with destabilization campaign terrorists in Syria including someone from the newly formed “ISIS” in March of 2013… what conclusion would a reasonable person come to?
In September of 2013 the Israeli Ambassador to the US told the world that Israel prefers al-Qeada
DeleteStart connecting the dots.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteMore fiction
DeleteBAGHDAD (Reuters) - Australia's defense minister David Johnston said on Monday during a visit to Baghdad that his country's fighter jets will play a part in U.S.-led air strikes on Islamic State positions in Iraq.
ReplyDeleteJohnston told reporters that up to eight Super Hornet aircraft will participate in a U.S.-led coalition "delivering air strikes to . . . . .
Australia: "We're In
What I've said about Obama is that I think he is the worst President of my life time.
ReplyDeleteI would happily vote for Ben Carson. Or Colonel West.
There are many white possibilities too.
I wish Sarah would run but I don't think she is going to do so.
Hillary is just a white female Obama, Obama a black male Hillary.
The same political cookie cutter created them both.
One man's opinion.
You need some writing and spelling lessons, George.
ReplyDeleteThe opinion of da ho is worth what we paid for it, nothing.
ReplyDeleteThat is your opinion, Jackrat.
DeleteNo one has paid a thing for your opinion(s) either.
Your opinions flip flop back and forth so often no one would know what they are buying, except the hate all the Jews deal.
And most of us are not really into that.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteProvide a reference of any post that expresses "hate all Jews"
DeleteYou cannot do it, because it does not and never did exist.
Now, it is true that I have a low esteem of Israelis, but they cannot be conflated with Jews, or Judaism.
DeleteTo do so, just another piece of Zionist propaganda.
My GOD !
ReplyDeleteChelsea is preggers !!!!
And looks it too........
See Drudge for pics of Chelsea, our 'Royalty'.
She will give birth soon, a sacred event, or, as Jackrat said upon a time "drop the kid".
I have received an affirmative reply from my old girl friend in Vegas about being my guide to Mumbai if the wedding occurs, as I am nearly certain it will. She (OGF) was a stewardess for years and knows how to get around.
ReplyDeleteIt will be in some months I think.
I want to meet the father of my Niece.
He speaks no English but we have chatted a bit through my Niece.
I must tell you all these things so as to counter the slander of Rufus who said I was into it for the nookie and Niece for the money.
The opinion expressed by Rufus says nothing about my Niece or I but a lot about Rufus.
I was thinking of calling upon Q to get me there and back but then I thought my OGF so much prettier.......
Real life is so much more fun than sitting in Phoenix obsessing about Jews.
Bob,
Exciting! I hope the fellow is really special as she most certainly deserves. I will
resend the photo separately. Give me further descriptions please.
J :)
Delusional
Delete:)
DeleteWrong o.
She is a lovely young person, and you have zero life.
And you don't know Christian theology, Jewish theology, nor Hindu theology from your truly stupid half cracker ass. Nor a damn thing about mythology, which puts it all into perspective.
Delete.
DeleteI fear what this will do to US/India relations which aren't the best as it is.
.
The relations between the USofA and India may not be the best 'at the top' but everybody everywhere likes a great wedding.
DeleteBesides, if I am going broke on this, I might as well go ahead and ask you if I may hire you as my 'Ambassador'.
You can 'rub the the thumb and the last three fingers' better than anyone I know.
And, you take ivory in exchange.
.
DeleteI was recently expelled from and banned from returning to India and I suspect they will be looking for me. Since I am also persona non grata in all of the surrounding countries it might be difficult getting in and the risk/reward just isn't there.
.
This is just a simple dilemma.
DeleteI remember when you got into Chile back in the day of the General. You can easily handle it.
There will be a free airline ticket and a Vandal T-Shirt in it for you. All you are doing now is rubbing your fingers, thinking Bob will put me up at the Mumbai Hilton if I press him............with gift cards too.......
.
DeleteIdaho Vandal T-Shirt?
or
Idaho Vandals Nike Sideline Half Zip Knit Jacket – Black?
.
From Quirk's Robert Gates quote:
ReplyDelete"...where they might be able to carry out plotting against the United States."
It may be obvious to many, but it is worth noting that they wouldn't be plotting against the United States if the US kept its nose and boots out of the ME.
Correct, Ash.
DeleteIf FDR had stayed out, if McDonalds had stayed away, if the Seven Sisters had not encamped.
If Ike had not sponsored a coup in Iran ...
Lots of actions that the US cannot take back.
So, let's not talk about "What Could Have Been", let's discuss "What Is".
When you want to join in that conversation, it'll be of interest.
.
Delete'That was then, this is now.'
The rat offers up the 'this time it is different' argument.
.
Specifically, with IS, if we weren't bombing them now then they'd probably not be plotting against US.
DeleteEven if they are plotting against US they have little chance of success outside of executing a terrorist operation which our flinging of bombs and such has little chance of thwarting anyway. War has been declared but the hope of winning anything without a full scale occupation of the place (of dubious value in itself) is a pipe dream unless one were to ally with Assad's Syria and Iran which doesn't appear to be an option on the table.
Can anyone see a clusterfuck on the horizon?
.
DeleteI can only say one thing, Ash.
Buck up.
.
Good point.
ReplyDeleteThat is wrong, Ash.
ReplyDeleteYou have not yet comprehended the heart of Moslem 'philosophy'
Believe me, I wish you were right.
But, you are wrong.
Let us all sing together now:
Allah Uber Alles.
This is the point that our Host Deuce seems unable to comprehend.
It is really very simple.
Read their literature.
You are wrong, Ash.
Read the history of Spain, and France, and Austria, and southern Russia.......China.........INDIA......I N D I A.......100 millions dead.........
DeleteYou live in a dream world, Ash.
Your heart is in the right place though.
.
DeleteObumble quote from Musings from the Dark Side of Toyland, an autobiographical retrospective.
.
I was at Battle of Lepanto with Cervantes when you were still with your wet nurse.
DeleteI think sooner or later it is going to come to nukes.
ReplyDeleteAnd over what?
It is not the United States that is the aggressor here.
It is and always has been the muzz.
And our current crop of 'leaders' seems to think .......a little more diplomacy.......
I have been alive for too long to buy into that any longer.
There are some sane ones.......the Egyptian military.
.
DeleteIt is not the United States that is the aggressor here.
You have to laugh lest you cry.
.
Did we blow our own trade center buildings down?
DeleteHas not our money purchased peace between Israel and Egypt for the last many decades?
Have we not kept the sea lanes open so you can drink and drive about Detroit?
No, yes, and yes.
If you believe that "it" started at the WTC, you should swim to the wedding.
DeleteGod Bless The Egyptian Military.
ReplyDeleteI think they have formed.........friendships, think of it !!!!.....with many in the IDF.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteOf course,You Whore Bob, as the Times of Israel reported, al-Sisi may well be a Jew.
DeleteHis uncle, a Haganah member.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/el-sissis-uncle-the-haganah-member/
Beyond that, if those reports are not true ...
Both al-Sisi and his counterparts in the IDF, they all are alumni of the US Army War College.
It was the Egyptian Army that allowed the Muslim Brotherhood to take charge in Egypt, not Obama, and it was the Egyptian Army that deposed the Muslim Brotherhood, not Obama.
All the while, though, the US continued to fund the production of M1 Abrams tanks by General Dynamics in Cairo.
Mr Obama was the stage manager, the Egyptian Army the producer of the show.
Wake up, You da ho Bob, connect the dots, fool
Obama gets his stupid ass up there and first speech starts talking about...............the Arab Spring !!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI D I O C Y
ISIS = Hamas = al-Qaeda = Hezbollah = The Arab Spring
DeleteI'd rather attend a wedding in Mumbai.
Get yourself some water wings and start swimming.
Delete"It" started 1400 years ago.
DeleteThat is what Deuce, Ash, Rufus, even, alas, Quirk cannot understand.
I exclude you on the basis of your obvious mental disability.
If you read middle age northern European literature of the romantic variety you will see many references to Moslem mis-treatment of our 'better halves'.
DeleteIt is one of the basic glories of our outlook and our basic way of life.......our outlook on and treatment of women.
I was mentioning this to my Niece in one of our phones calls some days ago, how we farmers out here always speak of our wives as 'our better half'.
She immediately shined to this description.
"That is the way it should be", she said.
:)
Bob,
ReplyDeleteA week or so ago you mentioned a book "The Storms Below" or something. What book was it? Who was the author?
I think that may have been "After The Storm" by Ernest Hemingway.
DeleteIt is a very short story, completely bleak.
I think it has all the elements of being the monomyth upside down.
My Niece is interested in Hemingway, and she comes from the monomyth.
I have been wanting to write here about it or post my thoughts here.
I will try to do so.
I have been drinking a little too much of late to properly assemble my thoughts.............
And I dread the thought of Q's coming in with criticisms......
One of these days......
Yeah, and when the Muslims weren't invading Europe, the Christians were invading the Levant. And, it don't matter a whit.
ReplyDeleteFF>> to, today.
It's been decided that the headcutters cannot be trusted in charge of the oil fields, so, well, . . . . . . . . . . .
To allow the head cutters and clit clippers to be in charge of much of anything seems counter intuitive to me......
DeleteYour intuition does not matter.
DeleteYou are a nonentity.
Muslims are not.
You are a slim bucket and a bowler.
DeleteO well, I think basically the movement in the story from the bar to nature is the movement of our Hero from life in everyday 'reality' to that over there in the realm of 'supernatural wonder'. Exactly ass backwards. There are a good number of images and metaphors that I can mention to back up my thesis.
ReplyDeleteIn the end of Hemingway's short story there is no breakthrough of consciousness to a higher level at all....................
We are left with "Only the birds got more out of it than I did."
This is misery.
Which, according to the monomyth, is a total mis understanding of reality.
It is not that, it is not that at all.............
I do want to put my ideas together in a better way but I am on second bottle of wine now.
It is Deucian, it is Rufusian, it is Quartian.......it is despair.....but very well written.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry - it's the NYT and hence can't be true...
ReplyDelete"Despite Airstrikes, ISIS Appears to Hold Its Ground in Iraq
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICKSEPT. 22, 2014
BAGHDAD — After six weeks of American airstrikes, the Iraqi government’s forces have scarcely budged Sunni extremists of the Islamic State from their hold on more than a quarter of the country, in part because many critical Sunni tribes remain on the sidelines.
Although the airstrikes appear to have stopped the extremists’ march toward Baghdad, the Islamic State is still dealing humiliating blows to the Iraq government forces. On Monday, the government acknowledged that it had lost control of the small town of Sichar and lost contact with several hundred of its soldiers who had been besieged for nearly a week at a camp north of the Islamic State stronghold of Falluja, in Anbar Province.
By midday, there were reports that hundreds of soldiers had been killed in battle or mass executions. Ali Bedairi, a lawmaker from the governing alliance, said more than 300 soldiers had died after the loss of the base, Camp Saqlawiya. The prime minister ordered the arrest of the responsible officers, although a military spokesman put the death toll at just 40 and said 68 were missing.
...
The foundation of the Obama administration’s plan to defeat the Islamic State, also known as ISIS, is the installation of a new prime minister, Haider al-Abadi, who has pledged to build a more responsive government and rebuild Sunni support. But, though at least some Sunni Arabs are fighting alongside the army in places like Haditha, influential Sunni sheikhs who helped lead the Awakening say they remain unconvinced.
“The Sunnis in Anbar and other provinces are facing oppression and discrimination by the government,” said Mohamed el-Bajjari, a tribal sheikh in Anbar who is a spokesman for a coalition of tribes. “This government must be changed to form a technocratic government of nonsectarian secular people, or the battles and the anger of the Sunni people will continue.”
..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/23/world/middleeast/isis-iraq-airstrikes.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LedeSum&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
It is the timeline that is the crux of the issue, not the tactical realities, Ash.
DeleteWhat difference does it make, to US, when the Iraqi government is ready to move?
Before the battle begins, there has to be a technocratic government of nonsectarian secular people.
The US and the Sunni are waiting for that, before major offensive operations begin.
The US General said as much.
The US entered WWII in December of 1941, Europe/Italy was not invaded until September of 1943.
Japan/Okinawa not invaded until March of 1945.
Six weeks after December 7 1941, the US was not ready to go on offense, anywhere.
It was nine months, before the US took any offensive land action, at all, in the Pacific at Guadalcanal.
DeleteThat campaign took from August of '42 until February of '43.
Against the Germans - the US lost the first engagements in Africa against the German/Italians, in February of 1943, over a year after entering the war.
What timeline to combat readiness would you suggest the Iraqi should be judged upon, why should it be faster than the US needed in WWII?
Lets look at the US and the first Gulf War, how long did it take for US to react, on the ground?
ReplyDeleteTimeline of the major events of the United States' involvement in the United Nations' action to liberate the nation of Kuwait from occupying Iraqi forces.
Aug 2, 1990 - Hostilities begin.
Aug 22 President George Bush authorizes first call-up of Selected Reservists to active duty
Jan 17, 1991 Operation Desert Storm and air war phase begins at 3 a.m.
Five and one half months for the most efficient military in the world to engage the enemy on the ground...
Six weeks after the invasion ...
Sept - A group of approximately 16 Department of Defense civilians from Anniston Army Depot established the first large-scale, in-theater painting operation at the port of Ad Dammam
...
Sept - A team from the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research arrives in the Gulf to begin the first of several efforts to discuss with soldiers issues such as stress and psychological status
Now let's look at Gulf War II...
ReplyDeleteSeptember 12, 2002 - U.S. President George W. Bush, addresses the U.N. and challenges its members to confront the "grave and gathering danger" of Iraq or stand aside as the United States and likeminded nations act.
March 20, 2003: The United States begins the Invasion of Iraq;
Six months, not six weeks.
And the US has a large well trained combat effective force, the Iraqi government has to build that.
DeleteIt could easily be six months before the Iraqi are 'ready'.
Be patient, grasshopper.
Perhaps diplomacy can be effective, doubt it, but maybe it can. The Iraqi should at least attempt it, before major combat operations begin.
There is no denying that in the few cases where the US supplied close air support to the Iraqi forces, it was very effective.
DeleteThe dam in Mosul is back in government hands, 40,000 refugees were 'saved' and upwards of a dozen villages have already 'liberated' from the ISIS, in Iraq.
The campaign is already ahead of any realistic schedule formulated in a news room in NYCity.
... upwards of a dozen villages have already been 'liberated' from the ISIS, in Iraq.
DeleteI'm thinking there's something fishy about that Sichar story.
DeleteIt sounds like one of those deals where the "commander" cut a deal, and sent the troops home.
Jack HawkinsMon Sep 22, 05:49:00 PM EDT
ReplyDeleteIt is the timeline that is the crux of the issue, not the tactical realities, Ash.
The bar's "tactician" was blabbing about the importance of 'tactical realities' just yesterday.
Today they don't mean shit.
The other day our "tactician" said time was no problem at all.
DeleteAll the time in the world, he said.
Our "tactician" is full of shit.
Look it up.
desert rat can't even get his story straight.
ReplyDeleteThe story remains the ame, it was stated that the campaign against ISISwould take months, perhaps years.
DeleteIf you disagree, YOU look it up and provide the reference, Whore.
Let's look further, to the US Civil War ... perhaps a more analogous conflict to the ISIS campaign in Iraq.
ReplyDeleteDecember 20, 1860 - Secession of South Carolina The Conflict Begins
January 5, 1861 - Capture of Fort Morgan
January 12, 1861 - Selma Depot Mobilizes for War
January 28, 1861 - Capture of Fort Macomb
February 1, 1861 - Confederate Capital Established in Montgomery, Alabama Six Weeks after the War began and no offensive action from the United States against the rebel forces.
April 15, 1861 - President Lincoln Issues Proclamation of War Four months into the conflict
April 16, 1861 - Fort Washita Abandoned by Union
May 13, 1861 - Baltimore Occupied by Union Troops Five months after the start of the conflict, the United States makes its first offensive move against the rebels.
June 3, 1861 - Battle of Philippi
The Battle of Philippi was a relatively bloodless affair in which a small Confederate force was routed at the Town of Philippi.
Six weeks into the conflict, the United States of America was a shambles.
http://www.nps.gov/civilwar/customcf/timeline.html
desert rat is the Commander in Private of The Tactical Division of Strategic Forces USA Arizona Militia Division whose plan is to March on Washington, D.C. and reinstate the Constitution.
ReplyDeleteHe needs to be institutionalized.
Delete.
DeleteYou're right, Anonymous, Bob does need help.
DeleteHas for a while, now
Jack HawkinsMon Sep 22, 05:49:00 PM EDT
ReplyDeleteIt is the timeline that is the crux of the issue, not the tactical realities, Ash.
Exactly correct, thanks for posting the affirmation
DeleteAsh's article made a point of saying where and when US air support was provided, the Iraqi goverment forces prevailed.
DeleteBut that after SIX WEEKS, there had not been many engagements.
Which is the historical norm for such things, as has been illustrated
desert rat is a real dumbfucker.
ReplyDelete.
Deletedesert rat just cuts and pastes since he hasn't had an original thought since 5th grade
DeleteRat's right. We'll engage when we're ready to engage (when the Iraqis get it together.)
ReplyDeleteSeems simple enough.
"The prime minister ordered the arrest of the responsible officers, although a military spokesman put the death toll at just 40 and said 68 were missing."
DeleteThat's the same response Maliki had when the General cut the deal up in Mosul.
Looks as if you are 'projecting', Anoni.
ReplyDeleteYou will never find a quote from anyone here at the Elephant Bar calling for action against the Federal government...
except by He da ho Bob.
He seems to want us not laugh.
ReplyDeleteBetter just make plans to stay in Bombay, Bob.
ReplyDeleteBeats Phoenix.
DeleteAnd your insane asylum.
Time is of the essence.
ReplyDeleteTime is not of the essence.
General desert rat o rooter
har har har what bullshit
Not even General Rufus would come up with such crap.
ReplyDeleteAt least we can all sign in, Bob.
ReplyDeleteUnlike you, we have mental faculties that are not impaired by Alzheimers.
A very lame reply.
ReplyDeleteI am on a new computer.
I will work on it tomorrow.
You are a joke !
You need a soft bed, a white light, soothing music, and new underclothes.
And handcuffs.
You always have an excuse for you lack of capabilities.
DeleteThe sign-on is not dependent upon the computer, You ho.
Your brain is malfunctioning, and you do not even know.
So entertaining. Maybe you should go blog with "O"rdure, he won't notice.
A total failure.
ReplyDeleteWhich is, exactly, what I have always said.
Let me know when he loses 4,500 American troops in Iraq, and Crashes the World Economy.
ReplyDeleteBob is always posting opinions, and fiction.
ReplyDeleteHe has an aversion to facts and reality.
Rufus,
ReplyDeleteI would have thought that given your desire to see alternative energies such as ethanol to flourish you would be against the oil wars that keep oil cheaply flowing. Instead you are an active advocate justifying war with the desire for cheap oil.
"Cheap?" oil
DeleteWe have to "transition," Ash.
We will have to replace oil (I mean, literally, we have to; its a finite substance,) eventually,
but crashing the entire world economy into Depression by having close to 40% of the world's oil supply disappear almost overnight isn't a good strategy.
Blah blah blah
DeleteRufus, the CEO of Standard Oil.
Blah blah blah
T R A N S I T I O N
DeleteRemember that word, Ash.
It is the first word in Ruf's dictionary.
I'd be building nuclear power stations myself, but I ain't in charge.
We have Mr. Obozo and the Democrats in charge, and the Greenies................
And Rufus.
DeleteShut the fuck up bob!
DeleteThere us no incentive to 'transition' when oil is kept artificially cheap. Nor only does the US taxpayer subsidize the world.price of oil through these wars it is unethical to kill to pad our lard ass lifestyle. We kill and subjugate many simply for he easy life afforded by cheap oil. You should be ashamed to so enthusiastically advocate such behavior!
Bush did not crash the world economy.
ReplyDeleteHe didn't even crash the US economy.
The economy crashed because the Democrats kept lending money to bankrupts.
Bush WARNED ABOUT THIS IN EACH OF HIS STATE OF THE UNION SPEECHES.
You were just sound asleep at the time.
As for Iraq it was passed by THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS.
I was neither really for it or agin it.
It was passed by Congress.
God, please wake Rufus up.........................or put him out of our misery.
And YOU Rufus were not exactly against the Iraq adventure at one time.
Your Obozo fucked it all up.
Now it seems we may be going back in...................
You're deranged.
ReplyDeleteIt's all the fault of George Bush, Ash.
ReplyDeleteThough he's been out of office for six years, was never in Congress.......................
Rufus is just an old Grumpus.
He has no solutions at all........
(he does put up an interesting article once in a while)
It's his 'thang'
Whatever happened to that pipeline down from Canada?
ReplyDeleteLast I heard President Obozo had nixed it................
Jobs? Energy?
Who needs it?
We have dessert in the Rose Garden at 7:30 EST.
We're gonna have photos for the 'optics' too.
DeleteThem 'optics' is important.
This is all part of my presentation of 'Obama as a paragon of virtue'..........
ReplyDeleteAs our desert crapper said......
I can't recall saying one good thing about Obama other than taking the wolves off The Endangered Species List.
ReplyDeleteBut according to crapper I have hailed him as 'a paragon of virtue'.
I actually think he is a criminal, and so is Hillary.
Monstrous Air Strikes on Syria, happening now.
ReplyDeleteAt least one other country involved. Fighters, bombers, and Tomahawks.
Someone's gonna have a headache.
DeleteObama is a repugnant human being.
ReplyDeleteHe voted to kill children that survive abortions.
He is the exact opposite of 'a paragon of virtue'.
You support his policies, must be why you da ho Bob.
DeleteThe "End Game" of Obama's policies, in Egypt, you support.
DeleteIn Iraq, you support his policies ...
You are pro-Obama in everything but name.
You are right there with Obama in support of Israel.
DeleteYou are so conflicted, must be part of the Alzheimers
Riding in the Obama/Biden posse on Kurdistan.
DeleteYou are a supporter and do not know it, your ignorance is that substantial.
You should broaden you information sources from just Faux News and the American Stinker
"I can confirm that U.S. military and partner nation forces are undertaking military action against ISIL terrorists in Syria using a mix of fighter, bomber and Tomahawk Land Attack Missiles," said Rear Adm. John Kirby, the Pentagon press secretary. "Given that these operations are ongoing, we are not in a position to provide additional details at this time."
ReplyDeleteThe attack, carried out by warplanes dropping bombs and ships firing cruise missiles, hit about 20 IS targets, including headquarters buildings for the militants who have based their movement in Syria, according to a senior Defense Department official who was not authorized to speak publicly about the attack.
The strikes in Syria were not invited by the government of Bashar Assad who is waging a brutal civil war against opponents of his regime, including IS militants. It's unclear how Assad will react to the U.S-led attacks. His military possesses sophisticated anti-aircraft missiles, although most of them are near the capital of Damascus and near the border with Israel.
About two thirds of the estimated 30,000 IS fighters are based in Syria. The remainder have captured large parts of northern Iraq, although their momentum has been blunted there by U.S. fighter, bomber and drone aircraft. Last week, French warplanes launched attacks on IS targets in Iraq for the first time.
For the last several weeks, U.S. spy planes have been flying over Syria collecting intelligence on potential IS targets.
There have been 190 U.S. airstrikes on IS targets in Iraq since bombing there started in August, according to statistics from U.S. Central Command, which coordinates military activity in the region.
The goal of IS fighters is to dominate a vast stretch of territory from Iraq to the Mediterranean. Last month, they swept through northern Iraq, capturing Mosul, the country's second-largest city after Baghdad, and threatening the semi-autonomous Kurdish region. Kurdish forces and Iraqi commandos, backed by U.S. airpower, halted the advance of IS fighters and ejected them from control of two key dams near Mosul and Haditha. They also helped prevent the slaughter of religious refugees
Rolling back IS gains and ultimately destroying the organization, Pentagon and White House officials say, will require competent, local military forces fighting on behalf of representative governments. The formation of a new government in Iraq, rejecting the sectarian rule of Nouri al Maliki, has been hailed by the administration as a step in that direction. U.S. airpower alone cannot eliminate the threat from IS fighters, officials say.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/09/22/syria/16005277/
Go onto next thread.
ReplyDelete"You Americans may someday long for the day when Saddam was still in power."
ReplyDeleteQuote from an Israeli General whose name I can't recall.